X (selling side) + X (listing side) = fee established to sell a home.

It's always been this way (at least, as far back as I can recall), and it just IS- sellers "pay" the fees in order to relieve buyers of cash out of pocket; the fee is in the published price of the home, so the reality is, the buyer is picking up the tab. To be equitable, lets just presume that each "side" pays.

On Long Island, grasping the concept of buyer agency has forced absurdity for many real estate agents, and short of the DOS stepping in and providing easy to understand agency representation disclosures (and eliminating two that make no sense), will remain so.

Those agents understanding the inherent fairness of buyer agency are met with listing companies that refuse the offering (they usually blame the seller). "GET THE BUYER TO PAY YOU- YOU'RE REPRESENTING THEM." Except, were I to come in under one of the other two offerings, either the SELLER is vicariously liable (yes! NY still offers sub agency) or the LISTING COMPANY is vicariously liable, should I intentionally misrepresent something. Not my problem! Except, no thanks- I'll work with my buyer and afford them the representation that they're entitled to- I'll also be their go-to if there's intentional misrepresentation.

Who, working with a buyer, wants to "represent" the seller, anyway??? That's the listing companies job, and they're being paid for it.

X (selling side) + X (listing side)= fee established to sell a home.

The forward thinking agents (ok- it's new here) have ready, willing and able buyers, yet on MANY listings, the only way to present the house is to force the buyer to pay them out-of-pocket for the representation. Some buyers agents do this without a thought- not fully grasping that fiduciary (in our verbiage, so required) would stipulate that we REALLY take care with our buyers financial postition.

X (selling side) + X (listing side) = fee established to sell a home. Except, buyer, YOU get to pay a new formula: X(selling side with no selling agent) + X (listing side) + X (buyer agency fee)= the fee established to sell a home the Long Island way. Our transactions should earn more, right?

Now, the problem could certainly be solved by reducing the offer to include the phantom selling side fee (that they're paying out of pocket). Except, now the SELLERS formula is: X (selling fee) + X (listing fee)- and their net is lowered- see, the buyer is not going to pay ia "selling fee" twice- it was taken into account when our offer was written.

If listing companies on Long Island don't start to understand the SIMPLE FORMULA of a transaction, and simply offer buyer agency because it's what NY is clearly dictating is best for all involved, we are going to continue to remain among the most backward (OK- we're in second place) real estate venues in the country. Transactions here are not about a meeting of the minds between a buyer and a seller; too many transactions are about a non- meeting of the minds between a listing company and a simple bit of math:

X (selling side) + X (listing side)= fee established to sell a home.

READ the disclosure; understand it, and my guess is that having me, or anyone, come in "representing" your seller is going to fall by the wayside. Here's another calculation:

My error as a sub or broker agent + 1 pi&*#d off buyer = potential lawsuit for either the seller, the listing company, or BOTH.

 Me? If I came in hired by you, I'm off the hook! Oh- and don't call me about it, because I don't remember anything that I discussed with the buyer- I was too busy trying to sell them "our" sellers house!

(facetious above, but any broker willing to assume liability for a selling agent that they've never met could well end up with that conversation). Just an OPINION, having seen too much nonsense over a simple equation, a state putting into action consumer protection, and some Realtors on Long Island digging their heels in quicksand, and looking very, very foolish in front of those to whom they owe fiduciary.

**The New York Agency Disclosure Form can be found here. Note that broker agency doesn't reference "selling agent", and if there's no buyers agent...

 

12 Comments on Wits End Approaching...Again!

AUG
20
600,653 Points 111 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Our agency disclosure is the first page of our Purchase Contract and that's a part of our offer....good thing...sounds like some may not even be informed there is definitely a difference....and that no matter what ...it's always in the best interest of both the seller and the buyer to have their OWN representation. ...

7:09pm • #1
139,606 Points 14 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Sally Jo, it's sad because Realtors are stepping up to the plate to represent buyers, and getting the door slammed in their faces by brokers that only offer payment if they represent the seller...to the detriment of the seller, and/or the listing company. Very strange, and not a "fun" environment!

Sean's mother is headed back to Hawaii after having been here- knows who to call if she decides to buy again, and can't wait to return to that gorgeous place!

7:56pm • #2
AUG
21
172,548 Points 10 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Simply submit your offers with the selling brokerage fee factored in ----- they must present and make sure to request to be present when the offer is presented.

6:32am • #3
139,606 Points 14 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

So sad that after a few years of this agency present, some Realtors new to it, and on board, are sabotaged by those digging their heels in...they just don't get that NY state is on board, and has made it the most logical choice for a reason. Upstate seems to get it- Long Island is it's own worst enemy sometimes!

