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Sorry to spoil the party, but we're not at the bottom!

By
Services for Real Estate Pros with Zillow

 

There's an interesting thread in Zillow Advice right now discussing whether we're at a bottom in the housing market. And the discussion is very timely because today Zillow released its 1st Quarter Home Value Report, detailing what is happening to home values in 161 cities. It's by far the most comprehensive report about the housing market in terms of its breadth and depth. True, individual Zestimates have their issues (more about Zestimate accuracy), but the Zillow Home Value Index is very reliable because it has enough aggregated data to wash away inaccurate Zestimates -- in other words, statistically speaking, for every Zestimate that's too low, there's another one that's equally too high, so the ZHVI is highly reliable.

So, what does the data say?

First a reminder about methodology. Zillow's reports speak to the value of almost every single home in the country, not just those that sold in the period. This is a very improtant distinction, especially in the current market environment in which less expensive homes have become a much bigger part of the market than traditionally. As a result, data that reports on median sales price (e.g., NAR's data) is very unreliable and dramatically overstates the level of decline to the typical homeowner. I previously discussed the unreliability of median sale price here.

OK, here are the highlights -- er, the lowlights, I mean:

  • the USA ZHVI (the median value of almost every home in America) declined 14.2% in 1Q09 versus 1Q08, the 9th straight declining quarter
  • Americans lost about $700 billion in home values in the 1st quarter alone
  • 1 in 5 American homeowners (20.4 million homes) are now underwater on their mortgage

 

Was there any good news?

  • A few markets were bright spots, including Fayettville NC (military bases) Oklahoma City (solid local economy) actually gained in value
  • Some markets that have been very hard hit (e.g., Los Angeles and San Diego) are no longer increasing in the rate of decline. In other words, although home values are still declining there, they're not declining any faster than they already had been declining. So things are still bad, and getting worse, but not getting more worse. I guess that passes for "good news" nowadays.

And now for the really bad news:

  • There is a massive amount of "shadow inventory" waiting to come online. Specifically, 12% of homeowners say they're "very likely" to put their home on the market if there was evidence that the market was turning around. Another 8% were "likely" and another 12% were "somewhat likely". In short, there might be another ~20 million homes waiting in the wings to come onto the market as we see signs of a recovery. When asked what "sign of recovery" they needed, 71% said "increasing home sales in my neighborhood". That's a massive amount of potential new listings, when considering our current ~4 million listings. To be fair, some of the current 4 million would have been sold before those new sellers come on the market. But the point is the same: as I said in Forbes, this is going to be an L-shaped recovery. New listings are going to come onto the market rapidly as soon as people believe we've bottomed, and the new listings will sop up what little new demand there is.

Sorry to be a party-pooper. I'm not going to spin things overly positively or overly negatively. I'm just calling it like I see it.

 

 

Links:

Zillow Home Value Reports media room

Master spreadsheet for the USA

Find all 161 cities here

Stan Humphries' (Zillow's head of analytics) post on Zillowblog

 

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Jim Norbuta
RE/MAX Traditions (Cleveland, Ohio) - Chagrin Falls, OH

Jonathon & Benjamin

Spencer,

Great information.  Can anyone tell me why we didn't get the $15,000 incentive for all home buyers, instead of this $8,000 for first time buyers?

Many Blessings,

Jim

PS.  Thought you'd enjoy seeing my grandsons, Jonathon and Benjamin instead of my mug.

May 06, 2009 02:36 PM
Spencer Rascoff
Zillow - Seattle, WA

 

Mark, you asked about the methodology on my negative equity statistic. Basically we look at the Zestimate for almost every home in America right now and we compare that with the amount of the originating mortgage(s) at the time of purchase. We assume that no new debt was put on the house, and that no principal was paid down -- both of these are pretty standard assumptions for companies that calculate this sort of thing. We arrive at ~ 1 in 5 homeowners with negative equity (including those without a mortgage -- it's even worse for those with a mortgage, obviously) or about 20 million homes.

 

Jim, you asked why the $15K tax credit didn't make its way into the final stimulus bill. Simple politics. It actually really surprised pundits because it looked like it was in until late in the negotiations. I expected it to be in there at the end, but it didn't happen. I haven't seen a good recounting of why it didn't get through. Maybe we should ask NAR! ;)

May 06, 2009 03:25 PM
Spencer Rascoff
Zillow - Seattle, WA

Let me try to clarify my perspective on the current housing situation. I was trying to make three points in my media interviews today.

