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Realtor being a hero or inappropriate?

I recently had a friend call me who said she and her husband had listed their home with an agent whom they had previously worked with to buy it. She called me for advice one day and indicated that her home was listed in the MLS but that she had not yet signed a listing contract with her agent.

The seller started asking me questions about the listing agreement the agent had emailed but not reviewed with her. I didn't want to be in the middle and encouraged her to communicate directly with her agent. I also let her know that her home should not have been listed by the agent in the MLS without a signed listing agreement; it had already been on the market for a number of days.

The seller contacted me the following day and informed me that her husband had spoken to another agent that took action after finding out their listing agent did not have an executed listing agreement in place. The agent went to the home and took out the listing agent's yard sign and removed the house key from the listing agent's lockbox. She then reported everything to the local real estate board.

Needless to say, the agent who initially put the home up for sale was removed from the picture and the home is now listed with the new agent.

Although the sellers had not signed a contract with the listing agent, I still think it was inappropriate of the agent who got involved to yank out the listing agent's yard sign and take the key out of another agent's lockbox. I think it would have been best for the sellers to communicate their concerns with the agent and contact the local real estate board directly. Maybe this lady considers herself a superhero for taking control of the situation and handling everything for the sellers but it just doesn't sound completely ethical.

Lessons that can be learned here:

1. Sellers need to ensure they have a listing contract in place before listing their home for sale with a real estate agent.

2. Agents need to be sensitive and watch they do not overstep boundaries when other Realtors® are involved. I'm not saying unethical or illegal behavior of other agents should be tolerated but the way in which it is handled is important.

3. Even though sellers can sign a contract online nowadays, it is still important to review the listing contract with your clients and answer any questions they may have. This eliminates any confusion that can arise later regarding commissions, inclusions, exclusions, etc...

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Posted by Colorado Springs Realty Patricia Beck on 04/07/2009 08:10 PM

Comments (83)

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83 Comments on Realtor being a hero or inappropriate?

APR

All your points are completely valid, Patricia. Personally, I would have voiced my concerns with the listing agent myself rather than go around calling other agents and asking their opinion. The second agent's behavior is a bit questionable.

Patricia, Unconscionable for the first agent to put the listing in the MLS without a signed listing agreement, and unconscionable for the second agent to remove the sign. The whole thing could have been handled better by both agents. In Maryland we can't sign documents online. Rich

In Texas you can get in trouble with the Texas Real Estate Commission for listing a home in MLS that doesn't have a signed listing agreement.

Electronic signature is valid in the United States of America, period.

Hi Patricia. That second agent was very aggressive with pulling the sign out. The homeowner should have just called YOU, the best around.

Surprising move by the second agent. The fact that the sellers listed with her sends the message that her behavior was acceptable and it was not. Her actions were just as questionable as the first one. She could also find herself in some hot water.

The crazy stories we all have! I think there was some real communication problems and probably drama that didn't need to be if the seller would have taken your advice. I don't like the aggressiveness of the second agent but without a signed contract I guess she felt she could act that way to show her power. Sad really

We don't know for sure if the listing agreement was in fact signed by the seller, electronically or otherwise. Just that is was not reviewed with the seller. I like to give the benefit of doubt that she did have a signed agreement before placing in MLS. I cannot fathom any office allowing such a practice. That being said how dare this second agent take out the sign and key. I think the seller should have called the office manager. Or, better said, they should have called you.

I think Gary has the best point of all...Just out of curiosity, why are you giving away your advice for free? They obviously didn't value your service and ability, why should they value your advice? They basically treated you like a prostitute. You're good enough to take the benefits from but your not welcome in my house. Not cool!

The lesson to you should be that your service is available ONLY to those to whom you have a chance of getting paid from. A friend is not a friend if they take advantage of you.

wow, that is weird. It seems that you are the only sane and ethical agent in the bunch yet you are the one with no listing.... :o( I know sometimes I tread lightly with friends because to me I would rather have a friend than business.

