There are things that you, as a home buyer, want to know about a prospective new neighborhood.  Are the schools top shelf?  Is there shopping nearby?  Do the neighbors hold a semi-annual Ed Begley Jr. look-alike contest?  For the most part, your agent can help you find the answers to these questions (though determining a victor in the latter contest seems dubious given the subject hasn’t been seen in public in two decades).  There are some matters which may be pertinent to your purchasing decision that I cannot field, however.

Fair housing doctrine is the result of a noble pursuit to ensure that consumers enjoy basic rights and equality in the purchase of a home.  The so-called protected classes against which housing discrimination is strictly prohibited include race, color, religion, gender, national origin, persons with disabilities and familial status (having children under 18 years of age). 

(Note the omission of job description from that grouping.  Don’t like attorneys?  You don’t have to sell your house to one.  Of course, green is the only color that matters, and rejecting any potential suitor for a reason other than unacceptable contract terms is not only foolish, but an invitation for trouble.  Protected class or not.)

Now that we have established who cannot be barred from housing opportunities for no other reason than certain personal attributes, let’s take it a step further.  A frequent criticism of Realtors is that we won’t answer your direct questions when you are trying to get the skinny on an area.  Your pointed questions are met with milquetoast answers such as, “There are all types of people in this community,” or “You should go to the police department website to research that on your own.”

It’s not because we don’t want to be helpful.  We do.  Believe me.  Many times, we are constrained by overbearing legalities that make it difficult to effectively advise our clients.  While laudable, fair housing doctrine in practice can be maddeningly frustrating, too.  I cannot tell you how many Christian families live in the neighborhood.  I can’t tell you if a subdivision is kid friendly.  I can’t tell you if an area you have inquired about is a “bad part of town” or not.  I can’t even give you the wink or the nod of my head as I drone on about not being permitted to discuss such matters. 

When you, as an unknowing consumer, stray into the no-fly zone, the exchanges often go something like this.

Q:  “Are there a lot of minorities in this area?”

A:  “There are people of all kinds in this neighborhood.  I am not at liberty to discuss such things.  Please get out of my car you intolerant ape.”

 

Q:  “Are there more families or singles that live in this neighborhood?”

 A:  “There are people of all kinds in this neighborhood.  I am not at liberty to discuss such things.  If you are trolling for a date, I suggest the local pub ... maybe Facebook.”

 

Q:  “Is there a lot of crime here?”

A:  “That depends on whether you consider vice a victimless crime … er, I mean, you would need to check the local PD’s website to review those statistics.”

 

Q:  “Are there any agnostic Madagascan women who walk with a limp and have six adoptive Inuit kids nearby?”

A:  “Security!”

The thing to remember is that we agents deal in properties, not people.  Ask me about the community amenities, the builders, the values.  Shoot, you can ask me for the square root of the Pythagorean Theorem for that matter (the answer is “F” by the way).  Just don’t ask me to lay out the area demographics for you.  There are resources available to you should you wish to perform your own investigations, but as a licensed agent, I cannot steer you to or from a particular area based on criteria that either closely treads or firmly stomps on a protected class. 

Are there times when I feel constrained from fully doing my job and properly advising my clients about both the positives and negatives in a community?  Absolutely.  As a safeguard that prevents agents from feeding into arcane prejudices and stereotypes, however, it is necessary to ensure that we don’t artificially impact values or deny opportunities.

You can ask me if the house is far enough away from the meth lab down the street to withstand the inevitable explosion.  Just don’t ask me to speculate whether the aspiring chemist within is here legally or not.

 

 
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57 Comments on "Is the Somali Next Door a War Criminal" and other questions your agent cannot legally answer

AUG
06
Localism Sponsor

I also had an interesting situation recently wherein a prospective buyer was coming through an Open House I was running and he asked if the current owners were Asian.  Being Asian himself, I thought it strange that he asked me that - until I overheard him tell his wife that they should only buy a house previously owned by an Asian.  My answer to him was, "I have no idea what the ethnic origin of the current owners is, but it really shouldn't be a matter of consideration when purchasing a property."

Some people are just strange and I'm glad I don't have to work with them if I don't want to! 

