This seems to be THE NUMBER ONE question I get.  Unfortunately there are several answers and which  is correct for you depends on the Circumstances.  I will address the common scenarios in this article.

Policy in my office is to never "tell" - as in "instruct" - our borrower client to pay or not to pay their mortgage.  Paying or not paying has a lot of collateral effects and the borrower needs to know what they are before making the decision.  We don't make the decision for the borrower (our client) because the effects of paying or not paying are not going to affect me - but they will affect the client, so it is the client that must make the final decision.

Let me make one issue clear - when we are hired to help facilitate a short sale or loan modification it is far easier for us to negotiate with the lender if the payments are late, but it is almost never a requirement.  The exceptions to which will be discussed later in this article.  Additionally, internal rules change at the banks constantly.  A new client came in totally frustrated. They called their bank to help with a modification and the bank said they could not address their situation until they were at least 60 days late.  So the near perfect (800+) credit score couple stopped paying for 60 days and then called the bank back. Now the bank says that because they are 60 days late they cannot speak to them about a modification!  The point is, if you don't have to be late then why voluntarily create a late payment credit history that will adversely affect your credit-dependent life almost immediately and for years to come? 

SO LET'S GET INTO IT - Danger - this is a long article and it covers a lot of ground!

Short Sale:

A borrower that is current and contemplating a short sale wonders if they should stop paying their (first) mortgage. They are upside down and until now they have been current.  However they are paying the mortgage at a cost of not paying other bills. (Other or different facts may be that they are paying all their bills but taking the money from savings or a pension fund to make those payments, or they are borrowing money from another equity loan).

Generally, it is not a good idea to get into debt to pay your mortgage, unless you have a solid plan to both (i) keep the mortgage current and (ii) repay the additional indebtedness you are creating.  It is not like taking from one pocket to put into another - it is more like taking from someone else's pocket to pay your bills.  This would include credit card loans as the source of funds.  It all has to be paid back, so if you don't have a plan to pay it back, don't borrow it in the first place!  You are only digging a bigger hole for yourself and making it harder to get out of the hole.

If you are taking from your pension or savings money, again you better have a rock solid plan to get that money back into those accounts, or there is no sense in giving up that hard earned and usually irreplaceable retirement money, especially considering these are monies that are usually protected from creditors' judgments including those your mortgage lender could obtain (deficiency judgment)..

Of course the "amount" of money you have "in reserve" comes into consideration.  If you have 2 million dollars in reserve and you decide to spend 10% of it to keep the loans current until you can short sale the property, that plan has a basis that the 10% is not going to make a difference in the way you run your life over the remaining time you have left as a mere mortal.

Sometimes, but rarely, we run into a lender that says they won't approve a short sale or modification because the borrower is current with his payments.  When we have encountered this it is in most cases associated with a government backed loan, (but later on we will show you why this may be motivated by plain greed on the part of a loan servicer).   A properly compiled financial snapshot of the borrower should show why they are current and what will happen if the short sale or modification is not approved.

Your decision on how to proceed should be based on what goal you are trying to accomplish and how you plan to get to that goal (see how to determine your goal).

Mortgage Modification:

Apart for some voluntary government programs regarding (Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac) government involved mortgages, I know of no lender that absolutely will not deal with a borrower who is current with their mortgage payments. Lenders deal with all sorts of situations and "absolutely not" is just not in the vocabulary. A typical borrower calling a lender may hear that they must be late, but that is more of a "vetting" statement than an absolute policy.

The exceptions are some government program guides for modification.  The first step to seeing if your loan comes within this exception is to see if it is a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac loan.  You can do this online at the Making Home Affordable site.  Many servicers and lenders whose loans are not "government backed" are now choosing to follow this government plan (known as the Home Affordable Modification plan or more affectionately called the "Obama Plan" - see below) for the simple reason that they are being compensated by the government for each successful modification they execute within its guidelines, and either the servicer or lender receive a residual bonus for the loan staying current under the modification.  In these cases we have seen non-government backed loans insist on the borrower being late to qualify for modification as well.  What is confusing on this point is that when the plan was introduced it included modifications (and compensation for such) for current loans as well.  However, we are told time and time again from the lenders directly that they must be late to qualify. There is no such rule in the guidelines.

While this is contrary to what has been published by the government about the plan, keep mind that following the plan and any of its various aspects is entirely voluntary and up to the Lender or servicer.  They can pick and chose from this plan as they see fit for their own internal reasons.  Here is a more interesting twist - a servicer that modifies a delinquent loan is paid more under this incentive plan than if the borrower were to modify while the loan is current!  If the borrower is current, the servicer can receive up to $3,500 in incentive fees from the government.  If the borrower is delinquent, the servicer can receive up to $4,000 in incentive fees from the government.  Thus it seems that it pays ($500 to)the servicer to encourage a borrower to be delinquent!

We often see a client that fits the profile for modification under this government plan.  Some of these plans are said to require that to be qualified the borrower must be late 60 days (see Guidelines page 5 at bottom).  But in fact, being late is not a requirement, but only one factor of many (see Guidelines page 16 at the top - "However, a NPV (net present value) positive result is not necessary to qualify a loan for a Home Affordable Modification").  If the goal is to qualify under such a plan as put in place by the lender at that time, then to accomplish that qualification the borrower may need to make themselves late, but that cannot be determined in a 2 minute telephone call with a lender representative.  I cringe when we go this route because just like these "plans" came into existence, I can see them change the plan thus leaving the now 60 day late borrower with ruined credit scores that occurred needlessly.

