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They Will Kill Your Grandma and Make Your Toddler Read Karl Marx!!!

They Will Kill Your Grandma and Make Your Toddler Read Karl Marx!!!

Yep, you heard me right. I've been paying attention to screaming old dudes and ladies telling the government to "keep their hands off of my Medicare", I watched esteemed Sarah Palin talk about how her down syndrome baby and grandma were going to go in front of the Death Panels, I've heard many elected officials with R next to their names state with utmost certainty that we would be euthanizing the very old, the very disabled and indeed anyone who would not be deemed "best use of taxpayer dollars".

I assume the screamers, the ex-governors and the elected officials have read the bill, all 1000 and change pages of it. I assume it's all in there.

So I say, by all means, go to the Town Halls and keep on screaming as loudly as you can to save your toddlers and grandmas from certain death by euthanasia or communism. Keep on yelling and drowning out any meaningful discussion because you are scared shitless of something...mostly of words like socialism and communism and European-inspired. Most importantly, keep not actually reading and delving into what the plan calls for, you lazy fear-mongering freaks. After all, you all have it on good authority of Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh what this plan is about. Fox News knows best.

I will, however ask you all, when you take a breath from yelling, to allow for a tiny little possibility that maybe, just maybe there are those of us who would WANT to have an AFFORDABLE OPTION - those of us like my mom who has not been able to buy insurance because she had cancer surgery almost 10 years ago, those of us who cannot afford to pay $600 a month for maybe being able to go to the doctor, unless the doc chooses to disappear from the network for just the day of your appointment/procedure, and then magically reappear, hence mitigating in advance insurance company's ever having to use my money to provide care.

Sometimes I get the feeling that the glass-houses the screamers occupy are bullet proof, where no actual life as it is for most people penetrates, no discourse gets past the clichés, and no curiosity or compassion mars the inherent righteousness of their ways. And they are scared shitless of letting any of it go, even when no one is asking them to give anything up; even when the fears are based on imaginary monsters.

cause i rock...

Posted by Inna Hardison-ha media group Design, Printing, Web on 08/13/2009 12:48 PM

Comments (152)

can we stll freking read healthcare, fanatics are out in full force, buy limbaugh better drugs, you want your freaking country back

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152 Comments on They Will Kill Your Grandma and Make Your Toddler Read Karl Marx!!!

AUG

I love the way you express yourself, my friend. I cannot understand, and never have, people reacting this way without doing their own research. Calm down, find out what's really going on, and stop letting yourself be manipulated. Maybe then we can actually accomplish something.

Sick of fanatics

Chris - thank you dahling. Sometimes I really want to not say anything, but just can't:-)

Inna,

And you think the bill that Obama and this Congress who were trying to pass it before the August recess would have done anything to help your mother and you. I beg to differ.

And let's try not attacking the messenger and try attacking the facts of what is actually in the bill that the far left was trying to pass before anyone had a chance to read it.

Inna you are a wonderful writer but that does not make you an expert on what is in this bill.

Dispute facts!

Texas Congressman Kevin Brady Explains the Obama Health Care Bill

Another Dirty Little Secret in Obama's and the Far Left Liberal Government Healthcare Plan

A Must watch interview!! Those of you who are quiet conservatives, it is time to speak out!

Why also now that facts are coming out about what is actually in the bill that Obama and this Congress were trying to pass before the August recess are those on the left telling LIES and putting plants in their town hall meeting. Obama included.

Little girl at Obama town hall has not-so-random political connections

Jackson Lee is an embarrassment to the State of Texas!! Obama camp plants fake doc, Che fan at Jackson Lee forum by Matt Bramanti

:) I like it, Inna. As you probably know, I'm a fan of neither extreme... but the far right are a bit worse in my view. For entertainment purposes, I flip from Fox to MSNBC every night and it's like watching a Ping Pong match of ideals.

Me, I'm Moderate Left. Whatever side of the proverbial fence we are on, I do agree that I really wish we'd stick to issues and accomplish something. I can't understand how folks don't realize the not so subtle fear mongering going on. In four years, whatever happens, I can honestly say that the far right was just as bad (probably worse, it's still early) on President Obama than the far left was on President Bush.

By the way, stay away from my grandmother;)

Alice - I wouldn't have written this post if I didn't read your latest gem ( the title in the body is linked to it, in case you missed it). Thank you for simply reinforcing the whole point of this blog.

My dear Sardi - i, too, am no fan of any extreme, though at times I find entertainment in their respective battles. Sticking to the issues requires, at the very least, the willingness to think for oneself - I wish more of our brethren from all sides took it upon themselves to do that.

:-)

Sorry Inna,

Your point is what???

Lazy fear-mongering freaks? So, the 'meaningful discussion' starts here then, eh? Okay then.

My dear Alice - my point is you are buying into the fear mongering hook line and sinker and are out there battling windmills, right along with Michelle Malkin, Beck and the rest of 'inquirer' type 'reporters'. Some would call that brand of "journalism" laughable. I find it shameful. Sadder still that you find it effective.

Patrick - nope, it sure doesn't. This blog here is OBVIOUSLY my outburst at your outbursts. Sadly, the irony escapes those it's meant to address, but that, too, is ironic.

Alright then, Inna, I will try to control my outbursts. Can you give me an example of one of my outbursts, so I can recognize where I am losing it?

Patrick - "YOUR" was a broad reference to the crazy regurgitators, not you specifically. Of course, I am sure I could, in fact, address and even maybe disagree with something your wrote if you had written any blogs...:-)

My dear Inna,

So are you saying that it is OK for the US Congress to pass a bill without reading it?

Are you saying that I do not have a right to free speech to fight like hell to make sure that the President of the United States and the US Congress uphold the US Constitution.

And are you saying that they should not be held to the same fiduciary standards that I am held accountable to daily in my own business dealing.

Are you saying that the President of the United States of America is allowed to outright Lie to the American people and we do not have a right to question him.

Back to work. I must work hard so you can use my tax dollars for your free health-care that you feel you deserve. And that in the end will end up costing you dearly.

I'll make it really simple, Alice: Feel free to question the President and your elected officials, and yes, hold them accountable. Feel free to questions the merits of any bit of legislature, by all means - that's what we are supposed to do. Spewing brainless bullshit that schmucks on radio talk shows feed you as fact is what I have an issue with.

Case in point - No Freaking DEATH PANELS, Alice. No goveenment officials walking into homes of the disadvantaged mothers and indoctrinating their children in their leftist ways. But keep on reading into words what you want, Alice. It must be so damn hard for you to allow for a possibility that Obama may (just may) not be out to get you and.

Not usually one to share my political views but I will say is this:

First, find me ANY organized political event that isn't chock-full of people who support the "Main Event" (in this case, President Obama). The fact that that surprises anyone is astonishing to me.

Second, regarding Tuesday's Town Hall Meeting in Portsmouth: I was there. And I assure you that I am not a plant.

Third, I was not particularly impressed with the fact that a little girl was asked to participate at all. Whether it was planned two days or two minutes beforehand, I found it to be a tad too cutesy for such a serious issue. As far as her being the child of a stalwart Obama supporter, I refer you to my first point.

We are all responsible for doing our own "due diligence". Part of my due diligence was attending the Town Meeting in hopes of getting some clarification on some specific points I was not entirely clear on. (Some questions remain, but not as many as I had on Monday.) Seriously...if one honestly believes that the Democrats are trying to snuff out our elderly and ration our healthcare services, doesn't that warrant a bit more investigation on one's part? Furthermore, shouting over other people just to drown them out doesn't support a point, it obliterates it. It's childish, it's desperate, and it's paralyzing. We face very serious, very adult issues in this country. Let's give these issues the respect and mature attention and dissemination that they deserve rather than glomming on to whatever some high-paid infotainer suggests is "the truth".

To put it in terms that even a child would understand: Do Your Homework. Letting someone else do it for you is cheating, and cheaters never win.

Inna, there is one person who has commented who STILL does not understand, IT IS NOT THE BILL. THE bill is still being negotiated. THE bill will probably contain a lot less than the 5, yes count them, 5 proposed health insurance reform bills currently on the table. Those 5 proposed bills will be merged in some fashion. THAT person still does not get it, as do little old ladies and anyone who allows themselves to be fear mongered by the wingnut right. And you're right, THEY do no want YOU nor anyone else who cannot afford health insurance, to have what they have. They are of the "'I've got mine, screw you" group. Sorry to hear about your mom and your own health insurance woes. Good to see you back here girlfriend!

Kim - thank you for the well-reasoned and rational response. This blog was suffering from lack of these, the post itself notwithstanding:-)

Terry - that's what you cal 'details'. If anyone was actually discussing the bill, we'd all have something to talk about, but how do you rebut one's imaginary demons? :-)

Oh dear Alice,please don't feel any obligation to work hard on my lazy behalf - i am not out for any handouts:-) I'd like to pay for my medical insurance, thank you very much, just want to be paying towards actual care and services, you know, instead of paying for someone's yacht by successfully mitigating losses, associated with having to PAY for care.

Inna dear this is a well-reasoned and a rational response?

