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Condo Inspection (agents assistance)

Hi to all...I am find that a substantial percentage of my inspection business is coming from the condo market and believe it or not you guys are an extremely important part of my job.

I pride myself on going out of my way to do the best job possible which can sometimes cost me money (read as time consuming)

The reason is I do not as a whole usually charge for a go back.When I do an inspection I do not develope tunnel vision by only looking between the walls.This is important particularly in smaller unit buildings.

Please remember that roof and basement common area access can be important to completion of my duties,as when the roof leaks my client will be expected to cough up hard earned money to pay for repairs through assessments and would like to know the condition ahead of time.

Sometimes the compressor for the split HVAC system is located on the roof , so how can I inspect it with out seeing it.

When it comes down to the basement area at the very least I would like to see the main disconnect for his unit as the breakers in the apartment are really just a sub panel(ok remote distribution panel for all you NEC code purists out there).

I personally do not charge for the pain of going back and know that your time is also valuable to you,so please try and arrange for entry to these areas with the listing agent or unit owner on the top floor if necassary and neither one of us will need to spend the extra time and gas to get past this process.

Oh did I forget to mention the client will appreciate the exta effort too.

Thanks as I realize you to have a lot on the plate,so I hope this reminder will help us both.

Bob Elliott Chicago Property Inspection

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Posted by Bob Elliott (Chicago Property Inspection) on 05/25/2007 02:13 PM

Comments (24)

condo inspection, chicago condo inspection, condo inspector, chicago condo inspectors

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24 Comments on Condo Inspection (agents assistance)

MAY

2007

Great subject Bob and I totally agree. The condos common areas should definatly be inspected. A lot of inspectors zip through a condo by just inspecting the interior living areas but they're really not addressing all the areas the new owner will be responsible for. I also advise my clients to ask the association what maintenance items are scheduled to be replaced in the next 5 years. Sometimes they'll request a lump sum payment to be made by each owner to replace a roof or other expensive items that weren't budgeted for.

Another item I make sure to check is the attic space.

For fire safety each unit should have their own separate attic access and it should be totally separated from the adjoining condos by type X drywall. This should be installed all the way up to the roof sheathing with no openings. Sometimes insulation guys are lazy, rather than re-routing their hose (from blower) to the other attic when they are finished with one side, they punch a hole through the separation drywall and pass their hose through, so watch for any holes/openings. All seams should be sealed too.

Coodo's for doing such a great job on the Condo's

Thank you DJ...There are lots of issues that are different with condos,and with so many out there it is a subject on its own.

Lots of first time buyers go the condo route and I see nothing wrong in helping them with professional advice.

Simple things like reserve funds,special assessments,looking at board meeting minutes,etc are not always thought of.

Trying to provide a superior service is much more important than under pricing your competition.

Bob and DJ,

I totally agree that checking things like the roof and disconnects that may be located in areas remote to the actual unit are important. Sometimes getting information regarding scheduled repairs can be a little tricky if the HOA or management company is not cooperative, especially since you are a third party. But, if you can get the info, it's very useful to include in your report.

What about other "Common Area" issues that can reach into your client's wallet? Such as; Swimming pool/clubhouse areas, sidewalks, playgrounds, laundry rooms, parking lots, etc.?

-Steve

This is great !

Bob, thank you, and thanks for bringing this subject up.

I know that the more everyone learns about how important it is to inspect the common areas and mechanicals that will have a direct effect on the condo unit, the better for everyone involved.

When inspecting a condo unit one time, i noticed that in the parking garage, over the alloted parking space, the ceiling was damaged and could possibly fall off in chunks and damage the car. Not a huge deal but client was appreciative of the info.

On another condo Inspection, while checking into the attic space of the top floor unit (despite repeated affirmations that the unit did not need an inspection) I discovered , that there were not just one but three bathroom exhaust fan ducts venting directly INTO the attic and not OUT to the exterior. Prolonged moisture problems and the subsequent possibility of biological growths forming due to it would have had everyone in the building digging deep into their wallets to PREMATURELY replace the roof or wondering why they had developed respiratory problems since moving in. Now it can be corrected BEFORE it becomes a nightmare.

As you mentioned in the above post, much of the inspection of a condo unit will not actually be found within the walls of the unit. Some times the important stuff is behind a door that is locked and nobody knows who has the key... I always get more curious as to what is behind door number one!

Sure, it can be hard to get keys or otherwise assure access--there are problems with communication, coordination and cooperation but it's something that should be accomplished by zero hour so the inspection can be as complete as it should be. important areas should be readily accessible before the inspector arrives.

Once i was told that a homeless man sometimes slept in the boiler room. I asked if he was in and if HE would let me look at the boiler. He wasn't, it was locked, i never got to see the mechanicals, didn't get to do my job to my satisfaction or the clients. Lots of question marks.

