fha loans and fha mortgages

 

Important Point to remember -

Never assume that conventional mortgages are cheaper than FHA mortgages if you are putting 20% down, just because you have no mortgage insurance.

I just received a referral from Katerina Gasset the other day who wants all buyers to be approved on her bank owned properties by someone that she trusts, even if that borrower is going to use their choice of lender. The borrower must have told me that she wanted the best rate 3 times. This was up most on her mind and I don't think she heard anything else that I stated. Well, I received an e-mail today from Katerina, from the realtor that has the buyers, telling us that they went with her first choice. This is someone that the borrower trusts and who is friends with on a certain level apparently. Her credit scores are above 700, yet her husbands credit scores are around 634 and 637. Here is the sad pathetic part when speaking to the borrower. I asked her if the loan officer had her husband's credit scores and she said no, she only told him hers. OUCH - rut row !!!!  First off, no loan officer shouldn't be quoting interest rates without at least knowing the borrowers credit scores, all borrowers involved.

 

 

FHA loans have been the main source of financing in the last 6 months. What I hate hearing is that they have taken the spot of the subprime loans. This is not true by any part of the imagination. This statement is from those that are inexperienced in both the mortgage and the real estate industries. The realization has been that 30% of the subprime mortgages in the last 5 years previous to the last 2 years should have been FHA mortgages, not subprime. And that is a hard core fact.

 

To compound this, so many said just because you had a conventional loan, you had the better loan. This was not always true when putting 3.5 percent down. In most cases, you were told this, because that particular lender was not FHA approved. Now?  Even with 10% down and credit scores less than 680, FHA loans in many cases, will be the best mortgage for you. But here is the kicker, in this scenario that I am about to share with you, even with 20% down, the FHA loan is cheaper for you, even in the short term. And because of today's rates and market conditions, paying points might be better than ever before.

 

 

So you could argue the fact that this is just my opinion, that FHA mortgages in many cases would be better for you. True, even though I have over 16 years of experience as a loan officer in the mortgage industry. But numbers don't lie. Let me show you.....

The example below is based on a $460,000 purchase price with 20% down. One reason why conventional rates are a little higher and cost more pooints in this scenario as in FHA rates is because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have added penalties per se. If you are putting down less than 30% and your credit score is less than 720, certain fee penalties would apply to you, which would increase your rate.  The FICO (credit score) that I am going to use is 637 and I will still show in this example that FHA loans are cheaper, even with 20% down.  

 

***And keep in mind, some lenders have penalties on FHA mortgages with credit scores under 620. And many lenders can't do FHA loans under 620. I can still do them down to 600.***

 

Type of Mortgage

Conventional Loan

FHA Loan

Purchase Price

$460,000

$460,000

Mortgage Amount w/ 20% down

$368,000

$374,440 w/MIP

Interest Rate with points

5.50% & 3.625 points

4.50% & 1.794 points

Principal & Interest Payments

$2,089.46

$1,897.23

Mortgage Insurance

N/A – Zero $

$153.33

Total Mortgage Payment w/ P&I and mortgage insurance

$2,089.46

$2,050.56

Monthly Savings

 

$38.44

Disclaimer :  These rates are examples, but the spread shown in the example is real. To compare this scenario apples to apples, it couldn't be done because of the large pricing hit on the credit scores for conventional loans. In this scenario, there are no lender fees, just points. The conventional rate and points also includes the penalty for the 637 credit score, which is 3 points.

 

Some of you might be saying that you will be adding $6,440.00 onto your principal balance if you did the FHA mortgage because of the FHA one-time mortgage insurance premium. This is correct and I don't want to confuse you with more numbers and charts. But here is a quick breakdown. Here is a break down of the costs for the both scenarios.

 

Costs of the mortgage

Conventional Loan

FHA Loan

Mortgage Amount w/ 20% down

$368,000

$374,440 w/MIP

 Points for the rate & penalty

0.625 + 3.0 = 3.625 points

1.794 points

Cost in dollars for the points

$13,340.00

$6,653.00

Difference in costs

$6,687.00 more than FHA

 

Upfront MIP added to loan

N/A

$6,440.00

Monthly Savings on Mtg payment

 

$38.44

New Mtg payment – MIP paid in cash

$2,089.46

$2,017.93

Monthly savings with No MIP financed

 

$71.53

 

As you can see, there are a few different ways to look at this. To compare apples to apples on the upfront mortgage insurance, let's pay it off in cash, using the same monies that you were using to buy the conventional rate. As you can see you still save $237 out of pocket on the FHA loan and now $71.53 a month, even with mortgage insurance.

My advice?  Don't pay the UPMIP, because you will still have a lower mortgage payment and keep in mind, you also have a tax write off on the higher loan amount. One more important fact that even many loan officers don't know. The monthly mortgage insurance on the FHA loan will fall off in 5 years. When this happens, your savings is now increased to $191.77 a month.

