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That new listing you and your buyers saw online? The house may not really be for sale. - Information for Macomb County MI home buyers

Macomb County MI homes for sale I think I may have the answer as to why some listings in our area are so difficult, if not impossible, to obtain showing request confirmation let alone a return phone call back from some agents.

A few weeks ago I was contacted by a home owner in my area to put their home on the market. (No specific area will be noted here nor names to protect their privacy.)

I spent hours doing research on their specific neighborhood, the last 90 days of market activity as well as preparing for talking to them about their options should a short sale of their home be needed. (Referring them to another agent who is knowledgable in short sales)

After I arrived at their home they were quite clear in what they wanted me to do for them: Put their home in the MLS, and nothing else. No marketing, no showings by any potential buyers and their agents, no counseling as to the market value of their home, nothing.

They needed their home to be on the market while they were trying for a loan modification from their lender in order to show this lender that they were doing everything possible to help themselves in this difficult economic time.

I was stunned.   They wanted a professional real estate agent to do nothing but put their home in the MLS so that they could have a printout to send to their negotiator to help their loan modification process.

Perhaps I'm an idiot, but I passed on the opportunity to have my sign on their front lawn. (They did want a sign in case someone from the lender came by to check and make sure the house was not vacant.)

I politely explained what I do, why I do it, and how my broker gets paid for the work that we do. I also told them that it was my reputation (and my brokers) that would be on that lawn sign and that I could not be a party to the frustration of buyers and their agents when they called to set up a showing only to be denied over and over and over again.

I did leave them the market analysis that I prepared for them, so that they could have accurate information for their loan negotiator regarding the current market value for their home. But I could not do what they wanted me to do: List their home for sale without it really being for sale.

It makes me wonder about all the times I tried to set an appointment for one of my buyer clients to view a listing and cannot recieve confirmation.

                                         Perhaps the home really isn't for sale?

Kris Wales a Macomb County MI real estate agent

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Posted by Kris Wales - Macomb County MI real estate blog & homes for sale search site on 08/11/2009 05:42 AM

Comments (61)

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61 Comments on That new listing you and your buyers saw online? The house may not *really* be for sale. - Information for Macomb County MI home buyers

AUG

Hi Kris, how frustrating. Wouldn't it have been nice to know before you put in all those hours working on the CMA? On the buyer's side, I just came across several cases that appear to be like this one just last week. Several calls to listing agent on more than one home for showing appointments, leaving messages and no one ever called back. It seems those homes are really not for sale!

LOVE THE PICTURE! That is almost all the houses on our market now! It annoys me to no end. Seems like if it goes into foreclosure they can at least say "they tried" if the lender ever comes back to them!

I've heard of low response on listings for some time, but this is the first I've seen a reason for "listing" a home, but not really.

Interesting, all they wanted was your time, your sign and your information to get a loan modified.

Did you tell them very few IF ANY loans are being modified in Michigan?

Maybe a 3 month lower payment but that is IT.

Incredible. .they wanted you to do something that constitutes fraud and they asked you to help them with no reservations whatsoever after you went out of your way to prepare for a listing appointment. .

idiots and stupid to booth. . they are lucky it wasn't me . ..

Wouldn't this be considered participating in a fraud? It just does not sound right to me. I realize that many can only qualify for a loan mod if their house is listed, but to list solely for that purpose .... sounds shady to me.

Kris, I am a bit surprised since I have not encountered this yet... I am sure it will hit us eventually. How that type of "listing" will skew the market is terrible. And it does smack of fraud but I do not know, imagine the unmigated gall of these people asking you to do all that work, go to expenses of signs and brochures and etc and the house is not for sale? and no compensation for the Broker or the Realtor. Idiots as someone above said.

Silvia, I really should blame myself for not going more in depth on the phone first. I did ask why they wanted to sell and they did tell me that it was for economic reasons. I don't push at that point, I would rather be face to face when asking such personal questions, but I have learned from this.

