In an article today in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, it was reported that it’s becoming commonplace for lenders to refuse to take title to some properties following foreclosure. Why would a bank bother to foreclose and then abandon the property? It’s simple economics. Many of the homes just aren’t worth the bank’s efforts. But then, why would they foreclose? And who ultimately owns such properties? The answers are often as confusing an illogical as the creation of the subprime collapse that precipitated the problem.

 

What’s happening is a crime—perhaps not legally, but figuratively. Sometimes it’s a crime against the very people who have already suffered the most; and other times it’s a crime against neighborhoods trying to recover from issues of high crime and drug dealing. In the words of Catherine Doyle, attorney with the Milwaukee Legal Aid Society, “This is just the meanest and nastiest thing (lenders) could do. Even more profound is the terrible damage to the community.”

 

Abandoned homes become a blight on neighborhoods, havens for drug and criminal activity, and create fire and safety hazards. No longer sources of tax revenue, such homes are a drain on struggling cities resources, and ultimately cost taxpayers thousands more when condemned and bulldozed.

 

The procedure, known in the trade as “walkaways,” is a growing problem, especially for cities, where most are pressed for revenue. The mortgages on these homes, the great majority of which are subprime, were often made by now-defunct mortgage brokers, and are being foreclosed upon by loan servicers on behalf of investor groups often thousands of miles away. And, unfortunately, there appears to be no solution to the problem.

 

Have banks lost their hearts, or is it they never had one? The image of the friendly neighborhood banker was perhaps always a utopian vision; but what they’re doing is egregious on a monumental scale. Throwing people out of their homes, only to have those homes bulldozed later, is not only inhumane, it’s sheer stupidity. Once the owner is forced out, the home falls in to disrepair, may be vandalized, and everyone loses. And, the irony is; when the bank walks away, the original owner is still on the hook for taxes, boarding-up and clean-up fees that can run into the thousands of dollars. It’s a game of no winners.

 

Tips on buying, selling, building, remodeling, and the latest trends in housing: The Housing Guru

 
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206 Comments on Punishing Foreclosure Victims--Some Banks Take One Last Shot

JUL
13
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

There just has to be a better solution.  While I understand the banks' concerns over the precedent of forgiving loans or portions of loans, they lose more in the end. I can't help but believe there's a way to evaluate each case and make adjustments. But then . . . I'm on the outside looking in.

4:06pm • #1
448,946 Points Outside Blog

Well.the problem is the $9.00 an hour employee answering the phone.....many don't really care about what they are doing.

4:38pm • #2
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Konnie - Unfortunately, you're right, but one would think that management would try to determine the best way out of such situations. What they're doing helps no one.

4:44pm • #3
200,138 Points 5 Featured Posts

John,

There needs to be legislation to address this.  The lenders took on the risk and they're the only ones being bailed out.  To let them off the hook in some many ways is pure insanity.

5:06pm • #4
829,201 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

The words "bank" and "heart" in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

No, they do not have a heart.  They look only at the bottom line and shareholder's equity.  That's their job.  Or, that's the banks' perception of their job. 

It's up to the municipalities to keep their feet to the fire and make them act responsibly. 

Not going to happen.

5:14pm • #5
157,629 Points 1 Featured Post

and Konnie....those $9/hour people are in India besides.

5:16pm • #6
139,642 Points 22 Featured Posts

HI John, 

This is just sad. Why would they kick the people out just to let the home go to ruins. Maybe we aren't the type of country where you should get free property, but come on seriously? This makes my blood boil... :(

-Lisa

5:21pm • #7
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Brian - Not only are the lenders off the hook, they're leaving the homeowner "holding the bag."

Lenn - I think you're right.  There seems to be no acceptable solution, but it is sad for many of the owners and for the neighborhoods.

Karen - Mentally in "Neverland."

5:21pm • #8
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lisa - I can't help but wish for a solution. It's so senseless.

5:22pm • #9
281,053 Points 3 Featured Posts

here they are bull dozing ones built before 78 because of the lead base point deal but I don't know abotu any others. Doesn't make sense.

5:26pm • #10
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Charles - You would think there would be a sensible solution short of destruction.

5:29pm • #11
638,181 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

John- This is just one more step towards someone in congress to push for the government to step in and buy these houses from the lenders and turn them into government owned housing, wherein the government becomes landlord, (yet they can not even read a bill or take care of their own mess) and then we can remember Stalin's experiment. I am not being far fetched on this as there are already proponants to this idea. Katerina

5:34pm • #12
211,558 Points 4 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John this is a crying shame.  And not banks don't have a heart!  They could care less about anything but their bottom line.  I'm not seeing this happening in Phoenix but I do know it's going on in other parts of the country.  What a mess.  Seems nuts to toss the people out and then abandon the home.

5:40pm • #13
325,862 Points Outside Blog

Hi John

Foreclosing and then abandoning the property doesn't make sense; there a number of thing that could be done with the home including deeding it back to the homeowner.

Good luck and success.

Lou Ludwig

5:42pm • #14
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Nestor & Katerina - I doubt that will happen for most of the homes.  Soon after the owners are forced out, many of the homes are vandalized beyond repair.  

Anna - It's definitely a crazy scenario.

5:44pm • #15
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lou - The only thing the banks are leaving for the homeowners is the bill. 

5:46pm • #16
116,757 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hey John . . . good post and my thought is; might not be a totally bad thing.  Here's why, if the bank forecloses, then walks away, the property is still being assessed with taxes.  So the county, or other taxing authority can place a tax lien, file the lien and obtain the property through their lien.  Then they can sell the property.  They can sell it to lower income families (single parents) for a less then market price, for example, and keep the proceeds for MUCH needed county funding programs, etc. 

 

5:51pm • #17
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Carla - Unfortunately, the cities move much too slowly for that to work.  They do file tax liens as well as liens for the cost of boarding up, but then delay so long that the properties become worthless. They could do as you suggest, but they're not.

5:55pm • #18
435,593 Points 10 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I think all muncipalities should hold the homeowner or bank responsible for teardown costs

5:58pm • #19
152,217 Points 1 Featured Post

That is a good idea Carla.  Too bad city officials drag their feet too.

6:02pm • #20
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Russ - The original owners still hold the tab for teardown, but if they're broke it won't make much difference.

Angelia - The cities seem to move more slowly than the banks.

 

6:08pm • #21
153,040 Points 9 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John - I'd like to hear how this is done legally?  Then you are saying the title is still in the borrower's name?

6:11pm • #22
116,757 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

That's a real shame!!  I knew government "works' " stall at the snail's pace . . . what a shame!!  Now that's an oxymoron -- Government Works!

 

6:18pm • #23
155,486 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I'm not in title, so I'm just working through this in writing. Title companies do not want to take title because they are concerned about the liability for an recorded liens that may occur either prior to foreclosure (and then did not pop up in time) or during the time that the bank owned the property, prior to the sale to the new buyer. Wouldn't the ones that occur during the time before the bank sells the home be the bank's problem anyway--like unpaid property taxes, HOA liens, etc? When ush comes to shove, wouldn't the bank be responsible for that stuff anyway--and then the title would be cleared?

Just talking through all of the ramifications . . . but it is sure a shame. I definitely agree with you on that!

6:33pm • #24
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Wendy - According to the article, the banks instruct their attorney not to complete the deal and assume title. It is strange. 

Carla - I doubt there is a solution in the short term. Long term, we'd need some legislation to force the banks to take possession--and responsibility--if they proceed with foreclosure.

Melissa - It seems that if the banks fail to transfer title, the former owner is still on the hook for taxes, city bills for boarding up, fines, etc.

6:45pm • #25
293,051 Points 100 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

What is most amazing to me, is that perhaps these same banks could have saved themselves a whole heap of money by working with these homeowners instead of throwing them out of their homes.  It's a sad situation...there are no winners here.

7:11pm • #26
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lola - Yes, that's the amazing part--and a bit shortsighted too.

7:18pm • #27
1 Featured Post Outside Blog Hit Router

I think this is a well written article.  I was not aware of the "Wlak away".  So I learned something new and valuable today.  Thank you! 

8:41pm • #28
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Nevin - I think we all learned from this practice, and need to try to bring about change. 

9:10pm • #29

This is a new one on me too.

If I carry this to its logical conclusion than the next step will be at the tax sale...So a new owner could be found that way...but if no one bids at the tax sale the city or county will be the proud owner.

Ive seen this before, here in Lee County Fl there was a time when certain vacant lots were worth less than the tax bill, and in Baltimore I saw inner city homes that were worth less than a few years of taxes. In Baltimore it got bad enough that even the city would not take ownership.....bring on the Bulldozers

This is a little off topic, but still relevant.....I just saw a new listing. The asking price is $20000. This for a home that sold for $250k a few years ago. The reason is 1) the current  over supply of homes and 2) Chinese drywall.  If too many more of these problem homes are discovered the solution will be the bulldozer

9:47pm • #30
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ron, a couple of months ago I wrote a post, New homes In California Being Torn Down, where the bank brought in a bulldozer to avoid having to maintain them. While they had been vandalized, some of them were completed model homes.

9:55pm • #31
344,802 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I'm trying to understand how the bank can foreclose and not transfer title.  If the owner is still on title does that mean he doesn't have to move and can live there for the cost of upkeep and taxes?  After all, wouldn't he still be the one on title?

10:13pm • #32
187,807 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Just when you think people can't act dumber, they go and surprise you again!

10:31pm • #33
575,436 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

To start with, make the banks accept title.  If they foreclose, they own the house and are responsible for taxes and issues that arise on the property... then they might be more likely to deal with the "owner"... 

11:11pm • #34
1 Featured Post

Food for thought -  In my area it takes approximately 5 years before the local govt can auction off a property to collect taxes. While Tax liens take precedence over all other liens 5 yrs is a long time to do without money necessary to pay for govt operations. In the meantime, property values are declining, neighborhoods are blighted, and the property tax revenues based on property values are eroding monthly. Local govts. need to pass legislation that allows them properly define an abandoned property and allows them to take action within a year of abandonment.

11:36pm • #35
JUL
14
341,066 Points Outside Blog

This is sadly happening in Arizona also -- we know of people who have had this happen to them -- and after thinking the banks had taken their homes, they learned much later the banks never completed the foreclosure and now the people are still on the line for back taxes, HOA, etc -- -months and months after they were forced out of the homes and moved and have tried to get on with their lives. It is all very sad how this is happening.

2:54am • #36
317,651 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I guess that is common in areas where inexpensive Real Estate still exists. . . I doubt that is the case in my area. . what people fail to recognize is that banks aren't emotional and they will do only what is good for business and still be legal.

4:41am • #37
280,369 Points 4 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ill take them.If the property's are that cheap that the banks dont want them they can be rehabbed by a non profit for people who need them. Homeless ones!

6:41am • #38
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Christina - According to the report, the owner is still on the title, but by the time they makes that discovery, most of the homes have been vandalized beyond repair.

Steve - It just gets "curiouser and curiouser."

Lane - I agree.

George - Yes, the time lag is one of the problems.

Bob & Carolin - Apparently the banks have discovered that they don't have to assume ownership--and the accompanying bills.

Fernando - You've got it. It's about the bottom line.

Laura - There are several options, but the one that's being exercised is the worst.

7:43am • #39

On your original blog you stated that even after foreclosure th original owner is still on the hook for cleanup, taxes and boarding up. In Florida when a bank forecloses on a borrower the house goes to auction and if no one bids what the bank is owed, the bank then becomes the new owner of the house. Therefore, the bank is now responsible for taxes, boarding up, clean-up. What I have seen here in certain neighborhoods, the banks here are not foreclosing on the properties for that very reason. They don't want to take over the taxes, clean-up, etc. Same problem different approach.

Carlos M Gonzalez - Orlando, FL
8:27am • #40

What is sad is the people that bought those homes with the intention of never making a payment.  The lenders are saying the same things you are saying about them.  Expect they are saying them about the Realtors and lenders that pushed people to buy these homes just so they could make a commission and the government for another one of thier failed socialist policies.

If you are sincere along with the rest of your fellow realtors chiming in about minimum wage workers give up real estate and start donating your time to help the truley needing.

 

Steve
8:32am • #41

Great article.  Definitely a shame what banks are allowed to do after receiving government funds. 

8:36am • #42

John, 

We have only seen this once in the Seattle area.  The homes were new construction, show homes.  It was ashame.  It is interesting that the banks are able to get away with this.  WE give them money to bail them out for past mistakes and them almost with venom they go after the home owner not even willing to try and negotiate with them.  It is a sad situation.  I think we are going to see this become more commonplace before things get better.  I do agree, there should be laws put into place to protect the neighborhoods and the homeowners.  If the government could only move as fast on this issue as they did on the bank bailout.

8:37am • #43

John, thanks for getting the word out and starting a discussion. I'm with Carla and Laura, thinking there must be some sensible solution.

Wish Habitat for Humanity could be given the properties, maybe for the cost of back taxes. That's a group that knows how to accomplish something wonderful!

8:38am • #44
1 Featured Post

And isn't it amazing that so many of the cities facing all these foreclosures are ALSO FACING HUGE HOMELESS POPULATIONS!   So we have houses without anyone living in them...and we have people with no roof over their heads.

Is this a great system or what!

8:40am • #45

It is beyond disgusting what the lenders are doing.  Not only are you dealing with $9.00 employees, a lot of them are temp workers just waiting to get back into their regular field.  The banks have no heart for anything but their bottom line.

It's gone way past a real estate transaction.  This continuous behavior on the part of lenders and later local governments is going to bring down the American economy and others outside the country that bought that pig with lip stick and a bow on its head from us as an investment.

Unfortunately, the 'solution' may very well be the government stepping in -- and what kind of American will we have afterward?  They don't do anything well except make of mess out of whatever they touch.