I don't like to think that giving Inspectors access to those areas is purposefully avoided, or that it is commonly acceptable to deny and advise others to deny access to inspectors if there is a perceived threat to the sale. But I cant help but contemplate that thought --especially after i am not given access to the areas and systems that I had specifically asked to be given access to, in advance, when scheduling the Inspection of a condo.

No offense is intended, just the product of a series of frustrating coincidences.

Joseph Tribuzio

Hi Steve ..sorry if I gave you the impression that I was doing the actual research.

What I do is recommend that my client get a hold of these facts through their agent or realtor.

It is something that was suggested to me as being above what is expected ,but I will continue to do so.

It is easy to assume the buyer knows more about the transaction process than they do,but we are there learning things all the time so why not put that knowledge to use.

Hey Joe I see you made it to the promised land.

Hope you come to our local Nachi meeting.

The same day you called we had a discussion going on about the independant association you belong to on the forum at nachi.org

Joe I had to go back and reread that bit about the homeless guy.

If that door was locked I take it that somebody living there is letting him in.

Did the client buy anyway or scared by the homeless guy story?

Thank you Bob, glad to be here,

I'm interested to know what others feel , think or have experienced with the independent association.

I am planning to come to the June meeting , i'm exited about it. My wife is coming too.

Ah, the homeless guy --as it turned out, he was sneaking in for some time BEFORE they had installed a padlock.

I never saw him, just heard the story of him that kept me out of the room. The client was alarmed at first, but

ended up buying the place.

JUN

2007

Good article, Bob. Yeah, condos can be tricky concerning access to certain areas. I might add that I do look at exterior for issues related to energy efficiency, and inform the buyer accordingly. After all, in most cases, the energy bill is on them unless you have a chilled water or three pipe system for heat and air. This, thankfully, is rare, at least in these parts.

I've never had a roof access locked and down here you are not suppose to lock the electrical room. Also what are basements?

The one comment I love from Realtors , upon me finding a problem, "oh that's covered by the condo association." Hmm

Yeah..I had that one two weeks ago when the developers sales person looked me staight in the eye and made that very statement.

My response was that right now you are the association, and I would hold you responsible.

LOL!! You guys are exactly right! Lay it all off on the association. I would say to the buyer, "You might want to check with your association president for clarification."

Mitchell, what Bob is referring to as a basement, around here we call them tornado shelters, and where you are I believe they call them water wells!:-)

Speaking of associations, I had to call for a building superintendent, whose office was apparently somewhere else, to gain access to a roof. Glad I did. Over the condo I was inspecting, they had put down heavy rubber mats and roped in an area, complete with outdoor furniture and a portable bar. Only problem was, they covered the drains just adjacent to that 3rd floor condo, and pooling marks were evident. Wonder why that roof access was locked on that particular day?

JUN

2007

Thank You Your exactly right!

Locked electricals, locked attic access, locked basement/crawlspace access and locked roof access on multistory condos are the most common conditions in my experience with condos also. I notice that there have been no comments by realtors. Did you post this on any of the realtor groups? It would sure be nice to hear what realtors have to say about this subject.

Hi David..Yes I did make this forum thread available to the entire Active Rain community,but none of the agents responded .

Best response is when you blog consumer tips and warm fuzzy feel good stories.

Watch the board and see what gets the most response.You need to leave an opening for the masses to say things like,oh that is a good tip,or gee thank you for that information.

For the most part I just write what I am thinking at the time.It is very rare that I even know what I'm going to say till my fingers hit the keyboard ,however I do note that when I draft something ahead of time my views go up.The reason is that when I plan ahead my comments are more generic ,thus the appeal to the masses on a wider basis.

Personally we need to face the fact that many may hope we do not get to see things any more than necessary

NOV

2007

Howdy Bob

You are a very good guy for doing this thank you to agents.

Have a good one

Dale

DEC

2007

Ha Ha ..Dale it was not so much a thank you as a reminder that we all work together in unison at times for the common goal of streamlining the process of the tasks at hand.

Just as well I can think of Agents whom many times deserve a thank you.

So to all those that looked at me as part of the process rather than a nuisance Thank You

DEC

2007

"I personally do not charge for the pain of going back and know that your time is also valuable to you"

If they thought your time was valuable, they wouldn't be pulling this crap unless they were a naive new agent.

Charge what you're worth.

I have to do that occassionally and YES, I charge for my time. That's what I sell. My time, education, experience and failure diagnosis skills. I make sure my buyers know this up front, make sure the realtors are aware of what needs to happen, and when it doesn't, I charge for my time appropriately.