Renee, I think that is what I was seeing with these home owners. I also wonder how often an agent will just do it (put out the sign with no intention of selling or showing the home.)

Penny, First time I've been asked to do this, but I wonder..how often is it happening?

Missy, I've only heard of one person who was able to get their loan successfully modified (with principal reduction). She was able to get it done late last year, before the so called "Hope for Homeowners" program that is being touted now. (Original mortgage was with GMAC)

Fernando, I was also an idiot for not being a bit more pushy on the phone with my questions. I've learned.

Carol, It sure felt like fraud to me. No intention of showing the home to prospective buyers, nothing.

Gail, Misinformed as to what it is that we do, yes. Oh yes. It was another example of our profession not being taken seriously.

I would have probably pointed out to them that is also known as mortgage fraud and you don't really want to be a part of that as well.

Todd Clark - www.LivingBeaverton.com

That's the first time I've heard of this. I had a house I tried to show last week and never got confirmation, even spoke with the listing agent and never returned a call. Makes me wonder?

I've heard of several successful rate modifications, maybe not with principal reduction but with interest rate reduction which can lower payments considerably.

Todd, I didn't think quickly to point out that tidbit of info :-)

Mike, Makes you wonder about those no showing confirmations / no call backs doesn't it?

Kris, People still stun me with their actions...I guess they will continue to. I'm sorry you wasted your time but I have to feel really sorry for these people who think this way.........

Kris...

Every time I start thinking perhaps I really have seen it all someone like you comes along and makes it quite clear I ain't seen nothing. Yet :)

P.S. You look lovely today :)

TLW...ROAR!

Kris - On the brightside at least they shared their plan with you. They could have let you list the house and then deny showings. I wouldn't be surprised if they kept this information from the next agent.

Oh My Gosh! I have not heard of this. In my area, people accept the NOD being filed to demonstrate they are serious. I had not heard of people listing their home for sale to get the attention of the bank. It's a shame it takes that action to get the bank to respond.

Kris, today I called to see a house, the listing agent, who also happens to be the owner, told me I couldn't see it, he was cleaning it. So when I asked when can I see it, he said two to three weeks!

Out of curiosity I pulled up his tax record, it has a lien placed on it. Makes me wonder what's he up too; maybe what you blogged about? At least that would be one explanation.

That's wild. I don't think that is going on here ....because it is just so bizarre I can not conceive of it. I can not really think of properties I was not able to get a confirmation on... or just a couple.

An agent in my office told a story about clients getting their mortgage modified...

Hi Kris.

I may be able to shed a little insight on this for you. I now work for a loan servicer and underwrite loan modifications. When we are working on a modification, we do not ask the borrower to list their property for sale unless it is the only alternative to foreclosure. It is not a requirement to do so.

However, some people prefer to do a Deed in Lieu, with the expectation that they can walk away qucikly and move on. We will not consider a Deed in Lieu unless the borrower has listed the property and it has been actively marketed to no avail.

I have one borrower in this position - he informed me of the listing price ( which was significantly higher than the market value and other listings in the area.) I advised him that he needed to have his realtor do some due diligence and price the property for the market. ( We are not allowed to "suggest" a listing price. His response "You told me I needed to list it, but I still have tenants and I don't want to scare them, so I don't want the property to be shown." Of course, the realtor is a friend of his, so she was willing to list the property for him.

I can't speak for other lenders or loan servicers, but I am in the loop, and I have never heard of a lender requiring a borrower to list their property while they were in the process of a loan modification.

Shame on them for wasting your time!!

This type of listing might be unethical in our area, and I'm glad you didn't do it. If a property is listed in the multiples. it must be available to show if it's ACTIVE. If the sellers told you they are only doing this for 'show' -- pardon the pun -- it's not presenting a true and accurate picture of the property/advertsing.

And I agree with Cheryl -- shame on them for wasting your time.

Kris,

Just when you think you've heard it all, here comes Kris with a doozie. Good for you not being a party to possible fraud.

