Are you a Real Estate Practitioner?  A Loan Originator?  An Independent Sales Representative?

Back when we were young pups, thinking about leaving the security of an employed position, to join the ranks of the "Be Your Own Boss" set - you felt pretty invincible, didn't you?

"I can make a lot of money selling . . . (fill in the blank)!"  I'll cover the family.  Make enough to pay for the kids college tuition.  Put a few bucks away.  Even pop for that nice car, or boat, or second home!

Health care coverage?

Hey - I'm young!  Thirty-something!  My spouse works - I'll glomb onto her policy!  I feel fine . . . and, by the time I'm old enough to need more intensive health insurance coverage, I'll be able to find coverage.  I'll likely have to pay a premium for it, but I will get it.  No problem!

So, gang, what happened?

Sweet sixteen turned 31, then 41, then 50, or more.  Although 50 is the new 30, or something like that, you start to get prescribed medications you never had to worry about before.  For blood pressure.  Perhaps asthma.  Hopefully, nothing more serious - but, for some post-50, they are not so lucky.

The costs for these miracle meds?  ASTRONOMICAL!

Each day, I take three medications - one pill for allergies, an inhalation drug for asthma, and a mild blood pressure reducer.  The cost for the regimen each month - in excess of $300!  And, I am pretty healthy, the right weight, and I exercise and eat well.

Routine care doctor visits?    Sky high!  Often, over $250!  And, being a guy, I try my damnedest to avoid the doctor's office!

My Blue Cross Individual Health Insurance Premiums, which I purchased with great ease when I became an independent contractor over 15 years ago, have increased three-fold in price per month - it now costs over $850 each month to insure me and my wife.

Further, to keep the costs within a reasonable realm, I have had to increase our deductibles - to over $5,000 each.  Prescription Drug Coverage - minimal.    One of my monthly prescriptions costs over $150 - and I am not even sick!  Geez!

And each year, I receive a nice little white envelope from the Blue Cross people, crying how medical costs have gone up soooo much, and it is with great regret that the have to raise our health insurance rates once again.  10%.  15%.  Once, nearly 18%. 

But here's the kicker - I rarely even use the policy. Unfortunately, however, I know that my usage of medical services can climb precipitously, at any time, the older we are fortunate to become.

And there is nothing we can do about it!  Nothing!

Stop coverage?  You know that will be when our families' genetic disposition to heart disease will kick in!

Reduce coverage?  Same concern, and for those of you who may have not noticed - there is a recession on, and, often times, the income is hard fought!

Today, people who work for companies - those who are fortunate enough to still have a job, that is - don't truly know how lucky they are to have subsidized health care coverage, even though the employee co-pays have increased considerably over the years.

We Independent Contractors have seen even greater increases!

And many of we indies are considering the previously-unthinkable - going without health care insurance, since its cost is going out of control.

Once an older insured lets coverage lapse, it is far tougher to get it back, at any kind of reasonable price, with advancing age.  Walking away from coverage, therefore, is a very bad move!

Something, it seems, needs to be done to keep health care costs in check.  For the aging population of Independent Contractors.  And Real Estate Practitioners.

Reasonable rates.  No Pre-Existing Conditions.  And, yes, absolutely, the Public Option, to keep private providers in line, and costs down!

Socialism?  Don't think so!  It's just common sense!  Even many of those outspoken "Righty Tighties" agree!  Something, something needs to be done about Health Care in the U.S.! 

For many!  For everyone!  But, especially, for us!

Or, the problem is going to get far worse - especially among the ranks of us self-employed individuals.

Senator Ted Kennedy, God rest his soul, was on the right track all these years.

No doubt!

Your thoughts?

DEAN & DEAN'S TEAM CHICAGO

 
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196 Comments on HEALTH CARE COVERAGE and the Independent Contractor! Something Has Gotta Happen . . . Soon!

AUG
26
258,734 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

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Health Insurance--Individual Medical Coverage. A variety of plans available from a choice of three carriers: Health Net, Kaiser, and Western Health Advantage. Vision insurance benefits through Medical Eye Services are available to those who opt for medical insurance. Dental insurance also available. Kistner Insurance Service Contact Duane K. Kistner or Scott K. Kistner at (916) 787-1084.

11:22pm • #1
203,975 Points 6 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Dean, we definitely need to make changes to health care. Too bad the last administraiton didn't start tackling this elephant in the room. But I am 100% in agreement - not socialism. There is a solution in the middle without going to the opposite extreme. What about incentives for doing medical treatments within budget?

Sharon

11:29pm • #2
380,332 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Dean: Health care has become way to costly. Lucky for me, I have the VA for my service connected issues, but my wife and kids.. thats another story. Many can't even afford health care these days.

11:34pm • #3
2 Featured Posts

I hear you! I pay $515 a month for Kaiser, and it is more than 30 miles away. For emergency coverage only. I don't know how it got to this point, but something has got to be done. I just heard that doctor and hospital related illness and deaths are the third (?) largest health care dangers! There is even a new word for the dis-ease of injuries to a person caused by inefficient doctors and hospitals (someone please advise).


My strategy is to stay away from doctors and hospitals, but I'm like you - I won't cancel my coverage because you know the minute you do, you will need it. And uninsured people are ruined by "catastrophic" illness.

P.S. I think "socialism" is a buzzword. The VA is run socialistically, as is the military. It works in those cases and there are many more . . . it is not some "evil" commie plot . . .

11:47pm • #4
AUG
27
258,734 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

think "socialism" is a buzzword. The VA is run socialistically, as is the military. It works in those cases and there are many more

Actually, the VA healthcare system is a mess, rationing care to wounded warriors.  It is the very epitome of why eliminating competition reduces the quality of care.

The military is run on a merit system and is HIGHLY competitive; ask any General officer

12:21am • #5
347,975 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

It just seems to keep getting worse.  8 years ago, my husband and I paid $90 together when we switched out of a similar plan with less benefits last year, the cost was almot $900.  We'd added two kids, but only the first one added to the cost, but seriously an increase of 1000% (if I did the mathe right) in 7 years?  It would be ok if my income had done the same thing.

 

I don't know the answer; all I do know is it's out of hand.

12:26am • #6
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Dean:

My husband went back to a job with benefits and our coverage is still expensive.  I would now call us under insured.  For $400 per month we have a $3500 deductible.     If you are self-employed it is ridiculous how much insurance costs.  I don't know what the answer is.  I think we are all about to find out and we may not like what is coming down the pipeline. 

12:44am • #7
641,040 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I am older too. I have the blue cross high deductable critical care policy. Mine is 150 per month. But I don't want health insurance. If this health care bill passes- I would be forced to get health insurance that I don't want. The health care that  I choose is not covered.

I go to the my ob/gyn once a year, my doctor once a year. That hardly warrants paying the astronomical costs that I would be forced to pay. I should not be punished for choosing alternative health care. I go to a Chiropractor all the time. We pay a flat family fee of $2500 a year for our entire family of more than 8 people for unlimited visits. We pay for a package deal with the massage therapist, because prevention is the answer to long life and healty life. I see a homeopathic doctor for checkups and taking care of my health. Homeopathics are not covered under policies. We have a medical savings plan.

I eat organic, no casseine, no artificial preservatives, no gmo foods, no processed foods- and natural remedies for nearly anything. I exersise and am losing weight slowly to keep it off. I look and feel young. You are what you eat.

I do spend a lot of money at my dentist but no public option is going to cover my teeth. In fact, most insurance policies don't cover dental and when they do, it is only a reimbursement and a small amount of what is covered. I know, I have one  son out of 4  who qualified for medicaid because of the life he has chosen to live. They would pay for his teeth to be pulled but not for cavities to be filled and not for his dentures. That is public option which is really government deciding who gets what.

Public option is socialism. What you are asking for is the government to take care of your health. What makes you think you would even qualify for the public option? The way the bills were being written there are income caps on the public option. I know with our income we would not qualify as we are part of those evil high income earners that are supposed to pay for everyone else who does not make what we do. How is that fair?

Who is going to pay for this public option?

The VA is horrific! I am a Navy Brat and the health care we got as kids and growing up was horrible!  The state of Oregon public health option turned down a 62 yr old woman who has cancer to get the chemo type pills she needs. They said no, it costs too much- rationing- then said in the same letter that they would cover her assisted suicide costs. And people say that won't happen here! It already has and is! 

You should be more concerned about your age and how dispensible you are becoming to society according to health counsels. Who is going to decide your fate? You or the government? Soon you will be quailfied for medicare and then you will have your public option.

The gov't is now pointing their fingers at the 'evil insurance companies' but guess who was in the closed door meetings at the white house discussing health care reform? The big ones, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, getting ready to cut out all the smaller insurance companies. I know a lot of insurance agents who are telling me what is really going on and it is not a pretty picture.

Yes, there needs to be reform, but government involvement in our lives is NOT the answer! Katerina

1:04am • #8

I have catastrophic coverage only for me and my wife, and we pay about 300 month and have a deductible of 500 per year and that is awful. We should go for physicals and stuff but we don't because we pay everything out of pocket.

One huge reason that healthcare is so high is defensive medicine. Doctors and hospitals are so scared about getting sued that when you tell them you have a stomach ache they have to test you for everything under the sun and then prescribe pepto bismol to make sure nothing was missed that you will sue them for. That's what makes the costs of insurance astronomical.

Anything from the government that is mandated is bad. If they have an affordable alternative then people will sign up for it. No mandates, no penalties. This is still a free country, isn't it?

4:42am • #9
300,253 Points 27 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

Thanks for the comments, gang!

I think the buzzword here is "option."  Not "mandate."

The health insurance lobby is very strong - and they want the status quo.  Without pressure to change, all coverage will cost more - even the most bare bones, catastrophic coverage with high deductable.  Because they could get away with it - business is business!

A "public option," if available, could actually drive down costs.  It would create competition - the same way competition in the telecomunications industry has driven down the cost of making a long distance call.  Even today, AT & T charges an arm and a leg for long distance service - but most cell carriers offer long distance for free.  VOIP offers unlimited national calling for less than $30/month.  The high cost folks have to offer lower cost, more service-included options to compete.

For many, any kind of change - especially one suggested at the behest of the Fed - is against their political religion!   And their political mentors know how to advise them how to get the most airplay.

It is a shame this kind of fear mongering is turning so many against the basically needed concept of revamping the U.S. Health Care System. 

The label "Socialism" - I would guess the average Joe doesn't even understand the true meaning of the word.  But, like the word "fire" in a crowded theatre, or "lead paint" in a home inspection, the word "socialism" - just the word alone - scares the hell out of people.

Such a shame!

What scares the hell out of me?  Posters of our President with a Hitler mustache drawn in!  You think?  Who ARE these guys?

We must press on!

DEAN & DEAN'S TEAM CHICAGO

5:25am • #10
567,797 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

No one is against revamping health care. It is the "type" of revamping that Americans are concerned about. A Public Option would lower the standards and eventually that would be the "only" option.

What is in the bill is scary. I have read it, in parts the scary parts. Have you?

If not you should and then tell us if this is really what you want. If the plan is so good, I have a few questions for you, why won't the government get rid of their plan and go on it? Why can't it be tested in a few states and then give real life feed back? Why isn't tort reform in it?

This bill is not about health care it is about control. I hope you don't mind me disagreeing on your blog, Dean.

6:47am • #11

Alot of the W-2 folks just don't get it !!! We had newspaper articles in our area where employers were asking their people to co-pay $35-75 per month to survive and there was HUGE OUTRAGE ! AS you have said ,how about paying $1,000 per month, try that one on !  If Congress were paying that ,we'd have record breaking action !!!!

7:59am • #12
269,692 Points

Dean,  This is a very hot topic and all before us have made very good points.  Yes, something needs to happen.  We're in the same boat as many of you.  As for your prescriptions Dean, you may want to explain your situation to your doctor to see if there's an alternative.  My husband was paying a rediculous amount each month for prescritions and after talking to our doctor we found that he could get "some" of his medication from either target or wal mart for $4.00 a month compared to the $150.00 per month!!!  Same exact medication!!  Hope this applies to you too!  Good luck.

8:02am • #13
148,523 Points 4 Featured Posts

Dean, I am totally with you, and I am tired of the lies and hysteria when health care reform comes up. The same care that was $300 million 15 years ago is $2.5 trillion today. I like you have seen premiums skyrocket, and deductibles raised. With my cancer last yeat, with deductibles, copays, non-allowables, and living expenses in Houston I was out $30,000. How many Americans have that. I was luck I did, but that is $30,000 out of my retirement. I am also with Blue Cross through our state association. I tried to leave my franchise to go independent, but with a pre-existing condition like cancer and a 45 day wait to reinsitute my health insurance, I have very little chance of even getting insurance and when i do it will be triple the previous high cost. A public option is not scary, what is scary to me is that we already have death committees deciding who gets care and who dies. They are called insurance companies.

8:08am • #14
143,674 Points Hit Router

Great post . I have a$5000 family deductible and premiums of $3,000 a year.

 

Scary if something big happened.

8:19am • #15
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor

Righty tighties?  You may just alienate a percentage of your buyers/lurkers/readers & potential prospects should they read this...I'm sure the ones who will generate the most income for you can afford to buy a home and most likely have health insurance through employers and enjoy the ability to see a doctor when sick right now...

As for the political statement, I say, don't fix what isn't broken!  Fix the bit that is broken.  The bill is very scary when you read it...

Perhaps NAR may be able to help with the Independent Contractors...But it'll take your energy and spirit to make a difference...

Socialism doesn't work.  My father in law (England) has been walking around with a collapsed lung which is shrinking and has a white film growing on it...He's been waiting for a scan and follow up appointments for months.  He is fit, but yet cannot talk for long without running out of breath...

8:36am • #17

I agree with Katrina and Missy, the bill is scary.  Read it. There is enough vagary in it that even Specter says he will not vote for it in it's present form. I pay $1200. per month for horrible deductables on myself and husband.  I co paid several thousand this year, but I made my choices.  When a surgeon told me I need surgery I deemed unnecessary, I went for a second opinion.  When she was wishy washy, I went for a third, who was opposed and had a less invasive approach.  Six months later I am intact, healthy and a little poorer from copay.  I believe that option to take control of own health would be gone.  Tackle the base of the problem, not overhaul a system that is the best in the world, and make it as mediocre as just about anything else the government can do.  I am biting my lip on the Ted Kennedy reference..This administration is about consolidating power as fast as possible, Czars are out of reach of even Congress.  The level of new agencies created by this bill and the Cap and Tax are staggering..we do not even need to read between the lines, the sheer size of the bills make them too much to tackle for our lazy elected representatives let alone the public.

8:37am • #18
Localism Sponsor

This topic and our particular plight needs a lot more attention. My husband is a Contractor and we are both Realtors. We pay $950/month now for the privilege of a $5000 deductible. This year the cost went up $200/month because Golden Rule says the "cost of health care is rising". I have no cancer, no heart disease. I am very fit, weigh the same as I did when I was 40 years younger. Like many women of my age, I take Fosamex to prevent  osteoporosis - this drug is like a red flag to the insurers. I'm beginning to think it is prescribed by the medical community specifically because ...

I have always believed that if we could simply remove the state barriers and allow us to buy insurance through NAR or NAHB just like people that work for GM do, we could solve many of the problems.

I also feel that those making laws should be made to abide by them and suffer the consequences of their decisions.

8:38am • #19

If you are in good health and generally not using the benefits of your policy, look into a high-deductible policy with an HSA (Health Savings Account).  The monthly premiums are low, but the deductible is high. For my family of 4, our deductible is $6000 per year and monthly premium for medical, dental and a small vision plan are only $215 per month. 

You save the deductible in an HSA account (which actually earns a little interest).  Thoroughout the year, you pay for medical expenses out of the account, but it puts your money in your control vs. paying a huge monthly premium each month to the insurance company, the benefits of which you never use.  If you do not use the money in the HSA, it can be used the next year (it doesn't go away if you don't use it like an FSA).  And eventually you can also roll any unused funds into a retirement savings account.

It is a GREAT option if you are a healthy family.  You choose when and how often to go to the doctor - you are in control of what and how you spend it.  If you visit the doctor often, you may not come out ahead. 

8:42am • #20

Dean,

You are right on and it is sad that many Americans are swayed by the propaganda. I do not say that one plan or the other is right; just do something. Once the insurance lobby is overcome, lets work on tort reform. Thanks for your post.

8:46am • #21
Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Funny Doug,

You already pay for the non-insured have you checked out any hospital stay bill lately.  What are all those unidentified costs?   Oh can you say payments for the uninsured using emergency rooms for general care!!!

This is more than the uninsured it is about portability for pre-existing conditions for those of us with good insurance today.  It is about holding down costs so that all of us can afford insurance tomorrow.

It is sad that every time someones tries to raise an intelligent conversation it slides to name calling and mean spiritness. 

8:46am • #22
Outside Blog

Wow, Doug Myers, that's some venom you've got pent up in your soul. Perhaps some mental health coverage (see: anger management) might go a long way. =)

8:47am • #23
Localism Sponsor

Courtney, That is exactly the kind of plan we have - a high deductible HSA plan with Golden Rule/US Health. Your monthly outlay tells me you are a young healthy family. Your cost will go up every year and when you get to my age, you'll see them jump like mine did $200 a month just because.

8:47am • #24
130,393 Points Localism Sponsor

Public option is socialism and just another step for the government to control your life. The government cannot run the post office, Medicare, Medicaid, Amtrak or even the VA health system and now everyone wants a Public Option?  A not for profit Co-op may work if the government sets it up correctly and stays out of it.

A few quick notes to think about:

We should be able to buy health insurance across state lines making it more competitive.

Tort reform should be addressed. But is never mentioned because Washington is run by lawyers.

If you read the current bill in Congress you'll see that there is nothing to prevent illegals from receiving the benefits as well. We will all pay as usual.

Abortion will also be paid by you and every American. As the current bill does not eliminate it or say exactly to the word that it is not excluded.

The last thing in the world I want is the Government telling me what they will do to help me.

All seniors will see major increases in their premiums.

And who are these 47 millions people without insurance?

Plus what no one mentions where will the additional doctors and nurses from? Many doctors will drop out of a government run program as they do Medicare. Because the government only pays the pennies.

 

8:49am • #25

There are ways to bring health care into check without letting the government take over the whole thing. And yes that is what will happen when a so called Public "Option" is made available. All private plans will only be available to the elite because most people will not be able to afford a private plan anymore because their taxes will go up due to government subsidization of the Private "Option".

How about instead of government take-over, creating regulation that makes basic features mandatory for certain levels of insurance, and remove tax incentives for employers to provide the coverage so insurance companies have to compete on price directly to the consumer?

Summary: You an individual who works for himself has all the major health insurance companies competing to sell you exactly the same insurance plans for the cheapest price.

Does this scenerio sound good to you? It's called capitolism. A system that we are not using currently to provide healthcare coverage.

If this plan sounds familiar it's because it was John McCain's plan he proposed in the last presidential election, and it's one of the things he had right.

A government run healthcare system will not be good for our country, and it is ot the only solution out there to our problem.

8:50am • #26

Good post! But when the pols talk about it, independent contractors/the self-employed are never mentioned.

My husband and I have both been self-employed for 16 years and getting any kind of coverage has been a nightmare. The Massachusetts laws have made some plans more accessible but we pay a huge amount of money for BCBS - it's our largest payment every month and there is no end in sight for how high the premiums will go.

MA has plans for those who can't afford, but it turns out that many hospitals and doctors do not except those plans. My local area hospital doesn't; the closest facility that does accept the public plan is an hour drive - should someone who is sick have to drive for an hour when there is a hospital and many doctors just a few minutes away - how does that save money? Seems discrimintory to me!

We have an HMO so we have to go through a pirmary care physician for everything in order for the insurance to pay.  When my husband was recently hospitalized, we were told that PCPs don't go to the hospital and he saw a different dr. everyday. Yet, his PCP billed the insurance company for over $500.! The hospital sent him records, but it wasn't until he spoke with my husband weeks after the fact that he knew anything about his condition - how does that save money? These doctors and hospitals have to employ so many people to do paperwork that has nothing to do with health, only insurance.

The Massachusetts model may be a start, but if the country follows, we won't be better off and we will continue to pay more and there will always be 2 tiers of coverage while the insuance execs reward themselves with millions in bonuses...

Why can't we do single payer like other developed countries?

 

 

8:53am • #27
218,869 Points 31 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I AGREE with Missy ! Sorry Dean. I have also read the bill and frankly this is just one more thing the government wants to control. It's really not about healthcare, they can preach all they want to about helping the American people when in fact all this will do is hurt us in many ways. I do agree we all need help with healthcare but this is NOT it !

8:55am • #28
10 Featured Posts

I don't know what the answer is but I know something needs to change.  My husband and I started out together uninsured.  I paid thousands in medical bills at the time - because yup, cancer scare.  Just paid them off this year.  

When we got pregnant, we checked into insurance - 1200/month for JUST me for maternity coverage.  I can't make 2 house payments!

The decision was made for my husband to leave a beloved job and get a W-2 job where he obtained insurance.  There it only cost him 350/month for family coverage, with a $2500 ded.   He has since moved somewhere even better - costing us $150/month with the same deductible. Our biggest grace is the prescription meds.  My son is on 3 medications that would cost us $350 a month.  My husband is on a $250/month med, and I'm on $200/month ones 9 months of a year.

Despite insurance, we still have $30,000 in medical debt from items they refused to pay, decided not to pay, etc, despite referrals, paperwork, and triple-checking coverage. 