What's the matter with your friend? She couldn't talk with the original agent that they had worked with before? You would think that since they worked together before they would trust each other more. What was it about the listing agreement that she had a question or concern about?

What a mess. Both agents need to be disciplined. Who knows what the whole story is regarding the unsigned listing agreement. Sounds like a case for the ethics committee.

Patricia, Congrats on the feature! Real estate agents never cease to amaze me. I'm shaking my headat BOTH of them!! I can't imagine putting a listing in without a signed listing agreement but I also can't imagine going and taking someones sign out of the yard and key out of their lock box. I'm with Michael, what a mess!!

I agree the agent should not have gotten involved. It should have been turned over to the MLS and a complaint filed with the state licensing board.

Unfortunately, like any profession, there are those that play in the street in heavy traffic.

This is a strange situation. I wonder if there are some additional facts we aren't aware of here! At any rate, looks like agents were acting less that professionally and that give a bad name to all of us.

What a crazy story! One of these days there will be a book with the craziest real estate agent stories ever.....I can't wait to get my copy.

Hate it for you....and a friend to boot. Gary has some fine insight on this. Listing a property should be a very straight foward process. amazing

That is odd behavior from both parties involved. I think the second agent was probably within her rights to do what she did, but it is VERY poor form. Just because it is ALLOWED doesn't mean it is the right course of action. Very aggressive!

I think that the second agent should have called the first AFTER having had the listing signed and asked the first agent to come and remove their sign and lockbox off of her listing - BUT the Seller (a friend?) who already obviously had qualms enough about the first agent to call you? The Seller trusted you enough to express their concerns to you and ask for your opinion. I can only imagine that they don't live in your market area not to have listed with you - but they should have then relied on you - their trusted friend - to refer them to an ethical, professional Realtor.

Yukc, yuck and yuck. The first agent was completely in violation of the code of ethics for not having an agreement in writing before entering the home in the MLS. The sellers are wrong for using you for advice but not hiring you. The 3rd agent is a maniac, but must not have put off the seller because she got the listing.

Very interesting story... Agent # 1 should not have put into the MLS without a signed contract.. Did Agent #2 have a signed contract... I agree with Jason...

We have to have a signed agreement available to send to the MLS in order to list it there... The second agent sounds a little over the top to me, too...

In Florida a verbal agreement is legal but unenfoceable, go figure. Both had questionable actions, I always love it when people talk ethics and head to the board for answers. One day oards will be done away with and members will have to talk to their brokers.

We had a case here (actually two) where a member was told to file a complaint no one thought that they were both from the same office. I wonder who the broker sided with. One was over a commissio and wound up be arbritrated, cost the broker $500.

I always say if Realtors toted gun there would be none because they would shoot each other.

This is one crazy story -- gee, agents just randomly going about and sticking signs in yards without an agreement .

I have had a similar situation but felt as if I handled it with a little more caution. It all turned out in the end.

I used to live in CS! There is a GREAT agent out there who got me into Real Estate!

Hi Patricia,

I'm in agreement with you on this one. At this point, if your "friend" callswith any more discussion, I'd refer her back to her agent, period.

And we wonder why the general public views us right down there with used car sales men. It makes me ill when I hear about this type of behavior, as it reflect poorly on the rest of us.

I don't think Agent #2 was any better than agent #1. I'd have qualms about hiring someone like that. Why in the world didn't they get a "good" agent and hire you?

you did the right thing, you didnt end up with the listing but you did the right thing

Hi Patricia; what a snarled up mess! Sounds like you did the right thing stepping back.

Sounds like the more aggressive agent got the listing and is that not what it's about these days? Without a listing agreement, I see nothing wrong with pulling the sign or taking the key out as they were all in place against the MLS rules and probably the real estate commission.

I also agree with the posters about this friend not really being a friend. At the very least she should have called you prior to the 2nd agent getting the listing.

APR

Wow Patricia, I have heard lots over the years but this one might be the topper. You are right to stay out this but there may have been more than ethics violations here. This might be one for the Dept of Real Estate.

