Don't make "P.I." Broker Bryant take you down!

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Don't make "P.I." Broker Bryant take you down!

Yesterday afternoon, I received a call from a Buyer who was in front of one my listings. I spoke to them briefly and made an appointment to show them the house today at 11:00. Well, later last night, I got a call from a Mortgage Broker who had the Buyers connected in on a conference call. He proceeded to tell my about his Buyers and how they had seen a house they were interested in but he wanted to know how much the house would appraise for.

He went on to say how he was also a Real Estate Broker and he works with Lenders that do not have to have seasoned funds, so as long as the house appraised for high enough, his Buyers could do a no money down deal. Hmm.....Now this of course sounds a little fraudulent to me. So I ask him, "How they do that?"

Well, according to this thief...Oops...I mean Mortgage Broker/Real Estate Broker, the Lenders he works with, will loan these Buyers 80% of the appraised value so the purchase price just needs to be 80% lower than that. I played dumb, so he explained to me, "That if the house would appraise for $220,000 we could still NET the Seller $176,000. Of course the Seller would have to contribute 6% towards the Buyer's closing costs out of that amount". My excitement mounted.

"Wow" I said "You mean we can write a deal at $220,000 and my Seller will get about $165,000 before they pay commissions and their other related costs?" "Now, can you explain to me why this is not mortgage fraud and a federal offense?"

His answer was "I do this all the time and the Lender doesn't care." Well, being the good little Broker that I am, I told him that he is suggesting to me that we commit loan fraud and he is telling me he does this all the time. So, I politely asked him which licensing authority he would suggest I contact first, to report this felony to. Can you believe he hung up on me? The nerve of some people. The Buyers were on this conference call with us so I wonder if they have been enlightened? I doubt it.

On a related matter, this got me thinking today, when I was doing my daily MLS Hot sheet study. I saw a house listed at $217,000 that closed yesterday at $167,000. Damn that's low, so I decided to do a little more research on it. This property was listed at $177,000. The day it went pending the list price was changed to $217,000. Then 3 weeks later it closed at $167,000(according to the MLS). Does that sound fishy to you? Does it sound like an inflated purchase price to cover a "down payment"? It does to me.

Folks, desperate Sellers and desperate REALTORS® create prime hunting ground for scammers. Please study up and learn how to recognize fraud in all it's ugliness. If you participate in these types of transactions you may very well lose your livelihood and your freedom. So please be careful.

Don't make "P.I." Broker Bryant take you down. Do you know how to recognize fraud?

Here are some links to a few resources for you. I plan on keeping my license, how about you?

http://www.mortgagefraudblog.com/

http://www.fbi.gov/publications/financial/fcs_report052005/fcs_report052005.htm

http://www.flippingfrenzy.com/category/trial/

http://mortgagefraudforum.wordpress.com/

*** "P.I." Broker Bryant picture courtesy of Danny Smith

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Posted by Bryant Tutas Broker/REALTOR(R) Tutas Towne Realty, Inc on 05/24/2007 11:46 PM

Comments (84)

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84 Comments on Don't make "P.I." Broker Bryant take you down!

MAY

2007

Reserved Parking For "The Lovely Wife"...TLW...ROAR!

Blog Boy...

Fraud! Fraud! Fraud! Fraud! Fraud! Fraud! Fraud!

That's one fraud for every day of the week. Perhaps people need a little practice with that word.

Or how about this...Liar Liar...Pants on FIRE!

Need I say more? Thought not. NEXT :)

TLW...ROAR!

Yes I fully intend to keep my license and I plan on reading your references. Thanks for this information. What are these agents thinking?

Take em down BB! Go in with guns blazin :)

Bryant

You get 2 thumbs up from me on this post. Thanks for including a link to Mortgage Fraud Forum.

Thanks for the links. I have had some strange calls myself. Of course I won't need to use them in Illinois :)

Go get 'em P.I.

Thanks for sharing the links...very resourceful!!!