-Tim

11:59am • #1
651,805 Points 108 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Paul - I have suggested that people can check out more about the neighborhood by driving around after work hours to meet/see the neighbors if they're that interested and/or concerned.  I hate how constrained we are, when we are really just trying to help our clients make the right decisions for their needs/wants.  That being said, I don't care too much about the actual demographics, but the crime rate for an area would be of interest.  I always feel lame saying, "The city police department has these stats available", even though I do say it. 

Incidentally, I saw Ed Begley, Jr. cussing up a storm as Seth Rogen's girlfriend's dad in a movie that Pam and I watched last week - "Pineapple Express".  Just FYI -

12:03pm • #2
Outside Blog

That depends on whether you consider vice a victimless crime- I'm still laughing on that one!

Such an awkward topic - I usually head these discussions off by prepping them - "you'll want to do some independent research when picking your neighborhood, school stats, crime stats etc." I also tell them to come to the area at various times during the day to get a feel for what it is like. Then if they say any of the above I can just refrence our previous conversation by repeating what I have already told them.

One time I pulled up to a condo area and it was TRASHED - I mean really awful - I tried to hide the horror from my face as I turned to my client and said - "well now that you have seen the neighborhood and outside would you like to go any further" - She had a panic look on her face - exploded into a nervous laughter and said "Are you KIDDING me here?" It was a great bonding moment.

12:15pm • #3
832,096 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

With so much demographic information available on the Internet, I get fewer and fewer such inquiries. 

If someone is clearly looking for a specific type of "neighborhood", I just get very booked.  I no longer have the patience to deal with troglodytes.  It's a matter of risk reduction.  I don't want them knocking on neighboring doors with my card in their clutches. 

 

 

12:18pm • #4
2 Featured Posts

Great explanation about this touchy topic. Usually my clients understand and do their own homework if they're really concerned. I'm still laughing about the meth lab comment!

12:20pm • #5
108,021 Points

Is it a good neighborhood?  It will be until you move there!  great post!  cheryl(it's all good till you move there)willis

12:30pm • #6
1 Featured Post

Lenn - could you tell us what you really think - How often do you hear the word troglodyte these days! As usual, the comments are as good as the postings -

12:36pm • #7
116,111 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

PAUL! I aboluely LOVE this post. I really like your witty writing style. I read every word, just so you know! Very worthy feature. CONGRATS!

12:43pm • #8

Paul, you are an eloquent expresser, obviously one who has a great command for the art. But I  jus wanna ask you one thing Can you smell that pig farm from this house?

stephen orear
12:49pm • #9
139,966 Points 13 Featured Posts

I had my first "fair housing issue" pop up a couple of months ago.  They wanted to know if the neighborhood was an "enclave" for a specific ethinic group.  Rather than spew the typical "I can't answer that" I asked "what is your concern?"

It turned out that they had driven the neighbohood in the evening and there were several young men with sagging pants hanging out who looked "rough."  I suggested they call the local police department and find out about crime calls in that neighborhood. They did and it wasn't satisfactory to them.  We never talked about race because really it wasn't an issue of race. It was an issue of crime.

Sometimes just trying to find out the underlying concern can help an agent figure out how to answer a client's question without dealing with fair housing violations.

12:54pm • #10
372,508 Points 63 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hi Paul, How are you? I hope you are doing really well and your market is abundant for you. This post is so cleverly written and reflects the writing genius in you that is so wonderful and truly appreciated. I really enjoy your great writing style and agree that this is a superb "featured" post. So well done!

1:12pm • #11
146,776 Points

These can be killer questions for your career. We even have fair housing folks from the govt. call and ask leading questions to get our answers. I "steer" them to different websites to answer their questions, all public knowledge, I tell them.

1:14pm • #12

Paul,


I couldn't stop laughing at this post. I enjoyed your humor especially on such a "sentistive" subject. It is great to hear how others handle it and I love how you wrote what you really want to say. Classic...

Great Post.

1:17pm • #13
3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Paul:

I am sitting here almost in tears ...   thank-you ... thank-you ... thank-you for the great laugh!  And your point is well taken .. and lesson is learned!

