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I, like many of you out there, have children.  Children who have been of the opinion from quite a young age that-too often for my taste-they just don't want to do certain things.   Like pick up the thousands of pairs of shoes that they leave around the house over which I undoubtedly end up tripping.  Now, it's not that they can't do such things, but for a plethora of reasons that I do not understand, they just have made up their minds that they won't.   Even when every indication is that the consequences for their inaction will be less than desirable-both to others (me) and themselves (such as being grounded until the end of time).  But it has long been my hope that a) they will grow out of it and b) that they will have children of their own who will act the same way. 

Given these hopes, you may understand my disappointment when I read a recent Time Magazine posting which noted that according to economists at the University of Chicago, up to 26 percent of U.S. homeowners who have stopped paying their mortgage have done so not because they can't do it but, in truth, because they don't want to.  Yep, go ahead and re-read the sentence.  Because they don't want to.   And that decision, it appears, is largely based on whether they owe more on their homes than they are worth.

So let me understand this. These folks are employed, have money and live in a home that they apparently thought was king-dingalicious when they bought it a few years back. But because the market slowed down (like it always does) and hasn't sped up (like it undoubtedly will) according to their timeframe, they are just going to stop making payments.  Like children, they're just NOT going to do it.

Now, let me point out the ramifications.  When a home is foreclosed, the neighborhood in which it is located almost certainly begins to feel a little bit of downward pressure-especially if it stays on the market very long.  And with each additional foreclosure, home values in the neighborhood drop accordingly.  Unsurprisingly, homeowners begin to wonder how their properties will be impacted.   If they decide to walk away, property values are going to continue their freefall.

Every day we're deluged with another story about home prices tumbling as a result of the bad loans and mortgage violations given by mortgage companies.  Whole government programs have been proposed or implemented based on what a lot of folks believe is the inability of these homeowners to make payments on those bad loans.  But  if even a tenth of these foreclosures are "strategic"-not the 26 percent figure estimated-it would seem that we all need to take another, more realistic look at how to think about and solve the problems at hand.

And in this case, I really hope that these walk-away homeowners don't have kids who act just like they do.  Now if you'll excuse me, I have shoes to trip over.

[UPDATE] Posted Part 2: Are you crazy? Stop paying your mortgage is "strategic"? Part 2

 

42 Comments on Are you crazy? Stop paying your mortgage is "strategic"?

JUL
20
2009

I am not sure how it works in the US but in Canada the lenders can forgive bankruptcy but trying to get a mortgage after a forclusure is almost impossible.

7:04pm • #1
119,486 Points

I know many folks who fell prey to a shady mortgage broker and/or appraiser and the purchase of their home was doomed from the beginning.  It's not that their property value fell dramatically, it's the appraised value was totally bogus to begin with.  I know there was a time when mortgage brokers were trained to do whatever it took to close the loan even when they KNEW the folks couldn't really afford it.  It wasn't their problem after that first payment was made.

Although I am a believer in people taking responsibility for their actions and decisions, I can see how they are not entirely at fault and yet they are bearing the entire load of the consequences of the bad deal.  I know owners who are UPSIDEDOWN in their properties by OVER $100k and they didn't do a cash out refi.  They won't be able to sell their house in 10+ years for their loan balance.

And although the bank will make you feel like it's the end of the world credit-wise if you have a foreclosure or bankruptcy on your record, that simply isn't true at all.

Having said that, I know there's probably a significant portion of people who are in fact as you describe and I completely agree with you.  Furthermore I believe it's not just with the buyers, but everyone on all levels of the complex transaction of a home sale who has this "not my problem" attitude.  It's a fine mess we are in and all parties to the transaction are a part of the cause of it.  It can only be fixed, IMO, when all parties share in the responsibility.  How that's going to happen, I don't know.

7:27pm • #2
JUL
21
2009

This scenario is happening fairly frequently around me. Owners looking around at homes they bought 3 years ago for 650K and seeing new buyers in the neighborhood paying 380K for the model they bought. Now I understand the dilemma of upside down mortgages, loss in wages, ets etc, the downfall of the economy, yes yes we all KNOW. But I agree in your pause and frustration at homeowners who have a house they want, took a risk in buying a home at a peaked market, and are just bailing out on their mortgages.

12:03am • #3

Is this strategy any less consistent with the way many Americans obtain their belongings...short sighted and greedy? 

