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Feedback lawsuit

A local agent here (Another office, not mine Thank God) is being sued over a feedback issue;

The Listing Agent calls for feedback and is told by the Buyer's Agent that the buyers thought "the colors were tacky". The Listing Agent agent passes this onto their client.

A week goes by and the buyers can't find another home to fit their needs, so they decide they can redecorate the tacky colored house. So they make an offer. The sellers ask if these are the same people that made the comment and the listing agent confirms it is. The sellers counter at full asking price because they are upset.

The buyers are OK with the full price until they get to the closing table and they find out from apparently the Selliers attorney that the Sellers requested full price because they were really upset about the Tacky Color comment. The buyers are now suing their agent for disclosing information because they feel they could have gotten a better price if this information wasn't passed on.

This puts a whole new spin on my thoughts about feedback! What's your opinion?

Posted by; Vicki Watzlawick, Broker Owner, Exit Platinum Realty, Lake In The Hills,IL www.vickisdreamhomes.com

Posted by Vicki Watzlawick (Illinois Foreclosure Expert) on 06/04/2007 01:09 PM

Comments (291)

real estate feedback, agent feedback, home feedback, illinois real estate

Post is included in group: Realtors®

291 Comments on Feedback lawsuit

JUN

2007

Wow. After the buyers sue the agent, perhaps the agent can sue the big mouth attorney. The attorney, in turn, can sue the sellers for having a tacky house to begin with. Who can then sue THEIR agent, for not insisting that they repaint the tacky colors...

but wait...the buyers agent can also sue the sellers agent, for compromising his position with his buyers by telling the sellers about the "tacky" comment...

Wow, that could be a wakeup call. I don't think I would have told the listing agent the deco was "tacky". I would have said something PC like "it didn't meet their needs". Frankly, I wouldn't have wanted to alienate the sellers right off the bat because the buyers had some interest - I would be hedged my bets at that point. It's not unusual for buyers to go back to previous home.

In all honesty it comes down to confidentiality - did the agent break that - it is a good practice when providing feedback to simply say - they are still looking or that the home did not fit what they are currently looking for.

Most of us never stop to think about something this silly being confidential but it is - what your client says to you is confidential unless they have given you permission to share it and I would ask for it in writing.

The agents action did hurt her client - she broke the client confidence when she shared the thoughts that would upset most sellers

What was the relationship between the buyer and the "agent"? Was their a written BA Agreement, which would establish fiduciary, and confidentiality??

Interesting. I've always been puzzled by the process of "feedback". I don't ask for it. I figure I should know what I need to know to list and sell. I also figure that if a buyer was interested, they'd make an offer.

I have gotten feedback calls from listing agents who disclose information they should NOT. But, I never think much about it. Buyers are either going to like a home or they are not. Just because someone hears what someone said probably didn't change anything.

That agent does appear to have a rather big mouth.

I have had agents ask for feed back when I previewed a property to only get angry or defensive if I point out something obvious like the grass needs cutting or the home needs cleaning. I have learned to stay PC, because most people really do not want feed back.

Seems silly and petty, but I think that Thesa is right. Thanks for the wake up call, I just gave some feedback the other day that might not have been 100% okay for me to have given. Luckily, I was looking at homes for myself....hmmmm, I wonder if my errors and omissions insurance would cover me suing me? It's an idea?

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Laurie and the only ones that will profit will be the attornies! The Sellers Agent couldn't compromise the Buyers position, I guess unless he was told to keep this info conifdential?

Jeff I am very straight forward and I too would pass on that info. I think it helps the Seller to know what is wrong. If a house smells like cat urine..I tell them! It drives me crazy when I get a call from an agent and all they say is "It wasn't the right house for them", and they don't tell me why. But now I guess i understand why. I guess in the future to CMA and my agent's we will need to have the buyers sign some sort of consent to disclose comments form..or just stop giving feedback. I'm thinking when we represent the Buyer and we are asked for feedback I might now be motivated to reply...I'm sorry but I represent the Buyer and their information is confidential.

Thesa I now agree after hearing all this, buy honestly I wouldn't have given this subject any thought if this didn't happen.

Lenn I understand that there was no BA but the fact that she represented them and wrote an offer that was accepted does prove that their was a client relationship formed. But the comments were made before the offer. It will be interesting to watch this one!

Randy I think I'll be doing the same real soon!

Bob Thats a definate Error in my book!

Vicki, I tell my sellers at the listing appointment that we are not going to sugar coat any feedback. What ever we hear is what we pass on... But, this is really concerning.

Vicki

I used Fax Feedback and it's very helpful. I obtain the agent's comments in their own handwriting. I guess I could use email, but there is nothing like having the seller read what the buyer's agent wrote.

It sounds as if the comments were relayed orally. If that is the case, SOMEBODY, should have protected the sellers interests. Decorating is a personal issue. Getting back to that Sixty Minutes issue...if we are really professional, we wouldn't say some of the things we do, would we (and I am including myself here, too).

However, I would hope that if the comment was written, that the agent would have called the buyer's agent is said something such as, "Are you sure you really want me to give this to my sellers? If our roles were reversed, would you?"

My standard feedback response "The home shows well but my clients are still searching" feedback is a catch 22 if you are honest you get reamed, if you are vague you get reemed, unless I am putting in an offer I keep it neutral,

I think feedback, although sometimes helpful (especially if you are looking for a price reduction and the feedback is that it seems overpriced) is normally a waste of time. Just because 1 Buyer doesn't like the color per se, the next might love it! Who wants to second guess a Buyer? Anyway, if a Buyer is interested, the agent will contact you with questions or better yet, an offer.

PS You are right, the big mouth attourneys are going to make the $$ (if it actually goes to court, which I highly doubt)

Missy..my thoughts exactly!

Keith I would think backing it up in writing would make this twice as bad! Does that fax have a ok to disclose to Seller statement on it written by an attorney?

Rebecca So then why bother? If you show a dump..you would say the same thing?

If my clients are interested in a home I don't leave feedback until they decide to put an offer and it's negotiated. Any comments on price/likes/dislikes could affect the negotiating. I guess I try to keep feedback vague.

That is so surprising. I've never heard about being sued based on feedback comments!! But I agree with the other members that we should keep our feedback comments neutral. Lesson learned!

WOW. I guess i need to be more careful about what i say. I think i will send an email rather then post the feedback to the mls site. Does your MLS system consider feedback to be confidential? if so then maybe the agent isn't in trouble. i would be pretty upset if i was getting sued by a client of mine. i guess maybe he should have take them to lunch one more time. Maybe we should all take the sugarcoating a bit more seriously. In the free country we live in i guess your not entitled to your own opinion about a house anymore. In what type of relationship was the broker acting for the client? (in Colorado we have Agency and Transaction Brokerage) not sure if that would have made the difference in this case or not. What a very interesting story. I hope it makes it to the MSN or whatever web start up page you use for a believe it or not type story.

Is the monster pig real or a fake? how is Paris handling her first day in Jail and who will be her first conjugal visit? And this out of the Real Estate world. When does a tacky color equal a lawsuit?

Stephanie They said the didn't like the home so I guess he assumed they were not interetsed. Then changed their minds. I agree on the interested part..if my clients show a slight interest, I won't be leaving feedback because then I feel I could be showing the seller's agent that my client is interested and he then thinks he has a captured audience. I will tell the Seller's agent that we are narrowing our choices and I will get back to them.

Linda Thanks!

Vicki...our MLS has a system for written OR oral feedback and I have never given any thought to passing along feedback to my sellers UNLESS it is insulting, which I guess they thought it was when the buyers used the word tacky. In my area of the country, most of our sllers could care less what the buyer's SAY as long as they WRITE up an offer.

Regards...Jay

Vicki- if the sellers agent requested feedback, and the buyers agent provided the feedback that came from the clients, no wrongdoing took place, fiduciary or otherwise. The buyers paid what they felt the house was worth (tacky or not) but we live in a lawsuit happy environment, which I'm sure was no secret to the attorney that was present, and created the bedlam. If a selling agent wants feedback, it's a cooperative effort- the selling agent is seeking this info at the bequest of the sellers. That they don't like what they heard is not the basis for a lawsuit. I'm going to continue to provide accurate feedback.

Well, this is one of the great things about Active Rain. Imagine, a lawsuit over feedback! I have never been comfortable with feedback, it stirs too many emotions. When I receive the faxed version I generally delete it without responding. The phone calls? Well there really aren't many of them. I leave messages for feedback and rarely get a call back. An agent calls to show a listing of mine, I ask them to call with feedback, they rarely do. I almost never give feedback and generally just say it wasn't the right house for them, too big, too small, etc... We constantly learn here on Active Rain. Whooda thunk it?

I just looked ... you're in Illinios? People act like that here is Los Angeles, I didn't think they did in your part of the country!

Marcus You rock! That was an awesome cute response! Thanks for putting me up there with the Monster Pig! LOL

an easy way to avoid this is ask your client to complete a feed back form - either in writing or online - I use www.showingfeedback.comwhich is free - now when you are the selling agent you can still add these to your list it is time consuming so I simply give a buyer a copy of this with each home and a photo from the MLS for each showing - if they complete it I share it - if not I use the canned approach - they are still looking - it did not suit their needs - or if I see something that really stands out - I mention it nd clarify that this is my opinion not my buyers - but I am careful to only give the basics like the day we were there I noticed an odor in the home - do the sellers have cats? I am not saying the house stinks - I am not saying the seller needs to get a clue - I let the listing agent do that - drop the hint without putting the property down.

The old standard..."not what my clients were looking for" seems very appropriate now. I don't believe I would ever say "tacky" maybe "not neutral enough" would suffice!

Vicki, I thought about that after I left the page. sorry.

We are looking for a new home so I have been reluctant to give any feedback on homes we might be interested in. If I were to give any, I might be compromising our position when it comes time to write an offer. We have worried about the exact issue you write about, that a seller might counter back with a higher price due to being offended. Thanks for bringing this to everyones attention.

Cheryl I really think it's the tough market that is fueling these lawsuits. It seems everyone is on edge lately. It would be interesting to see the number of Real Estate lawsuits per State. (So I know where to move too) LOL

Jay feedback is BIG here!

Laurie Thanks! I emailed my attorney to get his take on this as well. I'll post it IF he says I can!

Thesa..Does Showing Feedback have a disclosure statement in it?

Gary Their words are coming back to haunt them and now the poor Realtor is going to pay, but on the other hand, he was representing them and maybe should have asked them if it was OK to pass on the info. I've never asked but you betcha my offices feedback policies are changing this week!

Stephanie I understand and thanks

Jennifer Thank you so much! It's nice to know our posts on AR are helping others. Good luck with the purchase.

The real interesting part is going to be determining the damages or if any should be awarded. The buyers did not need to buy the house, but they did anyway. It was a choice. The potential price that the sellers might have taken can not be assessed as the property, one of a kind, has been sold at x price. Who knows that someone else would have paid for it or what other price the sellers may have considered? How about terms? Stupid to sue over if you ask me.

Hi Vicki,

Boy, this gives food for thought. I guess maybe we all need to adopt the "Thumper method" of communication, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all". I shall adopt that method and utilize it when feedback is requested.