Bryant,.... I love it when he says that his lender doesn't care. lol Does his lender really know or the company that they sell this type of loan now. I thought you were going to go into the direction of this lender wanting your seller to hold a 2nd note. ... and then forgive this, which is fraudulent. And I know you have written a few posts on this.

I am also glad that the buyers were on the other side of this call. I would love to hear their thoughts. Good post.

jeff belonger

Bookmarked for later BB. Just wanted you to know I know there's a new one up and will get ya later! Gotta run.....WooHoo

Ed, You're welcome my friend. Fraud disgust me. I get these type of calls and offers weekly. Fraud is rampant in Poinciana Fl.

David, Thanks man. We know they would NEVER do fraud in Illinois:)

Lisa, I'm just going to sic TLW on them, BAM!! Got her a fraudster.

Ashley, Read and then read some more. Do a Google search. There's some great info and sites on there relating to fraud.

Hey Hun, Better load that 38. I might need ya:)

Hi BB,

There sure does seem to be some interesting stuff goin on in this "new" marketplace. We had a For Sale By Owner ask us if we could take our commission on the side. Hmmmm....Is that anything like Salad with Dressing on the side? I think not! Can't believe what people are doing or shall I say, "trying" to do!?????

BB, Your call from the Mortgage Broker was absolutely a carbon copy to a call I had a few months ago. Almost right down to the T. Even where he said I do this all the time.

I played dumb as well and asked him to email me the answer as I was busy driving and did not have a good grasp of what he was trying to do.

He not only emailed me he created an addendum with the fraudulent info included. When I received the email I called him and read his email back to him. When I completed reading I asked him if that was an accurate assessment of what he was trying to accomplish. He said Yes.

I said " I could not involve myself or my clients in that type of fraudulent activity " The Phone went silence for almost 2 minutes. Finally he said " I don't like those words "

I told him to stop doing it and he wouldn't have to hear them.

BB my Buyer was sitting there with him the whole time. After my call to him, the Buyer called my totally upset at me because I was trying to sabotage what they thought was a legitimate sales technique.

I emailed them a Letter that we had from Oregon State on loan fraud. That was the end of that conversation.

Bryant,

There are all sorts of con artists out there. This soft market probably attracts even more of them into action. Thanks for bringing issues like this up to our attention.

I love it when they get act like I'm the ignorant one for telling them I won't participate. KC has one of the highest incidences of mortgage fraud nationally and I've turned down plenty of opportunties --especially when selling investment property. I just smile sweetly and tell them that I don't look good in orange and I don't intend to wear it daily. Thanks for the links on fraud.

Great Post Bryant.

This type of information just may save a novice agent from getting involved in something very, very ugly.

As for me, I'm no a quest to find all of the GOOD reportage about agents and brokers that I can I'm just sick of the bad press, the bad TV shows and the bad REALTOR lawsuits.

I'm posting GOOD news.

My broker (also a lawyer) asked me to print out 28 sold listings for him today because mortgage fraud has hit one neighborhood here really hard. Why it's in one neighborhood, I have no idea. But one agent (not with us, thankfully) is involved up to her eyeballs. I find it hard to feel sorry for her, I think she's probably earned what she has coming!

It is going to happen more and more. Steering clear of it will help us stand out when the poopoo hits the fan.

Bryant, the sad thing is that he will find others that will say yes to this, and not ask any questions.

BB,

I'm on the floor in tears.....Well, according to this thief...Oops...

All time classic...I think something simular hasppend to me in a deal a few years ago...does sound very fishy..too good to be true.

BB, we have special FBI's in MI. because it has happened so often. No sale is worth it, you handled it perfectly.

BB....I got your back! Yeah..that's me sniping out those bad guys!

WooHoo!

Woo Hoo....Not to worry I have it covered. See...LOL...

Or...I can use the .38 for this one :)

TLW...ROAR!

Bryan,

Your wife is sturdding!

She got it right 7 timens!

You know the guy is right. His lender proably doesn't care.