 

We drive on bond financed highways, send our kids to bond financed schools.  We leverage our mortgage to finance 'consumer goods' or pay down high interest debt (more consumer goods).  Then, a housing boom hits, our counties roll in the dough so to speak, on wealth that is borrowed and then we pay even more taxes on an inflated hoax called the American Dream.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see why you would expect different from people who live this way.  It's our culture.

12:20am • #4
277,620 Points 8 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I have heard several people make similar comments lately. It is disturbing. We have a client recently who just decided to quit paying for his home even though nothing in his situation has changed.  Sad.

12:27am • #5
243,154 Points 25 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Strategic is putting a nice name on it.  What's strategic about ruining your credit?  Since we are talking about homeowners who are able to pay their mortgage and not homeowners who are under duress, "strategically" stop paying your payment may bite the homeowner, who is essentially playing chess with their home, in the butt.  I would think very long and hard about making that type of decision.  I know many people feel the market will not recover anytime soon, but you still need a place to live, and if it follows the market patterns of the last 100 years, it will recover. 

12:57am • #6
184,110 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog

it is also partly the media banging the drum of just walk away form your home if you think it is worth less than you owe...the talking heads need to put a sock in it... that one suzi orman gal actually told a TV audience to just put your keys in the mailbox and walk away from it if you thought your home was worth less than you paid for it... what in the world is she thinking... the media is really a very large part of the hysteria that led us to this mess....

2:43am • #7
300,559 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

I called about a loan modification. We are struggling but I manage to make payments. They can not help me until I stop making payment. That is not something I can do. I will find a way. It seems more like cheating than helping-Dinah Lee

P.S. I know there are those that had to miss payments and I want them to get help. I also wish it was not so hard for them to get assistance. It sound easy until you try it.

4:57am • #8

Hi Guys,

Maybe I can add a little to this conversation.  I am a realtor and paralegal in the East Bay CA.  I work for an Attorney Broker.  I started doing loan modifications last year before they became popular.  What I have found is that homeowners  actually are in a financial bind but dont admit it.   I had an appointment on Saturday and these homeowners are in a bid financial hardship situation.  Their income has fallen drastically and now their mortgage is approx 70% of their income.  They used to be able to afford it but now with the domino effect of the economy they cant.  

They had been advised by someone to stop paying their mortgage to get the attention of the lender.  Some people mistakenly think they cant get a modification if they are current.  Each situation is different.  But the information out there is so mixed and its hard for homeowners to get the right info. When I went out to see this family they were already in duress, as you can imaging lots of people try to be responsible.  They spend all of their savings and empty the 401k.  The people I see differ greatly, some feel bad for being in financial trouble some dont and try to take advantage.  I have had people call asking about a modification but their finances havent changed.  Personally I believe that we as realtors need to do a good job of making sure we dont put our clients into a home they cant afford and we also need to have a few loan agents we know are reputable.  I wont help a client with a loan modification if they are not truly having a financial hardship.  I enjoy helping families find solutions and finding a way to keep their home. As a professional in the Real Estate market I think we all need to really think when we are doing our job.  We are advisors, most people who are not in the field really dont know a lot of things we know.  I am here to say from what I have seen most people who stop paying their mortgage do it because either they are desperate or they have been given bad informaiton.  I think the first step should always be a loan modification if the home owner wants to keep their home.  I have seen some pretty substantial reduction of payment and principal.   When I submit a loan modification half of the time its approved on the first try.  If not I resubmit and resubmit.  We never know when the lender is going to change their program. 

 

JoAnna Jensen, Pleasanton, CA  Realtor/Paralegal, The Bayard Law Firm, Legal Realty

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JoAnna Jensen
5:48am • #9

The days of easy credit are over (I think) so a lot of these folks who cruised into these loans a couple of years ago, won't find it so easy in the new tighter credit world.

Maybe they can rent.

David

David O'Doherty
5:49am • #10
320,285 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

That number is alarming to me. My area is in great shape so I can only read about such nasty problems. But I cant say I blame someone for walking away from 100K negative equity.

6:09am • #11
611,182 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

The 26% is shocking !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REO's are soon to follow

6:49am • #12
577,780 Points 15 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Did you read Bryant Tutas's blog post on this? He asked the question whether it was a moral issue, for people to strategically default on their mortgages. It spawned a few very good blogs on the subject, plus the comments that it generated.

7:54am • #13
429,318 Points 57 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

For the ones who walk away- apartments are now doing credit checks- a foreclosure can affect your ability to secure a rental as well.  Something else to ponder.

