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If you masturbate - you'll go blind... How is that for Indoctrination...?

"If you don't do your homework, the nails will go an inch deeper into the flesh of Jesus Christ", - such was the opening line of my first philosophy lecture in college. Frank Ferrell was supposed to become a preacher or a minister, and was, as he put it, indoctrinated his entire childhood. When he did masturbate and did not go blind as a result - he turned to reason, logic and philosophy as a way of understanding the world around him. Of course, this was before the days of FOX news as republican propaganda machine; it was also before blogging and tweeting anything and everything that came to us via the news-that-dares-not-be-news.

The reason he always opened his first lecture with that story was precisely so that we, the students of that exceedingly liberal institution of learning, questioned everything. The point of learning was never about the answers, but the ABILITY TO ASK QUESTIONS, only truly stupid questions did not count.

Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the right wing broadcasters are not interested in their audience' asking questions - they are giving you the answers. All of them. And the answers are so black and white that you can't possibly not feel grand about being on the right side of the political spectrum. The alternative is just too scary.

Of course, it's never about the details of any bill, or an address to school children, as in the case of impending indoctrination speech on September 8^th. It is always about a greater, more sinister, more evil plan - a plan to destroy something we all love and cherish...our country.

So little Janes and Johnnies everywhere will go to school and be told by the dude in the White House something or other about education. They will be asked to set some goals, and stick to those. They may also be asked or told something or rather of civic duty - but it won't be veiled in the bloody flag of War on Terror, hence, it will be less than patriotic, in and of itself. Of course the oh so famous "Ask not what your country can do for you..." sentiment was not indoctrination in the least - it was patriotism, pure and simple. And we all know that NOTHING the current administration does can be either PURE or SIMPLE.

By all means, keep your children far away from schools on September 8^th. Save them from impending brainwashing on all things communist. Save them from listening to their President, because God forbid they ...gulp...find him an inspirational figure. God forbid they like what he says - because then you are screwed. You lose the control of your kids. Because some day they will learn that they WILL not go blind from masturbation, they will learn that ALL MEN WERE CREATED EQUAL, and God just might be a wee bit wiser than one involved solely in doling out punishments.

This latest bit of embarrassing obstructionism and fear mongering spawned by the very same pundits that make a killing solely on Propaganda and Indoctrination is yet another testament that people acting out of fear are, indeed, dangerous. So if you were looking for parallels to Hitler's Youth - it's your kids, not mine, that are being raised to take up arms and fight great evil, no matter how imaginary. Your kids, growing up scared of they know not what: "Children afraid of the dark, who have never been happy or good" - the new generation of fear mongering and scared foot soldiers for those with the mightiest wallets and smallest balls.

Cry, the beloved country, for you have spawned that which you abhor...

cause i rock...

Posted by Inna Hardison-ha media group Design, Printing, Web on 09/03/2009 02:44 PM

Comments (103)

the founders are indeed writhing in their graves, obama is to hitler like cheney is to mother freaking theresa, coffeedrinkersunite

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103 Comments on If you masturbate - you'll go blind... How is that for Indoctrination...?

SEP

Inna, you forgot one radio personality, How about Michael Savage?

The Obama speech to the school children, if we are speaking of the upcoming scheduled one has good and bad points. It IS an indoctrination speech. I think that most of it is good but I cannot swallow, will not swallow the "servant to the president mentality." Public officials are to serve us and NOT the other way around.

Edward - i was not aware you had access to the speech that has yet to happen. Or are you only going by the predictions of what will be in the speech at the moment?

The promo clip of the speech etc with some of HOLLYWOODS elites was played on the news this morning. The core of the speech has already been released. I look forward, like you to hear the actual text. It is also posted, the promo, on you tube but I have not been able to locate it.

Inna - I'm not going to worry about the details of your post and will feature simply because you wrote "masturbate" in the title. ;-)

Tchaka - well, thank you, i s'pose:-) You know, I've been dying to work that word into a title for a very long time.

Inna - Thanks and Bravo! While having the word "masturbate" in the title is always fun, I am more refreshed to read a solid piece of writing that counters, again, fear-mongering. What I find truly scary is that people don't want their children to hear what the president has to say and that they feel they must "protect" their kids from him. What I hear them saying is making me hear disturbing undertones...

Inna, I am totally speechless. totally! Interesting an above commentor has seen a clip with some of Hollywood elites? HUH? As always the wingers are putting the cart before the horse and getting their panties in a wad over something they haven't yet seen or heard. Must be a very stressful way to live!

Not at all Terry, not at all.