Margaret Kees
8:43am • #46

One would think that banks would want the asset, either performing or non-performing so that they could recoup some of their losses.  Rehabbed or not, there is a price for every property.  If there is an HOA that is not being paid, perhaps they could take over the property via the courts (non-payment of dues) so that it could be sold and the homeowners association would at least be able to keep going.

I personally think the mortgage industry needs to be totally revamped.  Perhaps to a simple interest basis like cars or boats.  Further, the assumable mortgage needs to be reinstated.  That would alleviate a lot since some people could go in and purchase without credit questions.  It would certainly help good people who got caught in this current debacle.  As to the business practices of the banks...well, they are the banks, and can do what they want.  They have the money.  However, just because they have the money doesn't make them smart. 

Cynthia Lightcap
8:44am • #48

Wouldn't it make better sense to forgive part of the debt and allow the homeowner to stay in the house instead of having another foreclosure bringing down home values in the neighborhood? But as it has already been said....this is a bank and they are thinking about the bottom line / investors interests not the property owners welfare.

Janet (First Mortgage Lenders) Knoxville, TN
8:44am • #49
2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John - indeed, no solution. I am thinking about legal mess for the future homeowners. Even buldozed, these pieces of Real Estate will still need to have a marketable title, which seems to be a big problem. I can imagine that title insurance for this kind of situation should sky rocket. Whan a bad impact on the communities and all the future home owners!

 

8:47am • #50
2 Featured Posts

You know, there are many old adages, or sayings created just for the purpose of making (even the simplest) people think twice about doing things that don't look far enough down the road. "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" jumps to mind, "cutting your nose off to spite your face" also seems to work.

What is truly mind boggling here is the lack of sense in regards to the banking industry's own future. By creating such enormous sink-holes of money, draining all of society's varied reserves (tax bases, homeowner equity, neighbourhood values, etc.) all the banks are doing is undermining the very foundations they base their existence upon. "Shooting themselves is the foot" so to speak.

For Real Estate, we have a code of ethics, in my district the code has been written into law. Violations of this code are now criminal offenses. Perhaps a code for banks that carries some serious consequences when in violation would be well advised here. That way nobody can simply say that "it's just business" when "just business" is hurting everyone and benefitting no one. There's a disconnect of responsibility here, where nobody believes it's their problem. Like it or not, it's everyone's problem, but it's primarilly the gatekeepers responsibility to find solutions.

When the problems are financial, then the gatekeepers are the various financial institutions that are now creating more problems. Somebody needs to "hold their feet held to the fire", and have them "take a hard look in the mirror" so they see what chaos they have wrought, for the country and for themselves.

It's too bad it always seems to come back to regulation. In principle I love the idea of a mostly unregulated world where there is less paperwork and less red tape. But reality keeps reminding me that people are who they are, and the same things repeat themselves over and over when we're given too much rope to hang ourselves with. I think the best old adage for this issue has to be "don't be stupid" - which is probably not an addage, but it sure seems to fit!

That's enogh cliche's for me - here's hoping there's "a light at the end of the tunnel" (oops... one more! ;o)

8:47am • #51

All the banks care about is their net profit. There are no people to them. Just a loan number that represents an investment whether it is good or bad. They could care less who ends up on the street or how what they do affects anyone or anything else.

Mark
8:49am • #52

I agree with Lola in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Why aren't banks working with homeowners instead of forcing them out of their homes.

 

 

Sharon A. Parisi
8:51am • #53

I've heard estimates that say over 50% of the Detroit metro area would need to be dulldozed before the housing market there would be able to 'soak up' the excess supply. 

It's an amazing phenomenon that were experiencing right now.

8:55am • #54

John,

Well written, good comments, sad to say, all true. I've been, and still am, in the banking end for over 30 years, and the bank ONLY cares about it's bottom line, period! Banks don't have a heart, they have a board of money makers, that's it. Some banks allow you to get a file done when others wouldn't, but the client has to pay a "premium" on their rate. I agree there should be a better way, the local governments could speed up the process, but they are afraid of making somebody mad. That somebody is usually the bankers that backed the election, so round and round we go.

 

Sincerely,

Jim Pendleton- MrMortgage

Jim Pendleton - Mr Mortgage
8:57am • #55
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor

Carla - regarding the tax lein and county takeover... in WI it takes 2-3 YEARS to obtain a property outright through the tax sale process since there is such a long redemption period.

8:58am • #56
1 Featured Post

No. It wouldn't make sense to take back title, then rent it to the home owner. 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing...

No wonder I pay a fee to get my own money in a bank?!?!?!?

8:58am • #57

Here is what I would do: If the banks or lenders don't want them back for what ever reason, ED them to the city.  Now the city owns them.  Sell or donate them to NPO's who can rehab them. You can always find someone who wants a really cheap home! And as for these $9.00/hr folks, well I don't care if they make min. wage if you don't have respect for the job you do and how you do it, then I sure don't want you working for me no matter what your hourly rate is.

Respectfully,

Ken D.
8:58am • #58

The local government through ordinance need to make abandonment more the more expensive alternative.  Fines, liens on other property, pension find business, banking business, bond underwriting business could be pulled from the bank perpetrators.  The banks will also have to be liable for their asset manager capos.

8:59am • #59
217,918 Points 4 Featured Posts

Banks and hearts in the same sentence??? surely you jest???  it all comes down to simple math the foreclosure takes place because of the non payment and then they figure out after the fact that they dont want the asset. It could actually be a good thing for towns since they will ultimately "own" the home due to non payment of taxes

Business is Business.  It often doesnt look good on the surface, But if it doesnt make sense to have it on the books, why put it there?

9:00am • #60

Thanks for the new term "walkaways".    Banks do not care about anything except the bottom line, if they take back the property, it would go on their books as a "toxic' asset/loan.  They should take it back and deed it to a local housing authority to be given to someone that needs a home.  At least they could write it off as a charity deduction...

9:00am • #61

I read the story in the sentinal and I believe you are misrepresenting what is really happening - correct me if I am wrong. What gives the bank the right to evict someone? They must foreclose, become the new owner, and that gives them the right to evict. They don't have the right to evict the previous owner until they foreclose and accept title.

The reason we use the term "Walkaways" is that the owner walked away and then the bank refuses to foreclose - leaving the owner with the responsibility. The bank will automatically start the foreclosure process if the borrower stops making payments. When they determine the borrower has walked away and the property is not worth taking they do what makes sense - why should they take on the responsibility?

This makes a lot more sense to me and if this is the case then the original borrower is responsible. It is not a matter of heartless banks, it's a matter of borrowers walking away from their responsibility during the foreclosure process. It's up to the homeowner to find out if they were actually foreclosed on.

The solution is to start with education and this is a good start. Homeowners need to be educated that they cannot be evicted if they are still on title.

I believe this article is misleading and blames banks unnecessarily.

9:01am • #62
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Carlos - On the cases I mentioned, unless the mortgage debt is discharged in court, the original owner is still on the title.

Steve - Don't quite get your comment, but many of these were homes where the owner refinanced--owners who had been there, sometimes for decades, and just wanted to pull out some extra cash.

Brian - Yes, and in some cases, the same banks who've received billions of dollars.

Terry - Government doesn't seem to be able to move fast except when lobbyists are involved.

Lottie - It would be nice to see some practical solution.

Judi - And we're kicking more people out of homes--go figure.

 

9:04am • #63

John,

I notice that your post blames everyone but the borrower.

Are all borrowers victims?

Did any of the homeowners involved abandon all common sense when they made the obligation to buy the property?

Were all borrowers involved the victims of brokers, appraisers, agents bankers, and securitizers?

The article gives a good example to answer that question in - the section about Mr. Lewis and the home next to his that was purchased by Latoya Lewis.

"County records show Latoya Wesley bought the house in 2006 with a subprime mortgage loan. It was one of five properties the Milwaukee woman bought around that time."

Is Mr Lewis a victim? Yes he is. Is Latoya Wesley a victim? Not in this lifetime.

Maybe a court in the area will do the right thing and give the homes to a group like Habitat for Humanity.

9:05am • #64
3 Featured Posts

Are those banks that got bailed out?  That would make sense, why take it back if they already got money for it?  What I am not understanding is if they foreclose but don't take title, how can the homeowner still be liable for anything on the property?  They were foreclosed on, there have to be records of that somewhere.  If not, and the owner is still on title, then why don't they stay?  If the bank isn't going to take title to the property, and it's still in the name of the owner, that means it's still their house right?

Banks could totally be helping during this time to get this mess over with and to keep it from going too much further, but they don't care.  THey are shooting themselves in the foot, but it is also hurting the entire economy as well.  Our legislators and president are only doing what they can to save the banks and their big wigs at the top, for whatever reason, banks too big to fail.  Would we really have been in a worse mess if the banks were forced to redo their business practices or truly try to help people save their homes and if some of them did fail?  I haven't seen any of those billions of dollars trickle down to any of my clients.  THey should have taken those billions and just helped pay everyone's loans, for all the good that it's doing the way they're spending it.

9:06am • #65

IF, we can get the lenders to take the current mortgage , modify it to where the borrower could afford a new monthly payment. Now I mean afford it. I had a lady in she was two payments behind, she actually just didn't make enough o pay these payments. They would not modify her loan, said she didn't qualify. OK, so she didn't qualify? but you would allow her to let the home go back?then the bank has foreclosure proceedings, evictions, attorney costs, management cost then it devalues the neighborhood. I see at least a 14% loss for the lender. and they can't modify her loan? now that is what I call not to common sense. well in the banking businesses budget the budget for loss,foreclosures, loans etc. so if they are under budget.let the home go back.

Tom Thomason
9:07am • #66
4 Featured Posts

Mixed emotions on this one... We need to remember that the banks are taking a beating right now.... while it's no excuse but in My opinion... local municipalities need to come up with solutions. 

Back taxes are owed... seize the property and use some community creativity to make some lemonade out of the lemons ... Of course.. that takes some real leadership.

As for the excuse of how long it takes in some states to seize the property... whose fault is that??

9:07am • #67
134,485 Points 8 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

"The words "bank" and "heart" in the same sentence is an oxymoron."

Lenn so said it best! Gone are the days when you went into your local bank, sat down with a bank officer, they asked about your family, job, etc. and then you talked about your banking business.

We've become a very, very, very impersonal world, and we now deal with $9/hour employees who don't give a crap about what's going on. Heck...they HAVE A JOB!!!!!

We, yes WE THE PEOPLE, because it's our money, gave billions to "save" the banks. So what are they doing to "save us." Jack crap.

Why is it so much easier to foreclose on someone, and sit with an asset on your hands, than to work with the people and help them out. Ok, you lost your job.....you are on the hook for all these mortgage payments, and we will talk every 3 months and you let us know what you are doing to get work, maybe sell if you think you can, and we will work with you to keep you in your home. We are not giving you anything, but help till you get back on your feet.

Corporate American Greed. There are days it makes we want to sell everything and leave this country.

9:08am • #68
Outside Blog

As has been often said here and elsewhere, homeowners should stay in their houses until the new title holder asks them to leave.  Not the POTENTIAL new titleholder, but the ACTUAL new titleholder. That way if the bank refuses to take title then the homeowner stays in his home and the empty and abandoned house problems are reduced --  and maybe fewer folks would be living under bridges.

9:12am • #69
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Margaret - While the solution may not be as simple as it first appears, there must be a better way to deal with these homes. What they're doing is senseless.

Richard - Yes, we have lots of problems, but we're not stupid--we just sometimes act that way.

Cynthia - The first step for the banks should be to try to work out a solution with the owner. Even if they reduce principle, they'll receive some benefit--better than walking away.

Janet - Yes, forgiving some of the debt would certainly work in some instances. At least it's a start.

Svetlana - And the vacant lots can also pose neighborhood problems.

Stephen - "Being Stupid," pretty much describes it.

 

9:13am • #70

Thanks for the article.  I wasn't aware of this new development in the sub-prime mess.

I'm struggling to understand how the prior owners are "victims."  Are you really insinuating that the banks are taking one last shot out of malice?  That they have nothing better to do than think of ways to "punish" the "victims?"

The blame lies with all the parties.  The article even mentions it. "Mortgages were readily available to all. Subprime loans were doled out to borrowers with questionable financial track records or those who could not, or would not, document their income. The mortgages were packaged as securities and sold to investors across the globe."

Sounds like a great business plan, doesn't it.

Does this sound like a victim?  In March 2008, German-based Deutsche Bank sued Lass for foreclosure. The bank was acting as a trustee for investors who bought the mortgage. Judge Timothy Dugan issued the foreclosure judgment in May 2008, the same month the city opened a condemnation file on the property.

"I didn't even go to the (foreclosure) hearing," Lass said. "I was like, 'You know what, take the house.' I felt terrible."

Yeah, maybe he felt terrible but maybe he should have felt responsible and made sure that he was clear of any further ownership.

One more quote: "It's a common thing for people to say, 'I'm being foreclosed on - goodbye,' " said Jay Unora, an assistant city attorney who prosecutes building-code violations.

"These people are winding up with a lot of headaches."

Do these people not owe some responsibility for the situation?  Shouldn't they try to make sure that they aren't responsible instead of just walking away?

This whole sub-prime situation is a bloody mess.  I agree that the mortgage companies that originated and serviced the loans have an equitable stake in the responsibility of cleaning up the mess they made; but to insinuate that the owners that were foreclosed on are victims is disingenuous at best.

From reading the article, the real victims are the neighboring property owners, not the banks and not the prior homeowners.

One more point.  A commentor says "might not be a totally bad thing.  Here's why, if the bank forecloses, then walks away, the property is still being assessed with taxes.  So the county, or other taxing authority can place a tax lien, file the lien and obtain the property through their lien.  Then they can sell the property.  They can sell it to lower income families (single parents) for a less then market price, for example, and keep the proceeds for MUCH needed county funding programs, etc."

