Dr Stan Humphries, Zillow's Chief Economist, has a great post over on ZillowBlog which I'll republish below. It dissects a very important issue that you all face every day in your business: how to talk about what's happening in the real estate market.

Unfortunately, the most commonly cited measures of the state of the real estate market are median sale price data from NAR or a local MLS, and the the S&P Case-Shiller Index. In the past, we've discussed differences between the Zillow Home Value Index and Case-Shiller.  And we've been particularly vocal about why median sale price is a terrible measure of what's happening to real estate values.

I cringe everytime I see a headline citing "home price declines" when they mean "median sale price" declines. A subtle, but very important distinction. Take for instance this recent Bloomberg News headline: "California Home Prices Decline 41% on Foreclosures". The article cites California Association of Realtors data: "The median price for an existing, single-family detached home in California sank to $247,590 in February from $418,260 a year earlier." Sigh. The true change in the value of all homes -- not just those that sold in the period  -- is represented by the Zillow Home Value Index. Our most recent data on home values says that the ZHVI declined 21% year-over-year in Los Angeles and 17% in San Francisco, for example. Why such a big discrepancy between the ZHVI and median sale price as reported by CAR? Simple: the CAR data is being weighed down by the fact that a larger percentage of the homes that are now selling are low end, particularly at foreclosure. This drags down median sale price data in a way that the Zillow Home Value Index does not.

 

Bottom line: methodological flaws in the median sale price and the Case-Shiller Index make them appear overly negative, which is bad for all of us.

 

Without further ado, here are Stan's thoughts on the topic:


The latest Case-Shiller numbers for the month of January were released a couple days ago, and they showed a year-over-year decline of almost 19% in the composite index of 20 markets. That’s a whopper of a decline. Could the real estate market really be that bad? Well, as it turns out, it really depends on what you consider to be the “market.” According to Standard & Poor’s, the Case-Shiller Index is “designed to measure increases or decreases in the market value of residential real estate.” It’s important to note, however, that “market value” according to Case-Shiller includes all arms-length sales of homes, even those of foreclosed homes. It’s really an indicator of the change in prices of homes regardless of the circumstances under which they are sold. What won’t surprise many people, however, is that there’s actually a very large difference in prices between foreclosure and non-foreclosure homes. For example, Figure 1 below shows the difference between the median sale price of foreclosure and non-foreclosure homes in the San Francisco Bay Area. As you can see, these are two very distinct markets. The median price of foreclosures in December 2008 was 47% that of non-foreclosure homes (this ratio reach its zenith of between 75% to 90% during the height of the market between 2003 and 2006). And in December, foreclosure transactions represented 60% of all real estate transactions recorded in the San Francisco metro region, meaning that any measure that includes both types of transactions is significantly influenced by foreclosure transactions.

 

 

A measure of real estate appreciation built using non-foreclosure transactions (like the Zillow Home Value Index) is essentially looking at the change in the value of homes making up the black line in Figure 1. By including foreclosure transactions in such a measure (as Case-Shiller does), you’re also looking at the depreciation of homes that were previously in the set of homes making up the black line, but went into foreclosure, thus becoming part of the set of homes making up the red line. Understandably, price depreciation is quite high for these homes given that they move from one (higher) market to another (lower) market rather than simply moving within the same market. Note that even indexes based entirely on non-foreclosure transactions are influenced by foreclosure transactions to the degree that foreclosure sale prices influence non-foreclosure sale prices. They just don’t consider foreclosure sale prices directly. To get some sense of the difference that including foreclosures can make on a measure of appreciation, we compare in Table 1 the Case-Shiller Index to the Zillow Home Value Index (ZHVI) since the latter does not include foreclosure sales in its calculation (note that the inclusion of foreclosure sales does not account for all the differences between the two indexes). The Case-Shiller numbers are uniformly lower than the ZHVI, particularly in areas with either high rates of foreclosures or in areas where there is a large difference between the median prices of foreclosures and non-foreclosures (indicated by a lower ratio of foreclosure to non-foreclosure prices).

 

Unfortunately, in combining both foreclosures and non-foreclosures into a single metric, you’re not really getting a good insight into either market. In the current climate, you’re underestimating the decline in value of foreclosed homes and overestimating the decline in value of non-foreclosure homes. More importantly, from a consumer perspective, homeowners probably infer that home price indexes are a general indication of the real estate appreciation that they might realize if they were to sell their own home. In interpreting appreciation information from this perspective, it is likely that homeowners assume implicitly that they would sell their home on the open market, not have it foreclosed upon. For homeowners thinking in this way, Case-Shiller is not a good measure for them to use because the assumptions used to interpret the data do not match the assumptions used to create the data. So, when you think of your “market,” if you think about what has happened to the price that your home might fetch on the open market (and you don’t intend to foreclose), things aren’t as bad as the Case-Shiller Index would lead you to believe. It’s closer to what the Zillow Home Value Index indicates for your area (available right down to your ZIP Code).