Generally about a quarter of our modification clients never go late and still get a modification offer from the lender.  However, keep in mind that nearly all lenders put up as their first line of defense the policy that going late is a necessity to qualify.  We can only speculate this is done to deter the enormous inflow of loan modification requests from borrowers that would come in if this was NOT said to be a requirement.  It also helps address those in the most dire amount of need first.

The Pro's and the Con's:

The general rule of thumb we use is if you can pay your mortgage and maintain your life's necessities, you may consider keeping the loan current, taking the points in this article into account.  However, if you need to choose between buying food or medications and paying the mortgage, the decision that should be made is clear: your life necessities take precedent.

Here are the pro's to consider when in the short sale or modification process.  Keeping the loan CURRENT has the following benefits:

a) Your credit score is not dinged until the short sale transaction occurs (and not at all in most loan modifications) and your overall credit score reduction will be minimized, and b) You will remain in good standing with your lender without worry of penalties, fines, or a foreclosure. 

The "con's" of keeping the loan current are that:

(a) You will be out of pocket for the monthly mortgage payment (monies which you may or may not need to survive), and

(b) Your lender may question the sincerity of your claimed hardship, and you may be spending funds that would otherwise be potentially (but rarely) forgiven by the lender.  In addition, occasionally the lenders in a short sale may require a lump sum payment above the sale amount from the borrower to forgive the debt. Coming up with that money is sometimes the difference between a deal or no-deal.  If you can put your mortgage payments aside and stockpile them, it will help you cover that potential lump sum.

A similar pro/con approach applies to GOING DELINQUENT with your mortgage.  In favor of going late is being able to keep the unspent mortgage payments in your pocket (or applied towards other necessities as the case may be) in which event your hardship may appear more sincere to the lender.  On the other hand, there are very real consequences to going late with your mortgage payment:

a) You WILL incur late fees and other penalties on the late interest.  Usually this is not a large issue as it is part of the forgiven debt in a short sale and usually forgiven in a modification, but it is something to consider,

b) Your credit score downgrade will be harder as you will compound the short sale hit with a 30 day late, 60 day late, etc, (and if this is a modification you will make a non-negative credit score event turn into a negative credit score event), and

c) You will eventually cross a threshold (typical industry standard of 90 days late) where the lender will  initiate a foreclosure action in State court.

Going Late on Your Second Mortgage:

Often a borrower comes to us and says that they are late on the first mortgage but current on the second mortgage.  The second mortgage is almost always totally upside down with no equity left in the property to secure that financial obligation.  The borrower says they paid the second mortgage because they had the money for the smaller payment (second) mortgage but not the larger amount first mortgage. Our answer - if you don't pay the first mortgage they are going to foreclose it and then paying the second mortgage is not going to save your house.

Lately we have seen second mortgage lenders with 90 day late mortgages skipping the foreclosure process (since if they cause a sale of the house it is sold subject to the first mortgage, and thus any buyer still has to pay the first mortgage, which usually makes no economic sense).  Instead the second mortgage lender sues the borrower on the promissory note only and gets a money judgment that they can keep for a long time (20 years in Florida).

So if a client says they are paying the second mortgage but not the first mortgage, we usually suggest they look at the common sense approach and what are they likely to gain or lose by doing so.

Effect of Non-Payment / Late Payment on Credit Score:

This is a big question and nowhere is the answer clear cut.  Definitely if you get a report on your credit that you were "late" (in mortgages that means 30 days or more late) then your credit has been "dinged" and your credit score is adversely affected.

Credit scores are used for many purposes, including the amount of credit you can get on a credit card, the interest rate you get on credit cards, car loans and mortgages, your ability and price of life and disability insurance and even car or house liability insurance, your ability to get a certain type of job, or to establish business relationships, and your ability to rent a place to live, to name a few.  So credit scores are important. If you want to better understand credit scoring you can see the Federal Reserve Board's Report to Congress from April 2008.

How much your credit score is affected by a 30, 60 or 90 day late report depends on a lot of other factors about your financial well being, your past credit history and myriad other issues.  Generally though we have our clients reporting drops of as little as 50 points for a no late payment short sale or up to 150 points for a short sale with multiple late payment reports.  We have seen an 800 go to 720 and we have seen a 740 go to 500.  It all depends on too many uncontrollable credit issues to be able to give a formula that works for everyone. For a discussion on credit scores this our past article.

Confused?

Rightfully so.  The fact of the matter is that we are in uncharted waters and there is no industry standard for Short Sales or Loan Modifications, which makes pinning down exactly what the Lenders may do near impossible.  Pile on the fact that there are a large number of lenders out there and each have their own internal policies which change as readily as the tides.  The best anyone can hope to do is make an educated decision, set a plan, and be ready for anything.

Copyright 2009 Richard P. Zaretsky, Esq.

Be sure to contact your own attorney for your state laws, and always consult your own attorney on any legal decision you need to make.  This article is for information purposes and is not specific advice to any one reader.