Rich

How unfortunate, but glad to know it is just not our area that is experiencing some "strange" happenings.

I represented a buyer who placed on offer on a short sale that had been on the market almost a year. We waited 4 months, never did get regular updates from the listing agent and my calls were typically not returned in a timely manner. The buyers really loved the home, but we finally withdrew the offer and moved on to something else in the neighborhood after my buyer called me to relate the following story....

Turns out the listing agent was a friend of the seller and had assured the seller that they could remain in their home indefinitely as long as he could document to the lender that they were actively pursing a short sale. We found out we were the 3rd buyers who had tried to purchase the home, to no avail. I guess that's because it really wasn't "for sale". Why do these agents still have their licenses? It amazes me some of the blatant fraud that abounds, but I guess it's a matter of having to prove the actual fraud. Not sure if that would be easy to do. Unethical? Yes, without a doubt.

A new one for me, too. But like you said, it does make me wonder about some of the listings that are so hard to show.... Thakns for the heads up!

That explains some of the listings I have run across... I wonder how many of these have listings agents that aren't "in on it" so they just think they bought a high priced listing instead of a buyer that doesn't give a crap?

I have run into something similar but not quite the same. Will not go into it here. I would have done the same thing that you did.

Kris -

I haven;t run into anything like this - yet. Thanks for the heads up and congratulations on taking the high road.

Michael

I have also run into this for reasons other than loan mods, such as bridge loans and medicare.

Hi Kris -- I have called on a short sale listing for sale multiple times and have NEVER even gotten a response.

And if that isn't bad enough the brokers that list all the bank foreclosures don't place them pending until close so we call or try to set up showings only to find out they have had a binding offer on it for some time. Always something new to deal with.

Holy COW -- I noticed this post is not "members only," so I'm watchin' my language.

I've never heard of this -- do you suspect this is happening in many areas? I don't trust this loan modification crap.

Oh my.. this is pretty bad. Why would they go through all the hassel. Not to mention wanting you to do all work to list it.. FOR FREE

That seems pretty crazy. I cant believe someone would feel good about asking you to do that.

AUG

This is something I can see people doing to try and make a change to their situation but it causes confusion and frustration.

You make some valid points. But be assured that there is an agent out there that did pick up that listing. They added it to their "portfolio" of listings so that they can go get more listings and showing prospective clients how good they are because of the number of listings they have. Sad, but true. We always stress with home owners that are looking to put their home on the market that we focus on selling their homes not just listing them.

Hi Kris - A gal in my office had a gorgeous listing, from the MLS photos. I wanted to hold it open for her one weekend, but she said they don't believe in open houses. I wanted to preview it, but they wanted only agents who were bringing buyers. I finally found a possible buyer for it but they were on a three week vacation and didn't want it shown in their absence.

I decided I wouldn't even try any more and took my buyers to competing listings from then on. The listing finally expired and my friend didn't even try to renew it. Not worth the trouble of constantly fending off calls from other frustrated agents!

Wow! talk about using someone to get what they want or in this case need. I am glad that you passed...

Helping you live your American Dream...

Carole, I felt sorry for them and their situation, but I just couldn't be a party to it.

Billie, You're a sweetie, thank you :-)

Michelle, I've been watching both MLS databases and so far there hasn't been a "next" agent. It's not on the market.

Christianne, It is a shame that it takes listing a home for sale to get the banks to take notice of someones personal financial hardship.

Marie, Now when I don't see "No showings until such-and-such-date" and can't get in to see a home it makes me wonder...

Maureen, I didn't think this could go on here either, but after I left their home and thought about all the times I've tried to set appointments only to not receive a confirmation or hear "Not convenient for the seller at that time.." over and over again, it sheds some possible light on it.

Cheryl, Thanks for shedding some light on this. I hadn't heard either that this would be a lender requirement, but perhaps sellers are thinking that doing this would look better to the loan servicer? "I tried everything..."

