Call Me A Socialist, I can Live With It.

John, we have a moral obligation to care for our "brethren."  Unfortunately the religious right apparently is no longer is concerned with their brethren.  You posted some verses from the bible that attest to that, and got shouted down.  You, I, and all the people like us, are what made this country as great as it is.  Taking care of and supporting each other is what its all about.  The "others" never got it, and never will.  I wonder what they're going to say when they're left behind when the rapture happens?

Question - At what point does the government draw the line when "caring" for people?  Food is a necessity.  Clothing is a necessity.  Housing is a necessity.  Should the government provide these things as well?

I'm not saying the poor and needy should not be cared for and also trained to care for themselves.  I just don't believe it is the government responsibility to do so. When you surrender your responsibiltiy to a central government, you also surrender your rights to them.

My eyes are about to explode with your consideration of Jesus as a liberal.  He was a radical but neither liberal nor conservative in today's use of the word. 

Liberalism and Conservatism are terms that are in flux.  What is now considered conservative is actually "classical liberalism" of the 18th and 19th centuries.  Today's liberalism comes from late 19th century and early 20th century progressivism which is borrowed from an old idea of state control.  Where is it borrowed from?...the old institution of Monarchy.  The classical liberal wanted to break away from as much central and state control as possible.  This was the mentality of the majority of our nations founding fathers.

John -

You're pretty funny!  In your comment just above, you ask, "When will conservatives wake up and realize that they are their brothers keeper?"

How about right after Boy Blunder digs deep into his pocket, pulls out a measly $50, and sends it to his real, flesh and blood, half-brother George - who lives on less than a dollar a month, in a ramshackle hut in a slum on the outskirts of Nairobi, Kenya.

George's quote is actually, "I live here on less than a dollar a month," so that measly $50 would be a minimum 417% increase in his annual income.   "Brother's Keeper", indeed!

John, I'm with you on this one.  Certainly we are supposed to be our brother's keepers.  That doesn't  mean "give them all your money".  To me, it means set things up so that each brother & sister gets an equal shot at certain basic things.  The way our military works is a great example of this.

The military shows how the power of pooled tax money supports useful ongoing efforts that benefit us all. If we each bought our military protection individually (or even through employer groups!) on the open market, that wouldn't result in any of us being well-protected, would it?

However, the money spent to ensure that we have a powerful military doesn't have a visible benefit to me right this moment.  There's not some guy from another country at my door with a gun.  And if I bought some military protection on the open market, I could keep that guy away for quite a while.

But I'm glad to pay taxes instead.  That way, I know that I don't have to make a monthly military protection payment.  Instead, the government has my back whether I owe taxes this year or not.

Our parents & grandparents also paid taxes to the government to keep that same guy away from all of our doors today. Thus, we have achieved an equal shot at breathing for all of us.

Health care, to me, is similar.  If you're not willing to pay into a system that protects us all, then sooner or later, you will be the one unprotected.  There are many examples of the "guy at the door with a gun" from a healthcare perspective.  I'm sure you can all think of some.

I will pay gladly to keep that guy from your door, and I hope that each of you want to keep him from mine, too.  We're in this together, folks.

I would like to see health care reform done correctly rather than quickly, but I want to see it done and believe that some form of unlosable health care benefits for all citizens is essential to making it work and keeping us on the right moral track.

Yes, that most likely that means it's the government that will have our backs.  I don't expect them to be perfect every time, just as our military doesn't do everything right every time.  But I fully expect and trust that they will get the job done.    

I have already contacted my Congressperson and Senator.  Have you?

Edited:  I forgot to call you a socialist.  You socialist, you.

John - Even putting the "brothers keeper" idea aside for a minute, I don't see how we will ever get a handle on health care costs unless we adopt a single payer system for coverage.  A single payer system would provide the clout to drive costs down, especially regarding the cost of prescription medications, and those $87.00 aspirins given when you're in the hospital.

There is a reason Canadians can get the same medications we do (manufactured by our drug companies) for less than half what we pay for them in this country.  It's because of their single payer system.

And, we are the only industrialized nation on the planet that doesn't have a government health care program for its people.  To me, that is a testament to what we are as a country.  The UK, the French, the Canadians, and even third world countries have government funded health care.  And certainly not all of them are socialist, communist, or any other histrionic label ultra conservatives want to attach to that.

We have had a major export of our jobs overseas.  There is a reason for that.  Part of that reason is the cost of health care to employers in this country.  So what do corporations do (even our own American corporations). . .They move operations overseas, where the government provides health care.  Now is that a travesty or what!

John: Who's calling you a socialist? This type of logical fallacy construction-deconstruction is called a "straw man" in addition to your ad hominem-poisoning the well, stereotyping attack on the GOP, all  fallacies. You also rely heavily on Appeal to Emotions, also a fallacy. You studiously omit any evidence to support an alternate, possibly truthful conclusion, a fallacy called Stacking the Deck or Suppressed Evidence. The conclusion that "The public option is the only way to ensure that they and I can get reasonable coverage at a reasonable price." is a fallacy called a black-or-white fallacy or a false dilemma, or it could be termed Confirmation bias (the tendency to look only for evidence to support ones controversial hypothesis), or perhaps a Post Hoc fallacy.  Loaded language, fallacies and scare tactics aside, this piece contains a few linking words and articles, but little of value.

Why dont you write a blog on what YOU do for YOUR "brethren"... What do you do to help the poor and the needy that you speak of?  If this is truly how you feel you would get farther being a good example rather than spewing.  And once you respond please focus on my question and don't go trailing off babbling about your liberal views. 

Here is the question again if you need me to repeat it... What do you do to help the poor and the needy that you speak of? 

I'll tell you then personally what I do to help my brethren.  I was feeling very hopeless last year, with the economy the way it is.  I brought a lot of food to my local food bank.  I spent half our Christmas money helping 3 different families without money to provide Christmas to their children.  And before that I helped my brother-in-law's mother in Africa.  She lost her daughter to who knows what illness and is left with her four children.  She has an unknown heart condition and can't work her field any longer or risk death.  We decided to spend half our Christmas or extra money that year to help her, our family, in Africa to create a store so she didn't have to work the fields.  What are you doing?

Hope you don't mind the link John, but I am just trying to show that I put my $ where my mouth is as far as helping others.

I also do have to say we received support from active rain members in helping my sister's mother-in-law and I also found a new, local charity to give to in order to help a child in Africa.

John, seeing as how we don't agree on everything ( So you think you can't make a difference? then maybe your right.. ) If you remember that one.... I still like reading your post...

The one you posted here I like and have to agree with you on this. We really need some kind of health care system for everybody(I may just be a socialist) but with that being said I don't know Matt but I am sure he was calling you a dumb ass in a politically correct way. So you were correct in saying"I hardly see you contributing anything of constructive value to the conversation" anyway I thought I would give you my 2 cents worth of nothing because I liked your thought on this even if I disagree with you on other things and keep up the good work you do with your Charity's....peace zane

Great post John, but of course, the real fun is reading the comments from the conservatives that stray from the topic.  What do you do for the poor?  Me?  Lots of stuff.  So now that you answered her; where did Tara go?  I guess she's probably building a Habitat or something. 

By the way, this bleeding heart liberal will be down in Mexico again in a few weeks to build a home.