Gene

 

1:36pm • #14
2 Featured Posts

While I don't have to deal with any specific legislation (I'm in Canada) we do have a Charter of Human Rights and violating that (which pretty much covers the same territory) winds you up in a highly publicized tribunal over whether you are espousing racist or hate mongering drivle. Of course, what makes things easier on the Realtor here, because it's a Charter and not a law aimed at giving advice, is the person asking the question is under just as much scrutiny. There's an argument that the "troglodytes" (I love that word too Lise ;o) get driven underground - which has some merit - but fortunately I've never had to deal with these kinds of questions ever. And don't think I'd keep working with someone if I did for that matter! Great post - a good laugh with a very serious point underlying, keep up the great work!

1:46pm • #15
285,230 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I don't get  the questions much anymore either. I refer to the Internet, the local PD, drive the neighborhood after hours...

1:50pm • #16
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

I still get those questions that make me uncomfortable and I deflect them with a list of websites that will answer their questions. 

Your answers were priceless and very funny!

2:00pm • #17
205,866 Points 4 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I sell homes near a college campus on a lake, so many times parents ask me when they are shopping for a lake home/ college crash pad if I would buy in "this neighborhood" for my own child, my answer is usually the same.  Nope, this neighborhood is not in my budget!  LOL  But I usually do what Jason suggested and tell them to drive over and meet the neighbors and about crime I tell them to check the local paper crime digest.

2:03pm • #18

GREAT POST!!  (Funny Too!!)

I do like the tips from other agents also.

Thanks!

2:14pm • #19
169,061 Points 6 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I was almost alarmed when I read the title, but, knowing you, I persisted until the very end. Glad that I did. You've made some very sound points. I got put into a predicament (almost) when someone asked me what the type of neighborhood a particular house was located in was like, and I told them that they could drive by and see the neighborhood. One of the senior agents in the office overheard that conversation and warned me that peopel do like to "go fishing", and to be careful not to take the bait. One agent in our area got fined and their license suspended for making statements in violation of the fair housing act a few years ago.

2:36pm • #21

When I was taking classes to get my real estate license, the teacher I had for most of my classes, herself an active agent, had a great saying to stay out of trouble." Be the source of the resource." In other words, don't give them the information, tell them where they can go to find the information. 

2:37pm • #22
582,068 Points 62 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I personally like the physics meth lab distance explosion question Paul. Fair enough. Now if the meth house does blow up and you said they would be safe three blocks over and their shingles blow off, are you liable? Hmmm, maybe that safe I don't know covers you best.

2:54pm • #23
403,148 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Paul...

What's a troglodyte? :)

By the way I'm adept at answering questions with questions. It's served me well over the years :)

TLW...ROAR!

2:59pm • #24

Paul- thanks for the great laughs.

I know each time we have relocated it has gotten easier with the advent of the internet but still some input would be nice from an agent.  Having to move totally cold into a neighborhood isn't as easy as I want a bigger house or a smaller one. I know we can't give our opinion but I love the way you answer the questions!!

 

3:11pm • #25
314,115 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

Very nice post. It is so true. Consumers do not always realize they are asking questions we cannot LEGALLY answer!

3:23pm • #26
112,410 Points 4 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hilarious!  Love the comebacks and especially about the exploding meth lab and aspiring chemist!  You are a hoot!  I understand where you are coming from.  I have been faced with these and other inquiries and I don't bend and tell them to practice due diligence and research the communities they are interested in.  Good post!

Jeani Thomas Richie, REALTOR

3:51pm • #27

Hi Paul. Some buyers have a shocked look on their face when I tell them to refer to several websites or to call a certain department for more information.

3:56pm • #28

Hi Pail,

Just so you know, Ed Begley, Jr. stars in an HGTV show called "Living with Ed" where he tries to force his wife into being an environmentally focused person -- and she's not.  Anyway, I liked the contest idea!

Seriously, these are tricky questions and I really enjoyed reading your entertaining feature.  Thanks!

4:03pm • #29
10 Featured Posts

Good answers!  I have once had a potential seller go there with me, and it was not pretty when I told him that he could not limit who bought his house based on those criteria.  He ended up FSBO'ing and I shudder to think of what he may have done to find his ideal buyer...

It's scary that it exists.  I had a closing where the seller discovered the buyer's color at the closing and just exploded.  It was ugly.

4:09pm • #30
148,173 Points 4 Featured Posts

Your humor is so dry I think I should declare a fire alert. Enjoyable read.

4:43pm • #31
120,477 Points 9 Featured Posts

Once a buyer came to a property of mine with his agent. The buyer said to me, "Is this neighborhood integrated?"