"Spewing brainless bullshit that schmucks on radio talk shows feed you as fact is what I have an issue with".

Why you sound like one of those far left wing Wackos with that kind of a response.

Now lets get to the issues at hand. As you and Terry may know, HR 3200 was placed under the jurisdiction of three House committees: Energy and Commerce, Ways and Means, and Education and Labor. All three committees have approved a version of HR 3200. So NOW is the time to question and find out what is actually being looked at in the House Bill. As I have said before the President and the Democrats were trying to push through this bill without anyone having an opportunity to actually know what is in the bill. Just because the Democratic leadership wrote a bill and called it "health care reform" does not mean that the bill will actually improve our health care system. Passing a bill simply to say that we have checked the box on health care could be highly detrimental to all Americans.

As an American I have a real problem with this. Not because I do not want some reform in our Healthcare system but because I want Congress to do something that will actually work.

As stated earlier, HR 3200 was referred to three different House Committees. As HR 3200 was discussed and debated in these committees, the original bill was changed and each committee approved its own version of the same bill. On top of that, two Senate Committees were given jurisdiction of a completely different bill. Despite attempts to rush the bill through the House by the Democrat Party, Congressional Committees still have not been able to agree on which version of the several different bills to use or how to merge them. THANK GOD!!

In any of its current forms, HR 3200 is fatally flawed. While some might be able to keep their current coverage, the requirements that insurance companies will be forced to meet will raise the premium prices for everyone, particularly those who are currently insured, which is counterproductive to what President Obama stated was his goal of lowering consumer health costs. HMMMMM here is a Lie! Others who receive health care through their employer may find themselves unwillingly switched from private health care to the public plan, as employers struggle to find ways to continue to provide health insurance to their employees. Many businesses, particularly small businesses, will find it cheaper to pay the fine under the bill than provide coverage.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO), a non-political organization under the legislative branch, estimates that by 2016, about 9 million people who are covered by an employment-based plan under current law would not be enrolled in an employment-based plan under HR 3200.

Under one provision of the bill commonly referred to as "Page Sixteen," the individual insurance market as we know it will be destroyed. It doesn't outlaw private insurance companies. However, no new policy holders may join the insurance pools currently in place and, in a few years, if your policy does not meet the new requirements, you must either pay an additional tax or switch to a plan that does. The vast majority of current plans in the individual market will not meet these standards; people will have to switch off their current plan or pay higher taxes. Ultimately, people who like what they have should be able to keep their plan, and this bill does not allow that to happen. OH my another LIE coming out of Obama's teleprompter.

HR 3200 also does not immediately address the problem of providing coverage for those who are currently uninsured. While this bill provides coverage to those uninsured who have pre-existing conditions this coverage will not come into effect until 2013. While it is possible that insurance companies will begin to cover these people out of "good faith," they will not be mandated to do so until the insurance requirements go into effect in 2013. This leaves a four-year gap for those who need this insurance immediately.

Regardless of an individuals coverage status, HR 3200 will add to the national deficit, which has already been strained by unprecedented spending from the recent bailouts and stimulus packages. The CBO estimates that, over the next 10 years, HR 3200 would increase federal deficits by $239 billion. The tax hikes and Medicare cuts (IE Death Squads, medical care rationing) this bill would put in place would decrease the $1.2 trillion price tag of this bill to the $239 billion figure. However, this number is not based on legislative language and doesn't include large parts of the bill that set aside appropriations.

The real issue occurs in Year 11, when the CBO's estimates end. The deficit will increase by a tremendous amount and Congress will have to figure out how to continue to fund this bill. Unless there are additional tax increases and Medicare cuts are put into place to the tune of over $100 billion a year. Both of these solutions are unappealing and would heap additional burdens on future generations.

Republicans have introduced numerous alternatives to HR 3200 including HR 3400, the Empowering Patients First Act, HR 3218, the Improving Health Care for All Americans Act, and HR 3520, the Patients' Choice Act. But this has been to no avail because the democrats did not want to hear from them as Obama stated himself. He was here to clean up the mess.

Since Governor Palin's statements were referring to fears that health care would be rationed and those who are acutely ill will have to go to the back of the line. Rather than address Governor Palin's concern, President Obama has decided to respond to a claim about euthanasia that she didn't make. Howard Dean was the one who lied about what Sara Palin stated because she didn't mention euthanasia.

Perhaps you are listening to the wrong talk radio and news organizations. Oh yea I forgot you are the great writer and journalist and that makes you an expert.

Inna, Love your post. I don't comment on political posts but really enjoyed reading this one. I have not read the proposed bill so don't really have an opinion yet.

I do know I pay almost $500 a month for my insurance. It doesn;t even cover TLW. Just me. And it only covers 80% of major medical. That's it. No prescriptions. No doctor visits. I spend $1,000+ a month on prescriptions for my wife and I!!!!

I'm open for anything that will help me to cut these costs.

Bryant, I encourage you to not just believe what Inna states or myself for that matter and do some research for yourself.

The proposed bills that have been approved in the committee stage in the House will not help you cut your costs!! If implemented you will be paying a huge amount in tax hikes in the end!!

Alice - I will only say this to your rather long and unsourced comment: if the insurance companies cannot meet the new requirements (which are pro-consumer, in my opinion), then they deserve to fail. For someone who supports the free market theory, it would stand to reason that new tighter requirements will only create healthy competition between private insurance carriers, as well as LOWER the costs of coverage. In what universe does five minute in the ER actually cost $540 dollars, Alice?

People who are paying for health insurance CANNOT afford to go see their doctors, and you are screaming about "death squads" that do not exist Alice. Sarah Palin's note, by the way, in its entirety was liked to from this post, and there is no way to misinterpret what she actually said. Has nothing to do with Dean - it's all her. I would only advise you to try to read with our eyes open, that's all.

Bryant - thank you, and yes something absolutely has to get done about the mess we call healthcare in this country. It's insane what people pay for minimal coverage nowadays, and even more insane how many can't get coverage of any kind, because they are sick or at the risk of being sick. Whatever happened to the idea that medical insurance is supposed the help us IF and WHEN we get sick?

Thank you for your comment, and best to TLW!

Alice, one more thing with your constant references to death squads and rationing: insurance companies right now will NOT insure you if you have a pre-existing condition, like cancer. You can't go to ER for something like a routine cancer check up - they don't do that. So, spare me the grim details of some bizarre Obama Death Squad deciding on who lives and who dies. Right now people are dying because they dont' have enough money to go to a doctor, Alice. And some of us are not ok with saying that "they'll be with God" when they die, like you did on a recent post of Terry's.

Hi Inna,

I know I can comment on your blog without being lambasted by you so just a few points

1) I have been advocating healthcare reform for years

2)I am not buying the whole argument about waiting for the final bill because if there wasn't an outcry of protest they would have voted on and passed it before anyone including congress read it

3)I think the biggest govt decision of our generation deserves a robust debate.

4) Regardless of mine, yours or anybodyelses opinion about the things we have read about or heard about in the proposed bills I am extremely disheartened that the three most powerful politicians in the country have all come out and insulted peole who would disagree and protest

5)As with any protest or disagreement there will always be those who take it a step too far but I believe there are many at these meetings who are just looking for the truth and by minimalizing all because of a few I feel the administration is destroying any chance we had for any reform.

Inna,

Maybe that is where you and I have such a challenge. I don't believe government should have the power to decide if one lives or if one dies.

That is why I don't have fear. I know God is in control and yes I pray daily for grace and forgiveness so that in the end I will be with my Wonderful and Everlasting GOD!!

And I thank God everyday that I live in America where I have the freedom to practice my faith whether you like it or not.

Link from 'The Fred Thompson Show' discussing Obamacare Bill requirement to meet with those on Medicare every five years for END OF LIFE COUNSELING . . . . read: YOU'RE NOW TOO EXPENSIVE, TIME TO GO!

http://fredthompsonshow.com/premiumstream?dispid=320&headerDest=L3BnL2pzcC9tZWRpYS9mbGFzaHdlbGNvbWUuanNwP3BpZD03MzUxJnBsYXlsaXN0PXRydWUmY2hhcnR0eXBlPWNoYXJ0JmNoYXJ0SUQ9MzIwJnBsYXlsaXN0U2l6ZT01

Editorial from IBD on Obamacare:

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548165656854

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? The "Science Czar" . . . the radio clip above begins to make perfect sense:

http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/columns/oped_contributors/Science-czars-support-for-eugenics-should-raise-eyebrows-50810307.html

What is national healthcare like in Jolly Olde England?:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1199714/A-9-month-wait-arthritis-treatment-Delay-mean-lifetime-agony-victims.html

Hugh - you absolutely can comment on my blogs anytime. And I agree with some of your points. I would like to see an actual discussion, a debate, if you will, on healthcare. I don't think that what is going on across the country at the Town Hall meetings is conducive to a viable discourse of any kind. Shouting over the speaker hardly ever accomplishes anything, and whether you shout the pledge of allegiance or anything else is largely irrelevant. The only thing it accomplishes is to quiet the conversation:-(

Alice - no one here is proposing nationalized care, and please please please read the bill itself as far as provisions for end of life consults, not some editorial interpretation of same. Medicare will be required to PAY for a consult of this nature every five years is what is actually in the proposed bill, not that seniors will have to have the consult every five years or at all.