You're spot on. It's clear what the 1st agent did was illegal. What the 2nd agent did might not have been illegal, but it was certainly stepping out of bounds....there's a reason why we have mediation, adjudication, etc. and not rogue patrols.

I also agree with Gary, the client should have listed with you!!

Patricia, I think Rick Sergison makes some very valid points. Thanks for putting this out there for all of us to reflect on. I have some very dear clients who have become dear friends. They have referred people to me a lot. What I find out is sometimes those referred already have an agent--and either they're happy with them and talking to me as a favor to my friends, or they're not happy and want to know if I'd take over the listing. I've never done the latter. My question is "have you talked with your agent about the reasons you're dissatisfied?" And my best advice is to pick up the phone, let them know what you want from them that you're not getting, and if they don't provide it, you have some decisions to make.

Patricia, excellent post, I think like many other commenters that the correct thing would have been to have talked to the original agent (the clients doing the talking), they should have asked questions and gone over the listing agreement with the agent. If there was a problem, at that point they should have asked him or her to come and get their sign and lockbox as well as return the key. The other agent may have been right in her action's although forward, I believe that the lack of signature on a listing agreement needed to verified, electronic signature are valid signatures, and your friends needed to know whether or not they had "signed electronically", if not then what happened is legal. Great lessons learned points!

Patricia - This is strange all the way around. We use electronic signatures but obviously, the sellers did not understand if that was the case in this situation. That could have been straightened out through a conversation. The agent should not have put the home in the MLS without a signature, electronic or otherwise. The really aggressive behavior is on the part of the second agent. WOW! There are folks out there who will do about anything!

Mary

Patricia, I think both agents should be spanked and sent to their rooms for a while! Regards,

Emailing a document is not the same as an electronic signature. I can't imagine not meeting with a seller and going through the contract with them, unless they are out of the area.

The first agent is obviously a bit more aggressive than correct. The aggressive agent had a little extra time on their hand. Oh well, such is real estate. I bet an AR would not have done that!

I work with a lot of attorneys. One of my clients is an attorney/real estate broker/investor from out of our area.

She submitted the properties to me with a "listing agreement" that she signed, spelling out all our terms. It is not on a standard PAR contract. It was based on a series of emails back and forth where we spelled out the terms. I pointed this out and she replied: a contract is what 2 people decide it is. A "listing contract" does not need to be a standard form, or something from the state or your MLS.

CONTRACT - An agreement between two or more competent parties in which an offer is made and accepted, and each party benefits. The agreement can be formal, informal, written, oral or just plain understood. Some contracts are required to be in writing in order to be enforced. (2) An agreement between two or more parties which creates obligations to do or not do the specific things that are the subject of that agreement. Examples of a contract are a lease, a promissory note, or a rental agreement.

I made the comment earlier but was not signed in.... Did not want to be anonymous! The first agent is obviously a bit more aggressive than correct. The aggressive agent had a little extra time on their hand. Oh well, such is real estate. I bet an AR would not have done that!

Wow! I continue to be amazed at the choices some agents make. Did either of these agents really think their actions were appropriate or ethical? Sounds like you handled everything appropriately, though. Hats off to you, Patricia.

Heather- I agree, the sellers should have communicated with their agent instead of getting everyone else involved! In fact, they had the 2^nd agent speak to the agent for them instead of cancelling the listing themselves.

Richard- I agree, he needed a contract with the sellers. They didn't receive a contract from him to sign for days and days.

Ross- True, but he did not have a signed contract when he listed the home.

Gary- I think she would have been more pleased if she went that route! She said that her and her husband didn't want it to make our friendship awkward. Thanks for stopping by Gary.

Cindy- The sellers are obviously not educated about proper real estate practices. Thanks for commenting.

Jo- Too much drama for sure! The sellers could have prevented a lot of it.

Foreclosures Short Sales & Luxury Florida Keys Real Estate- No, they did not have a signed contract electronic or otherwise. They didn't even have a contract to review until it had been on the market for a couple of weeks or more.