We recently in our Real estate family here, had an uninsured Realtor die.  Found lung cancer.  We had fundraiser after fundraisers to help him buy a lung transplant.  Didn't get the time.  I dont' know if it'd been different if he'd been insured, but I bet it would have been caught sooner, or he'd have been able to be cared for while he waited for the transplant. 

My husband is ready to come home, fully get back into the biz, but we can't - 3 kids and no insurance?

I don't know what needs to change - I focus on my real estate and haven't had a chance to research a lot of the health care options being floated around.  But I do know that what we have now is horribly broken...

8:59am • #29

This topic is a hot button issue to say the least, Where in the constitution is health care of any kind guaranteed. It isn't surprising that those of you in the rust belt states, are the ones most for the public option. Unions have ruined the auto companies by ensuring benefits to those working and retired. We all pay for this as well. Higher prices, jobs leaving the country. How about a 9 TRILLION DOLLAR deficit? Let's see if we can pay the Chinese back before we mortgage our grand kid's future.  The truth is WE CAN"T AFFORD IT.

9:04am • #30
116,026 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Dean, I'm with you on this! If public healthcare is socialism, then every one of our Senators and Congress persons is a socialist, because they are covered by government-run healthcare.

If public healthcare is socialism, then everyone over 65 is a socialist.

If anyone doesn't want to associate with a socialist, they'll have to tell their parents and grandparents to send back their  Social Security checks.

I have personally witnessed the difference between corporate healthcare and 'government-run healthcare'. My mother went through a major operation when she had an individual policy with one of the Big Health Insurance Monopolies. When she was back on her feet, she was also $10,000 out of pocket (today it would be triple or quadruple that). I won't even go into the phone calls necessary to fight and haggle over bills and non-customary charges with her doctors and the Big Insurance Co, all this while she was supposed to be getting better!

Ten years later, she went through another major operation, this time under Medicare. Her out-of-pocket cost was a whopping $50 because she had a private room for 2 nights. Interestingly, she went to the same hospital and had the same surgeon!

Give me the choice between a corporate healthcare policy and Medicare, I'd happily choose Medicare and just as happily pay for it! Then I'd know that if something catastrophic were to happen, at least I'd have peace of mind that I wouldn't have to go bankrupt from the deductibles, co-pays, and non-customary charges.

 

9:04am • #31

When you have to choose between owning a home or paying for some health insurance company's CEO bonuses, that's not the American Dream, I'm sorry. If you work hard you should have the right to enjoy a decent health insurance plan that guarantees coverage.

And we are already paying for other people's health insurance. Every time some uninsured person goes to the emergency room, who do you think pays for that? We do! With our tax money.

It's time for the health insurance industry to face the music- the gravy train has to come to end. We tried it their way. Unfortunately greed is a component of human nature and asking these companies to regulate themselves would be like asking a junkie to stop shooting up and expect him to do it, just because it might be a good idea.

9:06am • #32

Hi, Dean:

Great post.

I currently pay $550/mo for Blue Cross and $175/mo for each prescription that I fill.

I used to work in Telecom and had great benefits working for companies like AT&T and Western Union.  But, with the advent of the internet, telecom became commoditized and therefore rates went down.  While this was a good thing for consumers, it was a bad thing for my pay and benefits.  Eventually, my job was transferred offshore and I was without a corporate job and company provided benefits.

So, I was left with no option but to buy my own health insurance.

I keep hearing how we don't need health care reform.  That we need to let the free market handle pricing and insurance costs.  But, the free market doesn't apply when it comes to health care.

If I see food or clothing in the store which I think is too expensive, I can chose to go to another store or put off that purchase until prices come down.

However, if I get sick I HAVE to go to a doctor, I HAVE to buy medicine.  And if its serious enough, I may HAVE to go to a hospital where I will HAVE to pay the bills presented to me or file for bankruptcy.

Also, I've read that the average age of a real estate agent is 58 years old.  When you're that age, health insurance companies are not knocking on your door offering you coverage. 

Therefore, when it comes to healthcare, free market principles do not apply.

While I feel that everyone should do what is in their own best interest, I am angered when I hear that the consulting firms quoted by opponents to health care reform are own by health care companies.

Therefore, for selfish reasons, I support the public option version of healthcare reform.

9:07am • #33


Dean,

 

I t looks like your question about health care has hit an exposed nerve.  20 years ago I was a lot younger and so was my business partner at that time.  What we found as indepenmdent business people was the law3 of numbers.  As your numbers increase so does your leverage.  We joined the National Lumbermans association as an affiliate member.  Cost was outweighed by the fact that they had a great group insurance plan wioth plenty of members. 

We as REALTORS have better numbers than the lumberman or building materials dealers association which we also joined for a different group benefit.  If NAR cannot negotiate a decentlt priced medical benefits package from the private market or the public option, then you need to find a different association which has had the leadership and foresight to provide its members with a good health care option.

9:10am • #34
Localism Sponsor

What is most surprising to me about this discussion - the comments from those who can't be civil and respect other's opinions. I don't think any of us in Real Estate are experts; we are simply self-employed individuals who should be able to purchase reasonably priced health insurance. We should also be able to use a platform like AR to have polite discussions and share opinions.

9:11am • #35
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor

Chiming in with the others that have left comments, my health care cost is unbelievable, I get a notice every year that my rate is going up and like the others there is not much I can do -----accept if I want to run the risk of no coverage and go without. I have a HMO and the co-pays and deductible are reasonable. Last year I had a medical emergency and as the ambulance was taking me to the emergency room of a very nice local hospital -- I was saying a prayer of thankfulness that I was glad that I had the good fortunate to have health insurance, sure enough the first thing that I was ask ----do you have health insurance?

The thought of not having health insurance is scary. The other thing that is not being discussed is the cap that your health care policy has?

9:11am • #36

There is nothing in any of the current top bills which would permit interstate competition between insurance companies, address frivolous lawsuits and institute a "loser pays" tort system and/or - real important to Realtors - allow for associations to group together to directly offer and manage health insurance plans for its members.  Now before anyone starts writing to say we have that last one, save your typing.  What I am talking about is not passing through vendors who say they will provide a discount, but a true healthcare offering managed by NAR whereby they can use the clout and actuarial tables of a huge organization to negotiate prices down DIRECTLY.  Federal law precludes this right now and my genius senator, when asked to vote this out of committee, replied that it "wouldn't be fair to seniors".  I have no idea what the heck that means and when I asked for clarification, all I received was silence.

So, yes, lets have healthcare reform, but lets not ask Medicare recipients to foot about 1/2 of the cost for a co-op, public option or whatever.  Government doesn't really run anything efficiently - why would we expect anything different for healthcare. So once they eliminate all of the true competition through one of these plans, then we will be stuck with about 1/5 of our economy being run into the ground and our health options dictated by some bureaucrat who has no accountability to us.

9:11am • #37
246,529 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Here in Tennessee our state government implemented the same program that they are proposing on the national level. It was called Tenncare, but as you may suspect, it was a disaster. The state budget was quickly in the red, and the political leaders attempted to increase taxes in a major way. Since the promise of reduced cost was a major selling point in passing the bill, the idea of increasing taxes did not appeal to the voters.

Without the abilily to raise taxes, the Tenncare program was stripped of most of it's coverage. The promise of reducing the cost of healthcare by using a government program proved to be just another way to get get votes.

9:13am • #38

@Kathy

I don't see anyone being uncivil. I see a healthy debate going on but not anyone being uncivil.

9:14am • #39

Just before I turned 50 (7 years ago), I went out and got a policy, $5k annual deductible, no dental, no optical, no drugs, very limited on what was covered.  Started paying $207/mo.  Last year when it broke $500/mo, I cancelled it.  I'm single, have never been seriously ill in my life.  Other than elevated cholesterol, I'm healthy as a horse.  I never claimed a dime on that policy.  In hindsight, I wish I'd put that money in a medical savings account.

How would you react if the police dept. told you they wouldn't respond to your robbery call because you live in a high risk neighborhood, or if the fire dept said they won't come put your house fire out because there have been too many fires in your neighborhood so you're deemed a bad risk???  The old addage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" doesn't apply here.  IT'S BROKE!!!  Four or five huge health insurance conglomerates beholdin' to Wall Street do not make private sector competition.  These companies own our legislators which is why I fear nothing substantial willl come from all this.

For several years, I'd go to the hill in May when I was an NAR director, and our Senator Bacuus would always have an excuse why he couldn't support us on association health care.  Read this...

http://www.newwest.net/topic/article/prescription_for_disaster_is_baucus_on_the_phil_gramm_road_to_ruin/C37/L37/

Also Google Wendell Potter. 

Missy, the only way a public option would become the only option is if the crooks that run these health insurance giants don't quit gouging and start providing decent coverage.  Trust me.  They've got the profit margins to get competitive.

9:17am • #40
2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I just wish they would talke smaller steps with health care "insurance" reform and not try to take on the entire monster -- it will cost a fortune and be a huge disaster if they are not careful

9:18am • #41

Over 80% of Americans are happy with their present insurance and when you subtract from the "popular" figure of 47 million, the illegals, younger people who choose to buy SUV's, big screen TV's rather than insurance, and those who are temporarily out of work, you arrive at about 12 million with no insurance.  Medicare and Medicaide are broke, as is Social Security and the Post Office.  Why in hell's name would you want to change the system for 288 million when it is far simpler, and substantially cheaper, to address the changes for the remainder?  

Giving health care to the government is like having the post office run your medical program.  In Canada, we are heavily overtaxed, just to pay for ill gotten social programs.  In some jurisdictions, the provincial governments are taxing the sale of used homes to pay for them.  And the line ups for hospital visits remain long despite the abundance of cash thrown at health care.  And by the way, 80% of the cash that goes into health care in Canada goes to union and "association" wages. 

America!  You will rue the day that you opted for Universal One Payer Health Care.

 

 

9:18am • #42

I do, however, agree with Missy that Tort Reform should be included.

9:19am • #43

Great points! Even if you are young and want to build a family, there is the extra cost for the maternity benefit. In addition to that the waiving period from 6 months and up depending on how much you want to pay. In a recently poll, the states that had most resistance to the healthcare reform had the most uninsured population. Figure that one out! On that note, I will suggest some food for thought. If people want the government out of the healthcare, then let's privatize medicare, a program that you can choose you doctor.Reality is something needs to be done.

9:21am • #44

Several have stated they want facts and not lies. The first thing to do is not listen to obama! The next is to read the bill. I only had to read 345 pages to realize how bad this is. There is no 'public option', there is a govt option that everyone will be forced into- obama has said it may take 15 - 20 years but it will happpen. Could we not start by NOT paying for illegals to get their toe nails clipped in an ER? obama has taken cronies and his biggest voting block into consideration, congress and unions are exempt from this rediculous idea. Who is going to pay for it? You are- and it will not be cheap, it is said obama's estimate of $1 trillion is off by only $2 trillion. Healthcare needs reformed but not with the fiscally and medically irresponsible pile of BS that is being pushed hard before people actually understand what they are being fed is not chocolate pudding. If it is not good enough for congress and union employees it should not be good enough for you- an easy test.

9:26am • #45

Barry,

You have it right on, and have the experiences to make valid points. Oh and by the way I am proud to be a "TIGHTY RIGHTY"

9:27am • #46
4 Featured Posts

Dean,

I hear you... but Why are costs so high? Is it because of the obesity epidemic?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-07-27-costofobesity_N.htm

Should we be paying for people who enjoy the Bon-Bons?

The latest obesity stats are alarming to say the least and we are all paying for it already:

•Taxpayers picked up about half the $147 billion tab in 2008 through Medicare and Medicaid.

•Obese patients on Medicare spent about $600 a year more in prescription medications than patients at a healthy weight.

Do you really think you are paying too much because of the big bad insurance companies and Greedy health care professionals?

Let's call it what it is and get to the real problem with a real solution such as premiums based on a BMI.  

Health care costs have skyrocketed right in line with the obesity problem in the U.S....

http://healthyamericans.org/reports/obesity2009/

Should we all be paying for people who don't take care of themselves?

(Granted... we already are but it's only going to get higher.)

Or... should people that are obese be paying their fair share?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/magazine/16FOB-wwln-t.html

Lets call it what it really is and get to the root of the real problem.

9:28am • #47

There is no such thing as the 'public option'. It is the 'goverment option' and most people want nothing to do with it. If you do not believe everyone except congress and union employees will be on it in the future you believe Rev Wright never said a bad thing in obama's presence in 20 years. Yes, reform is needed but certainly not the fiscally and medically retarded proposal now being discussed. If it were to be so great why did congress exempt themselves and the huge democrat voting block of unions? "Common sence"? No-- it is NONSENCE!

9:30am • #48
1 Featured Post

Hmmm...

What are you paying for? I think the government and the insurance companies have both taken us hostage. If you are paying $850.00 per month for you and your wife with a $5,000.00 deductible, if you need to spend that money in a year the cost is $15,200.00 and that is in ONE YEAR!!!

If you saved that money in a private account of your own and used it only for medical expenses, you could afford treatment for almost anything within 2-3 healthy years.

The average cost of Breast cancer treatment (god forbid anyone has to endure it) is roughly $23,000.00. Which you will pay your insurance company within 2 years of monthly payments and deductible fees. Lung cancer treatment costs roughly $33,000.00

The cost of treatment has increased dramatically in the last 10 years, but it still makes very little sense to pay this money to a system that is clearly corrupt.

Reform is necessary...but it needs to be malpractice reform, tort reform, refusing and sending back illegal aliens, reforming Medicare/Medicade waste, and finally we need to be wise consumers and keep our money to ourselves.

9:34am • #49

Medicare for all.  Call your congressperson to vote for HR 676.  Forget about all the other bills in Congress.  HR 676 is Medicare for all.

9:34am • #50

I am a Canadian Independent Contractor.  Thanks to our "Socialized Health Care" I get to choose my doctor and I am not paying an astronomical monthly sum for my Health care.  No system is perfect.  Those who believe that they can get something for nothing is sadly mistaken.  I have no issues with paying higher taxes for the benefits I enjoy.  Those would speak ill against the Canadian system can choose to mortgage their homes, use their savings or borrow to go to the United States to seek "speedy medical care".  After all we live in a free society.

Juliet Williams

Proud Canadian Realtor

9:37am • #51

We ougth to stop and read the bill, then you will try to figure out who and why they are trying to dissiminate misinformation. It's only common sense!

9:47am • #52

Dean, I agree - it's all about FEAR - and those "buzz" words ALL represent FEAR... fear is the common denominator for dividing us all - UNITED we stand, DIVIDED we fail - and this is all about dividing us into HAVES and HAVE NOTS - that is exactly what the insurance industry wants and preys on us every day to perpetuate this constant level of fear.   We AS A SOCIETY must overcome our fear of change and and the status quo and learn that in a modern society, we THE PEOPLE must take control.  

Public Option?   YEP, it's an option, not a mandate - it's primary purpose is to offer an OPTION to ANYONE who wishes to subscribe, to buy health insurance from a non-profit POOL of insurers - not the government, for crying out loud.   Insurance companies must agree to a 15% administration fee (or less) in order to join the public option pool.   Other companies, in order to compete (or otherwise lose business) with the public option.   Insurance companies don't want to compete - they have their nice little monopoly set up so they can cherry pick - this is a complex web of laws and rules that have, over the past 25 or so years have basically pushed us all into a corner and when cornered, even the smallest critter will fight back.  THAT is where WE are NOW.

If we continue without reform, more and more people will end up bankrupt or without any insurnace whatsoever - and this all goes back to those HAVES among us.   Yes, YOU have it now but not forever and when you turn 50 or 60 and find out you are stuck (if you have it) and toast (if you don't) maybe then you will understand the problem.   It's really easy to sit on the sidelines and bitch about things that won't happen but you repeat them as if you really understand health care reform, when, in reality, most you naysayers don't have a clue what you are talking about.   But you are afraid (fear) so the easiest things to do is whine and complain about "more taxes" (okay, if you make more than $250K AGI, what is that less than 5% of the total public?) when in reality 95% of us will never pay another dime and actually save money BECAUSE OF THE PUBLIC OPTION that levels the playing field for US (that would be THE PEOPLE.)

It's time for the RIGHT to do the RIGHT THING and forget about making insurance executives even richer than they already are.   It's time for us to take control of our destiny and health care reform WITH THE PUBLIC OPTION is the ONLY way we can take back control.

 

9:49am • #53
Outside Blog Hit Router

I keep asking why our representatives who say they want health care for everyone, blocked legislation to allow groups to form across state lines so huge organizations - such as NAR - can buy group insurance?? No one has answered that question for me.

Changes need to be made, and many can be made without the government taking over. I imagine it will eventually be like VA care -

when my husband needs an appointment, he calls the VA. No one answers, ever. He leaves a message, including what time of day he can be there. They DO NOT call back, but simply mail him a letter (MAIL?? Are you kidding me?? Maybe they're required by law to support that government-run industry!) The letter arrives about 10 days after he called, announcing his appointment time, always in complete disregard for the time of day he requested. And the appointment is at least 3 weeks after he called. 

Another story (this happened four months ago). A friend is diagnosed at the VA with cancer. They tell him to see an oncologist asap. No one from the VA answers the phone, or returns calls. Six weeks later, he dies with no treatment, not even for pain. A week later, his funeral. Three days after the funeral, the VA calls to schedule an appointment.  There's a cost savings for you!

9:49am • #54
652,019 Points 108 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Dean - I have a pre-existing condition for which I am automatically declined for individual medical coverage.  As a self-employed person, my sole option is the Texas health insurance "risk pool", for which I readily pay, because I have seen first-hand from friends and clients how quickly someone can go broke without having medical insurance.

For my family, we pay over $1300/month for coverage.  Costs have spiraled out of control.  I know from my physician clients that some portion of this cost is due to malpractice insurance.  One of my buyers a few years ago was a high-risk obstetrician from Omaha.  He and his two partners paid $500,000 in malpractice insurance over a 10 year period - they NEVER had a claim.  However, as we all know, if a claim were ever paid in their case, the award would likely be astronomical.  This is why tort reform is probably a good thing, but try telling that to someone who just lost a baby to negligent care.  But I digress..

I am certainly in favor of changing the status quo, since it would likely benefit me in the short-term.  That being said, the current proposal being offered up as a 1000-page document is not the answer.  I am not a pundit, and I support anything that makes sense, but some of the ideas contained in this bill could lead to more government control of U.S. citizens, and I can't get behind that in any form.  I think the fear is this: if you control the health care and treatment decisions for the populace, you control them as people.  Essentially, this bill appears to give far more control over treatment decisions than the average person would ever want or even tolerate. 

I had a thought last night: the promise of affordable care is enticing for many of us (me included), but if someone in my family is denied care because of their age or another variable that is government-determined, this seems like the type of thing that would quickly turn ugly. 

What if the government were proposing to have competing grocery stores that they owned and subsidized?  Do you really think that other chains could stay in business? 

I sincerely cannot think of one government agency or initiative that provides good service, from the Department of Motor Vehicles, to the post office, or any other place where I am forced to budget a good chunk of my time if I need help.  Why is that?  Well, in my humble opinion, it's much like a new home builder that has a mortgage company that they own.  That mortgage company doesn't have to provide competitive rates OR good service because all of their business is handed to them.  If the public option did manage to drive other companies out of business, the future is a bleak one.

I agree wholeheartedly that change is needed, but the bill in its current form is not a solution. 

9:54am • #55

Judy I think that you said it better than anyone could. As a single mom and Realtor, I am one of the many unisured because I just can't afford the premium. Thankfully my kids are covered through a state-run plan for children<gasp..another govt run program>. I completely agree that something needs to be done. I have saw first hand how devastating it can be without insurance (My dad went bankrupt when he had a heart attack because he couldn't afford to pay the health care premiums.) It is a shame that the average American has to get a second job just to pay for their health insurance. Sometimes even a second job is not enough if a family is struggling to begin with. There's also the issue of if you do get sick without insurance, forget ever being able to get or afford insurance afterwards. If something isn't done I think this is going to be a huge problem as the baby boomers are getting older. I know of many who are in this situation now.

Everyone needs to come together for an intelligent conversation instead of bickering and insulting each other. Cost control is a big thing that needs to be #1 on the agenda($10+ for a band-aid is ridiculous). I am also so tired of the fear mongering produced by the healthcare industry. It won't matter what kind of plan is put before Congress it will never please everyone and there will always be "something" wrong with it.  The insurance companies are out to only protect their bottom line and will do what it takes to do so. You can never please all of the people all of the time so why not try opening our minds and compromising so that we can find some sort of solution in the middle. Take a good look at what other countries are doing. Implement what is working and improve on what's not. Stop letting the corporate big boys run the country into the ground. Think for yourself and research everything. And most importantly lose the tunnel vision and really listen to any new ideas for a solution.  

10:00am • #56
300,253 Points 27 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

Folks!

Wow - good to stir up debate!  You folks on the right - no, I am not the devil in disguise, although it seems quite popular these days to jump all over anyone proposing government help to solve a problem as off his nut!

I have read the bill.  It is a bill!  It is not yet final!  Just like a lowball offer on a home, it has yet to be finalized - and will go through considerable discussion and compromise before it is made law.  That's the way it is, and always has been.

What kind of irks me is that folks all over - educated people - DO read the bill, then pick out sections that bother them, blow them out of proporation, and then proclaim - leave things as they are!

Who are we kidding, y'all?

These same folks would contend Medicare, Social Security, Stimulus Activity, anything - wipe them all away, and let things get better - "naturally."