8:13am • #14
1 Featured Post

Great post.  I actually had a client say this to me yesterday and I explained the ramifications.  He understood and changed his intent immediately.  Thanks for sharing!

CIAO from Virginia Beach, VA. Asiyah I. Ali, Realtor, Keller Williams Realty - www. AsiyahAli.com

8:22am • #15
1,063,400 Points 156 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Mark, irresponsibility can creep into a life slowly, kind of like a group mentality. Others are doing it. Why not me? With such government wasteful spending of HUGE dollars I think it has filtered down to the individual level now. Love that word King-dingalicious. Talk about buying too much home.

8:33am • #16
548,980 Points 110 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Mark...

I've already learned the hard way to keep my opinion on this topic to myself :)

I am going to park and follow the comment stream though :)

P.S. When our Sons were young and messy I bought a storage bin for them to toss their shoes in. If they didn't use the bin they had to hand wash the dishes after dinner. They hated that. Who wants to hand wash all those dishes when there's a perfectly good dishwasher right there? :)

TLW...ROAR!

8:41am • #17
1,545,496 Points 416 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Don't forget the lenders who advise the desperate home owner that they can't talk to the about modification or short sale unless they are in arrears for XXX months.

Don't blame the consumer.  They haven't the foggiest idea how these systems work.

 

9:26am • #18
482,745 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Morning Mark,  Sad story isn't it ?  Remember that there are many people in the industry that encourage exactly this sort of decision !

9:49am • #19

Good Morning Mark -

I worked for a major bank recently doing mortgage modifications. We were proactive in calling our delinquent customers and offering mortgage modifications, waived accured interest and in some cases principal reduction. More often than not people would say my home lost 50% of its value and I'm not paying anything until you reduce my principal by 50%. I only said it one time to a customer. But I said, "After you lost everything in the stock market did you call anyone and ask for it back?" Or "when you drove your car off the lot and it lost value did you turn around and ask to get a loan reduction to offset your loss of value?" It is unfortunate that we our going through this current correction. However, folks need to own up to their own actions. No one held a gun to your head and said "here, sign this. Press hard. And I'll give you a line of credit for $100,000.

 

 

Derek Meyer
10:14am • #20

I enjoyed reading the post :)

I do agree with you as well...26% of foreclosures due to someone deciding they don't want to make the payments any more is appalling!

Best,
Dan

10:33am • #21
848,742 Points 153 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Parked...Broker Bryants post had lots of great comments.

I like to hear both sides.

11:51am • #22
331,748 Points 7 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Called Shot Master

Kingdingalicious~ Mark - you do have children running around your house! LOL!

Great subject for debate here. I like to hear both sides as well. When people borrow or sale property they usually get the advice of friends and family who do not always know or should not be giving out real estate advice. It is a tough call to walk away from your home but I think most misunderstand the ramifications of their actions.

12:41pm • #23
860,645 Points 76 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

We are seeing that here, but not at the 26% level.

12:54pm • #24
687,078 Points 83 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I'm not sure why people don't file for protection under Bankruptcy . . . Chapter 7, 11, 13.  Personally, I'd rather consult with a bankruptcy attorney -- who went to law school and has a degree -- then some nimrod loan modification "expert"  . . . and I NEVER heard of that job title until about 8 months ago!

 

12:57pm • #25

I had a client who was told that if they wanted to do a modification, they needed to be at least 3 months behind for the bank to consider it. They have great credit, just owe a lot more on the home than it is worth so they couldn't refinance it. Thankfully the new 125% product is here to help.

2:59pm • #26
3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Fran, Dinah and JoAnna,

Take a look at my Part II post concerning this issue as to the follow on challenges faced by some of these folks who make the voluntary decision to quit paying their mortgage. It is more than the destruction of their credit. READ ON!

thanks for your comments to all who responded, it is appreciated.

Mark

3:04pm • #27
278,556 Points 15 Featured Posts

Mark, out market has not lost any value in the last two years, so when I work short sales it is not because people don't want to pay because there house is worth less than the mortgage. Jus to give you a run down on the last four it is tied, two becasue of divorce, and two because of medical. In all cases, the emotional devastation can be daunting to deal with. Let's hope the general market recovers, banks get more reasonable, and the government will work in mysterious ways. I feel a PeeWee Herman line coming on.

3:37pm • #28
535,686 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

This is a hot button topic.  I think that is happening a lot in my area too.  You can rip people all you want but its their choice.

