angry, miniature Arizona mortgage brokerI know I am not going to get much sympathy from Realtors on this particular post. Don't worry, I am not looking for sympathy. However, I think many of you will be able to empathize with me on this.

I am actually writing this for my future, potential clients. If you searched the web looking for an Arizona home loan and you found this post, that is good for you. You just happened to locate one of Arizona's most ethical mortgage brokers. I promise to treat you fairly and not abuse the trust you put into me. I will never lie to you. In the end, like all of my clients who close, you will be very satisfied. I have never had a single complaint with the Better Business Bureau ever.

However, I might not want your "business".

If you already know everything there is to know about the mortgage business- do me a favor and call somebody else. I've been doing this for many years and I still have the opportunity to learn something new each day. If you are more knowledgeable than I am, you will probably need to deal with somebody who is more on your level.

If you think that all loan officers are up to no good- again, please call somebody else. I don't like dealing with people who have no respect for me from the beginning. I am sure anyone can relate to that.

If you are going to shop around a little everyday, with different mortgage companies, getting different rates each time because the market is fluctuating - I definitely think you are better off with another mortgage broker. I don't want you to compare my rate on Monday to my competitor's rate on Friday. What you are doing makes no sense and possibly makes me look bad.

But most of all, if you are going to waste even five minute of my valuable time, without truly considering me as a viable lending option- please pick up the phone and call my competition. I am too busy to deal with people who simply like to waste my time, for whatever perverse reason people do this.

Why am I so worked up today?

I recently had contact with the know-it-all client that mortgage brokers now have to deal with on a regular basis. You know, the guy who watches Suze Orman on the T.V. and has refinanced three times in the past five years and now thinks he knows everything there is to know about mortgage loans. In other words, the kind of client who shows no respect for what I do.

Anyway, I quoted the gentleman a very fair rate and costs. It would be highly unlikely that he would be able to find something better, with a commissioned loan officer, since I am actually "the boss" and can cut my rates (almost) as low as I would like without having to worry about "my cut."

He emailed the good Realtor that recommended me and told him that he found a "slightly better rate". The Realtor tried to defend me, but wasn't able to get through to the guy.

Of course, this slightly better rate means absolutely nothing, as I can almost guarantee the up-front costs were higher on whatever deal he found. You want a "slightly better" rate? I can always give you a "slightly better" rate. However, I try to quote my clients the best rate. That doesn't necessarily mean the lowest rate.

It means that I provide my Arizona mortgage clients the best rate and costs combination that suits their particular needs. Are you going to fix-and-flip your property? Well than I am going to recommend- in your best interest- that you take a higher rate with zero closing costs. If you are going to flip the property, there is no sense in paying closing costs that you will never recoup.

You know, things like that. Things that save my clients thousands of dollars.

Anyway, the guy just emailed me and asked me to provide him a pre-approval letter (or the "LSR" for the Realtors reading this). He didn't realize that the Realtor tipped me off to the fact that he was planning on using somebody else.

He asked if I would charge him a fee for the LSR. Apparently, the company with the lower rate also asked him for an application fee.

So I wrote him back:

"Actually, I do not charge for the LSR or for an 'application fee'. However, I do have to pull credit in order to issue the LSR and I have to pay for that out of my own pocket. It also takes time for me to to all of this and time, of course, is money.

The only reason I am explaning this is because I understand that you found a better rate elsewhere. All I ask, if I provide you the LSR, is that you give me the chance to re-quote you on the day that you are actually ready to lock. You don't need to use me; just allow me the opportunity, since I am spending time and money with you now. Some people actually use me for an LSR and then I never hear from them again.

I hope you can empathize with this. I look forward to doing business together in the future."

Guess what? The guy never responded and it's been a couple of days. (He usually emails me back in a matter of minutes.) I know why. He already plans on using the other company. He was- like so many people have done to me in the past- going to use me for a letter of approval and then call somebody else without checking back with me. Without even giving me the opportunity to be his mortgage broker! And meanwhile, his "slightly better rate" could actually be a rip-off. Or a bait-and-switch. Or anything.

I wonder how people would feel if they were treated this way in their own work environments? I just wish more would live by the Golden Rule. Is that really too much to ask?