Inna - I always welcome opposing views and lively debate and seldom find extremism worthy of acknowledgement. But, the hypocrasy of the far right is suffocating. The same people who declared it un-American to even question the President a few years ago, now openly root for his failure. The same people who brushed aside suggestions that the creation of the 3rd largest government entity and declaration of wars need to be discussed, have now attached world-ending significance to providing health-care to the poor. The same people who claim to be on the righteous path to heaven blatantly treat others as inferior and use fear as a weapon instead of love as a tool. It makes me sick.

Edward - i would very much like to see actual links to snippets of the speech and the celebs portion of it. Googling it yielded no results, so do you mind? Please, share and we can all discuss this then.:-)

Inna, because we both have a vested interest in this subject, I have searched since it aired on national news this morning. I have yet to find it even though it was said to be available. The clip WAS played on the news this morning and was said to be posted. Courtney Cox was one of the Hollywood celebs that was in the clip. I will continue to look and assure you, if I find it, I will notify you. Note as well that I do not have an argument with Obama speaking to the school kids. I commend it as most pres in the past have done the same. I do oppose and will not drink the "we serve Obama" KoolAid.....and I do not think that you would either...at least I hope not. Conservatives, Liberals and Moderate politicians ALL stand to regroup.

Edward - is this possibly what you are talking about?

"To encourage ever greater levels of service throughout the country, MySpace and Katalyst Media, a production company co-founded by Ashton Kutcher and Jason Goldberg, teamed up with celebrities to record their personal pledges of service. The moving pledges illustrate how they will help make the nationwide change, inspired by President-elect Barack Obama, a reality. Directed by Demi Moore, the videos will be presented to President-elect Barack Obama during the inauguration festivities..." Click here to watch video

Amy - thank you. Disturbing is putting it very very mildly. :-) Let's just hope this paranoia is short-lived...though something tells me it won't be. Heck, maybe we just miss the colour coded terror alerts, to keep us "in - line", so now we have to invent something to be afraid of. Creatures of habit.

Inna, I watched the "national news" for about three hours this morning and I sure didn't see any "clips."

Edward, I can only surmise that all this "speculating" you guys do, will take its toll on you one day. I for one would rather deal with the facts, than "speculate" on the what ifs.

Terry - speechless - why?

Inna: I am having this response typed for me. Can't see a thing.

Erik - I know... Isn't it amazing what a few short months can do to one's overal sense of morality, sense of right and wrong... Conditional righteousness - a sacred cow of the new GOP. Thank you for reading.:-)

Scott - i think that's why they invented voice recognition:-)

OK Terry...you are right.....I just made it all up! It is a right wing conspiracy. I apologize for your NOT seeing the clips.

Edward - I am pretty sure the clip you are talking about is the one I linked to in one of my previous comments. It was accompanied by commentary to put it into an appropriate context - i.e the video was recorded (without any interference or help from Obama or the White House) by celebrities to inspire those who watch them. That's all. It was posted on January 20th. I see very little relevance in that clip to any proposed video address to the kids next Tuesday, other than FOX news chose to play it in their braodcasts as an indication of what the Presidential address will be like.

To call it reaching would be putting it mildly.

Here is the link again: Click here to watch video

Edward, I did not see the clips, which Inna has put in perspective for you, because I don't watch cluster FOX. Cluster FOX is NOT national news. And yeah, it is a right wing conspiracy. As Inna said, it was made last Jan. by celebrities NOT the president. See how cluster FOX twists things to fit their agenda?

Inna, speechless because it seems only the right wing is privy to the Obama talk to the students :-) I watched the clip, sorry I missed it earlier. Damn that is some scary shit. Pledging to be of service to the country. How novel. Wait, isn't that what military people do, and our legislators? Why is it we are the only ones who don't feel the need to do so. Yeah I totally love they way they have spun this as a pledge to be servants of Obama!

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/02/i-pledge-to-be-of-service-to-barack-obama/

Read the article on this website as it better explains the situation and displays the infamous "clip." I am sure that most have seen it before but not in the context of showing it at school.

I applaud the mother load of it's content but a good portion of it IS indoctrination at it's finest as it is replete with half truths and lies. I pledge allegiance to the flag......not Barak Obama.

Edward, your first mistake is reading anything written by Michelle Malkin. Your second mistake is you did not really listen to the content of the video. No where in this video, produced in Jan. by celebrites, of their own volition, not prompted by the hours old administration, no where did it say anyone should pledge to be of service to Obama except that one guy, who said it was HIS pledge. BTW what makes you think they are showing this in the schools? Michelle Malkin who hasn't told the truth since the day she was born?