Carla, It's also a requirement in our area (being available to show). Many times we hear ""it's not convenient" when we call for an appointment, or simply no call back at all. Makes me wonder now...

Rich, I was pretty dumbfounded while sitting at their table, but thankfully composed myself and took the time to explain what they were doing was something I could not be a party to, and why.

Julie, Wow. And the agent knowingly went along with that? Unbelievable.

Janna, I know it will be in the back of my mind when I hear "Can't view it..."

Lane, I'm wondering about that also. These people at least told me the truth about what they wanted and needed. How many home owners aren't telling the agents the truth and getting what they want without the agents having a clue?

Judi, I bet it took you for a surprise also.

Michael, I just couldn't stomach being a party to it. I felt for them as I do all home owners in our area with a true financial hardship, but this was too much.

Dee, Huh. Amazing. Bridge loans and Medicare? Unbelievable.

Chris, so have I. Too many times to count. Makes me wonder...

Terry and Bonnie,   Yes..that's so aggravating! It makes us look bad to our buyers.

Lori,   From the comments it sounds like the "sorry you can't show it" syndrome is going on all over the country, and now it makes me wonder if this scenario is part of the reason.

Roland,   Having my sign in the yard to capture buyer calls would be a reason for me to do it, don't you think? (not for me, no thanks.) Yet I wonder if other agents have done this for that reason...

Chuck, I don't think they initially thought they were doing anything wrong. I did point out to them though that it wasn't right, and explained why. People undergoing daily stress really aren't thinking clearly sometimes.

Christine, Exactly. I don't believe they knew the ramifications of it from a real estate professionals perspective. I felt sorry for them and their financial situation. I can only imagine how hard it has been for them trying to deal with the negotatior.

Terry, It hasn't come on the market (yet) and it's been a few weeks. I'm hoping they just sent in my market analysis to the negotiator and decided that listing it wasn't the thing to do.

Susan, Wow. That sounds like much of the same "No showings". I wonder if they were trying to negotiate something with their lender? You're absolutely right. The frustration from other agents and their buyers certainly isn't worth it.

Michael, It's desperate times here. I felt sorry for them, but hopefully they understand now how this just isn't right.

OK went out to dinner last night and was talking about this post to someone who is originally from Detroit MI...

#1 I know now how to pronounce Macomb County now... who knew it was NOT May-Comb?

#2 Would people instinctively know to do this? Rope in a REALTOR®? to make it look as if the house was on the market? Or are they told to do this?

I bet they never offered to pay you anything for the service? This cloud's our MLS with homes that that our buyers don't have a chance at. That is disturbing.

Kris,

I've encountered the same. Also have had folks want me to list as a way-overpriced short sale so that they get no offers but can stay in the home longer because the bank is willing to do the short sale.

Just like you, I can't have my ethics and reputation questioned. You will see this home listed soon by a different agent...

Strange. I would have told her fine, my fee is x to do that. And charge a nice fat fee to do it. See what she sees to that!

Unbelievable. You would think that people would have better sense than that. I guess not. Good for you for not going along with that scheme.

ugh....I hope this never comes to my area. This career has become increasingly difficult this year. It will be nice when things level out in a couple of years.

That is just plain rude, thoughtless, and selfish of them, Kris.

I wonder if there is a little bit of good news as to the bigger picture, though...perhaps areas with high inventory may not REALLY have such high inventory, and the market will rebound a little quicker after the lenders have caught up with all of their loan mods and deeds in lieu?

Kris, this is an extreme case of the same kind of issues I have with today's listings. I would say more than half are listed above market value with no ability of the seller to sell it at market value. I present an offer and their counter is: "This is as low as my seller can afford to go". Now what are we supposed to do? The result is much time wasted as we show house after house and make offer after offer before finding a seller who is truly able to sell. Great post!

We all handle these thing differently. I have never been asked to do what you described. Since loan mods rarely work out, why bother. I wouldn't have done it either.

Kris...