Richard Zaretsky, Esq., RICHARD P. ZARETSKY P.A. ATTORNEYS AT LAW, 1655 PALM BEACH LAKES BLVD, SUITE 900, WEST PALM BEACH, FLORIDA 33401, PHONE 561 689 6660  RPZ99@Florida-Counsel.com - FLORIDA BAR BOARD CERTIFIED IN REAL ESTATE LAW - We assist Brokers and Sellers with Short Sales and Modifications and Consult with Brokers and Sellers Nationwide!  Shortsales@Florida-Counsel.com  New Website www.Florida-Counsel.com.  See our easy to find articles at SHORT SALE AND LOAN MODIFICATION TABLE OF CONTENTS

 
This post has been included in Florida Information
Post is included in group: Short Sale REALTORSĀ®
Post is included in group: Short Sale and Loan Modification Nightmares
Post is included in group: RE/MAX Active Rain Bloggers
Post is included in group: PALM BEACH COUNTY SHORT SALES
Post is included in group: Florida RealtorĀ® Network

109 Comments on SHOULD I PAY MY MORTGAGE? WHEN SHOULD I STOP PAYING MY MORTGAGE?

JUN
23

Good info! Long, but excellent info. Thanks for contributing.

5:51am • #1
386,358 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Richard, as an active  short sale Lister, I speak to people every single day about your points. . I've always advocated that people do the right thing. .if they can afford it, they should keep paying their mortgage and if they can't and they have been rejected for a loan mod. .then a short sale is the most sensible solution.

I will never advice someone NOT to pay their mortgage. . but after my presentation, their decision coming from their own is clear . .because I make it very clear. 

5:55am • #2

Richard, thanks for an informative article on the pros and cons of this minefield. It has been so difficult to keep up with the ins and outs of all this mess.

5:56am • #3
460,518 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

This is good information for consumers. I will bookmark this and read it again.

5:56am • #4
358,687 Points 8 Featured Posts Hit Router

Thanks Richard, great information.  As always.

6:08am • #5
123,495 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

This all sounds right to me.  Sometimes long is necessary to fully cover the subject.. Thanks for posting.

6:17am • #6
429,275 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Richard...

I only made it half way through it. I need coffee before I tackle this so early in the morning :) 

TLW...ROAR!

7:04am • #7
5 Featured Posts

May I suggest a double espresso as more appropriate - that is what I used to write it!

7:12am • #8
365,222 Points Outside Blog

Good information. We never advise clients not to make a mortgage payment. However, if they know the home is going to be lost to foreclosure, they should use the money to fund a rental.

 

7:40am • #9
650,412 Points 264 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Fantastic article Richard. Good to see I have been counceling my sellers properly. I have several short sales in the works right now where no payments have been missed. Thanks for sharing all of this Richard.

7:46am • #10
222,515 Points 19 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Richard,

Excellent! This was needed. Now we just need people to read and believe it's become PC to default, PC to be a victim.

Bill

8:06am • #11

Thank you for this summary Richard.  I for one ... and I am only one ... did not find the post too long and digested every word of it.  In the Florida Keys, I am working with customers and clients concerned about their vacation or second home investment.  I get this question from almost every seller who is having difficulty justifying maintaining the payments on their upside-down property.  Often they purchased at or near the top of the Keys real estate market or in many instances (and normally they will not volunteer this), refinanced and took $500,000 +/- out.  Do you believe the theme of your post differs much when applying the information to this type of property?  Often these people have significant real estate and/or other assets.

8:21am • #12

Great Post!   I've been working short sales and loan mod's for several months now in VA and WV.  Every bank has different policies and they often can and will go back on what they have instructed you in the first place (depending whom you get on the phone!)   Often it comes down to what the "investors" want to see before they sign off on final approvals.

 

 

8:22am • #13
180,093 Points 4 Featured Posts

Great post and i agree with TLW, a third cup of coffee will help the second reading. We work short sales and counsel on loan mods, and everything you said done to the uncertainty and rule changes apply. We have had no success on loan mods with investors, especially if they are getting up to six months behind. Those are pretty impossible. Even if we can get them done, by the time they reach the attorneys, we have have an extra $14,000 in late fees, interest, and that doesn't include the cost of the refi as we just had on one of my investors.

8:24am • #14
337,178 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I bookmarked this one for future reference. Thanks for the quality content

8:29am • #15
380,323 Points 22 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Good info...yes this is long, but yes, it's incredibly pertinent.  You should have two stars as this is a gold +.

8:29am • #16
3 Featured Posts

I'd agree with Glenn here, the post wasn't as long as I expected based on your first comments.  This is a wealth of information, thank you.  I'm wondering after reading this if anyone has compiled a list of lenders and what their hot buttons are for accepting short sale terms.

8:34am • #17
209,815 Points 6 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Thanks for the clear explanation. I'm reblogging this for my local folks. Great information that you've provided, and I'm sure that it applies across state lines.

8:35am • #18
613,602 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I read every word and bookmarked, we get asked those questions too all the time. I never tell a person to miss a payment, and explain the consequences of each action, both theirs and the banks.

I sure would love if we had uniform standards but can't see it happening anytime soon.

8:45am • #19
179,781 Points 9 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Richard - Succinct and enlightening, as usual!  Thank you for the resource links, too.