4:30pm • #29
222,013 Points 9 Featured Posts

Good post and the discussion has been great fun to read.  Now I'm off to read what BB had to say about it. 

7:27pm • #30
608,296 Points 26 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

There are simply some people taking advantage of the current market situation just like there always are in any scenario. In a perfect world, everyone who could afford to pay would because it is the right thing to honor your word. But were the banks honorable when they crafted loans developed for commercial use and spread them around the residential loan world to consumers who had no real understanding of the system and how it worked?

Sharon

10:34pm • #31
JUL
22
2009
697,926 Points 35 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

We have A LOT of people in our area who have stopped paying their mortgage because their property value dropped.  I don't agree with this tactic nor do I believe people who used their houses as ATM's should be let off the hook.

8:57am • #32
125,670 Points Attended Rain Camp

As a listing agent I saw a transaction in 2006 where the attorney spoke English and the buyer only Spanish with very limited English.  You gotta love the buyer agent who translated for her client.  I watched many times as the attorney explained at length in English what her loan and contract terms were, then the buyer agent would turn to her client and say in Spanish, "You'll be fine, go ahead and sign". 

If this buyer walks away from her home I can't say I will blame her.  The attorney and the buyer agent should be made to pay for her mortgage!

9:05am • #33

I'm reading so much judgment on this blog.  It's sad.  For those who would judge the circumstances of those who are struggling to make a payment, or who attempt to define "afford," I feel sorry for you, for one day you, too, will be judged.

Consumer
11:35am • #34

No one forces anyone to buy a home. Statements like: "Personally I believe that we as realtors need to do a good job of making sure we dont put our clients into a home they cant afford" are true...to an extent - how do YOU judge, for another person, what they can and can't afford.  People buy what they want - I do what I can to advise them, but at the end of the day - people do what they want or think is best for them.

I mean - for people to "strategically" not pay their mortgage...what's wrong with that?  Business people, all over the world - work things out with their debtors to restructure their notes - trump did it in Atlantic City. 

I would say that most people who aren't paying their mortgage - really can't. 

11:59am • #35
124,162 Points

Interesting post and comments.  I'm off to read part 2.

5:51pm • #36

I f the value of a house goes from 650k to 350k in a few years it sounds to me the appraisal process is in need of serious overhaul. The average homeowner depends and pays for a professional appraisal to verify that what they baught is worth what they paid. Of course an unforseen circumsatnce, new zoning allows them to open that strip club accross the street, could change things. However a economic swing should not take 50% of the value out of your home unless it was never there to begin with other then on paper due to some system that I say again is in need of serious overhaul.

8:54pm • #37
1,007,238 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I think we're going to see more and more of this as people get frustrated by what's going on around them.

10:39pm • #38
AUG
10
2009

Some people have no choice. But the ones that do, should live up to their obligation if they can. If they truly can't then they should be able to get the needed assistance.

4:35pm • #40
JAN
26
2010

What if the neighborhood you live in has deteriorated so much due to the foreclousres?  I would say 90% of the houses in my neighborhood have been foreclosed on.  I found a discarded syringe in the street recently.  My neighbor had his door kicked in and was robbed just before xmas.  Police helicopters have been overhead a couple of times.   I am afraid to go outside in my yard.  The houses were originally $400,000 to $200,000 back in 2004 when I bought.  I thought surely I would be living next door to at least nice middle class people with nice families.  Turns out 40% of the houses were bought by investors.  I don't want to be a landlord and probably couldn't afford 2 mortgage payments even with the rent that won't cover the mortgage on this house.  The house next door to mine sold recently for $118,000.  The other next door $80,000.

I love my house, hate my neighborhood.  Should I stay or walk away?

 

 

doistayorgo
4:20pm • #43
3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

doistayorgo,

What part of the country do you live in?

You are in a difficult situation for sure. Time is always a great healer.

What comes down usually goes back up. It would be difficult to answer your question about staying or walking without a lot more input about your circumstances financially as well as the location of the real estate and other factors.

Please email me if you would like some personal consultation about what the ramifications would be for you personally as everyone's situation is different. A general answer to your specific question would either be way off or right on, so I would be glad to help if you would like some answers. mwarner@realespace.com

5:29pm • #44
FEB
06
2010
469,890 Points 10 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Where people ever learned they could walk away from their obligations beats me.

6:22am • #45

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Mark Warner

Plano, TX

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