At the time we were at a large picture window and a human rainbow was walking by - every color was represented, right there before his eyes.

I told him, "I'm not at liberty to answer that question, but I recommend you call and get census data."

He ignored that response, continued to look out the window, and turned to me and asked again, "Is this neighborhood integrated?"

I told him, "I'm not at liberty to answer that question, but I recommend you spend time here to see what the neighborhood is like.

The entire neighborhood was still out on parade for the evening, and we were still by the window. Exasperated, he put his hands on his hips and shouted at me, "BUT IS THIS NEIGHBORHOOD INTEGRATED???!!!"

I looked at his agent who was mortified (and silent), and told him to tell his client to look out the window~!!!!

I don't think he knew what integrated meant.

 

5:23pm • #32
188,781 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Can I borrow those answers?   I had an Asian woman from another state ask if there were other Asian people in the neighborhood.  What's the correct answer?   I said "there are all types of people in all the neighborhoods in Rhode Island"  Was that general enough.

6:11pm • #33
108,624 Points 11 Featured Posts

Paul, You do have a way with words my friend and brought the truth to the public that we are not ignoring their questions just doing what is required.

Now do you have any stats on the distance the blast normally produces damage from the average meth house explosion?

6:49pm • #34
343,190 Points Outside Blog

People who ask usually understand why you can't tell them it seems.

7:35pm • #35
Outside Blog

Hi Paul,

Your humor is infectious. Wonderfully written and I agree, it is tough treading the water sometimes. People are so internet savvy I have to beleive they have already done the research when they call to see something, It could also be a test...

Kathy B

7:47pm • #36
239,191 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ugh...I hate getting those kinds of questions from people.  It seems like most of us use the old "drive around the neighborhood" deflection with a certain degree of success, but I'm thinking I'm going to add a troglodyte radar to my arsenal of real estate tools. 

8:32pm • #37
438,544 Points 10 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I haven't gotten many questions like that.  I pretend I didn't hear them.  There are some people that are bigots no matter what race, religion, or culture they are from.

8:33pm • #38
263,157 Points 59 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ahhhh, legalities.  Shoot, we (as Mortgage Folks) haven't had to deal with them for years.  We just sit here in panties and wonder why loans aren't closing.

If I may be so bold, I'll answer the question from TLW... and there isn't no swimming away.

Right on, Slaybaugh.  Right on...

Humor aside, I'm just wondering if I can substantiate my existence with my answer.   I really can't.  I dove into a pile of crap and smell like shit.  That's how it goes.  Meth labs seem to bore folks who I can't reach from conventional means. 

(I'd rather have a severe concussion)

8:37pm • #39
196,587 Points 26 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Ha ! Classic - and as usual, the poignant underlying msg !

My question is, what would Jack Bauer say if asked those Qs ? ...lol

Fortunately I rarely get asked these probing Qs, but I have directed some peeps to CityData on a few occasions.

Good Stuff Paul !

Cheers !

Sheldon

9:14pm • #40
152,632 Points 4 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

As much as I hate to admit this, I actually spend a fair amount of time researching the locations of recent meth lab busts.  Nice post, blah, blah, blah.  Now, what the heck is Alan up to?!

9:17pm • #41
AUG
07
567,120 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Well said with all your humor. You should be hired to teach this in a way "agents get it".

Once explained why I can't discuss this, the clients are appreciative and don't ask anymore.

Most out of town buyers anyway.

Local people moving up, or down know where they want to be. Like Lenn it is rare to get asked this anymore....but occassionally.

6:49am • #42
114,326 Points 1 Featured Post

Security! Security! This was a very true, well written, and funny post. I don't think I'd want to give advice about the meth lab though...

8:25am • #43
228,986 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Thank you for the responses, everyone.  It does seem that there is one piece of the post that resonates most strongly with the audience.  Ed Begley Jr.  Apparently my reports of his demise are premature and the prodigious St. Elsewhere alum is busier than a chain-smoking, coffee drinking REO agent at present.  Fans of his entertainment accomplishments have my apologies.  Please mentally overwrite his name with "Ray Parker, Jr." 

Proceed.

9:13am • #44

The Limping Madagascan Agnostic...I know her!!! Ornery woman. Don't ask her about the Inuit kids!