See how easily you are swayed?

Inna, interesting that people here keep talking about rationing health care and denying treatment, as part of the PROPOSED health care reform,but those same people never address the fact that an estimated 22,000 people die in this country every year for lack of health care, either because they have no access or because their insurance company denies treatment. Case in point, the young girl who recently died just hours after her health insurance company finally relented and agreed to provide treatment for her cancer. Her parents had to go to court and sue them to get them to agree.

Hey all,

I went to a townhall meeting tonight here in NC. It was spririted discussion to say the least! Anyway, the deathers/screamers were outnumbered- their game is up. They have actually hurt their cause with the BS. They were maybe 4 of them in the audience and they left!

They brought up a lot of interesting points in the debate. And there were a lot of questions about soclalism, and death panels etc. Congressman David Price did a good job dispeliing most of the myths out there. Everyone agreed that the current system is a travesty. The insurance companies have abused people enough. And becuase they're so big, and the millions of people out there w/o insurance, they can take a dump on your poilcy if they want. They jack up your premuim. They can deny you treatment on the basis thats its going to affect their profit margins

Those are your Death Panels. They are ones who decide if you live or die. And we're worried if end of life care means that the government can pull the plug on grandma? I'd say grandma would want her plug pulled if she knew she spawned such stupidity.

Anyway- this progressive battle like all the others in the history of this great nation, will be fought in the trenches of activism. So to anyone who feels as strong on this issue and the rest of the issues that will benefit America (clean energy, equality, equality in the workforce, etc), you need to get out there and volunteer.

Inna,

You have such a gift when you write, and sometimes you use it so unwisely. And when you talk about your mom, you do not even understand what you are talking about. So, let me try to explain. When we came to Sloan Kettering Memorial Hospital to see the surgeon, we were accompanied by a friend of ours, who worked there dealing with fellows. He was s Ph.D in medical field and an MD. Supposedly he was pretty well trained back in the USSR, where, as you know, health was a government controlled business, as everything else.

When the surgeon came, he explained to her the whole procedure. HWat would be done and how it would be done, and what problems may arise and what to expect. While he was talking, I watched our friend, and he was standing there with a jaw dropped.

So later I asked him what surprised him. And he told me that not only he did not know that these type of procedures were done, he did not even think they were possible. The funny (if anything about cancer may be funny) is that they do about 12,000 such surgeries in the US, and they consider it a rather rare form of cancer here, but it is way more prevalent in the Soviet Union. So, how come a Ph.D and an MD, a chief surgeon in one of St. Petersburg hospitals, had no clue about it?

The answer is that this operation is a very time consuming and requires serious traiing and qualification. Because in the Soviet Union's nationalized health care was to serve everybody somehow, it has never been about doing what was needed for the patient. It was what the government would give, it was rationing, and the procedures like that were out of the practice... to the point that they were out of the text books.

that's why when the most important people in the great Soviet Union with their model health care system got seriously sick, they went to the west for treatment. And we are talking abut the elite, who was even in the Soviet Union getting a different helath care, not the same as masses. You may forgot that back in Russia when anything happened to you, your mom would not just take you to the hospital, but would call someone she knew, and who knew her, so that an idiotically simply thing would not turn deadly, like it often did. Like when you were, what, 10, and you needed a surgery, she arranged that a good one took you and care for you. Because the system did not care.

Your mom would die under the nationalized health care system, as my friend told me that they were doing a much simpler version, which would extend physical life a little bit with a complete loss of quality of life. And the extension was only working in 2% of cases. That would have been a death sentence. So you know what the chances the surgeon gave us? 50%. And your mom is with us for 9 years.

It is not whether we read the bill or not. It is the direction where we are going. So, Obama would get us there and we would be happy. We were not under Lenin, we were not under Castro, We were not under the great Korean Leader... It can't work this way, and many would die. It is not me, it is doctors that say that. So instead of patting yourself on the back for being so progressive, just think...

AUG

Also, people scream not because they are rude or republicans. They scream because they are not heard. Americans are not used to that, but hey, we better learn. BEcause it si all part of "sprinkling some socialism" onto capitalism.

I am also so surpised that you have such a strangely abberated memory. Remember your grandpa on your mom's side, when he was paralyzed and was in the hospital in Red junction? (I know that you were not there, but still). He was dying. He was dying in the Hospital and they could not do anything about it. Your mom and your aunt were sitting with him, cleaning the room (normal thing there), and the cheerful doctor wold stop by to see if everything was OK. But they did not treat him. In their books he was dead.

Do you know why he did not die then? Because your grandma on my side, who was a doctor, got the medication that he needed, but which was prohibited to be prescribed by the government for regular hospitals (party elite could get it, no problem) and regular patients. So my mom "got" that medicine and your grandpa survived.

You did not really experience the government health care the way it was for everyone else. Because your grandma and your mom knew better. So that now you could dream of what you were able to escape.

What a freaking metamorphose

First off, this extreme ideaology from the left and the right needs to find a subtle place in the sand and bury itself... one way or another.

While I don't agree, I'm impressed by Alice's response (not links) on all this crap that is going around. Jon Zolsky is profound and articulate, as usual.

Inna,

You are one of my favorite liberals, and I agree with you more than I don't.

Terrible thing about the Soviet Union's HC system. Thankfully, we will not be adopting that system here.

Greed got us here boys and girls. Once again, irresponsible capitalism (i.e greed) will lead to changes in the system. Blame it on the multi million dollar salaried CEOs and executives at the health insurance companies. They get paid off the misery of the American people and once again they have stepped out of bounds.

There's nothing like slinging mud in the eyes of the puppet masters.

Jon - I have no idea why you choose to believe that the plan calls for nationalizing healthcare - it doesn't. It calls for more stringent rules of practice for insurance companies, Jon, first and foremost - so that people can't be denied coverage. It caps increases. Read the proposals, Jon - nowhere in any of them is there a system you left behind, and nowhere in there is socialism, even a sprinkle of it.

Nogui - good to see you again, it's been a while:-) The deatheres/screamers being outnumbered where you were in NC is hopefully a good sign... They are certainly not outnumbered on this forum:-)

Jon - lastly, where exactly would mom be now if she DIDN"T have insurance at the time, and you know what it took her to be able to even go to the doctor. I call that abberation of memory on your part. Tell me that you are happy with the way things are here, as far as healthcare goes, because you are convinced that someday you'll be able to afford to pay what Bryant is paying for his... Please, humor me and tell me why it is ok for insurance companies to have a choice at not insuring your wife, so that she can get a basic freaking check up?

Keep listening to FOX, Jon - it seems to be doing wonders for your preception of the world you live in.

Hi Sardi:-)

Inna.

One point that Jon brings up which is important, we always need to question, at least we still have that right. At the age of 88 my grandmother was in a community hospital near alot of retirement villages, after talking to the doctor my mother and uncle were talking about funeral arrangements. Knowing that they were both ninnies I asked them if either had thought about a second opinion at Hackensack Medical Center (known for heart surgeries and close to where my uncle lived) as it turned out she had a quadrupple bypass and then at the age of 92 they put in a pacemaker, she lived until the age of 96. I am most fearful of the govt being able to take away decisions like that.

Inna I decided we should keep this post alive for a little longer so guess what You are featured in Silent Majority

So Mr. President what are we to believe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hsqzSKuC44

Inna, It is most definitely sprinkles of socialism. It is just brought about through lies and deception.

The Soviet Union had only 1 Czar Obama has 44 and counting. (Find Updated Czars here.)

The "Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009," the House health overhaul bill, creates the position of Health Choices Commissioner, or "Insurance Czar."

Health Care Bill Fact of the Day: Creating Another Federal ‘Czar'

The Insurance Czar would be appointed by the President to oversee the Health Choices Administration. This would be the 33rd federal ‘czar' appointed by President Obama since his January 20, 2009 inauguration.

The appointee would be responsible for establishing and regulating geographically-based Health Insurance Exchanges, determining what benefits and coverages must be included in health insurance plans each year, and assessing fines on employers and individuals who do not provide or acquire health insurance.

The Insurance Czar would also be responsible for regulating private insurers' marketing activities and use of funds, and for "promoting accountability" of insurance providers both within and outside of the Exchanges in "meeting Federal health insurance requirements."

Additionally , the Insurance Czar would be privy to individuals' tax return information, which he or she would use to determine who qualifies for federal subsidies to purchase insurance.

Source: HR 3200 §141-2

Wow, Hugh - thanks for the feature. As for the point you bring up, the thing that scares me now is that it's an insurance representative making these decisions for people (i.e. people with insurance, of course), not the doctors. Truly, doctors should be deciding with family and patients on the best course of action, but they aren't. I am not sure an insurance clerk who's job is to maximize losses to their employer is the best person for that job.

PS: The government will not be deciding on any it any differently now than they do with Medicaid and Medicare, and that's only for those who choose the public option, Hugh.