What happens to the neighbor who's property values now take a hit from the lower sale amounts?  What about the neighbor a few blocks over?  They're going to drop.  Will that lead to a new round of loan defaults?  The government should sell it for market value and not at a lower rate.  Will the new "low income" owner have to pay less taxes than their neighbor who paid full price?  Where will the low income purchaser get funds to rehab the home?  That's a slippery slope that no community needs to go down.

9:16am • #71

I run a nationwide loss mitigation company and obviously state laws vary however the realty is this.....it's not the bank per say making the decision. Any/all offers have to be brought up for investor approvals. Prior to even getting to the point of foreclosure we as professionals have to stand up and present benefit worksheets/foreclosure cost analyst to the lenders in order to prevent this......

now to address a lot of info I have read here....

1.These are investors!!! meaning millionaires..do you know who lends you the money when you get a mortgage from  BOA or WAMU as an example....The "lenders name" is a fancy dress for an individual who lends (invest) in Mortgage backed securities...

 2. Not all lenders have accepted bail out money, hence they are not required to do anything...in addition to make it worse.....for those lenders that did accept bail out monies there are anti-trust laws within the "investors" contracts that dictates what services can and cannot do....i.e. modify, short sale, etc...

3. Lenders... (and I was one for a bit myself) SUCK....but the reality is (behind the scenes) there is just so much we don't know, and what may appear to make sense in realty clearly doesn't as there is just so much red tape we are all unaware of.

When a client engages are services I take the gloves off as this foolishness is getting out of hand. I evoke rights we have and seldom use ( I encourage all of you to use this!) "As such, please treat this letter as a Qualified Written Request under the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act, codified as Title 12 § 2605 (e)(1)(B) (e) and Reg. X § 3500.21(f)2 of the United States Code as well as a request under Truth In Lending Act [TILA] 15 U.S.C. § 1601, et seq. RESPA provides substantial penalties and fines for non-compliance or failure to answer my questions provided in this letter within sixty (60) days of its receipt!" there is much more to this letter....but Sec 6 gives you all rights....USE THEM

 

I don't want to run off topic as I appear to have done, but when you're dealing with a group of investors who has suffered millions in loss's you have to ask yourself....do they have the resources to keep these on the books.... if they have to..... as REO's...... the answer is YES.....

 

They can leverage and make more in a pool of distressed assets and even if they take 20-35 cents on the dollar on a....5mm pool they probably have insurance (which is another avenue we as professionals need to do......you heard ME!!!!!!! Contact their insurance companies and present them offers) so they can make more in a bundle than individually.

 

It is an unfortunate truth! Now if you're not happy seeing these homes buy them, there Govt monies out there for such a thing. The bottom line (in my point of view) a family was uprooted and a lender could of done more had they used professionals to assist them...

 

Now in regards to that article you read, we do not know the situation so we are all speculating. We do not know if that homeowner simply gave up and walked as that happens every day.....I have homeowners throw me there deeds and say keep it I'm tired of this...

 

Robert
9:17am • #72
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Mark - While it is about the money, it appears the banks aren't thinking it through. They could receive some money, and that would be better than none.

Sharon - Good question with no answer.

Stuart - Detroit is "ground zero" for this problem.

Jim - Thanks for your comments. Surely the bankers can see that there's a better way. We just need someone to take the first step.

Matt - And that's a big part of the problem. By the time such sales are held, the properties are no more than vacant lots.

Michael - That's why it appears that the banks are not thinking it through. Sure it's a hassle, but it could add to the bottom line.

9:21am • #73

Behind every sub-prime loan was a Realtor anxious to close a deal John. Conventional lending and wisdom said "TOO MUCH RISK" but:

Banks and institutional lenders were nearly mandated by legislators like ol Barney Franks to design a loan for those folks of every stripe, those challenged with no financial where-with-all.

Banks made those loans, mortgage brokers didn't. More importantly, banks put themselves in a position to eventually cull the market of mortgage brokers and they are now controlling a big chunk of real estate transactions.

I'm not surprised a small per centage of bank-owned (or potentially bank-owned) get thrown out with the bath water; that's small potatoes (thought that earlier poster would appreciate that one!) now that taxpayer money is shoring up banker's ledgers.

The banking institution is evolving and doing so on our dime. Has anyone else noticed a glut of the " how much we care, ain't we got heart" bank ads on TV recently...

 

 

Paul Harford
9:21am • #74

If they go to that much trouble, they could at least give the homes away to a non-profit or something like that.  I have never seen a home so bad that is doesn't have a little bit of value.

I recall when I worked for CIT repossession mobile homes, it was common to release our lien on the title if the MH was in horrible condition or if the lot rent owed exceeded the homes value.  Granted this is a crappy mobile we're talking about but I think the situations are similar.

I know people, myself included who would take a free home.  Don't you?

9:22am • #75

Thank you for bringing this unethical practice to our attention.  But as we all know, local and federal government respond to a collective voter coalition effort.  We, as Realtors, are apart of a larger voice in getting municipalities, localities and federal government to make the necessary changes to get the appropriate banks and/or lending instutions to be more responsible for their actions especially when it involves this foreclosure countrywide and now worldwide delimna.  Are any of you an active member of your local Realtor Political Action Committee (RPAC)?  This organization is a sub-committee of your local Board of Realtors focussed on government affairs.  If you do not have an active Realtor Government Affairs committee within your Board of Realtors, you can contact our Atlanta Board of Realtors and ask for our Government Affairs contact....or contact your state Board of Realtors.  I challenge each of you and all others that are concerned with this major foreclosure bank issue to become actively involved with your local RPAC.  If you are truly concerned with the neighborhoods that you live in and build as Realtors, take action NOW.  Bring this problem to your local, state and federal governments to make a change.  Good Luck!  God Bless America! 

Petra Parker
9:23am • #76
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I am having a hard time understanding how this can take place... if the bank fails to transfer title, then the owner is still the owner, and need not vacate the house. Simply calling the loan does not result in eviction. the only way the bank can evict the homeowners is if they have title and take possession of the property, yes? If they do not do this, then the owner remains the owner, and need not move out... if the owner is liable for fees, taxes, etc., then they remain on title. All tehy need to do is go to the sherrifs office and show that they own the property, and they will be allowed back in...

Of course, I assume most of these folks dont know this, and dont have the resources to find a good attorney... but there are logical inconsistencies in this, that I believe might not stand up if scrutinized...

My understanding is that a lien can be called, and force the sale of the house, but foreclosure involves repossession, and so the bank in these instances must assume title, or forego foreclosure. Where is this being done, and how?

9:26am • #77
121,089 Points 22 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I really think that banks should be on the hook for the prior owner's penalties if they make those folks homeless and then don't take title and let the place be bulldozed.  It makes no sense logically and it needs to create pain financially for them to stop it.

9:26am • #78
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I can see how the bank would foreclose and then abandon the property, but then the homeowner would not be liable for any fees, etc. One way or the other, but not some vague and nebulous combination of things...

I would think any good foreclosure attorney could combat this successfully.

9:27am • #79

Yep, alot of talk about stopping forclosures  and the banks are still ploughing ahead. Write to your congress people and senators. Things will only change when people in this country start taking action and showing that they won't take this anymore. Politicians will act if they know they are going to lose votes.

Felix
9:30am • #80

I don't know what the answer is . . . but there IS an answer.  Perhaps renegotiating the mortgages such that the borrowers pay much less in mortgage payments would help. 

Why is it that the government is helping the mortgage banks out again?  Seems that of late all I hear about is the mortgage banks hurting the public.

9:39am • #81

I have had enough experience with lenders to realize that logic is not a requirement for a job in the REO industry.  First off, had there been a requirement that said if you get a W-2 you cannot use a stated income product ~ this alone may have saved the meltdown.

Then I think it would alway be better to help a home owner in their home.  Though in Michigan, it all comes back to jobs and if you don't have a job, there may not be any hope for staying in the home.  We may need legislation to prod the lender's along in managing their REO properties.

Jay Spencer
9:41am • #82
Hit Router

They would be better off donating them to Habitat for Humanity, letting them fix it up and give it to someone who appreciates it. The bank would at least get a tax break, a wotrth family gets a nice home, ant the community benefits from the improvemnets.

9:50am • #83
128,164 Points 4 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Bailouts are cancer and bankrupcty is the cure. 

The banks should have been allowed to fail and then a much quicker and sane solution would be in place.

9:51am • #84
104,061 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

How bad do the abandoned home areas have to get until the city or county has to do something about it? Does it take a news story?

9:52am • #85
147,982 Points 9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

If the lender refuses to take title, then the title would remain in the hands of the original owner.  Now there would be no mortgage as that was removed by the foreclosure.  Therefore, couldn't the owner move back into the home and live in it and perhaps even sell it? 

9:52am • #86
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ken - Speeding up the process with accountability is critical to solving the problem.

Thomas - Yes, the cities must take charge.

Robert - I understand the bank's position, but wish they would participate in the solution. A quick transfer to the city might be a step, but of course, that would take cooperation from the local govt.

Kenneth - Yes, they should DO SOMETHING.

US Capital - Yes, in many cases the owner, after being served foreclosure notices moves out, not wanting his furniture to be put on the street. But the banks later decide not to complete the foreclosure, and of course, do not notify the owner. Some homes do go through the sheriff's sale, as the article points out, but some of the deeds are never returned to the court for confirmation, leaving the owner still holding title.

 

9:56am • #87

The big banks never really had a heart.  It's all about the bottom line.  They fed off the consumer during the boom, they fed off the taxpayer when they lost their buts, and now they continue and will always continue to protect their interests and nobody else's.  It doesn't surprise me that they are abandoning properties.  I had a deal recently with a small local bank.  There was a minor issue at settlement so the loan officer, who was at settlement by the way, said "no problem".  He corrected the problem and within a couple hours everything was resolved and settlement was done.  If it was a big bank, it would have had to go back to underwriting in who knows where and we would have settled a month later.  To say the least, I have been recommending their services to all my clients.

Demetri Koutsokostas,Alpha State Realty
10:06am • #88

John,

I had never thought about this issue. What's to stop the original owners from moving back in?  They would have FREE living expensives, if the bank isn't accepting the title and no one would be the wiser!

Kathy Opatka

10:07am • #89
Localism Sponsor

What an incredible waste!

Why can't they give them to a church or Habitat for humanity and fix them up for families to enjoy?

10:09am • #90
Outside Blog Hit Router

John,

Very good and thoughtful post.  I think that this practice should be made illegal. If the banks are going to foreclose on the home then they should have to take title. Period. No ifs, ands or buts!

Kim Thomas, Voorhees, NJ Real Estate Broker

www.KimThomasHomes.com

10:13am • #91

"Foreclosure Victims"...Now that's the oxymoron.  You can have victims of identity theft...victims of murder...victims of a hurricane, but people that get foreclosed on are NOT victims.  They made an agreement to pay, then failed to satisfy that agreement.  They knew what the consequences would be if they didn't satisfy that agreement as well.

Secondly, the term "walkaways" does not have anything to do with banks.  This is just a terribly misleading article that is full of inaccuracies.  "Walkaways" are the homeowners that refuse to contact their lender to look at modification options.  These people simply walkaway from their home.  By the time the bank figures out what has happened, the homes have been vandalized, oftentimes by the homeowners as they were "walking away". 

Banks can work out solutions for troubled homeowners if they are just responsible enough to pick up the phone and try to work something out.  The problems listed in this article aren't stemming from unwilling lenders...they are stemming from unwilling and irresponsible homeowners who would rather just walk away than to even try to fix the situation.  Over 95% of foreclosures occur in this county because the homeowners never sought help.  If they do reach out for help, there is a very minimal chance that a foreclosure will occur before some type of modification or resolution is created to help.

I see a ton of Realtors who have responded to this post that are "piling on".  What we should be doing is educating everyone that we can that "walking away" from your home is NOT the answer.  It's all of our jobs to educate people on the realities of the situation rather than throwing others under the bus, and doing nothing to help solve the problem. 

John, I can see that you are very passionate about this subject.  I just wish some additional research would have been done before posting this ridiculously skewed article.  Let's keep educating...let's keep promoting positivity in our fields.  We are smack-dab in the middle of one of the single best times in history to buy real estate, and we are focusing on this negative "half-truth" garbage.

Chad Trease
10:17am • #92
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Full Service - Of course some of the homeowners bought properties they couldn't afford; and of course, they share in the blame.  There have been many articles written about that problem; this wasn't one of them.

Amy - In the cases described in the article, the banks are failing to finalize the foreclosure; and of course, don't bother to tell the original owner.

Tom - Banks just need to try to cooperate.

Paul - I agree that the municipalities need to take the offensive.

Thom & Ray - Don't leave; just help us work this mess out : )

Thomas - That's what some attorneys are advising their clients facing foreclosure.

 

10:19am • #93

Banks are not known for being reasonable or logical. It is about numbers. They played the numbers when the market was hot, they are playing the numbers when the market is down.

They look at the aggregate picture as they are dealing with billions of dollars. The analogy is like saying a baker is concerned with the crumbs of the bread...

Banks use financial models to get an overall profitability by playing the market and the politicians we think we elect, and the policies and laws they enact thanks to the lobbyists working for big corporations and special interest groups...

They dangle the specter of major global failure and doom in front of a largely unedudated and un-interested public to justify worthless and costly "bailouts".

The day the people will wake up and realize our politicians do not care about anything but their cushy jobs and benefits and demand accountability. The day, the people become aware that the two party system is a big farce and that really foreign interests control our nation (Ever heard of the "Federal"??? Reserve ? which is as Federal as FEDEX... but yet controls everything including the money printing...)... and we could go on and on, but what is the point ? Most people care about themselves and that is why the masses are preyed upon by the eagles at the top. It has been like that since the beginning...

Go with the flow...