The flaw in the system is there are some folks out there not looking out for the public good - and the discussion going forward is all about who has the power to win - the others be damned!

Nothing is perfect - but status quo will not work! 

It's broken, gang!  It really is!

We've got to fix it - because, by itself, it won't be!  It will get worse!

And, to you "Righty Tighties" - didn't mean to offend you, but feel free to grab that label and run with it, as you need to cast blame.  But, please, keep the damn drawn mustaches off of Obama's picture!

Again, appreciate the comments!

DEAN & DEAN'S TEAM CHICAGO

10:00am • #57

You're 100% correct there needs to be a complete overhaul in the medical system, but not in how most people think.  We should go to an all cash system.  People would have to think a little differently about how they treat their bodies through the course of their lives instead of relying on pills or the next "miracle drug".

When did all these "diseases" start?  Within the past 100 years with the advent of prepared foods and modern conveniences ridding your daily routine of exercise.  Government propaganda and big dollar prescription companies have most of this country fooled!  Sorry Dean, I'm no doctor, but you're probably taking placebos.

I couldn't agree more with most of you posters.  KEEP BIG GOVERMENT OUT OF THE HEALTHCARE BUSINESS!!! 

10:00am • #58
116,026 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Obesity is another topic for a another blogpost. But if you want to know why America is fat, read the bestseller The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan.

10:00am • #59

Dean,

I too, had to change my deductible. I'm healthy, take NO prescriptions,but fear-of-the-catastrophy makes it important for my to keep paying those over-the-top premiums!

Sidebar: My Dentist no longer accepted my dental insurance, so I dropped the coverage.Just last week, getting my teeth cleaned & x-rayed cost $150 !!! I like to get my teeth cleaned 4 times a year. THAT won't be happening NOW!

Kathy Opatka

10:01am • #60

Socialist, Fascist or Free Market?

These words are not "buzz words" they are political realities.  To call them "Buzz words" is a cop-out.

Socialism- Where industry/the means of production are owned and controlled by the government.

Fascism- Where the industry/means of production are owned by private individuals or corporations but controlled by the government.

Free Market-  Where industry and means of production are owned and controlled by private corporations and the governments role is to insure fair competition among all willing providers of such goods and services (to avoid monopoly).

So what do we have?  Currently a system where there are few options - as dictated by the government.  We are not allowed to shop for health care across state lines.  Government dictates what insurance companies are required to cover.  Government dictates who is allowed to compete.

Who would control the "Public Option"?  The Government.  Further the "public  option" is designed to eliminate option all together.  Here is how.

The current health insurance providers have to make a profit to stay afloat.  If the government can run a health care program that will compete with current insurance providers without making a profit or even breaking even (the government is always over budget), how long will the current providers last?  Not long. 

If an employer has a bad year and is faced with the option of cutting jobs or health care benefits when there is a "public option", How long will the employer continue to provide private health care?  Not long. 

If the government (specifically the Democrats) wanted to make health care more affordable they would get out of the way. 

1. They have consistently blocked efforts to create association health plans which would benefit realtors, mortgage brokers and any other members of professional associations.  We could have the bargaining power that big labor has and enjoy the same health insurance benefits.

2. They have consistently blocked efforts to tear down walls preventing interstate and national competition among health insurance providers (i.e. you can buy car ins. from out of state, but heaven forbid you be able to buy health ins. from out of state.)  

3 They could allow people to buy medical care that meets their needs and not "universal needs" (i.e. if. I buy health care policy I don't one that will cover sex change operation, treatment for STDs, or a hair transplant because my self-esteem is too low).  But they have deemed it necessary to make all of us pay for all these things regardless of the lifestyle we choose.

4. They could get out of the way of tort reform and allow common sense caps on damages paid out as a result of medical errors and omissions/malpractice.  (But at least the trial lawyers are rich and happy.)

There is a way to have affordable health care insurance.  Frankly it would look a lot like car insurance in terms of choices and risk tolerance.  But the Democrats have made that illegal.  We need health care reform.  It should start by throwing the bums out.

10:01am • #61
4 Featured Posts

Dean - Let's try reducing the Health Care bill from 1100 pages to 15.  Then, perhaps, we could understand it and there would be verifiable accountability.  I agree a change is required, but if the change means there a 1,000 different ways of interpreting how our health car will get administered, there will be 1,000 different ways to become frustrated with the "new system".  The sad truth, however, is that No health care will become affordable until we get our arms around legal fees and lawsuits.  Tort reform is the BIG issue.

10:02am • #62

When my daughter needed an appendectomy several years back, we had great insurance, affordable even at the self employed rate.  We purchased it from a Wisconsin company and were happy.  In the middle of the one month hospital stay prior to her surgery (very complicated), we had no worries.  Little beknownst to us, our insurance company was ordered to cease and desist in Minnesota by a certain date, two days prior to her surgery.  The hospital was on top of it, and notified us in the room, and the surgeon that we were about to lose our insurance.  We contacted our agent, who found us ridiculous gap insurance, and the surgeon promised to do the procedure at midnite if it did not go through!  We paid thousands for the surgery and the aftermath to our new, improved Minnesota sanctioned company.  Open the borders and let competition reign!  Putting the public option is like placing a Walmart in a small town, takes out the competition, and becomes the only game in town.  Unfortunately, the government may share the mercenary tendencies, but not the business acumen of that retail giant.

10:05am • #63

Very interesting comments from all for this controversial topic.  My take is there needs to be a paradigm shift with all of us including those with and without insurance for the benefit of society and our medical future.

If your house needs a new roof, you don't submit an insurance claim to the Home Owners Insurance Company for the cost of the roof, the same holds true for filling up your tank or an oil change for your car, you wouldn't claim that either.  Your body requires maintenance and tuneups just like your possessions.  Those are the costs of owning something.  Where did we go wrong with health insurance concepts thinking it should cover ALL medical bills including well care?  Consider this, If we all paid for sniffles, warts, rashes and minor ailments and saved the insurance for real issues then many things would change.  1. Everyone pays on their own for basics and would see what the costs from the hospitals and doctors were instead of paying their $10 copay and walking away (Have you ever really read the bill from the hospital - absurd).  2.  The doctor's offices could cut their staff by not filing claims thereby cutting their overhead.  3. Since we would be looking at the bills, we could error check the accounting and negotiate if there was an problem.  4. The system would get more efficient because it would now be run like a for profit business.  5.  Health businesses would get better and less expensive through competition and reputation (just like dental offices). 6.  I can also see major medical insurance companies encouraging their plan members to lead a more healthy lifestyle through incentives for verifiable healthy activites.  I can think of several other benefits that would be an off shoot from this concept that would benefit everyone including doctors, hospitals, insurance companies and most importantly consumers.  I would love the get feedback on this post.

My insurance is $1000 / month for my wife and I both for catastrophic coverage with a $2500 deductible each.  We are in our mid fifties and both fairly healthy, work out regularly.  I choose to go to a local GP doc who's practice doesn't do insurance AT ALL.  His in office visits and in office procedures cost about 30% less than other docs in the area.  I think his practice is doing very well.  It's always busy.

10:06am • #64

Spot on. There has got to a better way. If you are not the member of a large group or relatively young affordable healthcare is basically very tough to get. If you have a few risk factors the cost is astronomical.

I don't want to rewrite your blog so I'll stop here. BTW on presciuption drug costs. Check with Costco. You might be pleasently suprised.

10:08am • #65

Last night when I got home my copy of divorce papers was in my mailbox. I am 57.  My 62 year old husband - previous provider of my health insurance - found a girlfriend and divorced me.  I thought the health insurance would be the least of my problems.  I'm a young 57,  healthy and active - but I WAS TURNED DOWN FOR NOT HAVING AN ELECTIVE SURGERY. Now I am scrambling to find something - anything.  To quote Maxine, or Mae West or whoever  "this age is NOT for sissies."  Whatever / whoever you choose to support, my feeling is that our elected officials must have the exact same choices as we do - or don't as the case may be.  Only then will they know how to represent their constituants.

10:08am • #66
Outside Blog

I am about to go off of a company sponsored health plan and I am absolutely terrified.  I take a medication for a pre-exiting medical condition--a relatively minor ailment that costs $1000.00 per month without a prescription plan.  Without this medication a minor ailment becomes a debilitating problem physically and emotionally.

I know I'm not alone.  We MUST do something or this will be the demise of our work force.  This problem has been swept under the rug far too long.  I don't have the answers, but at least the problem is out in the open.

 

Barb Mihalik

Coldwell Banker Sea Coast Realty, Wilmington, NC

10:16am • #67

No matter how one twists and turns the argument it's still socialism. Socialism is defined as:

Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Health care accounts up for one sixth of the American economy.

There is not one socialist country in the world that provides a standard of living equal to ours; even for the poor. I think most level headed individuals can agree that socialism does not work.

I also know that many people who become Realtors do so because they want to get paid based on their own merit and hard work; which happens to be the fundamental principle of Capitalism not Socialism.

The problem with health care in this country is the cost not the quality. I don't think anyone can argue that we have probably the best quality of healthcare in the world. With that said does the socialization of an entire system reduce cost and improve efficiency? No one has ever proved that to me. Anything that the government runs seems to be more costly and inefficient than the private sector. I spent twenty years working for the New York City Police Department and have first hand experience working for a very large city government. I can tell you that there is more waste, incompetence and inefficiency in large government bureaucracies than you can imagine. 

The NYC Police Department was the largest police department in the country.  Although we had the best cops in the world, the city government was grossly incompetent. Our precincts often had no heat, no air conditioning, floor tiles worn down to bare cement, filthy rodent infestated conditions and a total absence of building maintenance. We paid for our own uniforms and weapons. We even had to bring our own toilet paper because they often ran out; and supplies could only be ordered on a specific schedule based on budget shortfalls.

In contrast, I recently worked for a privately run corporation; Devry University. The difference was astounding!

No one can argue that something has to be done about our current health care system but be careful about this plan they are trying to push through right now. DO NOT TRUST any politician that tells you, "we need to do this right away"; or "we don't have time to read the entire bill". What is the urgency to get this passed before the end of the year? Why now when we are in such a deep recession? These are obvious questions that have to make you wonder. If you have a roof leak on your house and you're having financial difficulties, do you replace the whole roof or just patch the leak to get through the storm?

There's much more behind this. Think about all of the money our politicians will be in control of if this passes. More money, more power, more control equals more corruption. Also keep this in mind. Right now if private companies are corrupt we have government agencies to oversee them. Who will oversee the government in a socialized health care system?   

If cost is the problem then let's focus on reducing cost. Our government, both republicans and democrats, have avoided this issue forever. Why? I think only a Washington insider can answer that. I would venture to say that there are many back room deals our representatives make with lobbyists and other interest groups that have something to do with that. But I can tell you this. None of it makes sense and all of us should be asking a lot more questions before we go ahead and make such drastic changes to a system that will change our lives and the lives of our children forever.

Do you really think that you are going to get this great healthcare system for free or less than what you pay now? Think again. They will have to get the money from us no matter what. There aren't enough rich in this country to pay for this. So be prepared for your income taxes to go up, a Value Added Tax and skyrocketing energy taxes (remember cap and trade?). Figure what the additional tax rates will be (which they are not telling us) and then see if you could have purchased private insurance for less. In essence you will be paying the same, if not more, for inferior care that resembles your local DMV instead of your own doctors office.

I truly believe that if the current plan does ever get passed the least of our problems will be running out of toilet paper.

10:20am • #68
Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Seems like some people think that the health care system that their congressman and fereral employees have is GOVERNMENT RUN...IT IS NOT. It is government administered. Here is the plan you want...that they won't give you.

Health

Federal Employees Health Benefits Program

<!--Enter Main Content Here -->

The Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) Program can help you and your family meet your health care needs. Federal employees, retirees and their survivors enjoy the widest selection of health plans in the country. You can choose from among Consumer-Driven and High Deductible plans that offer catastrophic risk protection with higher deductibles, health savings/reimbursable accounts and lower premiums, or Fee-for-Service (FFS) plans, and their Preferred Provider Organizations (PPO), or Health Maintenance Organizations (HMO) if you live (or sometimes if you work) within the area serviced by the plan.

Use this site to compare the costs, benefits, and features of different plans. We chose the different benefit categories based on enrollee requests, differences among plans, and simplicity. However, we urge you to consider the total benefit package, in addition to service and cost, and provider availability when choosing a health plan.

The plan brochures show you what services and supplies are covered and the level of coverage. Review the brochures carefully. The brochures are formatted to ensure they are all organized alike. You can get brochures from the health plans or your human resource office. When it comes to your health care, the best surprise is no surprise.

WHEN THE GOVERNMENT OFFERS YOU THEIR PLAN AND NOT THE "PUBLIC OPTION" YOU WILL HAVE MANY PROVIDER COMPETITING FOR YOUR BUSINESS. CLICK ON "PLAN BROCHURE" LINK ABOVE AND TELL YOUR CONGRESSMAN...I WANT THAT PLAN!

First read the bill being proposed...compare to what government employees and your congressman receives and you will see you are being offered crap, and many of you think you are at McDonald's..."Your Loving It".

10:26am • #69

Dean, Dean.   Public Option is just a veiled way of saying "single payer" healthcare.   That's the ultimate goal of the people behind Public Option.

 

I saw a great sign at a recess rally this weekend.  It said "My health insurance premium shouldn't be more than my mortgage".  I agree.  BUT the question is "WHO IS DRIVING THE BUS?  WHO IS IN CONTROL?"

Most realtors I've met (the good ones anyway) don't cherish being told what to do by anyone.  They are constantly motivated by creating their destiny.  They create their success.  To be "given" something doesn't fit with the human spirit of achievement.

(1) TORTE REFORM.  Doctors have to pay astronomical rates to protect themselves and their families from lawyers and bad lawsuits.  Doctors increase costs because they have to practice defensive medicine.

(2) No one in this country is denied healthcare if they show up at an emergency room.  My personal visits to the emergency room with my kids show signs that offer interpreters for every language.  I see many people there who don't speak English and they are being accommodated AND TREATED.

(3)  INSURANCE INDUSTRY REFORM.  To create competition for the healthplan that my family chooses.

Do you really believe the lie?  If we have a public option, access will not be improved.  What gets my goat is that the people who would institute the public option would give the government (them) lots of control.  The lie that the supporters believe is that they will have better healthcare.

The truth:  I personally know doctors who will be leaving the field because they won't have an even PROFITABLE business.  Less income and more patients minus rising expenses and malpractice insurance.  Why would they continue doing what they do?

 

I know there is a compromise out there.  We can't demonize free-enterprise (i.e., insurance companies and healthcare providers) to get there.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.  We have a working system that needs to be tweaked.  We don't need to turn the world upside down for single payer, public option healthcare.

10:29am • #70

And I almost forgot the most obvious to me since I've been in real estate:

TAX BENEFITS to small business people, independent contractors and entrepreneurs just like the corporations have.  Its incredible what a disadvantage this gives a family when they are productive, small business people.

10:30am • #71
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I read this post and also read through all the comments.  It's great to see a healthy debate about this.  I wanted to point to a few of the comments that I feel are spot on.

I have to agree with Katerina #8

And Missy's comment #11

Jason's comment is very well put out there #55

I agree that something needs to be done but is the answer really govt controlled health care?  And I see a lot of "lefty's" scared of this plan too.  This shouldn't be about right or left but instead about what is best for our families and country.

10:31am • #72

I don't have the answers, either, but I've studied history long enough to know that government involvement creates more problems than it solves.  Seriously, do we want our healthcare system being administered by the same wonderful folks who brought us the Postal Service and the DMV?

10:31am • #73

Dean, great post. Great debates. Many opinions given. Number one need as I see it is tort reform. That alone would reduce healthcare costs an immediate 30%. We've elected to drop healthcare insurance. We pay cash and low and behold, when the doctor's office asks us what coverage we have... we get a 30% discount for paying cash. Now why do you think a bunch of lawyers in Washington never want to hear that? We are also more motivated to watch everything we eat.

2nd idea: Stop all lawyer advertising that has to do with lawsuits. When they stopped tobacco advertising, tobacco use came down a large percentage within 5 years. We have way too many lawyers in America per capita.

3rd idea: Very similar, stop all pharmaceutical ads. Everyone runs to their doctor now telling the expert what meds they should be on. What's the doctor to do? And why in the world would anybody take Ambien? "If you have suicidal thoughts, are more outgoing or more aggressive... have hallucinations..." How did this one get FDA approval? Try Melatonin if you can't sleep... it's natural and works for about $4. a bottle.

Keep em coming... Blessings.

10:33am • #74

Just another quick note to address what Larry, a fellow Tennessean posted earlier(don't mean to hijack Dean):

Here in Tennessee our state government implemented the same program that they are proposing on the national level. It was called Tenncare, but as you may suspect, it was a disaster. The state budget was quickly in the red, and the political leaders attempted to increase taxes in a major way. Since the promise of reduced cost was a major selling point in passing the bill, the idea of increasing taxes did not appeal to the voters.

Without the abilily to raise taxes, the Tenncare program was stripped of most of it's coverage. The promise of reducing the cost of healthcare by using a government program proved to be just another way to get get votes.

Larry, the problem with Tenncare was there were either no checks and balances in the system to keep costs down or the checks and balances that were in place were flawed. My kids were a part of the program until it was done away with and let me tell you, doctors took advantage of the system. The doctors would charge twice as much if you had Tenncare versus if you didn't. Tenncare had caps but the doctors would charge the max that they could regardless of what they normally charged. Personally I have called to get a non-emergency appt for one of my kids and been told that if they have Tenncare to go ahead and take my kids to the ER. The doctor's office was busy and said they would just sign off to the insurance that it was an emergency. Imagine the increased costs if hundreds of doctors did this. And I heard many other stories like this from others. There was also the problem of who they allowed in the program. All uninsured kids were covered regardless but for an adult to be covered, there was an income cap to qualify. You would think that would be a good thing but the income cap was so low that lots of hardworking people who genuinely needed a helping hand didn't qualify. There are exceptions to this but the majority that ended up with coverage were the ones that didn't work, lived off the govt, and milked the system for all that it was worth. Now that you have mentioned this, I think Tenncare could be a good model of what would work and what wouldn't.   

10:36am • #75
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I understand Dean.  We have pretty decent insurance, but it has gone from $600 a month to $1400 a month in 6 years.  What will it cost in another 6 years??

I believe THE issue to address is "pre-existing conditions".  Because of my daugher's asthma we are held hostage by our insurance....they can charge anything they want.  We can't shop rates or plans with anyone else if we want her asthma covered and that's pretty much all we use the plan for.  (She was in ICU for 5 days this spring, the bill was $6000.  If we didn't have insurance and paid privately for that it would have been astronomically higher...we checked into it). (And yes, the hospital admits that there is a surcharge on everything to cover their costs associated with the uninsured that come to the ER).

So to your point about options:  We don't have any that are viable.  We can't shop competitively between insurers (pre-existing condition), we can't pay privately (lack of clout makes charges 3 times higher at a minimum).

Without competition this isn't a free market capitalist system.

Whatever house or senate bill addresses removal of the pre-existing conditions issue will get my backing.

Best to you and yours,

Lynda

10:39am • #76

I'm for a public option, without a doubt. 

A free market is wonderful for many things, but is often poor at making decisions for the long term. Witness things such as pollution, GM, Wall Street, and the home-buying speculators so near and dear to all of our hearts.  Long-term rational decisions are clouded by the need to make the next quarter's profits look good, to benefit current management, to "maximize value for shareholders".  That's OK if you're selling razor blades, but not appropriate when you're selling healthcare.

I spent over 10 years working as a financial manager in the managed care industry.  Many people in the health care industry have their hearts in the right place.  But here are just a few of the things that money is wasted on:

1) Underwriting:  Who to cover, who not to cover.  Plan development and determination of suitable premiums.

2) Recruiting providers to the network, evaluating them, negotiating with them individually for an agreement, keeping their paperwork updated so they stay in the network (or, for some insurance companies & providers, failing to do so!).  Calculating their bonuses if they behave.

3) Staff in every provider office and hospital in the country to navigate all the different insurance plans, bill the insurers multiple times to try to get claims paid, and generally deal with the mountain of paperwork that insurance generates.

4) Management (i.e. rationing) of the care that patients receive to ensure the company's bottom line.   I'm not against all management, let's be clear.  Managing care correctly can ensure that things are done right, or help to manage the course of long-term conditions like diabetes.  But I see no purpose in every insurance company in every market formulating and paying for duplicative "management" standards.  Example:  One nurse case manager to visit all the United Healthcare patients in nursing home A once a week, another to visit the Blue Cross patients in the same home, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

5) Marketing of insurance plans to employers and individuals.

6) Marketing by drug companies. 

7) Liability insurance.

8) Software development to integrate the claims, the provider system, the multiplicity of plans that customers are enrolled in, and the underwriting so they can figure out what claims to pay and not to pay.  A huge duplicative cost.

This is just a short list off the top of my head.

A government agency would also have administrative costs.  However, many of the costs above would be eliminated, and those remaining would at least not be duplicative. 

Some folks are concerned about the role of the government in creating standards of care.  I don't understand why you are not much more frightened to have companies with a profit motive creating those standards!  I certainly am.

For those who have a particular concern about abortion, end of life care, etc:  Let's get controversial bits out of the bill and concentrate on the parts that we can all agree on.  Let's keep our eye on the ball.

The bill as currently presented is nowhere near perfect.  Tort reform is certainly needed.  I would also like to see every member of Congress required to sign up permanently for the public plan if such is passed. 