Inna - If I was a betting man, I'd bet that was the clip to which Edward was referring. As you said, it was posted back in Jan. However, it has been used recently by at least one school, and the parents of at least some of the kids were rather upset with the "serve the President" message as well as the sense that this was intended by the school as a leftist propaganda video. (If your perspective is that it's "moderate" or "right-leaning", that says more about your own position than it does about the video itself. Likewise, if you see it as "left-leaning." ... without comparison to anything else out there.)

Update: Whoops! I see Edward has already responded. And as always, Terry is right. Despite the report, there's no evidence that any school is showing this video.

Inna, I'm pretty speechless myself. To have no respect for the President of the United States and/or the office. Poor kids. One day they will be adults hopefully capable of forming their own opinions. Maybe the President will tell them to do their homework and work hard. Indoctrination? Paranoia.

I will always remember the day I was in third grade when the principal announced President Kennedy was assassinated. I remember him speaking about the peace corps. "It's not what your country can do for you...It's what you can do for your country".

Mitchell - I mostly agree with you. However, there's a big difference between "country" and "President." If he, and the teachers, and administrators, encourage kids to do their best to get a good education and contribute to the betterment of our country and society - as the latest revision of the leaked speech information indicates - then fine. But if he (unlikely, I think) or the teachers/administrators (far more likely, at least in some areas, I think) change the message to "It's what you can do for your President" or "Democrat values" or anything similar to that, then "indoctrination" will be a fairly accurate descriptor.

Edward - I am suddenly no longer surprised that you could not locate any of the sources for your initial commentary on my blog prior to this bit of brilliance from Malkin. Now, if you could, please still answer me how this video is RELEVANT in ANY WAY to anything the President will say on the 8th of September. I really, truly want to know.

David - is just don't see the relevance of that video to the current 'doctrine-o-phobiacs' Obama nor the White House had nothing to do with producing that video. I think for the purposes of this particular discussion, it is more telling that MSNBC or The Daily Show were also NOT involved in producing the video, rather in stark contrast to a series of right-wing propaganda videos produced by Rupert's baby.

That aside, we are still a free people, David, are we not? The people freely elected President, who would like to address the youngsters. Why do we need to accuse him of every sin imaginable well in advance of that speech and stage massive protests is beyond me. Whatever happened to the idea of talking to our kids when they come home from school and if something comes up, be it a question or anything else, shoudn't your child give your words more credence than ANY celebrity on TV?

It's the Fear and outrage that bothers me. Much like trying to sell the populace on the idea that VA's your life your choices was successful at having vets choose euthanasia over treatment. I tend to give people a bit more credit than that, but that's just me.

Mitchell - I guess that would have had to be before the Peace Corps was a anti-American, anti-Capitalist, anti-God organization.:-) Times-are-surely-a-changin'

Inna - As I've tried, perhaps feebly, to say, you're right - this video, in and of itself, has pretty much NOTHING to do with next week's lesson for students. However, at least one school did use it with its students, and later apologized for the misstep. (The Administration claimed they hadn't seen it before showing it to the students, but rather it was chosen by some in the PTA.) And combining that fact with the initial-release of proposed questions for students to answer... questions along the lines of "How do you plan to follow the direction of the President?"... it's not all THAT tough to figure out where some teachers were likely to take this.

I don't see the President, personally, taking it there. I don't see him making a call for students to "worship" him, or even "serve" him.

I do see some teachers or possibly a few left-leaning schools promoting the idea of serving the President, and even insinuating something along the lines of the appropriateness of "worshipping" him. However, if I had a child, and my local government-run school was inclined to lean in that direction, I would have known about it LONG before this, and I would have already addressed it with my child's teacher(s), the administration, and also with my child (to assure they were thinking, and discerning (to the ability that their age allowed), and getting educated appropriately - in reading, writing, etc - and learning how to interact with others in a reasonable but firm manner. So, even if I had a child in a government-run school, this talk would not be a major concern.

I never saw the big concern either. No matter, I will have my child out of school that day for a 5 day wekend trip up to the Wisconsin northwoods. I will listen to the speech on the radio with the whole family if we can get it on the radio.

I was surprised, upon my 13-year-old's return from school today, when he told me that the superintendent of his school district had instructed the schools not to show the speech. I don't know if there was a reason given. You can only get so much out of a 13-year-old.

I've watched the clip a couple of times now, and for the majority of the video, its celebrities stating their own pledges, nobody is telling anybody else what to pledge. And the majority of the pledges are about pretty lofty things like ending hunger and slavery, taking care of the environment, caring for friends and neighbors, etc. How naive am I that I can't see a hidden agenda here??