8:45am • #20
235,718 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Wow, great information.  Thanks for putting it all together.  I have it bookmarked for future reference.

8:58am • #21
156,857 Points Localism Sponsor

Some very good information. I always recommend clients seek legal advice.

9:04am • #22
655,013 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

I had clients a couple of years ago that went through the short sale process.  They actually liked that it took 9 months to get the decision made, because that was 9 months of extra payments in their pocket and they got a free place to live which helped them establish a nice amount of savings when they moved.

The banks aren't making sense, and I can't wait for the majority of all this "stuff" goes away.

Well written article!

9:06am • #23

This is great information. Thanks for putting this into print. I hear some homeowners say "Why not? Everybody else is doing it, I'll just get in line." Now I have a good response.

9:18am • #24
236,404 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

That was long. I hear that you need to be late to have a short sale and then people say you dont need to be late ...

10:25am • #25
Outside Blog

I just closed a short sale where the sellers were never late. Hopefully in a couple months when they check their credit, the impact will be very little.

11:21am • #26

The problem is that it is too easy just to walk away. If you buy a home for $600,000 and its now worth $400,000 then why stay. Walk away and let the bank take the loss.

12:09pm • #27

This is great information. Thank you.

I have not run into a case where the owner was paying their second mortgage and not their first. But I will now be on the look-out for those situations.

12:25pm • #28
115,541 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Richard,

This is very useful, however, I would not give it to any of my clients. I always recommend that folks (even on a very tight budget) consult with their own attorney. Just as you wisely counsel those in your office, NEVER recommend what is right/best.

Helpful background, thanks.

1:14pm • #29
101,294 Points

This is great information especially for those in the Tampa Bay area. When sellers who contemplate a short sale this is one of the questions that they ask me. Of course I cannot respond since it goes beyond the scope of my "expertise" so I tell them to contact an attorney like you. Thanks for posting this for others to see especially those in Florida... like me. Aloha, Lana

1:15pm • #30

You're right - There are a lot of pro's & con's, but bottom line a real estate professional should never instruct someone on whether or not to pay their mortgage!

5:35pm • #31
280,378 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Great blog and tons of information but like Dan said it's not our job to give advise as to weather or not to pay something they are legally obligated too.

6:15pm • #32

Great information, Thanks

Melissa Ramirez Keller Williams Realty El Paso TX

Melissa Ramirez
6:28pm • #33

Richard,

What about the clients that have a reasonalbe amount of equity, are not upside down, but just lost their jobs and can't make the payments?  Because there is no income the banks (Bank of America to be precise) will not modify. 

It would make sense to me that all states have laws similar to Bankruptcy where the home foreclosure is "frozen" during the time of BK proceedings.  If the banks had to back off for 90 to 120 days and give unemployed folks a chance to find new work it would be very beneficial to all.  I am speaking of situations where layoffs have so distrupted the normal course of events that people just need some breathing room to find new work, get a paycheck in hand, and then be able to startt modifications.

What I am hearing from the lenders on this is that "they have to take it to the investors" for approval.

 

 

Nancy Allin-Robertson
6:29pm • #34

Well written.I enjoy reading your articles.

Note to those in CA - lenders may not be able succed if the sue your personally prior to a foreclosure.

 

 

 

6:31pm • #35

This is great info and very timely.  Everyone should remember the long-term implications and costs of hurting their credit history.  While the short term pain of paying credit obligations may seem unbearable, it is the long-term costs (5 - 10 years!) to one's credit history that will remind people that it is important to keep the best credit profile possible to meet most of life's objectives.

Michael Goodheim
6:37pm • #36

I would never suggest or instruct my clients to not make their mortgage payments.  I simply (or not so simply, lol) give them the information and inform them of the possible outcomes and let them decide what is best for their situation.

 

Great post!

6:37pm • #37

Thanks for the well written article on the twists and turns of how to approach an upside down mortgage.  I can sure appreciate the challenge of keeping clients informed when the rulebook doesn't really even exist, and the rules we think we know about keep changing.  Short Sales are such a huge part of our inventory here in Sacramento that I created a scoring sheet to predict the likelihood of a short sale closing.  I use it mostly for buyers and for determining if I should even show a property or not.  I've had friends complete a short sale as sellers and never miss a payment.  I've had other clients who stayed in their home for months without paying anything while the banks ignored offers sent to them and eventually auctioned off the home.  So much seems to depend upon the individual bank.  I have to keep reminding myself that these are institutions, run by committees and boards, staffed by hourly employees who have to be incredibly challenged by the volume of files they need to work on.  I have a short sale listing closing this week.  Listed it well over six months ago.  It's selling at about 30% of loan balance.  Interesting times and more to come.

Robyn DeLong
6:38pm • #38

Richard,

You just changed my opinion of Lawyers. LOL  >: )

Millions of homeowners are facing difficult times. Its critical that we educated the public so they can make an informed decision and prepare for Murphy's Law.  All options to avoid foreclosure are painful, my goal as a real estate professional is to help my clients minimize their loss severity and limit the damage to their credit history.  Great Post! PS, Realtor's need to stop being lazy and learn their profession! 

6:46pm • #39

Great article Richard, very informative.  Here in Cincinnati, short sales are becoming a bigger and bigger part of the business.  I'll bookmark your article and refer people who want to buy a home in Cincinnati.  I'm always happy to pass on informative articles like this.