I just read another blog post on AR discussing this topic. According to the blogger the seller's already accepted an offer. It appears the offer was a 'just in case type' scenario. Obviously, situations like this will get worse before they get better. I envision lawsuits and commission disputes.

TLW...ROAR!

Maureen, So, you learned how to say Muh-Comb :-) I don't know that these particular home owners instinctively knew what to ask for. My impression (just a gut impression) was that perhaps the negotiatior asked if they were doing everything that could be done to mitigate any loss to the lender or perhaps someone else (another professional?) mentioned it may help. ::shrugs:: I didn't think about asking them why they would ask for this to be done.

Laura, Of course not. They would have signed a listing agreement with brokers fee on it, but with no chance of showing it let alone selling it there would be no pay. Shame on us for giving the impression to consumers that we will work for free. Somehow they got this in their heads...(some consumers, thankfully not all.)

Irene, It's sounding like this isn't a local (to me) occurance. Many agents from all over the country are stating they are seeing some of the same shenanigans.

Erica, I didn't even think of that, and wouldn't have done it without at least being able to have the home shown and have them consider any offer seriously.

William, On one hand I can't blame people who are stressed financially to try and find a way out, but on the other hand I cannot and will not jeopardize my reputation (or my brokers) for this type of thing.

Damon, The levelling out cannot come too soon in my opinion. Please let it happen soon...

Amy, I hope things work out as you envision. I am thinking that some of the short sales we're seeing now might not be *really* for sale after all. Could be less inventory now that I think about it.

Diane, Doesn't it make you just want to bang your head against the desk? Unrealistic sellers are cluttering the market and making it so difficult for those who really do want and need to sell. Just take them off the market until it recovers.

Joe, That was a first time for me, and I'm still a bit befuddled that it even happened. Glad to hear you wouldn't have taken the false listing either.

Billie, I just finished reading the blog article you mentioned. Holy Cow! I hope the buyers do seek legal advice and really do something about this. It is unforgiveable.

Kris: We're seeing this all the time in Colorado. There are even several Real Estate Agents who somehow advertise their business in this matter and collect a fee for putting listings in the MLS as "entry only" with a note to contact the home owner. Carrie

MLS only programs are one thing. Not really wanting to sell your home listed is another. I guess that must explain the FSBO in MLS offering 1$ to sell his home that never even returned my call when I asked to show it and about the commission. Maybe that needs to be reported, Can't be legal in MLS rules....

If a property is listed in the MLS, it is supposed to be available and ready to show. I've seen this in our area with out of the area agents who never answer the phone and of course you can't access. I report it every time I see it nothing seems to happen.

Kris,

What I don't understand is why you left the market analysis with them. Couldn't it tie you to potentially fraudulent activity?

AUG

Carrie and Kathy, When you call the sellers to view the homes are you able to do so?

Kathy, FSBO's are allowed to place their homes for sale in your MLS? Do they propagate to Realtor.com and other portals?

Carol, I agree. If you're in the MLS you should be able to set an appointment to view them for your buyer clients. It's so frustrating for all those involved who can't.

Joseph, We do competetive market analysis for homeowners all the time. If they decide to give my CMA to their lender to show that the market value has plunged then that's ok. Or perhaps it will help them to make an educated decision as to whether to list their home for real and try to obtain a short sale on their home. There is nothing fraudulant about that. Now, if I see their home come on the market in the MLS and cannot make an appointment to view it I will call our MLS and report it.

Carrie, Yes, it is quite legal for FSBO's to pay a small fee to get in the MLS. Many brokers include this program as a Non-rep, MLS Only program. These homes do go out to the other portals just like any listing. It concerns me that listings such as the one above, offering $1 to sell it and not returning calls to show it, is pushing the envelope a little bit. After reading your blog, it hit home that that was possibly what this seller was doing. Thanks for the heads up.

AUG

Kathy, Thank YOU for the heads up. It's always interesting to hear how the various MLS services work around the country.

I think I'd wonder about that too. Definitely they were asking you to do something not quite right. You were right to decline.

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