Being a white guy, what I find most offensive is those clients of my own ethnicity feeling perfectly comfortable making racial slurs about people,areas or individual homes in front of me. Little do they know I'm married to an Asian, and am lucky enough to have friends across the racial spectrum. Green is still green, and I will sell them a house. But those clients are kept on a very short leash.

9:19am • #45
403,148 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

LOL Sardi...

That was twisted :)

Paul...

I have no idea what you just said. No wonder you and Sardi get along so well :)

TLW...ROAR!

9:45am • #46
212,973 Points

A lot of cities have a web site to check for crimes committed.  You can check by street or neighborhood.  I give that website when showing all neighborhoods and explain that there are some things I just can't talk about.

9:50am • #47
5 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

@Jason - I remember that song! Who knew it was now a video?! Not sure but I think Bertha is an agent...times were tough...back then...the things we had to do to get prospects before we had email to spam folks with...

Sorry Paul, how come C-Tann didn't jack this blog anyway?

10:34am • #48
327,644 Points 19 Featured Posts Outside Blog

These questions roll off buyer's tongues all the time. Once I explain why I can't answer, then most people are just fine. I have had a few that just couldn't get it, but they are rare for me thankfully.

10:48am • #49

Paul, 

Well crafted. I'm jealous. I lack the spine to post a headiine like yours in New Jersey.  I imagine it would generate a complaint.  

P.S. Melina, I wear sagging pants and I resent your comment.  

Lenza
12:55pm • #50
Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I don't like our system and I will state that in bold letters if I need to.  Clients (and I stress the word CLIENT since we are supposed to h ave a fiduciary duty to these people) use us to help them, to advise them on their largest investment in life.  A home, not only an investment but a place to feel safe, a place to raise their families, to visit with their grand children. 

My issue is that every one with the exception of a REALTOR is permitted to answer any question about an area, crime rates, school systems, demographics, etc.  We are not permitted to advise, counsel or even have a conversation with our clients about the area in which they might spend the rest of their lives.  I think this makes us less effective and transparent to our clients. 

I know many of you will disagree but if you will be honest with yourself and with everyone else you will admit that you feel foolish and that you are playing word games with your clients when they ask you a direct question and you tap dance all around the subject or give your client an answer that you and they know is a BS way of avoiding the question.

Our society has gone to far in this political correctness when we are hampered from doing what we are hired to do.  You would think that with one of the largest lobbying groups in the United States we could stand up for ourselves.

5:14pm • #51
300,896 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Well done!  It's nice to see that Realtors here are all on the same page.  Now can you tell me what percentage of lawyers live in the 'hood?

9:04pm • #52
AUG
08
151,202 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Hi Paul, I'm not often up LAUGHING at 3:00am, catching up on my emails and read this post...not that fair housing is any joke, of course, but, like every frown turned upside down becomes a smile, hitting the funnybone of serious subjects lets us shake out the wrinkles of time that furrow false impresions, political correctness & prejudices...we might even transform from idealists into a practical people that utilize the lost art of common sense (OMG!)...

In hopes of returning the good cheer to you today, here's a piece from a lawyer's courtroom conversation:

May your day be one that laughs :-)

4:41am • #53
AUG
09
176,513 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

The old saying is talk about the houses not the people and be safe in fair housing.

9:23am • #54
228,986 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I never stood a chance on this thread. Thanks again to all who commented, and my utmost apologies for the dereliction of duty from my post.  The real world, as it is wont to do, beckoned less with a whisper than a bullhorn and taser this week.  While I am remiss in not responding individually, I read each and every comment.  Some of you people are nuts ;)

10:32pm • #55
AUG
12
145,311 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I just needed a laugh, so I decided to read one of my favorite bloggers on Active Rain.  You are so witty.  Hope everything is going well for you my friend!

9:53pm • #57
AUG
16
359,576 Points 23 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

hmmm we don't have the same rules here.....we have no problem saying 'there's a registered sex offender that lives in that one!' ;-)

11:21pm • #58

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Paul Slaybaugh, Scottsdale AZ Real Estate

Scottsdale, AZ

More about me…

Realty Executives

Address: 10607 N. Hayden Rd 100, Scottsdale, AZ, 85260

Office Phone: (480) 948-9450

Cell Phone: (480) 220-2337

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