 

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26 Comments on Case-Shiller: Is it Really THAT Bad?

APR
02
4 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Sing it to the rooftops and get the word out. Publish the difference in as many places as possible. As you say, the difference is in how the numbers are used and for which types of homes- foreclosed or non foreclosed.

1:30pm • #1
570,020 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Does it have to be all bold? 

But, Spencer.  While I love getting down and fighting in the mud, you are right on with this post.  I can see from looking at my own data that prices aren't dropping as fast as the reporters say it is.. lower priced homes are selling more than higher priced homes.  People that would have bought a $500,000 home a couple of years ago are buying $350,000 homes now... and it isn't the same home.

1:40pm • #2
387,679 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Spencer:  The thing that really grates on me is that when this Case-Shiller nonsense is blared by the talking heads on Cable, TV and radio, they talk about the price drops as being "wide-spread."  Still... after all of this nonsense... they refuse to even utter the phrase "all real estate is local."  I am in Dallas/Fort Worth... and according to Case-Shiller, the drop is 4.3 %... and according to Zillow it is 1.2%.  I would even argue both of those figures in many of the "mini-markets" in DFW.  Just plane scare tactics.  I get so tired of this... but, every month, nothing changes. Thanks for a great post.  Take care...

1:58pm • #3

IT SELLS--YOU CAN BELIEVE ALL  YOU READ AND HEAR....THANKS! GREAT POST.

2:00pm • #4
344,595 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I am with Lane - our numbers are similar: lower priced homes are selling more (and in many cases well) but higher priced homes are not. ~Rita

2:15pm • #5
150,998 Points 9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Without a doubt, it's the low end that's selling and that does skew statistics. Thanks for the great post.

2:24pm • #6
137,097 Points 13 Featured Posts

I agree that it depends on what you consider the market. We have around 7% of our market in short sale/foreclosure.  It is not a large chunk of our market so it does not have a huge impact.

I think other parts of the country that have 80% of homes in foreclosure, the foreclosure market IS the market. 

I don't think you can pull them apart like your economist tries to do.  I don't know all of individual cities on CS, but I would guess that those that had large price drops have a larger volume of foreclosures which means that the foreclosures do indeed become part of the "normal" real estate market.

 

2:28pm • #7
177,177 Points 13 Featured Posts

I'm not sure if I agree with this number crunching.

Ultimately a person wants to know the true value of their home either to refinance it or to sell it.  In either case, they will need an appraiser and that appraiser will need to use comparable properties to determine value that a bank will provide a new loan on.  If that value reflects foreclosures then so be it - that is the market value.

A home is only worth what the market will bear; this is the equivalent of mark to market, which now in Washington's wisdom, has decided to get rid of.

2:39pm • #8
Outside Blog

The differences between foreclosed homes and non-distressed homes is so important. But if the media does not have bad news, what can they talk about?

Not sure about ever using numbers from Zillow to make a point though. I prefer to use my own local statistics from both the MLS and public tax records. Zillow is not a source I would consider for factgs and figures. Just a personal opinion.

3:27pm • #9
120,229 Points

Spencer: Thanks for breaking this out. I agree with you. The numbers together lead us to believe things are pretty bad out there. The problems still exist though. Bloated inventory, declining home values and tighter credit all signal we have a ways to go. Again, thanks for the post!

4:06pm • #10
1 Featured Post

I am with Mark on this one. "A home is only worth what the market will bear". 

Bettina

4:09pm • #11

Spencer,

Great post!  tyring to continously explain the statistical limitations in the Case Schiller index drives me nuts.  It's only when people are actually trying to buy a house does the realty sink in, at least here in the Denver market around the $250k range.  At that price point its multiple bids and days on the market for the right properties.

4:14pm • #12
584,660 Points 80 Featured Posts Outside Blog

The Atlanta numbers are much further off than you post.  Case Schiller is quoting older data and shows basically a +/- 14% drop which on first glance is not as bad as the rest of the numbers they quote...and the most recent numbers posted by our Atlanta FMLS show a 21.7% drop in the average sales price.  Atlanta real estate statistics.  So it is sort of like the old accountant joke..."How much is 2+2?"  "How much do you want it to be?"