I have written to my elected representatives telling them what I think, and I urge you all to do the same.  Don't just express yourself here on Active Rain.  Tell your Congressperson and your Senator what you think.  If nothing else, that will reserve your complaining rights in the future.  If you don't speak up to the people making decisions, then remember, no complaining later from either side!

P.S. Yes, we have insurance.  Individual insurance, insane costs and a $7,500 deductible.  We're in for about $10K per year before we even see a doctor.  And we're pretty healthy, don't smoke...  I'd be thrilled to pay taxes instead of premiums, and I'd sleep better at night knowing I'm covered and all my fellow citizens are too.

10:40am • #77
4 Featured Posts

Hey Dean,

Mind if I hang my license at your office and collect a portion of your commissions?

Thanks!

 

10:40am • #78

Hi Dean, Well said! I'm going through a tough time with my father who has Liver Cancer and End Stage Liver Desease... Who new that after receiving only $2,700 in medications my father would hit what Anthem Blue Cross calls "The Donut Hole" and not be covered for his Meds until he (my brother and I) pay $4,300 out of pocket or Jan 1st rolls around again. He's only been on his medication since April and he's hit the limit in August!

I urge everyone to look into the current policy they have and call your provider to ask questions! Just because we send the premiums in each month, trust me, the insurance giants have a million ways to get out of paying... coverage caps, gaps, limits, etc.

We need some innovation in health care, Americans have to stop fleecing each other!

10:42am • #79

@ Laura:

Unless you are the driving force behind the Congressmen and Women who are pushing for health care reform, I'd like to respectfully request that you not add fuel to the fire by claiming that you know what intention of "the people behind the public option" is and essentially calling them liars. There are millions of people behind a public option, and it's not only unfair to lump them all into one characterrization...much less a negative one.

Are there some in favor of a single payor model? Of course. Are there others opposed to any public option, absolutely. And they are all entitled to their opinion.

I also would like to clarify your comment about emergency room care. Have you ever tried walking in to a family practice office to ask for prenatal care or child immunications or for a wierd looking skin thing without insurahce? If you want the care, you have to pay...and going to the emergency room every time you have an ailment is not a viable optiion for more reasons that I could enumerate here.

By most statistical measures (lifespan, infant mortality, cost % of GDP, administrative cost as % of total cost), our nation's healt care system borders on embarrassing. I don't doubt for a moment that the expertise of our doctors is, by and large, among the best in the world. But in my opinion and based on the facts I've seen, we have a long, long way to go before we can claim to have world class healt care.

If our system is so great, why do so few industrialized nations emulate it? My personal opinion is that it's because it clearly doesn't work. When you have time, have a look at Singapore's health care system. It's not the only way, but by most measures, their system is not only vastly more effective, it costs a fraction what ours does.

10:44am • #80
17 Featured Posts

This is a nice healthy debate, but one thing is certain something needs to be done.

My 27 year old brother (perfectly healthy) independant contractor  WITH INSURANCE  got pneumonia a few months ago, and ended up on life support in ICU for 3 weeks due to the highly infectious bacteria. His hospital bills so far have topped the $300,000 mark, and insurance is now saying they won't pay and are investigating the past 5 years of his health history looking for some kind of pre-existing condition. Well..we'll see how this all turns out, but who wants to bet that they will NOT pay the percentage of the bill in his insurance policy. If they don't pay..he will go bankrupt at 27. As this happens more and more the costs will continue to rise and more and more will come out of the taxpayers pocket.

So for those who think health care reform will be a total rip-off of your hard earned money...just wait until the day the insurance you have been paying for slams the door on you when you need them to come through. You are already being ripped off..by the whims of big health care companies.

I'm not saying the current bill is right, I'm not even saying this country can afford it..no matter how you slice it..we can't even afford the status quo. I imagine if this just this intelligent group of people commenting in this thread could sit down at a table for a month...we'd have this whole thing figured out as a win win for everyone.

Congress..not so much.

10:46am • #81
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My plan with State Farm is $2400 a year with a $2,500 deductible which means I haven't used it since 1999 when I had a hot appendix. 

If I want to visit my doctor, I just pay for it.  I don't take any medication. 

Eat for health and exercize for fitness and doctor visits will be minimal.  Don't eat foods full of chemicals and don't feed them to our children. 

I have known so many who, with the "good" plans run to the doctor for anything because it's "free".  HA!  Nothing is free.  My plan is for catastrophe, I pay as I go for a check up. 

If the fast food restaurants were to disappear tomorrow, I believe that doctor visits would be reduced dramatically. 

Folks with good affordable health insurance plans live in states that have them.  Connecticut residents cannot buy the policy I have.  Insurance plans can't cross state lines and that's criminal.  Remove the state barriers and limit plaintiff jury awards and health costs would go down dramatically. 

 

 

 

10:46am • #82

The rule that prevents independent contractors for forming a group is a big obstacle in our way.  If the million members of NAR were able to negotiate for group health insurance, I'll bet we could get a decent rate.  Even if a state association could offer group health insurance it would help, but most states have rules against independent people banding together.

 

 

10:48am • #83

Have you ever looked at an HSA - Health Savings Account? They are a great option - unfortunately Soros, Pelosi, and Obama want to abolish them.

Nancy Pelosi started the whole NAZI thing - she should be ashamed and should apologize.

Compared to the rapacious TAXES you and I pay, health care is insignificant.

I see a complete lack of logic as to how having a taxpayer supported option will reduce costs. Nothing the gov't has ever gotten involved in has resulted in lower costs.

The Hitler moustache was displayed by a Democrat at Barney Frank's town hall by the way.

I know full well what socialism is. I have vistied socialist countries, and my degree is in gov't studies. Soros, Reid, Pelosi, Frank, and Obama are socialists by their own admissions.

The VAST MAJORITY of citizens who have actually read the house plan think it stinks - regardless of what party they wre with.

The gov't has no business whatsoever in taking over health care - you can deny that is what the goal is,  but Frank and Obama said it. I suggest you stop relying on NBC and read the bill for yourself.

If you are an independent (righty tighties - left wing Kennedy supporter) I'll eat my hat. Do some research into Soros.

Public option = single payer = gov't run health care = gov't controlled health care = gov't controlled people = socialism

10:50am • #84

@Suzie & George:

I would like to offer a contrary opinion that a public health care option is not socialism...or rather if a public option is socialism, then so is the US postal service, Medicaire, the national interstate system, and any other number of services provided by the government and paid for by tax revenue.

I will agree that there are elements of socialism in many parts of modern government. In fact, the very nature of health insurance (or any insurance for that matter) looks very socialist. You don't pay for health insurance in proportion to your need for health care. If you have health insurance and are sick, you are being subsidized by the whole group of those insured. In effect, the haves (the healthy ones) are paying to help out the have nots (the ones needing care whose cost exceeds the premiums they pay).

Our government offering a public option does not mean that we would wake up a socialist republic the day after the bill is signed. You point a very important fact in your post...that health care amounts to 1/6 of our GDP. In our business, we are encouraged to look at and learn from best practices. However, so many Americans are so fearful of the unknown that they are wiilling to ignore best practices in health care around the world.

It's very easy to research which countries are able to provide quality care at a vastly lower % of GDP than we are. Unfortunately, instead of accepting that there might be a better model in place (used over and over all over the industrialized world in fact), many people cling to anecdotal stories about single individuals who had issues with health service in their country (delayed hip replacements, experimental drugs denied, etc.).

I think most people would agree that regardless of what health care system any country has, there will always be people who don't get the care they deserve.

It will be a very sad day when so many of the people who are so vocally opposed to a public option lose their coverage because they become sick or lose their job. We know it as independent contractors, but many Americans just want to keep their $50 or $100 per month empolyer provided insurance. They don't realize that their policy costs 5 to 10 times that and that ultimately, they pay for it through their salary anyway.

10:58am • #85

Dean I agree there are definite things that need to be fixed to correct the underlying problems with health care but turning it over to the government who has no track record of saving money on anything and creating more problems then it solves and taking freedom of choice away from the American people is wrong. Freedom of choice is one the founding principles of our republic.

It is what the founding fathers fight a war to protect.

Go to this link at Heritage.org, it states the problem and provides a solid solution to fix the problem and actual reform healthcare.

Sean Robison

11:07am • #86

Something should have been done 50+ years ago.  It's a mess.  The healthy pay for the overweight, the smokers, etc.  I read an article on CNN about how people call the ambulance to take them to the ER for things that are NOT emergencies.  They should be allowed to refuse to transport somebody where it's not a true emergency and even fine and or charge them with a crime for abusing the system.

The people should take part of the blame as well for not taking care of themselves better when they know they should.

I went for a CT scan today that cost me $675.00.  If I had insurance, it would have been up to $4,000.00.  Now, you tell me what good it does having insurance when places raise their prices by 500%.

What a mess....................

11:10am • #87
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Hi Dean,   Nice overview of a difficult topic.  Predictably, some choose to repeat the scare tactics and slogans of those who benefit from the current system.  As long as the insurance companies control this market we will continue to be overwhelmed.  Lets get a revamped health care bill then move on to tort reform !

11:13am • #88
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I get Coverage from the California Association of Realtors.  Yes it is expensive, but we have taken on a high deductible coverage with a Medical Savings Account.  Basically I am paying no more than before but get to put a huge chunk in the bank if we do not need to use it.  If I need it I pay no more.

Single Payer is really about destroying private insures and government interfering with our lives.  If they really wanted to end the "crises" there are plenty of things they could do.  Allow more groups.  Tax deductibility for the self employed, funds for those on the low end to buy into the private group of their choice.  Take the shackles off of drug companies; if you are going to die anyway why not take a chance on a new drug.  Protect the patents of the drug companies from over seas poachers.  Our drug cost are high because other nations (even those that have the money) do not pay their fair share.  I agree people should be able to get on plans with pre-existing condition, however, those that skipped coverage to avoid paying a premium over the years should have a huge deductible.

We have not even gone into how lawyers and government regulations are driving cost.  As an aside one of the big arguments you hear for Gay Marriage is hospital visits.  Well just change the damn privacy laws the government has imposed, don't ruin marriage.

Now to my own embarsement.  I had to put the family on Medical for about 8 months.  It was free and we kept our same doctors.  Did not skip a beat.  However, when I got money and wanted to go back to private health care the government made me jump through huge hoops and almost impossible to get off the system.  They wanted to keep me in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Goverment plans are about controlling you and keeping buareacrats employeed.

11:13am • #89
4 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Dean,

You're spot on about Blue Cross. I had them for over 20 years and then I turned 50 and WOW! My premiums started soaring every year until I was paying $1800/mth just for me. But that's their game plan. Their whole business model is designed for automatic self induced atrition set a 50 years old. They don't want older folks because their risk analysis actuaries say that's when most folks start the inevitable decline.

I finally went to Kaiser about 10 years ago and I couldn't be happier. I just turned 64 and had a bi-lateral knee replacement (both knees at once for the dumb ole lay person like me). It's been a $50,000 procedure so far and I'm less than $1500 out of pocket. My whole hospital stay (4days) and surgery totaled $34,k and only cost me $1200. The other $300 has been co-pays for Radiology, PT, Meds and f/u office visits. Add to that that my Kaiser experience thus far has been the best service I've ever had with any company anytime. Even Marriott which is a pretty hard act to follow when it comes to service and customer satisfaction.

I was so happy with the treatment I recieved from Kaiser that I had to write a post about it as well as send "what a guy" letter out to all the doctors, nurses, PT's, hospital et.al. Here's the link to the post. If you get a chance check it out but by all means give Kaiser a good look and consideration.

http://activerain.com/blogsview/1170181/a-most-unforgettable-experience

 

11:16am • #90

The government run health option is not an option but a HUGE tax on me to cover some one else's insurance - i am not for Government Run option. VA care is far worse than the care for our Congressional Reps.

Vets PAID for their care by risking their lives. Medicare has been paid by every taxpayer - it is not FREE - the same government spent our "Social Security Trust" on wars, pork, auto companies, and any thing else they wanted - without a care for our retirement. Now they are cuting medicare benefits - do not put your head in the sand when it comes to government health care.

They are not offering FREE care nor are they Offering Quality care...

Please do not be confused - NOT FREE and NOT QUALITY. Government is not the solution and it is NEVER CHEAPER! Think the $100 toilet seat!

11:16am • #91
Outside Blog

Quick personal story.

I left the Navy after 4 years to return to California and start school. Shortly after arriving I injured my thumb playing basketball. I went to the local VA and had it checked out. After half a day, a 5 minute exam and an x-ray, I was told it was fine and sent home.

That was on a Saturday, Monday morning I got a call from the radiologist saying the thumb was broken and that I should come back in. I went to rite aid and bought a finger splint, went on-line and ordered some medical coverage and have never been to another VA.

I have never felt so neglected and uncared for as I did on that half a day many years back. I still remember the real vet's, with the real wounds and health issues. I remember the looks in many of their faces and the feelings of despair and it was then that I decided I would never again be in this place.

11:26am • #92

i AGREE! I have just recently been so lucky myself to encounter AWFUL allergies!! I can't stand it! I need to go see  a specialist but the thought of the cost is keeping me away. It is just ridiculous. Something needs to give.

11:38am • #93

Dean, great post, I agree that something has to be done. But I am against the 'public option'. It sounds good in theory, it really does. I do not see why it had to be 'rushed through' Congress and why countless Americans had to riot to get their representative's attention to stop them from passing it; but that's another topic/another blog/another day.

 

There are three groups reading/posting here:

1. Those who believe that Obama and his administration truly have the public's best interest at heart, and that any change is good change.

2. Another camp thinks Obama is an evil socialist and nothing he tries to pass through should go.

3. And yet the third group: We know something has to be done, the current system is far from perfect and does need an overhaul. I also think this third group believes that we do not have to throw countless tax dollars of future generations at a problem that SHOULD be cleaned up in the private sector by removing barriers to competition and regulation.

This type of spending to 'even out equality' has already been demonstrated by the state of California, and they have mailed out I.O.U's in lieu of tax returns this year! I can't speak on behalf of the first two types of folks listed above, but I can speak for that third group. I think we all can identify with John Stossel's recent blog on 'Obamacare': "In place of the variety of products that competition would generate, we would be forced "choose" among virtually identical insurance plans. Government would define these plans down to the last detail. Every one would have at least the same "basic" coverage, including physical exams, maternity benefits, well-baby care, alcoholism treatment, and mental-health services. Consumers could not buy a cheap, high-deductible catastrophic policy. Every insurance company would have to use an identical government-designed pricing structure. Prices would be the same for sick and healthy". Sounds good, right? In theory, yes! In reality, no! Longer wait times for care. Tax dollars thrown at people who refuse to implement healthier living into their lives but are still willing to see a doctor on a monthly basis because they don't 'feel' healthy. So what is the solution exactly? For Democrats to reach across that aisle, and assure those of us who are not on board with the rest of them, that they don't want to squash competition, which leads to lower prices and better care. Show us a bill we can READ and decide if that's the one we want passed.

Choices in health care have dropped in the past decade due to an increase in the 'lawsuit lottery' and the cost of insurance for health care providers - let's do something about that! I would like everyone to re-think their definition of the current situation: In terms of the world and health care, we are not in a crisis. Bankruptcy is not a crisis, it's a terrible terrible thing, but no one loses their life or the life of their child. A crisis is when thousands of people die of a curable disease, such as milaria. I do not have health insurance right now, but I do not believe that those who make over $350,000 a year should subsidize my health care by laws sanctioned by our government - I should be managing my money better so that health care is part of my budget - period. Health care is expensive, it's never going to be cheap. There is a better way in our free market. It starts with limiting the public's ability to become millionare's off of botched health care procedures, removing the regulations that keep other companies from jumping into the insurance industry, and keeping 'risk based' pricing - those who don't take care of themselves should be paying more, not the same as those who exercise and eat right.

Now let's take all this spirited debate and put it into action: Removing the barriers that prevent us from forming our own 'group option' for the self employed!

11:39am • #94

Everyone has an opinion and everyone has a story. Too many are one illness away from bankruptcy because they've lost coverage and/or can't afford the premiums -- through no fault of their own.The present bill is certainly not perfect, but it has obviously gotten people's attention. Now what? It obviously isn't gong to become law in its present form, but something needs to happen.

The present health insurance situation truly discourages people from starting or continuing small businesses and/or from being independent contractors. Has anyone factored in the impact of this on the economy over the long haul? Small businesses grow into larger businesses, pay taxes, and employ people. If the startups don't happen, neither does the growth.

Ask the part-time realtors you know why they work at their "other" job -- for many, it's the insurance coverage. Alllowing associations like NAR to offer group coverage nationally would be a solution for many in our business who are paying way too much or going without. In other industries with independent contractors, association group coverage could be an answer also.

Any "public option" should include all elected officials and government employees and their families. It's the only way to make sure the coverage is what it should be.

11:48am • #95
Outside Blog

Great article. You really summed it up. I laugh when I read people who say my coverage will not be available. How can they say that, when no bill has been presented? Lots of misinformation all funded by the insurance companies. We had the catastrophic policy for awhile, when my husband turned 62 we had to increase the deductible to $12,000 just to afford the coverage! Outrageous. Between 61 & 65 the insurance companies sock it to independent people. In my opinion, healthcare  is a moral issue. We have a friend who died due to lack of health care coverage. Could not afford the Dr. and by the time he arrived at the ER it was too late, died two days later from heart failure....sad. No matter what side you take, it has to be apparent that there is big money at stake. Health care, regardless of who runs it, should not be a for profit business! Let's look at the real debate, politicians that are paid by lobbyist and special interest. How can we trust decisions when corporations are behind them? Personally, I am boycotting Whole Foods or their outspoken opposition to healthcare reform! Open, civil debate, not staged and paid for phony hostility!

Susan Scoti

11:54am • #96

It's funny how many people don't read the bill and just think that this is a simple reform of the system and free healthcare. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but this is a multi trillion dollar bill that has to come from somewhere, so don't think for a moment that you are going to stop paying your $850/month insurance bill and that everything is just going to be free. The money has to come from somewhere and if your monthly inusrance bill goes away it will be added to your yearly tax bill. Oh and you'll be paying for your neighbors insurance as well as they aren't able to work, so chances are your taxes will be even higher.

I know in today's times it seems as though money grows on trees from our government and the truth is it pretty much does. They print when they want to and we are printing so much money that the inevetable hyper inflationary period is not far off. If we walk into this healthcare reform nightmare we can kiss the American economy goodbye. We just can't afford to add this multi trillion dollar tab to the tax payers.

I am 32 years old and spend $700/month for our insurance which includes me, my wife and our infant son. Is that a lot of money? Sure it is and I believe it shouldn't be that much, but the truth is when something does go wrong I have the opportunity to see any doctor I please. America does have some of the most qualified doctors in the world and our system is very good. I believe there is a way to fix the system and it will entail some dramatic changes and regulation, but a socialized plan isn't the answer.

Although I do believe in a free market society I think all American's realize that we do have an issue with healthcare in this country and many of the problems come from the unregulation of insurance companies. There is no simple answer, but instead of a complete overhaul why don't we focus on the problems rather than trying to change the entire system. I believe we have 2 major probems, one being the unregulated insurance market and the second being immigration. If we focused on ridding the system of free loaders, aka illegal immigrants, as well as did a better job of regulating insurers, I think that would be a great start and cost tax payers much less.

I think there is much more involved in these bills than Americans understand. We all need to educate ourselves with the facts rather than watching CNN or FOX News. If we allow the media to control our thoughts we tend to vote on emotion rather than facts. This bill shouldn't involve partisan politics it should involve your educated personal opinion. FOLKS READ THE BILL.

 

12:00pm • #97

Hi Dean, Yes this is a hot topic. We are paying through the nose for bcbs insurance.  I just don't see how us consumers can continue to do this. thanks for sharing!

12:01pm • #98

Wonderful to read all of these great comments on health care and health care financing.  Having retired from the insurance and health care industries, I thought I might put a few cents into this commentary:

1)  Interstate insurance purchasing:  A lot of comments lament the lack of being able to buy insurance across state lines (the grass is always greener in South Dakota).  The falacy of this argument is that an insurer in a lower cost state would not charge that same cost to someone living in another state.  Insurers would underwrite based on the expected cost of care, which would take into consideration the cost patterns and contracted fees paid in the insureds home state - plus a healthy premium for the risk of insuring someone in a state that the insurer is unfamiliar with.  There is no cost solution here

2)  Medical Malpractice reform:  I don't think there is any doubt that this reform is needed, but don't expect it to be a panacea - California has this kind of reform (MICRA - claims are capped) and it hasn't made CA insurance policies cost less.

3)  Public Option:  Some commenters have said that this will provide competition to the system that doesn't exist today.  Unfortunately, the only competition will be how quickly hospitals will close.  Under the Ways and Means bill, the public option would pay providers 5% more than Medicare rates - which would still mean that hospitals will be paid about 10% less than their cost.  As a result, the commercially insured will have to further subsidize this revenue shortfall and drive our premiums even higher.  It is bad enough that the Medicare demographics will threaten the bankruptcy of many community hospitals, but to add to this mix a load of underpaying public option insureds will likely tip the balance.  The comment about the Federal Employee Program is right on the mark - if certain areas of the country need more insurance options then the FEP is a great solution that would not distort the market and would likely lower overall health premiums by improving the payor mix in hospitals (thus reducing their need for subsidies).