 
This post has been included in Arizona Information

34 Comments on Mortgage Clients Who Use And Abuse Me

MAY
25
2007
133,024 Points 29 Featured Posts

I am so sorry to the people that commented here earlier.  This has never happened before and it won't happen again. 

I accidentally deleted this post.  Fortunately, I save everything in MS Word, so I was able to re-post it, but of course, I lost the comments.

I feel very badly about this.  So sorry.  Especially to Angie, who took the time to write a lengthy comment.

Ugh!

2:44pm • #1
14 Featured Posts
Hi there- Why did you think that you wouldn't get much sympathy from Realtors on this?  We have the same thing.  Can you show me a house?  How about 50?  Oh wait, my ex girlfriend's cousin's brother in law twice removed is a realtor, I have to write the offer with them.  Shucks, sorry.  Grrr... Yes, we do have the contract available to us,  but not everyone uses it, or pushes for it.  I get you.  This type of thing stinks.
2:54pm • #2
3 Featured Posts

Karen,

It sucks to be used and abused.  I think that has happened to most of us.  I spent a full day showing homes to someone that then decided to wait.  I now know that they never intended on buying.  They just wanted to waste my time.

Good luck.

2:56pm • #3
I usually see that the people that do those things almost always pay for it in the end.
2:57pm • #4
1 Featured Post
I totally understand what you are going through. I do not understand people who contact us for financing and have the audacity to tell us how to do it, what kind of rate they shuold be getting and how much the cost. they read a couple of books and thuoght they know everything. Check out my blogs..I have tons of stories similar to this. Anyway good luck. wish you all the best!
3:20pm • #5
370,774 Points 62 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Oh, no!  I missed the orginal post, and it's comments.  What it a featured post then?  It deserves a star now, if it hasn't been "starred" before!  
3:21pm • #6
133,024 Points 29 Featured Posts

Chris-- thank you so much for your kind words.  It means a lot coming from an AR star like you!  As far as "featured" goes - AR doesn't feature me anymore.  It's been exactly a month since I've been featured.  I don't get it, because my blog has lots of subscribers!

My sincere thanks to everybody else who commented also.

Christina-- what I meant about "not getting sympathy from Realtors" is because I know you guys go through the same exact thing!  I meant that to mean that you all get the same thing, so you probably won't feel too sorry for me...

3:34pm • #7

Hi Karen, I know you wrote this when you were upset, and I totally understand why.  Having said that, may I suggest that you convert this to a "Members Only" post as the tenor of your message is largely negative.  Having ready many of your other posts, I know that's not how you really are, and you may not want potentially good clients to misinterpret what you're saying!

My next comment deals with how to avoid these types of clients from the beginning.  Most of the time, these sorts of things happen when we assume that clients understand how we work, the business, etc.; unfortunately, most do not.  I think it's important to find out upfront how your client will react to certain situations, and let them know what your expectations are.  Remember, they are not only interviewing you, you're interviewing them.  You can ask "If after committing to doing business with me, you receive a quote from a competitor that seems lower than mine, what will you do?"  If the answer is anything other than "Tell them I'm all set", you have a decision to make.  You can move forward and hope they don't get that call, or you can tell them that's not the way you work.  The choice, as always, is yours!

3:39pm • #8

Karen

You have total sympathy from me on this. I do think that we are our own worst enemy sometimes. We are always advertising our services for free ( free market analysis, free mortgage approvals) and the public is conditioned to think if we are giving it away it must cost us nothing. 

3:46pm • #9
Karen, I enjoy my freedom to say no to any client who is not what I believe to be a 5 star client.  Life is too short to work with people I don't like.  Another transaction is always welcomed but peace of mind is Priceless!!
3:46pm • #10
1 Featured Post
Maybe you need a Buyer Broker Agreement. Just copy the AAR form with relevant mortgage stuff substituted. By the way, we are your allies out there. A good, legitimate lender is a thing of value. I just blew off a prospect the other day. They gave me the laundry list of things they want in the new home, and oh bythe way, we are working with 2 other agents. I sent a polite note what I do, why I ask for some reasonable committment. They replied there way or nothing. I took nothing. I am not going to entertain and educate them for someone elses benefit.
3:49pm • #11
133,024 Points 29 Featured Posts
Good for you Jim!  That's the way to do it.
3:52pm • #12
105,224 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Karen - As Realtors, we do sympathize and empathize! It is frustrating to do so much work, then have a client work with someone else. We all have these experiences; funny thing is, just when we think we have learned from our experience, we find someone who slips in and teaches us another thing or two about people. I think many do not know how we work, and of course, they believe we make so much money,so what's a little time with them.