Ben
10:23am • #94
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hate to be the one on the other end but maybe we should all look at it from another angle. We receive calls all the time from people in Detroit that say they do not feel safe and they are leaving their home to the bank. So it's not always the bank kicking the people out it is the people leaving their problem to the bank. Just a few minutes ago I received a call on a $900 3 bedroom brick ranch with a basement. Yes, that is the Sales Price, the commission is $1250 and the taxes $3300.

So lets see the bank takes a huge hit on the mortgage ($70,000) pays the taxes, cost to sell and then pays a commission. Oh yea not to mention that the homes are stripped and not by the home owner. There is something going on alright that is not right and it is not with the banks and home owners. Katerina is right - this was all part of a big plan.

10:24am • #95

I agree with Laura Jefferson that if the banks have no interest in these properties, they should convey them to local non-profit agencies who can rehab the homes and return them to the tax rolls eventually.

10:26am • #97

The $9.00/hour person answering the phone is not trained to do anything other than to receive information, put it in the cue to await a decision by someone higher in the chain and move on to the next call. It has nothing to do with whether they care or not or where they are located.

I negotiated the short sale on my own home. Even though there was a solid offer on the table and the lender had accepted it, they plowed onward and began foreclosure proceedings. I have the documentation of a successful short sale, but the foreclosure is reflected on my credit report.

The last thing I wanted to do was to injure any of my neighbor' property values. I did the most responsible and resourceful thing I could do. I did not walk away, abandon my home and not care about the aftermath, but I learned friends became enemies in the bat of an eye. It depends on the side of the fence you are on and whether people look at life compassinately or selfishly.

Linda
10:27am • #98
174,508 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Perhaps if the banks refuse to take title the City or County should take title and sell it.  Or perhaps some of the old homestead laws might be workable or a model for getting families back in homes. 

10:31am • #99
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Not sure I fully understand this, but it would appear that once a property if foreclosed upon the bank would own it. Isn't Title to the property trnasfered to the bank? If so, why are they not responsible for any future claim against the property?

If not, why doesn't the homeowner who was foreclosed upon gift the property to a non-profit?

10:32am • #100

And here I sit trying to BUY some of these properties and can't get a response for weeks for a CASH deal.  The bank just shuffles you from one place to another.  They act like they could care less if they hold it for a year rather than selling it now.   I don't mean offering them less than what they were owed.  I am offering what they bought it back for PLUS costs - (only on properties with a reasonable amount of equity above that price).  It's like they would prefer to not get paid back on these.  When the government did the bailout for the banks, they should have fired everyone in the financial system who dealt with mortgages - blacklisted them from EVER working in the financial world again - and replaced them with intelligent life.  The imates are still running the asylumn.

Jason Messer
10:34am • #101
5 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

In response to Rhode Island RE Pro, this could just be another case of shoddy journalism. A little more research by the reporter would probably have shown the same conclusions that you suggest.

10:37am • #102
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Richard - Of course the banks aren't acting out of malice, but in some cases, it is ignorance. And, as I pointed out in the post, "it’s a crime against neighborhoods trying to recover from issues of high crime and drug dealing."  Many share in the blame, but no one seems to be trying to find a solution, lenders included.

Robert - It's certainly a complex situation, but that doesn't negate the fact that poor decisions are being made. Sometimes it begins with the homeowner. The municipalities should assume the responsibility of solving this problem, for they and the neighborhood suffer the most.

Paul - There's lots of blame, but not many takers on finding solutions.

Russell - We've created so much "red tape" to dealing with these homes that it's next to impossible to transfer title. What's needed is a streamlined process.

Petra - Nice comment and challenge.

Paul - The article was from Milwaukee, but it is happening in other locations. And yes, the cases described are when banks fail to complete the foreclosure; and the owner is unaware. 

Felix - Yes, politicians will always respond if they think it's in their best interest.

 

10:37am • #103

Hi John,

I think the local governor should step in and stop this, it will heart the all community. And BANKS don't have any HEART. As mentioned before they hire people that making $9/Hour that don't have any clue.

Josh Goldstein
10:41am • #104
411,283 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I might have expected this in other cities, but Miwaukee?  This forced me to think. Crime, drugs and violence affect an area's desirability. I guess there is a limit to value when there are so many adverse conditions. I don't know who's guiltiest, the banks for walking away or the city & police for allowing it to become so undesirable.

10:41am • #105

Commenting on Tom Thomason, you are exactly correct.... they should help modify the loan, take half the payment (totaly better than nothing and leaving an empty home) and let it be for 5 years till they get on their feet or the market climbs up and they can sell it. 

The majority of us who purchased homes were able to pay for them and fully intended to keep our obligations, and when you have money coming in, that is no problem......but when the market fails and you haven't made a sale in 9 months and have no income coming in from any other source, you can not pay the note!..... but if it was half the amount, perhaps you could rent it if it was an investment property, or get a 2nd job that might help cover it...

Obama's plan for modification is that you can do this, but you have to have W-2's or pay stubs... well, dudh... if you are in real estate, appraiser, hairdresser, food and beverage or any other self employed person, you can NOT QUALIFY BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A PAY STUB...  I know this to be a fact as we have been in our home for 20 years, and I have been begging Citi mortgage to work with us since Jan. 09 on a new Obama HAM PROGRAM, and they kept dragging their feet...  we were almost there by the end of June, waiting for an answer, and then on the 30th of June, they sold my home loan to another mortgage company I never heard of.... meaning that we have to start all over with the begging and sending in all kinds of stuff....  of course, they didn't tell the new company that we were in trouble.... probably packaged it in with some other loans and sold the whole thing.....   ISN'T THAT WHAT GOT US INTO THIS SITUATION TO BEGIN WITH?.... bundling subprime with the good stuff....

If they do not help us, like many people, they will have no choice except to walk away and give it back to the banks (that got all the big money from the gov't and did not pass it on to the consumer) and ruin their credit that has been excellent up to this point.  Then they are hounded by the judgements placed on them, or they are forced into bankruptcy...  We have been in our home for 20 years, and are now faced with being kicked out on the street because we can't get it modified....... thanks Obama for forgetting about the self-employeed person.... Pres. Clinton told us years ago to go out and open small businesses and help the economy.... well, we did and look at us now...NO PAYSTUB - NO MODIFICATION - NO HELP...  it is beyond really sickening.... 

It is really a shame to know that we live in one of the best countries in the entire world that has freedom and so much to be proud of, but with all this mess of taking our homes, higher taxes (which are not coming down even though the value of the properties are going down), Trillions of $ in debt now, and not being able to get health insurance, then it could defnitely be time to "leave the country" and Costa Rica is looking better and better....and to the couple Thom and Ray, I firmly agree with you about going away...  this is the worst mess I have ever lived thru and even when interest rates in the 80's were 18-20%, we were selling homes.....  I am a hard worker and love our country and real estate and do everything I can to make a living, but it has almost become impossible in our fields....

I wish we could get the message of all this to Washington.... in this real estate industry we are all SELF-EMPLOYED, and we need a way to survive... we have no paid holidays, salary, time off, vacation pay, health insurance, or unemployment to draw from (but we still have to pay it to the Gov't)..... like the big companies.... and we work for free, until we sell something and pray that it closes....  we need some help like the other people in the US that gets a pay check..... the banks have to wake up and start trying to help us keep our homes and get this economy back where it belongs....     QUICKLY...

Jennie Moore
10:42am • #106

In Nevada, the state legislature has addressed this very problem.  They now require the "new owner" of a property acquired thru a "trustee sale" record their trustee deed within 30 days of the sale / auction.  Whether this new owner is the forclosing lender or an investor purchaser at the sale. 

If they don't they can be liable for a civil action up to $500 + attorney's fees and fees to bring the civil action.

Who would file a civil action?  Probably the previous owner who is damaged by the deed not being recorded - you know the one who couldn't pay the mortgage....

Nice thought, but no teeth to it.

 

Janine Ayres
10:45am • #107
106,533 Points 3 Featured Posts

John, I don't think banks care these days.  I actually haven't heard of banks letting homes foreclose and then abandoning them in our city yet and I hope that doesn't happen!  I didn't think about this whole situation from the city's perspective...the county loses money and then everyone pays the price when they decide to raise the cost of something else to compensate for the loss.

10:46am • #108
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Pat - Yes, a true modification could work in many cases. Let's home some lenders get the message.

Jay - There are certainly better solutions for many of the homes other than destruction.

Ray - I agree.

Mark - I'm certainly not in the "too big to fail camp."

Sandy - In this case it did. We'll see if the government is prodded to action.

Gail - Most of the homes described have been vandalized severely by the time the owner discovers he still owns the property.

Demetri - Yes, there are many great community banks.

Kathy - As I've mentioned in other comments, most of the homes are in terrible shape once the owner learns he still holds title.

Donna - It would take quick action from the local governments to speed the transfer, and therein lies the biggest problem.

 

 

10:48am • #109
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Kim - No disagreement from me.

Chad - Talk to the people who have called their lender for months trying to work out an agreement. I have a friend who has been calling his lender since he first fell behind 5 months ago. They have promised to work with him (he's dramatically underemployed now) but refuse to come back with a solution.  Just today, in response to my post, I've received 3 phone calls from homeowners who are in the same situation and their lender is refusing to work out a solution.

Sure the homeowners that just get tired of making payments on a home they no longer want or feel is worth what they paid have an obligation to try to work out an arrangement with their lender.  But to assume the banks have no responsibility is ignoring the facts. And the fact is: Many lenders are making no effort to cooperate with borrowers in default.

10:57am • #110

Chad - Well put. I am disappointed in the number of "professionals" that take this blog for its word.

John - You started on this blog misleading everyone (not necessarily intentional) - the original article does not describe what is happening the way you describe it.

"it was reported that it's becoming commonplace for lenders to refuse to take title to some properties following foreclosure. Why would a bank bother to foreclose and then abandon the property?"

They are not refusing to take title following foreclosure - they are refusing to foreclose! This is their option and it's the homeowners responsibilty.

So what's the solution? We are! As Realtors we need to be educating people about their options. They need to know that walking away is not a solution. They can seek a loan modification or they can seek a short sale. These options are available - the banks are getting better every day about working something out. These two options are available before the home is vacant and subject to vandalism.

The problem is that there is so much information out there that homeowners are overwhelmed and just don't know where to turn. They walk away because they do not understand their options.

As Realtors, we need to be reaching out to our community and educating people about their options.

Here is my best advice:

1. Find someone you trust to do loan modifications so you can refer people to them. Give them more than one option and help them avoid scammers.

2. Learn how loan modifications work so you can educate your clients to try to do it themselves. Learn the Home Affordable Modification Program - http://www.makinghomeaffordable.gov/

3. Learn how to do Short Sales and use a professional negotiating company (you will be money ahead if you focus on your unique ability - selling homes!)

4. Advertise for free foreclosure prevention consultations. Ask for referrals! There are hundreds of people in your neighborhood seeking help right now and they don't know where to turn.

5. Help your clients understand all of their options - be there if their best option is a short sale but let it be their decision. Let them try a loan modification first, many will come back to you for a short sale because you listened and gained their trust.

6. You could easily close 2 short sales a week and help hundreds of homeowners stay in their homes in the coming years.

10:58am • #111

Loan modifications - I have been working on a loan modification for a family in my area for more than a year! They were just granted a three month temporay to permanent agreement lowering their payments by $900/month. Tell your clients to be patient - the banks do not want their home.

Why does everyone assume the banks are supposed to care? This is business. Do we expect the banks to just take a loss and give the homes away to people that lost their jobs. I understand it is a sad situation but it's not the banks fault.

If you need to blame someone go back to the people that created this mess. Our government thought they were doing a good thing by loosening standards through Fannie and Freddie. They were warned about this fallout 8 years ago and denied the problem existed. They provided a mechanism for banks to make bad loans and sell the risks through securitization. Our own government created a demand for housing that drove prices up beyond a stable market.

 

11:12am • #112
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ben - While I agree in part, I'm not ready to give up.  We do have an uphill battle to get the people interested in what politicians are doing and in demanding accountability, but I'm willing to climb that hill.

Ed & Cindy - Sure, in some cases the owners just walk away, and Detroit is a great example of a collapsing city, but that doesn't explain cases in other parts of the country where conditions are dramatically different.

Tom - That should be one solution, but the municipality will have to move faster than they currently are.

Linda - Your situation is a perfect example of why the current system isn't working.

Gene - As I've mentioned in other comments, the cities need to take action sooner, to avoid the destruction that happens in vacant homes.

Larry - In the cases described, the banks are not consummating the foreclosure.

 

11:12am • #113
5 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

So, what I discover is simply that the lenders, or really investors in these cases, realize that the homeowners have walked away from the property, and rarely if ever protest the false transfer of title... in fact, most of these have title issues that would, if pursued, allow the homeowner to remain in the house... educating the homeowners is the best thing to do in these cases... seek legal advice from a foreclosure expert... Glenn Russell is a good example, working in Fall River MA...

11:16am • #114
2 Featured Posts

I appreciate the comments from "US Capital Realty".

I think our earlier master of cliches should appreciate the following two...

When you point your finger to blame someone, there are three pointing back at you.

"Well, that's another fine mess you've gotten us into."

11:24am • #115

I almost spit my coffee out when I read the line "Have banks lost their hearts?" haha

As if the banking system has ever been operating in a manner that was not intended to rape and pillage the wealth of the middle class. The Foreclosure Crisis is not so much a crisis as the Main Stream Media will tell you, its a Ponzi Scheme.

....and a very profitable racket for these "banks". I use quotes because they are not banks who are doing the dirty work of foreclosing en masse, its actually a Servicer, or an entity that is contracted to collect payment and initiate the foreclosure process. The Servicer (i.s Countrywide, Wells Fargo, Indymac...etc.) has not lent a single dime and has never been at risk in the process, however, they lie, steal and cheat their way to the Court room and use tricky legalese to disguise themselves as having Constitutional Jurisdiction allowing them to foreclose.