5:15pm • #13
375,457 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

One thing about Real Estate.. It is LOCAL.. not every area in the country hit hard times.... Some other areas hit really hard

5:49pm • #14
144,216 Points 4 Featured Posts

Question, why should I believe your numbers in this post over any other? No national organization, your included, have the time, money, and personal to really make numbers that are somewhat correct on a "all real estate is local basis". If I were you I would also find it hard to be unbiased and I wouldn't expect it any other way. That being said, I think it is a good idea to publish both. What I would add to that is that I would segment into a sub-market, specify price, determine what the statistics are supposed to prove, and have a more accurate idea of a market condition on a more micro scale than either graph. FYI, I am getting a Diverse Solutions IDX solution, and it has an option for Zillow. Not sure whether to have it or not.  

6:29pm • #15
177,177 Points 13 Featured Posts

Interesting responses.

I am seeing a contradiction in home value perceptions.  I continue to read blogs from agents that say sellers need to be more realistic in terms of list price if they expect to sell their home in this market, I agree with this.  You have to "mark the price to market."

But then on the other hand, there is a chorus of agents saying that home values have not fallen as much as Case-Shiller or other agencies are reporting.

I think these perceptions are contradictory to one another.  Just my two cents.

8:03pm • #16
204,300 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Good analysis.  It's always good to understand where the numbers are coming from.

When foreclosures are a small part of the market, then I would consider it a separate market that needs to be separated from the "normal" market.  But when there are enough nice looking foreclosures to choose from and the prices are lower than normal homes, then normal buyers just begin to shop the lower priced foreclosures and this then becomes the normal market.

One thing that I don't think is considered in the numbers is  the change in condition in many of the foreclosure homes.  Is it fair to compare the value of a vandalized home to the value it had when someone was caring for and maintaining the home?  How much of the decrease in value of a foreclosure home is due to destruction and improper maintainance? 

8:15pm • #17
115,959 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Is the real estate market only 20 cities, I don't think so. I have never liked Shiller or his report.

9:15pm • #18
Outside Blog Hit Router

There is always a positive way to spin numbers.  You simply have to understand what the numbers mean!  Unfortunately most do not.

9:40pm • #19
2 Featured Posts

This negative press also gives all buyers the false impression that every single home on the market, foreclosure or not, should be a steal.  It makes it hard to convince buyers to setlle on a fair price when the news tells tham that prices are so low.

10:08pm • #20
246,511 Points 2 Featured Posts Hit Router

In general, I agree with you.  At the most local level of the Zillow Zestimate, this is so far off the market the overwhelming majority of time, I'm not aware of one local agent who puts any faith in what comes out of Zillow.  Perhaps your bigger picture estimates are better, I've never evaluated, but it seems to make sense on the surface.

10:12pm • #21
23 Featured Posts

Thank you all for your great comments.

 

Chris Olsen - yes, although Zestimates aren't accurate all the time on individual houses, the Zillow Home Value Index is actually very accurate. That's because the ZHVI is the median Zestimate in the geography, and our Zestimates are neither systematically high nor low. So for every Zestimate that's too low, there's another one that's too high.

 

Michael Russell -- you're right, the fact that CS is only in 20 markets is yet another shortcoming of Case-Shiller. Zillow reports the Zillow Home Value Index in over 160 cities and thousands of neighborhoods, yet another reason why the ZHVI is a more useful measure than Case-Shiller.

 

 

11:18pm • #22
APR
03
4 Featured Posts

Now I know why so many buyers only focus on Foreclosures????? According to your theory of a seperate market... this market is valued/priced lower and buyers should not even look at the other.

Or are we trying to make home sellers feel better?

Hmmm....

Of course... I think it's safe to say that all things being considered such as price and condition... Buyers (and their agents) would certainly prefer to deal with a real live seller then a bank....

12:07am • #23
276,280 Points 29 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I have always been a bit troubled about the Case-Shiller numbers.  For a long time they painted a rosy picture for Charlotte when in fact our market was dropping significantly.  Whether up or down, their model tends not to conicide with our actual local market data.  It may be good for big picture trends but not regional or local.

7:44am • #24

Great post and information. I was talking about this with my team just last week. Numbers can be positioned a hundred different ways to tell the same amount of conclusions from the "data".

8:14am • #25

Another great resource that paints a more accurate picture is the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) website - http://www.ofheo.gov/hpi_state.aspx.  The numbers they use are not only concentrated in the 20 major metro areas like Case-Shiller, they are nationwide.  Another key difference is they take into account appraisals for refinances rather than only looking at purchases.  And since most mortgage transactions right now are refinance transactions vs. purchase and a large portion of those purchase transactions are short sales or foreclosures I think the OFHEO is a way more accurate resource for what is actually going on with home values.

8:51am • #26

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Spencer Rascoff

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