6:49pm • #40
2 Featured Posts

Excellent post Richard.

6:55pm • #41

Oh my!  Thank you for this post!  This was most informative and beneficial.  I have several friends and neighbors going through this process and 3 short sales getting ready to close this month.  The decisions are tough and as you said, the consequences are somewhat unknown. 

Do you think there will be a general forgiveness 3 to 5 years down the road?  It seems like there are and were so many short sales and foreclosures in the past 2 years.  How will banks and mortgage companies treat people who have had to go through a short sale or foreclosure, especially those with good credit histories and relatively good credit ratings?

Thanks again for your post! 

Bill

Bill Grannan
6:56pm • #42

Best post I've ever seen!

6:58pm • #43
Outside Blog

It would be nice if the scoring of credit be more transparent. Hard to fix an issue, when the issue is hidden behind a matrix--that is not disclosed.  It may be time to revamp how the scoring agencies do business.

6:59pm • #44

Very informative article, thanks!

Dan Chapman
7:01pm • #45

You are an asset to the community. Thanks for taking the time.

J Oku Hawaii Mortgage Lender

Jay Oku
7:04pm • #46

Wow, that's a lot of information. And yes, quite confusing. But I appreciate you posting this for all to see.

7:15pm • #47

<!--StartFragment-->

We are now experiencing consumers seeking loans when only a year or so ago they sold their homes through short sale.  As you know, Richard, Fannie Mae issued new guidelines in June 2008 regarding seasoning of preforeclosure sales.

https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/guides/ssg/annltrs/pdf/2008/0816.pdf

Pertinent portion:

Establishing a new policy for preforeclosure sales.  A preforeclosure sale involves the sale of the property by the borrower to a third party for less than the amount owed to satisfy the delinquent mortgage, as agreed to by the lender, investor, and mortgage insurer. Due to the increased incidence of preforeclosure sales, Fannie Mae is establishing a 2-year elapsed time period for reestablishing credit following completion of the action.

However, Fannie Mae attempted to clarify the new guideline in Announcement 08-16 (FAQ) dated August 13, 2008.

Pertinent portion:

Q7: If a borrower has completed a short sale and was never delinquent on that mortgage and is now attempting to purchase a new primary residence, will Fannie Mae purchase the loan?

A:  If the borrower is purchasing a new property and the previous mortgage history complies with our excessive prior mortgage delinquency policy and does not have one or more 60, 90, 120 or 150-day delinquencies reported within the 12 months prior to the credit report date, the loan is eligible for delivery to Fannie Mae, provided the lender or servicer [that] completed the short sale has not entered into any agreement that obligates the borrower to repay any amounts associated with the short sale, including a deficiency judgment.

In brief:

Short sale => never delinquent => no agreement to repay => no seasoning
Short sale => never delinquent => agreement to repay => two years seasoning

My questions are:

  1. Do banks interpret the above to mean that if the borrower was never delinquent on the mortgage of a short sale property, there is no seasoning requirement at all?
  2. If, however, the borrower enters into a repayment agreement for any portion of the loan so shorted, he is automatically are prevented from obtaining a new loan for two years?

Perhaps the quoted portion is simply a case of unclear writing; i.e., if you agree to repay the lender some portion of its loss, seasoning is two years. However, if you agree to repay the lender no portion of its loss, you can get another loan immediately.  This makes no sense.  

Also, Fannie’s clarified policy of August 13, 2008 seems to fly in the face of its own policy against “buy-and-bail” schemes.  That is, a homeowner ought not to be able to get a short sale approved, only to then turn right around and buy another house—sometimes even a model match in the same neighborhood—for a lower price.

It seems we have a case of several policies overlapping and conflicting. Richard, what do you think? 
<!--EndFragment-->

Catherine Coy
7:17pm • #48

What advice could you give to builders regarding properties they own and can't seem to sell because of one reason or another?  I have a client who has several properties that have been reduced and reduced and cannot seem to find anyone willing to even make an offer!  The values have declined as such and its harder to locate financing for buyers, so what does one do to off load the property?

Janet Howard
7:21pm • #49

Richard,

Good timing!  I just had a client ask that very question today.  I really appreciate you hitting all the bullet points.  I really hesitate to even offer ideas or suggestions, but feel comfortable passing on another's opinion.  Thank you.

 

7:27pm • #50

Excellent post, answered most of my short sale client's answers. Thank you

Teksin Duman
7:30pm • #51

Good advise. Thank you for your insight.

Rod D Dennis
7:30pm • #52
Outside Blog

People who take the time to share info like this should get extra quadrouple gold stars!! Thank you. This is great material to help educate my colleagues.

 

7:42pm • #53
1 Featured Post

Nancy Allin-Robertson : There is a program for people who are experiencing a short term hardship, such as a loss of a job, it is called a forbearance agreement. Ask the lender for one in these situations.

7:46pm • #54

Great post.  A good friend asked me that question today.  I think I'll direct him here to reinforce what I told him.  Thank you.

7:55pm • #55
Localism Sponsor

This is affecting everyone. I have a new listing coming up that will be a short sale. The client is a mortgage professional. We have all been humbled by this market.

7:57pm • #56

Excellent!  Nice to get a legal perspective!