However, if a foreclosed Mortgagor (borrower) stands up and demands Due Process and actually requests the actual PROOF OF DEBT using a RESPA form called a Qualified Written Request or using their State's Civil Procedural Rules filing a Reqest for Discovery Documents then something very intersting happens: the Lender is called on their bluff. The Honorable Courts, when presented the argument are consistantly throwing out cases where the Servicer or new "Lender" through assignment cannot adequately proove they are the Holder in Due Course.

The Servicing company is not the true owner of the Note and they have no Constitutional Standing as an injured party to bring forth a lawsuit. A Servicer is just a front man hired to do the illegal and fraudulent work for the real investors and owners and holders of the Promissory Note, these are Hedge Funds and Pensions Funds who are stock holders in Mortgage Bank Securities and CDO Bonds.

So why would a Pretender Lender like Countrywide want to foreclosue for no reason? Because its big business, and they have systemized protocals and electronic programs rolled out by big legal firms to maximize the number of foreclosures. You have to understand that the NEW investors of the mortgage bonds have bought most of these portfolios for 10-20 cents on the dollar and they know they can sell a foreclosed property for 80-90 cents on the dollar. Just ask any Asset Manager or a broker who sells REOs....they won't even tender low ball offers.

These "Banks" are ruthless and the investors behind them are just that "investors" who care not about the people who are at the other end....they just want their money.

Foreclosure Warrior (the Ghost of Tom Jefferson)
11:24am • #116
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jason - Your comments perfectly describes what's going on at many banks. They seem to be indifferent to the problem.

Larry - If this were an isolated case, shoddy journalism might explain it, but it's not isolated at all. I've already received calls from other parts of the country confirming that they had seen the same thing.

Josh - The local government should be the one to force a solution.

Vickie - I'd like to see the municipalities pass ordinances that will speed up the process and allow them to step in before the homes and neighborhoods are destroyed.

Jennie - I had another call this morning from an agent in FL who is facing foreclosure and unable to get their bank to work with them. Good luck with yours.

Janine - I guess it's a step in the right direction.

Patricia - It's a lose/lose situation.

US Capital - If you read the entire article, you would see that it reports a case of the bank doing what I described--foreclosing and not taking title. And Milwaukee isn't the only place that it's happened.

 

11:28am • #117

Wow! What a question.  This is something most of us would not have thought about and as most of you have said there is no cut and dried answer that will fit all situations.  Banks are looking out for the bottom line and that bottom line is all that matters.  I agree that banks that have taken bail out money should be held to a set of guidelines, but who is going to come up with that guideline and will the parameters of it benefit the people that need it most.  How long will it take to get something in place.  Not all banks have taken bail out money, will they be held to the same guideline if one is created?  Who is going to monitor it?  I do not like the idea of the government taking over ever faciet of our lives, but what are our alternatives?  One of the most important things we can do is to get the facts stright, then to start educating our fellow relators through such media as this, REPAC. Talk to our Senators and Congressmen and the general public at large.  Untill we start standing up for ourselves and being informed, things like this will continue to happen.  One thing that could be considered is that once the homeowner is foreclosed on a timeline could be given to the bank that if the property has not been taken out of the homeowners name within that timeframe, the homeowner has the right to move back in if the title is in their name.  Would this not be an incentive for the homeowner to take out title insurance when at the closing table.  Most don't and don't know the importance of doing so.  Great post.

Denise Bivens
11:34am • #118

Some great thoughts on this John, as always, from the Guru. Part of this problem is in reaction to an increasing trend by cities and towns across the US to pass laws imposing an "extra burden" of maintenance on the lender who gains title to properties through the foreclosure process. This extra burden requires the lender to maintain the home in a condition often far greater than what was required of the original homeowner and, if they don't, hefty fines can be imposed as well as possible civil and even criminal sanctions, if compliance is not obtained. There is a prevailing mentality that as long as someone else has to pay for it, then I'm all for it. Although this is understandable, ultimately everyone of us pays the price for this. At a time when many of us are experiencing the Greatest Depression of this generation, I think we need to focus less about the bad banks and more about how we, as a population, can take care of our own and get the employment numbers back where they should be. This will go a long way in preventing future defaults for many. I also think this backdrop provides a great opportunity for non-profit local and state housing authorities and other non=profits such as Habitat for Humanity to obtain housing on prices and on terms they never could have previously. This could go along way towards removing the foreclosure blight and in providing needed housing for our low income, homeless and senior populations.

Jim Selden
11:37am • #119

With many of our cities and counties searching and even desperate for money, maybe it would be a great thing to get them to buy or takeover the properties after they are abandoned by the banks, rehab and resell them, collect back due taxes, putting people back to work and also bringing back a new tax base only at a lower more affortable level for the new homeowners.  Much needed revenue for our communities. 

I think many of us agree that the government is not going to be able to do it, so instead of creating anxiety and hopelessness we should become activists in our communities and find solutions on a grass roots level to make a difference.  After all, are we not probelm solvers, negotiators, the people who care?

Let's get some of that stimulus money and really put it to work!  Let's be activists for our own communities, rally our leaders to do what is best for all of us, the trickle up effect! 

Maybe I am thinking to simplistic. to idealistic?  Creating something from nothing?

John and Carla, you just got me all worked up about this!!

Esther
11:45am • #120

John,

Most interesting article I've read in a long time.  SO many issues involved in this foreclosure climate. 

Onee thing people in trouble should know - the big banks have no heart.  They should look at their loan/house decisions as strickly business decisions and save themselves the emotional pain.

I was the assset manager for a small "Its A Wonderful Life"  savings & loan in the 80's.  I sold our REO.   We sold to one of the big banks and got all new senior management.  A brief interaction with the new VP of Lending tells the no heart story.

We had had a record month for new loan originations and I  complimented him on the production.  His reply was chilling.  "Yeah Burns, you want to see me  make some real  money, give mee $20M to lend on credit cards."

Who knows what condition title is in after a lender does not perfect their foreclosure but what if the borrower maintained the property to the end maybe giving free rent to someone trustworthy or staying in the home?  If lender walks away after foreclosure, they are still on title, they probably stay there for free???   Title would have a huge cloud but it certainly would be better for the livability of the community and property values to have people maintaing and living in these homes.  Legal opinions might eventually clear title.

Many of these big corporate entities have no heart and no morals.  People should remember that when working in a foreclosure situation.

Thanks again for the post.

Bill

Bill Burns
11:48am • #121

It is a process with no concern for people's lives.  I am involved in a nightmare where Wells Fargo told my seller, after 12 month's of trying to sell her house priced at what she owed on it, that they could not talk to her about a short sale as long as she was current with her paymerts. Told her to stop making payments. She did. We got a Short Sale offer and spent from May 12 to July 7 trying to get a "negotiator" from Wells Fargo to look at our offer. We had all the paper work in May 12. We escalalted everyday with the $9.00 an hour phone reps, only to be told someone will be back in touch in 48 - 72 hours. No one ever called. Wells Fargo then began the foreclosure process. We asked if there was a risk of the home being foreclosed. They said NO as long as it was in the Short Sale process. Then on July 7th the house was sold back to Freddie Mac on the courthouse steps and the Short Sale reps did not even know. My seller had offered the week before to borrow money to pay up the back payments and was again told by Wells Fargo, "NO, don't do that, you will mess up the shiort sale." Wells Fargo led my seller down this road and right to foreclsure. Now the Seller and her child have lost their home and NO ONE will talk to us. Talk about criminal. Even our Senator, Johnny Isakson's office, who is invoved now cannot get an explanation. BEWARE the SHORT SALE and Wells Fargo.

 

Michael Lacy, Blue Ridge Georgia
11:48am • #122
Hit Router

Wow. Talk about driving the very neighborhoods that they "have stock" in down. The houses next to a walkaway lose value- the very houses future buyers (borrowers) will be mortgaging. And does anyone else see an opportunity for the banks to conduct a public perception campaign? If they instead gifted the properties to their less fortunate borrowers, and make sure they get some media coverage for it; they could market themselves as one of the good guys.

11:51am • #124

Has ANYONE here considered this: The "Big Bad Heartless Banks" don't actually hold the paper (mortgage).  In most cases it is an investor, i.e. Fannie Mae (FNMA), Freddie Mac (FHLMC), or any number of private investors/REITs who purchased the paper from the lenders (generally bundled as securities).  The lenders do act as servicing agents for the investors, and therefore can take action in a foreclosure case, but they are acting on behalf of the investor.  I am not suggesting I have a solution to the "problem" presented in this post, but I would ask that before we all pile-on and excoriate "the banks" for being heartless, let's consider that real estate is a complex machine involving many players.  Also please consider that banking is a for-profit venture, as is Realty.

 I personally would like to see more standardization in dealing with these problems, but no one group (investors, lenders, Realtors, government) can do it alone.  The problem is that it is happening so fast that in most cases we (all of the aforementioned) cannot react quickly enough to prevent the damage that is occurring.  Hopefully we can all learn from this situation and take steps to lessen the likelihood of it happening again!

I like to believe that all of us in this industry want to do the right thing for our customers and the market in general....I sure do hope so, at least!

 

11:55am • #125

I've wondered what the deal was on a number of properties in my town...now I know. I tried to buy a foreclosed property that's been sitting for over a year now, and the bank just refers me to their regional arm, who tells me they know nothing. They have a potential, even probable, buyer, and they choose to do nothing. It's maddening.

In another very nice neighborhood of very new homes, there are now several that are empty after foreclosure. These homes are now being vandalized, and the current home owners are now at risk after purchasing in what they believed to be a safe neighborhood. This is beyond maddening to me - I think it borders on negligence.

My company works with auctioneers to auction real estate. I would give my left arm to find the person to talk to in these banks - of course, it would be good for me, but it would also provide closure for those who foreclosed and help keep property values up for those in neighborhoods with these homes.

11:59am • #126
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Denise - It is not a simple issue, but their seem to be better solutions than those currently taken.

Jim - Good comments.

Ester - Yes, we all have a responsibility to help solve the difficult problems we face. It's sometimes too easy to assume others will take on the tasks.

Bill - Yes, lots of issues involved, but intelligent people--and we still have a few of these--should be able to find solutions.

Michael - Your comments should be read by those who have suggested that the banks "want to work out loan modifications." That rarely happens. Of the 9 million the administration promised to save, fewer than 200,000 have actually received a modification, and many of those will fail, because the terms are unrealistic for the buyer.

12:01pm • #127

County commisioner should form a free panel of experts; legal, Realtor, lender, appraiser to give best unbiased advice to citizens.    This would protect their tax base and property values and the livability of their communities.

Good idea for anyone in Real Estate in these hard hit communities.

Communities are people.  People comiing together for the common good is always a smart idea especilly in these challenging times.

Bill

12:01pm • #128
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Todd & Devona - I'm afraid the banks are concerned about setting a precedent for being "good guys," and quite honestly I would understand.  But I do think they could carefully manage the process to their advantage without creating too much exposure.

Brian - I like to believe that all of us in this industry want to do the right thing for our customers and the market in general....I sure do hope so, at least!  I would hope so too!

Doug - Yes, all facets of the process need to move faster, beginning with loan modifications and short sales.

Bill - I agree that the solutions begin on the local level.

12:08pm • #129

Are any of you noticing the cities, counties and states can no longer pay teachers for schools, police and fire departments and government employees?  As the number of forecloused properties rise, there are no property taxes being paid.  Are property taxes a large portion of how our cities, counties and state organizations are funded?  Has anyone noticed what has happened in Los Angeles, CA? I think it was said that they are almost a billion dollars in the red?  Isn't this the direct or indirect result of the massive property foreclosures in not only Los Angeles but the state of California?

I could be incorrect... But, while banks are holding onto foreclosed properties over months and years there are zero property taxes being paid.  Also, who pays the outstanding past property taxes when a foreclosed property is purchased (not the buyer).

It's almost as if the banks/investors are holding local governments hostage by breaking down the neighborhoods while reducing property values and eliminating quality public education for families that cannot afford quality private school education for their children.

What can we do as Realtors to help resolve this?  Are we able to provide answers in this forum?

Petra
12:21pm • #130
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Petra - I would think that local leaders, already strapped for cash, would be jumping on this problem.  They can require lenders to take title to properties and to either maintain or dispose of them.  Working with community leaders would be a good first step. You're right, the loss in taxes, while remaining a drain on services is very costly; not to mention the costs to the neighborhood. 

12:38pm • #131
172,051 Points 1 Featured Post

We should not confuse a bank with a charity.  For a business to thrive and avoid bankruptcy, it must make sound business decisions that protect "Harry & Mabel" stockholders and depositors.  A charity is the right place for assistance of people in need.  Perhaps those of us who are fortunate not to be embroiled in this mess need to contribute more (myself included).

12:39pm • #132

The real crux of the issue in the article is never addressed. The hands of the banker were forced into making these loans in the first place by the FEDS and their moronic affordable home programs, CRA, etc. My own backyard as an example, there is no way inner city homes ever should have been selling for the insane prices they were getting on them and yet it happened with non-profit community groups as a go between to shuffle money from government to government contractor friend with a little cut on the side.

The banks are not the problem and demanding government legislate to fix the problem they caused in the first place? That is like going in for an appendix removal, finding out your arm is gone when you wake up and then asking the same doctor to get it right the next time. Government legislation is not the answer you want, it'll create more problems. The more impositions you put on the banks, the more expensive it is going to be for your buyers and sellers, alike. Get off their backs and start riding the backs of your local, state, and federal level politicians.

It isn't the banks holding government hostage, it is the bankers who have been held hostage by the government and while we are at, those same government officials are holding their people hostage as well.  How many times have you heard that a local government will cut police and fire if they don't get a levy passed? Happens here all the time and the people are dumb enough to keep electing the same fools.