First, Zillow's data (and my opinion) is that home prices have further to fall in almost every major city, and certainly at the national aggregate level. Home values will decline from today's levels because of new foreclosures and short sales, as well as an inventory glut from homes already on the market. New job losses will also contribute. Additionally, there are still a lot of ARM resets coming (I don't recall the specific number) which will create a whole new group of distressed sellers, unable to cover their mortgage obligations and unable to refi because of negative equity.

Second, Zillow's data shows a significant amount of homeowners have negative equity -- about 20 million homes, or about 1 in 5. Six months ago it was 1 in 7 homeowners that had negative equity. As you know, negative equity is a serious issue for a homeowner because they can't refi with negative equity, and they can't draw down from a HELOC which means they can't fuel personal consumption off of their equity. Third, there is a massive amount of "shadow inventory" waiting in the wings, which will come online as new listings when the housing market starts to turn. Conservatively, there are about 20 million homeowners who are basically waiting to list their home. About 1/3 of homeowners say they're at least "somewhat likely" to list their home in the next 12 months if they see "an improvement in the housing market". Using that 1/3 number would get us in the 30 million range, so I'm being conservative when I say about 20 million. As you probably know, there are about 4 million homes for sale now. The reason this "shadow inventory" matters a lot for all of us is that it will stall a recovery, because new listings will come on the market to sop up any new demand that comes. As a result, we'll see an "L-shaped" recovery, rather than a "V-shaped" recovery.

OK, so now that I've thoroughly depressed all of you....

First, what advice would I give to owners? Refi if you can, and don't sell if you don't have to.

To renters and first-time-homebuyers? Buy! Even though this probably isn't the bottom of the market, if you're going to stay in your home for a few years it doesn't matter that much. And timing the bottom precisely is impossible anyway. So take advantage of the huge amount of inventory, the low prices, the attractive financing, and the government subsidy of your first time home purchase.

To sellers: if you want to sell your home, price it correctly (which is probably lower than you'd like).

And finally, to real estate agents: Homeowners, buyers and sellers are terrified in the current environment. They need your help more than ever -- you're like a doctor to them in the midst of a health care epidemic. Educate, console, counsel, and you'll be invaluable to your clients. And of course, most of all, remember to market yourselves online because that's where your clients are.

May 06, 2009 03:32 PM
Lee Ali
Las Americas Real Estate - Fairfield, CT

Spencer: Zillow and Craigslist will change the face of buy-side real estate as we know it. You guys give way dang much information to the buyers. Scary indeed. No wonder Realtors "love" Zillow so much. :) I am not too sure about Zillow Mortgage Marketplace, but hey who am I to say what is good for a company with overheads.

By the way, I did not realize that you guys created a graph for what I have been teaching my clients for months now. LOL!

Your chart is going to provide me with a third-party validation. Well, actually my clients will think that I ripped it off of Zillow. But that is fine by me. Whatever works. ;)

May 06, 2009 04:04 PM
Spencer Rascoff
Zillow - Seattle, WA

Lee, More data and graphs than you'd ever want can be found here. Click on the little graph icons next to each city name.

May 06, 2009 04:20 PM
Lee Ali
Las Americas Real Estate - Fairfield, CT

Spencer. Thanks. No wonder sell-side Realtors "love" you guys so much. Hey, put me in the Zillow fan club. ;)

May 06, 2009 05:41 PM
Mark Watterson
Salt Lake City, UT
Utah Real Estate

I enjoy watching National and Regional treads but real estate is local.  Even differs by zip code.

I'm by no means calling a bottom in our market and will not until the data confirms the bottom.  By then we will be on the way up and those waiting for the bottom will have missed it. 

We are seeing bottoming signs.  If they continue we will have a bottom in the next three month.  If they fail, it will be longer.  No one knows where the exact bottom will be or when.  Those who don't have risk tolerence should not buy now.

Those who catch the bottom (mostly by accident) will feel like geniuses.

May 07, 2009 01:28 AM
Maureen McCabe
HER Realtors - Columbus, OH
Columbus Ohio Real Estate

Mark Watterson wrote:

"I enjoy watching National and Regional treads but real estate is local.  Even differs by zip code."

Real estate differs within a ZIP code....

May 07, 2009 01:36 AM
Home Loan Search.Online
Home Loan Search Online - Newnan, GA

This post has certainly allowed for a great discussion. I just don't see the benefit of national housing news when we all understand that real estate is local.

I would much rather see a post about Spencer's last link.

May 07, 2009 02:31 AM
Patricia Aulson
BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY HOME SERVICES Verani Realty NH Real Estate - Exeter, NH
Realtor - Portsmouth NH Homes-Hampton NH Homes

I couldn't agree with you more.  Thanks for the great post today and getting it out there. Reality is tough isn't it! We've got a long way to go yet.....