4)  Independent Contractor Groups:  As most of you know, the NAR has contracted for a "health insurance policy" for all Realtors.  But this type of association group plan is not comprehensive and most insurers would not insure such a group - because it simply circumvents individual underwriting for a group of people that have very little in common other than their licenses.  There might as well be a health insurance group for people whose license plates begin with the number 2!  The real issue, that many commented on, is the pre-existing condition exclusions in the current system - and the only way to get rid of that is to mandate that everyone have insurance (no free riders!).

5)  HSAs and High deductible plans:  I have a high deductible plan but it does provide some preventive care before the deductible - so I can be incented to maintain my health and not cost everyone more than I would if I ignored it.  Unfortunately, not everyone is in a position to bear the burden of high deductibles - this is a great plan for people who can sock away thousands of dollars in case something sould happen with their health.  We need solutions for people who can't save at that rate.  HSAs are a good idea but unfotunately the fees to maintain the accounts eat away at the savings, making them far less advantageous than they should be - they work better when corporate employers pay those fees, but that's not a solution for Realtors.

Most insurance regulation takes place at the state level - benefit mandates, pricing regulation, eligibility regulation, etc.  Even if a reform bill is passed, state regulation is not going to go away.  So get involved in your state government and work to understand and influence policies at that level - it will do more to change your premiums than anything else you might do.

 

12:02pm • #99

I went almost 10 years without health care coverage on myself because I didn't qualify for the "free stuff" and couldn't afford the extravagant cost of my own private plan. As an independant myself, I know what's it like. With the down turn in the economy I finally stuffed my pride down my throat as hard as it was to do and now temporarily have United Healthcare Medicaid. So sadly I am speaking from experience of what government run insurance is like.When the market comes back up and the economy swings up with it, I'll have no insurance yet again.

For one, I still have no primary care dr because there's a shortage of doctors accepting medicaid because they don't pay enough to cover the expenses. They cap how many people they take and that's it. The majority don't accept it at all. I had to go to a gynacologist and on frm their to specialists to get the catscans etc I needed done in order to get my surgery. Among other things, I have 2 hernias and a fibroid uterine tumor. I need the operation ASAP.

There are only 4 surgeons in all of Brevard Cunty, Florida that accept my insurance on the list. Calling them I found out there are actually zero. Well to be fair, one said they didn't have an opening until the end of next year. I'd be dead by then so it's not an option. What good is the card if no doctors take it?

I saw a townhall meeting where a senator said she polled a large group of doctors that if they were reimbursed medicaid percentages plus 10% - would they participate? They all said no, they would opt out because they wouldn't be able to cover their expenses.

So before you think that simply passing this thing as it is now is a good idea, maybe consider fixing the bill to work first before passing it. Passing it as is will do no one any good at all except they can say they passed it. thanks for nothing. I want insurance I can afford too. Maybe they'll use some common sense and do it right. I can't be for it as it is.

I was told this morning that I can get special authorization to "go outside the network" and get my surgery done. I'm not sure what that means exactly but I did hear the part about being able to finally get a yes from a surgeon. Consider how the bill is written, that's all I'm saying. We do need it and have for a very long time. But a broken system is not going to help us.

12:05pm • #100

@Chris Martin

There's only one problem with your statement:

"I will agree that there are elements of socialism in many parts of modern government. In fact, the very nature of health insurance (or any insurance for that matter) looks very socialist. You don't pay for health insurance in proportion to your need for health care. If you have health insurance and are sick, you are being subsidized by the whole group of those insured. In effect, the haves (the healthy ones) are paying to help out the have nots (the ones needing care whose cost exceeds the premiums they pay)."

When I purchase insurance that, as you say, "helps the have nots" the difference is that I CHOOSE to buy it. No government entity forces it upon me and takes money out of my check to pay for it. Government forcing decisions like this upon us IS Socialism; no matter how people want to twist it.

There is no country with a population the size of ours on the planet that has a model government run health care system. If there is I'd like to know where it is.

I also have to disagree with your statement that "single individuals who had issues with health service in their country (delayed hip replacements, experimental drugs denied, etc.)" are merely "anecdotal". The stories we hear are, in fact, very real. I have personally talked to a number of people who lived in other countries that can confirm it.

I will close by asking you this: Why aren't the politicians in Washington opting to use the same plan they are proposing for us? Maybe they know something we don't. Think about it...

12:06pm • #101

You couldn't have said it better than Kathy and others "I also feel that those making laws should be made to abide by them and suffer the consequences of their decisions".

I met a man in his early sixties outside of a medical center many years ago. He was very troubled because he needed heart bypass surgery. He lived in a very modest little old home in an undesirable city which is the county seat. The only way the hospital would would preform the heart bypass surgery was if he signed over his only asset, his paid for home of 35 years. They said they would rent it back to him for more than he could ever afford. His dilemma was to get the surgery and become homeless or just give up and suffer as he grew weaker and died.

I had a very good friend who got a very aggressive inoperable form of lung cancer. The doctor said she would probably die in three to nine months. Then they talked her into at least trying treatment. She had medicare and health insurance yet they demanded that she pay $10,000 up front before they would start treatment. I personally believe they wanted to suck her and insurance for as much as they could before she died. They ran every test under the sun and started chemotherapy. She died in three months very sick and miserable from the chemo.

Life is not easy or fair but I think more attention should be paid to those who are older and are American citizens. Older Americans have paid their dues to society. They don't have the opportunity to start over that younger people do. They should be respected and cared for with dignaty. I know that means the tax payers have to chip in but it's one of the things I am willing to do.

I am not so excited to chip in for those who are not American citizens, those that can work but wont, or those who make enough money to take care of themselves (if you chose to buy a bigger house, a view, or a boat over health insurance, you are on your own).  

12:44pm • #103

Dean, your post says nothing about what's actually in the government's plan. If you sell houses in Chicago the way you're selling health care, your conversations might go like this:

 

Customer: We need to move.

 

Agent: Buy this house on Maple Street.

 

Customer: Should we get a home inspection? 

 

Agent: Just buy the house.

 

Customer: How much will it cost?

 

Agent: Just buy the house.

 

Customer: Shouldn't we examine the contract?

 

Agent: Ted Kennedy! Buy the house.

 

Sorry, there's just too much spin in your post.

12:45pm • #104
Outside Blog

If we look at what is happenning in the rest of the Western world, it is obvious what needs to happen. We have some of the best facilities and doctors in the world.  On the other hand, we spend at least 2 times as much as any of these countries on health care and have the worst rating of these countries as far as the quality of health care.  Thes are facts.  And why would this be so?

I would point to our system, which is the only one of its kind.  We, as a nation, are afraid of the word "Socialism." And we have the insurance companies with a lot of vested interest in the status qoue.  There is a lot of moeny spent on needless paperwork, attempts by the insurance companies not to pay, and people sueing doctors and hospitals needlessly.

If we wanted to really have a system that worked.  We would look at all the western countries where it does work and take the best from all of them.  But we can't because of the problems in the preceding paragraph. 

One more note.  We pay for everyone to go to school.  What is the difference?

12:51pm • #105

It's so fascinating to me that in 2009 we have a healthcare debate with the democrats introducing their plan and the republicans say that plan is dead wrong and they have the right answer with "their" proposed plan(s).  For the last 8 years no one in the republican party fought to get tort reform which is the "solution"  What happened?

I am an independent, I don't think the healthcare bills put forth are perfect, but instead of bickering why is it so hard to sit down and have an intelligent conversation.  "Big" money is being spent on both sides to prevent any type of reform from happening yes including this tort reform many like to talk about.  Sadly our senators and congressmen aren't looking out for the public's best interest, the balance in their bank acct is now more important. 

To date we have spent over $900 billion dollars on wars, $trillions to bail out the financial markets but yet we can't agree on providing a health care system that we all will benefit from????

I won't be taking medicare or social security when I get to that age.  If they send me a check, I will send it back.  I hope that everyone who opposses this bill in this forum or outside of it will do the same.  This will either send a strong signal to the Gov't that we are unhappy with everything they touch or maybe we will realise that no one but the Gov't is willing to provide these services.

12:54pm • #106
179,095 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Be careful in comparing our health care to others.  It can be an apple and oranges issue.  Take infant mortality.  On paper ours is higher than other countries, but what really happens is many infants written off as dead under government run health plans (or health care in general) at birth get a chance at life in US Hospitals.  This can include pre-mature births and other issues.

Take it from the father of a premie who spend a long time in the intensive care nursery.  They can do miracles in this country; but it hurts the percentages on paper.

1:01pm • #107
161,439 Points 10 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

FIVE POINTS:

1.  To the TIGHTY RIGHTIES:  YOU LOST THE ELECTION!!!  Losing has consequences.  Liberals know this. We dealt with polices we dplored for eight miserable years.  When you lose, there will be  policies drafted into law that you won't like.  I can think of hundreds of things I didn't like or approve of during the Bush years.   A  free-market frenzy of deregulation that allowed markets to not only run free but run wild. They were finally run into the ground. Oh...and wasn't there a little thing about a WAR?  Something about weapons of mass destruction that weren't there?  Where were the Tighty Righties then?  Why weren't they suspicious of their "government run" intelligence program?  Too bad they were too busy banging the war drums.  By the time the Republicans were out - 95% of the nation was far worse off than it was before, there were a lot of people in the military who were mamed or killed needlessly.  Our financial system was in near collapse. The housing market had collapsed.

Bottom line - YOU LOST....YOU LOST BIG!!  And there are very valid reasons why you lost.

2. The issue of State boundaries. Two things about this:  The insurance companies in some ways have orchestrated some of this.  They LOVE it...Less choice - more profits.  There is no reason for them to open up too much competition. It would hurt their margins and they know it.  The other reason the state boundaries have not come down is because it would have to be accompanied by more FEDERAL protective mandates.  Federal laws governing insurance company practices are even weaker than the State laws regarding these issues. They allow for the dumping of patients once they get sick, it would make the exclusion of pre-exisiting conditions much easier in some states.  Those barriers are sometimes protective in that some states do have  laws that actually have some TEETH to them.  Those laws would be gone should the barriers come down.  This is sort of like a game of chicken.  It's messy, but both sides have reasons for keeping the status quo and there is a definite danger that GETTING care if you are sick will be harder if they break down those barriers.

3.  For- profit models are BRILLIENT for many things.  They work in commerce.  Certainly they work for real estate  (our industry.)  I think they are great for buying a pair of shoes.. ..But free markets and for- profit markets do NOT work for health care.

Here is the problem.  A for-profit model wants (it NEEDS) a sick patient to DIE!  My father went through that with a for-profit Medicare HMO.  This was the for-profit supposedly "cheaper" alternative to traditional Medicare/AARP supplemental. They delayed basic treatment for his cancer hoping he would DIE.  They stonewalled me for nearly a month which is a long time for someone who has 3 months to live without chemo.  This was for BASIC CHEMO.. Nothing fancy at all. The drug was 5-FU - the front-line drug for colon cancer for longer than I've been alive. I finally got them on the phone with a tape recorder.  I informed them they were be recorded, then I listed 20 news media people I would send the tape to in 24 hours if they didn't OK the chemo.  He had care in 24 hours - but it shouldn't take that. 

Preventive care?  Free markets are not interested in preventing disease - but making profits.  Why pay for colonoscopy  when leaving things alone is far cheaper?  After all, by the time the polyps that could be easily removed now are cancer, the patient might be with another carrier.  Further, if you find cancer - then they might have to pay for treatment!  God FORBID!  Also, you have to screen many people to prevent one case of cancer.  So bottom line- capitalism doesn't square well with preventive care.

The free-market "competition" mantra doesn't apply to things such as health care - where profits trump care every time.

 

4. Those of you who are doing things with high deductables and stating "if you are healthy - its inexepensive" are part of the problem.  You won't alwys be young and  healthy.  Right now you are freeloading.  You are going to be the first to be pulled down if illness strikes because your coverage will be limited.  When that happens, the expense of treating you will fall on the rest of US. All it takes is TIME, some bad luck (Karen George certainly didn't expect to get cancer at 29) or an accident and you are screwed.  You might say "that's my business."  Well- no - not really. You are rolling the dice on MY health care dollar.  You see, in the end  we ALL pay for the underinsured.  We are paying for them now as they crowd the emergency rooms of our nation.   I see nothing wrong with making the healthy and young pay their fair share.  Why should they be allowed to burden the health care system should they become ill?

 

5. Someone mentioned obesity??? How about smokers??? I think what we should do here is something very simple.  Gearing health care to BMI is very tough because that can change.  What are we going to have? The BMI police?  Simple answer - tax junk food!!!  Have the proceeds go to public health care.  Junk food is just as bad for skinny people as fat.  They can still have issues with sodium, cholesterol and the rest.  Just because you can't see the damage doesn't mean there isn't any. What if you taxed a McDonald's burger by $0.25?  Multiply that out....Such taxes have reduced smoking in our population. 

 

1:08pm • #108

As a wise man once said:

"If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait unitl it's free!"

1:10pm • #109
Outside Blog

Dean

 

I love the post.  Like yourself, I am quite healthy and I am also on similar if not exact medications and at a similar out of pocket cost. 

Something does need to be done but the "almight question" is what!  What can be done, when we have ignored the problem for more than a decade.  It has spun out of control, and though we have access to phenomenal health care, we are rushed out of offices and hospitals.  Furthermore, many can no longer afford the insurance or care to obtain such service.

The middle man has been squeezed to tight in the USA; the trickle down effect is being exposed in areas such as healthcare.

1:13pm • #110

Holy Cow!! You call yourself an entrepreneur? Stop whining! "public options" as competitors don't work.  I am sure you have heard of eminent domain. That is the governments idea of a real of a real estate transaction? 

Here's an idea - Lets scream for a public option because of confiscatory real estate rates.... 

Seriously, we need our own money back in our pockets.  Give us the opportunity to shop for health care without the regulations and unlimited lawsuits.   Stop whining and get a little more creative.  Get catastrophic coverage and then pay cash.  Go to your doctor and ask how much it is to pay cash.  Ask if he knows other docs that would be willing to do the same.  think of a few options before you ask for governments "help".

1:19pm • #111
1 Featured Post

Yes, we pay for everyone to go to school and look at what we get!  We've got students who can't read, can't locate India on a map and who don't have the critical thinking skills to estimate whether or not they have enough gas in their tank to be able to drive to a filling station and, rest assured, there won't be any difference here.

Dean, I disagree with your whole post.  I respect your right to your opinion, but it seems to be ideologically driven. 

For my part, I had a serious health challenge last year.  As a 60 year-old, if I'd been living in some countries I could mention, I would have been told to make the best of it.  Thanks to my private insurance company, one of the best medical systems in the world and my freedom to locate one of the top 20 surgeons in the U.S., I'm healthy today.  In a single payer system, I would be unlikely to be here to disagree with you.  (You're probably saying, "Too bad!")

There are a number of basic economic principles which I've found to be true.  One of them is that government can never provide services that are competitive with private enterprise because there is no incentive for government to operate efficiently.  Think about the local driver's license bureau.  If a private enterprise was tasked with selling little pieces of plastic to the public for twenty dollars apiece, you can bet they'd figure out some way to sell more than about two per hour. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but it's true, nonetheless.)

1:20pm • #112
Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Health Care is an issue but Government Run anything is not the answer. 

I am an Army Veteran with a minor disabliltiy.  I elect to use my insurance and my hospitals rather than suffer the care at the VA hospital which is a mere 6 miles from my office and free. 

Answers?  Tort reform would be a great start but since most congressman are failed attorney's I have strong doubts that we will ever see Tort reform. 

Free anything doesn't work.  How many of you have visited emergency rooms only to see them over flowing with welfare cases that go there for a broken toe nail.....since the hospital cannot turn them away. 

How about charging the self insured or the uninsured the same rate that Anthem pays?  Anthem negotiates the fee down but the self insured or uninsured gets to pay the full bill.

Everyone here needs to realize that there is no free ride.  Anytime you ask the government to provide you an additional service they are taking more and more of your civil rights and liberty's.

 

2:27pm • #113

I'm with you brother!  My COBRA ceases at the end of the year and I am uninsurable.  And I consider m,yself healthy!  I have avoided going to to the doctor just praying that by the end of the year I'll look better to the insurance underwriters!

2:33pm • #114
Outside Blog

Ruthmarie, your post was brilliant.  Thanks for telling it llike it is.  I need a minor hernia operation right now and I just wasted the whole morning driving to an appointment that could not happen and 2 hours on the phone just trying to get a referral done so I can have a pre surgery appointment, which, if I am lucky, will happen in October.  Health care is like education, it is absolutely immoral that we do not automatically cover it for everyone like the rest of western civilization does.  Ridiculous!

2:42pm • #115

I'd like to respond to Ruthmarie's point #4.  You have totally missed the boat on high deductibles.  I have a $15,000 annual deductible.  After the first $15,000. I have 100% coverage.  I have had this for more than 10 years.  I started with a $5,000 deductible but as premiums soared (even though I have had no medical claims whatsoever), I continued to raise the deductible so that I can maintain my health coverage.

The idea is that I can come up with the first $15,000.  Then I am 100% covered.  So no, I am not "rolling the dice on (your) health care dollar."  It's nice that you can afford better coverage.  It must be better or you would not be quite so self-rightous.  But please get your facts straight before delivering lectures such as "Those of you who are doing things with high deductables... Right now you are freeloading".  Thanks.

2:43pm • #116

It would be interesting to compile these comments into numbers "for" and "against" and a sort of poll as to how many espouse which particular solutions.  This is a significant sample of citizen opinions, from a group greatly affected by health reform.  Much better than polls with leading questions...

There are actually many points of consensus here in spite of the back and forth.  Let's hope Congress can do as well, huh?

 

 

3:21pm • #117

It always amazes me that the liberal left in this country claims to be so compassionate and caring yet they can inflict the most vicious attacks on those who don't agree.  

Reference the compassionate liberal base in this forum using the phrase "tighty righties"

Why don't you all grow up and stop the name calling when you don't agree.

3:24pm • #118

Dean,

There are indeed positive things we can do to reform our Health Care system. There are several options. However, in your case, the best option is Consumer Driven Tax Qualified Health Insurance. This is the lowest priced (by far) and most intelligent way to insure anyone. Most especially a family. This is the only kind of Health Insurance that actually lowers your risk and premium outlay each year you own it. Also contrary to popular belief many Consumer Driven Tax Qualified Health Insurance plans include "first dollar" coverage (no deductible required) for Preventative Care (e.g. Routine checkups, Paps, mammograms, child wellness etc.). More importanly the tax advantages to the self employed are unprecedented witht this type of Health Insurance and they get better each year. You can even get Guaranteed Issue (no underwriting restrictions) Consumer Driven Tax Qualified Health Insurance in 35 states (Illinois being one of them). You see, the free market (with the help of solutions ALREADY in place from the Federal Goverment) can provide the answers to all your Health Insurance needs.

The problem in this country is NOT the Uninsured but instead the UNINSURABLE. The Uninsured need to buy a policy. 12 Million of them (according to the U.S. Census Bureau are illegal aliens) the others simply do not buy Health Insurance. FACT CHECK VIDEO ABOUT THE UNINSURABLE HERE: http://www.freemarketcure.com/uninsuredinamerica.php

Only 8.5 Million American's are truly Uninsured BECAUSE they are UNINSURABLE due to certain pre existing condition such as Diabetes or Cancer for example.  It is these American's whom we need to help and there are Guaranteed Issue Health Insurance options for the vast majority of these Americans (if they live in one of the 35 aforementioned states).

Where we need to spend Federal dollars is in expanding these Guaranteed Issue option to ALL Americans regardless of what State they may live in. We also need to fund these Guaranteed Issue State Run Health Insurance pools with more Federal Dollars so that they are affordable for all Americans. Doing so will cost a small fraction of the dollars that President Obama wants to spend to insure all Americans (87% of which already have Health Insurace coverage).

Here's what needs to be done to TRULY reform Health Insurance in the U.S:

  • Weed out all of the illegals who are sucking our Medicaid system dry such as in Illinois. Good old "Blago" enrolled thousands of Illegals in to our Medicaid system, thereby running the program in the ground & leaving our Illinois Medicaid system approx. $1.5 BILLION behind in payment of claims to physicians who have been providing "free" care to all illegals who were lucky enough to flock to the State of Illinois to insure themselves for "free". In fact, according to the U.S. Census Bureau 10 to 12 Million of the Uninsured in America are illegal aliens. Who comprise the rest? Find out here.
     

  •  Instead of bailing out GM with Billions of our blood sweat and tears and then letting them file bankruptcy 3 months later. Why not fund a NATIONAL High Risk Pool for those who are rendered uninsurable? We already have such State run High Risk Health Insurance pools in the majority of States. These Risk Pools will cover anyone regardless of their medical history. The problem is they are under funded so the premiums are extremely high. Instead of spending $1.6 Trillion to insure only 11 Million of the 45 Million uninsured. LEAVE the bulk of the nation's risk where the money is, namely with the insurance companies. Then provide a National Federal & State funded Risk Pool for those who are rendered uninsurable. Since the uninsured far outweigh the uninsurable, this would cost far less than the currently proposed $1.6 Trillion over the next 10 years.
     

  •  Pass a law that mandates that all American's, who can afford to purchase Health Insurance (remember the 35 Million) actually do so! Pass a law that states that they must purchase some basic level of Health Insurance coverage for themselves and their dependents. The Fed has has already helped design Consumer Driven Tax Qualified Health Insurance so the premiums remain affordable and the family has an impetus to help control costs. In fact, no other form of Health Insurance lowers your risk each year. People need to know about these new Consumer Driven Health Insurance options. Why would passing a Health Insurance Mandate work? Remember car insurance? It used to be that you could drive around like a moron without it. Congress then mandated (and rightfully so) that ALL drivers purchase some basic level of Car Insurance to protect themselves and those who they may injure. This worked for the car insurance industry and it would do the EXACT same thing for the Health Insurance industry. Adding to the national risk pool 35 Million more American's would drive down Health Insurance premiums for all American's. It's just an actuarial fact.
     

