Shane, this was written in 2005, technology changes ALL the time. It just needs to be dropped to fit the times.

Maureen, it is complicated as most agents probably don't get it. Since  you have read it I'm not going to go into anymore details here. It helped me a lot reading Morgans post and dialogue as well as following the links.

Wayne, I know you have I've read your comments, trying to get more Realtors here to know the issue and implications.

Barry, ditto another issue however.

Ken, only being supportive of the folks on the front line.

First of all I am supportive of NAR as my trade association. I think the small amount of money we pay is fine. They do many good things for us. I am also in favor of and supportive of my own board and the Michigan Association of Realtors.

I personally do not have the same negative feelings for NAR. My only complaint over the years has been with Realtor.com and how that was handle and is handled today. BUT that is not what this post is about, that is for another day.

That being said...the policy written in 2005 and interpreted to Paula's board in Indianapolis is just out dated and is wrong. It needs to be changed so they we can compete on an even playing field  with the BIG Boys.

Dave, the policy does include all search engines indexing and not just Google.

Katerina, Google is not going to sell the leads back to us.

Their model is ad words, that is their revenue generating model. When those of us that buy Ad Words to have a sponsored link that is how they make money.

Since Google is a billion dollar corporation, making money from folks like me (for paid search) why would they go the individual lead route?  Doesn't make sense.

They want to give the best search results for what a consumer in industry is looking for.

You have to be a member of NAR to get into the .org site. Here is the position on IDX sites.I have highlighted below the Section in Question and how it was interpreted for Paula and her board in Indianapolis. #2 in the SEC below.

Associations of REALTORS® and their Multiple Listing Services must enable MLS Participants to display on Participants' public websites aggregated MLS active listing information subject to the requirements of state law and regulation. To comply with this requirement MLSs must, if requested by a Participant, promptly provide basic downloading of all current listings and may not exclude any listings from the informaiton which can be downlaoded or displayed under IDX except those listings for which a Participant has withheld concent. Associations and MLSs can also offer alternative display options including framing of Board, MLS, or other publicly-accessible sites displaying Participants' listings (with permission of the framed site). For purposes of this policy, "downloading" means electronic transmission of data from MLS servers to Participants' servers on a persistent or transient basis, at the discretion of the MLS excluding the listing or property address, respectively, of any seller who affirmatively directs that the listing or the property address not appear on the Internet or other electronic forms of display or distribution.

MLSs that allow persistent downloading of the MLS database by Participants for display or distribution on the Internet or by other electronic means may require that Participants (1) utilize appropriate security protection, such as firewalls, provided that any security obligations imposed on Participants may not be greater than those employed concurrently by the MLS, and/or (2) maintain an audit trail of consumer activity on the IDX site and make that information available to the MLS if the MLS has reason to believe that a Participant’s IDX site has caused or permitted a breach in the security of the data or a violation of MLS rules related to use by consumers. This policy does not require associations or MLSs to establish publicly accessible sites displaying Participants' listings.

Unless state law requires prior written consent from listing brokers, listing brokers' consent for IDX display may be presumed unless a listing broker affirmatively notifies the MLS that the listing broker refuses to permit display (either on a blanket or on a listing-by-listing basis). If a Participant refuses on a blanket basis to permit IDX display of that Participant's listings, then that Participant may not display the aggregated MLS data of other Participants on an IDX site.

Alternatively, MLSs may require that Participants’ consent for display of their listings by other Participants on IDX sites be affirmatively established in writing. Even where Participants have given blanket authority for other Participants to display their listings on IDX sites, such consent may be withdrawn on a listing-by-listing basis as instructed by the seller.

Access to MLS databases of current listing information, or any part of such databases, may not be provided to any person or entity not expressly authorized such access under the MLS rules.

Participants Internet Web sites may also provide other features, information, or services in addition to IDX information (including Virtual Office Website (“VOW”) functions) which are not subject to this policy.

Policies applicable to Participants’ IDX sites

1. Participants must notify the MLS of their intention to establish an IDX site and make their IDX site directly accessible to the MLS for purposes of monitoring/ensuring compliance with applicable rules and policies.

2. Participants must protect IDX information from misappropriation by employing reasonable efforts to monitor and prevent “scraping” or other unauthorized accessing, reproduction or use of the MLS database.

3. Listings or property addresses of sellers who have directed their listing brokers to withhold their listing or property address from display on the Internet (including, but not limited to, publicly-accessible Web sites or VOWs) shall not be accessible via IDX sites. Notwithstanding this prohibition, listing brokers may display on their IDX sites or their other Web site(s) the listing or property address of consenting sellers.

4. Participants may select the listings they choose to display on their IDX sites based only on objective criteria including, but not limited to, factors such as geography, or location ("uptown", "downtown", etc.), list price, type of property (e.g. condominiums, cooperatives, single family detached, multi-family), cooperative compensation offered by listing brokers, type of listing (e.g. exclusive right to sell, exclusive agency, or open listing), or the level of service provided by the listing firm. Selection of listings to be displayed on an IDX site must be independently made by each Participant.

5. Participants must refresh all MLS downloads and refresh all MLS data at least once every seven (7) days.

6. Except as provided elsewhere in this policy or elsewhere in an MLS’s rules and regulations, an IDX site or Participant operating an IDX site may not distribute, provide, or make any portion of the MLS database available to any person or entity.

7. When displaying listing content, a Participant's or User's IDX site must clearly identify the name of the brokerage firm under which they operate in a readily visible color and typeface.