This could close, it's not until the lender sells it that you, the Buyer, The Seller, The Titkle people, and the crook are at risk! There will be nothing in the file to show that the lender didn't care, the rest of you will go down for conspirecy.

Seems to me I read something about the dangers of wearing two hats.

Bill

BB - I am assuming you did not keep the appointment today!! I'm not putting my license on the line for some underhanded loan officer. I doubt the lender knows any of this. I have seen these, not where they reduce the price after the fact, but where the price is increased about the same time the property is pended. Makes you wonder????

Hey everyone, You guys are rolling in too fast. I can't keep up. BUT you know I love ya!!!!

My biggest issue with this is many many REALTORS(R) do not know this is fraudulent. That's why it works. I have had many offers presented to me that were written with fraudulent terms and the REALTORS(R) when I called them on it genuinely did not know it was fraud. Fraud is one class we should all be required to take.

As always thanks for reading and adding to the conversation.

Bryant, I should have placed a machine gun in that pic above for this article!

BB, forget the 38 as suggested by the TLW, go with a Cannon. I am sick of this type of fraud, and this is the reason us lenders are being looked at as crooks, etc. I have been in this profession way to long and have seen it all. This is the type of lending I have been talking about for years now, stating my position that banks are going to someday eat these loans, and guess what? They are eating full lunches everyday, the foreclosure rate is still climbing due to this type of fraudulent loans. Thanks, and keep up the good work, next time ask to talk to the clients one on one before the nut case hangs up on you. If all else fails, do take my advice, use a cannon.

Okay...the kitty bit the dust when TLW rolled in...I laugh! Thanks for the chuckle...everyone in the office is wondering what I'm chuckling about....do I dare tell...heck no! It's all mine....the chuckle for the day. Anyway, I think the majority of us feel the same...weed em out....weed em all out!

Broker Bryant- FINALLY! right now I am comment 26 who knows by the time I am finished commenting.

I did a brief stint as a loan officer and ran my own mortgage company. Biggest mistake I ever made BUT I learned so much. I think real estate agents need to be better versed in the mortgage process. I think it is crazy for real estate agents not to really understand the mortgage process or title process. The contracts and listings are just a small part of the equation, I want to be able to hold my own in anything I do! I would think as professionals you would at least have basic understanding of the entire process!

I personally know a title person who was placed on house arrest for taking part in transactions that was fraudulent, all he did was the closings, the lawyer, jail time, Realtor - jail time, mortgage person-jail time. I say Realtors be careful, watch the company you keep! Great post!

What is scary is someone else - i.e. the lender will tell them it is not fraud - now you lenders that are respectable I am not talking about you - the ones that think they can do anything they want

It really should make honest people angry that this stuff goes on. Thanks for the links.

Broker Bryant,

This kind of stuff was still going on in our area a couple years ago. The brakes finally hit (of maybe the people are now behind bars).

Nasty Stuff!

Lucky :)

Hi Bryant, I had the same thing happen a few years ago. The seller didn't believe me so I drove her down to the the LO's office for him explain it. He drew it out on paper how this would work. (I like to play dumb so people make complete A$#$$ out of themselves) and my seller was floored. I then asked him how it was legal.

"I do this everyday. This is completely legal." With a straight face I might add. So I grabbed the paper that he so politely drew out everything on and said "thanks, but no thanks" We argued..I'll save the details. BUT, I told him I would take the paper and fax it to the state authority. If they said it was Legal, we would get back with him.

The look on his face was priceless. That was Hilarious.

Bryant~

OK..first of all..you are doing an amazing job with-your costumes of late! AND..thank you so much for this post! I'm a land specialist and we are in a HOT Market here in Asheville, so I am learning from YOU...I hope I never have an experience as per the one you described...maybe if I wear a white hat and deal with horse farms, I won't!

These guys and their deals never seem to go away..here we sit in the middle of a major brouhaha on subprime loans and this fool is still out there pushing a fraudulent loan.. Beyond belief..

Wow! 33 comments in 10 minutes! You "Da Man"! And it was a good post!