As for this situation, I have to agree that, based upon the facts as presented, these buyer's might just have a case. But, if they are going to go down that road (legal ping pong) then they should also probably sue the seller's and their reps for discrimination, based upon the fact that the offer was countered at full price because of a demonstrated prejudice against the people who made it.

By asking if these were the people who made the negative comment about the paint job, the seller's showed their intent to discriminate and, now that I think about it, the buyer's agent might also have a case against the seller's rep. Since the information about the comment made by the buyer's is not a material fact, it could be argued that the comment being revealed to the seller's, would be done only for the purposes of prejudicing the sellers. I see it as falling into the same category as answering questions or discussing with your clients the race, creed, color or religious preference or sexual orientation of the buyer's or seller's and we are all quite clear on the fact that we can't do that.

This should be a very interesting case. Please make sure to keep us all up on the results,

Thanks,

Tisza

Rich I agree it seems to be petty, but the Buyer feels his statements should have been protected by his agent and his agent's actions with disclosing his Buyers information caused him to pay more for the house. There weren't any more homes they liked and they were AT the closing table when they got this news. I agree on price..,I'm sure the house appraised out so it was worth it. I'd be guessing the judge will be relying heavily on what the Sellers statements are.

Vicki - Wow, what a slippery slope. I have so many thoughts on this, I just don't know where to begin.

Tisza Good point about the seller discriminating, but I think that falls under Freedom Of Speech and all though I agree that they were singled out and apparently punished for their remarks, I don't think discrimination will become a part of this. Maybe the Buyers need the "Thumper Method!" I hope my entire office reads your Thumper remarks! That's some GREAT advice. Thanks!

Sue At the beginning! :) Let us know your thoughts after you think it over.

Interesting! But it doesn't surprise me...if they did not sue over this they would of found something else to sue over. I send e-mails requesting feedback...I say the seller would like any feedback on the proeprty and that any information shared will be shared with the seller.

This is such a 'sue-happy' world today.

RE: feedback The only feedback that matters is if there is going to be an offer or not. I got a call this morning for feedback, I sent my buyers to an Open House yesterday it was their 2nd showing. My buyers just informed me they decided to rent because they don't have enough time since it won't close until August if they buy. So it really doesn't matter that they loved it they are not buying it.

I just heard of a lawsuit here with a different twist. The buyers agent didn't have a buyers agreement or have the buyer sign an agency disclosure form. Therefore it is recognized by the state that the buyers agent is a sub agent of sellers agent and fiduciary is to seller.

At the closing buyer says to seller " I would have paid the full ask but my agent said it wasn't worth it" Sellers attorney than says the buyers agent is not getting their commission because their fiduciary to seller was broken.

This is just nuts!

I think we should have a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy.

I think I will respond to any requests for feedback with a link to this post.

I don't have an opinion, because I am not a Realtor... But as someone who is not in the business of selling homes, I LOVE THESE KINDS OF STORIES!

I wish more people would tell interesting, wacky stories like this. This is good reading. Thank you.

Mary Isnt it sad?

Mitch That ones a little more believable. But I'd still be extremely upset if I were the Buyers agent..sub agency or not. He brought them to the table and if he said it wasn't worth it he should have had a Buyers Analysis to prove it!

Tim I sent it to all my agents..it will be interesting to see what we incorporate as a new feedback policy in my office!

Wow! What is it all coming to?

Karen Thanks! I love this blog..becasue it's opening a lot of eyes! I hope we all can learn from it. It would be great if there were a lot more blogs like this!

Dan Pretty soon we will all need attornies to accompany us through out the entire transaction! Either that or Duct tape! :)

It is, unfortunately, a double-edged sword. As a homeowner selling my home, I would want to know why people are or aren't interested in purchasing my home, but as a professional in the business, I'd have to be careful about how much I really can say. I truly think it all narrows down to how things are spoken...the seller would probably not have been upset if the agent had simply said that the buyer liked the home, but would prefer different paint colors for their own taste. I'd prefer to hear that over "tacky" any day!

Stacy Good idea! I guess I'll think about my wording more carefully in the future! But I'm still curious as to how much legally we can disclose.

You would think an attorney would keep his mouth shut unless he was trying to incite trouble...possibly creating more business, if not for himself then for a colleague??? Maybe the parties being sued should sue him for making it known to the buyers that the sellers held out for full price due to the feedback.

This is the craziest thing I have ever heard. But I can tell you right now, it could have been avoided by either Realtor being more tactful. You don't relay a message from your buyers that they thought the 'Colors where tacky' you come up with something a little more creative. I would probably have said that the house showed well, but my buyers were concerned with some redecorating they might want to do. You don't say 'TACKY COLORS' ! As a Buyers Representative your client is your buyer and he probably should not have been so descriptive with his choice of words. And on the other hand the sellers agent could have been just as tactful. Then nobody would have been pissed off. Yes I think the whole thing is just stupid and I don't like lawyers that much, but come on its not the attorney's fault. It should have never of gotten that far imo.

Renee I never thought of that angle! Good stuff!

Chris I agree with you and Stacy on the wording, but I am still wondering if they would have gotten upset no matter what words were used? You know how some personalities are.

Is this considered a material fact? If so, it would have to have been conveyed to the best of the agent's ability to repeat the comment.

It really does come down to confidenality. In my office we have always been discuraged about giving feed back for this very reason. It is always safer to say "My clients have not given me permission to diclose any information" and leave it at that. That way you don't find your self in a law suit like this one.

Tanks Lisa Stevenson

I do not recal showingfeedback having a disclosure - but you can choose the questions - like price how did it show and so on...

Vicki, Interesting how much did that comment cost?

What about the attorney who stirrred stuff up at the closing table? Does he/she share any liability?

Deb I'm thinking it's color so is that a material fact? That's a tough call. I would think the attorney has a duty to his client as well and perhaps did the wrong thing by repeating it so I'm certain he will be included in this. I'll let you know as it unfolds.

Mitchell I'll try and follow the lawsuit and let you know once it is all said and done.

Vicki, Nice hornets nest you've stepped in here. Feedback is a relatively big issue here. I showed homes like crazy last week and received calls for feedback all hours of the day and weekend and, mostly now, via email. Sounds like something that could easily slip out of my mouth since I usually tell it like it is -- always appreciated by listing agents. Something to think about, for sure.

Joe Thanks! I'm still leaning on the side of having the buyer sign a simple form. I know if we stop giving feedback that the other offices will use that against us at a listing presentation and feedback beleive it or not carrys a LOT of weight here!

He stated the buyers opinion, you know what they say about opinions. Where is it written that opinions need to be disclosed? The sellers could decide they don't like the buyers because the seller drives a BMW and the buyer drives a Volks Wagon, but the opinion should never have decided or started any of this. I think everyone in that situation should grow up and I think the judge should throw out the case.

Another waste of our tax dollars squabbling over stupid sh..... imo

Now that'a a tale that I won't forget. Let us know how it turns out.

Chris I think it's a lesson to be learned and something us Broker Owners will need to adapt certain rules for. We know all about not disclosing our sellers information, so when representing a Buyer, I guess repeating their info, wether opinion or not, might be a form of disclosing information. You know how that is going to shake down..it's whatever they can prove it in writing. If they had no BA signed then perhaps it is all for naught.

Judi I will..thank you!

It would be interesting to watch the out come of the Lawsuit, just because they are suing their agent does not mean that their agent did something wrong he or she is innocent until proof-en guilty, may be they are suing the wrong person in my opinion ,please keep us posted as they proceed.

Thanks Paul..I will! proof-en..cute!

people will sue over anything these days..........that poor agent

Well, that is interesting. But you see, the listing agent and seller wanted feedback, so the "lookers" gave them their honest opinion. Now the seller's countered back with the full price offer and the buyers accepted it. I dont see how this could hold up in court if the buyers are trying to sue their agent. He did not force them to buy or to accept the counteroffer. So, now us agents need to worry about giving honest feedback about homes we have shown, in fear of being sued? That is a bunch of crap. Does make you think though.

If I'm representing a buyer I don't give a lot of feedback.

If my buyers loved the house and I tell the listing agent that fact I believe it could compromise my buyer client's negotiating position.

If they hated it or it's a dump I say it wasn't the house for them.

Our state association buyer agency agreement has a section where the buyers can give their agent permission to disclose any information that might be confidential. Unless there's something filled out there it's all confidential.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT ATTORNEY?????? Doesn't sound too smart or hasn't been in this business very long! I find it outrageous that he said it. At least the agents knew to keep quiet.

WOW... that is amazing.

I get all the sides and all the points of view. And to be honest I don't know WHAT to think.

I know sellers that WANT to know what is working against the sale from the seller's perspective.

Color is a VERY subjective thing. However as a stager, if the colors WERE "tacky" I would have pointed that out to the sellers and guide them to colors that have more universal appeal. If they were fine... then I would do nothing.

Liz It's a crying shame!

Joe I still think even though the listing agent asked for their opinion that they might be breaking some sort of disclosure rules. I agree it's a bunch of BS but thank god it wasn't me!

Jim I see you are in Tennessee. I will look at my Buyers Agency AGreement, I'm pretty sure it states we can't disclose anything without their consent.

Gee-wiz! Call me old fashioned, but if I were selling a house, I'd WANT decent feedback -- and that's not the same as sugar-coated feedback. After all, if after a few showings there was a consensus that my choice in home colors was causing potentials to look elsewhere, I'd want to know.

Heck, I'd want to repaint.

I think the delivery of the feedback, as it was collected from the potential buyer is invaluable information. I also think that if the sellers disagreed, they should have been able to say "different strokes for different folks" and let it go at that.

Holding a grudge over a difference in preferred colors is a little juvenile. Getting a lawyer involved... well that's just moronic, IMHO.

How's that for opinionated? Don't ask me what I think of the color you painted your kitchen!!! :)

Debbie As slow as the market is right now..I'm sure their pocketbooks motivated them to keep quiet!

Craig You should teach a staging class for us Realtors!

Sounds like these sellers are still emotional 2-year-olds!

As far as the feedback goes, though, shouldn't there be some differentiation between the agent's feedback and the prospective buyers' position? I tend to give my opinions on feedback calls regarding price, conditions, decor, etc., and say little about the buyer's opinions apart from the "didn't meet their needs" or "they've offered on another property" kinds of things.

Thanks for the information.

I just sent it to my broker who has printed it out and is going to present it at our office meeting tomorrow morning.

I guess the moral is that agents should only give our own personal impressions and opinions. The only things we really need to tell the other agent about our Buyers is that they did not make an offer yet.

This is truly amazing and I didn't have time to read all the comments in reply to the post. However, this is what I am thinking: there has to be a middle ground. Perhaps the Buyer's Agent or the Seller's Agent could have said something like, "They weren't satisfied with the color scheme." This way truthful feedback is given, but it isn't insulting to the Seller's taste. Then if the buyer comes back, the Buyer's agent can say something to the effect that they have decided that they can easily change the colors and that they like the house itself.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but I will be cautious when giving feedback after reading this.

Angela You go girl!! My kind of agent! Tell it like it is.