Patricia Aulson/Portsmouth NH Real Estate

May 07, 2009 03:09 AM
Lane Bailey
Century 21 Results Realty - Suwanee, GA
Realtor & Car Guy

I think there certainly is a place for national trend monitoring... but I don't think enough is said about how the national trend doesn't actually apply to any specific place... 

And when are you guys going to put your error data ON Zestimates instead of making it cryptic and a click or three away?

May 07, 2009 03:49 AM
Spencer Rascoff
Zillow - Seattle, WA

Lane, you wrote "And when are you guys going to put your error data ON Zestimates instead of making it cryptic and a click or three away?" Well if we knew the error rate on a specific Zestimate, we'd just adjust the Zestimate so the error was zero!!

We only know the error rate on a Zestimate once the home sells, and we do show that on the home details page. For example, here's a home in my neighborhood which just sold for $1.475M. The current Zestimate is $1,466,500 (as of 5/6 -- remember, we do Zestimates 3x per week). Click on the "Zestimate & Charts" section on the left side of the page and it will take you here.Notice that the previous sales of the home are shown on the graph so you can see what the Zestimate accuracy (the line in the graph) was at the time of each sale. In this home's case, it looks like the Zestimate was very accurate at the time of the 2/27/09 sale but our Zestimate was way too high at the time of the 2005 sale.

 

May 07, 2009 04:17 AM
Lee Ali
Las Americas Real Estate - Fairfield, CT

Spencer, thanks for the explanation.

Currently, I use Zestimate for trends and historical data only, so that works very well for me. In my book, I have used a few snap-shots from Zillow of the properties I have been involved in, in the past.

A hope that they fall into the "Fair Use" provision of copyright. :)

May 07, 2009 09:33 AM
Lane Bailey
Century 21 Results Realty - Suwanee, GA
Realtor & Car Guy

This is lifted straight from Zillow's accuracy.  For the Atlanta MSA, you are within 5% once out fo 4 times... So, are you telling people that the just gave them a $400,000 valuation, and they have a 25% chance of the house being worth $380k to $420k?  And a 10% chance of it being worth either $$360k to $380k or $420k to $440k?  Or that there is a 10.5% chance of it being worth either $320k to $360k or $440k to $480k?  Or a 34% chance that it is worth less than $320k or more than $480k? 

Maybe you will let them know that about half of the time your $400,000 valuation is worth $446,400 or $353,600... since the median error is 11.6%

The thing is that the Zestimate could rise or fall by a significant percentage and still be within the range of error..

Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA MSA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

99%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

99%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

25%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

45%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

66%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

11.6%

May 08, 2009 03:54 PM
Sarah Eubanks
Hill Valley Financial Services - Oregon City, OR
Preferred Oregon Loan Consultant & Notary Public

Spencer...It is always better to be open about the results.  I am sure that you would be okay being "wrong" if it meant a bettereconomy for everyone.  But your integrity should be #1 on the list.  :)

May 11, 2009 08:18 AM
Elaine Giamona
McCoy Real Estate and Property Management, Lincoln, CA - Lincoln, CA
Broker

Spencer, thanks for the data.  I appreciate the various dialogues and commentaries, just as much as your blog.  Hot topic, and some great feedback, opinions.  I love AR.  Elaine in Lincoln, CA

May 13, 2009 04:56 PM
Sabrina Kelley
ERA Herman Group Real Estate - Woodland Park, CO
Woodland Park Colorado Mountain Homes and Land

Real Estate is local. Some national trend data from Zillow persuaded my seller to up the price on a lot.

I love Zillow really but I hate it when the consumer thinks they are an expert after one or two sessions. I will give it a couple of weeks before the seller and I will have to have a more reasonable conversation.

 

May 13, 2009 07:54 PM
Marie Ogle
Mortgage Processing Solutions - Spokane, WA
Contract Mortgage Processor

And here I was sure we were on the way back up but still feeling the "whiplash" effects.  How depressing indeed.  I was feeling lucky that I had managed to survive this far.  I am not confident that I will survive much longer, especially if we have not yet hit the bottom knowing we will continue to feel the effects long after we start bouncing back.

Jun 16, 2009 05:24 AM
Anonymous
Space_Acer

"OK, so now that I've thoroughly depressed all of you...."

Not at all. The market is just heading back to long term fundementals.

 

Jun 18, 2009 05:18 PM
#71
Anonymous
Space_Acer

"Will there every truly be a bottom?"

 

Pre-bubble prices say back in 1997 for many on the two coasts plus inflation for the past 10 years which is around 35%.

That is the bottom! You can read about that in Robert Shillers 'Irrational Exuberance 2nd edition'. 

Jun 18, 2009 05:21 PM
#72