Hugh,

From what I gather President Obama does not want any questioning.

"I don't want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking," Barack Obama said on a campaign stop in Virginia on Aug. 6. "I want them just to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess."

Inna,

Now this would be fear mongering. LOL

I just could not resist!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNJl9EEcsoE

Alice - any agency assisting the needy now has access to personal financial information and tax returns. How would this be any different?

That was actually a joke.

Are you actually OK with the above link.

Now below is not fear mongering. This is fact. If you don't agree Inna debate the distortions coming from Obama himself.

President Obama made four claims Tuesday that don't pass the straight-face test.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/column-americans-arent-going-to-buy-health-care-spin-mr-president.html#more

• First, he said, "Under the reform we're proposing, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor," and "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan." USA TODAY's assessment of this statement: "Not necessarily." And the Associated Press and ABC News have proved this claim false, noting that White House officials have acknowledged the president's rhetoric shouldn't be taken "literally." That's because the White House cannot guarantee that Americans will be able to keep their health plan. They simply don't know how many employers will drop their coverage altogether if their plan goes into effect. Experts at the Lewin Group estimate the number could be more than 100 million Americans.

• Second, the president said, "I look at the federal budget and realize that if we don't control costs on health care, there is no way for us to close the budget deficit - it will just keep on skyrocketing." Yet according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, the House Democrats' bill would raise costs and the deficit by $239 billion over 10 years.

• Third, the president said, "We're not talking about cutting Medicare benefits." But one of the reasons seniors are so alarmed is that the plan would cut Medicare to the tune of $361.9 billion over 10 years. That means fewer choices and lower quality care - exactly what then-Sen. Obama blasted during his campaign.

• Finally, the president claimed the plan will not lead to rationing. But the bill, on page 30, section 123, would create a "Health Benefits Advisory Committee" that would make determinations about what kinds of treatments, items and services can be covered within certain benefit classes, and what kind of cost sharing will occur.

Interesting more inaccurate information from President Obama.

CHICAGO-"The American College of Surgeons is deeply disturbed over the uninformed public comments President Obama continues to make about the high-quality care provided by surgeons in the United States. When the President makes statements that are incorrect or not based in fact, we think he does a disservice to the American people at a time when they want clear, understandable facts about health care reform. We want to set the record straight."

Read the rest of the story here. http://www.facs.org/news/obama081209.html

I would not say I am fear mongering Inna. Can the President please get the facts straight!!

Alcie - I would imagine that by now your fingers probably hurt from all the copy and paste. Please, stop referencing OpEd pieces as fact (they are not), and pulling your data from youtubes of years ago. I welcome a discussion, but copying and pasting other's opinions doesn't really count.

Your own original thought, however, if fine.

PS: Yep, you are right, since Obama can't pass a law that's going to prevent employers from being able to change plan, his promise that we could keep our current insurance must necessarilly have been false. Great sense of logic there, Alice. Now, let's see. Why would anyone switch the a public option if there is such a thing. Let me think... Hmmm.... Oh yeah, i got it - "if it's more affordable and gives better coverage" - evil I tell you.

see http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/08/14/2009-08-14_president_obama_offers_a_fairy_dust_rx_to_save_his_dying_health_care_plan.html

Inna,

The differece between you and I is that I give my opinon and then give back-up as to how I formed my opinion. I am not the amazing writer that you are. But I also don't think I know it all so I give information to others so they can reserach and form their own opinion.

Just an FYI the last link was not an Op-ED it was a statement from the American College of Surgeons. You know those evil doctors who make so much money.

About the American College of Surgeons
The American College of Surgeons is a scientific and educational organization of surgeons that was founded in 1913 to raise the standards of surgical practice and to improve the care of the surgical patient. The College is dedicated to the ethical and competent practice of surgery. Its achievements have significantly influenced the course of scientific surgery in America and have established it as an important advocate for all surgical patients. The College has more than 74,000 members and is the largest organization of surgeons in the world.

Web site: www.facs.org

Kenneth - yet another link to an OpEd piece - anything you, yourself would like to say?

Alice, yep, poor sob president screwed up by quoting incorrect amounts when it comes to what surgeons charge - let's hang him. I do know who they are, I read the same exact description on their site.

Here is a bit of friendly advice, Alice - stop with the routine of highjacking other people's blogs with little more to add to the discussion than copy and paste in your comments, and engage in a conversation. If you want to offer nothing more than what someone else has written - you can always do so on your own blogs.

Inna,

This is not the originality or creativity contest. It is not whose opinion would beat the crap out of others. This is not a game.

The guy is trying to change the course of history and you do not need to play opinions game here, It dow not mean how nice one or another peice of socialism is. This is a dangeous thinking.

Socialism, and any serious approach to it is not about choices, and I do not need to know the particulars of it. North Korea is very different from Russia, and very different from Cuba, but it is enough for me to know their basic principals, and I can tell you what their health system would be, or, better say, how people would leave under those regimes.

So, you can pride yourself in originality and reading the details of the proposal, but it is like trusting everything a criminal tells you.

Lenin was as engaging as Obama and people loved what he said. But nobody loved what he did. Do not listen to what Obama says, look at what he does.

OK my dear here is some original thought.....

Why was Obama trying to ram this Healthcare bill through Congress without real debate and reform that will actually work.

Why are smart people like you who are such good writers and communicators not demanding factual information and reform that may actually work. What is your agenda??

Public Option-Well it may very well not be a public option. You see while Obama is saying

"First of all, if you've got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you." then he is forced to admit during a press conference http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7909216 he doesn't literally mean that you are guaranteed to be able to keep your health care plan.

Yes a public health care option is less expensive since profit is not a concern and overhead is lower - Because of this you might find the company you are working for is forcing you into that public plan.

Well Inna that public plan that I am forced into SUCKS, and I have no other options.

You see Inna the The Lewin Group, a health care policy research and management consulting firm, has estimated that up to 70 percent of us with private insurance would end up on the public plan.

So what I take from this is that while Government will not force you into a public plan so they call it an option, government will create a situation where such a thing would happen.

OK now how is he going to offer this public healthcare plan at such a great cost.

Well he will cut medicare benefits and raise taxes!! OH but I thought he would not raise taxes on 95% of the American people. Well that is just another misstatement. Or should I be so bold to call it what it is. A LIE!!

Sorry Inna I am not game!! Did you actually read what your Dad wrote.

The haves got the medical attention and care they needed. The have nots well they went to the back of the line.

Those doctors well they become like your Dad's friend and the amazing medical advances we enjoy in the United States of America are gone.

Jon - your constant generic accusations of every bit of this administration's work as socialism is just as factless and ridiculous as the talk of death panels - and truly, it's gettig somewhat tiresome. You got it into your head somehow that we are turining into North Korea or Russia, and it seems it's clouding your vision some. Goverments in EACH country control certain segmets of their industries and economies, Jon - find one where that's not the case. This country has had its social programs for a very long time. It also has a huge number of fed-controled agencies, always had. So why do you have your panties all in a bunch over Health Care reform? Where the hell did you read anything about nationalizing it?

Inna,

Listen to your Dad he has lived it and knows the truth.

Jon, thank you for being a voice of experience and wisdom. It is truly appreciated!!

Alice - I read the links you referenced. You selective reading practices amuse me. If your employer's insurance provides care that's subpar, too expensive or doesn't not conform to new (pro-patient) standards, your employer would be stupid to keep it. Problem is right now employers who do provide medical insurance are bound by few options that are run by monopolies for the most part and whose plans are all interchangeably bad for the people. If there is an option that the private plans have to compete with, why would you, a capitalist, be against it. As for profits, Alice, I have no problem with companies making a profit but not at the cost of human lives. You seem ok with it, cause, well, those who were too broke to be healthy will simply be with God. I don't believe in your God or his wisdom if he chooses those worthy of life based on the size of one's pocketbook.

No Alice, he has not live it. He lived what he thinks we are trying to do, in much the same way every Fox news follower tends to. Turn off your Glen Beck once in a while - it might help you think from multiple prespectives, if you have that gift.

Real debate Alice? Which party is the one that does not want REAL debate? Which party has walked out of the negotiations? I certainly do not expect you to acknowledge the fact that it is your party that has done both. Your elected legislators don't want to talk, they want to spin health care reform to the base, so it looks exactly the way you present it. Fortunately the base is only about 20 something % of the American populas. The rest of the people "get it."

Inna, educating the uneducated does get tedious doesn't it?

Actually Obama and crew have done such a fine job of getting there point across that 52% of Americans are against the plan as of now. The administration has been contradicting itself with far too much regularity. Even if you don't buy the townhall protests congressman are back home , in their neighborhoods, their churches, their clubs, with their state advisors and fundraisers, the only chance we have for any reform is if they go back to Washington, scrap what they have so far and start again.

Those of you who know me know that there is one singleitem that keeps me from endoring a plan no matter what else it says but I truly do want health care reform I just don't believe that what they have been working on has anything to do with reform.

