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Should ActiveRain Ban Profanity?

By John Novak

Real Estate Agent with Keller Williams Realty The Marketplace NV License # 56750

April 12, 2009 09:45 AM

Maybe I've just been catching ActiveRain at the 'right' time lately, but it seems that there is more and more profanity creeping into posts and comments. Initially I thought this would be addressed by AR's Terms of Service or the Guidelines. Seeing no mention there, I reasoned that maybe the AR Team considered this a free speech issue because this site is essentially a public forum.

How do other social media sites address this issue? In the Facebook Terms of Use, users agree not to:

"upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available any content that we deem to be harmful, threatening, unlawful, defamatory, infringing, abusive, inflammatory, harassing, vulgar, obscene, fraudulent, invasive of privacy or publicity rights, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable"

LinkedIn's User Agreement says:

"don't upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available or initiate any content that is unlawful, libelous, abusive, obscene, discriminatory or otherwise objectionable"

Twitter takes a slightly different approach in their Terms of Service:

"We may, but have no obligation to, remove Content and accounts containing Content that we determine in our sole discretion are unlawful, offensive, threatening, libelous, defamatory, obscene or otherwise objectionable or violates any party's intellectual property or these Terms of Use."

Exactly how big of an issue is this on ActiveRain? Do a search for any common obscenity and you may be suprised at the results. While a majority of these are found in non-member comments, there is still a sizable amount in member's posts.

The line between ActiveRain being a real estate network and a social network is blurred, and is different for everyone. How far should we pull back the curtain to let people see us as we really are? For each member, that answer is unique.

What the ActiveRain Guidelines do say is this:

We encourage free speech and defend everyone's right to express unpopular points of view. But we don't permit hate speech, which contains slurs, or the malicious use of sterotypes intended to attack or demean a particular gender, sexual orientation, race, religion or nationality ...

... Let ActiveRain staff and other members know what you are thinking. Member feedback is essential to our continued growth and development.

Should ActiveRain ban profanity? My answer is Yes. I think eliminating profanity will present a better overall image of our community. If someone can't express a thought or emotion without profanity, then they're probably not that good of a writer to begin with. That's my personal view. Whether or not the AR community or individual members agree with it, I can still vote with my mouse to read or not read a post. Consumers can vote with their wallets by working or not working with an agent.

"Let ActiveRain staff and other members know what you are thinking." Take the poll, and leave your thoughts in the comments. Should ActiveRain ban profanity?

(Reminder: Although there may be strong feelings on both sides of this topic, remember to discuss the issue, and not particular individuals or posts.)

UPDATE, 04/17/09:
BuzzDash.com, the site which provided the poll that was in this post, ceased operating on 04/17/09 so that functionality is no longer available. The results of the poll were that 64% said 'No, ActiveRain should not ban profanity'; 31% said Yes; and 5% said profanity was OK but the post should be Members Only.

I appreciate all of the thoughtful viewpoints and discussion on this post. With a total of 150 comments and all sides well represented, I have decided to disable further commenting.

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John Novak

Keller Williams Realty The Marketplace - Las Vegas, NV

Henderson, Las Vegas and Summerlin Real Estate

C Tann-Starr commented (#122): "John, I hope you don't mind that I'm having so much fun on your post with my family and friends. :-)"

I don't mind at all, Carolyn. There has been some great dialogue here on all sides of the issue. I respect those who have invoked free speech, and am encouraged by others who call for a level of professionalism.

One point that I want to clarify is that this post is not about any particular member, post, or comment. It's about the presence of profanity on ActiveRain. Do a search for the f-bomb and you'll get seven pages of results. That's personally disappointing to me, but as I said: "Whether or not the AR community or individual members agree with it, I can still vote with my mouse to read or not read a post. Consumers can vote with their wallets by working or not working with an agent."

Apr 13, 2009 03:52 AM

Melissa Zavala

Broadpoint Properties - Escondido, CA

Broker, Escondido Real Estate, San Diego County

I agree with Jeff Dowler . . . either I've not read the "right" posts . . . or I have not noticed. Although I must say that if you are blogging to create a professional name for yourself, it probably ain't such a good idea to be unprofessional. Thanks for the post.

Apr 13, 2009 03:54 AM

Jason Sardi

Auto & Home & Life Insurance throughout North Carolina - Charlotte, NC

Your Agent for Life

I come from the Mark Twain school of thinking,

Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

Nice post to stimulate a good discussion, John.

Apr 13, 2009 04:06 AM

C Tann-Starr

Tann Starr & Associates, Inc. - Palm Bay, FL

Drinking with bums is a very interesting mental picture, Patricia. Thank you... it gives me lots to wonder about. ;-)

John, I think the reason why I'm having so much fun here on your lovely post is because it appears that some people assume to have the corner market on what clients really think. I am not that presumptuous. I don't read minds and enjoy interacting with the public. I like to discover why they read and contact me because I find that it's really refreshing to know rather than assume a thing.