Yeah, we have this crap in AZ too. One local Realtor does this regularly. I've heard she was turned in, but still see her signs. Maybe the wheels of justice turn VERY slow on this type of crimianl activity... This is Arizona, and we lke to say "get a rope!"

MAY

2007

I am trying to catch a realtor and his lender who do business in our area red handed. They have done so many people harm I don't know how they can sleep at night.

Exactomundo

We have two people here in Temecula/Murrieta CA that are being prosecuted for that very thing right now. Today in the paper it mentioned that there were 100 homes in two up-scaled neighborhoods that had gone into bankruptcy as a results of these. They were working these as investments----lots of investors went down.

Bryant,

Thanks for sharing. Not long ago (and hopefully not again) we had a series of offers floating around that offered sellers more than asking, up to $100,000 more. The offer also included a credit of $60,000+ to a third party (supposedly to a home improvement co.) the offer also included credits for closing costs and increased commission. No sooner did I have another agent ask me if I've heard of such a thing (no in my case) and within 20 minutes later, I had such an offer on my desk.

Now keep in mind, offering $100,000+ to a seller sounds pretty inviting, right? Fortunately for me, my seller's agreed with my counsel which was "didn't pass the smell test" and they said thanks but no thanks.

I haven't read all the comments yet but did you get his name and report him? That kind of garbage makes me so mad. I am so sick of fraudulent brokers and lenders doing that kind of business. Thank you for what you do Bryant, it means a lot to all of us. Nicely done!

Some great information, Bryant. Can't say I am real surprised given what all is going on out there. You handled it perfectly. Wonder how many deals he has been abel to sneak by?

Jeff

"Moral Hazard"..

You know the lenders SAY they wouldn't want this loan like this, but in reality if they really didn't they would have procedures in place to catch this type of fraud. They lenders WANT to lend as much money as possible, it isn't their money they are just taking a cut.

I know it is a cynical view, and sure to start an argument, but you see far too loose lending underwriting for it not to be true. The secondary market claims they didn't know about these bad loans... the lenders claim they aren't making them but someone else is...

This type of stuff that gets me going because it would literally take everyone to get the loan done, broker, realtors, seller, buyer, lender, appraiser...

Hey BB, I got a call like this a few weeks ago on one of my listings except the Buyer wasn't on the call, but the Buyer's Agent called me first and then had the Mortgage guy call me to explain the same type of scenario...saying they would have Appraiser appraise for "X" amt., bla, bla, bla....I dismissed him and said we weren't interested in having that offer submitted (and they were VERY pushy about it on the phone more than once). What a shame....

You handled this perfectly!

Sally and TLW...love the pics!

Great post. Last year I had a similar thing happen without being long winded. Low ball offer, cash deal, desparate seller, I advised no, he said yes. 14 day close, on the lasy inspection period day, buyers agent calls and states the buyer wants me ro raise the list price 150,000. Further states that he wants a new COE date 39 more days. You can figure out the rest. At least I got the seller the earnest money.

Great post!

BB - we have A LOT of those fishy closings here in Miami....they are all over, and the same agents do them. As for that guy hanging up on youl......THE NERVE!! : )

Great reminder to look out for fraud as we begin a period of desperate sellers. Thanks for the head's up.

This kind of thing, and then see the post by Beth Butler, is just too crazy. I don't understand how this can keep happening. Why isn't there some kind of government agency after these people? How hard would it be to catch them? They seem to do it right out in the open, obviously not concerned about being caught. 'I do this all the time, the lender doesn't care' ?? Does that mean after so many times it becomes legal by default? GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

BTW, Agents Kitty & TLW, you may need to do some recruiting, this job is way bigger than the two of you !!

yup, get a rope, too.

Well Bryant, I got here so late that everyone has already said it all. Thanks for the info just the same. Do you turn these people in, or how does the law catch up with them?