  •  BREAK DOWN THE STATE BARRIERS! All Americans should be able to purchase Health Insurance from ANY Health Insurance carrier in ANY STATE. This would create a NATIONAL RISK POOL which will drive down premiums for all. What prevents this? State MANDATES! Certain States (like the States mentioned in this well researched article from The Wall Street Journal) require mandates that are actuarially unsound. When such Mandates are passed, many Health Insurance carriers simply choose not to offer ANY products in that State. This limits the choices to the consumers in that State and drives up the premiums for the few plans that are available in that State exponentially.
     

  •  Establish a Federal oversight committee to regulate and hold accountable physicians who make medical mistakes. What's one of the biggest reasons why health care is so expensive? Hint: It's not "rich CEO's" and "outdated medical records transfer processes." It's Medical Mistakes! Here's the real facts you won't find in the media outlets:

1994: Five years after a groundbreaking Institute of Medicine report focused attention on medical errors in hospitals, Americans say that they do not believe that the nation's quality of care has improved. In fact, 1 out of 3 patients states that they have experienced a serious medical error http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/hlthaff.w4.534

1995: A Study published in the Journal of American Medical Association (JAMA) found that only two percent of medication errors that occurred during the medication administration process were intercepted.
a. More people die from medication errors than from work place injuries
b. Medication errors account for approximately one out of 131 outpatient deaths and one out of 854 inpatient deaths.

1999: Institute of Medicine (IOM) releases its first report on healthcare quality and medical errors. http://www.iom.edu/?id=12735 The Study finds in part that:

    a. Medical errors are responsible for injury in as many as 1 out of every 25 hospital patients.
    b. Between 44,000 and 98,000 Americans die each year from preventable medical errors in hospitals alone.
    c. The deaths from preventable medical mistakes are equivalent to the number of people who would die if a jumbo     jet crashed EACH AND EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR, and all its passengers died!
    d. Medical errors cause more deaths than motor vehicle accidents, breast cancer or AIDS.....and this study is TEN     YEARS OLD and STILL no Federal oversight committee! Oh wait! It gets worse!

2002: A Study issued by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) concluded that more than 200,000 medication errors occurred during 2002

2004: CDC reports that 90,000 patient deaths occur each year due to patients contracting hospital acquired infections.  http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dhqp/pdf/nnis/2004NNISreport.pdf
    a. Many hospital acquired infections are caused by health care workers who fail to wash their hands in between patients.

2006: Studies assessing the state of hospital patient safety conclude that current progress is slow, results in general are at best modest, and the gap between the best possible care and actual care remains large.  http://www.healthgrades.com/media/dms/pdf/PatientSafetyInAmericanHospitalsStudy2006.pdf

More Facts:

Preventable medical errors result in extended hospital stays, expensive treatment for chronic medical conditions and astronomical medical costs that are associated with treating debilitating life-long illnesses. Some experts state that these costs may be in the range of $150-200 Billion dollars per year. Gee, where else could we spend that money??? Quick reminder:

ALL of the aforementioned happened under the nose of our Federal Government. And we want them to regulate Health Care?? Let's not save ALL of our anger for the "greedy" insurance companies and "over paid" doctors and CEO's. Let's focus our Anger on our GOVERNMENT who has allowed this systemic problem to continue over three administrations!

Ask yourself, why does the health care industry basically regulate and report on itself? Why is certification and accreditation voluntary? Why don't we have a Federal agency that acts like the FAA and investigate medical mistakes, just like airline accidents or near misses? Why do only some states have mandatory reporting requirements of medical errors? All Good Questions that need to be answered before we hand over our very health freedoms to the Government to "regulate".

  •  TORT REFORM! This is one area of reform that is rarely spoken of by the Liberal left. Medical malpractice liability forces providers into practicing defensive medicine. In other words, it causes medical practitioners to order multiple expensive (and often times unnecessary) tests and procedures "in defense of" potential lawsuits, JUST IN CASE they miss something in a patient's case. All for fear of being sued for ridiculous amounts in a malpractice lawsuit. Limiting liability lawsuit awards to reasonable amounts will deter those who seek the "big pay day" by filing frivolous lawsuits against medical practitioners

In summary, REAL healthcare reform can be accomplished through consumer education, weeding out abuse of existing Federal entitlement prorams (via a legitimate needs assessment) and increased funding and expansion of existing State sponsored Risk Pools so that people who are declined for insurance have an affordable option to continue coverage if declined on the individual major medical market. Following these few simple steps will go a long way towards not only maintaining our current health care system, but also towards keeping the bulk of our nations risk where it belongs, namely with the private health insurance industry. In light of the recent multi Trillion Dollar "Bail Outs" and many other failing corporations coming to the table with their hats in their hands (and their private jets on the tarmac) the last thing our government should do is start cutting more blind "bail out" checks in an effort to "reform" the U.S. health care system.

By the way, the current House & Senate Bills are NOT the way to reform Health Insurance. All one needs to do is actually READ them. I did and here's what I found: http://www.sbisvcs.com/blog.htm

3:33pm • #119

Great post Steven, the question I have is where were you 8 years ago with this brilliant idea??  Here we go again with this Tort reform thing, why hasn't the right or the left pushed this idea??

You said:

"In summary, REAL healthcare reform can be accomplished through consumer education, weeding out abuse of existing Federal entitlement prorams (via a legitimate needs assessment) and increased funding and expansion of existing State sponsored Risk Pools so that people who are declined for insurance have an affordable option to continue coverage if declined on the individual major medical market."

I agree brother, what I also agree with is telling the american people the real cost of a war before we go and to report it on the books as an expense.  To make sure that our "Gov't" intelligence is at least 75% correct before we get over 4000 of our own people killed, to stop creating secret armies, that no one is aware of.

When all these crooked politicians stop taking money from these insurance giants then maybe we can get an intelligent conversation.  Steven, it looks like your side is leading with the crooked politicians!  Maybe you should present your brilliant ideas to them.

3:44pm • #120
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Dean- This righty tighty here seems to recall Bush with a Hitler mustache also!

3:52pm • #121

To the Author -

After reading your post and giving at far chance your first couple of paragraphs says it all! You became self employed thinking you could make a lot of money. But you didnt consider all the associated cost of being self employed and them increasing over time. So now you don't make enough to cover those cost and you want to complain. Business cost never go down, I remember when paper cost a lot less. You made a business decision with your life and now you are regretting it so your fellow neighbors should support socialized medicine. If you dont make enough to cover your health insurance and make a living then quit and go do something else where your health insurance is paid for. You can't have everything, you can't be your own boss and not have the headaches that come with it. Sorry!

Also, you said the bill is just that a bill and it will change a lot before it is passed. Really have you ever hear of TARP?...you know the bill we had to pass or else the world would have ended. Yah there was a lot of debate and change in that bill...ahahhaha and now what we did we get? Oh yah a jobless recovery. Way to go, spend $800billion for not one job created.

And finally to your last remark about Ted Kennedy. The man who died of brain cancer who used every available avenue of modern medicine to extend his life. His struggle to live was truly awe inspiring, but this bill would take elminate our right to have same option afforded to Mr. Kennedy. I wonder if Obama Care had passed before the Senators death, if the President would have told Teddy "Sorry, you have had a nice long life, but you need to take a pain pill and die quietly because the chance of you living is very small and the care you need is very expensive."

 

 

To Ruthmarie - So because the Right lost we should just shut up and put up Obama's socialist agenda? Was the left all that quite when Bush was in office? If you think so perhaps you live in your own reality. Here is a link of a prominent democrat not being so silent as you may have remembered, or even encouraging silence for that matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTamBfz0Efo

And, I bet if I looked hard hard enough I could find a few MILLION Web Pages from left-wing blogs bashing Bush while he was President. Wasn't there a book published by a far left individual about how to assasinate President Bush? Oh, you're right that was art.

Also if losing the support of the American People is the deciding factor on who should be quite, then Obama Care should be dead and You, Pelosi, Reed, Obama and the rest of the left should all be really quite. Maybe its just me but hasnt Obamas popularity been decreasing while opposition to Health Care Reform growing? Weird!

Obama Care doesn't even have the support of democratic controlled legislature which is why the wizards of smart in Obama Camp are trying to swindle this bill through by using RECONCILIATION!

**Disclaimer: COMMENT NOT SPELL CHECKED!**

3:53pm • #122
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C Stephen- This bill does mandate that all people carry insurance or get penalized with a higher tax. That would be me. And it is not fair that the government force me to buy health insurance that I don't want. It is my choice to buy or not to buy. I have to save my money to pay for natural health care the government says I can not have and that insurance does not pay for. It interferes with my freedom of choice. I don't want chemo if I get cancer- I want to be treated at the Hipocrates institute where I will have to come up with the money myself. Katerina

3:56pm • #123

I hope all my friends here who oppose healthcare reform in any shape or form will join me in returning their social security check when they are of age and never use Medicare!!!

Power to the people!!!

3:58pm • #124

There's alot of good points here, I just hope everyone remembers that this is open for everyone to see including your potential clients, best to keep it civil...

4:01pm • #125

Amen to that! Goverment creates nothing! It taxes and spends and most often without representation. Rarely do they have the answer to anything. Who provides the answers? Our citizens! Through our ingenuity and our entrepreneurialism. We can also can spend our money FAR better than government can. Why? Because we have a VESTED INTEREST in the return on our investments because it's OUR MONEY! The goverment is like a teenage girl with her daddy's Platinum Visa. The Government's answer to all problems has been to THROW MONEY AT IT. It's easy to throw when it's NOT YOURS!

Look at our Medicare system. According to the CBO Medicare will be bankrupt in 2017 AT OUR CURRENT RATE OF EXPENDITURE. How could this be possible when FDR promised ALL of us by stating that these funds will be stored in a "LOCK BOX" and invested in highly secured bonds backed by the full faith and credit of the Federal Goverment! GIMME A BREAK! It's almost ALL GONE! Why? Because they immorally robbed it for other expenditures. Medicare will be bankrupt by 2017 and this is BEFORE the current administration ROBS it of $500,000,000,000 (BILLION) dollars to fund their idea of Health Insurance "reform". Don't even get me started on Social Security or Medicaid! Once again, reckless spending is not the answer. The answer (as always) lies within the minds and the ingenuity of the American citizen.

By the way, I have discussed my ideas with my local Senators and most recently I was contacted by Adam Andrzejewski (who is running for Governor in Illinois www.adamforillinois.com) and we had a great conversation about the right way to reform health care in our country. Hopefully SOMEONE in power will listen instead of advancing their own agendas on a Partisan basis. If we are not open to critical thought and health debate in this country and instead we continue to battle between left and right we will destroy ourselves from the inside. Partisanship is a Cancer to a Republic, and just like Cancer it must be quashed early before it further metastasizes.

Washington warned us of this in his farewell address. I suggest everyone read it here: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp Or at least those who are blind to critical thought and enslaved by one parties ideology. For more about the wisdom our Founders left us regarding this all important topic visit: http://www.sbisvcs.com/real_health_care_reform.htm

4:04pm • #126

Hey Hasani

I've paid into medicare and social security all my life; and you know what? It's broke. I'll be lucky if there's anything there to collect when I retire. So you may not have to worry about us not taking the checks.

If I could have saved that money myself rather than giving it to the governement I'd probably be much better off.

 

4:05pm • #127

Hansi - I doubt when I am of age there will be any money in Social Security for me!

And your right Power should be to people...not the government.

4:05pm • #128

Katerina,

I agree with you. My suggestions are based on the fact that the Government is hell bent on intervening in our free market health care system. This being the case, if they MUST once again put their invasive noses in to our private lives in an effort to "reform" our health care system, then there are FAR more intelligent things to do than what they are currently planning.

I have read the bills and they are not designed to empower the citizen but instead (once again) designed to GROW Government and remove the private citizen's precious health care decision making rights (such as seeking alternative medicine options as you aptly mention). If you have not read the proposed bills you can check out my exhaustive analysis of these intrusive bills here: http://www.sbisvcs.com/blog.htm

4:23pm • #129

C Steven Tucker

Brilliant! Very well documented and researched essay on healthcare. I only wish our so-called Representatives in Washington used as much common sense in their approach to the problem

4:35pm • #130

Both my wife and I NC Realtors and longtime fulltime agents. She is younger so we did the Blue Cross HSA account with her age to keep it less expensive, and it is over 800.00 a month with a 5,400 deductable. And guess what every year as we use it the premium goes up.  I am totally amazed that the National association of Realtors and the Largest trade organization in the US they cannot do a better job at finding us more affordable insurance. I have read they continue to lobby the powers to be in Washington with no luck. We should have the finest group insurance policies available as large an organization we are. Keep hounding and giving to RPAC and maybe just maybe one day we will get what we deserve.

4:40pm • #132
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Rachel- The reason you have allergies is because of the food you eat. Simple solution but no Big Pharma and NO FDA who is on the take of Big Pharma- wants you to know that allergies are not healed by meds but rather by what you are putting into your body.

If everyone could have access to this information and it was not mocked at, you would see health costs go down like crazy, but then again, that would create less profits in big pharma's pockets and the directors at the FDA would no longer have access to those cushy jobs they get from Big Pharma when they leave the FDA. Follow the money.

Katerina

5:16pm • #133
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Preferred Financial Funding:

You said brilliantly:

To the Author -

After reading your post and giving at far chance your first couple of paragraphs says it all! You became self employed thinking you could make a lot of money. But you didnt consider all the associated cost of being self employed and them increasing over time. So now you don't make enough to cover those cost and you want to complain. Business cost never go down, I remember when paper cost a lot less. You made a business decision with your life and now you are regretting it so your fellow neighbors should support socialized medicine. If you dont make enough to cover your health insurance and make a living then quit and go do something else where your health insurance is paid for. You can't have everything, you can't be your own boss and not have the headaches that come with it. Sorry!

This is what really gets me and people get so mad at me because they don't ever want to accept the responsibilty of their decisions. We have the choice to make it in our lives no matter what the obstacles are. If you as a Real Estate agent want health insurance make more money. What other business can you be self employed like this with some of the lowest overhead of small businesses and make incredible amounts of money? You have a choice, we all have a choice. I have been through hell and back a few times and still it comes back to my choices so I can speak from both sides. Katerina

5:44pm • #134
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I am not a fan of Howard Dean and yet he just made the most honest and real statement at his town hall why tort reform is NOT in the bill! GO Howard! I may not like your politics but I love your truth speaking that the trial lawyers would not allow tort reform in the bill! Katerina

5:46pm • #135
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Hasani- Yes, Hasani- I will send my social security checks back. They also limit what you can make and I will still be making money so no, I don't want that broke social security, if it is even around. You go! I am glad you are going to send yours back too. I am a conservative/libertarian and don't want government interfering in my life at all. I homeschool, take natural remedies, and want to be left alone to live my life and take care of my family and to help others and be my brother's keeper through my church and charity. Katerina

5:52pm • #136

I am not a real estate professional, nor am I a private contractor, but I am very involved in healthcare in the US - not only the provision of direct care as a nurse practitioner, but also as a professor, teaching in a nurse practitioner program.  That being said......

It is really clear that we need to revise the entire healthcare system, but the problem is not only insurance coverage.  It is the overall provision of healthcare itself, the omnipotent power of the AMA - trying to have a virtual monopoly on healthcare provison, the out of control cost of phamaceutical drugs (example:  iit cost about 2 cents to manufacture a pack of oral contraceptives - where the cost without insurance is $28 - $35, and Dean - how much do you think that it costs for the manufacturer to make your inhaler???).  Providing sample medications - as so may patients ask me to do does not solve the problem - it only adds to the problem.  Sample meds are high cost, brand name drugs - and when you are done with the samples, your prescription will be written for that expensive drug and not a less expensive alternative.  Very few drugs cannot be given as generics (if available) - but patients INSIST on brand name drugs thinking that they are "better", or sample drugs, where when they have to pay for them, the cost is huge.

The pevalence of litigation has also increased health care costs.  My own medical malpractice is slightly over $1200/year - a drop in the bucket - when compared to the physician that sees the same type of patients that I do.

Physicians are "incentivized" to "do more" and patients expect...no, they DEMAND that more is done.  Physicians get paid more to do more lab work and diagnostic testing, often because the patient insists that they "want" a particular test, and so the more that is done, the more they get paid.  And...where do you think that this reimbursement comes from?  Your pockets, through the collective costs of insurance premiums.  Indirectly, you are paying for unnecessary testing, unnecessary office visits - you know, those "just checking in to make sure things are fine" office visits - through your insurance premiums.

Further, much of our society does not demonstrate the motivation and/or ability for health promotion and disease prevention - and this is a major problem.   Raise your hand if you drink more than 5 alcoholic beverages per week.  Raise your hand if your BMI is more than 24.9.  Raise your hand if you have high blood pressure, asthma, chronic bronchitis, allergies, or if you have had a heart attack AND you smoke - well, just raise your hand if you smoke - even without other health problems.  Raise your hands if you don't get 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise every single week.  All of you with your hands up - take a bow - you directly contribute to the high cost of healthcare in this country.  Frankly, it is emotionally expensive and frustrating to take care of people that continue to deliberately physcially self-destruct and then complain about how much it costs to fix the problems that they have caused themselves! 

So yes, in this country we need healthcare reform.  BUT we need more than that.  We need HEALTH PROMOTION and DISEASE PREVENTION - every one of us.  Correct your conditions that are known to cause illness and you will decrease the demand for healthcare services to "fix" the problems that you created for yourself - and in addition to better health, you will also see healthcare costs decrease. 

 

(Not spellchecked) 

6:06pm • #137
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Folks -

Words all well said, and well thought out - and I very much appreciate the time you've all placed in your comments.

Of course, I don't agree with everything that has been said - as you might imagine, especially the baiting, right-wing rhetoric.

But this debate is healthy - and it is the American way.

Glad I live here!

Although, you have to admit - we'd make one hell of a loud Thanksgiving dinner together!

DEAN & DEAN'S TEAM CHICAGO

6:15pm • #138
Outside Blog

I have the answer. 

I have been an independent insurance broker for 9 years before starting in the real estate business this year.  I had become so disgusted whenever I tried to get a new member signed up for an individual plan.  Almost no one qualifies because almost everyone takes a medication and the insurers don't like the potential cost implication. For example: If you have hypertension, you are at higher risk for a stroke even with medication.

Someone above mentioned about only going for services that are truly necessary.  If we take better care of ourselves that will surely help, in a big way.

But, if we are talking about fixing the system I think my solution would work.  Make coverage mandatory for everyone and don't allow insurers to turn anyone down for coverage. 

The reason the rates are so high is because we are subsidizing the uninsured.  The carriers negotiate contracts with the hospitals who cannot turn anyone away.  The hospitals have to charge more due the uninsured.  If everyone were insured, the risk would change.  The rates would be lower and it would be more affordable.  We could use the existing system we have in place and just tweek it a little.  But we also have to be more responsible with our health.  For instance, Dean, are you sure there is nothing else you can do to bring down your hypertension?  Maybe change your diet, stop eating processed foods.  We have to look at more than just the insurance system.  We have to look at ourselves too.

6:18pm • #139
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Health promotion and disease prevention?  No way!  You mean people need to eat better, not smoke, drink more water and take a walk from time to time????  Say it isn't so! 

6:23pm • #140

The bottom line is that this is a LONG overdue discussion - you may not like the various bills floating around in the House and Senate - but at least the country is talking about this very serious problem. 

In the U.S. one bankruptcy every 20 seconds is attributable to medical/hospital debts - and many of those people had health insurance.  Health expenditures per capita: US $6,714; Canada $3,678; UK $2,260 yet we are ranked behind both.  Sure we have "the best health care in the world" IF you can afford it, but we have one of the worst systems in the world because only about 2% of our citizens can afford "the best".

It's amazing to me that with such a broken system that more don't want to try something else. Especially we Realtors have to pay through the nose for bad insurance when we know full well that if we need particularly expensive care our insurers will do everything they can to not pay for it, deny coverage, etc.  If you don't think your health care is already rationed, than you are either very wealthy and have paid for what you needed out of your own pocket, or you've never been particularly sick.

The govt runs the post office, public schools, the military, libraries, fire departments, police departments.  None of them are perfect - but which of these would you choose to get rid of??????

FedEx and UPS found profitable ways to compete with the post office, and private schools thrive in competition with public schools.  There are private companies who provide extra fire and police/security coverage for the rich because they can afford it.  In that light a govt option is hardly a government take over.  And if you don't like "socialism" than if your home catches fire, be sure to tell the fire dept you can put it out yourself.

You may disagree with all or part of what I'm saying - but as I started out - I'm just glad we are talking about it again after a too long hiatus.

6:31pm • #141
Outside Blog

I think that we ought to all create a forum and solve this health care crises ourselves.  I bet we would do a much better job then all the greedy people that are doing it now.  The system is just too screwed up and there is no way to fix any of it.  Everytime we try to fix something as a nation, we just make it more complicated to the point where nobody understands any of it.

Look at the IRS code!  Then understand that this is only one tax.  Think about how many more there are and how much time it takes to do all this needless paperwork.  And all the loop holes.  Imagine the waste.  This is how it is with everything because we try to fix it and make it more complicated.  What if we just had a flat income tax with asliding scale and onlly deductions for up to 3 children?  And states, counties, & cities could could do the save thing based on the same return.  Sounds simple, doesn't it.  Imagine all the time and resources we would save! 