Hugh - sadly, you are correct in that the dems have not done a good job of getting their point across. It appears that the extreme right's ability to intimidate has cut some balls off of those we elect to represent our best interest, hence the provisions for end-of-life consults are not gone, sadly.

Oh well, at least Sarah Palins of the world will be thrilled that there won't be "death panels" that we weren't gonna have anyway.:-)

Inna,

I just have a few questions.

Do you have a problem with Obama and this Congress trying to ram the healthcare bill through without anyone reading it?

Do you have a problem with the lies that Obama has told to the American People?

Do you have a problem with Obama's associations with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Rashid Khalidi, Tony Rezko, and if you do not why don't you?

My dear Alice - there is no rationale in your questions. I have a problem that you are still harping on the same old rhetoric of questionable associations. I am frankly surprised you didn't bring his birth certificate into this.

Terry - tiresome it is, indeed.:-)

I guess Inna you are like Obama and don't want to answer the tough questions Americans are asking.

WHY!! What is the agenda?

Alice - you have not asked any questions. What you do is throwing your general accusations around and referring to tem as tough questions. In reality, they are not questins at all. I don't have a problem with those whom Obama associates with now or ever has before.

Let me ask you this: do you have a problem with the Bush family association with certain Saudi's? Just checking. I don't have an agenda, Alice. I just grow increasingly frustrated at the crap you throw out there as fact, and hope for cheerleaders.

If you want answers to actual questions, you just might have to do some research of your own, Alice, instead of relying on what you believe to be unbiased reporting. So by all means, ask away, when and if you have a question that merits a response.

So Inna,

You do not have a problem with Obama and this Congress trying to ram this Healthcare bill through without anyone actually reading it before they vote?

That is a guestion pure and simple.

Do you have a problem with the lies that Obama has told to the American People?

That is a question pure and simple.

And let me get this straight you just stated that you do not have a problem with those whom Obama associates with now or ever has before.

That tells me quite a bit about you dear.

Alice, in order for one to answer these "questions" one would have to agree with the premise already in them, logically speaking. I don't, hence, these are akin to asking someone what they think of beating up their wife when they have don no such thing.

There are books in the library, maybe even in your neck of the woods, that deal with asking quesions, geared to people who want to become reporters and such. I recommend you find one and read it. It might shed some light on what appears to be a very confusing subject for you at the moment.

OK Dear Inna,

I am just a regular old American. No schooling or experience like you educated elite folks.

1. Do you want congress to read bills before they vote on them. If not why?

2. Do you want the President of the United States to tell the truth. If not why?

Alice - you go girl!

22,000 Americans Die Each Year For Lack Of Health Care We need you over here.

Inna -

Whether you realize it or not, your evasion of Alice's simple and legitimate questions makes you come across as someone not at all interested in a real debate over HR3200.

Some answers you might consider:

"It's perfectly understandable why they wanted to move the bill through quickly. As we've seen, the delay has given the insurance corporations the time to organize opposition to the bill using scare tactics and half-truths propagated via FOX NEWS and Republican talk radio. Unfortunately, it's created a perception that plays right into the hands of the insurance corporations. In retrospect, the emphasis on dispatch caused more problems than it solved."

"I have a problem whenever information is presented to the public that is not 100% correct, but I object to your characterization of our President's statements as 'lies.' That's quite an accusation to make against our own President. A LIE is an untruth told with the knowledge that it is untrue. If someone followed you around all day and recorded everything you said under heavy questioning, I bet you'd make some mistakes once in a while. Does that make you a liar, or just a human being?"

"Perhaps I'd prefer to live in a world led by wise angels who only associated with other wise angels--or maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I'd prefer to live in a world led by real human beings, who associate with an variety of other real human beings from a variety of walks of life. Yes, Barack Obama's circle of acquaintanced includes some gritty characters who lived on the receiving end of open institutionalized racism and still carry the scars of it. And yes, Barack Obama's circle of acquaintances includes some folks who perhaps got a little caught up in the revolutionary spirit of the 1960s. At the same time, his circle of friends includes some of the most solidly establishment figures in our society, including many conservatives and Republicans. So, to answer your question, do I wish that Barack Obama only encountered mainstream suburban types on his path through life? Actually, no, I don't think I do wish that."

Jayne - that was a very useful comment. Yep, you need all the help you can get.

Ken - well, thank you Sir, thank you very much. Yes, I might have consiered those answers, and I might have even agreed with them if I had any desire to perpetuate this line of dialogue with Alice. I was and am interested in discussing the proposed health care reform, not Obama's previous or current associations, or anything he may have ever said that turned out not to be true. But I see your point, Ken.

Thank you for stopping by.

Yawn

Jayne - I am not in a habbit of being rude to my commenters, but are you freaking for real? That's truly classy, Sherlock.

habbit

Now that's classy.

Jayne - thank you sooooooo very much for catching my typo. I am much obliged. God knows these awful misspells and typos could haunt me forever. Again, much appreciated. Now, if you don't mind, you ought to probably consider revisiting that other post you were unleashing your perfect English on and edit some of the rather atrocious uses of apostrophes and such. You also have this rather irritating habit of using the wrong tense/form of certain verbs and adverbs, but it would be simply impolite to nitpick at this point.

Not one of my usual reading stops but there is an interesting story for a liberal over at Salon.com by Camille Paglia

Hugh - thanks for this interesting read reference. BTW: you know it's perfectly ok to link to article from my blog comments - I am really not a stickler if it'll make it easier for people to find the info:-)

Hugh, you aren't reading Salon are you? There is still hope for you BFF!

Hugh is a good man, Terry, hence there was always hope for him:-)

Inna,

There diffference between us is that you look at the beginning and I look at the end. Socialism did not start with atrocities, it turend into them. Hitler was the most popular figure, before he became despised so much. And in that sense there is no difference between them. Because the cahnge comes when you can't make the ideas work, and then there are tons of ways to force people to feel happy about crappy things.

You are looking at flowers and enjoy their beauty. I am afraid I know the fruits, and they are very bitter.

Well, you are young, and I am not. Reason enogh for you to be hyped, and me being not young is reason enough to not to be hyped.

I am leaving, as the tone gets somewhat over the board.

Ken,

So the government should do things quickly, so that there could be no opposition. And that insurance companies can manipulate the nation better than even Obama? This is so childish...

Inna,

how could you read this and not stumble? Don't you find it interesting that there is somebody that knows what we need, and all he need is to shove it up our throats quickly, so that the subject do not have the time to figure what has been done to them. This is a classic example of how the socialist system operated. You say I am paranoid. Look into the mirror. If you read the BS like that and you are so happy, wow

Jon, truly this whole comparing Obama to Hitler is ridiculous in the extreme. Either one of the architects of the last 8 years would make for a much more apt comparison:-)

Inna,

I would be scared shitless if I knew you were going to be next to me in a foxhole.

Ross the REALTOR®

Jon - I don't think it's about the speed at which it's jammed up your throat. The vast majority of useful debate on this subject is coming from people that have read the bill, and there's the difference... You can read the bill.

I think we can all agree that affordable healthcare is worth reading the 1000 or so pages, no? Apparently not. It's far easier to flood the airwaves with half-truths and total crap, but why? What's the point of shooting this down? Why is the right trying ti kill this legislation rather than contribute to an actual solution to the issue. An issue that over 50 million of your fellow Americans really need to see solved?

The right believes that this administration's failure to pass this bill will end the Obama Presidency. This is politics. It's not the killing of Jews, or socialism. Its politics of the worst kind, and it's all happening on our dime.

The majority of the right is talking more about what wrong with the bill than how to fix it. This tells me they're on the wrong side of this issue... AGAIN!

Read the bill. Heck! Write a new one that accomplishes the goal. DO SOMETHING!!! Or are you content with your current healthcare?

America thanks you for your contribution. :)

PS - If you honestly believe that "Hitler" could happen on American soil, I can't imagine why you would call this "the greatest country in the world". Is it that you only have faith when your boy is at the helm? "Dick in 2012"? I don't think Obama is perfect. I don't think he's always right. But I know he's trying to solve a real problem. One we ALL need to see solved.

Please America!!! Let's fix this once and for all! Yes we can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Ross - so am I being too conspicuous for your taste, or is this a strange reference to something else I am missing entirely?

Jon - thank you for jumping in and actualy saying something:-) Now, I don't know if i'd go around calling people idiots per se, but hey, to each their own. I am sure Alice is a big girl (not a weight reference, i swear) and can take care of herself. If not, there is always the twins following her around.:-)

I know Inna - You're right. Alice: I apologize for that. Seriously. It was uncalled for and completely inappropriate.

I would, however, love to know why it's ok for Cheney to lie about WMDs, ultimately causing a war that cost American families their children, but the "lies" Obama tells for the sake of American Health Care are somehow more offensive.

What is so wrong about paying less money for quality healthcare? Why are they comparing this plan to Canada, Hitler, and jamming things up your thoat? Does every Righty have stock in major insurance or Beyer?

It makes me angry. But I was wrong, and I'm sorry. :( I'll go sit in the corner.