 

Lastly, here is one more comparison to show what happens to your principal on the FHA loan scenario compared to the conventional scenario.

 

Principal Balance

Conventional Loan

FHA Loan

Mortgage Amount w/ 20% down

$368,000

$374,440 w/MIP

 Remaining Principal after 3 years

$252,273.59

$255,473.11

Remaining Principal after 5 years

$340,255.24

$341,336.83

Remaining Principal after 7 years

$326,842.79

$325,861.41

As you can see here, it would take about 6 1/2 years to recoup the upfront mortgage insurance if you included it on the new mortgage. But don't forget that you put $6,687.00 in your pocket because the FHA loan was cheaper in points.

 

If you ever have any questions about FHA loans and comparisons, please don't hesitate to call me or e-mail me.  jbelonger@ihmci.com

 

 

 

 

 

follow Jeff Belonger on Twitter

 

 

- FHA Loans - USDA Loans - VA Loans -

- Energy Efficient Mortgages - 

- Conventional Loans - 203 k loans -

- Mortgages -

 

Experience & Knowledge at its BEST !!!

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________

For more information on FHA loans, please go to this link. The FHA Expert

For more information about the 2009 Tax Credit for First Time Homebuyers : 2009 Tax Credit

For important mortgage insight to watch for, please read : Consumers need to be aware of these Red Flags !!!!

Copyright © 2009 by Jeff Belonger

 
This post has been included in New Jersey Information Gloucester County, NJ Information Blackwood, NJ Information
Post is included in group: The FHA Mortgage Group
Post is included in group: Realtors Needing the services of the Lending Powers
Post is included in group: RealtorsĀ®
Post is included in group: Mortgages
Post is included in group: All About Mortgages/Mortgage Networking

26 Comments on FHA Loans vs Conventional Loans - A Rude Reality Check - A Comparison with 20% down

APR
03
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

If a loan expert speaks and nobody listens, why did they call them in the first place?

3:36pm • #1
264,678 Points 59 Featured Posts Outside Blog

@ Drew - To hopefully hear something more "ideal", not necessarily real, than they heard before.

Jeff - With conventional rate hits these days, you really do have to run the numbers and not just assume that 20% and avoiding MIP is always the cheapest route to take.  I understand consumers who want to "best rate", "cheapest deal", etc... but that narrow focus may just cost them more down the road.

I use the story of my Homeowner's Insurance Agent.  I was referred to him via a friend and when I bought my house, his quote was higher than both of the others I sought out.  In the end, I went with him none the less.  Know what?  If I need something, I hear back from him right away.  The service is impecable.  While that story doesn't seem relevant to this post, it is an important consideration when shopping for anything.

 

3:51pm • #2
600,611 Points 111 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Yeah...I think it's all part of the biz. Even with us...I have a cousin who insists she's the expert and quotes the market to our family ....right in front of me. Wow.

One thing is for certain....when you have info such as this in front of them....black and white...it educates the consumer...you should put all these in an ebook to educate buyers :)

3:53pm • #3
480,022 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

 

DREW.... . I would agree on that statement. But what's worse is when the other person who might just be average, even screws up something very easy. This is a great example...  quoting a rate that they will be way off on, just because of the credit scores.

JASON.... .  even a few years ago, I would never assume anything... even 5 years ago, when we didn't have that many pricing hits. I always did comparisons. But the very good loan officer that understands these changes will adapt to them and explain them in a very easy manor that most will understand. And it's easier when you see the numbers.  And yes, I remember your insurance story. I think you even did a blog on it..

 

SALLY..... .  it definitely is part of this business and in the real estate business. In regads to your cousin that does this right in front of family, with you there, just doesn't have common sense.

Yes, I agree, when numbers like this are in black & white, it does educate the borrower... and it's easier to understand. In regards to the e-book thing.  I am thinking about that and writing a book.  thanks

 

5:04pm • #4
3 Featured Posts

Jeff, thanks for the side by side breakdown, and reminding us that the FHA drops the MIP after 5 years. So many people still insist that the MIP is permanent with FHA, but it just isn't so.

6:04pm • #5
693,937 Points 72 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff, both agents and loan officers in these parts are going through the FHA learning curve.  With the higher limits, there are actually properties one can buy with this program.  Your posts are a help!

6:15pm • #6
202,532 Points 19 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jeff,

Katrina has a good sense of people.

Show me the numbers! Each and every time!!!

Bill

6:56pm • #7
480,022 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

 

MICHAEL.... . I have talked to several loan officers that didn't know that the monthly mortgage insurance falls off in 5 years if you have 20% or more down.  I love doing these kinds of comparisons because numbers don't lie.