As I understand from the lesson plan to accompany Mr. Obama's speech next week, he's encouraging students to study hard, set their own goals and work to achieve them. God forbid the president of the United States stress the importance of education.

Moreover, I didn't see anything in the outline that demanded or implied children begin worshiping him. The celebrity-produced video has nothing to do with the speech. Maybe if we could run it backwards we could find the implanted brainwashing propaganda???

David, the school that showed the video and upset the parents was in ultra conservative Utah. No surpise there. Talk about indoctrination, thats one state that does a pretty good job of indoctrinating their kids.

Amy, I'm pretty sure that Glenn Beck has already run it backward looking for "implanted brainwashing propaganda." Since he hasn't mentioned it, there must be none there :-)

Patrick, maybe the school super is afraid of all those "hoods" in Chicago :-)

Mitchell, you were only in the third grade in 1963? OMG you'er making me feel very old )-:

Inna ~ Your hatred for Christianity and everything that is not liberal is frightening. While Fox News is appalling to you, how about all the other liberal news that fails to report the truth to the American people.

I have been in church and bible school and been ordained for almost twenty years and I have never read anything such as you will go blind if you masturabte in any of the theological books I have studied.

You say Rush and Glenn Beck do not listen to questions is insulting.

Liberals are listening to America lately? The president's poll is falling like the Led Zeppelin because he fails to understand that it is not crazy right wingers who are mad as hell about all the liberal spending and the 9 trillion dollar debt Obama and the liberal congress has spent us into the poor house, it is those who now see that they made a huge mistake believingthe state run press who made the most liberal man in the senate who was running for president look like a middle of the road candidate who was for change and transparency.

All those lies from your beloved liberal state run press are turning on Obama and the libs, and not you or Huffington Posts or MSNBC or CNN or ABC, NBC can put humpty dumpty back together again.

People are rejecting communism just like they rejected communism in your hometown, the former USSR.

MY HOW YOU ARE BLINDED BY YOUR OWN CONCEITS.

But you have your few cronies always agreeing with you I see, and that will never change.

Enjoy yourself for now, but America will soon throw your liberal idols out faster than a New York minute.

Terry - So now you're not surprised that it was shown in a school recently? Are you saying your dogmatic, and prejudicial (or would that be racist?) statement that the Asian-American, Michelle Malkin, "hasn't told the truth since the day she was born", was, in fact, a lie? Oh my!

As for indoctrination of the kids in Utah... who do you contend is indoctrinating them? The State? Or the Parents? Or someone else?

If you want to indoctrinate your kids with emotional mush, that's your place as their parent. And if I want to indoctrinate my kids with something else, that's my place as the parent of my kids.

But the State has no business indoctrinating anyone's kids. Educating - in literacy (both reading, and writing), and math, and science skills/knowledge, and reasoning skills - is one thing that's appropriate for the State Schools to be allowed to do. Hopefully you'll agree that indoctrinating them to hold any particular political position is completely inappropriate. (And I think it's just as inappropriate if they're indoctrinating kids in Conservative, or Libertarian, or Liberal, or Authoritarian politics.)

Nicholas- Well said, we now see these people for what they really are, hate filled socialists and fascists. Rush Limbaugh once said when the democrats are in charge its fun, we get to see their true selves. Its like watching a train wreck.

Inna, I can not remember a time in my life when I did not question everythingand I am smart enough to know that the truth about our president lies somewhere in between your beliefs and mine. The dirreence is I admit what I am. I am a rigfht wing Bible thumper and proud of it. As you defend everything Obama does you need to do two things. Look around you home and realize that capitalism has made you wealthier than most of the world, and that is true even if you are in the bottom one percent of the country. And second admit that you want to overturn that very system. I think if you look back in AR you may see that i was the first to say Obama was following the same political route as Germany did under Hitler and although I don't think he is the same evil man as Hitler I stil think he is following the same poltical power grab outline.

I believe that if you have only two days worth of food for your family and see someone else with none you should share it with them and then trust in God to provide food for you tomorrow. But I also believe it has to come from your own heart and morals and i will never agree that govt should be taking it from you to share with others. That may be a simplistic way to put it but i do think it would work better that way.