Well, Jon - that's what I call classy:-)

AUG

Jon,

That was quite rude. I would reference you to my latest Gem.

It is called "Let the Debate Begin""

By the way how are you feeling about the doubling of troops in Afghanistan. Obama sent 17,000 additional combat troops to Afghanistan

That war machine under Bush has actually grown under Obama. As if occupying Afghanistan and Iraq wasn't trouble enough, now we're moving into Pakistan

As I see it corruption in Washington is rampant.

The best way to add competition to health insurance companies is to allow them to compete in all 50 states. This is not allowed now. For example it is against the law for the NAR to offer health care to its 1.2 million members as a group!

Another way is to put caps on the amount you can sue a doctor for being a bad doctor. Before you say what a bad idea that would be let me remind you that a panel of Drs, Hospital Administrators, lawyers and a person appointed by the federal government will decide if that life saving operation will take place. They will be putting a number on your value and medical history.

There are only 3 ways to make this thing break even as obama says. Reduce the pay for Doctors, reduce care for people or raise taxes on everyone.

obamas approval numbers are allready lower than George W. Bush at this period and the 3rd lowest of all presidents just wait until he signs this bill and taxes the middle class!

Hi Inna,

I figured you'd start quite a storm conversation with your blog and boy did you! I'm sorry for your situation. I agree that the affordability is certainly a big part of the problem. I don't care for what the administration is posing, but I'm not sure what the answer is. I think I have an idea developing though.

Anyways, I love that you're not afraid to speak your mind!

For some reason, fixing the insurance issue with a 1000 page document simply doesn't make sense to me. Why not just address the actual 4-5 serious problems and simply fix those instead? Tort reform, government madates for a zillion different often unnecessary items, high malpractice insurance for doctors and hospitals, charging the insured one rate and the uninsured a much higher rate, etc.

Alice - you do realize it's rather uncool for you to link from my blog to your posts in an effort to get my readership to read your gems...

PS: Jon apologized for his rudeness - it would have been only gracious of you to acknowledge it.

Bob - hi and thank you! The storms conversations tend to develop all on their own:-) All it takes is s few well placed expletives, apparently- When you figure out how to fix the health care mess, please let me know. Maybe the ideas of those not elected to govern and legislate will hold more merit. I am all for it!

Larry - right now administrator, lawyers and panels for the insurance carriers decide what procedures and life saving measure should be and how much they should cost. I agree with you that insurance companies should be 'allowed to compete', but can't quite see any of them now volunarily dropping the practices of either denying coverage or charging less for policies. The inherent need to jack the profits will always outweigh the desire to provide a service, and for as long as they can deny care or charge exhorbitant fees for it - they will. That's where some form of regulation has to step in, IMHO.

Rob - because by the time everyone gets their hands on a piece of paper, it grows exponentially every time it's touched. I doubt the final bill will be smaller than 1000 pages. I am only hoping it will be something that makes sense.:-)

Bwahahahahahhahahhahaha @ Alice - are you actually complaining about the troop levels in Afghanistan?

I say teh world has truly turn upside down when the warmongers are complaining about the escalation of war. Which btw, is clean up for the disastrous Bush/Cheney foreign policy. How's the War on Terra working out for you, Alice? Still a staunch supporter? lol... had to get that one in there. I was of course refering to one your comments on one of your blogs refering to your support of the "War on Terrorism"

Inna, agreed. The insurance industry has a fiduciary responsibility to their sharholders and profit margins and CEO bonuses. Under the current model, these are the Death Panels. You live and die based on their profit margins. These vampires have been pulling not only grandmas's plug, but the sick and the people with pre existing conditions for years.

Inna, Jon is right about the evils of socialism- disclaimer-I copied this from another blog, not my own. I thought you might get a kick out this.......

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and tTechnology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issed by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to ny house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

The only reason government doesn't work is because conservative Republican administrations defunded and/or patronage staffed them with people with ties to special business interests: to wit the last FDA, Dept of Interior and Agriculture under Bush. No one seems to have a problem with pumping over $500Bil to the Defense Department which last I hear is a socialized entity.

Nogui - that's too funny. Thanks for sharing. :-)

Nogui_ Seriously I wouldn't mind if everyone of those agencies besides the defense department were disbanded. most of them are inefficient and very few would stand up to a constitutional test.

I totally agree Hugh.

I do apologize to Inna for linking my post. I will remove the link but I would ask that you try listening to the video. You might actually learn something.

Have a great weekend.

Alice

Inna,

Why are you tolerating unacceptably rude comments? I think they should be deleted immediately. Name calling should not have place on AR. I have not seen it anywhere on AR, except for this blog.

AUG

Hi Inna - you usually make sense, but I seriously think you are missing the entire problem here. It is not what is or is not in whatever Bill is ultimately voted on (and hopefully defeated!). It is where that road leads. Whether you like it or not, once Government gets involved in something, it never DECREASES its interest - always INCREASES. If we pass any kind of health Bill that involves a government option, then we ARE on the road to a single payer system (which is what the President has repeatedly says he wants) and that is a road we clearly should not travel. Tune in tomorrow (Monday) 6-am - 9am on 540 WFLA where I am guest hosting the breakfast show. You might find it very interesting.

Hugh and Alice, so basically we should dismantle America, becuase our government can't do anything efficiently?

Under this primitive mindset, it'd be a wonder how humanity formed tribes or even nations.

Nogui~Sounds like a good idea to me.

I know!

AUG

Nogui wrote: Those are your Death Panels. They are ones who decide if you live or die. And we're worried if end of life care means that the government can pull the plug on grandma? I'd say grandma would want her plug pulled if she knew she spawned such stupidity.

This might be the best comment I've read so far this month. Man, that is fantastic! Hahahahaha!!!

Jon Zolsky - if people choose to be rude on my blog - that's their prerogative. I don't censor my comments. Most people on AR have learned that about me by now:-)

Hugh - of course you would. :-)

Alice - I did watch the video. Learn something from you every day, just not what you learn from the same information... I guess maybe we were not all created equal after all.

Tchaka - he is a pretty darn funny guy!

My dear Simon- but it is precisely about what is and, just as importantly in this case ISN'T in the bill or proposal at this stage. That's why we elect our representatives in Governement, no? Or am I so far behind on the civics lesson?

what not a feature???? ;-) well let me tell you - as a canadian - watching from the other side of the 'divide'........i'm bemused and not a little confounded. I could reiterate your thoughts - but no need to - I agree. I've been listening to this debacle and lost respect for not a few people. Coming from Croatia......and seeing first hand what kind of insanity can prevail on an ongoing basis - leading to...???? I have to admit - American - or not - none of us appear to be exempt from the bizarre? I also have to laugh when our Canadian 'socialized' medicare is brought up. What the heck? I can just say - we can walk into any emergency room, clinic, dr.'s office, specialist... and not have to pay anything. I've had several friends diagnosed with cancer - and they've been put in treatment faster then you could blink an eye. God forbid we would have something - a model to offer that might actually improve you're current state of affairs.

You have my humble agreement.:-)

Liz - to my surprise this was actually featured for a little while (courtesy of Hugh Krone) in the Silent Majority group:-)

I think you are the first Canadian on AR to say (publically, that is) anything good about your model. The fears, such as they are, sadly to be of the incurable kind, the kind based on predictions of some alternative reality, the kind spawned by fear of scary sounding words, and not in the least bit by anything in the actual proposed bills. That saddens me. But maybe, just maybe, we all do get what we deserve - considering the administration's and polititians' in general need to pander to the "average American" - whatever that entity might be. How else do we explain the dems removing "the dreaded death panels" from the proposal.

Sorry for the rant, Liz -and thank you. Your comments, as someone living with HEALTH CARE, truly do mean a lot! :-)

AUG

Inna - I just came across this post today - looks like a lot of lively discussion above (understatement?). I certainly can't claim to understand the entire bill being debated, but I do have a couple of hopes:

That I can get affordable health care at some point before I get too old - Right now, we pay about $1300/month for our insurance, which is not that great. I consider it "catastrophic" in nature.
That the skyrocketing cost of medical care in this country can be reigned in somewhat

I don't state these things as a liberal (I am not) or as a conservative (I probably am), but as a person who cares about his family and providing for their needs. I am open to any ideas that will actually result in a positive change.

Jason - I hope that all of us, once we get over the fears and prejudices, such as they are, want to be able to keep our families safe. There is no overstating the sense of uncertainty that many face when it comes to healthcare right now - the bills are indeed unafordable by to the very few at the top or the bottom. This is less, in my mind, about those who lack insurance than it is about the entirety of the system as a whole and the millions and millions of people who have insurance, but never really feel the benefit of having one.

As a civilized society, or one that purports to be one, we have to do something, so that people don't have to choose between feeding their kids or keeping them healthy. :-)

Thx for visiting-

Hi Just Wonderin' who can't put your real face or name behind your comment. Really, we are making fun of someone for being thin? I thought that was the American Dream?

We ARE concerned with the health care crisis. That's Inna's point.

It has what to do with Real Estate? Realtors, home stagers, loan professionals, etc., and their children also deserve health care.

It's bi-atch, fyi.