Brian I would imagine the agent is going to take that position, but then again they aren't going to fedss up using the word TACKY. I guess it doesn't mattter wether the agent chose the words, or the buyer did, the end result would still be the same.

Sarah I'd be curious to know what the outcome of your meeeting is! Mines next Tuesday. Thanks for sharing!

Robin Thanks,,that was suggested earlier and I agree that's the way to go. Choose our words carefully or get the buyers to sign something..add it too our BAs that we will be reporting their feedback to the sellers.

Looks like your post has created a buzz....I like feedback on showings and like to share it with the seller. I usually followup with a phone call since many do not bother to respond to automated emails. Sometimes it motivates the seller to take care of items already suggested. However, I don't present it word for word, I don't want it to offend them, you can still deliver the message in a gentler manner. This will be interesting to learn the out come.

And the truth is, if the buyer's agent had said something PC like 'the house just isn't right for them' or 'it's a bit too small' then these same sellers could have come back at full list price because they were pissed that the buyers thought it 'just wasn't right'. People are a varied bunch! lol Yes the attys are the ones who win.

Renae..I'll keep everyone posted. Might be 2010 the way the courts work here, (JK) for the attornies, but I'll do my best.

Carole I think global warming is effecting everyone these days! Or are there that many full moons? LOL!

Vicki, Very interesting discussion. Sounds like a frivilous law suit to me. But you never know. If the buyers agent had a fiduciary he should not be opening his mouth. Currious to see how it comes out.

Thanks Bryant!

It's much easier if the buyer is also a seller. I generally tell my buyers that the listing agent may call for feedback, and is there anything I should tell them? Then the buyer will tell you what to say.

A little tact with the feedback issue could have avoided all of this.

Sharon..great advise! Ask first. Don't assume it's OK to share anymore.

Carol A few of us agree, but certain people can never be pleased so perhaps no matter what they were told, it could have ended up this way.

Well I sure don't think that lawsuit will go anywhere but the agent could have been more tactful with the feedback issue. I see no point in telling a seller their colors are "tacky."

Diane Yes Tacky could have been more tactfully stated. Say that 3 times real fast!

What has our world coming to. First sueing because the coffee at Mcdonalds is too hot now this. It is ridiculous, and I am a son o fan attorney who would definitely agree. Sue Happy we are. The only thing tacky about this is how wacky they are going to feel when they have to pay the realtors attorney's fees as well. Good luck

David If sue happy people stopped and thought about what they might ending up paying before getting so hot headed, perhaps there would be a lot less lawsuits!

I agree it may seem frivolous, but I would bet that it won't even make it to court... E&O will pay out on this one.

Sarah Good point! I bet $10,000 would make these peeps drop it. But what about the Realtors commissions? Would you roll over this quickly?

When I first started reading I thought it was foolish but you enlightened me with that interesting twist. Sounds like it could be a troubling technicality. Keep us posted on the results.

Thanks Dan! I will keep you posted. I had to go peek..you really run! Cute slogan!

Interesting post, Vicki. This raises some intriguing questions about confidentiality, fiduciary responsibility and so on. Seems to me the attorney has some culpability here. But the agent really was remiss in being so honest with the comment. One can understand, in this age of increasing litigation, how not sharing any information unless required maybe the best course of action. The listing agent certainly ought to know what the issues are, and if the buyers don't make an offer then there are clearly some issues for them.

Jeff

Vicki- just revisited- I'm thinking that the listing agent, frustrated with the tacky colors, probably had a "moment" and just spilled it to the sellers in order to get them to REPAINT. Easier to throw the buyers agent under the bus, and get it accomplished. The attorney present simply added fuel to the fire- how else to get paid? Unbelievable. Thanks for the thought provoking post!

Some of the new automated feedback companies say that its great for the sellers to hear the feedback right from the source. It sounds good but this is the result. The bottom line is that buyers do not owe feedback to anyone and now, buyer agents will not be willing to offer any. Most of the time, negative feedback is not necessary, issues are usually obvious to all who are open minded. Most sellers who have overpriced their homes or have not prepared them are aware of it whether they admit it or not.

Looks like the ball is back in the listing agent's court to straighten out misguided sellers.

Of course colors are irrelevant anyway, I never take those comments seriously.

Excellent discussion and wonderful thoughts from all. I will be styaing tuned to see what happens on this. Thanks for sharing Vicki!

Very nice post Vicki. Obviously the seller's agent is in the clear. The buyer's agent on the other hand is on the hook....so to speak. Almost anyone could have fallen into that trap of repeating a comment. Keep thy mouth shut is the 11th commandment!

Whenever I give feedback, I'm always very vague and talk in general terms, because the buyer could come back later and want to negotiate on that home. I also think most sellers can figure out what their home's short-comings are.

Wow! That's too bad for the buyers agent - it's an easy mistake to make. But I'm not sure that passing on the 'tacky color' comment was in their clients best interest. Breach of fiduciary duty? Almost for sure. Ouch.

Funny though... where does the attorney fall in this whole thing? Is it normal or appropriate for the attorney to discuss anything to do with the negotiation process while at the closing? The attorney is lucky that their statement didn't blow the whole deal. The attorney needs to feel some of the pain here.

And finally - what are the actual damages? The buyer was happy until they thought that they may have been able to get the home for less? Do you think that the seller will ever admit that they would have sold it to these buyers for less, if by saying so, they know that the buyers will get money? I don't think so. Probably just something that the E&O policy will cover - and then the brokers rates will go up.

So, what do you say when asked for feedback? 'My clients liked the home, they're just not ready to make a decision yet'. Useless feedback? Yes... but it's safe - for you and you're client.

Great Post! Good reminder to be careful what you say.

Jeff intriguing questions about confidentiality, fiduciary responsibility and so on, INDEED! Thanks for the comments.

Laurie I doubt that is the case because it almost didn't come up at all. If the attorney hadn't of slipped at closing I think none of this would have happened.

George I hope this post ends up with those feedback companies so they can add some verbage to protect my fellow agents!

Thanks Carl!

Gary Thands for the kind words and I love that 11th commandment!

Dan I'll be raking heed to that advise after this!

If my buyers said the colors are "tacky" I would probably just tell the listing agent that they didn't want to have to paint to their color scheme. Which is true. The problem came in the form of communication. As usual.

Chris I agree, and now the agent is eating those words letter by letter. I bet they don't use the word Tacky for a long while.

You will have to keep us posted. I often just say it wasn't a good fit for the buyer -- I never comment on price. If, there is an issue -- e.g., strong pet odors -- I just say it was a turnoff to me and they may want to consider airing out the house!

Joan I'm watching this one closely and might be issuing a feedback gag order for my agents until our attorney comments on this. I emailed him today and will let everyone know what he says, provided of course he allows me to post it. Thanks for the comment!

Wha a nightmare for the buyers agent..........................a good warning for us all to be very careful what we say.

Thanks Michael, This will surely be the topic at my next office meeting.

Vicky,

Experience has taught me not to say everything my clients tell me. I do not lie, but I definitely ry to be more polite when asked for feedback. Also, I wonder if the listing agent ever told them that the color were an eyesore (not like that, of course). I always tell my clients if I think the colors are not going to be as popular and most people already know that. Anyway it is a very interesting story, sometimes no matter what you do, some clients would not be happy and try to find an issue with your performance. Maybe there is more to the story than we know.

Oh my.....what a place to be in. I don't know what to think. If they buyers win, agents will have to give the generic feedback. It could be bad for sellers. If there is something (like paint colors) that bother buyers, they will never know. Also, they were willing to pay that price. They could have negiotate less or just walked away.

WOW....

Nobody is suing the loan officer?

j/k

This is interesting....

Carmen & Christy Experience had taught me to be honest and not sugar coat things. I thought before today that the more honest I was the more likely a Seller is to take that advise and if they hear it a few times, correct that. I can't imagine not telling someone that their dog left us a gift. How do you sugar coat that? I myself left feedback about a mean cat and 6 months later I showed the house again..not remembering the mean cat and the cat attacked my leg! I was NOT happy with this agent. I agree Christy... Why ask for feedback if it's all lies? Is it that what feedback is all about? I'll just set my feedback line to say.."The feedback on your property was the client thought the house just wasn't right for them, Thanks for calling and have a nice day! "

Vicki..... Sorry, late to this party. I liked laurie's first comment... funny. And Lenn Harley brings up some good points. And Tom's comment was funny.... But overall, what can actually be done in regards to this. I didn't read all of the comments. Anyone know the true law when it comes to this? I think the attorney could be in trouble. But was it the professor in the library with the lead pipe? Keep us posted.

On another note, CONGRATS on your 1st featured post.

featured

jeff belonger

And Vicki... I agree with your last statement, not to sugar coat things. Do you speak your mind? This has gotten me in trouble even on AR.... And I agree ...why ask for feedback when it could all be lies. I don't understand why people just can't be upfront. At least e-mail me if you have a problem. Anyhoo.... I am getting off subject.

jeff

If I ask for feedback, I want to know what the buyers are thinking. Will I use their exact wording with my sellers? Probably not. I feel one can get the point across without sugarcoating it, or hurting feelings...

sueing is bs, people do it but, we need to stop sueing for every penny we can. Just like the gal that spilled coffe on her lap and got money for it. She should have spilled her coffe it was her fault

Thanks Jeff! Woo hoo! A toast to all of you for your help! My first featured post and it has been a great one. So many wonderful peeps with comments. I have my attorney giving us his comments in the next day or two and we will see what he states is legal..here in Illinois anyway.

Tim Thanks..that seems to be the consensus today..choose your words carefully!

Eric It's sad what this world is coming to. The amount of lawsuits pertaining to Real Estate that I have seen in our areas this past year is crazy! It's such a busy thing my attorney just hired an attorney that specializes in Real Estate and Rental litigation!

The things people sue for these days are ridiculous. Although I can see where the sellers would have some grounds to bring suit. I guess we all need to be careful about the feedback we give, although I'd say the attorney should have kept his big mouth shut!

Ryan The BUYERS are suing. Not the sellers.

Oops, sorry about the typo. I knew that, just had a little brain freeze :)

JUN

2007

Ryan..I'm glad I'm not the only one with sometimers! I blame them moments on the blonde hair!

Wow, I guess we need to watch what we say to anyone!! I previewed a home for a client a couple of weeks ago, as soon as I walked in, an overwhelming cat 'smell' came over me. When I mentioned this to my buyer, they decided not to look at this home. However, when the listing agent called me for feedback, I told her about the smell (which she knows about, but the seller is immune to the smell and doesn't smell it). Incredible story...

Thanks Karen! Hope the seller doesn't read this.

This is a wake up call.When acting as buyers agents, we should ask the buyers if we can convey the feedback and if they" say no" do not duote the buyers. If agents have their own feedback or recommendation they can give it. If it is a comment on cosmetic work like paint, I ask the buyer what they think it will cost, and ask them if they got it for less taking it into account, would they buy it, and if they agree that is the feedback I give.Sellers are very sensitive about their decor and pets and it is difficult to give them feedback criticizing either. But they have to be told the truth if we want to sell the house.