Recently we have seen a couple of congress people extoling the virtues of Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro,I may completely disagree with them but at least they are not hiding behind teleprompters and fancy speeches. I think our country as we knew it died with Tarp only history will show whether or not that was positive but the one thing I really hate is hypocrisy we have a President who campaigned a little left of center and still gives speeches that way but meanwhile is slowly surrounding himslf with avvowed communists. I wouldn't like him any better if he just came out and admitted his true feelings but I would surely respect Him more.

I never cared for Dick Cheney in fact i think he is an evil man but I respect him. I think I would have a hard time being in the same room with Maxine Waters but you never have to guess where she is coming from.

I guess what I am treying to say is sure Rush and Glenn Beck are biased and both a little nuts but for you to summarily disregard everything they say because you happen to be at the other end of the spectrum make you know better, if you are going to look at everything fairly look a little closer at your own guy and realize not everything these guys are saying is false. If you don't mind what is happening fine i can respect that but don't say it is not hapening.

SEP

And furthermore, Inna, for you to say that your illustrious professor, because he didn't go blind after he masturbated, that there is no God, is outrageous, but to your liberal friends this is wisdom.

I know you enjoy hearing yourself speak and your writing skills make other liberals who supports your cause shout your praises, but you are really beginning to sound as absurd as you make those who you say are against free speech in America.

Your demonization of anyone who has free thought against your communist views is frightening, but again, you are the first one to shout freedom of speech, but only for those with the same Marxist beliefs as you.

Inna, I didn't know cluster FOX was the only reliable news source available! Who woulda thunk they actually told the truth about anything! You really must tone down your anti-christian rhetoric girlfriend. It almost reminds me of freedom of speech :-)

David my distain for Malkin has nothing to do with race. SHE is a flat out liar, with a hate filled agenda. Surprised you hadn't noticed any of that. No I'm not! I suppose because I believe that anything Glenn Beck says is also hate filled lies, that makes me a sexist? Stretching it here David, stretching it. As you are with your indoctrination rhetoric. Where were you when bush I and The Gipper addressed schools nationwide? Did you yank your kids out of school then?

David - I am glad then that you would not be too terribly intimidated by anything 'goernment-run' school could throw at your unsuspecting kids.

On another note, and just to address the video we are apparently all discussing with or without actual relevance to anything, - outside of RHCP dude kissing his arms and committing himself to Obama personally, what other issues do you have with it? I am asking because my interpretation of the entire clip was that the pledges were PERSONAL in nature, recorded by celebs to express what THEY individually wasnted to devote time and energy to... Some were jokey, some serious and some outrageous, as it should be when different people are involved. So how can any of it be considered a) propaganda, and b) something to be afraid of?

Patrick - I am not sure whether or not the school district here will broadcast it either, but we'll catch it on the WH website later if not. Good to know that you are not taking your kids out of school just to avoid the 'scary monster' though:-)

Thank you for commenting, and have a great trip.

Amy - now that's funny. Maybe if we connect first letters of the celebs last names and make a word out of them - it'll spell communism:-)

Nicholas - I harbour no hatred for Christianity or capitalism, for that matter. I must say your tone is a bit on a nasty side, and unnecessarily so. You really don't need to scream me down, Nick, or call me names. If the point of this blog escapes you - that's too bad, and it happens to the best of us.

BTW: USSR is pretty far removed from 'home town'. I am just sayin'

Larry - see my response to Nick. Some day you might want to consider posting a comment that contains a bit more substance than a few choice insults. Take a look at Hugh's, for examples on how to achieve that.

Hugh - I do question everything, my friend, including this administration, as I have done with every previous one. There are, however, certain sentiments that have their way to the mainstream phsyche of the Americans that I find beyond offensive - the Obama Hitler comparatives being at the top of that list. There are rallying calls put out by the extremists on the proudly right wing side of the fence to be armed, dangerous and ready to fight some impending battle that I find not only disheartening but dangerous in the extreme. The reality is, Hugh, that most people who show up ready to fight something do NOT actually know what they are fighting, and couldn't define communism if you paid them. They gulp every bit of mis-information, swallow the cliches and are simply manipulated into doing soomeone else's bidding. That frightens me.

If there is any truth in anything coming out of FOX and resistnet et al - it will inevitably get lost in the hyperboles to those like me, Hugh. I can't get past the preaching screaming overtones and accusation of all things sinister and evil. They can keep calling these thinly veiled insults facts all they want - they'll always be preaching to the choir.

Inna - I hope you'll allow me to jump in here, albeit a bit late. Is it just me or does it seem like the fear-hate speak is being ramped up more and more with each news cycle? The insults being hurled from the right make it so hard not to retaliate in kind and yet we endeavor to be civil. Socialist/communist indoctrination in our public schools? It seems unimaginable that the people regurgitating this horse feces can say it with a straight face but there they are for all to see. So the POTUS will address little Jimmy and Julie in school encouraging them to set educational goals and the GOP goes ballistic? This is evil socialist indoctrination?