Sara- It was definitely a conflict because we are friends but at the same time she is asking me for free advice. I couldn't agree more, if they didn't want to work with me to list their home, they should have solicited advice elsewhere.

Cristal- It can get complicated with friends sometimes!

Wow! That whole process could have been handled a little differently.

Tim- I know!! I told her: "You need to discuss this with YOUR agent." She asked me if she should fire him and I again encouraged her to speak about the matter with her agent. I guess once he finally sent the listing agreement over to her she didn't understand the commission breakdown and was asking me what x% meant in the contract.

Michael- I know the 2^nd agent reported that the 1^st agent didn't have a listing agreement to the board but not sure if it went any further.

Marchel- Thanks! It was definitely a mess and I think the sellers made it much more complicated by running to other agents instead of the one they were working with!!

Sandra- I agree, thanks for stopping by.

Joan- From what I understand, that is what happened and it was very unprofessional indeed!

Tina- Now that would be an interesting book!

Claude- You would think so!

Jason- True, the 1^st agent had no contract but it wasn't the Right thing to do. Thanks for stopping by!

Rick- Very strange. I actually know her market area very well and even lived in the area for some time. She didn't want the friendship to become awkward....well it did!

J. Philip- The 2^nd agent does sound like a maniac...maybe I need to be more of a maniac to secure listings LOL. So much drama!

Roland- I am assuming Agent 2 probably got a contract signed immediately judging her behaviors.

Lane- Thank you for your comment.

Charles- You're right!

Bob & Carolyn- Very crazy!

Stephen- This situation could have been handled differently. I love it here, I'm sure you come back and visit often!

Lynda- Most definitely!

Sandy- It reflects badly on us and makes agents look very unprofessional.

Lora- Thanks for commenting...sellers do the strangest things!

Walter- Thanks! I think with the market being tougher, many agents cross boundaries to get listings.

Eileen- I didn't want to make her agent look bad, everyone makes mistakes. I just thought it would be best for her to express her concerns to him directly.

Russell- True but I'm not so sure about her going into someone else's lockbox to take the key out. Although Agent 1 had no listing agreement, Agent 2 could have handled the situation much differently.

William- I am curious if Agent 1 will take any action against Agent 2?

Things do get out of hand at time. If we weren't so quick to "react" and just played it cool we'd be better off in the long run. It's a good lesson learned isn't it.

Patricia Aulson/Portsmouth NH Real Estate

Sherry- Exactly! This is what I told her and pulling another agent into the mix will just cause more problems than anything else.

Tony & Darcy- I guess they never spoke to the agent toward the end and had Agent 2 take care of all of the communication which I disagree with. They also never did sign the listing agreement.

Mary- Well agent 2 takes the cake for being so aggressive in obtaining a listing! No signature, no contract and that was the big mistake of the first agent.

Pete- I don't think agent 2 would stay in her room!

Jen- We have to watch we don't get totally impersonal with technology.

Erica- True, but as another poster stated, a verbal contract is unenforceable. Thanks for stopping by!

Gary- You never know what to expect in this field of work!

Peggy- Thank you. I didn't speak with either agent but have wondered what "what were they thinking?!"

Alice and Jim- Yes!

Patricia- It is! Sometimes we need to stop and think about what we are really doing in a situation...these agents should have.

Patricia,

Just Insane... I cannot see burning a bridge for a listing... Another lesson would be choosing battles carefully and the other agent, although they got the listing, may very well be somewhat shunned through their reputation.

Sean

Sean- I don't think Agent 2 thought about her reputation possibly be affected by all of this. I think it's important to watch how our actions affect other real estate agents we cooperate with as well.

The first agent should not have put it in the MLS with an agreement, and the second agent overstepped (in my opinion). Perhaps if I was called I might have suggested the sellers contact the manager of the brokerage for assistance.

This is another one of those times where it may not be illegal, but sounds unethical on the part of the second agent...I'm sure they did what they thought was right.

Not having been in the mess, can only comment you are probaly better off not to have gotten involed, and if I were you I wouldn't ever expect any business from this friend ?