Gita I always explain to my sellers at the listing presentation that thery can expect honest feedback from me and if we do hear the same objections a few times then that will be an objection we need to address. I guess we need to come up with something similar to tell our buyers when we are explaining agency and the way we work. Thanks for the comment!

Amazing. Generic feedback for me. :)

Looking forward to when you hear the outcome.

Thanks for bringing this up.

People like to sue now days.

Doreen You are welcome..thanks for reading.

Bruce I see it happening so often now, it's sad.

Boy, that is convoluted. The agent, it might be argued, was just lowering the expectations of the seller to anticipate something less than a full price, wholly enthusiastic, offer. Like a little warning. That could have set the stage for negotiations but it all backfired. Since real estate is negotiations, it is hard to do effectively if you cannot say anything but have to stay mum.

This will be interesting to learn what the result is. Unfortunately, we live in a litgeous society. It is possible to sue anyone over anything regardless of its merit. In the end, the only person who will make out is the attorney who filed the suit. Facts that materially affect the value are disclosed. Opinions...well perhaps like noses, everyone has one and should be blown discreetly.

I thought truth was a defense....in my opinion any competent judge would throw this suit out. How do people have the time to worry about this crap? Just wondering....

George Orwell must be smiling like a cheshire cat! Lawsuits because of what someone thought! The idea that an agent cold be sued because of what a third party THOUGHT about their listing is absurd. What rabbit hole did these folks fall into?

Hi Vickie

I'm sure your getting some feedback on this. Its amazing what people sue over. I guess we need to be careful about giving any feedback espiecally if there is a posibility of buyers and sellers getting upset even though its words from their month. I always ask the buyers for feedback and inform them that the seller through the listing agents would like some feedback and that I would be calling them. If they say don't contact the listing agent then I won't.

I still don't think this is considerred as disclosing sensitive information since when the comments were made, the buyer didn't have the intention to buy. The agent shall not disclose such info if knowing the buyer would like to put down an offer.. A fine line to draw... But we ask for feedback all the time.. so how should we handle it now?

It is amazing what people will sue over these days. We have agents asking about feedback the minute you drive away from the house. What help are you to these agents if you just sugar coat everything?

The purpose of feedback is to help put the house in a more "saleable" position. Guess I'll just go with "It just didn't fit my clients needs." The other agents will be annoyed but . . .

Steven convoluted is right!

Allison..we are betting the E & O pays out before it gets to court.

Peggy I guess the buyer's attorney agrees and feels his clients position was compromised, either that or he doesn't care cuz he is geting paid by the hour.

Cheryl, I think that's the lesson we are all learning here!

Patrick the hole that is owned by the attornies!

Christine..that's my concern and I am hoping to get some good legal advise or watch this for the outcome, cuz I don't believe in sugar coating.

Sandra I'm seriously thinking about either having my agents get authorization in writing, maybe incorporated into their BA agreement or a separate form. or just nixing feedback all together and telling the agents I'm sorry I represent the Buyers and their information is confidential.

Noname I'm glad I'm not the only one with blonde moments!

i agree, bottom line is that the agent did, in fact, cost the buyer money.

As Shakespeare said in Henry VI "The first thing we do, let's kill all of the lawyers". As that is impractical due to the sheer glut of lawyers, why not try this. Make a list of all of the positive features of the house you are listing and another list of all of the negatives. Get your seller to whittle the negative list down as much as possible. Then you won't need as much feedback. When the seller wants to know why their house isn't selling, all you have to do is look at your list. You can then decide if you want to further reduce your list or your price.

Vicki,

I hope that after a few weeks tempers cool and the lawsuit is dropped. If that doesn't happen, then the presiding judge should do it. No wonder our court system is overloaded.

John Thanks!

Susan a Smart man tha Shakespere was.

Esko I really think this case is going to change a fewe things in our industry..at least here in my back yard it will!

OMG! feed back is a big issue in my market and I'm always careful about what I give for feedback...but this is extreme! please keep us posted on this and congrats on you first featured post.

These kinds of posts make me wonder if selling real estate is really worth it. We can't even be honest with feedback???? Ridiculous in my opinion but I will certainly be careful in the future however. Isn't feedback a way to inform seller's of what buyers are thinking and why their homes is not selling. I've gotten really honest feedback and I sugar coat it but then I think why am I doing this? Am I hurting my Seller. I guess you just can't win. Who has the answer on this one?

Thanks Monika! I will keep you posted.

Judy Pretty soon we will only be able to point and smile. I'd love to know what some of the other Broker Owners are going to be doing in their offices! I guess the outcome will set our answers. For now I'm counseling my agents to hold off with feedback until our office meeting so we can talk about this.

I just can't figure out why the buyers aren't also suing the home inspector for not recommending a color change in the report. And people say this isn't a litigious country!

LOLing at Laurie's first comment.

I always give honest and sometimes brutal feedback that is MY opinion. Last I checked they can't sue me for my own opinion!

People will sue for anything thease days

David Be careful there! I've actually seen color on a report!

Jennifer I'm just like you girlfriend! But the last thing I want is someone to hold my commission or any of my agent's and a fight in court. Guess I'm going to have to be less bold. THIS SUCKS!

Jim..Thanks

When representing buyers and providing feedback, I try to make it clear that the feedback is coming from me as an agent, not from my clients.

I always provide feedback if asked. I'm appalled by how many people simply refuse to return phone calls or answer emails regarding feedback. If you don't want to provide feedback because you are worried that you might say something you shouldn't, then you should still respond to the email or phone call and let the selling agent know that you are not ignoring the request or being rude, but that it is your policy not to provide feedback. It is just good business to remember that part of our job is to maintain and promote good working relationships with cooperating agents around town! Let's be polite & remember our manners!

As for my sellers, I know that they really want to hear how well their home shows. They get so annoyed when agents don't provide feedback. From a seller perspective, they simply think those agents are lazy and rude!

Kelly In this case I think they would still have countered with a full price offer wether it was the agent or the Buyer. I think the Sellers agent could have softened the blow, as should have the Buyers agent. It is the agent that is getting sued, so I think in the future you and I could face the same problems. If we say the wrong thing we might be to blame. I think this is all wrong and messed up!

JUN

2007

Great Post!!! Something to keep in the back of our minds.

Diane I've been very careful of what I am saying to Selling agents these past few days!! Thanks for the comment,

Yikes, I was showing all day Monday and again today and have started getting the feedback calls! I think I'll respond via email so at least I can have a written record of what I did or didn't say.

I can't wait to see how this lawsuit pans out. Thanks again for sharing.

Kelly I'd be more cautious about putting anything in writing! At least one can plead hearsay if we call and say we were misinterpreted.

Wow, this is very interesting. I always tell my buyers that the seller will want feedback from our showing, and I ask them what they want me to say in that feedback. In effect, they are aware that I will be passing this information along, but I don't have anything in writing from them. I'll be keeping my eye on how this pans out!

Thanks for commenting Jeannie! I think you are one of the few I heard of that actually discusses this with your client. Good job!

Honestly, I think this is crazy. I tell my clients I will give them honest feedback from the buyers agents. I tell them word for word. I also give my honest opinion on homes I show. If someone wants to go after me for that then go at it! We are so sue happy around here, it is really too bad...

Brandy Yes it is sad. I guess we will all be choosing our words more carefully. Thanks for posting!

JUN

2007

Liked the post. I agree with the buyers. The comments are very interesting. Representing your client is more important than accommodating a fellow agent. Feedback is really not what it used to be when we all represented sellers.

Ardell I too think the buyers had a right to be upset. But would have never of given it much thought until now. It's our jobs to protect our clients! Thank you for commenting.

After I was feedback stalked six months ago, I quit playing that game. I pondered many reasons why I shouldn't and agency relationship was up there on my list.

With the current pressure from sellers we receive, it is no wonder why agents are doing this so much and why sellers get all bent out of shape.

Renee Good point! I just hate getting feedback requests 4 times in 2 days! And even worse now they are calling me cell phone. I am almost tempted to change my message, And if you are an agent looking for feedback no return calls will be made unless the request is left at my office. Thanks for commenting!

JUN

2007

Vicki,

I had sellers tear up a deed and walk out of the closing after all the papers were signed because the buyer ask to get her carpet man into measure the living room for new carpet, saying they couldn't live with the lime green shag!

When I moved from Michigan where we closed with everyone in the same room at the same time, I discovered out west they close in escrow and often the buyers and sellers never meet. Escrow is the most civilized improvement in transferring real estate since we stopped shooting the Indians for it.

As great as escrow closing are the same people transfer possession at recording, and that's pure insanity!

I was the selling broker on the first escrow closing in Kalamazoo, 30 years ago last September. Prudential charged me $5.0 to do what they called a "guaranteed closing", the seller a local pastor faked recites for two years taxes and it didn't come out for another year. That $5.00 saved me over $5,000.00 in stopping the City of Portage from taking the buyers home. I love escrow!

Bill

William J Archambault Jr

The Real Estate Investment Institute

http://www.reii.org

Wow William I can't imagine a closing being killed over a comment about not liking the carpet! Did the buyer sue for performance? And a local Pastor faking receipts? There are a lot of crooked peeps put there!

No, they didn't sue. I sold them a different house the next day.

I also sold the house again, but I'd warned the buyers what not to say, before closing. I sold that house 5 or 6 times over 10 years.

I did find out the husband's reason for selling was to get rid of the lime green shag carpet and the dish water blond.

There is a lot more to the story about that pastor, involving him with an ax the buyers, the police, and me. Over the years I've done 8 deals with pastors, all of them horror stories! In 7 cases the pastors thought they were above the law and the contracts they signed. In the last case my partner and I took a church as down payment on a building we were selling. We'd given the church 6 weeks so they could get the new building ready, they needed an extra 6 weeks, so I agreed to it for free, our contractor could not start on the building for two months, so it didn't hurt us. My partner came home from London two weeks early, but didn't tell anyone, He did run into our contractor at a gas station. It seems the contractor had a job cancel so my partner said he could start on our project, all without calling me. It was early Sunday morning when the pastor called me, talk about hell and brimstone! I didn't think pastors knew those words. I ended up arranging a hall for them on a Sunday morning from 200 miles away. We ended up paying for 6 Sundays. It was nasty!

Bill

Wow I will be sure and stay away from Pastors! Love the comment about the dishwater blonde!

Viki - Just stopped back for anothe look at all the comments - Great post - I've passed it along to many of my associates and my broker.

Thank you Judy! I'm still waiting for some attorney (mine included) to let us know their thoughts! For now my office has been put on alret to choose their words carefully.

JUN

2007

Vicki,

Sorry about the blond remark, but there were 160 some comments between your photo and my remark.

The problem is I'm on the triple "E" wingtip diet. I lose weight by keeping my foot in my mouth.

Bill

William Triple E..wow you have big feet..with those I'm sure you will lose a lot! :)

Wow, I can see how angry both parties can get over "comments". I found before that I would never knock a home, no matter how 'tacky' just in case the buyer did want to come back and buy it. The Agent's comments and use of the word 'tacky' seemed innocent enough, if she thought the buyer was not going to return and buy the house.