12:44pm • #133

Alot of this started to tumble when values of homes dropped. And when mortgage ARM loans were maturing and interest rates up... With values down who could refinance? Plus subprime loans, stated income and Negative Am. products being pushed in the market place while lenders made it attractive and possible for loan officers to make thousands of dollars on these Neg Am loans, and everyone in the neigborhoods wanted that 1% start rate.. to qualify for a mortgage.

For me these negative amortization loans has ALWAYS hurt the homeowner. I made a commitment to never sell it, I saw what happened in the early 90s what this product did then.. So quite frankly, both lender and loan officers that were selling this particular product should be ashame... and Realtors who knew and did not advise their client to stay clear from this type of product.

I believe this maket will get even worse since there is still more foreclosures to come and no one is paying the property taxes and therefore our communites are being destroyed.. The entire Real Estate is in turmoil. So we as professional need to pull together and draw up some solutions and present it to the parties at hand that have authority...so what can we do to help our communites and stop pointing fingers and just get the job done!

12:57pm • #134

I have a proposal that I think would help this scenario.

 

Banks, after taking the title in foreclosure should be required to re-list the property at current market price within a certain amount of time, say 90 days. This would force the banks to get these properties back on the market and would force the market to act efficently. Prices would be driven down tremendously but that's the direction that we are headed in anyway. Opportunities to buy cheap properties abound, and the buying public would be the winner in the end.

 

And that image of your friendly neighborhood banker? "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!"

 

-Sky Minor

www.preferredrealtyandloan.com

12:59pm • #135

I would have to say that if the bank forcloses and then abandons the property then the homeowner should be off the hook monetarily as the bank did not substatially try to recuperate any loss on the mortgage.

John Harrison
1:06pm • #136
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Richard - I'm certainly not suggesting that business become charities; however, it seems that common sense has been left out of the equation.  If the banks would take a more aggressive stance initially, they might preserve more of their stockholders money.

Matthew - The problem could certainly benefit from more intelligence and common sense on all sides.

Maryann - Individual participation is key. We can all help develop solutions.

Sky - Regardless of how you approach the problem, speed is the key to a solution.

1:06pm • #137
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John - The problem with the loans described is that the banks never took possession and the homeowner never knew.

1:07pm • #138

Why can't the mortgagor/owner simply quit-claim the property back to the lender at some point? Seems like that may help close the loophole.

1:15pm • #139
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ed & Terri - It's not so much about closing the loophole. The banks don't want the properties, and if they quit claim them, the original owner isn't able to make repairs, pay delinquent taxes, etc.

1:18pm • #140

Here's a question....if it were really that simple, don't you think lenders would be doing it (reducing their own losses, stabilizing markets, etc.)??  Matthew hit it on the head...the increasing legislation is crippling the banking industry.  It won't get better until the feds get their hands off the problem.

1:22pm • #141
1 Featured Post

This is a pretty scary scenario as it isn't clear who's going to pick up th epieces & start putting these communities back together if ownership is in limbo.

1:40pm • #142

@Matthew P. Klien:  You hit the nail on the head.  Great comment.

@US Capitol Realty: You should write a post up about that to counter this post.  Great stuff.

1:44pm • #143

Where is NAR on this issue?

john macleod
1:47pm • #144
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Brian - Yes, the government is far too deep into many issues, but what's to keep a lender from negotiating a lower principal with the borrower. Isn't that what Making Home Affordable was supposed to encourage?

To All Lenders - I'd love to see a post from a lender and hear the other side. Perhaps we'd all be enlightened.

1:52pm • #145
209,826 Points

Wonder why they can't work with the homeowner to come up with some kind of payment instead of this.  Anything is better than nothing.

1:56pm • #146

Wow, I haven't heard of this one...foreclosing & then not taking title to the property?!?! That makes no sense!!

 

1:58pm • #147

Unfortunatly, lenders are rairly accepting a deed in lieu of foreclosure.

There is an affordable option for homeowners facing foreclosure through our 501c3, we offer a free stop foreclosure service and will also assist the homeowner obtain a loan modification.

The halt foreclosure service is free to homeowners on their primary residence. After the foreclosure has been stopped the homeowner need to take action to obtain a loan modification, short slae, deed in lieu etc.

We offer a free downloadable instructional eBook to assist the homeowner obtain a successful loan modification.

If the homeowner would prefer to have a professional handle their loan modification negotiation, they have the option to become a member of our non-profit for $495.00. (contact us for details)

Remember that the Halt Foreclosure Sale service is free and so is the eBook. The homeowner is not obligated to become a member of our non-profit and can utilize the services of any loan modification professional or low firm they choose or utilize the free instructional eBook and negotiate their own modification direct with their lender.

If you are intrested in being an affiliated chapter of the non-profit, please contact us for additional information. Together we can make a difference and take an active role in our economic recovery.

fh4a@statefinancialservices.org

2:03pm • #148
3 Featured Posts

Aloha John,

The Frank Capra Film It's a Beautiful Life; where the indomitable Banker played by Jimmy Stewart manages to over come the trails of the Great Depression, save his bank and the surrounding community from ruin, is unfortunately a not so beautiful LIE. Small time bankers don't exist anymore, because they are continually gobbled up by the Big Banks; who create the financial peaks and troughs (recessions, depressions) through the manipulation of currency, supply and inflation. All done through the European Central Bank and it's branches around the world. The Federal Bank here in the US is a privately owned subsidiary of the European Central Bank (it is NOT a part of our government and NEVER has been since it's inception in the early part of the 20th century).

Banks do have a heart of gold but it's more like the James Bond villian, GoldFinger and as Shirley Bassy sings it, his heart is cold! There is a reason why Usury, which is modern banking, was illegal and condemned for thousands of years as immoral. Here you have a perfect example of why. Follow the money trail yourself, find out who owns your bank, than find out who owns them and the trail inevitably leads to the US Federal Bank, England, Germany and France. These institutions are above the law and have been for a very long time.

Peace,

2:07pm • #149

My question: How does one know when a foreclosure has been completed or not?

Sandra Bandfield
2:10pm • #150

An absolute atrocity.  I hope these deeds are brought to light the next time the mortgage industry asks for a bailout. 

2:15pm • #151

Ah, there's plenty of blame to go around.  So to all you Pollyannas, get involved with your community on the local level and work for change.  If you are a lender, put a cork in the bottle at your level and stop the nonsense trickling down from above.  Reach out to your management and keep going higher and higher until you get real answers and help stop these foreclosures instead of putting off the people (owners/sellers/buyers) who make your paycheck possible.  If you are a Realtor, educate your sellers about short sales, foreclosures and available resources, and then, make sure these people actually get the information.  Get them attorneys, counselors, work-out specialists, lenders who will re-fi.  Seek out alternative sources and keep the owners/sellers from being paralyzed.  Yes, you'll do it for free, but you can never give anything away.  If you are an attorney, do some pro bono work with your Bar Association and start to help find a solution to these "limbo" situations at the community/county/state level.  Enough is enough.

Are you a legislator simply monitoring this site?  Now you know what the problem is.  Are you willing to make a difference?  Because if you don't, there won't be anyone left to vote you either into or out of office.  We'll all be on the streets.

If you are already working on a short sale, heed Michael Lacey's message (#122).  Don't just work with the short sale negotiator.  It's imperative that you are talking with the foreclosure department simultaneously and keeping them in the loop on your short sale file or they WILL FORECLOSE.

Need to find someone to talk to?  Doug Bittner (#126) is looking for help.  There are contact lists of short sale departments, foreclosure departments and investors right here on Active Rain.  Search the REO blogs.  Local associations also have lists.  Ask an attorney/title company specializing in short sales.  Otherwise, search the web for the name of the lender shown on the lis pendens.  This takes more work but usually gets me a name and an email address of someone right at the top from which I can then work my way down to where I need to be.

Don't be stingy with your information.  Help me help you help each other, or we may all go down together. 

Sally Rackey
2:16pm • #152

There is an answer to this problem!  I am an officer with Good Grievance Corp.  The Company is a National Provider of Homeowner Solutions.  We have unique memberships that provide homeowners with the tools required to modify their loans, lower their property taxes and insurance premiums.  The Company also assists the homeowner to obtain free energy audits and is forming energy purchasing cooperatives to achieve optimum pricing through consolidated purchasing.

We recently started using software built by a Company named ADAPT Enterprises.  This software is allows us to submit loan information into the system and it runs an eligibility for MHA.  This software is based off treasury guidelines and it is the ultimate solution.  It basically determines if it is more beneficial to foreclose or to modify based off of the Net Present Value findings.  If the software determines it is more beneficial to modify, participating servicers and lenders must modify the loan.

This software and this program allows homeowners to restructure, juts like the lenders.  It qualifies and focuses on a five year period with rates as low as 2% and will raise the payment by 1% annually starting in year six until it reaches the current Freddie Index, which today is 5.2%.

Brighter days are ahead for homeowners and municiplaities that depend on property tax receipts to cover budgets for localities.  Lok for the name ADAPT Enterprises if you want to help people.

It surely helps us on a professional level.

 

J. Donovan
2:26pm • #153
242,477 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John,

That is a big shame. Looks like local governments need to get involved to protect their interests by enacting legislation to that effect. Hopefully they'll do it before it is too late.

2:28pm • #154

Saying the Fed isn't a part of the government is like saying Freddie and Fannie were not and yet who was pulling those purse strings? Members of the Board of Governors are appointed by who? The President. That appointee is then confirmed by which other branch of government? Congress. It has a charter and laws set by Congress and is subject to Congressional Oversight. They were created by a piece of legilsation called the Federal Reserve Act in 1913 no thanks to Woodrow Wilson. Without the government, the Federal Reserve doesn't exist.

A truly free market would have ups and down but not nearly on the scale that we see due to legilsation. Business plans can take into account some ups and downs but how can you predict a beauracrat's whim? A poll number changer is the politician who suddenly feels the need to boost his  numbers and goes after some business or crucify some individual who has not the capital to defend himself adequately while the beauracrat has the tax dollars to play with.

Get the government out of the people's way and the people will clean up the mess and profit from it. Keep the government involved, you get what you got and the legal mess as described in this article will only get worse.

 

2:29pm • #155

WHERE DID YOU EVER GET THE IDEA THAT BANKS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE "HEART" IN DOING BUISNESS? HOW MANY REALTORS WOULD GIVE BACK THERE COMMISSION TO HELP A HOME OWNER? HOW ABOUT A RESTAURANT JUST LETTING PEOPLE WALK OUT WITHOUT PAYING? CAN YOU WALK IN TO SEARS AND WALK OUT. NO BUT SOMEHOW THE BANKS ARE EVIL BECAUSE THEY LENT PEOPLE MONEY AND EXPECT TO GET IT BACK. ONLY AN OPRAHFIED CHEESEBALL WOULD THINK THAT THE BANKS SHOULD EXIST TO BE CHARITABLE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE STOLEN FROM THEM.

JOSEPH
2:31pm • #156

The solution that has been working for some of my clients here in Nevada is the Short Refi.  Our catastrophic plunge in values has put 67% of homeowners here upside down--even those who put down 20% on their homes!  Just like a short sale in that the bank takes less than the NOTE amount(borrower must qualify for a new 30 year fixed loan with a new lender at 90% or so of the CURRENT value) only the borrower remains the occupant.  It's essentially a principal reduction for the home owner, but the lender changes.  Select Portfolio did a number of these for me in conjunction with Taylor Bean.  Turns out it was substantially less expensive and time consuming for them than a short sale and much less expensive than a foreclosure.  The Operations Manager there told me they were thinking of it as "preventative medicine."  They said they would rather lose a portion of the principal now, get the loan off their books, and get an infusion of capitol than potentially lose even more down the road.  Great part is (other than keeping the borrower in the home) it stabilizes neighborhood values--my appraisers love this solution.  Chase just accepted a $3,000 payoff on a $62,000 2nd and a $165,000 payoff on a $240,000 1st, allowing my client to stay in his home.

Unfortunately, Fannie and Freddie loans are not eligible for the Short Refi.  I spoke with Barney Frank about it at an event here in Vegas last week and he is going to have the regulation changed to allow it.  One issue investors had was they told me they can only write the principal reduction loss off over 1 year instead of 5 as in the case of foreclosure.  They asked Barney Frank to change those accouting rules, and he is planning on addressing it.

 

 

Kendall Aschoff
3:00pm • #157

How about letting the town/city give the house to folks that qualify and will promise to live in it, take care of it, and improve it and after 10 or 15 years will own it. Sort a homesteading for the 21st century.

3:23pm • #158
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Allen - That seems obvious to us, but why not them?

Dan - Didn't make sense to me either.

Kimo - It can be a dirty business. Hope deserving homeowners do find help.

Esko - Local governments should move quickly for it ultimately costs them millions.

Matthew - I agree that the problem began with government, and more government, especially on the federal level, will just add to the confusion.

Joseph - It's obvious you failed to read the post or article. I'm not suggesting that banks be charitable, just that they exercise common sense. The banks have failed their investors by not taking a more proactive approach.  For the banks to refuse to attempt to find a solution hurts both their bottom line and the municipalities where the properties are located--to say nothing of what it does for their image.

Kendall - Sounds like a win/win.

Sue - Most of the homes mentioned in the article are beyond homesteading. They've been vandalized, stripped, and neglected.

 

3:47pm • #159

Josephs point is well made, if these homeowners interest rates had suddenly dropped by two points and the equity in the homes had incresed 20 percent would the owners have been willing to help out the banks/lendors?  Of ourse not, but would we call those home owners greedy?

How about all of those real estate agent who were also acting the loan officers and made double commissions while they knew that this was a bad loan and now that their clients are in predictable troule I don't see them offering to help out their former clients.