BUT, I recommend that my buyers seek reimbursement from whomever screwed the pooch and caused the second visit. They usually do, and they usually get it.

Respect is a two way street. (So is communication, make sure you're doing both.)

I agree Erby, Time is money. I too charge to make a return call to see something that was not accessible when it should have been or the power is not on etc. Additionally, I do not make these returns during a normal inspection slot. It is not financially viable to give up a $3-400 slot for a freeby or only $150. I will go back in the early morning or at the end of the day, check out what's needed and send an amended report. But not before I'm paid for it.

AS you said, the cost can be passed along to whomever goofed and left the needed area locked etc.

I do walk the exteriors, look for electrical panels, gas meters, water main shut off etc. I will go on the roof if the A/C is there, it's part of the inspection. No AC, no roof. If I do see problems I note that "this area is not a part of this inspection but......

AS for owners having to "dip into their pockets for repairs", this is what the Reserve Study is supposed to address. The clients should ask to see it. Here in California, it is required to be done every three years and that it be reviewed every year. If the HOA or management company comes hat in hand, some one is screwing up big time.

Good comments guys, however I would like to mention that a final walkthru is included in my fee.

What this means is that I do not charge xtra for this.

I am in Chicago and many of my inspections are of condominiums.

What this means is that I often find many defects both large and small that the developer (in many cases) will have a chance to make right just before the closing.

My client often would like me there to make sure things have been taken care of.

I realize many areas of the country have so much compitition that you must charge a lower inspection fee in which case it would be necasary to charge ala carte on any time consuming task.

In my case I offer a premium service and spend lots of time with all my clients , helping them through the process.I actualy have no problem going back to see what if anything was done to improve the defects I found , and actualy enjoy wrapping up any questions my client may still have in order to get everything right.

Sounds silly, but I love the job

DEC

2007

Well Bob, ya gotta do what's right for you!

If you're making a living off the price you charge and the service you provide and you're happy with it, it really doesn't matter what anyone elese thinks or does.

Make yourself happy first (and it sounds like you are).

The new guys will figure it out, or get out of the business.

You can lead a horse to water, you can shove his head under the water but you can't make them drink.

Erby these are hard times in real estate right now.

Some guys have sold out for an too low fee , but I simply increase my level of service.

A client will not worry about paying a couple bucks more up front , compared to remembering the guy who gouged them on a multi tier fee schedule.

I am in this to stay and know people will remember my level of service.

DEC

2007

thanks for the reminder

FEB

2008

I wish I read your posting earlier. My inspector didn't check the attic when I purchased the condo. Now I am finding unknown leak from the attic. Does leak happen in every rainfall or just during big storm? Three weeks ago a storm caused water leak on the attic with visible water stain along the joist and leak down to my washer area but the problem doesn't happen again during this weekend's storm. However, this storm is smaller. It only generated 0.71" of rainfall compares to last storm that generated 2.97" of percip. HOA is denying the leak was from the attic and not fixing the damage since it didn't leak through this time. I saw two buckets in the attic at the location where my bedroom ceiling leaked 3 years ago. I recalled the complex's handyman said the roof didn't need to be fixed and just painted over the stain. It didn't leak since (at least not noticeable yet). Does the previous owner know the roof leaked and put the buckets there or the handyman? Is there other access to the attic from outside of my unit that the handyman can put the buckets there? I need to be educated so I can reason with HOA on Tue. Your comment will be very appreciated.

FEB

2008

Sorry you did not leave a name , but I will attempt to answer.

First of all the Inspector when working for a client at a condominium normally will have written into the inspection agreement that he is reasonable only for the systems and components between the walls.

I have no way of knowing what the agreement stated or even more important what he checked or may have told you.

Did he go in the attic?

You said three years ago, which means conditions at that time were different than what they are now.

What does the association say about this?

I take it you are not on the board of directors from your questions, so I would defiantly recommend you get in touch with someone concerning this.

It seems the main problem is in the laundry room making there many possibilities as to the cause of the leak.

If maintenance is not skilled in tracking the source you need to contact whom ever is in charge of management and notify them of the problem and it needs to be taken care of immediately.

At the very least find a way to keep track of your correspondence in case there is damage to your unit as the association is financially responsible more than likely.

Now please understand that I am not a lawyer and have no idea where you live or the laws of your jurisdiction but there is a good common sense about protecting your self and your investment.

If the leak gets worse or is traveling down the walls to the units below you there is an obligation on your part as a member of this community to report these problems.

Last if you are sure there is a problem then come Tuesday let it be known that any damage to your unit will be recorded.Why not take a picture of what you are seeing so that these members can see for them selves.

I wish you luck and hope the problem gets resolved.

Once again I am not trying to give legal advice , as this is only my opinion.

Hope it helps.

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