However, it may have been a good negotiating strategy to soften up the seller, for a price reduction or a decorating credit for her buyer clients. That would be my defense. Maybe the listing agent was stupid for repeating the word 'tacky' to the sellers.

I always hope the feedback I give will be helpful. If I can word, phrase, withhold or structure that feedback to for my buyer's benefit, I will. If my buyer is definately not interested, I'll try to provide constructive criticism to help the seller and seller's agent. I also agree that ANY feedback could be detrimental to the negotiating. Our jobs are to keep personalities, and personal property (including decor) out of the selling of the real property.

Looks like the Seller's Attorney is the one that passed on confidential information from his seller client. Actually you don't even know if his statement was the REAL reason they countered full price. There may have been other reasons, not disclosed by or even known by the Attorney. Maybe the Listing Agent was inexperienced and couldn't convince the Seller to put aside the comments and negotiate in "good faith".

I also counsel sellers to INSTRUCT their attorneys how they want the transaction to go. The Seller should be in charge. If the Buyers found an "out" at the settlement, the Seller's attorney would have been the cause. My guess he was not a "Real Estate Attorney". A good Real Estate Attorney would know to NEVER say something like that.

I counsel sellers at settlement to NEVER bring up anything negative about the house, neighbors, neighborhood, how much interest the buyer is paying, the price he is paying or ANYTHING.

If I were the Agent, I would have quickly made a joke of the Attorney's comment and laughed it off, to diffuse any ill will. The Buyer's could just as easily found reasons to sue the seller AFTER the closing, all due to the Attorney's comments.

But there IS a lesson here in keeping confidential information, confidential. Breach of fiduciary is a serious allegation. Judges already think we make too much money.

The issue will be that the Seller's side heard comments probably NOT specifically authorized by the Buyer-client.

We should think about addressing getting permission even verbal permission from the buyer to give feedback you as their Agent deem appropriate.

I don't think this will go to trial. But the Agent will pay a penalty. I once heard it said that people often do not sue for actual damages, many times it is just to get even, or revenge or to teach a lesson. There may be some buyer's remorse lingering here. The buyer's were made to feel stupid at closing, and now want retribution.

WATCH YOUR WORDS!

Well that was a fantastic response. I wish I could give you a big thanks..but you have no name!

This comment is priceless! "Our jobs are to keep personalities, and personal property (including decor) out of the selling of the real property."

My name was erased because I had to re-enter the graphic anti-spam. I'm glad you found the response useful. GREAT topic and I'll review my words carefuly from here on.

Walter Crane, RE/MAX of Cherry Hill, NJ

Thanks for stepping up Walt! Nice to meet you.

JUN

2007

What an interesting Blog. Yes, I want to toss my 2 cent opinion in this mix. We had a buyer that I knew was going to be a problem from the get go. There was no way they were going to buy this house. We built 2 homes (one we happily live in and love).

During construction, we had every neighbor try to get their hands into our pockets. Next door, the folks were ripping out the surveyer stakes 5 times and finally they tried to pull out the monument marker out of the sidewalk. We werre threatened with a lawsuit and they tried to shut down the project every day and became a nuisense with the City. We couldn't break ground and had to pay 4 times to have the surveyer restake. I finally called the police and they were almost arrested after their cussing rage at the police. They finally stopped. Turned out they were in forclosure and were desperatly trying to steal from others.

The neighbor above wanted us to build them a fence on their cliffside home because their baby was walking and they feared she would fall off their deck. They were having a tough time selling their home 1960 teardown and someone suggested they try to remedy the cliff. They bought this house after the baby was born, so no surprise about a cliff.

The neighbor tenant above wanted us to buy her a air purification system because we were causing dust and she was getting sick. Turned out the foundation was leaking and until the owner put in drains and fired the water sepage...

Not over yet. The College professor up the srtreet was supposed to watch the other house next door for his out of state FIL. He not only came by daily telling the contractor how to build a house, but also stopped the project trying to say we were at fault for his FIL's house slipping problems and pointing at a tree that they had braced to keep from breaking the hill down. TG I had dated pictures before we ever brought the bare property. The lyin fool already had that tree braced years before we broke ground! He was going throgh a divorce and wanted us to pay for that I guess too!

We sold the house next door, then.... one last bit of fun happened. We got a lo ball offer, 40K below the house next door that was in escrow with an escrow accepted at the first offer. The buyers walked through and placed (tacky) post it notes on every wall of the house with paint colors (the walls were new construction, so it was nuetral). Wanted us to revove the siding and stucco the entire house along with many thousands of upgrades.Their Agent joked about the wife being a prenent Atty. I thought it was strange that a woman buying her first home for a new baby would have pages of requests nearing possibly 100K in upgrades with a below asking price offer. I knew something was cooking. Their agent called me and asked if they could have a copy of the Contract between Seller and Contractor. I told her that the contract has nothing to do with their purchase, why would they want that? Their Agent replied "They want to sue the Contractor!" I of course said No and the Agent went on, "They don't want to sue you! They want to buy the house and sue the Contractor!" We countered with the full price. Of course they didn't want to actually pay for the house.

All the old neighbors moved and we are very happy with the siding and all.

The moral of the story here is there are people who want to sue. In this case, I guess they wanted to get out of paying the legal fees too! We would have had to get locked up in a lawsuit or settle? I'm surprised they didn't put in the offer that we were suppossed to raise their baby too!

PS:I had fun taking the fifty plus post-it notes off the wall.

No surprise here! The buyers agent is not supposed to give feedback. They represent the buyer only. If their agent should say they liked it, it means they are willing to pay full price, is the agent says they did not like it, they also gave away any bargaining position! This was a big topic when buyer agency first came out. Feedback only worked under sub-agency when everyone represented the seller. It has not been the case for over 10 years. Now take it one step further. Someone emails you and asks you for feedback in writingg! Do you give it and leave a paper trail?

Terri Wow does that all sound messy. A buyer actually posted their colors BEFORE the offer was accepted? I'd be making that Realtor come remove them. You are right about the sue happy people..they seem to be showing up more often.

Vicki,

I learned a lesson to never react. Keep good notes, good digital pictures and stay professional no matter what. I remained calm cool and collected throughout. I didn't want the prospective buyers to have another reason to sue! "They took my post it notes! waaa waaaaa ;-)

The couple that wanted a fence? I had already called the City and regarding protecting anyone from falling onto the property below and it was their responsibility and Ordinance of Law to protect their property. If I put a fence up, the City would not issue the COO until I tore it down.I had called a child proofing company to child-proof my home for our grandson and when I offered that information, they didn't want to have anything to do with it. Then he told me they were trying to sell their cliffside home and buyers didn't like their hanging deck. Sheesh....

Jim After hearing about this lawsuit I have counceled my agents not to be putting anything in writing..if someone wants to know why you aren't filling out their feedback request forms..tell them to come read the posts here.

Off subject, but now we have the best neighbors all around. The teardown is rebuilt by the new owners and the Man who purchased the house we built next door loves his house and we are great friends. Life is good in Dana Point. None of our neighbors are even named Sue!

Good Idea Vicki.

I run everything I put in writing to a client before my DM for review before sending. It's terrible that we all have to be this way. I won't even deal with Family Members with money problems and any history of law suits.

Well time for me to get to bed. Busy week ahead!

I had a situation once where my Buyer client was mad at the Seller for various reasons and I knew that it wasn't in the best interest of my Buyer client to tell the other side the bad feelings-- because all it would accomplish would be alienating the Sellers and causing the Sellers to be even more uncooperative than they already were. Often clients just want to let off steam to someone and sometimes that someone should be a their Realtor-- not the other side. As we all know people say things they don't mean and they regret it later so I try to look at everything level-headed, even if I'm frustrated too.

Thanks Terri Sweet dreams!

Kelly I try my best too, even more so now that I'm Broker Owner. It's a hard pill for me to swallow because I have a very strong D type personality and I usually tell it like it is. We all have to remember, not only does it help keep us out of court, it protects out bottom line also.

JUN

2007

That is insane!!!!!

QUOTE> Looks like the Seller's Attorney is the one that passed on confidential information from his seller client. Actually you don't even know if his statement was the REAL reason they countered full price. There may have been other reasons, not disclosed by or even known by the Attorney. Maybe the Listing Agent was inexperienced and couldn't convince the Seller to put aside the comments and negotiate in "good faith".

I have to say that I agree 100% here about the Seller's Attorney. Someone let the cat out of the bag and now there is a huge mess that should not be. The sellers have a right to know what the buyers thought of their home. If you are going to let people into your home, you should have the right to know the result of the showing!!

welcome to america. our courts are filled withworthless lawsuits.

please remember this situation the next time you see a blog where a listing agent is demanding that a loan officer provide info about the buyer.

Maureen My emotions are mixed on this subject as well. Representing a lot of sellers, I do my best to get them some honest feedback, but now I am changing my thinking. If I'm out with a Buyer and he is my CLIENT then I do have an obligation to protect their information and their comments. I'm waiting to see what happens with the lawsuit and being very careful until then.

Bottom line, we can do everything humanly possible to stay on the right side of the fence, but when it comes to a lawsuit, I have seen too often every name even remotely associated with a deal will be dragged through the mud when an unscrupulous lawsuit is at hand. Sometimes it isn't the deal at all. It becomes "Get money wherever you can get it."

When I was in LA (rent control)working for a client in adding value to his properties. We worked on the construction end. Some tenants would always be sniffing for a business card. I didn't carry one. There's a tip for you!

please forgive my shameless plug... I sell E&O

lol, anyone see the HGTV show "Sell this house"? Don't they let the sellers see before and after video of buyer walk thru's complete with spontanious comments? Yikes!

off to make a living...

Great post Jay...so legally what is it that us Realtors can ask a lender about a buyer we do not represent? I am sooo tired of those generic approval letters that arent worth the paper they are written on. What would you suggest?

Wow Terri..when did this show air? I could imagine it would eb a lot worse if they got to actaually hear the buyers saying it! They might have doubled the asking price!

JUN

2007

Just one thing. Doesn't the Seller's attorney work for the SELLER???? This sounds like total b.s. to me.

People need to get more realistic about Issues. Feedback is really Not nessacerry. If the Buyers are interested within a day or 2 there will probably be an offer if they like the house.

It doesn't matter if there was a BA Agreement or not. Confidentiality exists the minute an agency relationship is formed - expressed or implied. Maybe the best way to handle this is to let your buyers know up front that you will be asked for feedback and you will be honest unless your buyer tells you otherwise. I don't think that they will win this suit, because they paid asking price of their own free will and the seller has the right to accept nothing less than asking.

I'd find another real estate attorney. There was no reason for the lawyer to go there!

The sellers should not have been so sensitive and stubborn about having a tacky colored home, that's all just ridiculous!

For me, the whole idea of getting feedback for my sellers is not to try and figure out if there's an offer coming in or pressure any buyers into making an offer. I like for my sellers to see real comments from real consumers, to show them what we might need to improve on in their home. Hearing it from multiple consumers, rather than just from me, their agent, validates that an issue really exists that may be holding up the sale of their home. It's simply a tool to help us improve on marketing their home. Nothing more and nothing less.

Joe I agree..it will be interesting to see how this all truns out. But the Realtor didn't even get their commission check.