BB - you cyphened my next post right out of my head (LOL)! this exact thing happened to me this week and I told everyone involved - I don't look good in orange jumpsuits with numbers on the back (LOL) - Grrrrrrrrrrrr!! I hate liars, thiefs and snakes - I say bring out the machete - or just let you take em down!!

P.S. Getting lots of showings in Dunedin :-)

They not only want to commit fraud they want to drag you and your client in with them.

I can't eat my dinner after reading this...fraud leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Hey PIBB, can you find my sellers?

You know, I always get suspicious if a mortgage broker has to say, "No, no. Let me explain this to you." "Let me tell you how this works."

That should be a flag right there! We all have to be careful though because it seems like there are new ways to commit fraud every other day, these days. It is scary that these are pretty bright people coming up with these schemes. Some of them seem quite detailed and intensive in order to make them work.

If I have any questions about any of it, I ask my BIC. If there are questions then there are probably answers that you don't want to hear!

King Bryant: as a fairly new agent, I really appreciate your bringing this kind of stuff to my attention. I like being warned about what's in the pond that can bite me. (And it seems they are everywhere). Thanks.

BB,

Yippee!!

200,000 Points!!!

It happened over night!!!

Congratulations!!! It just seems like a few months ago you were at 50,000!!!

Lucky :)

Hi Broker Bryant,

As ALWAYS, you've written a fabulous post. Guess the thiefs are still out there. How sad.

Please bring that gun down my way, with extra bullets please. This post goes in my mortgage fraud file, which is starting to look like a file cabinet.... I love the non- seasoned funds - its a fresh approach.

My goodness!!! I wake up this morning and BAM!! mucho commentos!! When I read through these comments it amazes me how many of us have had to deal with this and how common it is. What's even worse is I expected that kind of a response. I hear about this kind of stuff weekly. I've never kept track but I would guess more than half of the offers or deals I do have some fraud involved on the mortgage side. It's everywhere, it's right out in the open and the chance of getting punished for it it minuscule.

Hey Lucky thanks for pointing out the 200,000 points thingie. I knew I was close but I hadn't checked. I really need to get a life:)

Blog Boy if you were a car I would have to trade you in. SVW (smiling very wide)

TLW...ROARING :)

*Photo...Courtesy of Qai's Dad, Arnel At Flickr

The next thing you will be saying is that we can no longer refer to that rundown house as cute and charming - where will it all end?

what is sad, is the fact that the mls data could be changed like that. lenders are supposed to be able to go back in and see the old list price.....

Bryant, let me know if you have any problems locating the right licensing authority to report this turkey

Bryant, you're going to need the Ferrari if you're planning on a new career in "PI" work...

Unsuspecting buyers are going to get sucked into the nasty realm of mortgage fraud and not even know it because of mortgage brokers like this. I know that he represents like one percent of all mortgage guys, but he's still going to cause some damage.

UNBELIEVABLE!! No matter there is a reputation problem in this industry. I'm glad you took a stand. I hear horror stories all the time from my clients and I am out to change that.

Amanda

Great post!! In Michigan's rough market, there has been a lot of "creative financing". I love how the shady loan officers think us Realtors don't know anything about the mortgage side. I like to play dumb too and see what they have to say. I spent over 10 years in the mortgage business so I like when they use terms incorrectly. Or say "let me show you" or "I do it all the time". That just proves that my client's shouldn't do business with them! There are several mortgage professionals I trust and I always recommend they get a second-opinion from them if they come to me with a different pre-approval. It just saved one of my clients $4,500 in closing costs!

The sad part about it all is these loan officers come across like they are helping these people get into a home. Don't they realize that even in 5 years the buyers will still owe more than their home is really worth? That's how the foreclosure rate goes up, or sellers dump the house they can't afford and create the slope of decreasing values.

You're right, there should be required classes on fraud and required classes on the snowball effect of bad decisions. I wish every agent knew how to counsel their clients before letting them buy..