I just do what I do and try to enjoy my day, or engage in a little blog therapy when I want to unburden myself or share an interesting moment. I find sharing my thoughts works wonders because I like the bantering across comments and private e-mails. Most people are generally helpful and kind and I am very happy to report that I have been helped a lot by my virtual family at Club Chaos. It's a safe spot to say what ever one feels a need to. It's a place where the public gets to see a bunch of friends across the industry at play. John, I hope you'll come on over and play with us. I also hope you'll forgive me the mini-jack of your blog. :-)

I am of the opinion that no one really knows why anyone does business with anyone else unless they are given the specific reasons by the person that decides to choose to. People sometime lie by omission or say what they think other people want to hear. Doing it in private but not doing it in public does not mean one does not have a potty mouth, it just means they publish potty orally to the limited public of their choice at a non-cyber-forum location (LOL).

What they can't control is when their people (e.g. friends, co-workers, family members...) forward private e-mail to let a third party know how the first party really feels, which can be fun when you have it and it contradicts what they say in public. (Yes, I am a group founder and get those a lot.) How about those FB pictures people post tagging the I-do-not-do-this person doing it?

I am always fascinated by people who think people like me who just say what they mean should be edited or given a ban list. We have community rules. I'm happy with them. If AR ever asks me to take something down, that puppy is gone. With an apology. I love them. I love being here. This place is unique because the members give it flavor. So far, nothing major has come up. So I'll hang out and enjoy bantering here if you don't mind... :-)

To the nays: I have all kinds of clients who require all kinds of professionals to service their needs. I have contracted with clients and closed on homes specifically because of my blog. I've received a significant amount of referrals from my peers specifically because of my blog. I network quite nicely with professionals across stellar industries who have very interesting degrees who not only read me, they complain if three days go by and I have not posted something for us to talk about or for them to entertain themselves with at the office because I break up their day. They never know what I'm going to do next. That makes them peek in and linger in my group to see if I am on-line. People have even gone so far as specifically request that I wrte or expand upon specific topics. I do so every so often to keep them happy. Turns out they like when Wordy C misbehaves on-line. That is a running gag soap opera. It even got me an invitation to do three segments on TLC. They asked around and they like me. Original content is King. I wont be doing the potty mouth thing on national television, but having a periodic potty moment on-line certainly did not harm my blog or my prospects. I'm sharing this for the newbies because I'm a newbie. Haven't been blogging a year yet but have come very far just by being real and me.

My public, clients and peers like my kids. They like the way I poke fun at myself and play well with others. They like me. All of me, including the periodic potty moments, after all it's just a small part of the whole, not the whole itself. They like me when I am in a suit and they still like me when I show up in my jeans. I think we should be careful when we start making lists of things to ban based upon opinions rather than facts. A good rant that entertains and doesn't break any laws may be more effective than you think. Turns out my few potty moments actually made me some money (LOL).

The flagging system works well. I like it. Lets consider each post one at a time for what it is and not make sweeping statements lumping people into a hypothetical lower professional class bracket because we approach life and blogging differently... Judging people works both ways. I'm not trying to judge anyone but I am defending every person's right to their opinion, brilliant, stupid or otherwise.

I am not the poster child for the profane, so don't even go there. I haven't engaged in libel, slandered or defamed anyone so don't put words in my mouth or say I said something that I did not say. Being different doesn't make me any less mature, professional, classless or tasteless. It just means that I am not afraid to really be me, flaws and all. A lot of people identify with that. I've been hired off of Facebook, Twitter and AR specifically because people looking for something non-real estate have stumbled across me and decided to hang around. They actually tell their friends to get in touch with me. They tell people to read my blog. You would probably be surprised at the volume of e-mail I enjoy regarding non-real estate conversations with the general public because of a pithy, playful comment that caught their attention and birthed a pen pal. Pen pals always introduce you to their peeps. This is how social media networking is done. You cultivate your connections and don't worry about the business. When the time is right for the client the business will make its way to your door. I've had teenagers contact me because of my music. Guess what? Six months later when they became legal adults they hooked up with two more friends and now I have four 18 year olds trying to buy a two family home near a college. We play World of Warcraft on-line.

Does that make me a 40+ year old immature unprofessional or do I "got game" like my clients claim?

I understand the image conscious, politically correct this-is-my-version-of-what-constitutes-professionalism answers that I've enjoyed reading here, but most people are not stupid. Most people do say off colored things once in a while and more of them connect with a quirky moment than not because it reminds them of something from their own lives. I always get more views than comments, and I average hundreds of e-mails a day that have nothing to do with being notified that someone has commented on my blog or written on my wall in FB.