I am finding it exceedingly more difficult to take anything these people say seriously. The outrageous leaps to illogical almost maniacal conclusions the GOP would have us make are beyond reprehensible. This is patriotism? This is protecting our constitution? The GOP zealots have hijacked all sensible constructive debate on nearly every issue by resorting to distortions and out right lies and yet we still try to treat them respectfully. I think the gloves need to come off, now!

John - my gloves are off:-) Born that way, I guess, much to everyone's chagrin.

Glad to know I am not alone!!! How does Monday sound?

:-)

Inna-What makes you think I was talking about you? Just because you support a socialist and fascist doesn't mean I was calling you one does it?

Inna - If I had kids in a government-run school, I would be doing my best to be an actively involved parent in their education, and part of that active involvement would be to do my best to assure they weren't bullied nor blind-sided by teachers or administrators to push their personal views. As a result, minor things like this upcoming address by the President wouldn't be of major concern. In fact, if he does what he supposedly is going to do - encourage kids to get a good education - and the teachers and administrators reinforce that message (and only that message), then I'd be applauding it as vigorously as anyone - Left or Right. (And I strongly suspect all those who are in opposition to this post of yours would join in on the applause.)

As for "issues" with the other video...

3:17 - as you pointed out, is a pledge to serve the President

3:54 - another pledge to serve the President

Is the President a Public Servant, or is he the "Massah" on this big Plantation called the US of A? If these are only personal, and not meant to influence, why is the repetition necessary? What other pledges were repeated? Were all the rest of the pledges so unique that only one person or couple was making that pledge?

While it's true they're all saying "I pledge...", did you happen to notice the end? There, they turn it into an overt call for others to make pledges... presumably modeled after the ones just voiced. If it was merely their own personal pledges, why spend the money, time, effort, etc. to turn it into a clever, slick video/ad?

I just don't buy the talking point that it's only personal.

As for it being propaganda - it hasn't been shown to be directly attibutable to Obama, and likely would never be able to be shown so. So it's unreasonable, based on facts, to claim it's Obama's propaganda. But it is (clearly) attributable to Obama's followers. And undoubtedly funded by one or more of his RICH beneficiaries. And it's most definitely "deliberately spreading ideas to help or harm a person, group, movement, etc." So, in that sense, it's propaganda - just not directly attributable to Obama. (Of course, what really is directly attributable to him? Are even his speeches really his? Or is he just a mouthpiece for someone else? Reading their words off of a teleprompter. He's certainly turned all legislative proposal-making over to others.)

As for it being "something to be afraid of" - I don't recall ever saying that. I'm not "afraid" of it, and I don't think others should be either. Certainly not "afraid" in the sense that Obama has promoted fear as the impetus for rushing through all the spending that the Dems in the Legislature have proposed. But, "a bit concerned" or "something to be watchful of" is an appropriate description of my view of it. Regardless of who's leading our country, I think we should remain watchful of them and their actions. They are, after all, there to serve us, and so, we should all be keeping an eye on them - as any good employer would.

Terry - Glad to see your "distain (sic) for Malkin has nothing to do with race."

Yet, you're back (again) to claiming that "SHE is a flat out liar..."

So which is it? Was she lying when she claimed that a school had used the video? Or were you lying when you said, "Michelle Malkin ... hasn't told the truth since the day she was born?"

As for the "hate filled agenda"... you really would do well to look in the mirror, or at least pause before hitting "Submit Comment", and consider toning your rhetoric down a notch or two.

But you've heard all that before, and ignored it. I won't hold my breath while waiting for you to actually respond to a question though.

Inna - I have to laugh due to the abject name calling and slanderous remarks made by some here regarding your so called Marxism, Fascist, Communistic and Christian-hating ways. These kind of responses certainly belie to me, a delusional and pathetic dissconnect to the reality of a public discussion and the trickle down effects it could have. This is, first and foremost, a social netowrking site. Sure this is a political forum, but to toss your vileness and possible law suit producing banter into the ring so carelessly, makes me wonder how these commenters would treat a client who does not share their particular belief system. And, please don't bore me with the Realtors Code of Conduct, I have seen countless horror versions, albeit just previews, of it right here on this site.

And for those of you who are involved with church and bible school and ordained, has your real estate career taught you anything about brand marketing? Unless your church is filled with hatred and intolerance, well then, you are spot on in your message.