Have a great weekend, I hope you have some time to relax! I gave you a five-star!

 

3:54pm • #13
105,224 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog
BTW - I love the baby picture!
3:54pm • #14
14 Featured Posts
Karen- Actually, I think we should be able to have a moment.  LOL this post should unite realtors, mortgage brokers and home inspectors alike!  Why shouldn't we have sympathy for you just because we go through the same thing?  I actually re-read that like six times trying to figure out of you were being scarcastic or not before I commented.
4:01pm • #15
261,871 Points 26 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Karen - as you know I am a REALTOR - and I do understand your frustration - let me tell you that - first of all when a client of mine asks for a lender referral I give them a list of 3 very competent mortgage brokers or lenders - and I explain to them - I will be calling all three and upfront tell them what we are trying to accomplish and what our issues may be.  I expect my borrower to follow up and sometimes they are sitting right there - the reason for our call is to see what products they may have for our particular transaction not to shop rates - the borrower understands up front that these three people will give them about the same rate that our calls are about programs not rates the three I typically recommend have totally different programs.  Once we figure out which program is best suited for them - they work with that person and that person alone - I explain to them that this lender will be spending money to service them and that although they may be solicited for what appears to be a better rate - that person knows nothing of the transaction - not to buy the line because it is simply that a line - only once have I had a buyer jump ship on a lender - and you know what happened?  The lender could not fund a week prior to closing and because the buyer had not locked in with the GOOD lender they lost the property and the loan - they were subprime and are still waiting for a loan program for their situation.  Lesson learned - they check in with th Good lender weekly and have sent her flowers and an apology letter.  So, yes us Realtors do understand, we do empathize and understand your loyalty as well as our own.
7:32pm • #16
261,871 Points 26 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I vote to leave it public by the way - it is time the public know we do not sit around and eat bon-bons waiting for them to waster their time and our time.
7:35pm • #17
224,760 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Things like this happen all the time to Realtors.  My favorite inquiry is from a buyer who needs a lot of information about a property and then tells me that he has a Realtor but she/he is too busy and he doesn't want to "bother" him/her.  Makes you want to pull your hair out but then we have to bit our tongue to stay professional.  So I think you'll have plenty of empathetic people here.
7:37pm • #18
1 Featured Post

Karen,

As Bill Clinton used to say, "I feel your pain."  I hope you have a wonderful weekend and that next week is filled with wonderful clients!

Rita 

8:55pm • #19
MAY
26
2007
1 Featured Post

I had a guy ask me the other day if he could break our listing agreement (should he decide to hire me) if he finds a potential buyer who says, "hey, I'll come back later when you've fired your Realtor and we can lower the purchase price."

Seriously, this guy actually said this to me up front. 

12:35pm • #20
MAY
27
2007
147,487 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Karen, I feel your pain!  These kind of clients really suck.  I had one couple, the husband was one of my little brothers friend's who I had known since he was a child, who locked their rate in.  The day before closing, the wife calls me and screams at me about how I'm ripping her off and how I should be ashamed of myself doing this to a friend.

I couldn't get a word in edgewise with her, but later learned that another lender had quoted her a rate that was about .25% better than what they had locked in at.  The market had moved in the weeks since we locked it in, but I was giving them the rate that they locked in at.

The husband apologized, but said that there wasn't anything that he could do, that the wife had decided to go with the other lender.  They have since divorced....good riddens to her!

 

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc. 

 

11:01pm • #21
MAY
28
2007

I hate hearing stories like this. its true though, I've had the same thing happen. I think all Mortgage Brokers and Loan Officer's have had this happen. I'm pretty good at reading people and can usually tell if they seem a bit flaky or what not. It is kind of funny that people think they "know it all" when it comes to this stuff. "Oh I've refi'd and bought houses, I know the process" I bet you do....