Inna,

I am asking this question not to pick a fight I just am wanting to have a debate on real issues.

Why is it that this administration has not seen it important to fill a key position in our government when healthcare is such a huge issue. Yet he has appointed 46 Czars with 8 more on the way. Czars which by the way answer only to him and not to Congress or the public. Complete Listing of Obama's Czars

Obama has not filled the position of Director of the of CMS (Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

Observers puzzled over Obama's failure to appoint CMS head

Though President Obama has repeatedly said that Medicare and Medicaid costs are the "biggest threat" to the nation's financial future, to the surprise of everyone in politics, he still hasn't named a new head for CMS. After years of struggles, the agency needs lots of changes, and once Obama appoints new a head, that leader could be making those changes and expanding the agency's role.

Read more: http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/observers-puzzle-over-obamas-failure-appoint-cms-head/2009-08-18#ixzz0OhDU7DRN

AUG

Inna, I couldn't agree with you more. I've gotten involved in so many email arguments with friends and even CLIENTS that I have finally just sworn to stop even trying to convince these people to learn before they pass on the ridiculous lies and scare tactic emails.

It also amazes me to hear so-called Christians talk about the "illegal alien" crap. Not only is it not true, but even if it were, aren't Christians supposed to be CHARITABLE? Would you have these Mexicans die on the street instead of being treated when they get sick? They already ARE being treated, besides. In the hospitals, usually for free, and driving up the cost of medical care even more. But again, I give up.

What I have done is construct an email with most of the lies listed and links to the Snopes.com pages that correct and dispute the lies. Everytime I get forwarded an email with the stupid euthanasia story and the other ones on it, I forward THIS email to every single one that got that one. It's about stopped them from sending the crap to me if nothing else. You might want to try that too. Here's the email...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/platform.asp Bill Cosby did NOT write that stuff about him being a candidate, and says much of that is abhorrant to him. Neither was it written by Robin Wiliams or George Carlin. Just MADE UP.

http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/clunkers.asp Your computer does not become government property from going to the Cash for Clunkers or cars.gov website, as erroneously and ridiculously reported by Fox's Glenn Beck. In the first place, the CONSUMER does not use the website, the car dealership does. In the second place, it was some kind of poorly written standard government privacy notice that has since been corrected.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/euthanasia.asp The new Health Care proposal does NOT require seniors to have counseling every 5 years on how to die. What it DOES offer is that Medicare will pay (no more often than every 5 years) for any senior to discuss with his doctor what his treatment preferences are, should he become infirm. In other words, how to do a LIVING WILL. COMPLETE LIE.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/petition.asp Illegal aliens are NOT going to get social security. Never did...the bill they refer to in the rumor is from 2006, and first had Bush's name on it. Even THAT bill was nothing to do with giving them SS money. In fact, it was to prevent illegals that had obtained legal status from getting credit to the SS THEY PAID IN AS ILLEGALS. The Social Security Admin actually admits that illegals have paid in as much as $7 billion in SS tax that they are unable to receive benefits for. If you pass on this petition, you might as well tell the world how foolish you are. THIS LIE HAS BEEN GOING AROUND FOR NEARLY 4 years now!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/seniordeath.asp The proposed health care plan does NOT ration care for the elderly. The actress Natasha Richardson didn't die because of Canada's socialized medicine, and England does NOT prevent elderly people from having heart bypasses and stents. It was mentioned that Medicare might start dis-allowing some cosmetic procedures and things that are not required. A Bloomberg article entitled, Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan by Betsy McCaughey quoted one line from Tom Daschle and (as usual) completely misled and made up the rest. Please read the above and maybe just a FEW of these stupid chain emails will stop adding to the rest of the spam we get every day.

If everyone would stop and check on these things before they forwarded them, it would go a long way towards putting a stop to it.

Thank you. Jan

Wow ... (for lack of a better word)...

I don't know which healthcare system is best... there may be one out there that I'm not aware of, but at this time, I wouldn't trade ours for any others.

Whether I have the flu, break my leg, get cancer, go into the emergency room for anything at all ...

.... or have 63 doctor's appointments, 8 hospital visits, 16 ultrasounds, 4 scans, 12 sets of blood tests.... as I have in the last 8 months, I can tell you that not having to pay for any of it, and not have to wait months to be seen, is a huge relief - not just to my nerves, but to my bank account.

Maybe it's not the best healthcare system in the world, but I'll take it, any day...

For those of you who weren't here, when Natasha fell and then declined treatment, she died because first of all she chose not to wear a helmet, to practice a sport she had never practiced before, and when the ambulance first arrived, she didn't want to go to the hospital. She refused to go, because she insisted she felt fine. Obviously, when she finally did go, it was too late.

I think the use of helmets should be mandatory, and unfortunately, someone usually has to die, before that happens .... but our healthcare system had nothing to do with her death.

This was an unfortunate accident, one that could have been prevented, had people not made bad choices to start with, and had people not been given a choice as to whether or not they should go to the hospital. If you fall and you hit your head, ALWAYS go to the hospital, but before that, ALWAYS wear a helmet, especially if you're a novice, at a sport that can be dangerous.

Inna, I'm sorry I chose your post to talk about Natasha, but I've read so many posts about her death, and the fact that had she not been here, she wouldn't have died, that I just had to say something.

Just wonderin' - did you just call me a bitch on my blog? I don't censor comments, as most people here know, so I am leaving yours be, but I am curious how one can have enough balls to call the author a bitch on their blog, and yet no balls whatsoever to put their name to the attempted insult.

Chris - thanks for pointing out the proper way to curse to Just wondering:-) MWA-

Alice - I do not know the answer to your question. Actually, let me rephrase it. I am not sure that the administration has not deemed it "IMPORTANT" enough, as you put it, but I do not know why the position has not been filled. See, asking the latter question makes you seem marginally unbiased whereas the former presumes the answer already, as it is accusatory in nature.:-)

Jan - so happy to have met you:-) Gosh, that's brilliant (of course most rught wing fanatics don't believe that Snopes is unbiased, but still, it would certainly save some time while addressing the stupidity:-)

Thank you!!!!

Just wonderin'

Don't you just love America....where any idiot can say anything they want and stoop to name calling instead of a rational debate and then hide behind a stupid name because they are really cowards trying to feel self important.

Sylvie - thank you for jumping into the discussion that almost always involves insults at the Canadian healthcare system. Between you and Liz - it's great to have some light shed on it by people actually living with it.

As for Natasha - it really was an unfortunate accident. Sadly, with these types of injuries it is quite common to not feel any ill effects shortly after, calm before the storm sort of thing. As someone who managed to hurt her fat cranium a few times, I will say doesn't matter how great you feel, if you hurt your head - go to the doctor. It can be deadly. Of course, it would help if one could afford to go to a doctor for a mild concussion, but that's another story. Go to the ER if you must:-)

Thanks again!

Inna,

I do concede that I am accusatory with regard to this administration.

I question the 46 Czar positions being a priority to run the government with him having complete control. Verses using the process requiring checks and balances that has made our Country work with regard to the 3 branches of Government.

This is just an observation of how he is using backdoor methods to gain control.

Inna,

great Blog, I agree fully- this healthcare system is broken. Although I have good health care through my company many do not including several family members of mine. My wife and I are very big Obama fans. I really think its a breath of fresh air to have a president that cares about his people and is willing to fight. Let the Palins and Joe Six Packs of the world scream all they want, they are now the minority. I will keep you in mind for future printing- I play in band and do have future printing needs.

A) I think 'Just wondering' is insanely jealous of Inna's good looks. Aren't we all?

B) Arguing with people who listen to Rush or Glenn Beck about this stuff is just too aggravating. I would suggest that they simply continue to hand over their paychecks to corporate America, and get crapped on in return. And I suggest that those of us on the side of 'healthcare that makes sense' stop wasting our time and energy trying to convince them otherwise.

C) Nothing is going to 'change', so we have to lobby our states to get something done if we want it to happen. Corporate interests have a strong-hold on our government. Our government is too chicken shit to do anything meaningful. Get corporate money out of Washington!

Inna - I think he misspelled "biotech".

I have seen a bit of shit flying on this whole mess and as with most political issues I don't get very involved. It the "brains" in Washington had any sense they would learn to implement policies in smaller easy to understand sections year after year instead of always trying to ramrod a 1000 pages of pork through so urgently that no one knows what it contains.

On another subject... Did you highjack a biotech post recently? Just wonderin'

Justin - thank you! I don't tend to offer up blatant endorsements to any administration, but for the first time in quite a few years I do feel that we just might make it as a nation, with hopefully a bit of civility and hamanity still intact:-)

Thanks for stopping by.

Jen - sadly, agreed.

Tchaka - too funny.:-)

Dan - let me see, nope, definitely not, I may have highjacked something with lots of bitiching in it though:-)

Jan - Where did you get the idea that Christians are the ones persecuting illegal aliens? I am a Christian myself, and I am the only person helping a very close friend of mine from Mexico who has been here in the U.S. for 15 years with no legal documentation. I have provided him with meals, money, and hours of my time to try to help him find a legal path to citizenship. After we consulted together with a local attorney, I found that no such path exists, until Congress provides sweeping immigration reform.