Many buyers were told they could qualify for loans without having to put any money down and either not hearing or reading about the risks or never even being told of them.  They said they wanted that and signed without understanding or reading.  Now they say it's the banks fault that they have lost their home and it's the banks fault for looking out for their shareholders and the  bottom line.  

When a person doesn't pay the bank has the riight to forclose on a property so they can take that bad mortgage off of the books.  If the asset (house) that secures the property has insufficient or no value they then can choose not to take title to the property.  Why would you or any company take over properties which at that point become negative liabilities to your balance sheet when there is a legal way to remove them from the books?  There is a loss to the bank, but in some markets this strategy is a valis way to "cut your losses" and allow a lender to move on. 

In most states these types of abandoned properties escheat to the state or local municipality, they have the right and ability to take ownership of these properties and then either use them for the public good or sell them off at auction.  Curreently most state laws make this a long and time consuming process, but if the state were to streamline this process these abandoned properties wouldn't sit for so long or become the blight to the neighborhoods.  As Realtors, why not have our PACs lobby for those changes that address the problem of those properties thqat no one, including the original lendors want or can afford to keep on their books.  

Gary
4:07pm • #160
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Gary - The point is not that the banks took advantage of the borrower--and in some cases it was the other way around. The point is that the process makes no economic sense for anyone. Everyone loses, including the bank, when, in some cases, there are better options. Lenders with billions on their books find it difficult to deal with small time amounts, but they might benefit if they'd give a second look.

4:11pm • #161

Why can't the banks donate the properties to Habitat For Humanity or a homeless-to-homes organization. The bank would get a write off, and the charity and needy people would win.

Susan
4:28pm • #162
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Susan - Many of the properties are severely damaged and have thousands in accumulated taxes. The cities just need to take charge before conditions get that bad.

4:31pm • #163
230,131 Points 9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Don't know the laws up their, but if a owner walks here in Texas, they will get a 1099 for the difference of what the home sold in auction and what the balance of the loan was at the time of the sale. If the original owner gets another house in the state, they will get a deficiency judgment on the house.

5:01pm • #164
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Tim - I'm sure the laws vary by state, and sounds as if you folks get serious about it. That's a good thing.

6:06pm • #165

Sorry, but I don't understand the problem. If the bank refuses to take title and  title remains with the owners, the owners should be able to continue occuping the property. Their credit is probably shot, but they still have a roof over their heads with no mortage. John, it's a great post, but I wonder if you might be missing some facts.

 

6:58pm • #166

I thought the article was misleading.  Walk-away is when the owner walks away from the property, as was pointed out above.

It is likely that the bank's foreclosure process stopped because the the non-performing loan was sold to a private investor as part of a bulk package of about 100 non-performing loans.

The investor then contacts the home owners to work out a loan mod or a deed in lieu.  However, if the owners have already moved out of their home, and cannot be located, then the new investor has to re-start the foreclosure process to take title to the home.

The original owner is still the owner, and therefore responsible for the taxes, mowing, and upkeep of the property.

 

7:12pm • #167
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Larry - Yes, the part you missed is where the foreclosure notice is filed and perhaps even goes through, the owner moves out, the property is stripped and vandalized, and no longer habitable. Then it's too late even if the owner is still on the title.

 

7:24pm • #168
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Laurie - The story wasn't misleading; and the term as used in the article refers to banks walking away from properties, not owners. This was also reported in the New York Times several months ago.  Your description of a potential scenario is only speculative; however, both articles point out the facts.

7:31pm • #169

Thank you Brian Borke for pointing out that the bank has to answer to the investors who hold the paper. Banks are just one tier and they are beholden to the investor (Fannie/Freddie) as to what they can and cannot do when it comes to modification, re-financing, short sale etc.

We are on the downside of the the government's brilliant idea of the earlier part of the decade where EVERYONE was able to buy a home. Homeownership is NOT a right. It is a priviledge. Banks gave money to EVERYONE because the government forced investors such as Fannie and Freddie to allow liar loans of every stripe.

Now, Fannie and Freddie have fallen into the hands of government because of the landslide of subprime and banks still have to march to their drums.  Banks don't get to decide which loans get modified, FANNIE and FREDDIE do. Speak to your government reps, they are, unfortunately, running the show.

Wendi Muehls
8:19pm • #170

Booo Hoooo

Am I the only one who gets tired of hearing about the "poor people' who lose their homes.  I'm sorry, but I think more of my fellow Americans to believe that everyone who has lost or will lose their home is so stupid that they could not figure out that there was a downside to buying a house they could not afford.  I don't care how slick the alsoeman might have been, or how many ads they heard on the radio or how many firends and family did it - who cares.  No, the Americans I know may have made a mistake - but by golly they suck it up and move on.

I don't know anyone who want the Govenment to start spending more BILIONS OF DOLLARS -throwing good money after bad.

So, whay are the banks evil because they decide NOT to throw good money (tax payer money in many cases) after the bad loser homes that they just foreclosed on. YES - THEY FORECLOSED ON JUST LIKE IT SAID IN THE CONTRACT THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SIGNED - ONE MORTGAGE AT A TIME.

Let's just quit the whining and get down to the business of business and turn this country around with CAPITALISM - an incentive for ordinary people to pick themselves up by their boot straps, dust themselves off and make olemonadea out of their lemons.

I for one an tired of the NANNY governemnt we have trying to tell me what is best for me - wake u-p and smell the soup lines - if we as Americans can't make this happen then our nannies in Washington will make sure they do the best they can for us - one can of Cambells Soup at a time.!!!

Tires of Whining from the Peoples Republik of KALIfornia,

John

A Reader who is Tired of the Bleeding Hearts
8:55pm • #171

The only way this scenario can work out for the bank is if federal regulations don't require them to increase their margin account if they don't take title.  That seems like a simple change. In fact, instead of a non performing asset requiring 150% margin. Make a foreclosed but not yet re-titled home require 250% margin.  The banks would have everything re-titled faster than you can imagine.

 

Michael
9:16pm • #172

When I was with GE Capital Mortgage Services, we foreclosed on a home we wish we hadn't.  If I remember correctly, the home was in the Northeast.  After we foreclosed on the home, it was discovered that the home had environmental issues.  Basically, a fuel oil line leading to the home had leaked into the soil.

It cost us more than the home was worth to remediate the property.  In this instance, it would have cost us far less to just let the homeowner have the property.

9:25pm • #173
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John - What you're overlooking is the cost to the community. It's not a matter of whining. It's a matter of reaching a solution on a problem we're already paying for. I certainly don't want the federal government just throwing money at problems. I'd like to see sensible solutions developed by sensible people, rather than  complaining.

Michael - Sounds like a solution worthy of investigation. Thanks.

Jack - Or at least work out something other than foreclosure in which both parties suffer.

 

9:49pm • #174
JUL
15

This post has me confused.

If the lender has actually gone through with a foreclosure, then they are the owners. Or, the trustee is the owner. In that case, the owner-occupant has NO obligation for taxes or any other fees.

In California, the owner-occupant can be "forced out" only by a foreclosure or an eviction. (or eminent domain)

I have advised any people I've encountered that might be in a foreclosure situation to stay in the property until the last possible minute. Leave ONLY when you know without a doubt that you do not own the property anymore.

Once the owner leaves, he has almost no leverage for future loan modifications, forebearances, etc. With the mortgage market changing so quickly, it is prudent to plan for lenders becoming more lenient and willing to work with owners; the standards are becoming more relaxed even now.

I understand that laws vary from state to state. However, I have never heard of anyone being on the hook for fees after their property has transferred title from their name into a lender's or trustee's name.

Simone St Clare
1:10am • #175
486,132 Points 84 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I think some creative attorneys should put together law suits on behalf of the communities being destroyed by these practices.

1:35am • #176
1 Featured Post

Yeah ! smart move. I have heard of homes that were built close to the power plant HERE IN PHOENIX METRO; they were never completed or some were more than others, Bank took it back and bulldozed it out. NEW HOMES !!! and they got the bailout money, OUR MONEY ! THIS IS INSANITY. THEY COULD HAVE SOLD IT FOR LESS TO WORKERS THAT HAVE TO COMUTE OVER 1.5 HOURS TO GET TO WORK BECAUSE IS IN A SUCH REMOTE AREA. 

1:56am • #177

Sad but true. Most of these mortgages had some type of insurance on them, plus with the TARP money...the banks have recouped some of their money and appear to be just writing off the rest. While I'm never a proponent for big government, I think it would make much more sense to have some sort of government liquidator a'la the Savings and Loan crisis bailout that happend in the early '90's with the Resolution Trust Corporation. The banks have failed miserably in liquidating their own under performing assets.

2:19am • #178

Mention the term "heart" and "Realtor" in the same sentence and you REALLY have an oxymoron! This is yet another example of the hundreds of blogs my friends and I read on this site where Realtors accept no responsibility whatsoever for the housing crisis that's now affecting EVERYONE. It's honestly become so discouraging to think that 95% of you think the way you do. It leaves no hope whatsoever.

No one had any problems driving their clients around, making "small talk" with them, finding out they both worked at Walmart as greeters, and selling them a $549,000 house. By the way, it was only worth $450,000 but the Realtor demanded that the lender get the appraiser to bring it in at value. She even shopped it a few times til she got what she needed. Hell, even SHE knew it wasn't worth it. And then, the "real estate professional" went through 11 loan companies until she found the one crooked enough to finally make the loan. She could have stopped at the lender who explained in plain english that the borrowers, while willing to lie on their loan application, simply didn't qualify to make the necessary payments. After all....they had bad credit and worked at Walmart as greeters.

Does anyone here know whether Walmart greeters with bad credit qualify to buy a half million dollar home?

If you don't know the answer, for God's sake get out of the business. And for those who DO know full well that they could never possibly have afforded the monthly payments, but sold them one anyway, go directly to jail and don't pass go.

For the Lenn Harleys in your industry who preach that there's never any circumstance whereby a Realtor is ever accountable for ANYTHING (after all, it's Wall Street who created the instruments and the crooked lender who approved the loan), please lady, just leave the business will you? Your "We never caused anything" sermons are laughable, and it's astonishing to think there are people like you who are allowed to retain a license and still practice real estate. It borders on criminal.

Ultimately, you all now blame the "heartless lender" for walking away from the house that the Walmart greeters beat up before leaving, stole the appliances from, and ran down into a pigsty from day one? That's incredulous. You're looking for someone to clean up your own mess.

It'll be a refreshing day when the government finally wakes up and somehow discovers that there was a Realtor involved in 99.9% of the transactions that are now belly up and wreaking havoc on the entire country's finances. They'll somehow learn that the word "housing expert" simply doesn't apply if there's a commission to be had. That Madoff isn't the only crook in the world. And that $9.00/hour clerks will likely serve America's housing needs better than a group of "professionals" who simply will not, can not, or dare not acquiesce to the fact that their role played an integral part in this whole mess.

If it makes you feel sad (or mad) that the lender is requiring the Walmart greeters to still have responsibility for the property after foreclosure, then YOU house them, YOU fix the blighted property, and YOU invest some of your own money in righting the situation. After all, YOU created it.

Feel free to stop your perpetual finger pointing and whining in the meantime. It's much too revealing as to what the general IQ of your crowd is.

Karen

(aka a consumer who wishes her own Realtor would have been more educated, forthright and knowledgable in our own real estate transaction). We relied on your advice, your guidance and your purported expertise in the purchase of our home. We know you couldn't have predicted the fallout, but you did sell us a home for $600,000, even though you yourself couldn't believe how fast property values were going up. You guided us to the lender who turned out to be a crook, and when the appraisal came in low you told us it was a mistake and that they had mixed the numbers up with another property. LOL.

Meanwhile, we were too naive, too trusting and too excited to own a home. We should have somehow figured out that only 1% of your entire industry is worth talking to, and subsequently developed a plan to sift through the remaining 99% in order to find someone deserving of our business. Alas, we didn't know better. And now, fortunately, there are sites like ActiveRain where the general public can go, read the biased, uninformed, uneducated and far less than professional tidbits in determining who should be called and who shouldn't the next time around.

This site probably wasn't intended as that kind of litmus test, but I think I speak for at least 25 of my friends and I who are glad we can finally see the true value of a real estate social networking site.

Thank you ActiveRain.

Karen

Karen
3:31am • #179
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Simone - No the lenders didn't complete the foreclosure. That's the point of the article.

Randy - The cities should take charge and change their laws to create more rapid ways to deal with this problem

Elena - I did  a post a couple of months ago about the same think in CA--an entire development was torn down.

Kevin - Yes, there have to be better solutions.

Karen - While you say you're a regular reader, since you're not a member, you're blocked from reading the "Members Only" posts.  You'd be surprised at the number of blog posts written by Realtors(c) criticizing others in their industry. I'm not an agent and have never been one, but I've conducted business with them for 4 decades.  And, as in all professions, there are good and bad.  Realtors(c) didn't cause this mess any more than any other single group.  Many participated, but the problem actually began with GOVERNMENT insisting that more homes be sold to people who could not afford them. Thanks for visiting.

8:24am • #180

Anyone whoever though Bankers were friendly and nice and were your friend are the same one's who think BHO will save this nation.

Steve
8:37am • #181
157,777 Points 11 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I am completely appalled by those who have made the comments about the "people at the banks making $9.00/hour answering the phone".  How completely inconsiderate and ignorant to judge people in such a manner.  These people get yelled and screamed at all day, every day by consumers and real estate agents.  Don't judge until you have walked in their shoes.