Reason we do not have such a tax system is the same reason health care is not just paid for automatically.  The country is not run by you or me, or by small business owners, but by greedy corporations.  The government is just one more greedy corporation.  Depending on who has the vested interest, that is who will prevent the solution from happenning.  Until they stop influencing us, nothing really good can happen.

As to health care.  Here is my simple solution.  Anyone can go to do any preventative care free any time they want.  And anyone can have castrrophic and emergency care any time they want.  Whenever they want.  Regular doctor visits, etc, would be paid out of pocket.  All else would be paid by the government automatically.  The doctor, clinic, or hospital, would just send in reports about who was there and what was done.  Simple, easy.  If someone that was well off, they could still may for quicker, or higher quality care out of pocket as well.  A sytem like this would take care of everybody, eliminate a ton of waste, and cost less then 40% of what we presently spend on health care. 

But the insurance companies would be out of business.  And do you really think the Insurance companies would let that happen?  Not in a million years.  Same problem with everything else.  Imagine if you coulod just send your child to any school free as long as the school met minimum guidelines.  Do you think our educational system would improve.  You bet.  In this case, it is the public education system that would not let it happen.  Always look at who has the vested interest, and that is where the problem is.  You cannot trust what anyone within a vested corporation to come up with any solution that hurts them.

 

6:33pm • #142

Dean,

This quite a sensitive subject with those who are either opponents or advocates of the proposed health reform bill.

Being from Europe and knowing how the health care system over there works I can only say:  WE NEED TO MAKE A CHANGE.  

The change need not fill more pockets of health care executives, lobbyists, pharmaceutical companies and executives.  Our health care costs are out of control.  I was kicked out of my husband's insurance because of a "pre-existing" condition I had all my life but was recently confirmed with testing. Because he works for a large company with good health benefits I was accepted again but for how long?  

It is NOT SOCIALISM as many of you state.  We don't have true capitalism in our great country because that doesn't work as the banking crisis proofed (no or little regulation).  If we would have a choice between two health care systems we would all win.  People under a certain income level would enjoy a similar system as Medicare and those who choose to be privately insured without the high premiums and deductibles are not required to enroll.  Prices of medication wouldn't be sky rocketing as they do now.  

If any of you would need medical care during a vacation in France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Austria or Germany, (I don't know for sure about the other countries so I can't give my opinion) you are taken care of without your insurance card and even if you need to pay them for services rendered at a later time (not always the case) you will be amazed at the low cost of their health care.  I am amazed at the low cost and often free health care my relatives enjoy.

We do need to overhaul the health care system but we should not rush into a change without looking objectively at the consequences for the majority of the population.  As some have stated: we are now also paying for those who are not insured.  Those who are opposed now may in the future regret the system in place now.  Don't form an opinion without researching and reading all the options here.  Just because one is on one site of the fence doesn't mean that everything on the other side is wrong.  Let's work on a better health care systems together without making changes that are beneficial for only a small group of the population or interest groups.

On a recent flight I sat down in a middle seat and in between an older lady and an executive who happen to discuss this very topic.  The 4 hour flight was mostly spent discussing this subject.  

This bill may not be perfect and may not pass but we should not stop working at overhauling our current health care system.

 

 

 

 

 

6:41pm • #143

Our health care system is hemoraging.  Too expensive and wasteful.

Before major reforms,  before drafting more bills the government should fix the real problems:

1. Put a cap on legitimate law suits.  Eliminate frivolous law suits.
2. Eliminate or at least reduce fraud and waste.
3. Allow health insurance companies to compete.

Use the savings to shore up our hospitals and medical centers so that they can treat our needy for free.
Use stimulus money to build additional medical facilities.
If we can spend billions on “clunkers”  we can spend billions on senior citizens.

I have read both bills.  Neither one addresses the real problems.   They waste more money on bureaucracy and reward special interest groups.

If
your gas tank leaks don’t get new carburetor.  Fix the leak!

Alex Majthenyi

Alex Majthenyi
6:44pm • #144

This video tells us EXACTLY why the Government can never be trusted to run our Health Care system:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0

7:05pm • #145

For me Insurance is not even an option at any cost. Although I am in good health I have diabetes. Unless it is a group policy I am automatically turned away. I can't even get insurance that would exclude diabetes treatment....drugs...doctor visits etc. Unfortunately for me government intervention seems to be the only option and I welcome it with open arms

Richard Bowman
7:24pm • #146
1 Featured Post

Dean,

GREAT POST!  I had wanted to say pretty much the same thing...but it never would have come out as nicely as you put it.  And if I hear another person cry "we don't want socialism" I think I'll blow a gasket!  How do you think we EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN!!! 

I just find out my insurance is about to go up again...for the second time this year.  In January I was paying $430 for my high deductible ($2500 plus 20% of the first $10,000 of covered expenses each year)...in March it was raisde to $567....and I've heard that in October it will go up to $737...nearly double what it was at the beginning of the year.  And that just for me....mildly elevated blood pressure...not a single claim on my health insurance for nearly 10 years...and not a big one 10 years ago.   I'll be paying more for my health insurance than for all my other regular expenses combined (except mortgage)!

For anyone who believes we don't really have a crisis on our hands, all I can say is "No, maybe YOU don't have a crisis....but we, as a country, DO!"  And as for that nonsense about putting the government between you and your doctor...fact is that currently it's the INSURANCE COMPANY stuck between you and your doctor!  They're even pushing for what amounts to "drive thru mastectomys"...giving birth is nearly a drive through process as well.

OUR PRIORITIES ARE ALL MESSED UP!  And yes, something's got to change....the hole we're in now is just getting deeper and deeper!

7:58pm • #147

Richard,

Please visit this site: http://www.naschip.org/states_pools.htm That site lists all 35 States that have State Funded (& partially Federally funded) Health Insurance Risk Pools. Through these pools you can obtain legitimate INDIVIDUAL Health Insurance on a GUARANTEED ISSUE basis. If you are in one of these states you WILL NOT be declined for coverage. If you have questions please feel free to ask.

8:38pm • #148
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According to the CBo, the "public option" (come on, call it what it is, the Government Option) WON'T bring down costs, it will only drive the companies out of business that have to compete with the government... the governemnt that has an unlimited deficit capability, and doesn't need to bring in nearly as much as they pay out... 

What WILL happen is that the private companies will become contractors to the government.  Costs will ONLY be contained by lowering levels of service.  We will have the stories that we hear about from Canada and Great Britain where people can't GET care. 

Learn about Quality Adjusted Life Year.  In a few years, with a history of heart problems, you won't be on the good side of the formula...

8:54pm • #149

I am all for health care reform.   I am also in favor of our elected representatives actually reading and understanding the bills that come for a vote.

I think that would be kind of neat.

 

Larry Smith

Mickleton, NJ

9:05pm • #150
161,439 Points 10 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

<<To Ruthmarie - So because the Right lost we should just shut up and put up Obama's socialist agenda?>>

You did it to us. We put up with plutocratic almost facist agenda with no mercy shown to anyone with less than 8 figures in their bank account.  We complained, we protested, we held rallies.  We were told that we weren't "REAL AMERICANS." Our patriotism was held in contempt.  Since the right is not sincerely trying to work with the dems...they are just playing a lot of game....my attitude no is go take a flying leap.   We will ram it down your throats just the way you rammed two wars, detainee  torture and runaway markets down ours.  The right was so bent on creating a "permanent majority" during the Bush years that they forgot to contemplate the very real possibility that they would over-reach and LOSE.  By holding the left in contempt they left the door open to the very tactics they used with abandon for 8 miserable years.  What goes around, tends to come around. 

9:05pm • #151
Outside Blog

Count me in as a supporter of the public option.  Would have liked a single payor system.  I cannot believe all the negative spin; I won't even entertain listening to the baloney any more. Thank you for your terrific blog - and I truly mean TERRIFIC.  It took a lot of courage to put yourself out there as you did.

 

9:06pm • #152
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A word about high deductibles...Just because you pay $15,000 in deductibles  (which btw, would be IMPOSSIBLE for many hardworking families) doesn't mean that its OVER and you have a free ride when you hit that limit.   No policy offers that and the fact is that you well find yourself booted off your policy should an illness start to cost your insurer major money.  There are also exclusions and fights as to what will or will not be approved.  Often this happens when the patient is engaged in the fight of their lives.  They are in no condition to have a massive fight with an insurance company.   Virtually all policies have lifetime maximums. It only takes one major illness to hit that maximum.

I laugh at people who say 80% of the people are happy with their insurance.  Yes, because at any given time, 80% aren't facing expensive, life threatening illness.  NO ONE knows how well their insurance will hold up unitl it is put to the test.  My father was very happy with his Medicare HMO. It was for profit - the premiums were low...it was great - until he was diagnosed with Stage 4 Colon cancer.  Just finding a surgeon who could handle the type of surgery AND BE COVERED by his plan was a monumental task.  Under pressure - most poliices are not performing BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO!


This system is very broken.  I worked on the periphery of this system for 15 years as a researcher in a hospital setting.  The problems were surfacing long before the general public was aware of it.  But the problems exploded after 911.  The doctors I worked with were spending most of their time trying to figure out how to get their treatments COVERED then in actual diagnosis and care.  It's been mess for some time.

9:26pm • #153
2 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

Great post, here are my thoughts:

To all those that say they don't want socialism, then we need to get rid of medicare, the VA health care system and social security ASAP because that's exactly what all these programs are.

To those that say 80% of people are happy with their health insurance, they must either live in a vacuum or they are fortunate enough that they are not using their plans for anything other than for routine purposes.

Our healthcare system is rated 37th in the industrialized world......many "socialized" plans rank far ahead of ours.

I am fortunate to be on my husband's plan(he is a full time employee of a great company) and our premiums have still doubled in the last few years.  Our copays have tripled.  Our prescriptions have gone up tremendously as well.

I can't think of a better way to stimulate our economy than to provide better and more reasonable coverage to all, so folks don't have to declare bankruptcy due to insane healthcare bills. 

Problem is many of the facts are distorted and we're too caught up in the rhetoric.

 

10:36pm • #154

This is a very individual response:

need a dexascan (bone density) Taken a med for 5 years known to cause bone loss.  Paying $1300 per month for husband/wife. Oh - dexascans are deductible expense! $4000 deductible not met yet.  Cost: Wake Radiology, Cary NC $560.  Raleigh NC Radiology $430. Rex Hospital $425 + radiology bill (NO ONE can tell me how much radiologist will charge to read it!) BUT if I am self-pay, and PAY day of test it will be HALF price!  WHY am I shopping for a dexascan like I would a used car???

I am to a place where in October when renewal is due for health insurance....I am NOT renewing at this rate/plan.  I am looking into HSA's and highest deductibles available.  $15,000 / year can buy something...right?  

Oh - what I've learned in the last several months: don't take arthritis meds - don't go for osteoporosis meds - and don't opt for cholesterol meds -- all of these WILL have your rates double, triple...etc.

Nellie Lytvinenko - Homes by Nellie - Raleigh Cary NC Real Estate - 919-367-0056

 

11:44pm • #155
AUG
28
Outside Blog

Dean, I know exactly what you mean.  I don't know why WE as Realtors can't get group insurance?  It's absolutely ridiculous that we get shut down year after year by lobbyists. 

12:35am • #156
Outside Blog

Dean, I know exactly what you mean.  I don't know why WE as Realtors can't get group insurance?  It's absolutely ridiculous that we get shut down year after year by lobbyists. 

12:35am • #157

I had two pet scans last year at $4995.00 each - my total co-pay was $24.00.  I want to thank all of you who picked up the tab for the $9966.00.  You don't even want to know how much you paid for my hospital bills (11 days in critical care unit) Just one of my medicines cost $895 per month and I have to take it for one year - my total copay will be $96.  As you might guess I'm not a proponent of the current health care reform proposals because I will definitely not be able to keep my current plan. For:  tort reform, personal accountability (if you are obese and have diabetes - it's not covered), national insurance competition, less government regulation but more professional accountability (if you screw up and kill someone you go to jail), more state control and less federal control.  Against:  anyone who thinks I'm stupid and just need to get out of the way and stop talking.   I do have one question?  Will stupidity be covered or would that be considered a pre-existing condition? 

1:13am • #158

Contact your congressperson. Ask them not to vote for the bill until...

  1. They have READ it and UNDERSTAND it.
  2. They will unequivocally abandon their own health care system and join the one they want to impose on us.
  3. It has a solid tort reform provision to limit malpractice lawsuits to a reasonable level so that doctors don't have to pay sky high E & O premiums and do myriads of unnecessary testing just to cover their butts so they can stay in business.
  4. They can present solid evidence that they can pass a plan that...
    a. Won't raise our sky-high taxes
    b. Won't be paid for by printing press "money"
    c. Won't increase our ridiculous deficit or our terrifying national debt
    d. Won't decrease the quality of our health care
    e. Won't create long waits to see a doctor or get needed care.

Of course we want to fix the things that are wrong with health care. All progress brings unintended consequences. Although science has brought great advances, it has not been able to find a way to pay the bills.

And if scientists can't do it . . . it's sure as heck that leftist politicians won't be able to do it.

It has been said that democracies last for about 200 years, because that's when people find ways to tap the government treasuries and bankrupt their countries.

It could happen here.

 

 

Bob Sharpe
1:59am • #159

Before all of you supporters of this government run healthcare system take out your checkbooks and start giving your hard earned money to the thieves in Washington (btw... both parties have their share of thieves), consider some of the people this President is surrounding himself with

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/16/obamas-mad-science-adviser/?feat=article_top10_read

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/sam-theodosopoulos/2009/07/10/fox-news-notes-communist-past-green-jobs-czar

http://www.examiner.com/x-3704-Columbia-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m8d27-FCC-diversity-czar-proves-Obama-govt-has-declared-war-on-America

I can hear you all saying that's just right wing hate and sour grapes for losing the election. But read what's written about some of these guys and tell me what's not true before dismissing it. 

Just take note that it is not only us "rightie tighties" and Fox News that are a little concerned with the number of questionable czars. Robert Byrd (long time liberal Democrat) also expressed concerns in this article in Politico, which, by the way is no right wing news source.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19339.html

This health care bill has less to do with providing quality health care for everyone and more to do with control of more of our income and our lives. Don't be fooled. Let's face it, it does not make sense to do this at a time when we are in a deep recession. The only reason they are doing it now is because they feel they can sell it better by saying "we will reduce costs" at a time when they know people are hurting financially.

Yes we do need to do something about the cost of healthcare in this country but this is not the answer. They sold us a stimulus plan almost a year ago that has done nothing but put us into deeper debt. Now they are trying to sell us this. I am sorry. I don't buy it.

8:27am • #160

Yes, we have a crisis in health-care and my buisness/income has sufferred as a 16+ year loan originator too.  However, let's review the facts.  VA healthcare is a failure (I had a grandfather and uncle that fought constantly with their Drs. to receive appropriate care), native Indians try not to get sick after June because their healthcare goesun-funded the rest of the year.  Medicare claims to be a success - I would too if I could buy anything I wanted and never had to pay for it!  Medicare is unfunded by the trillions of dollars.  Medicaid admits to $80 billion in fraud every year not to mention that they are insolvent too.

Let's look at other entities run by the federal government:  The US Post Office, $7 billion in the red this year and next year.  Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bailed out by the tax payer with Freddie's business down by 30%. I wonder if that has anything to do with HVCC and loan pricing adjustments for borrowers with credit scores < 740.   How is Amtrack doing? How long will the ponzi scheme of Social Security last?

You can keep your health care.  OK, if the government subsidizes the "public option", how long before private insurance goes under?  Medicare would receive cuts in service and reimbursements to Drs.  How long before these Drs. stop taking Medicare patients because they are personally footing the bill?  Now we have fewer Drs. and we want to help the "48 million" un-insured?  To re-cap, fewer Drs. that take Medicare and now not enough Drs. to help the "48 million" un-insured = rationing of health care because there are fewer Drs.  Not to mention Drs. just deciding to retire.  Contact me and I will send you letters written by Drs.

Drs. would be paid the same despite the level of specialization.  Why would you spend the extra time and expense in school to become a surgeon?  More rationing of healtcare...?

Pharamcy companies would be paid less for drugs.  Back to college economics: less margin, less R & D and new drugs, fewer life saving drugs that come to the market and healtcare advances slow down.

With two young children, I have been in our local emergency room 5 years in a row (they never get sick 9 - 5 during the week).  No one is denied healthcare, trust me.  Most of the kids in our case were illegal immigrants going in for free care at emergency rooms prices.  Your assignemnt: drop by your local childrens hospitals emergency room one weekend night.

Businesses with payrolls in excess of $400,000 would be forced to pay for healthcare for their employees.  It is estimated that over 5 million people would lose their jobs becuase of this legislation.

So what do we do.  Got to www.Heritage.org for alternative choices.

8:45am • #161

We need healthcare reform, just not the way it's proposed in this legislation.  READ THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION.   You would be horrified to see some of the items proposed.  Death panels may be an exaggeration, but GOVERNMENT COMMITTEES will be making decisions about your treatment.  Doctors will lose incentives to specialize.  Research (over 90% of which is currently performed in the US) will come to a screeching halt.  Illegals are covered in this bill!

More importantly, this is NOT, I repeat, NOT a plan similar to Medicare.  It is vastly different.  Plus, for those of us who have worked all our lives and paid for Medicare - it is not en entitlement, it is medical coverage WE PAID FOR!

I am dealing with a catastrophic illness in my family.  Under this bill, my Dad would be dead right now!  Why, because his treatments are expensive.  His rare disorder - which was caused by a MEDICATION - destroyed his bone marrow.  I won't go into the details, but he spent 5 months in the hospital with extensive complications.  He is making tremendous progress, but I can assure you that he would not have been treated under the proposed plan.  Today, he is 100% cognitive, walks short distances with the aid of a walker, and is transfusion dependent. 

My own personal insurance is very expensive, with a $5,000 deductible, plus due to one incident with kidney stones I have a $18,000 rider on my policy that excludes treatment for kidney stones for 1 year.  However, I do not want government healthcare!

Besides, like all entitlement programs, this is all about VOTES.  This is a huge POWER GRAB by the government, controlled by the democrat party.  Think about it, how has the democrat party won over so many people over the years - with GIVE AWAYS!  More and more entitlement programs!  Who do those people vote for?  The party that gave them the free-bees! 

Folks, this is total manipulation by the democrat controlled government with one outcome in mind.  Who will people vote for after the government GIVES them healthcare coverage.  The people who made it happen, of course! 

Who will pay for this massive government program - WE WILL!  If you think you are paying a lot for insurance now, just wait until the TAX INCREASES go in place to pay for this program.

NOTHING IS FREE!  Everything the government gives away is paid for with YOUR TAX DOLLARS! 

Again, I implore you to READ THE HEALTHCARE LEGISLATION, it is absolutely horrifying!

 

Debra Chiarello
9:48am • #162
Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Ok,  this is worth every MINUTE (ONLY 4) to watch this!  THIS HITS IT OUT OF THE  BALL  PARK !  AND IT ONLY has HAD 24,048 views...

It was taken inside Congress with a Congressman... YOU HAVE TO WATCH THIS...and YOU MUST PASS THIS ON!!!

 THIS IS IMPERATIVE EVERYONE SEE THIS!!  IT WAS TAKEN OFF THE VIDEO TAPES OF THE FLOOR OF OUR NATIONAL LEGISLATURE...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G44NCvNDLfc&feature=player_embedded

 

10:41am • #163

Amen Debra - fortunately our founding fathers realized that a democracy is mob rule.  As soon as the masses realize they can vote themselves entitlements, 50% + 1 now controls all!  Our brilliant founding fathers, therefore, set us up as a Republic and not a democracy.  Check out this link below.  It is an unbiased look at the various forms of government.  It is 10 minutes long.  Watch it and determine which form of government we are drifting towards and PASS IT ON.  Make sure your kids watch it too.  It has nothing to do about which party you favor.  Please, all comment!

http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/

10:44am • #164

There are a lot of things that can be done to remedy our health care problems. Tort Reform is the biggest and is not being addressed. Of course we keep voting in Lawyers and guess what they don't want Tort reform. Another thing is make everyone get coverage. The 21+ generation needs to be in the system to help the 40+ generation. It's no different than my paying school taxes all my life and not having a child in the system, it helped the folks who do keep their cost down.  Also I don't need to see drug commercials that require a prescription from my doctor. Save the marketing dollars, lower to cost of the medicine who I depend on my doctor to prescribe to me. I think there are a lot of things that can be done but our politicians don't want address those issues, they want the easy way out, let the government run it, like they have Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Not Good.

 

 

11:04am • #165
Hit Router

Great blog, thanks for beginning the discussion!  I'm 57, my wife 60, our monthly Blue Cross Blue Shield bill went up 15% to 810.00 per month, $5,000 deductible, no co-pay prior to meeting deductible. 

The National Association of Realtors is, frankly, weak when it comes to solving this problem for its members.  The association will say it's impossible to negotiate a national coverage plan for its members because the various state laws make it impossible for a blanket policy to cover members in different states and yet other organizations do it.  They also forget that they could use their membership as leverage on individual state levels also through the various state Realtor organizations as in the Montana Association of Realtors and thus negotiate a stronger medical package for us.  Where there is a will, there's a way.  However, if these organizations won't or can't negotiate on our behalf, we still have one another to turn to for support if someone can get a toe hold on negotiating on our behalf, maybe an independent insurance broker?  There is power in numbers, folks, don't forget we're all in similar circumstances and could use some good ideas.  Keep working at it!