My friend spends many Christmases here at my house. He, too, is a Christian.

I am currently in the process of helping my friend's wife get a work visa here so that they can be together again. Frankly, he is one of the finest men I know, and if I can help him, I will.

THIS is how Jesus taught us to treat one another. Anything you have seen/read/heard to the contrary is false. We are called to help the poor, sick, and the hungry. Period.

My friend would strongly prefer to do everything completely without reproach, but he and his family cannot survive on the money he would make in Mexico. His wife currently makes $20/week cleaning homes there.

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall be shown mercy." - Matthew 5:7

Jason - if you scroll through healtcare related posts on Silent Majority group, you'll see quite a few rather mean-spirited comments regarding illegal immigrant coverage by pretty vocal Christians, at least ones who call themselves that.

It's a rather sad state of affairs, in my opinion, but Jan didn't make this up. I wish she had.

You are a good man, Crouch, and I doubt politics would ever change that, or religion, for that matter. Peace.

Inna - I learned the hard way many moons ago not to go into that particular group - too many violent and not-fully-informed opinions being tossed around casually there. I haven't visited in well over a year. Just not my cup of tea. I prefer civil discourse. I can even debate and disagree with my friends and we remain friends afterwards. :) Thanks for your kind words.

Jan - I understand your comment better now based on what Inna told me. If there are Christians who are doing and saying the types of things that you indicated, it's despite their faith, not because of it, I can assure you.

Jason - that explains it. You haven't missed much, I assure you:-)

PS: I try to keep this here blog civil, but since I a stickler for that whole free speech thing - at times it runs away from me.

Inna, your description of the whole situation, and the glimpses of some of the townhall meetings I saw made me think it is amazing what fear does to people. Death panels. Now that was a great image for everyone!!

I think it is spelled beeeoootch (gotta drag it out all Yee Haa style for effect) but I am 100% sure hospital is spelled wrong.

Somebody pass the stapler.

I heart Inna!

Maybe it's just a simple beotch?

Inna - I just happened across this one. I always enjoy your writing and actually just spent quite a bit of time reading through the comments. I avoid politics for the most point, I have my beliefs and everyone else has their own. I don't try to convince anyone one or the other, I depend on people to make the decision that they feel is right.

In recent times, I have seen a movement (on both sides of the political fence) working hard to "sway" the other people's opinions. This has come together into a roar of outcries - again, on both sides. Bring up any issue and you can get people mobilized to disagree with it...and agree with it.

There were comments about working to push the bill through before anyone read it? Does everyone here know how often bills aren't read by Congressmen? If they actually read every word of what they're passing, they wouldn't have time for expensive trips, philandering, drug use, or fund raising instead of being around voting (yes, I said all those thing knowing full well that not everyone participates in them).

I learned many years ago, that you can take any point and churn out propaganda on either side of the issue. Politics has a whole industry dedicated to it. Propaganda may seem a harsh word, and has obvious connotations from it's WWII days, but the fact is, it is propaganda in many cases.

For the record, my wife is English and has enjoyed "socialized" medicine and it's benefits. My mother in law recently had surgery without having to wait for it - and it wasn't life threatening. I can find a person in any country who will agree/disagree with the nation's principals. It's all about how much you want to spin any issue.

The new idea of co-ops made me laugh as one of the selling points were they were non-profit. So that must mean they would save us all right? Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Pennsylvania is non-profit. Trust me, I had them as an insurer - they weren't doing me any favors with the BILLIONS they were bringing in as a NON-PROFIT. They were a very charitable organization and for that I give them a ton of credit. But when people I knew were being denied coverage while they did this? You can see my cynicism over "non-profit" being part of any solution.

PS I agree with Inna - I think if you removed all traces of religion and politics from Jason Crouch, he'd still be the same guy he is and that's from my personal conversations with him - not just cause I think it's the right thing to say.

Gary - LOL, i guess to some this post in and of itself could be construed as 'scare tactics':-)

Mandy dearest - yep, hospital is indeed misspelled, as is my other favorite insult - "chique" - at least he/she got heroin spelled correctly:-)

PS: to anyone wishing to curse at me on my blog, please consider adopting a rather appealing southern drawl - it'll take the edge off and still come across lady-like, no matter what gender you people are.:-)

Matt - good of you to stop by and thank you for your comment. The level of discussion on this subject has, sadly, turned into nothing but propaganda, and yes i can see why you would say from both sides. I have no problem with political ads, speeches and taglines designed to sell the public on one idea or another, but I do have a serious issue with anyone deliberately trying to scare the shit out of people with what they know to be lies, and rather blatant ones.

I think it's rather unfortunate that the discussion per se got quelled by untruths, at least for now.

PS: Thanks for confirming all that good stuff about Crouch, cause you know I was just winging it:-)

YOUR VOTE: MAN or WOMAN?

I'm trying to figure out if Just Wonderin' is a man or woman. The catty opening initially lead me to think it might be a woman. But then there was "bringing Boney back"... a very guy think to say. Hmmmm.

90s? That's at least a decade off. 90s was wafe. I don't know that being a decede behind "fashionable" is a trait attributable to either sex. I just thought it was funny...

...and the line about what Activerain is for??? I'm leaning woman on that one.

But the phonetic assembly of the word "biotch"... DUDE!

I'm going to guess this person was a 60+ year old southern hermaphrodite with a fake lisp and a cold soar that just won't go away.

Keep on chuggin' Inna. You're my heroin! ;)

Jon - maybe it's a well edumacated but misunderestimated chap or gal who just had one too many Colt 45s?

AUG

Great post Inna. I read some of the comments with dismay.

The use of the word "czar" caught my attention again.

Just so everyone knows a cazr is a male monarch or emperor (especially of Russia prior to 1917).

So Obama does not have any "czars."

It is so hard to wade through all of this crap.

And what's everybody's problem? They are all afraid of taxes going up. Who cares that the poor go without health care in this country and that we have the worst pre-natal care in the Western world. Who cares about that. I don't want my tax bracket to change.

Un-freaking-believable.

We rank 37th in the world for health care, according to the World Health Organization. Yet, everytime I turn on Fox News, they say we have the greatest medical care in the world.

I wonder how they so neatly avoid the facts? Like the fact that Canadians have healthier babies and they live longer.

Somebody will probably respond to this, but it is not likely that they will acknowledge the World Health Organization or the fact that we have a worse infant mortality rate than Pakistan.

They never do.

Michael - thank you for your well thought-out response. I am Russian by birth (and education, on some level), so I am rather intimately familiar with the whole Czar phenomena. I will say this, probably to the dismay of some on here - the czar who was de-throned in the great Russian October revolution was a 1000 times better for the country than the morons who rebelled against the 'regime'.

Nope, i am not a monarchist, if you will, but I do appreciate a value someone with braincells, inherited or otherwise brings to governing of anything, whether it be a business or a country. It is sad, to say the least, that we as a nation are catering to the lowest common denominator, the 'Average American', "Joe-the-maybe-plumber'.... The common man... hmmm, sounds so Marxist:-)

Thanks again, Michael, and I don't expect any retaliation on this blog. Not to worry.

Well, I dropped by after reading your comment on Michael's post and I must say I am appalled! I don't know how you had the patience to answer the many many comments that did nothing but quote others and added absolutely nothing to the discussion or facts for that matter. While I have purposely stayed away from politics and religion on ActiveRain, Once I dipped my toe in on Michael's blog I figured what the heck, I want to vent my frustration at the incredible amount of lies and misinformation that is being spread not only by some of your commentors here but by some pretty darn crazy news folks. My conclusion is that the irrational anger is a result of bitterness about losing the election and the economy. I am just so darned disappointed to see the crazy pundits getting such a following and I fear the damage these folks can do. It seems that otherwise rational people would rather here lies if it feeds their needs than try to help our country solve this heath crisis.

Thank you Inna!

SEP

It makes my head hurt to try and think down on the level of people who believe all this right wing drivel Unfortunately you cannot fix stupid and with freedom, the stupid get to express themselves too. It's weird but it works and is just one of the things thinking folks have to bear and also resist!

One other thing...many people get the wrong idea about Texans based on the moronic and ill-informed rants like those posted in your comments section earlier. Of course these same folks despise people like me and are never willing to even try and look at compromise. For them it's all black and white and we are the stupid ones! It's so much easier for them to listen to some talking head and let the right wing talk show folks do their thinking for them.

Enough...I need some Tylenol...

Diane - so sorry for the late reply, i didn't get my nifty ar notice for some reason:-(

I think you are right, in that all the ranting has very little to do with the Health Care reform - it's a much more universal anger than that. Sadly, I think their fear is quite real, and fighting fear based in imaginary demons is pretty darn impossible....

Russell - I won't hold your geography against you:-) But right you are, it certainly gives one a headache, at the very least. Scary that it works though, isn't it. I am afraid that our customary rebuttals to the stupidity via NYTimes and such op-eds are, indeed, rather useless.

We ought to find a way though...

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