Tina in Virginia

9:23am • #182

It's all about the "victims", what do the people get that struggle to make the payment? what government programs are out there for them? If lenders cannot recover an asset when the borrower stops making the payments, there will be no more loans, everyone will have to rent and be at the mercy of the landlords. Deeding the property back to the person that defaulted on the loan! why would anyone ever make any payments?frankly, if these comments on this article are being made by licensed realestate agents. The states should pass laws that requires a college degree in order to get a real estate license and broom out the armatures. 

dave in michigan
12:39pm • #183

You are right! The banks, in general, have no heart.  I watch the national banks' television advertising and it's very 'unbelievable' - I'm not sure who they think they are fooling with the caring slogans and other statements about helping homeowners in our country.  When the banks are hiring staff whose only job is to call distressed homeowners and 'deny them of any loan modification', then take another 6 months to approve a short sale or force the distressed homeowner to sign a deed in lieu of foreclosre, then walk away?? -- there's no heart in that.

Diana Manzato
12:48pm • #184
Localism Sponsor

I think that sherrif departments should no longer force families out of the homes that lenders who are pulling this stuff on own. Perhaps no eviction should take place until after the transfer of the title. IDK but there has to be a way to stop this.

12:57pm • #185

If there is going to be a total loss without any hopes of recovering some or any of the cash, it seems like a lottery or an auction would be a good way to get rid of these properties.

Dale Ross
12:57pm • #186
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

There are those who buy these types of properties and then resell them as in on owner financing or they buy the debt in bulk from the bank and try to salvage the homeowners equity and put the financing at a position that makes sense.

1:31pm • #187
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Kevin - As I understand it, in most, if not all cases, there is no eviction. The owner receives the notice of foreclosure and just moves out to protect his belongings. That's when the thieves and vandals do their work.

3:07pm • #188
JUL
16
189,248 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

No easy solution here, I'm definately not going to feel sorry for the banks. You can't let the owners just 'live' there either. Your talking about turning over the keys before foreclosure & the bank refuses to accept the keys. Wish some legal eagle would pop in and answer that question? I'm sure the bank doesn't have to accept.

9:02am • #190
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lyn - No, as I stated in the post, I don't see a solution. One thing that would help is to force banks to take possession of properties on which they begin foreclosure proceedings. Starting the proceedings drives people out and opens the door to the thieves and vandals. 

9:58am • #191

I have never heard of Bank wlaking away - I can see how that might be the case however, I agree with most that as these banks area willingly accepted bail out money these undesired forcelosed homes are part of the package.

That said, IF this is becomming a prtaice the foreclosed homeowner (lawyer of said person) should develop a release of title document that they them selves can record, there by ending their responsibility toward the property.  Much in the way I would record the release of liability for a car or mobile home sale.  I always advise collecting the nominal recording fee from the new buyer YET sending in the form myself to ensure ite recording.

The government is not helping or recognizinng the issue - Do they have too much else distracting them? or did they just "tip their toe in the water"  sort-of-speak, and go on to something else - without thoroughly investigating the ramifications of the entire situation.

Bottom line I hope some attorney or whomever comes up with with another recordable form so that the foreclosed party can propect themselves instead of assuming the bank is reording new ownership.

 

Jo Baldridge
10:46am • #192
170,168 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jo - The local governments can pass legislation to force lenders to take possession of properties on which foreclosure proceedings have begun. That's where it should begin. And, if I were an owner, I might wait to move out until I was certain that the bank really wanted the property.

11:51am • #193

This seems very sticky.  Add to this problem homes that are officially foreclosed with the bank taking ownership and left vacant for over a year without being placed back on the market.  It would seem to make much better business sense to follow in the Savings and Loan meltdown footsteps as mentioned above and have the banks who hold too many of these non-performing properties fail and then go ahead and allow the market to drop to its level.  

Our country has survived real estate crashes before, 1890s, 1930s, 1980s with the S&L mess and most recently in the early '90s.  I am not sure why we are so afraid this time unless it is because of the exotic securities that have been tied to subprime and even prime mortgages that are now going downhill due to job losses.

The obvious solution is having the local counties follow up on foreclosures and forcing the lender of record to file title in a timely manner.  Maybe we can lobby our county governments to enact legislation or binding rules to that effect.

As far as the abandoned houses, I know numerous people willing to purchase these homes, fix them up and resell them at a fair rate or lease them out as income properties.  This helps both the local economies with property taxes and keeps the neighborhoods in good repair.  It is irresponsible of the lender to not put the foreclosed on property on the market.

By the way, I own my home in an area with numerouse short sales and foreclosures.  Yes, my property values have dropped, but I am saving on the property taxes and I am willing to keep the property as a rental if I choose not to live in it any longer.

I view property for the long term.  There is only so much land to go around and eventually it will all go back up.

2:55pm • #194

I am not one for the bailouts but in Milwaukee where I have originated loans, invested in rental properties and now sell these foreclosures I think it is only good business for the banks to walk away. Not only should they walk away but not lend in this city or others.  The bank is just a big golden goose which is plucked; raped, pillaged and plundered.  Here is what happened in the City of Milwaukee.  During good times the City, FNMA, Milwaukee Bucks, Brewers, Miller Brewery, Harley Davidson... all provided grant money to help the city with its re-investment progorams and such.  Creating these targeted areas for grant money, forgiveable loans and so on.  This created a fenzy of first time buyers and investors.  Some of these investors fled the dot com crash of the market and went into real estate investing into these slummy areas as the grant money was available.  Well then you need the private lenders to provide the large first mortgage on these properties. 

We need to look at the city and how it is being managed.  They conjured up these programs, strong armed the local companies with tax breaks for their benovolence, then we see a massive deregulation pushed by the federal government pushing the lenders to lend in these places.  They were slums and they are still today.  Often times I come across a property that sold for $120,000 to $140,000 in one of these areas and a bank lent on it because there were investors.  What hurt the investors then and what hurts the banks today is the code ordinance which penalizes the private sector with small realtively immaterial issues on these properties.  When an investor has his own focus most likely interior needs of tenants he can not afford the exterior repairs. City starts fining agressively, he can not keep up and foreclosure is inevitable.  Now the bank inherits the problem of the code issues and thus starts getting the fines. 

The city encouraged the investment with the grant money they received, they then start punishing those who invested by agressively going after them with fines not to mention they are receiving taxes on these proeprties.  And after the investment which drove prices from $30,000 average to $120,000 average the city raises assessments to collect higher taxes.  Where is the city putting this new found revenue.  It surely is not back into the neighborhoods that just had new investment no they create more revenue by punishing the homeowners with the code violations.  These investors and the banks did their part to invest into the slummy area to make it better.  I owned one of these properties and the city fined me for not having grass in the yard due to vagrants and vandals.  My tenants did what they could and the police, no response.  The result I received hefty fines for code violation.  I sold out of the city.  Before I did so I went to my court hearing and one investor who had 20 some properties told the judge that he would just let his properties go to foreclosure.  His pockets deeper than mine but he like me knew that there was no business sense in operating in that city.  Who gets hurt and who is doing the hurting is the government who had to bail out the banks for what they created a big mess.  The bank is an easy target because it has the gold but that gold is all the depositors, bond holders, stock holders...  They created a big pile of money for retirenment and investment or rainy day, christmas funds or what have you and those funds of all those people are the target to be plundered by lawyers and law keepers. 

Blame the city, the county, the state and the federal government.  Look how fast they gave the bailout now look how fast they divert the blame from their own doing.

4:23pm • #195
193,796 Points

Perhaps if the REALTOR(r) knows of a particular home headed this way they could talk to the bank about donating the home to a charitable organization.

6:15pm • #196

Again I say "quitcherbichin," step up to the plate, grab and fix the problem on your level.  I don't care if it's mowing the grass of an abandoned house, providing meals to a neighbor and her children living in an almost foreclosed house,  hiring her or her children for what you can afford to pay...

Hey you out there...we're at the bottom...we are in a bigger DEPRESSSION THAN 1930...get your heads out of the sand...stop blaming everyone and anyone...

Grow your own food, make your own soap, turn off your AC, run the computer when you need it...ask your friends, family and co-workers for help.  And you co-workers GIVE what you can. You may be next in line.

Oh and yeah, we in this business need to quit trying to repay ourselves for the monies we've lost over the past 4 years.  We've always given up portions of our commissions to make a deal work.  Maybe now we to seriously consider a new way of being compensated.  How does a bucket of potatoes grab you?  Fees for services instead of commissions, or barters, or trades, etc. 

And hello you lenders...you might want to consider the idea that if 70% of homes are sold via Realtors, you should pony up with similar programs for your borrowers.  How about gathering half interest, quarter community service and quarter in goods?  I'll leave it up to you to figure than one out since money people are always assumed to be smarter than we dumb plebians.

Well, just wanted to get your attention. 

Sally Rackey, RealtyOne Alliance, Sarasota FL

Sally Rackey
9:19pm • #197
JUL
17

  As realtors, we all know that the banks are mainly responsible for where we are today with their loose lending laws. However, it occurs to me that we as the realtors need to take action and do something to try and set it straight.  I will start with prayer to the most powerful entity I know, Jesus,  and follow up with a letter to my local representative to see if we can start the ball rolling

Dianne Camella
6:26am • #198

Sally Rackey, RealtyOne Alliance, Sarasota FL 

Thank you about quit your bitchin.  My wife and I are agents who do what you describe.  I give charitably as well to help the poor.  We do a lot of foreclosure business and we give back.  The part about cutting your neighbors lawn is close to my heart as it keeps the government out of the business of being the nanny state.  A common complaint against properties is the way the neighbors yard looks and the neighbors call the city rather than take matters in their own hands, they rather pay the government to employ one more controlling agency rather than live free and sweat a little.  Our field crews have mowed not only our lawns but the neighbors where there are elderly and single moms, they have cleared snow for them as well and they do so anonymosly.  It took one elderly lady almost two years to figure out one of our crews mowed her grass and plowed her driveway and removed snow from her walks and she lives across from our office.  We believe in community building from the example of the immigrants who came here and had their homes built through the practice of home raising.  It is the best form of charity as it brings a community closer together and does not involve the dollar, it involves pure intention.  Now my wife and I do not make our own soap we do raise and grow our own food.  What we can not consume goes to food bank.

Now with regard to banking and real estate, the sub prime or predatory lenders were harshly regulated and as a former loan officer I never originated a sub prime loan as I did not like them but they did take the risk to help someone purchase a home.  There are free economic principles that play where a lender and borrower meet.  Government got involved and reuglated them out and then required good conservative lenders to fill the void.  The deregulated the conforming lending of FNMA and FHLMC then pushed them to fill the void of the sub prime by lending to the sub prime borrower.  The high rates of sub prime account for the risk to modify the losses but for the conforming lenders they were forced to expand their risk position without the benefit of charging the proper amounts to take on that risk.  This is what we got when socialism of government intervention happens in the free market.  I never was one to feel bad for the banks but I forget we are all vested in them one way or another as we have various types of deposits in them so they can operate responsibly with our money.  They can not guard our money when the government forces them into a risk position.

As stated in the first paragraph volunteer to help the neighborhoods and get the government out of the private property.  In my prior response I mentioned code enforcement or most commonly referred to as department of neighborhood services.  There is no service but a disservice as when we call them to deal with a neighbor we put undue stress on that neighbor's already stressed situation and cause them to the sheriiff sale.  Bank takes property and it just spirals down from there.  Get out and help that neighbor for you own pocket's sake as well as your own liberty.  Afterall once the government meets demand by employing enough enforcement people they never downsize them out.  Let us eliminate this demand and force the government to downsize.  Let us eliminate this demand and take actions for our liberties and build our communities.  Let us release ourselves as real estate professionals from greed and avarice and start legitimizing our profession and that is to protect and garranty that private property(real estate) stays privately owned and regulated.

Mark Moen
8:03am • #200

If I was an investor and I found out my bank had performed millions of dollars in walk aways instead of at least getting some of the equit back or at least restructuring the loan so at least I can get some profit back which is better than no profit I would wonder if a class action lawsuit against a bank was in order.  However most of the investors are not individuals they are institutions whose customers are individual investors in mutual funds and other investment vehichles.  That being said some of the big pension funds for teachers have sued and maybe they should be paying attention to this.  This is my consumer opinion!

angry investor
8:04am • #201

You've got me shaking my head.

8:40am • #202
JUL
18
Outside Blog

Wow.... I thought I'd heard it all. There ought to be a law. If they don't want the house just give it to the homeowner..

8:08pm • #203
JUL
20

Good points, it is so important I think to try and do a short sale on these properties.  Encourage the home owner to stay in the home until the bank approves the short sale.  I have ran into some sceanrios that the home has been forecloses on for a couple of months and the owners or previous owner I guess are still living in the home.

1:28pm • #206

LOts of good information, after reading 15 minutes of post... I find myself shaking my head... blood pressure up, and sighing.

9:53pm • #207
JUL
21

I myself have not seen this happen in Michigan yet.  But, knowing the redemption period, then the eviction process.  Why would one move out?  Just as Lynn stated, it is up to the municipalities to keep this within their ordinance.

Wendy Valko
6:12am • #209

I totally agree with you about this problem.  If this situation is not addressed soon, crime rates will definitely go up in areas where houses are abandoned.

Sybil Campbell
11:00pm • #210
JUL
24

the only way to fix it is for the bank to quit asking for all this paperwork from sellers on short sales and start approving short sales in a matter of days.  Who cares if they "qualify" for a short sale.  The fact is they are not paying their mortgage and you will get the house back anyways.  If the bank is worrying about the "unqualified" slipping through the cracks, well, they already are.

Rob Jenson
1:22am • #213
JUL
27

Banks are unfeeling, unemotional corporations - doing whatever is best for their bottom line.  That's it.

2:40pm • #215
AUG
04

Thanks for sharing information..The foreclosure process  applied to selling or repossessing a  real property. Banks following foreclosure strictly. To avoid foreclosure you prevent the filing of a Notice of Default and pay the amount on time after getting loan.

 

http://www.lasvegasrelocation.com

John Camway
7:13am • #216

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John Mulkey, Housing Guru

Waleska, GA

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