I think that says a lot about how some people really feel when a writer manages to connect with them because they thank you for your honestly. Misspelled, spoofed, well spoken, slang, video gamed, music making, pristine or spotty-potty mouthed and all...

As a paralegal I have to write legal briefs and do a lot of legal research. I do not want to sound like that person when I do real estate and play with my friends on-line like in Active Rain.

Here's what Wordy C has to say about the subject: Not a professional my a$$... Don't like my blog? Don't read me bay-bay! (Translated: I can't please everyone so Bite Me! - LOL). There's over 5K groups and 140K people here. Geez... get over it already. Vote NO and flag the inappropriate! ;-)

Yes, it's true, I am sooooo easily amused (LMAO).

Apr 13, 2009 05:14 AM

Jessica Horton Jessica Horton Realty

Jessica Horton - Jessica Horton & Associates - Griffin, GA

Jessica Horton: I'm not #1... You Are!

Awwwwwwwww....."Bite Me!" My favorite words on Active Rain.

How I love thee. :)

Apr 13, 2009 05:25 AM

C Tann-Starr

Tann Starr & Associates, Inc. - Palm Bay, FL

Jessica, my love, I am such a huge fan. Seriously! ;-)

Apr 13, 2009 05:26 AM

Bob Stewart

ActiveRain - Seattle, WA

ActiveRain Ambassador

It is our belief that our members can and do act in a manner that is consistent with the level of professionalism they wish to portray to the public. (I really just wanted to leave this statement as I think it encapsulates my entire feelings on this topics.......but I thought maybe I should add just a bit more)

We attempt to administer our community guidelines using common sense and reason. We have determined that it is not reasonable for us to dictate to our members what words they can and can not use. If a particular member insists on using profanity to the degree that we find it unreasonable and over the top, we may step in and ask that they consider the impact that their choice of words may be having on the community as a whole.

That being said, I am a firm believer that consumers, and people in general (as we are all consumers really), have the ability to look at ActiveRain (or any large group) and understand that the actions of one does not necesarily reflect the intentions of the group as a whole. Have people stopped using real estate agents or mortgage brokers because there were those amongst those groups that committed fraud during the housing run up? No. And I do not believe that visitors to our site will find the wealth of information provided by our members any less outstanding based on a few members choosing to use words that others find offensive.

Many members have left comments to the effect that, communities such as ours tend to self regulate. People that are outlandish simply for the sake of being outlandish will get little attention and most likely move on to a place where their outlandish behavior is rewarded.

Dawn Maloney left a great statement: "Freedom brings responsibility. We are free to use the words we wish, but we have a responsibility to choose words that are worthy of that freedom." I would simply ask our members to consider the implications of ANYTHING you write in your blog, not just words.

If there is any one person on this thread that wants to be the final say on what words we use on ActiveRain and which we don't, I will issue this challenge to you: There are far more important issues facing our industry and one that I am particularly interested in is children's homelessness in the United States. How is it possible that in the richest country in the world we have children without a place to live? It's mind boggling. So I will allow the first person that develops and implements a plan get all our homeless children off our streets, to deliver a list of words they find offensive and I will personally make sure that all words on that list are not used on our network.

I don't want that last statement to seem like I am dismissing the importance of portraying a professional image, but I believe this is a personal decision. As a group we should be focusing on issues that impact people's lives.

Apr 13, 2009 06:37 AM

C Tann-Starr

Tann Starr & Associates, Inc. - Palm Bay, FL

Bob Stewart, I absolutely love you. Very well said... We do have more important things to worry about and work towards. My heart spot is the Autism and PDD-NOS community because my kids are learning disabled. I speak a lot at community functions and help families of special needs kids find housing.

Those families who find me do because I blog about my kids on this Real Estate forum. Where else besides Active Rain could I ever be blessed to create an Autism/PDD-NOS Channel?

I second Bob. The fact is that what we do as individuals is a personal decision. :-)

Apr 13, 2009 06:59 AM

Daren Krause

Keller Williams Realty - Austin, TX

Just flag any post or comment you find objectionable. This is a community and enough flags sends a clear signal that a particular post or comment does not meet the community's standards.

On an individual level, it might be a necessary lesson that a writer needs to learn: perception matters.

George Carlin was a man who really explored how we used language and the importance that we gave to certain words. He was a genius in that regard. However, this is a business community above all else. The relationships are business relationships. That said, the community generally will subscribe to commonly accepted business traditions.