Good comment Lisa I am awaiting my attorneys inout to all this and to see if maybe we need a short feedback disclosure form signed. More paper work..AAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!

Ryan I too believe in getting and giving HONEST feedback so the sellers realize what needs to change. It doesn't seem that tool is going to be so simle anymore. At least here,

Beverly I guess even attornies have lose lips....don't you wonder if that was on purpose?

Comments:

You asked for opinions regarding the story of "Tacky". Please do not sue me!! TRUST in my opinion among agents would be something we all deserve from each other. However, our first priority is toward our client and we must protect them ie. an atty. would with privileged information. So, even if we think and agree with the other agent we must control our emotions and opinions and keep it to ourselves. And, hindsite is alway better! It certainly reminds me of what I should be aware of and curb my mouth as well. The remark seems sooo innocent and totally got so out of hand. How sad for everyone involved. I am very glad you shared this information with other agents as it is an excellent lesson and reminder of how a small comment to us may be so insulting and dangerous and become a lawsuit. WOW!!! It would almost make me want to go into another profession! Hope the agent is ok and pass on my deepest concern for her or him. Sincerely, Madeleine Costello, Rubloff Residential Properties.

Madeleine I think we all forget about our priorities and responosibilities to our Buyer clients, especially in something as innocent as giving feedback. It's suits like these that bring us great reminders! Thanks for commenting! Good post!

That is crazy! I'm shocked.

Roxy Kazemzadeh
Rubloff Residential Properties
www.RoxyChicagoRealtor.com

In my opinion, too many agents needlessly open their mouths, just to here their own voices. I've heard arrogant comments voiced regarding architectural and decorating as if it were they the agent and not the perspective buyer's opinion that mattered the most.

It may very well have been the agent that decided to embellish the color comment by injecting the word "tacky" when the buyers might have just simply stated that they didn't like the colors. It wouldn't surprise me.

I think to some extent it depends on which side of the transaction you are on. If you are representing the seller, especially if you KNOW the seller needs to make an important change, usually price but also maybe something like pet or cigarette odor, curb appeal problem, etc. it is very important to get that feedback and pass it on to the seller. Many times the best hope we have of having sellers make necessary changes is by passing along feedback, especially if its the same thing coming up over and over (which would not likely be with something as subjective as "tacky colors"). On the other hand, if you are representing the buyer, you definitely have to operate with greater caution, even if the buyers flat out say they are NOT INTERESTED in the property. As we all know buyers frequently change their minds so until they make an offer on another property there is always the chance they might come back to the previous one, especially if their only issue was something as simple as "tacky colors". The Buyers agent could definitely have been more PC in relaying that message, no matter what his/her clients ended up doing. And the sellers agent could have passed the feedback along without identifying the people who made it, which is really irrelevant, if it's just the feedback that you're after. In all honesty I think in this case both agents are at fault for repeating the comment verbatim... what was the point? I would hate to see all honest feedback go away because of something like this, as it can be a very important and necessary tool at times. You just need to use common sense! PS. IF ANYONE SHOULD BE SUED IT SHOULD BE THE SELLERS LAWYER!

Wow!!!!!!!

I am guessing that the agent thought from one agent to another she could be honest about the feedback. Well, this shows you that you can't. As an agent myself I have standard responses for all questions. When I am asked to give feedback about a property I know my clients may not have liked I tell the agent simply "My clients have not made any decisions at this time and that right now they will continue looking" however, if the property is still availble, I will let you know if they desire a second look". I know this means NOTHING for the listing agent but at least I AM PROTECTED!!!!

Thanks Roxy!

Noname one..I'm shocked the Sellers lawyer didn't..but it's only just begun.

Noname Two I like your verbage! Good thinking.

It's really annoying when a listing agent calls me asking for feedback. If you haven't heard from me in the next 24 hours, that means my clients did not like the house. And I, as an realtor, should know what's wrong with the house (colors, space, updates needed, etc). I don't need another agent to tell me that. So, when somebody calls me asking for feedback, I just say "It's not what my clients are looking for". I never ask for feedback either....

I hear you Ruben but don't your sellers ask you for feedback?

This just shows that as a Real Estate agent we must be always be professional while doing business, everybody we deal with is a potential lawsuit.

John A great lesson to be learned by all! Thanks for the post!

I once had a similiar situation, where my buyers made a comment about how dark the room was and I had said what we all say, "You can always paint the room another color" and the sellers heard me say that to my buyers. So when the listing agent called me for feedback, she scolded me and said " that I should not have said anything negative in front of her sellers about their home and further more she was going to report me to IDFPR". For what ? I don't know. But, I do belive that the buyer's agent in the lawsuit should not have said "tacky colors" . The color of a room can be changed.

THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION. I THINK FROM NOW ON I WILL LET MY CLIENTS KNOW THERE IS A FEED BACK FORM AND ASK WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO SAY. THE AGENT COULD HAVE JUST TOLD THE OTHER AGENT THAT HER CLIENTS WAS NOT HAPPY WITH THE PAINT. NOTHING ELSE WAS NEEDED. FEED BACK IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT HELPS US TELL OUR CLIENTS WHAT TO CHANGE TO GET A BETTER PRICE OR LOWER THE PRICE.

Thanks Maria! Yes,one thing I learned from this is that we should choose our words carefully.

I've been asked to give feedback everytime I show a property. I've always told my buyers that you can always paint, so overall, what do you think of the place? If they still come back with the same response as "tacky", I revise my clients comment to say to the listing agent, "the buyer was looking for a dining room and this house doesn't have it, but haven't ruled this place out yet. If we decide to take a second look, I will definately call you". Or another one I've used was "they liked the place, but we have a few more to see before we make a decision, they just started to look and they want to make sure they see a few more places".

Overall, in my opinion, too many people opened their mouths to throw digs, and we are supposed to be professional even if the client isn't. It's ok to joke around "off the record" but if I were the listing agent, I don't know if I would want to hurt my clients feelings and repeat what the buyers agent said, but I would make a suggestion to my client to paint the place a neutral color and we would have more showings since it would be "freshly painted", and this way the buyer can see a fresh canvas to work with.

It's also hard if the seller doesn't want to do anything to promote the listing, and think they can sell it the way it looks, without getting a low offer.

Thanks for stopping by and commenting Jeannine. You make some good points.

JUN

2007

Isn't this great? Another tool that we so desperately need in this awful market is being taken away from us because some idiot seller's feeling were hurt. Poor baby. If we can't get good feedback, the sellers will never sell their homes.

Go Joan! Isn't this sad?

I have a slightly different opinion than others. Since we assume the feedback comment was given honestly (Code of Ethics right?) by buyers agent & relayed honestly by sellers agent, no confidentiality has been breached (ie. how high buyers would go in price for instance) with what is clearly a "feedback" comment. It is the sellers perogative to turn down offers or counter as they wish, despite our professionalism & best efforts as agents. Since the agents eventually entered into a contract, the sellers agent was then keeping the information confidential that her sellers would not come down in price because of the prior "tacky colors" feedback comment. Everything still legal. Now comes the fine line. The sellers agent may have disclosed the information about price negotiation to the attorney in the transaction....or perhaps the sellers did. We hope that permission was given to disclose this information at that time (& that it was not given during negotiations). In essence, the lawsuit will go nowhere. If anyone is found to be at fault I would hazard a guess that it would be the seller's agent for not disclosing DURING THE CONTRACT NEGOTIATION why her sellers would not come down in price. Disclosure is the best answer early on. At that point, the buyers may have fired their agent, but at least he/she wouldn't be facing fines & possible license suspension. Or perhaps the buyers, not having as much invested at the time, would just move on to another property. Would I have relayed the "tacky colors" comment as feedback? Probably not. But we have to remember that everyone does not work the same way. Ultimately, in my opinion, the buyers agent is the least at fault as he/she was honest from the beginning & had NO IDEA that the feedback comment made was affecting negotiation. Had he/she known, than we have to give our fellow agent the benefit of the doubt that this would have been disclosed during negotiation. So again, if anyone is at fault, it lies with sellers agent for not continuing the honest communication during contract negotiation. And why is the buyers agent not being paid???? Did the buyers NOT close on the property? If the property closed there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON that everyone should not be paid.

This is one reason why many agents including myself have stopped giving feedbacks in writting or verbally, first of all the listing agents do tend to be pushy and offensive, atleast 95% of the time. You would not believe some of the conversations I've had during feedback calls. In the back of my mind im always thinking but dont say that "if you don't have an offer in your hands what does that tell you?" but I bite my lip. Also in a time of having to show our buyers three times more properties now than in the past , the whole feedback system is becoming a nuisance. So I think from now on will say I have stopped giving feedback because of this pending lawsuit. :)

The answer is simple...don't leave feedback. It is not your responsibilty to help the listing agent sell their listings. That might sound rude, but how else are you going to cover your end in case this happens to you.

Denise, Yes your opinion is a little different and you raise a good issue, but I guess my question to you is don't you agree that your buyer's comments are confidential? And no, it is my understanding that the buyers agent's commission was witheld. I had this happen recently myself. At the closing table I got told another agent said they had procurring cause, so CB never paid out. I'm in litigation with them right now. Thanks for sharing!

Ouch Don! As a listing agent that hurts! But I am beginning to think you are right.

Vicki - No, I do not agree that a buyer's "feedback comments" are confidential. Some buyers will give that "feedback" while standing in the property! (As a matter of fact I often instruct new buyers to make no comments while visiting property...unless they have questions). I'm willing to bet that when that is established (the true definition of "feedback") the case will go nowhere. If I am asked for feedback from a listing agent, I provide it honestly as I remember it or call back the buyer to clarify. But I do not believe that "feedback comments" fall under confidentiality. I understand that ignorance is not an exuse in our field, but I would not have thought twice about giving the feedback on a listing as my buyers saw it! Although,pardon the pun, a bit more TACK-fully!:) And in terms of your withheld commission (pardon my French)...THAT SUCKS!

I'm not too worried about this. This is the first case in 18 years I've been in the business that I heard of. Besides, I think the buyer will lose. A seller is only obligated to sell according to the terms of their listing agreement WHICH IS ASKING PRICE! I hope the tacky buyers spend a ton of their tacky $$ to be told case dismissed, get the hell out of here. Let's hope Judge Judy gets the case.

Vicky,

With respect to all the good and hardworking agents, our role is to understand our clients needs and their

personality from time we first meet them, and keeping the deals together funnels down to our ability in

communicating information in an honest and eloquent manner to keep the parties working with each other

in a smooth transition, while the agents are making sure that their clients are getting the best service for

trusting them in handling one of their biggest investments.

I think that agents should work and communicate with each other in a constructive manner, and choosing

the right words is as important in our deals as it is in our presentations and advertisements...

Denise I love the way you speak your mind! I too tell it like it is, but I guess I will have to choose my words more carefully in the future. I was told earlier that a similar case was heard here in Illinois 4 years ago and the buyers agent LOST. I'm trying to find out more info on that case. And SUCKS is an understatement of how I really feel about having to fight for my commissions on a difficult deal! Thanks again!