Policies applicable to Multiple Listing Services

The following guidelines are recommended but not required to conform to National Association policy. Pursuant to these guidelines, MLSs may:

1. prohibit display of expired, withdrawn, or pending listings

2. prohibit display of confidential information fields intended for cooperating brokers rather than consumers including compensation offered to other MLS Participants, showing instructions, property security information, etc.

3. prohibit display of the type of listing agreement, e.g. exclusive right to sell, exclusive agency, etc.

4. prohibit display of seller’s(s’) and occupant’s(s’) name(s). phone number(s), and e-mail address(es)

5. require that any listing displayed identify the listing firm in a readily visible color and typeface not smaller than the median used in the display of listing data

6. require that the identity of listing agents be displayed

7. require that information displayed not be modified. MLS data may be augmented with additional data not otherwise prohibited from display so long as the source of the other data is clearly identified. This requirement does not restrict the format of MLS data display or display of fewer than all of the available listings or fewer authorized data fields.

8. require that any display of other Participants' listings indicate the source of the information being displayed

9. require that other brokers’ listings obtained from other sources, e.g., from other MLSs, from non-participating brokers, etc., display the source from which each such listing was obtained

10. require Participants to indicate on their websites that the information being provided is for consumers' personal, non-commercial use and may not be used for any purpose other than to identify prospective properties consumers may be interested in purchasing

11. establish reasonable limits on the amount of data/number of listings that consumers may retrieve or download in response to an inquiry

12. limit the right to display other Participants' listings to a Participant's office(s) holding participatory rights in the same MLS

13. require a notice on all MLS data displayed indicating that the data is deemed reliable but is not guaranteed accurate by the MLS. Participants’ IDX sites may also include other disclaimers necessary to protect the Participant and/or the MLS from liability

Additional local issues / options

1. Where MLS participatory rights are available to non-member brokers or firms as a matter of law or local determination, the right to display listing information pursuant to IDX may be limited, as a matter of local option, to Participants who are REALTORS®.

2. MLSs may, but are not required to, limit the right to display listing information available pursuant to IDX to MLS Participants licensed as real estate brokers.

3. MLSs may, but are not required to, limit the right to display listing information pursuant to IDX to MLS Participants engaged in real estate brokerage. This requirement can be met by maintaining an office or Internet presence from which Participants are available to represent real estate sellers or buyers (or both).

4. MLSs may, but are not required to, allow non-principal brokers and sales licensees affiliated with MLS Participants to use information available through IDX to populate their own websites.

Even if use of information through IDX is provided to non-principal brokers and sales licensees affiliated with MLS Participants, such use is subject to Participants' consent and control and the requirements of state law and/or regulation.

5. MLSs cannot prohibit Participants from downloading and displaying or framing other brokers' listings obtained from other sources, e.g., other MLSs, non-participating brokers, etc., but can, as a matter of local option, require that listings obtained through IDX be searched separately from listings obtained from other sources, including other MLSs.

6. MLSs may, as a matter of local option, charge the costs of adding or enhancing their "downloading" capacity to Participants who will download listing information. Assessment of such costs should reasonably relate to the actual costs incurred by the MLS. (Amended 11/02, 5/05, 5/06)

Lenn, do you want to go to the hearing? There is a get together the night before. I am trying to find a cheapo flight.

Elaine, I think that is part of the problem......a search engine doesn't know if it is a scraper site. I am sure your blog gets picked up by splogs too. Mine do.

I too had a client call me about a home they found on Trulia. I looked it up in MLS and it was expired but I called the agent anyway. She laughed and said, "oh I haven't had that listing for a year. Someone listed it after me."  That's why I tell clients to stop looking anywhere but my site. Direct feed, current information, if the listing agent posts it Pending it is gone.

Now with Short Sales that is not happening so unfortunately we still have to make those calls.

William, I added Chris's email address in the post, email him your thoughts. He responded back to me. He needs to hear from everyone.

Hans, I have a Point2 Professional site. It does not index by address. If you have a client doing that show me. Here is how it shows up on Google. The only two indexing my address are my blog posts.

Tim, a true IDX site MUST HAVE the Brokers information on it. Only the scraper sites do not. That is part of IDX rules adopted by NAR and accepted by the local boards.

Maureen, YOU GOT IT. I knew you would.

Tim this is who Movoto is http://www.movoto.com/aboutigen.aspx  They plainly say they are NOT a real estate company but work with top agents.

Now you and I both no that top agent means "The agent paying for the leads from their site"

So your listing, my address is driving traffic to this third party vendor, who will sell the lead.

Although I don't agree, it is their business model.

But, the fact of the matter is YOU, Tim Maitski should have the right to syndicate your own listings by address, mls number or what ever you want to do. You have and by you I mean WE, have abdicted our role to third party vendors and they are NOT Realtors and don't have to follow our MLS rules.

Now whether every agent will use their data that way is up to them, but for those of us that want to our hands are tired by an archaic rule and we have given away our listing to R dot c and the other 3rd Party Vendors.

Barry, I blog all my listings and they do come up on Page 1 from my activerain blog, my outside AR blog and my outside, outside blog .Example click here.

We are just advocating that Realtors those of us who market the listing should have the same ability as third party vendors do on indexing from our IDX's.

On thing I'd like to point out that I also pointed out on AG, where are the third party vendors. NOT ONE OF THEM has commented!

Answer that one, why are they quiet on this issue all across the blogosphere.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on that one.