11:38am • #166

Boy, you hit it the nail right on the head.  Well written explanation of the current situation.  Thanks for sharing.

11:58am • #167
Outside Blog

Vince, This YouTube video is exactly why we cannot resolve the health care crisis.  It is a shame that we have congressmen that re3sort to fear tactics and lies to convince us that the system is ok.  I do not have all the answers, but I know that distorting the thruth helps none of us.  We need to look at the facts and not ideology.

12:08pm • #168
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Dean as a 25 year + cancer survivor and Realtor I too have seen costs go up but like my car insurance I shop it. Right now we have BC/BS (in MI they have no pre-existing) but we have an HSA - we pay $484 a month + $3000 ded anything we do not use from the $3000 goes into a saving acct. Makes you think twice before using it too.

But as a business owner health ins is just another cost of doing business no different than my office space, my acct, my atty, my E & O, taxes, supplies ect ect ect.

One problem is medical abuse - for instance the big 3 gives medical to their employees and they go to the Dr for every little thing. Adding more to the costs is now there is a drug for everything. When I opened my RE buss 22 years ago they did not have a drug for dry eyes, allergies, male and female issues, depression and on and on. Then to top it off massive medical law suits.

This is what drives up costs people taking advantage of a system - kinda reminds me of real estate - give a loan to everyone, add tons of real estate agents, tons of mortgage reps and banks getting greedy and Crash. However, I do not agree with govt getting involved at all.

 

 

12:42pm • #169

@106 Hasani,

It's so fascinating to me that in 2009 we have a healthcare debate with the democrats introducing their plan and the republicans say that plan is dead wrong and they have the right answer with "their" proposed plan(s).  For the last 8 years no one in the republican party fought to get tort reform which is the "solution"  What happened?

You may be interested to hear Howard Dean's response to the question about tort reform. "This bill doesn't have tort reform because they didn't want to have to take on the trial lawyers. It would not get done."

I heard it with my own ears. I love Cspan... no spin, just exactly what they say.

12:57pm • #170

Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, "as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others"

--Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, health-policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget (writing in the Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).

Translation:  Medical care should be reserved for those who will not become a burden on society.

Dr. Mengele, call your office!!!!

1:50pm • #171

Thank God for the VA! My husband has the best treatment and Dr's,. The VA is not like it was years ago. If you need a specialist you are sent to a civlian Dr which the VA covers. My husband nearly died last year and the only bill we get is for his medications and a $50.00 co-pay for office visits. He spent 19 days in ICU and we don't owe a penny and every one of the Dr's in the hospital was paid. We paid NOTHING!

On the other my Ins if you can call it that has a $5000.00 ded which is paid 3 times a year.  I ended up in the hospital 3 times in 2008 - 2 days each time. Each time the hospital bill was $22,000.00, that does not include any Labs, Ct Scans, Mri.s or any Dr bills or medications or the emergency rm. My ins doesn't pay of any exrays. I had 6 Ct scans at $6800.00 each, 2 Mri's $2000.00 each so much more to list but I'm sure you get the point. Now I had to put what wasn't covered on a credit card and I max that out.  Not to mention the trips to the Mayo and that bill and to Vegas to another type of exray. Bankrupt yep.

I made the decision to be with my husband and missed sales , plus being sick myself. We are both Realtors and the medical issues  just added more injury to an already bad market.  I would gladly take the excellant coverage the VA gives anyday.

Bonnie Randklev
2:26pm • #172

As when shopping for anything... Consider deductible + monthly cost then decide if it is not best to OPEN A SAVINGS ACCOUNT and do it yourself.  With the current system it is best in most cases to do it yourself or go to Emergency Room screaming.

Those who are fight Universal Coverage does not realize we already have Universal Coverage.  The problem is how much it cost when someone waits for the Emergeny Room visit and the fact that our taxes end up paying for that visit.

CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!!!

3:51pm • #173

Dean,

Great post, and I agree with you that public health plan is a must in this country to give over 45 million people a chance to a healthcare. It is easy for those who have good affordable halth insurance to critisize the planned healthcare reform, to call it "socialistic", communist etc.... Don't you realize that those 45 million of people in this country who either can't afford health insurance or simply do not qualify because of preexisting condition, in case of any illenss especially serious illness they have a death penalty no matter if they are 2, 16, 40 or 80 years old? Simply because of lack of medical insurance. Public health care option in my oppinion is necessary to have a competition in currenty skyrocketing insurance premiums. I am talking about COMPETITION. Competition in the market (not only of health insurance) doesn't allow prices to go significantly up. This is the base of capitalist economy. Public option is not going to be free, people will still be paying premiums. Just multiply 45 million people (currently uninsured)  paying $100.00 per month in health care premium (this is just an example) if public health care option will go through. Do the math. This is the additional (huge) amount of money. Currently those people don't pay any premiums because simply they don't have a health insurance. It doesn't mean that if public option will become available, suddenly all of those 45 million people will get cancer or any other serious illness and the cost to cover their medical treatment will go up so high! I've heard so many stories about insurance companies refusing to give their ok  for specific expensive medical procedures and people had to die. 4 or 5 years ago I was checking about individual insurance for my husband (diabetic) through Texas state program for people who did not qualify for individual insurance through regular insurance companies because of preexisting condition. I was told that he would have to pay a premium of $1200.00 monthly for 2 years and his preexisting condition for this period of time would not be covered, this means doctors visits, treatments, medications etc which would cost thousands of dollars.  Many millions of Americans have similar situation......

4:29pm • #174

IT's a shame, I can't even get maternity coverage on an Individual plan.

5:19pm • #175

Tatyana,

There are several Individual Health Insurance plans that are available to you in the State of Colorado. Please contact me if you need guidance on finding the right one for you.

5:37pm • #176
579,639 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Please, before stating that there are 45.7 million people that can't get health insurance, please do a little research.  To start with, lack of health insurance does not equal lack of access...  Lack of doctors DOES equal lack of access...  Check out the doctor shortages in England and Canada.  And be sure to check out the shortages of facilities... 

But back to the 45.7 million people... 

  • subtact 9.7 million that are illegal aliens (now we are at 36 million)
  • subtract 17.6 million that make over $50,000yr. (now we have 18.4 million)
  • And remember, that 9.1 million of the above make over $75,000 yr.
  • About 14.4 million ARE ALREADY ELIGIBLE for Medicaid or SCHiP... but haven't bothered to apply... 

Remember, the seriously poor (under poverty level) are eligible for Medicaid already.  Those over 65 are eligible for Medicare.  Those under 21 are eligible for SCHiP.  That means that we are talking about people that make more than the poverty level and are between 21 and 64... 

And there is one other little cute fact... 

According to the US CEnsus Bureau, there were 297 million people in the US:

  • 201.7 million were covered by private insurance...
  • 80.3 illion were covered by government programs... 

Gee, that looks like 282 million peoplet hat were covered by government or private insurance...  Simple math leaves about 15 million that weren't covered... 

There are some overlaps... but the fact remains that even the US Census Bureau says that about 15 million people are chronically uninsured.  And of that number, many are insurable, but choose not to get insurance.

9:25pm • #177

Insurance companies should spend less time putting their names on HUGE Buildings and more time taking care of the people that pay for the care they SUPPOSEDLY Offer. "CareThey Offer - Yeah, but not without a FIGHT

9:39pm • #178
641,040 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Tatyana- My OB/Gyn for a vaginal delivery and prenatal care charges self payers only $1200, c section, the price goes up to $2500. That includes everything. Then you can broker a deal with one of the local hospitals getting a deep discount for self payers. If you don't make any money- here in Florida- you can go to Healthy Mothers/ Healthy Babies- they will put you on a payment plan and find a doctor for you, if you make less that qualifying for the payment program they put you into the maternity medicaid program. Not a bad deal at all! Katerina

9:48pm • #179
300,253 Points 27 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

Hey, Lane -

Damn - guess we were wrong about everything.  All is well - health care is ok!  Perfect, Even!

No need for a single change at all - must be our imagination.

President Obama - "Never Mind!"  Forget we even asked!

DEAN & DEAN'S TEAM CHICAGO

 

9:49pm • #180
AUG
29

Lane,

If 80.3 million Americans have medical coverage by government programs, this means that they cost our tax money. That's why public option is necessary, because it will not be free. People will pay their premiums competitive to private insurance companies. I think when you are not in people shoes who are not able to affrod EXPENSIVE individual insurance or do not qualify because of preexisting conditions, you are never going to understand it. And don't tell me that they simply chose to not have a medical insurance. They have no choice!  This is a choice of insurance companies!

12:27am • #181
1 Featured Post Outside Blog Hit Router

Hey Dean, I can really feel your pain. I am blessed to have a wife who is a teacher and her health care is great. Thank God that we are covered.

2:05am • #182
1 Featured Post Outside Blog Hit Router

Hey Dean, I can really feel your pain. I am blessed to have a wife who is a teacher and her health care is great. Thank God that we are covered.

2:05am • #183
7 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

As many of you know I've been out of the loop for awhile here in the rain...due to being chronically ill since Aug. 8, 2008 with a myriad of health problems, all big ones too!  Every timMONKEYe I thought I had won a batter, I got hit with some new weird thing out of the blue.

Bottom line now is I need a double lung + liver transplant to have a chance of living more that about a year and with any kind of quality off life.

I've spent the last 3 months going through the evaluation testing process to be listed for transplants that's another story :-)...just when I get that almost set up...BAMB KNOCK ME DOWN AND BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF ME...my insurance raised the rates so high we can't get it renewed!!

I don't have the $1.7 MILLION laying around to pay for it all + post transplant you have to be on lots of medications that cost $4-$5 THOUSLAND A MONTH FOR LIFE!!

REALTORS AND SELF EMPLAYED PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS GOTEN THE SHORT END BY HAVING TO PAY BOTH ENDS OF ALL TAXES.

Any brainstorms...bight ideas...ar members could hold a money raising rally...

Keeping my spirits up and praying for a miracle all well!

Love you guys, I'm going to get back to AR to catch up on my friends.  Liz

2:06am • #184
Outside Blog

In California, we are required to have auto insurance but not health insurance!  Where are our priorities?

1:49pm • #185

Dean...Keep in mind 44 states are currently swimming in red ink. Our state just passed 1 billion in new taxes, and cut 2 billion in services to cover 4 billion in debt. The Federal government does not have the money to pay for this. This is clunker health care reform. The government can't even pay the car dealers for all the clunkers taken in that didn't help GM or Chrysler. Everyone gets served if they go a hospital....no money, no job, and no insurance. It may effect their credit, but they will get waited on. Make insurance companies cross state lines, and do tort reform, and cut out fraud.

Jerry Gray CRB,CRS, GRI /Prudential Carolinas Realty / Winston Salem, NC

 

4:50pm • #186
579,639 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Dean - Sorry you didn't like me interjecting facts into your really good argument... 

Irena - Do you think that "the public option" is going to charge people under 21, over 65 or living below the poverty line for their insurance?  Really?  No, what it is going to do is ADD to the government expense.  And the ONLY way the government can reduce expenses is to reduce services.  Get ready for QALY. 

10:48pm • #187

HMMMM.  So much fuel for the fire that completely gets me hot!  This topic goes over with me like a lead balloon...  I am 35 and pregnant with my second child.  I have "CareLess" as my insurance carrier.  We are currently paying just over $1100 per month.  I just rec'd my renewal rates.  We are being hit with a 48.1% increase this year.  Last year we had 52.3% increase in our rates.  I have a six year who is healthy and my husband is healthy, as well as I.  Now I have one more on the way.  Seems no matter what I am screwed.  Insurance bastards!  I have spent so much time looking but cannot find anything "reasonable".  They might as well gang rape me month after month.  Talk about ridiculous.

Socialism disgusts me.  I'm not looking for a hand out or any freebie's.  Just the government to get their acts together and do the right thing.  Think about how much money could be saved in these few simple ways.

Tort reform.  I think the numbers I have been reading as well in excess of $200 billion dollars per year.

Why give illegals free health care?  Why give them anything for that matter?  When did America become the land of suckers?  And I don't need any answers on that one... LOL.

Allow the crossing of state lines to get more competitive rates and programs.  How about allowing associations to qualify for programs like some of the big employers do?  Who comes up with these rules anyway? 

43 million uninsured? Obama the Savor forgets to mention how many of those include the illegals, people who can afford it but CHOSE not to purchase coverage. 

Last but not least, where the heck does it say in our constitution anything about health care.  How many l have actually read these proposed bills and/ or the addenda they are attaching to it? 

Land of the free?  Free to whom?  I work my tail off to pay for benefits, grants, incentives, programs, you name it for many (not all) freeloading Americans (and too many non-American) who are expecting a hand out.  Our founding fathers must be so disappointed. 

 What has happened to common sense?  If stupidity were outlawed could you imagine how many of our "leaders" would be up the creek with out a paddle?  Someone must have been smoking crack when they came up with these ideas and allowed them to be put in place. 

Not whining just irritated.  Since our health coverage is going up we had to make the decision to pull our son out of private school or continue with our health "coverage".  Tort reform and not giving back to the illegals would be a huge help.

Renee Keshishian
11:26pm • #188
AUG
30
203,975 Points 6 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

It seems like everything has been said multiple times. Let me say that we need to debate this but out in public, not by passing an 1100 page bill that no one has had the time to read or digest. This type of railroading is very scary to me. We do need to reform our healthcare, but let's look at some of the options above before we hand it over to the government - who couldn't even run a brothel in Nevada successfully. Seriously, folks, if you're honest with yourself, you know the government is not really good at business - that's not supposed to be their job.

Sharon

3:11pm • #189
AUG
31
1 Featured Post

Dean,

Public Option is what we need.

Renee,  if we spend less money on Wars that hurt others we can spend more money on healing our own people. 

As far as free coverage for immigrants.. we are paying for it now in higher insurance cost since the hospitals have to recover the cost of providing care. 

Can anyone imagine traveling outside the U.S (perhaps to one of the "socialist" countries in Europe where health care is free ) and getting sick, or worse  an accident where you needed to be taken to a hospital or emergency room. What would you think if you had to go to a foreign hospital and you were denied medical care ? Health care is not a constitutional right but it is a Moral thing to offer. If you can afford it  you can always use private clinics and private doctor practice that will probably offer less wait time and more personal attention; however I am a strong believer that everyone should be able to have some basic health care.  

10:28pm • #190
1 Featured Post

Someone else wrote this but i will post it again ....

The govt runs the post office, public schools, the military, libraries, fire departments, police departments.  None of them are perfect - but which of these would you choose to get rid of??????

Health care is a necessity ! Maybe now the gov will look into what goes on with our food or thew quality of it  ( hormones and chemicals ) overprocessing; additives  and stuff that make us sicker.

There is a reason some european countries don't allow meat products from US.

11:49pm • #191
SEP
01

I have enjoyed your post Dean, and all the comments associated with it.  Whether you are a proponent of the "public" option or an opponent of the "governement" option it all boils down to one thing.

Whoever the U.S. government provides health care to they will now take on the role of a health insurance company and decisions will be based on simple economics.  How much has been budgeted for health care, and how many procedures do we have the money to cover.  If the demand for services exceedes the supply of money there will be a shortage in services.  The U.S. government could then impose price ceilings on services charged by hospitals or doctors for services but that will simply lead to a shortage of doctors.  The best and brightest will move on to other areas where there services can be utilized for what the market will pay them.

This is what has happened at the VA hospitals.  Our men and women who have been sent in harm's way should have the BEST medical care in the world, and our nation should stand behind them.  Lack of funding is one of the key issues why there needs have NOT been met.  Why are many senior citizens upset?  Funding for Medicare may be cut due to lack of funding.

I appreciate the arguments from both sides of the issue.  All I am saying is that we need to have our eyes wide open going into the final debate.  If the "public" or "government" option becomes a reality the government does have to decide how many people/procedures it will allow with the budgeted funding. 

As many of you have shared we do have a problem with health care costs going up at a rate much greater than inflation or even higher education.  I truely wonder if our elected officials have even analyzed WHY the cost of health care has gone up so much in the last 30 years?  Some of you have offered some very good explanations, and that could be the topic for a whole new post.

Great comments by all, now please contact your elected representatives and let them know.  Your voice does count!!!!!!!!!!

Bruce Walter
11:13am • #192
SEP
02

If you are over 50 and have had a bout with cancer you are really in for a ride.  Our Blue Cross policy for the two of us had a startling 25% jump this year.  The premium with a $5000 deductible is now almost $1600 per month.  We are going to join a health care association for $1000/yr with lab and dr. visits for $35.00 copay.  My husband, fortunately is an American Indian and can receive health care and medicine through his tribe.  Even if we have a catastrophe payment plans can be worked out and the monthly outlay will be less than $1600 a month.

Rita
9:55am • #193

NO,NO,NO DEAN....WE ARE "INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS"  RIGHT ??? THATS WHO WE ARE ,THATS WHO WE STAY, WE CERTAINLY DONT NEED THIS ADMINISTRATION TO TAKE CARE OF MY BANK,MY CAR, MY LOANS, MY ELECTRICITY, MY COMPUTER,MY SCHOOL KIDS ON THEIR FIRST DAY BACK,THE NEW TRUE CENUS ,INVESTIGATING THE CIA...OMG...AND MY DOCTORS....NO,NO,NO, NOT THIS GUY,WE"RE SMARTER THAN THAT . ALTHOUGH, I MUST ADMIT I AM A RIGHT WING TERRORIST,PART OF THE ANGRY MOB,SORRY...I SEND ANGRY LETTERS AND E-MAILS AND I CAN SWING A MEAN PLACARD !

Shirley from Scottsdale...
2:24pm • #194

Amen Amen Amen to that Shirley! Finally somewhat says it like it is! Add to that Obama's 3 dozen Czars who ONLY ANSWER TO HIM! Here are the people who he surrounds himself with. Keep in mind ALL of the "Czars" have high level positions in his adminstration. Obama's Czars in their own words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAKyIbbbdkc

If this doesn't wake up the Kool Aid drinkers, I don't know what else will!

2:42pm • #195
SEP
07
285,645 Points 3 Featured Posts

Not without tort reform and congress having the same policy. Lawyers run the government and will never settle for either.

1:38am • #196
SEP
18

Dean, Your post has really generated a lot of comment. I've read much of what has been said here and it's as polarized as the "town hall meetings" & media talk hosts have on their shows. Senator Baucus released his version of Health Care reform today and neither side likes it but the health care industry does. The fees charged against the insurance companies that he suggests to pay for the "reform" doesn't faze them as an insurance industry spokesman says they just raise premiums to pay for it. Incidentally, various insurance carriers stocks went up shortly after he announced his reform.  I don't have an answer to all the health problems but here are some thoughts.

1. Socialized medicine. Since July 30, 1965 the government has been managing health care (Medicare/Medicaid) for US citizens. In 1945 Congress refused to put it into law stating it was "socialized medicine" but Social Security administration looked at as insuring beneficiaries who could not afford health care. Solution: I feel that the law be repealed & the States should provide the coverage not Federal. Soc.Sec. tax money already collected should be sent to the States to provide Medicare/Medicaid/Soc.Sec. coverage with the Feds getting out of these programs all together. Social Security is a separate federal fund and is held in trust for future use (a good simple explanation: http://dictionary.sensagent.com/Social%20Security%20Trust%20Fund/en-en/).

2. Health insurance companies: They are monopolies created in part by state legislatures who mandate what minimum standards they are allowed to operate under (look at states subject to hurricanes & see how many companies service these areas today). However, they are no different from phone companies, power companies (Duke Power is increasing its rates by 15% to pay for federal eco-friendly systems mandates), cable companies & the list goes on. Solution: Mandate minimum standards of service nationwide & allow interstate commerce. Congress would be wise to receive input from the states' Secretaries of Insurance to conform this standard across state lines but if states themselves require tighter control over federal standards then we are back to status quo where only few will compete in certain states leaving people with no choice between companies.

3. Costs: The cost of health care is based on various conditions ranging from what doctors & hospitals charge to doctor/nurse payroll to what is & is not covered by your insurance policy (that's always changing). Solution: The only way to control costs to through tort reform & capping out of pocket expenses patients have to pay before insurance picks up entire tab. Also cap what hospitals & doctors can charge patients. Increase medical & nursing school teacher/student ratio; this goes with supply & demand labor costs (fewer professionals=higher pay). So called sin taxes (tobacco/alcohol) to pay for health care; now used to balance general fund Side note: Now they are talking about 1% sales tax increase on food that uses 1oz of sugar (bread, soda, yogurt, cake mixes, cereal, milk, etc) in its making or by product. A friend says he heard of a study linking typing & other repetitive work to joint problems (defined as longer than 20 min/day) and eye problems with computer/video screens longer than 30 min/day exposure; if studies hold out they will be classified as self induced & no coverage like tobacco & over/under weight (yes under weight is health risk).

4. Illegal Immigrants: Restriction of illegal immigrants to health care via emergency rooms visits. Solution: No easy, cheap solution. The hospitals themselves have said in the past they are not in the business of enforcement & won't deny emergent care to anyone that shows up. To validate legitimate citizens we would need a layer of law enforcement personnel between the patients & admissions/billing departments (increase payroll=increase fees/taxes). National IDs won't work because forgers are already making "unforgeable" IDs to allow illegals to work (recent news report said that a group had fake SSA documents & driver licenses from several states).

2:25am • #198

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