6:45am • #4
SEP
04
156,905 Points 18 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Laurie,

We have the agency disclosure very clear in Manhattan now.  We disclose agency relationship on everything. We represent the seller/owner on our exclusives, except if another agent at the same brokerage represents the buyer/tenant, in which case we will be a dual agent with designated agents representing seller/owner and buyer/tenant.

We represent the buyer/tenant when showing the exclusives of other real estate firms. in all instances we treat all parties fairly and honestly and support equal housing opportunities. Simple and transparent.

Miriam is correct. All offers must be submitted to the seller. Only a seller can accept or reject an offer not a broker.

1:02pm • #5
139,606 Points 14 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Mitchell, glad to hear that NYC finally jumped into the real world- great news!

The post involves listing companies refusing to pay "buyer agency" (likely unbeknownst to the seller in many cases), but willing to compensate you if you represent the seller (instead of the buyer)- simple and transparent would be offering compensation to the selling agent under buyer agency, without forcing the selling agent to jump through a hoop, or creating a financial loss for the seller, as the listing company gains.

Hope all's well with you!

1:35pm • #6
156,905 Points 18 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Laurie, Hope all is well with you too. That is incredible. That is the old way before the disclosure law in 2007. Sub agents of seller's agents. Buyer beware! How archaic. I can only assume these listing companies don't belong to any local real estate board or MLS.

I wonder how they explain that to a seller when they sign an exclusive? "We represent you seller and any buyer who has an agent represents you too and not the buyer."

1:58pm • #7
139,606 Points 14 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

YUP. Long Island is verrry behind the times in many, many ways- and the LIBOR, while invaluable for mls access and data (they own it; they make the rules; MLS is simply a function), has a way to go before they get as current as the rest of the country. I am perplexed as to why the Dept. of State has even offered broker agency- what listing company (and most out here offer it) wants liability for acts of the selling agent? I haven't found a company yet that fully grasps this- at least NYC has finally entered the KISS mentality found everywhere else!

The saddest part is that the big companies are guilty, as well- you'd think they'd have  lawyers that would explain this stuff!

Doesn't it feel so much cleaner to represent that person with whom you're working (buyers)?

*did you catch what buyers agents are up against, when this happens: x + x +x (buyer paying out of pocket to selling agent)? Ridiculous.

2:12pm • #8
156,905 Points 18 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

 Laurie,

I don't understand broker's agent.  No lawyer or any one has ever been able to explain it. I was at CBHK when the law first went into effect, we met with lawyers to discuss all aspects of agency disclosure.

Broker's agent is not a listing agent or a buyers but it cooperates or is engaged by both buyers agents and listing agents but does not work for the same listing or buyers agent. What does that mean???

The buyer and listing agents have liability for the acts of the broker's agent. The broker's agent has no liabilities. it sounds ridiculous.

Dual agency/ designated dual agency is much easier to explain to a buyer and seller.

 

3:04pm • #9
139,606 Points 14 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Well, if you take the last sentence, and eliminate the words "buyers agent" (because there isn't one) here's what you're left with:

"The listing agent do(es) provide instruction to the brokers agent and therefore the listing agent will have liability for the brokers agent."

That was enough for us, with only a handful of listings, to bypass THAT offering altogether! 100% of the companies (all of them) offer broker agency out here (on 99% of the listings), and sadly, there are many takers. Makes absolutely no sense, and is counter productive to a venue in which buyers are represented. I'm with you- why would I want the selling agent to represent my seller??? (Why would the seller who is paying us want that, knowing that it's an opening for legal issues)?

Your middle ? appears to mean that a brokers agent is not a member of the listing company- they come from a different agency altogether- and are "engaged" (WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST SAY HIRED) by the listing company. *Easiest way to get through the whole offering is to black out buyer agent verbiage and read it, then the other way around. Only took me a year.

3:14pm • #10
156,905 Points 18 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Sounds crazy Laurie. In this market you would think sellers would want buyers any way they can get them.  I'm in a deal where the commission is x% y% to listing agent and z% to the buyers agent. Z% is more. They pay the buyers agent a higher split to entice them to bring their buyers.

Have a great holday weekend.

4:26pm • #11
139,606 Points 14 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

It's good to be "Z"!! You enjoy your weekend as well- can't imagine a place with more going on.

4:46pm • #12

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Laurie Mindnich North fork Long Island Real Estate

Southold, NY

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Laurie Mindnich at Options Realty

Address: 21 West 2nd St. Ste. 6, Riverhead, NY, 11901

Office Phone: (631) 727-2227

Cell Phone: (631) 765-6221

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