PATRICIA..... . FHA learning curve or not, this was about a loan officer quoting a conventional deal without showing a major pricing hit.  And the borrower thinks that they are getting a great deal. Doing it on purpose or not, they will be shocked when it changes... and I figure that this will happen at the end, not now. Thanks for the polite compliment.

WILLIAM.... . yes she does....  and yes, show me the numbers. The numbers don't lie unless someone uses the wrong numbers or fudges the numbers. thanks

 

9:51pm • #8
311,907 Points 31 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hey Jeff,

Great stuff as usual!

10:03pm • #9
457,000 Points 28 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff, This is still so confusing to so many people.  I think Sally's idea to write a book is wonderful and believe it would help a lot of people understand this better.

10:32pm • #10
APR
04
212,418 Points 39 Featured Posts Outside Blog

It appears the loan officer the buyer is talking to, friend or not, has little or no experience or knowledge - probably just an order taker/application filler and not a true mortgage industry expert. Fannie LLPA matrix clearly defines the Loan Level Pricing Adjustments you have alluded to and at 80% with a 630'ish middle score the Fannie mandatory pricing adjustment is 3% and some investor overlays take that to 3.125% or higher.

You already know this but some of your readers may not - the LOWEST middle score of all borrowers on the application must be used as the qualifying score. It doesn't matter what the highest middle score is only the lowest (worst case scenario ALWAYS with mortgage underwriting) may be used. There are so many eBooks and paper books and blog posts about mortgages one more won't hurt or help. Mandatory education instead of mandatory regulation would be the answer to ignorance.

10:08am • #11
212,418 Points 39 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I should clarify my statement about the other loan officer being an "order taker". There are order takers in the industry and they are neither required nor expected to know the rules and guidelines as can be found in the Fannie Mae Seller's Guide or the FHA Handbook and that's why borrower's are misled at times. It is not always bait and switch, sometimes it is simply ignorance. The end result, however, is the same and it damages the borrower and the reputation of the mortgage industry.

10:11am • #12
126,005 Points

Jeff: Thanks for the comparison. I appreciate it! There you go with the points thing again! Just kidding. You and Brian must be in cahoots! Take care.

11:12am • #13
480,022 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

 

GREG.... . thank you very much for the polite compliment.

CAROLE.... . it really shouldn't be that confusing, not if a loan officer can do a quick scenario as I did. It took me about 20 minutes to put all of this together.  The problem is that many loan officers either assume such things as 20% down no matter what is better or that they just don't know how to compare. I know this for a fact because I have heard loan officers in meetings blurt out that 20% is a no brainer and here is a great example that it's not.  The book thing?  Let me just fit that into my very easy, lots of time, schedule.... lol

 

KEN.... .  experience or not, it's lack of knowledge. In all honesty, knowing how to read credit and knowing how to read a rate sheet should be the two most important things when it comes to giving a good faith estimate.

In regards to the credit scores, we all already know this. It really ticks me off that any loan officer can't even read a rate sheet correctly. I guess they have no pride in what they do... it's sad, but if you can't read a rate sheet correctly, how can you be expected to do the rest of your job then?

 

KEN's other Brother..... . thanks for explaining this. I am actually working on a blog post about mortgage planners vs loan officers.  thanks

PAUL..... .  Paul, I know you might have been teasing, but you need to look at the comparison and what it would be costing you.  You have a 3 pt hit and you will still be charged at least 5/8 of a point even if you took the rate to 6.5% on a conventional 30 yr fixed rate.  But now you will be 2% higher than you could with a FHA loan. SO you still would have points no matter what. If you did a zero point loan on the conventional scenario, that loan officer would not make any money. And keep in mind, I said this loan was priced out with NO lender fees at all. How much do you charge in lender fees?  That could be paid in points instead, which allows for the buyer to write those costs off. In any case, thanks for stopping by.

 

12:23pm • #14
235,057 Points 27 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Jeff - Wow, this is a great illustration and shows the importance of running the numbers and the importance of what the correct numbers would be based on all the relevant info !  Thanks for the illustration.  I think this is important for all consumers to keep in mind in terms of deciding between conventional and FHA and to make sure the mortgage person has all the necessary info to quote interest rates and mortgage programs.

On a side note, have the consumers been notified by their mortgage pro that the rates and numbers will now be differnent considering the husband's credit scores ? 

 

6:26pm • #15
APR
05
430,670 Points 47 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jeff - Maybe you should stay in touch and even point out the fact that the rate is going to be different is the mortgage broker has not checked both of the borrowers scores?

10:27am • #16
311,907 Points 31 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jeff - thanks! I always love reading the good info you put out their man

2:21pm • #17
APR
07
148,192 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Yes, making the assumption that 20% down = conventional can bite you in the rear.