Terry- You said, "SHE is a flat out liar, with a hate filled agenda."

Can you give a example of what she has lied about?

And the dog continues to chase it's tail ...I hope one day that you catch it!

So much for thoughtful discussion on topic...

The "right" get all bent up and angry because they emulate bent up, angry people who tell them that's how they're supposed to feel. No thought given. Just reaction. But, by no means could scarfing down the crap cakes being flung around by all these freak show side vendors be construed as "kool aide"...

For all of you who are likening the president to Hitler and actually believe he is "indoctrinating" the youth by speaking to them, let me ask you something. If he is actually conspiring to turn our country into some kind of fascist/communist/socialistic society, do you think he'd blow his sinister plot in a speech to children? Of course not, he's far too cunning for that, right?

So let your kids pay attention to the president. Let him tell them to do well in their studies and not give up hope on their future as bleak as it may seem now. What the hell else could he tell them?! And if even one of you says, "well that's what we're afraid of" before giving it any REAL thought, remember you're full of shit...

Indoctrination of youth...

For those of you not willing to watch the ten minutes, here are some quotes from the clip:

"Governement is the enemy", "This is War", "Are your Ready to Fight?"... "the soldiers of Jesus ... the Army of Jesus"

But I am sure Nicholas sees nothing whatsoever wrong with anything in this clip. Just keep our President from speaking to the kids though... Cause, yah know, he is truly dangerous.

Michelle - something tels me most of these loud and careless name-callers only engage in this behaviour on other people's posts, and keep their own political and other banter in the rather convenient members only corner.:-)

Inna - interesting new video clip. As with the "I Pledge" video, I can't agree with everything. But to turn the table a bit, do you have a problem with people sending their kids to a camp where they will be taught the kinds of things they (the parents) believe? Do you object to kids being "brainwashed" to believe that hypocricy is bad? Do you object to kids being called to stop being hypocrits? Do you have a problem with kids being encouraged to wish for, hope for, or (horror of horrors) pray for a government that's good, honest, fair, & right? (All synonyms for "righteous.")

For myself, I'm still in transition. As a result of some of the things I heard here, I've become less comfortable with the prayer "God use me", just as I'm uncomfortable with kids asking their parents to use them. (There's a sense in which that might be appropriate, but often it's just abusive.) So I won't completely endorse the camp.

However, despite the slant the movie-makers have put on this, the main messages I've heard so far (about 6 minutes into it - I'll get to the rest later - I gotta run right now) are generally harmless if not good. And certainly nothing sinister - given that the parents voluntarily send their kids to that camp - unlike parents sending their kids in to school, which is mandated by law and enforced with taxes, and police force.

David - if you truly did not find anything sinister in that clip, there are no words in the beautiful language of ours for me to be able to elucidate the matter for you.

:-)

Sorry, Inna, neither in that video, nor in the "I Pledge" video do I see anything "sinister." (That's the word you, and only you (until Jen echoed you at 2:12pm today) have used in this discussion.)

Would I send my kid to that camp? Nope. But just because I disagree with some of their teaching doesn't necessarily mean their teaching is "sinister."

My dear David - a bunch of 8-year-olds pledging to die for Jesus while chanting "This Is WAR" is pretty freakin' sinister to me.... I mean, at the very least, much more sinister that some celebrity pledging to turn the lights off, drive a Prius or help end slavery in the World....:-)

Inna, isn't that exactly what some in this country abhorr the most, the madrassa (sp for sure) form of indoctrinating Moslem children? What the hell is the difference? They are taught to die for Allah while chanting war, war, war, and our kids are taught to die for Jesus while chanting same.

Terry - It's odd to say the least that the Jesus Camp folks don't see any similarities.

Edward - so who is the dog?

Jen - sorry, i didn't mean to ignore your comment. This spinning of any event into a rallying cry against the administration is indeed beyond help of a resaonable discussion. The premise the right wing argument is based on is just so bizarre on its face, that one almost can't argue against it.

Sad state of affairs, indeed.

Larry - Malkin lies all the time, just snopes it, or visit media matters, or Google it, Bing it, whatever and you will find your sources.

Here goes one from the very story referenced in the comments to this post (i believe by Edward) and I quote:"Coming to a classroom assembly near you..." followed by the video recorded by celebrities for the Inaguration of the President, and, as already pointed out so many times, having no correlation to the proposed speech on the 8th.

Inna- Thanks for finding that but it was a separate post on her website that lead in with this line.