I agree with Sharon, I would have made the recommendation to call the Managing Broker. Many times I have found out that there are not aware of what their agents are doing.

The agent who now has the listing must be real hungry for listings and saw a way to get one and took it. Maybe not the most ethical thing to do, but who knows. I probably would have done what you did.

YEs, a verbal contract is unenforceable. But I don't think that means that you couldn't take a verbal listing contract. You'd be taking a risk in not getting paid. Also, emailing back and forth is certainly "in writing". My point is that you don't necessarily have to have a standard board-issued Listing Contract to have a "contract"

I disagree with that agent's actions, who are we the police. I agree with what you did and how you handled it, but common, that is spare time for sure.

I have found that friends and relatives are strange when it comes to someone in real estate.

Vigilantismgets me angry in any form. All Boards and Commissions have rules that we go by, and that Realtor crossed the line. The seller who contacted you has a right to know and you acted appropriately. What bugs me is Brokers who say don't get involved, and even though someone acted unethically, don't report them because you might have to do business with them in the future. We should police ourindustry, but we have to know what consititues going too far.

patricia, i didn't read everyone's responses, I think you should have gone after that listing. or at least yank the sign out.

What I find so ironic is that our so called friends that don't use us, don't hessitate to call us when they have a problem or question. If they used us in the first place non of that stuff would ever happen right!!!!!

I agree with you that you should encourage the sellers to communicate first before taking action.

It amazes me how questionably ethical some agents are. Our local board is less than helpful when dealing with rouge agents and their actions, even long extablishe dagents get very complacient and just don't think the "rules" applyyto them. I, as I am sure many of us do, get calls from unhappy clients of others and you have to be so careful not to cross the line. I typically support the other agent, yet I have also given them the name of that agents manager, suggesting he/she call them.

Agent #2 must have just been fed up with Agent #1 tactics - and no appropiate responce from the board.

So the AGENT obviously had permission to put a sign and lockbox up and the SELLER felt it was OK to call around to check with OTHER agents about the terms of the contract?!? My head is realing on so MANY levels... sounds like the unethical being led around by the immoral...or some version of same. Ouch.

APR

Sounds like agent #1 took it for granted that everything would be signed with no questions based on their prior relationship. They should have done a better job crossing the "t" and dotting the "i".

Whether or not the agent had a signature, the 2nd agent had NO RIGHT to remove sign/key. They stepped over a line there.

APR

Sharon- Thanks for stopping by. I think that is a great idea by having them contact the broker manager.

Christianne- I agree!

Ann- She didn't want to mix business with our friendship but looks like she already did!

Bettina- I agree, that would have worked out better.

Brien- I'm sure there are many crazy stories about agents in the current market

Erica- I completely agree Erica! The agent may have trusted them since he worked with them previously and thought the verbal was sufficient at the time.

Heather- Definitely

Norma- I have experienced the same thing Norma and I don't understand it.

Joe- I think she crossed the line as well. If someone is unethical, it definitely needs to be reported by the parties involved.

Jaime- LOL. It got so messy, I decided to stay far away from that one!

Teri- Now that doesn't make any sense does it?!

Greg- I think the biggest problem here was the breakdown of communication.

Jo- Agent #2 acted very quickly to secure the listing. Encouraging them to contact the board or the broker manager is a good idea.

Sarah- So was mine!! The sellers should have known to check with their own agent regarding the terms of the contract.

Don- You are right about that!

Erica- I agree!!

APR

Realtors still need to go through the contract with clients. It is important that the consumer understand the terms. It only saves your behind in the end.

APR

This is a friend? What a mess. And why do they know so many realtors? Do you think they're squeezing the commission and that's why they're not using you? Seems odd that they would go with someone else after knowing the 1st agent put it into the mls. Why wouldn't they call the first agent prior to talking with the second agent. I think, as a buyer's agent, that I'd like to stay the heck away from showing this property. I don't believe I want to do business the seller or seller's second agent!

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