8:15pm • #57

As a mortgage professional, I appreciate shared-knowledge. We've presented a couple of information seminars about the credit ramifications of loan modifications in the Inland Empire and found that homeowners are simply relieved to get reliable information. Proving facts and not fluff builds the relationship and leads to referrals for all. Thanks Richard!

Tricia Powe
8:15pm • #58

What a great article! It's nice to see a law professional's perspective on what options are available to distressed homeowners. 

8:27pm • #59

Richard, Thanks for sharing the legal point of view to this debacle. Being a Real Estate broker, a business consultant, and a mortgage broker I can see both sides of the argument. The effects of a foreclosure or even a 30 or 60 day mortgage late can have severe consequences on your credit score and consequently your ability to borrow money, especially with recent economic events. But if you don't need credit in the future, the numbers will usually lead to walking away from a property.

In your dealings with the lenders what have you found to be the roadblocks to expediting the process? I am guessing that lenders are taking a write down of an asset every time they do a short sale or modification and they can only do so many per month because of financial reporting concerns and being a public company that has to answer to their stockholders. Also, with the segmented ownership of mortgage back securities it has to be near impossible to find out who are all the owners of the security behind a mortgage. Do you have any tips for getting the lenders to move more quickly?

8:31pm • #60
3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

You are right about the uncertainties that we must deal with in the incredible market, the legal line not to cross is always the one where we put ourselves into the act and start giving out steps to take by the borrower not knowing exactly what to expect from the lending institution involved. sometimes the best advise I give to clients is to send them to an attorney and then have them come back with a plan of action. I know it took you a lot of time to put this together and we all here at AR appreciate your efforts.

 

Antonio

8:34pm • #61

Richard, Banks are stupid to not look at current borrowers modification for $500.00 difference from govt. They should use common sense and figure that if people stop payments for even two months it can cost them a lot of money.  I think they are not modifying current borrowers loan because it takes out lot of people who do not want to jeopardize their credit and lots of people who just want modification because their neighbor got it.

Rupinder

Rupinder Dulay
8:44pm • #62
286,404 Points 6 Featured Posts

Thank you so much for this very informative piece.  I am certain it is helpful to many people!

8:52pm • #63

Great information.  I'm going to email the link to my office mates.  Most of them do not use this site despite my efforts.  

8:54pm • #64
3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

High Quality Advice! - A+++  thanks for the post 

you have confirmed the way I explain these issues to my clients is the correct way....

9:04pm • #65
4 Featured Posts

Thank you for an extremely informative and much needed post on a subject I get asked about often. I have bookmarked this for future reference and will definitely go back and re-read over the next several days because I am sure I did not absorb it all in the first read. 

9:06pm • #66
100,039 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Richard, we appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I'm glad to hear that you too agree that we don't have to tell our customers to miss payments. Just today, I picked up a new short sale listing where the homeowners haven't missed any payments.

9:12pm • #67

Nice to see someone go into the explanations of Short Sale/ Loan mods.

You hit the points right on the head.

Great Work.  I will send this  to all my agents

 

Lorren Van Fosssen PB (Prudential All Star Realty inc) Kauai, H
9:24pm • #68
Localism Sponsor

Richard, where have you been all of my life?  I'm bookmarking this and saving it to share with clients.  It's all stuff I was pretty much on top of, yet I learned a bit, and appreciate the all-in-one package retort to the usual 1,000 questions we all get.  Thank you!  ~ Julia

9:27pm • #69

Excellent post - now when my clients ask whether they should stop paying, I don't have to awkwardly tell them that I can't give them advice on that. I can just send them to your blog and shift the liability to you :) - just kidding of course.

9:58pm • #70
Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

This is a great post.

I sometimes run into a client that has had a house as a primary residence, had trouble making the payments, moved in with family and friends and then rented out the home as an immediate way to make payments.  Subsequently they have no luck with loan modifications or a short sale as the home is considered an investment property. They then call me up and ask for help...

Any idea if a solution is to end the lease, move back into the property and then try a loan-modification or a short-sale?

10:14pm • #71
432,223 Points 27 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Richard,

Congratulations on the feature. I have sent you the contract for the Sellers that you have so kindly referred to me. When I met them first time, I asked whether they were behind with payments, and they said "No". And then they told me that you explained them pro's and contra's and they made the decision to stay current.

Thank you for the information. And don't be afraid that it is long as long as it is relevant. Long is when irrelevant. We have plenty of very short long post about nothing, so you are OK

10:24pm • #72

Richard,

Well written and thoughtful primer for anyone on any side of a short sale. Maybe you should try getting this to the servicers and the Obama administration. Perhaps they could convince the credit bureaus to consult with the servicer prior to allowing a consumers credit score to be pummeled because their neighborhood values caused them to be upside down on their mortgage in addition to being laid off since their community GDP has fallen off a cliff.

We are a country of compassionate people. Where's the compassion for our fellow Americans in the credit system during this crisis?

 

Rob Gorman
10:28pm • #73

Great information

I have done several short sales where the borrower was not behind but needed to move due to a job transfer or life changing event. I feel that is unethical for an agent to advise a client to stop making payments. One of the first questions I ask is where is you going to live, after the Short Sale.