Go Nancy! It really does sound like a waste of time doesn't it?

BULLSHEET! That pretty much sums it up for me.

We all have clients that can be alittle edgey at times. The best way is to go the way of B & W, no feedback unless a contract is on its way. If youn must goive feedback, keep it simple, i.e. the house showed well; My clients are still looking; My clients have just started looking.... Keep it simple and on point. Got to run

JUN

2007

Hi Vicki,

It's too bad the feedback was used in a negative way. It might be a good idea for listing agents to leave feedback request forms inside the seller's homes, if ok with the seller of course, for the buyers comments. Feedback is supposed to be a useful tool for the seller, if something can be changed to make the home more appealing in the buyers eyes, or to set the price a little lower if necessary, for a more expeditious sale.

We all should be working together for the common goal - to get the home sold and find acceptable housing for the buyer.

I did see that once..an agent had about 10 bottles of wine and a sign that said if you would please share your feedback, I'll share my wine! It was cute! ANd it worked!

JUN

2007

Assaad lol at Judge Judy

"The case of the tacky lawsuit"

Isn't one of the oldest negociating tactics something like: if you're selling "it's a silk purse" and buying "it's a sow's ear" ?

Wow, I can't even belive that an attorney would take a case like this. Why didn't the buyer's agent request an allowance for paint? I guess this is what happens when people get emotionally attached to their house.

crazy stuff and what a waste of time and energy.

Terri Love the analagy!

Kate When he gave the original feedback they were not interested in buying the house. I agree with your cmment about waste! But hopefully we all learned something here. Thanks for sharing!

JUN

2007

It seems to me that this agent got herself in trouble because she didn't see the need for common respect. If you run your business without giving everyone involved (your personal client or anothers) respect, sooner or later trouble will come your way. Respect and common courtesy would have had this agent remembering that you never want to burn bridges with anyone even if they don't seem to be serving your purposes right now (providing the home that your buyer will buy that will bring you a commission check) but instead you want to give people the kind of consideration and thoughtfulness they deserve. This buyers agent could have passed on the "feedback" in a way that was not so personal and insulting to the seller; " The home showed nicely, they liked the size of the rooms and the landscaping was nice too but the colors didn't really fit their style and the work to change all the paint was more work than they really wanted to do." Remember "a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down" If the colors were really "Tacky" a softer approach might even have helped the listing agent have the opportunity to ask questions about the colors to her sellers and open the subject of possibly changing them which might have worked out for both parties. And what was the Listing Agent thinking? to pass on this feedback word for word. I think both of these agents need some training in interpersonal skills.

Very well put Liz! "a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down" is great advise! I hope everyone following this reads your comments. Thanks for posting!

JUN

2007

Vic, any update on this issue?

JUL

2007

Jerry, I heard that it isn't looking good. I guess there was a similar case heard here 4 years ago and the Buyers Agent lost that suit, so they are thinking the results might end up being the same and the agent lost his total commission. But this is all hear say and you never know..maybe the results will be different.

JUL

2007

Thank God Florida is a Transaction Broker state. What's the point of getting feedback, if you can't get the honest truth? Maybe the colors really were horrendous and the sellers needed to change them, to sell their house. Of course, if I were the listing agent, I would have just said the colors didn't match the buyers decor, or something along those lines. I certainly wouldn't have told my seller that the buyer thought their colors were "tacky". But still, why bother with feedback if they don't really want it? Everyone has an opinion.

JUL

2007

Wow! Great post and very interesting and scary too. I would not have said anything that harsh, possibly that buyers like more neutral colors or something. I once sold a house that I called the Easter house, as it had different color in every room, all in pastel greens, pinks, blues etc. I told them "you can always paint if the colors don't suit you", well, my buyer loved it. They said it was painted just for them! I was absolutely shocked.

AUG

2007

Thanks Lisa. As much as I'd like to believe that choosing better words would have avoided this issue, I still think these are probably the kind of sellers that take everything to heart, no matter how it was worded.

AUG

2007

Go ahead and sue. I think it would be a waste of time for everyone.
Some might think passing the comment on would help the issue of price.
Very subjective. And that was the Realtor they chose to represent them.
Obviously can't know for sure which way the seller would react...

I can say one thing - "tact" is important!

IT's a sad statement--what a sue happy world we live in when you cannot state a fact without worrying about it coming back to bite you. Buyer's agent stated what the buyer thought--which was what was requested. I"m sure she never thought it could hurt the buyer. We do that all the time!

From now on, I think I agree that I'll give vague feedback rather than compromise my buyers' negotiating power. Or you could phrase it as if YOU said it--as in, "Buyers are still looking, but I PERSONALLY hate the house's decor." Not P.C., but not hurting the buyers either. Seller can hate the buyer's agent.

We already kill enough trees in this business, let alone thinking up a new form for "permission to disclose what I honestly thought about the property."

AUG

2007

Erica, there are times where we have to rethink what we say before we say it. I'm the worst. If you want an honest opinion, ask Terri. Since I know that about myself, I think about what I say before I say it in a business setting. We all work with a variety of personalities and sometimes we need to be a little less detailed while still being affective. There have been times dealing with property that I don't waste my time with people who just don't get it. Rather than wasting my time and energy, I have found that a nice letter from an Atty., to stop bad behavior can keep my honesty out of the equation in our sue happy world.

(See my post above)When we were building 2 homes, we had one of the neighbors pulling out property line stakes and ties- not once, but five times. We had to pay the engineer 400.00 each time to come out. Also causing delay's in the grading and starting the project. They finally were caught trying to pull out the monument markers in the sidewalk. These folks were volitile and darn right scary. Believe me, I had some honest statements to say, but used the Atty. instead. The Atty. letter did get them to stop. Later I found out that they were under foreclosure and were trying to get a lawsuit started for them to sue us for money and damages. Their behavior could have caused anyone to explode. They tried everything to shut us down. They even parked their cars in front so the guys couldn't work and refused to move and threatened "Do not damage our cars, we will sue you all". "Put a fence up, not that kind...tear the fence down now, it's scaring our little girl". The City was pulling their hair out. They were forced to move by their bank and they were gone. We weren't going to move here because of them (could you imagine?), but after they were gone and out of the country, we did. Happy ending. Good thing I kept my big mouth shut, lol. These folks had planned to scam us to save their home from the beginning.

Impressive--Your ability to keep cool saved it. I need to censor myself sometimes, and just play it cool. Too much information (whether it's the truth doesn't matter!) is dangerous too.

AUG

2007

We have to be careful how we protect our clients and their interest. I often have agents tell me that they won't give feedback if a client has some interest....other than they have some interest. I think it can put you at a disadvantage for just this reason!

Erica, our contractors put a gag order on their employees too. They were out for anybody they could get. They would demand business cards, checking licenses, you name it. The contractor who was doing the grading could have bought and sold these people, one of the largest, well actually was the largest company in our area. They treated him like he was a worthless low life. Had to bite my tongue from telling them he had a corner cliff-side home/mansion on a quadruple lot in one of the most prestigious neighborhoods in Laguna Beach and owned all the excavation equipment that every steep hillside contractor needed to use in the area. They would have probably laid down in front of his truck to get run over if they knew that!

I am so interested in finding out what happens here on the "tacky colors" I wonder if it will just get settled or if it will go to mediation?

AUG

2007

Terri Im just like you..if you want an honest opinion..just ask me. I didn't believe in sugar coating my words before this. As Erika said..you learned the ability to keep it cool and that's what I'm learning to do. Yvette, I simply say the house wasn't right for them now. I used to tell it like it is.

I like the Gag Order rule. I wonder how my agents would feel about that? I will see if I can get an update on the lawsuit. Thank you all for commenting!

This week I showed 3 houses to one couple. The really liked one

I told they agent they'd like to come back Saturday for a 2nd showing. That was all I said. Then she told me it has a contract on it with a 48-hour kick out clause (no mention of this before the showing). I told the buyers.

I told agent #2 the house was just not for them. She pushed me for better feedback. Honestly, the house is at least $40,000 over priced ($269,000 list) . I told her in a square footage analysis, the price seemed a bit high. She got miffed and hung up on me.

I told agent #3 the house was just not for them. She called and asked why not? I told her it just didn't seem like the woman's style.

NOW buyers LOVE house #1 and want to write an offer. They want to go through all 3 houses again, just to compare and line up their options in case they don't get house #1. I called agents 2 & 3 back to show...and they're miffed. Both asked if it was the same buyer. I replied YES. Both asked (very testily) why they want to go back again. I replied that they're just reviewing their options. YIKES. Now I'm afraid to say a word--good or bad--of feedback! Act like they like it, and you show your cards. Act like they DON'T like it, and if the buyer changes his mind & does come back for a 2nd showing or make an offer, the sellers are immediately put off.

What a crazy career.

SEP

2007

Erica, my thought on that is this. It's really no business of the listing agent whether it's the same buyer wanting to see the house or a different one. You have no obligation to give them that information. Your obligation is to your client and it may be best to just tell the listing agents that you're not at liberty to discuss that, you just want to show their listing. Just a thought.

You're right. I feel uncomfortable answering that because it does disclose interest. In the end, it's a small world here. We did go back to 3 houses that day. The day before we wrote an offer on house #1 and were waiting for sellers to respond. We went back through all 3 houses, and made appts. 2 of the houses are on the same block. So the non-chosen house was excited to know I'd be coming through again, and the homeowner called home seller #1 very excited to tell the woman, "Erica's coming again on a 2nd showing!" The seller #1 said "That's strange, because her buyers wrote an offer on MY house. Why would they come through YOUR house too?" That started the gossip web. Homeowner 2 called agent and asked her that question. She replied, "maybe your house is their 2nd choice and they're just making sure they keep their options open." The lady THEN called homeowner #1 and told them they'd better take my buyer's offer because her house is the backup plan. Which ironically works out for my buyer's best interest--as #1's agent just reported to me that that comment pushed her seller to AGREE to take our slightly lower offer.

Lesson learned: do what Ryan says and don't disclose it's same buyer. BUT in such a small neighborhood with busybodies, sometimes it's hard to hide it. In this case both homeowners knew each other, and both knew me. Both witnessed the buyers coming & going inside each other's houses.

Very interesting twist there Erica. It sounds like it worked out to your (and your buyers') advantage. Great job! Just goes to show you, each and every situation is different and each one warrants a different approach. Exactly what makes this business so much fun. There's always something new to learn! Thanks for sharing this story. I know I'll keep it in the back of my mind for future reference. :)

SEP

2007

Erica, that is quite a story. I've never had that happen before. Must be a small close knit community. I think it is a sorry state when we have to start lying about whether it is a second showing or not. I would be concerned that that would come back to bite us as well, and in your case since both sellers witnessed the buyers it sure would have. It has been so hard for me these past few weeks to give feedback and not be my normal self. I'm sure some of the normal Realtors that rely on my to tell them my honest thoughts have thought I lost my mind because I'm saying things, like the house just wasn't right for them. But I do understand the confidentiality issues raised here, so I guess that's going to become my norm. Thank you for sharing your story and I am glad in this case that the sellers did talk!