Apr 13, 2009 07:00 AM

Carol Smith

Casmi Photography - Mebane, NC

:::::: STANDING OVATION FOR BOB STEWART ::::::

In many ways any online community is self-policing. Regardless of the genre of the community.

There are SO many other issues in this world that require our full attention that it does seem rather counter-productive to feel that we have to monitor each other like school children.

Thanks Bob for putting it in perspective.

Apr 13, 2009 07:06 AM

Brian Lee Burke

Kenna Real Estate - Lone Tree, CO

Broker & Advising Expert-Kenna Luxury Real Estate

Wow, that took a while to read, there are some amazing comments. Bob sums it up perfectly. I think I would like to use the word "toilet paper" tough (see Jesse Clifton's comment, way in the beginning). Hmmm maybe I can implement it somehow. lol. ~Rita

Apr 13, 2009 07:39 AM

Alexander Harb

Knights Investing - Mesquite, TX

Dallas, Texas Real Estate Investing

What Bob Stewart has said, says it all so well....the consumer will judge who to contact..... those who choose to post profanity in their blogs will more than likely have a readership that likes to read what is said for one reason or another, BUT would rather do business with someone else....

I for one ~~~ would rather be one of the ones that have business coming my way, not just readers....

I still find it very sad that an AR employee featured a post with LOTS of profanity in it....... whom ever it was that did that, in my opinion, does NOT have good taste or a high degree of professionalism......

All the high minded, intellectual sophistry and "adult" comments about the issue ~~ supporting the usage of profanity still does not change the fact....... profanity is still profanity and the authors of such will reap what they sow....... that is the way things are.......

Thank goodness for that!!

=-)

Apr 13, 2009 07:42 AM

Sonny Kwan

Quantum Group Commercial - Residential - Lease Seattle, WA - Mercer Island, WA

206-819-8228

There was a time when woman were not allowed to sit at a bar unless accompanied by a gentleman, or no one could carry a poured drink from the bar over to a table. Times have changed and so has profanity.

What exactly consitutes being profanity? Dam? (notice how I misspelled the word?) or putting God in front of it?

People can do whatever they want or say whatever they want, I believe if they use the harsh words online, it only hurts their credibility in the eyes of the clients they go after.

Apr 13, 2009 11:23 AM

Christianne O'Malley

Dickson Realty - Reno, NV

Exceptional Service - Delivering Results in Reno!

I feel that when you curse or use profanity all you are doing is cheapening your own reputation. You won't find me type it...let's put it that way. I don't want to read it and don't think ActiveRain is the place for that stuff...call me a prude, but I vote NO.

Apr 13, 2009 11:54 AM

Renée Donohue~Home Photography

Savvy Home Pix - Allegan, MI

Western Michigan Real Estate Photographer

I don't need freakity TOS. My mother is on facebook and she majorly schooled me about a picture I posted yesterday that was a little "racey" to her standards

Apr 13, 2009 04:01 PM

C Tann-Starr

Tann Starr & Associates, Inc. - Palm Bay, FL

LOL @ Renee. TOO FUNNY! ;-0

I have a few friends with their Mommies on FB. It has certainly made our lives very interesting. I mostly post pics of the kids and from my turtle runs or Outside minion Blog Report. It's fun writing on each others walls, but once in a while a relative will give you a "what for" dressing down (LOL). I got mine for playing a vampire game (four pastors in the family). Seems it auto posts what you do so I promptly stopped playing that and Mafia Wars. I do like Yoville and Sorority (LOL).

Apr 14, 2009 01:26 AM

Maureen McCabe

HER Realtors - Columbus, OH

Columbus Ohio Real Estate

I am real interested in this topic... I had a member in my market take exception to a word I was using in a Members Only post... and leave a comment there chastising me for the word, a quote of line from a TV show. He said in the comment he did NOT read the post. That comment was part of a pattern of continued harassment.

Eventually he lost 2000 AR points, had to take down a derogatory post and he may have gotten the 2 week suspension, but I am not sure of that. He left for months but is back. :- (

Apr 14, 2009 01:33 AM

Lane Bailey

Century 21 Results Realty - Suwanee, GA

Realtor & Car Guy

Why is it I never know the specific post everyone else seems to be talking about?

Apr 14, 2009 03:06 PM

C. Bartch

Newark, OH

So if I comment on a post w/ profanity in it does that mean I'm sitting around the bar drinking w/ bums? What if I read the post and I don't comment? Does that mean I just had sip of drink but spit it out?

Whether a bum or poster chooses to use profanity, I like I have a choice read to not read.

Apr 15, 2009 01:58 AM

Paul Slaybaugh

Homesmart - Scottsdale, AZ

Scottsdale, AZ Real Estate

New poll: Should Active|Rain ban posts about profanity?

Apr 17, 2009 07:36 AM

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