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I understand how you can miss the shill bidding. By design shill bidding is clandestine. Next time you attend a REDC auction here is how you can spot the shill bidding:

REDC

The tough way to spot shill bidding - live as it's happening:

  • Stand don't sit, near the back of the seating area. Position yourself so you have a clear view of the audience, the Auctioneer, and the Bidder Assistants.
  • The Auctioneer leads the price raises, almost all properties will have a real bidder at the lower opening values, as the price is raised by new real bidders many of the early real bidders will drop out as the price goes beyond their comfort level.
  • At some point there will be only one real bidder remaining. If the property has meet the unpublished reserve or come within a limit of the unpublished reserve he will be declared the winner.
  • BUT: If the bids are too far below the unpublished reserve the Auctioneer will continue calling for new bids. Then quickly and smoothly the Auctioneer will motion as if a new bidder has out bid the final real bidder. But there is no new bidder. None the less the price has been raised and now the Auctioneer will be calling for a new higher bid. That's it... it just happened that quickly in under 5 seconds the real bidder was 'out-bid' by no one! Most of the time the real bidder will not notice what is happening and will raise his bid even higher in hopes of out bidding whoever just out bid him.

The easy way to spot shill bidding - when the gavel falls:

When the gavel falls the REDC Auctioneer will announce one of the following three statements:

  1. "SOLD" - The property actually sold... it met or exceeded the unpublished reserve price and a real person was the high bidder.
  2. "SOLD SUBJECT TO CONFIRMATION" - The high bidder was a real person. He will be required to pay the deposit. Then he waits until the seller (usually a large bank or asset management company) reviews his high bid. It takes about 14 ~ 20 days to review the high bid. They will respond to your high bid in one of three ways:
    • They will accept it at your bid amount. Escrow will be opened and you will have 30 or 45 days from that point to pay for the house.
    • They will counter your high bid with a higher price. It's your choice to hold firm or pay the extra.
    • They will deny your bid and not give you the chance to raise your price.

  3. "CLOSED THE BIDDING" - Shill bidding!!! - The Auctioneer raised the price higher than anyone in the room was willing to pay. So he 'closes' the bidding. Many times the property will come back later in the day and REDC will try again to rip someone off.

In the last 18 months I won the high bid 9 different times. Each time I won "sold subject to confirmation". Only twice was my high bid accepted by the sellers.

The REDC team are very good at what they do, they are smooth, and I have personally seen buyers pay thousands over their current high bids because they thought a real person was bidding against them. REDC is dishonest. They willfully trick buyers into paying more. If you ask REDC about the practice of shill bidding they will deny they 'shill bid'... but they do admit to 'bidding on the sellers behalf'. It's printed right there in the REDC rules. From the REDC rules item number 3:Reserve Price

"Except where prohibited by law, the Auctioneer may open bidding on any Property by placing a bid on behalf of the Seller and may further bid on behalf of the Seller, up to the amount of the Reserve Price, by placing successive or consecutive bids for a Property, or by placing bids in response to other bidders."

What's the definition of shill bidding? This definition from Wikipedia sums it up:

"A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage others unaware of the set-up to purchase said goods..."

Now you know something very few people at a REDC auction know. You have an advantage. Lessons: know what you are getting into. Do your home work. Read the legal fine print. Read my blog.

Take care my friends,
Larry.
 

3 Comments on Secrets To Catch Auction Shill Bidding

AUG
11
2010
1 Featured Post Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Lawrence, I realize this is an old post but I have been attending REDC auctions the last few days and have been noticing these "tricks of the trade."  I still have hopes of picking up a deal or two but am definitely aware of these tricks going on during the bidding and that a winning bid is far from an agreed purchase price. 

Are you happy with your two purchases and did they prove successful?  Did you purchase for rental properties or to flip?  I always like to hear from someone who is looking in hind sight...

12:54am • #1
AUG
13
2010

Hi Jason,

Although this post has some age, the shill bidding continues with REDC.

Yes, I did well with both of the properties that I referenced in the article. One I sold to my sister 15% below market value, she still has it as a rental. The other I flipped quickly.

I have been high bidder at Williams & Williams auctions about 5 times, 2 of the five times they confirmed my high bid. As far as I have seen Williams & Williams works with integrity. I respect them.

Best,
Larry

2:37pm • #2
AUG
30
2010

I attended a REDC auction for the first time today (August 29th).  The vast majority of properties had un-announced shill bidding (other than the disclaimer in the terms).  I'd say about half of the auctions had no actual human bidder at all.  The auctioneer would do something like 'going, going, gone, bang gavel' but not say sold.  No 'escorter' would go out onto the floor.  The auction helpers in suits would routinely point to people that weren't bidding and cry out, go up and talk to people as though they were bidding (even though they definitely weren't.)

Immensly unethical, deceptive, and I'm surprised that it's legal (assuming that it is).

Sacramento, California if it makes a difference.

Wish I'd read your blog before I went although I didn't fall for it.  It was very disheartening to realize that every single low price was just a teaser and it was impossible to buy at that level because the auctioneer just shilled it up even if you were the only bidder in the room.

Mike
2:19am • #3

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Lawrence French

Huntington Beach, CA

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SilverMoon Real Estate Brokers

Office Phone: (714) 602-3588

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Insights from the Southern California Single Family House Investor World.


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