10:32pm • #74
143,440 Points 2 Featured Posts

Richard,

What a great and detailed post! It was lenghty but I enjoyed reading it and loved the cartoon!   The double expresso did wonders on you. :)

Gerry's AR signature

10:33pm • #75
697,935 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Richard- Excellent advice. We never "tell" either. We give out what the options are and our sellers will have to make that decision for themselves. I did have one client that borrowed all her father's money to keep her payments current, then he died. When he died, her mother started to pay all the payments and finally I said to her: does your mother need to have this money when she needs assisted living or anything like that? They finally decided that spending all this money when we were doing a short sale was just throwing the money away. It all depends on how much pain there is.

We had a turn down on a short sale because the seller was current. American Home Mortgage was the servicer. Countrywide also tells us this all the time and we tell them this is not correct. Sometimes we can get away with it, and other times we can not. Thanks for your great info. Katerina

11:12pm • #77
3 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

Very useful and helpful post.   Lots to digest and internalize -- I have bookmarked for rereading several times!

11:44pm • #78
JUN
24

Thank you Richard!

12:28am • #79

Thank you Richard for posting this. It's very informative. I needed this for myself and my clients.

1:15am • #80
Localism Sponsor

Great info to share with my clients.  I get asked these points on a weekly basis.

1:40am • #81

I was recently advised by a very knowledge Real Estate Attorney in Arkansas, that we Real Estate Agents should not attempt to negotiate a short sale, loan modification or foreclosure with out an Attorney advising. I now see why that was excellent advice.     Thanks Chad K.

6:49am • #82

Excellent post and great information!  I've had clients asking me this, also.  I can refer them to your post.  Thanks!

6:59am • #83
Localism Sponsor

Hi Richard!  Thanks for a greatly informative post. I've already passed it on to several of my colleagues.  --Thanks again, Joan

7:00am • #84

Thanks for the great info.  I know it took you a lot longer to write this than it did for me to read it.  The info helps to support what we tell our clients in a very confusing arena.

Edward Bachman
7:01am • #85

"The fact of the matter is that we are in uncharted waters and there is no industry standard for Short Sales or Loan Modifications, which makes pinning down exactly what the Lenders may do near impossible."  This paragraph is right on and says it all.  Becareful about calling yourself an expert in this process because their are no guidelines to base you claim on.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Make sure your E&O covers you on this.  Providing advice on mortgages and assisting someone through the short sale process does come under the normal venue of real estate sale services.  This is a high risk transaction and I don't think any amount of disclosures will protect you in court if someone sues.

7:38am • #86

WOW!

WOW!

Thank YOU

This is the best "free legal consultation" I have seen on Short Sales.

Thank You again.

Also this is a written request asking for permission to copy and distribute

the information .

BASILOVECCHIO
7:45am • #87

Richard,

Great information and I say this as someone who almost needed to use it. We were supporting two homes, one in Fl and one in Tn. When I called the lender on the house in Fl (which was for sale and we didn't live there anymore) I was told "why are you calling you are current on your mortgage". We somehow made all payments and the house in Fl was sold. I am in the business and it can get confusing so reading your advice might help others who find themselves possibly heading down this road.

Janet (First Mortgage Lenders) Knoxville, TN
8:32am • #88

Great article that I would love to be able to print, read and keep.  However, it will not print legibly and comes out with printing on top of printing and a bunch of blank pages.  Any suggestions?

norma brewster
8:44am • #89

I've had a lot of clients or callers question if they should pay the mortgage simply b/c they lost equity. I'm glad you didn't go down that path with your blog. When folks talk like that, I think, "where are your ethics?!" That mindset hurts all of long-term as prices continue to decline. I also tell customers, "A home is a place to live for you and your family." Sure, we hope for equity, but like any investment, there is no guarantee.

8:44am • #90

Great article Richard. You've summed it up perfectly. Well deserving gof the newsletter!

8:48am • #91

Richard, great article, great information, great advice.  I wish more agents would take the time to read information like this.  We all know that everyone's situation id different and there is no exact answer or science to short sales.  Thanks for taking the time to educate us all.

Lloyd Reed

ERA Network Real Estate

Lloyd Reed
10:11am • #92

Great Artical,

I agree a bit long of a read but in todays market "the devil is in the details" and they are changing rapidly.

I also think that you SHOULD pay your mortgage if you can. Keeping a roof over ones head is the most important thing. As my Mother always said, Shelter-Food-Transpertation are the three key needs.

Having said this, most banks don't want your house back. They are in the banking business and not the property owning business. Usually if you contact your bank and show good faith, they will work with you.

Eric LaMay
11:35am • #93
192,999 Points 1 Featured Post

Richard-Thanks for sharing a wealth of information.  It's great to have it all in one place instead of in bits and pieces.

11:41am • #94

Richard -

You had a lot of very good, accurate information for all to digest.

With regard to how borrowers will be treated down the road when they go to get a new home loan and the posting above - in this lending climate lenders do not just follow Fannie or Freddie or FHA guidelines anymore.  Almost every lender has overlaying guidelines that are more restrictive than any of the GSE or FHA guidelines.  Even if a loan meets Fannie, Freddie, or FHA guidelines doesn't necessarily ensure a loan approval.  The loans are being made by lenders first and foremost and possibly insured by a PMI company.  The lenders and PMI companies are still risking loss on a loan that defaults even if it has the "backing" of the government agency.  Therefore they are constantly being more and more careful about making loans.  So don't jsut assume that because Fannie's guideline appears to indicate that a short seller can get a loan right away that you'll find a lender that will make that loan.