Vicki, yes the sellers live 2 houses apart and were FRIENDS. They commiserated often about showings, lack of offers, problems selling, etc. It was weird--I was speaking to both their agents continuously this week, and the agents kept reporting to me what their clients said. And when I said things about the houses to one agent, she'd tell her client, and the client would tell the neighbor, who would repeat it to the OTHER agent. I've never been in the middle of anything like this. Luckily I was honest with feedback and with disclosing YES it was a second showing, and they all just kept comparing notes.

One thing I learned this week was about an internet site called Showing Feedback

http://www.showingfeedback.com/

It's FREE. You sign up and monitor your listings/showings, and the free service asks the agents for feedback. You can have your seller cc'd on the replies. It seems like a good way to go to get solid feedback, in writing and a good way to avoid all the "he said she said". Yes, it's free in the basic version, and there's a charge for an ad-free version. Check it out! I'm just experimenting with it now.l

OK, I'd like to clarify, I NEVER said anyone should lie about second showings, I simply said it doesn't have to be disclosed.

I use showingfeedback for my listings and get an 80% response. It's been great because my sellers get to see for themselves what others are saying about their homes. It makes a bigger impact on them when they "hear it" straight from the buyers' agent, rather than from me. Plus it keeps me out of the middle and avoids any miscommunication in relaying the information. It's been a GREAT system for me in my market.

Ryan--I know you didn't say to lie. I just said what would have happened IF I HAD lied.

I'm new at showingfeedback.com and look forward to using it.

Erica

OCT

2007

It seems like they had a big mouth, but the lawsuit seems a bit overboard as well. Hopefully they work it out REASONABLY for all involved!

What a crazy scenario, Our call center generates a feedback form for every showing. 4 questions and a box for optional comments.

I generally do not fill the comment box in, If I do It's my feedback I enter not my buyers.

I find it very annoying to get calls on my cell asking for feedback

Ginger

OCT

2007

Any updates on this lawsuit? Quite an interesting situation and I'm interested to know the status.

OCT

2007

Ronald The Bueyrs agent lost the case and his commission. A lesson to be learned by all of us!

Ginger I agree with the annoyance of cell phone requests..ARRRRGGGHHHH! I'd be sure and write.."this is my feedback and not my clients" or something to that nature on every response.

Paul..yes read a few posts up. The buyers agent lost! OUCH

OCT

2007

The buyers agent lost...what a shame. I've kept this post alive on my homepage because I interested to see what would happen. Well, we can all use the lesson here....Feedback? Fuhgedaboudit.

Thanks Vicki!

Terri

OCT

2007

What a weird situation. Why'd the attorney have to say why the sellers countered at full asking price anyway?

Thanks Terri!

Joshua Maybe he wanted to stir the pot and upset the buyers or teach the Buyers Agent a lesson..which as you can see he did. Maybe he didn't like the other attorney or maybe he wanted to let the other attorney know he felt the Buyers Agent was in the wrong by disclosing confidential information.

Lesson learned...I am now very careful as to how I fill out those email feedback forms!

Im interested to try Showingfeedback.com

I use a free service with no ads called BuyerRemarks.com

It has worked really well for me.

I generally don't leave feedback on homes my clients are interested in. Or Ill tactfully mention a few of the reasons it doesn't fit what they are looking for and listen to see if the Listing agent will offer up some info that they shouldn't (which sadly they do 90%+ of the time)

Great Blog. Eyeopener. I guess as a buyers agent its fine to give feedback as long it is not compromising the potential position of your buyer. Because as a buyers agent the feedback you are soposed to give will better their position and not weaken it. Its called negotiating. Doesn't sound like much of a case through that can prove any damages.

FEB

2008

Putting the legal issues aside, as a home seller I would like to make a comment from the seller's point of view. I have had my house on the market for over 12 months. I have made thousands of dollars in improvements and price reductions, had the house professionally staged, and followed my agents' recommendations as far as pricing and re-pricing. In addition to my home being an investment, it has also been my nest for the past four years.

Buyer's agents and their clients seem to forget the emotions sellers go through and are quick to give flippant feedback remarks. How about this, state that your client would prefer more neutral colors. Saying the colors are tacky is a slap in the face. Who would walk into a stranger's house or even the house of a loved one and blurt that out? Saying the colors are not neutral enough would have been productive feedback, not nasty.

I can't count the number of dinners that had to be put away early and the number of times plans had to be changed at the last minute to accommodate the buyers' schedules. Often agents are either over 30 minutes late or very early and they walk right in without ringing the doorbell. Sometimes agents don't even bother to cancel a scheduled showing and never even visit the home.

Buyer's agents, even though the home seller is not your client, please treat them with the same respect you would treat your own client. Not only is it a good business practice, it is also common courtesy, something I find lacking in today's market.

This is a sue crazy society,,,,I agree susan......if the buyers were not bright enough to be tactful...the agent should gave beem

MAR

2008

We live in a very sad country.

How nice to hear from a real seller! Thank you Susan. And Sally I agree whole heartedly. We are professionals, but there are still a lot of agents that haven't had that training yet. I think every Realtor shoudl have to go through a common sense class. How to dress, how to greet people, how to speak, etc.

I haven't seen one company that teaches that yet.

Holy cow. These sellers need to get over it. We all have shown tacky houses. Now with that being said working as a buyers agent we must have there best interest in mind at all times. This goes to show why. I will remember this forever. from now on the answer will be not for them at this time. I do usually go into detail about what the buyers thougfht . If I was a seller I would want to hear the good and not so good.NO more...

MAR

2008

Thanks Sharon! I too have been saying "the house just isn't the right one for them" or "they selected another house," etc. And I don't bother answering the email feedbacks anymore..that could be even worse..they have your response in writing! Buyers Agents Beware!

MAR

2008

This is remarkable and that type of feedback occurs everyday. As the listing agent, if I'd received that kind of feedback on a listing, I would have viewed it as a buying signal and encouraged my seller to write a reverse offer that included either a paint allowance or an offer for the buyer to pick their colors.

I'm surprised the listing agent didn't get sued as well.

Great blog!

MAR

2008

Wow Amanda, a reverse offer? That's new to me! I think that is pretty clever. If you get time and haven't already done a blog on that subject, I'd love to hear how it's done. I've never heard of that before. I'm going hunting for a Reverse offer blog right now! Thanks for sharing and I look forward to reading more about it.

Vicki, I usually don't give too many details, just that the buyer is still looking, or that the house didn't meet their needs. I don't ever think I would quote a buyer in that way and say that the colors were 'tacky.' That did and would alienate them if they do decide to go back. And when I ask for feedback I use an e-mail system. I forward responses to my seller when I get them.

MAR

2008

Diane, the written email would now be written proof of you sharing your clients confidential information that can be used against you. I think we need a new disclosure for buyers asking them to sign it allowing us to give feedback to the sellers. More paperwork..AAARRGGGHHHHH. I'm just rolling mine in to my Buyers agency agreements.

JUN

2008

First of all that isn't the feedback I would ever give... One man's tacky is another man's taste.

Very simply stated! Thanks Debbie. Hung by the tongue is a lesson that a lot of agents need to learn.

JUL

2008

Neither one of those agents used good judgement. Even if my buyer told me the colours were tacky, that is not how I would deliver it to the seller or the seller's agent.

IF I were the listing agent and a buyer's agent told me her client thought the colours were tacky, I still would not deliver that to the seller exactly in those words. In fact, if the comments were about the colour only, I would immediately think the buyers liked the house, and would probably wait...

You know what they say about 'wrong colour, ugly curtains, etc'. Those comments come from someone who is already picturing themselves moving in, otherwise the colour wouldn't bother them and they probably would not have made the comment at all. (It's been proven time and time again, at least with my clients, that the more they start talking (negatively) about a home, the better the chances we'll be back there again and possibly put together an offer.)

I hope everyone comes to their senses before the home(s) are re-sold to pay legal fees.

JUL

2008

I would immediately think the buyers liked the house, and would probably wait...You know what they say about 'wrong colour, ugly curtains, etc'. Those comments come from someone who is already picturing themselves moving in, otherwise the colour wouldn't bother them and they probably would not have made the comment at all. Wow I'm impressed with the agent that wrote the last post! He or she really knows how to see the buyers signals! A good lesson for everyone!

SEP

2008

"Interesting. I've always been puzzled by the process of "feedback". I don't ask for it. I figure I should know what I need to know to list and sell. I also figure that if a buyer was interested, they'd make an offer."

I share that position. When a listing agent calls and asks for feedback, my canned response is, "If they're interested, I'm sure you see an offer. The client saw a lot of property and we didn't discuss the properties they have ruled out."

SEP

2008

Thanks San Diego! We should all adopt that canned answer. I am soooo tired of agents calling my cell phone for feedback. I so want to leave a message that says if you are an agent and requesting feedback, you will NOT get it by filling up my voice mail here!

OH my, time to keep our lips sealed....sounds like it was disclosed 'casually' or perhaps to 'help' with any negotiations. Time we watch what we say....and remember who we represent.

I agree with the last few posts, I learned long time ago, (23 years) while in real estate school 101 that buyers signals negative or possitive indicate they are interested, it is the work of the Professional Realtor to deliver the message to his/her clients in a professional manner. Clearly you should know that we are all defensive when it comes to our nest. Why use the term "tacky" when all the agent had to say was something like "the buyers prefer different colors in the house" Here you still deliver the message that the buyers objections are in the colors and perhaps at that time offer to present an incentive to promote an offer. Real Estate 101

Antonio & Alexia Cardenas, "The Realtors In Motion" www.ListedbyAntonio.com

Right Susan! It wasn't said to help negotiations, it was said because the agent thought the clients really had no interest in the house. What's that famous line? BUYERS ARE _________?

SEP

2008

Well, this is my take on the situation. The old saying "Loose lips..sink ships" comes in to play here. Whether or not the house was "tacky", should remain between the buyer's agent and their client. Feelings really come in to play when a homeowner hears derogatory comments about their "home sweet home", and the defenses can kick in. 2 things happened here....First, the buyer's agent should NOT given feedback of that nature, and secondly, the listing agent should NOT have relayed that information verbatim to their client. The listing agent could possibly make comments to their client about painting the rooms neutral, as some buyer's are more likely to like that aesthetic aspect of the home. Some people just can't see past certain things....PAINT IS PAINT!

Getting to the whole lawsuit thing, I really think that is taking IT a bit too far!!!!

The last comment was from me :)

It's nice to hear from an educated agent Antonio & Alexia! Those of us that went thru RE 101 should remember this. Those that did not..a lesson well learned here. Thanks for the reminder.

Thanks Laura! For a minute I thought I had a ghost visitor. LOL. A sue happy world we live in, but I think the buyer had grounds. We need to remember WHO we represent.

NOV

WoW.. this is totally amazing.. So who is really at fault here ? The Attorney who mad the comment at the closing table, the listing agent for sharing this with the attorney or who ?

The buyers could have made a counter offer too, but again.. they were happy with the sales price... or were they ?

I still think feedback is a vital part of showing homes and is just part of the job

Yes Roland, I think this could have all been avoided if the presentation had been delivered a little more professionally. Thanks for the comment!

AUG

It sure pays to be tactful.

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