I know that I have learned from your blogs, Jeff. And I suspect that other professionals here have as well. 

4:17pm • #18
APR
08

Great post Jeff, and I did want to further expound on an important idea you mentioned. Remember the MIP drops off only because you are starting at an 80% LTV and amortizing the loan down from there. It's guaranteed to drop because by year 5 you have reduced at least 2% of your original principle bringing the balance down to the 78% drop threshold.

You are so right to say that so many don't understand that concept though. Thanks for bringing it up and thanks for the great post! That poor soul will learn from you or learn the hard way that you were right!

Gerry Suarez, Jr.

Your FHA Loan Pro!

6:39am • #19
APR
10
647,528 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Jeff- OK So now I have time to read the details, which of course I will leave up to you. Just to clarify, we don't list bank owned properties. We list short sales. They are not owned by the bank:) The buyer made an offer on one of our short sale listings. The really sad part is that your qualification letter was professional and informative. The buyer's lender's preq looked as if they just used Word and wrote one paragraph, no letter head, nothing, never even heard of them and can't find them online either. Scary, that they are staying with this person. All because of a rate that they think they are going to get and yet, not get at the end of the day. Glad they are not my customers. We are working with the seller on this one. Katerina

1:12am • #20
APR
13
223,898 Points 1 Featured Post

I do believe in experts, I do blieve in experts, I do believe in experts and I am not one in the mortgage business. Only a student as are most people. Thanks for a great lesson here.

7:07am • #21
223,898 Points 1 Featured Post

I do believe in experts, I do blieve in experts, I do believe in experts and I am not one in the mortgage business. Only a student as are most people. Thanks for a great lesson here.

7:07am • #22
APR
26
865,130 Points 68 Featured Posts Outside Blog

One of my mortgage brokers sat down with a first time home buyer that did his homework and was ready to sign up for a conventional loan. But no one actually showed him the real numbers, after showing him the real numbers he was saving over $50,000 in interest over the life of the loan by going FHA at 3.5% down rather than the conventional loan with 20% down. I love computers, because they show the truth and the bottom line!

 

2:28am • #23
JUL
10

Jeff,

Thanks for this excellent post.  I have a similar story on the rate shopper: with a 656 score, the borrower asked me to quote him (had to be conventional, it was a 2nd home).  I told him that he had some lates because of a loan he had cosigned for, and that there was a way to fix it, but if he didn't, he'd be at 5%.  He'd heard 4.75 from another lender and cut me off at the pass.  I know the other lender and called her to say the deal was hers; she had not checked credit and had quoted him the lower rate assuming his credit was over 720. 

I can guess exactly how their subsequent conversation went.  She ran credit and had to revise her quote.  And he walked away from her too.

Guess what: he went with a third lender, got the derogatory fixed, had a rapid rescore that took him to 711, and closed 3 weeks later than he would have with me, for 4.875%.  At his 90k loan amount, he saved $7 per month.  The realtor, meanwhile, had more than a few bad days waiting for this closing.

Rates do not, never have been, and never will be the sole criterion.  The mortgage planning approach, looking at total cost of the loan and monthly payment, will always be better, but the customer must be open to learning.  Unfortunately a lot of the advertising (Ditech, Lending Tree) sets the wrong expectation.

 

9:33am • #24
JUL
12
462,316 Points 13 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff - Thanks for taking the time to clearly how FHA could be the better loan.  I have been telling consumers it should be considered, however FHA this has an imagine problem.

6:17am • #25
AUG
03

Hi Jeff, enjoyed reading your comparison. I have just recently adding FHA to my business this year and having great success. I am open to learning all of its benefits. Can you share what program you use to run the comparision for FHA? I have encompass, if that hels, as it has so many features I have yet to discover. Thanks for sharing.

11:46am • #26

Leave a response…



(optional)
What does the graphic say?
 
Jeff_belonger_dc_another_same_with_background_10-10-09 Ambassador_large

Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- FHA Loans -- FHA mortgages - USDA loans

Cherry Hill, NJ

More about me…

Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc

Address: Cherry Hill New Jersey 08034 08002 08003, Haddon Heights New Jersey 08035, Haddonfield, NJ, 08033

Office Phone: (888) 835-1663

Cell Phone: (609) 440-5133

Email Me


website metrics

Jeff Belonger's Facebook profile

Subscribe to Mortgage Knowledge at its BEST!!!! (Jeff Belonger)


I just want to educate people about mortgages and the process. In regards to lending, I am very creative, intuitive, honest, and one who communicates information, may it be good or bad. I am a loan officer that looks out for your best interest.


GetDownpayment.com






Links

Archives

RSS 2.0 Feed for this blog

Find NJ real estate agents and Cherry Hill real estate on ActiveRain.