 

I agree with most of how you acted in the situation. I've fired clients because they were too much of a pain. I'm too busy and have too many loyal clients to sit there and nickel and dime with a client so he can't just keep running from me to the other broker and try to get us to keep beating each other. At some point you have to realize this person is going to be a pain and it is not worth it. 

10:09am • #22
MAY
30
2007
266,652 Points 59 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Excellent post Karen and I do empathize with you.  I think you handled it very well and professional and as far as that particular client...I've had my fair share as well. 
6:19am • #23
4 Featured Posts

Karen,

I understand exactly what you're talking about. You can't win them all and you can't certainly please them all either.

Shailesh

11:07am • #24
You know what Karen, you handled that situation very, very well! I haven't had it happen to me yet (I'm sure it will) but I can only hope to be as diplomatic as you were. Trust me, your words cut him and they cut him deeeeep! He was trying to be slick by not telling you that he was going to use someone else. But you put the truth, point blank and frank, right in his face! You Go Girl!! 
7:26pm • #25
149,977 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I have turned down business before....

I have turned down working with certain realtors too......

Who says that realtors are the only ones who get to be picky about who they work with? LOL

 

11:52pm • #26

I really hate clients like that

 

do people think we do loans for the sport of it?

 

we are professionals and honest ones

 

if you want to go with someone who gets you a "better rate" just to find out that they charges you 3 points up front well god bless yoyu sir

 

and yes just like you i cannot stand trhe know it alls.............

 

Mt=y time is money and i cannoyt stand being used

 

DOMINICK GACCINO

First Suffolk Mortgage Corp

 

11:55pm • #27
MAY
31
2007
1 Featured Post

Remember the Golden Rule: Treat others as you would like to be treated!!  I try to only work with people who live by this!!

1:34am • #28
JUN
16
2007
259,819 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Karen,

I love Jim's idea but AZ DFI will not allow exclusive brokerage agreements; I tried them back in 2000.  It's the same way in California. Upfront application fees are one way to do it but, as you know, that is difficult in the markets you and I serve.

Here's an idea I learned from Todd Duncan, years ago,at his  Mortgage Mastery University

ASSUME you still have the customer even though he goes somewhere else.  Call him after the first day and ask him if his rate is locked.  Call him after the third day and ask him if he received the rate lock, GFE, and TIL in writing.  Call him after the fifth day and ask if the appraisal has been ordered and what the verbal valuation is.  All alog, this week's process, you're demonstrating how your system of customer service is far superior to your competitors. 

It's extra work but I win back about 20% of the people. In this market, it's worth the extra effort. 

5:46pm • #29
JUN
17
2007
133,024 Points 29 Featured Posts

I love it Brian.  Thank you.  I will honestly implement that and see if I can get 20-percent more.  Makes sense as I read it!

1:16am • #30
Boy, I can relate. This same thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I worked late(8:00pm)on a Friday preparing an updated pre-qual letter for a borrower of mine. As it turned out, her new realtor talked her into using her favorite mortgage broker. These things happen, thank goodness it's not too often!
8:15am • #31
great post!!! I feel your pain
11:17am • #32
167,315 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Karen,  THANK YOU!!!!! I loved your post... Fantastic... I know exactly how you feel.

" If you already know everything there is to know about the mortgage business- do me a favor and call somebody else. I've been doing this for many years and I still have the opportunity to learn something new each day. If you are more knowledgeable than I am, you will probably need to deal with somebody who is more on your level.

If you think that all loan officers are up to no good- again, please call somebody else. I don't like dealing with people who have no respect for me from the beginning. I am sure anyone can relate to that.

If you are going to shop around a little everyday, with different mortgage companies, getting different rates each time because the market is fluctuating - I definitely think you are better off with another mortgage broker. I don't want you to compare my rate on Monday to my competitor's rate on Friday. What you are doing makes no sense and possibly makes me look bad. "

What can I add to this?  I applaud you

12:29pm • #33

Karen, I feel your pain.

<>Here's something some of my clients do in order to screen the serious prospects from the "lookie lous" -- ask them to 

pay for their own credit report.  It's legal in most cases as

long as you only charge them what the credit report costs.  

If they won't pay $10 for a credit report, there's a good chance

they are not serious.

 

Jackie, Mortgage Virtual Assistant


9:10pm • #34

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Michael and Karen George

Chandler, AZ

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