BTW - there are some good loan officers out there. You know them when you do business with them :-)

More great comments. Thanks. I get so tired of dealing with this crap. Some of the deals I see that come across my desk are unbelievable!!! I really feel for the REALTORS(R) that don't know any better and fall for it. Could you imagine standing in front of the judge explaining how you, as a licensed professional, allowed your client/customer to commit fraud because you didn't know any better? In my opinion there is no excuse for ignorance when it comes to fraud. It is our duty as REALTORS(R) to protect the public.

Excellent post. I have yet to encounter anything like this, but I have been only registered for 8 months. Thanks for the links, it is good to know what to look for before it finds me.

Hi Bryant -

Excellent post! I can understand your getting tired of this stuff! I have to say, your head gets around on alot of interesting photos. I'm not sure which part I like better . . . seeing what your next picture will be or you next topic. Thanks for keeping life interesting and informative! You and TLW have got to be a fun couple to be around!

"BB" Excellent, this opportuntiy (sic) was given to me on a few occassions. I attempted to explain that this may (I was presuming innocence) Bank Fraud. as the lecture began I relized that this individual clearly knew what they were doing. We did not do business. Realtors need to understand that getting involved in these types of dealings..gets you involved...your committing a crime!

Way to go "BB"

Gary

Amen. What else is there to say? Just, amen.

I don't understand what makes people think that this is OK. Trying to scam every poor person that they come into contact with. They should be hung out to dry.

Unbelieveable. There is NO field safe from crooks. Good thing you know your stuff, Bryant! :)

NICE! I love it!

MAY

2007

I just love the way you have so many costume changes.

Good morning folks. Thanks for stopping by. ALWAYS appreciated

Bryant. You're going to make me subscribe to you in order to keep up with all these mortgage broker bashing posts! (Said with all the love in the world, of course) Anyway, this can be a legitimate program. I always thought that it was a scam because the "agency" that funds these deals ends up making a couple or three points on the deal. That said, I did one that actually worked out well for everybody.

This couple was on the verge of losing their home. They had a decent equity position, but had waited to long to try and sell the property at retail. This agent wrote one of these contracts on the listing. The seller paid the "agency" the 6% concession plus a fee of something like 1 percent or something. The buyer paid them a fee to participate, something like $495.00. So, the "agency" earned something like $1500.00 or something close.

The sellers didn't get quite what they wanted, but the buyer closed before the foreclosure.

It's not load fraud as long as the "agency" is a recognized not for profit corporation and all of the terms of the transaction are disclosed to all parties. Some of these companies make me wonder how legit they are, but if Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac is cool with them, so am I.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList

Bob, You are referring to a down payment assistance program where the seller contributes to a non-profit organization that then gifts the funds to the buyer. Usually these are tied in with FHA. I actually just closed one last month. The deal I am writing about was NOT that. This deal was 100% fraudulent. They were wanting to "pretend" that the seller was holding a second mortgage. can't do that.

BTW at least this time I did say he was a Mortgage broker AND a RE Broker:). No bashing, just the facts as they were presented to me.

Thank you for sharing and for the links! Great info.

MAY

2007

Bryant--I had a similar conversation with a new agent who suggested something like this last summer. When I told her she was suggesting FRAUD she was very concerned as this was her second deal through this loan officer just like this. At least the weasel that called you wasn't trying to suck an innocent new agent into his deal...OK, he was trying to pull a seller's agent in but you know what I mean. This can ruin your life and business! Thanks for posting this---Again!!

star

Teri, Unfortunately there are many new agents that get used in these transaction. They truly don't realize its fraudulent. We need to teach them.

MAY

2007

Hey Bryant,

This is happening everywhere and the catch is the mortgage brokers package the fraud in away where consumers don't always catch the FRAUD

JUN

2007

That is crazy. It looks like they can only get 80% financing so they are inflating the price to cover the extra 20%. The Title Company would be commitiing fraud also if they allow this to happen. The 20% would still have to be provided at closing. If it is subprime you might be able to get away with it if there is no source-seasoning requirement.Wow. I am sure it took a while for someone to think this scheme up.

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Bryant Tutas Broker/REALTOR(R) Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Poinciana, FL

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Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

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