If a borrower has the means to keep their payments current prior to a short sale, then they will definitely minimize the credit score impact by doing so.  I've seen clients one year out from a short sale with close to 700 credit scores again.  The key will be the overall credit history before and after the short sale and their revolving credit usage.  From experience looking at credit every day, I can tell you that a person's use of credit card debt is the single biggest factor in the credit scoring models.  It also logically tells you what a persons risk of default is (that's what credit scores are supposed to predict).  So homeowners should also take those factors into account when considering what their future plans are and the difficult decisions many are facing these days.

Brian Cardenas (Antigua Capital Funding)
11:54am • #95
226,201 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

It's making my blood boil thinking about that one section about the lenders getting more money if the borrower is late vs current.  I KNEW IT! 

Good post, and it's not like you didn't tell everyone it was going to be long!  Congrats.

12:54pm • #96

Great info and dialogue! I like the ending and it goes for regular transactions as well, "make an educated decision, set a plan and be ready for anything"

-Mako

3:04pm • #97

Excellent post with very practical and useful information.  This morning I spoke with a woman who tried to do the right thing--dutifully paying on her mortgage--until the money ran out.  She is in a desperate situation.    As you suggest, homeowners need to weigh the pros and cons of paying their mortgage early on.  You need to bold your comment : "However, if you need to choose between buying food or medications and paying the mortgage, the decision that should be made is clear: your life necessities take precedent."

I've written a website for homeowners facing foreclosure which readers may want to refer to clients in distress: www.ForeclosedDreams. com.  It covers every aspect of foreclosure. 

Ralph Thompson
3:32pm • #98

Excellent post, thanks for the information.

6:28pm • #99

Great post, I bookmarked it for future reference.

10:33pm • #100
JUN
26
396,234 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

What an excellent post - yes long - but worth the read. Reblogging! ~Rita

12:06am • #101
5 Featured Posts

Norma - you can reprint by copying and pasting into a Word document.  Put the cursor on the start of the article and left click the mouse, then move the cursor to the end and holding the shift button down, left click the mouse again.  then right click the mouse and chose from the pull down menu that appears "copy" and left click on it to choose.  Then go to a Word empty sheet on your screen and right click and the pull down menu again appears. Left click "Paste",.  and you're done!

Gosh - I hope I got this right!

5:08am • #102
JUN
28

Thank you for this information.  These are the kind of posts that make AR so worth using!

Bonnie
1:16pm • #103

Thanks for the information.  It was a long post and I finally had some time to devote to it.  It is a very difficult issue and my clients are always looking for an answer to this problem.  I just don't know how to advise them and asked that very question in my blog.   There are no easy answers but you put it in perspective. 

Thank you.

3:20pm • #104
JUN
29

Yes the post was long but very informative and insightful. I have talked to several past clients who have now either lost their jobs (sometimes both incomes) or a severe cut back in hours (40 hrs to 25-30 hrs depending on the week). I have tried to explain the pros & cons of dropping their payments but your informaton is much more detailed & to the point. In all cases I've told them that before they make a final decision to talk to their servicer first & then talk to a real estate lawyer using what the servicer told them.

Keep articles like this coming as I believe we may see more changes to mortgages as we slowly come out of this financial mess.

3:15pm • #105
JUN
30

Thank you ever so much for this blog.  I am attempting to work with a prospective seller that this might help.  I took the CDPE class here a couple of months ago, and I am still working with feeling totally confident as to how to handle these situations.  Your article is informative and timely.  I love the caring of the bloggers on Active Rain, this is the BEST.

Christine Frazier, ERA Old South Prop Inc. Pensacola Fl
2:37pm • #106
JUL
07

Richard, very enlightening!  Keep the info rolling...

7:45pm • #107
JUL
10

Richard, thank you very much for every details regarding short sale and modifications. 

It is soooo true... Please keep us posted of any new updates.

Rosemarie Fernandez
3:18pm • #108
JUL
14
113,908 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog Hit Router

Richard - you right about "unchartered waters" and who knows when this will end. In the end, it is truly each individuals decision and your article is a great source of information of what is available to borrower to make an informed decision.

6:28am • #109
SEP
07
103,749 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Excellent post, Richard! Thanks for the pros and cons regarding short sales and mortgage modifications, but I give you extra kudos for your closing statement:

"The fact of the matter is that we are in uncharted waters and there is no industry standard for Short Sales or Loan Modifications, which makes pinning down exactly what the Lenders may do near impossible."

So true.

5:51am • #111

Leave a response…



(optional)
What does the graphic say?
 
Rainmaker_large

Richard Zaretsky, Florida Real Estate Attorney

West Palm Beach, FL

More about me…

Richard P. Zaretsky P.A.

Address: 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd, Suite 900, West Palm Beach, Fl, 33401

Office Phone: (561) 689-6660 x 107

Email Me

Legal true life experiences, general observations and commentaries for Realtors, Lawyers and Mortgage Brokers - also see our Palm Beach County Short Sales group blog.


Links

Archives

RSS 2.0 Feed for this blog