"As if I needed any more evidence to bolster today's column about the Obama junior lobbyist campaign in America's schools, here's another item fresh from the headlines in Utah:"

Then she posted the separate story and video.

I will google it to see if I can find a lie.

Ultra conservative Utah, a state where most of the kids are themselves indoctrinated. Don't think I'd put a whole lot of stock in what comes out of Utah Inna :-)

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Larry - here is the link to the story.

Your are right, the story was talking about the Utah incident, but that line I quoted: "coming to a calssroom near you" was indeed a lie, meant to scare people into believing that their kids will be made to watch the I Pledge video.

See, she is a freaking liar.

Inna,

I'm not here to argue with you but to shed some light on the Jesus Camp Indoctrination. What makes this particularly difficult is to try to convey Christian beliefs to someone who rejects Christianity.

The first clip in the video is teaching children that idolizing a warlock such as Harry Potter is a sin. Witches have been put to death by the church for centuries. It is against God to believe in witches, warlocks, mediums or clairvoyants. I saw no problem with that clip.

The next clip dealt with being a hypocrite. Acting God like at church but cursing at school. The message was you are the soldiers of the army of God. To be a soldier for Christ you cannot be a hypocrite. I saw no problem with teaching children not to curse.

The next clip dealt with those individuals and those in the government that would remove God from our lives. The breaking of the cups was symbolic of breaking the government that disavows God in our lives.

Remember it was governments not other religious leaders who forced Christians into the catacombs or slaughtered them for praying. You were put to death in Ireland if you were caught performing a mass or participating in one during the 1600's. The Cromwellian Period. I saw nothing wrong with this clip.

In the previous clips and in the next one you are seeing hands and arms raised. You see children with tears streaming down their faces. You are not seeing anyone beating them. No one is abusing them or doing them any harm. You do not see any adult near a child. You do not hear an unrelenting stream of brain washing rhetoric.

What you hear is the facilitator asking the Holy Ghost to fill the hearts and spirits of the participants . What you are seeing is charismatic or Pentecostal worship. When the Holy Ghost comes down you become transformed. Some people experience exhilaration, faints, laughter, tears and speaking in tongues. The tears are the result of emotion when you are touched by the power of the Holy Spirit. Certainly nothing was being said to the children to achieve such an emotional display.

I have participated in Healing Masses in the Catholic Church that are Charismatic similar to what was being shown. No one forces the responses. They are natural and brought about by being touched by the Spirit.

Now comes the clip that talks about war. Prior to saying war the facilitator mentioned St. Paul and previously quoted his message about war.
"(1 Corinthians 12: 8-11)? Every one of us is a soldier in the Army of the Lord."

It is not about mortal combat or physical war. It is about the spiritual war Christians fight everyday. I did not hear dying mentioned at all. I specifically did not hear dying for Jesus. I may have missed it, but the context of dying if it existed, refers to Christians being slaughtered. St Paul is referring to the Christians who died in the lion pits rather than denounce their God.

St Paul calls upon all Christians to war against sin. Below is an interpretation of St. Paul's teachings. The weapons are clearly spiritual.

There is absolutely no correlation to the Muslim teaching that you should kill all infidels. No where in the bible will you find God calling upon his followers to do anything except love one another. To say that war is being taught here and it is the same as Jihad is false.

"The Apostle Paul reminds the church the war is not after the flesh. In other words, he was in a spiritual warfare. He was not guide by the views, and policies of this world, God was his rule. He took the gospel of Jesus Christ beyond the Corinthians. He warred against sin, idolatry, and all form of evil (Ephesians 6: 10-13). He understood this invisible war could not be fought with weapons of this world, but with spiritual weapons that are mighty through God. So, it raises a question, what are our weapons for fighting this spiritual warfare (Romans 1:16), (Ephesians 6:14-17), (1 Corinthians 12: 8-11)? Every one of us is a soldier in the Army of the Lord. Some of us are generals, lieutenants, colonels, master sergeants, and some are foot soldiers. We are to carry the blood stained banner to victory (1 Timothy 1:18). The weapons of our warfare are mighty only through God. It is by God’s power that we can be effective in our witnessing, preaching, teaching, and any other ministry God has for us to do.

The Apostle Paul gives the purpose of these weapons: pulling down of strongholds, casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalt itself against the knowledge of God (Pride)… What are strongholds? Stronghold is defined as a fortress or strong fortification (position) - Something that ordinarily cannot get out or come in. In this context and in a spiritual conception, a stronghold is that event that happens in your life or that seed thought that have been planted in your heart by the devil and he uses it against you to keep you from being what the Lord would have for you to be. Strongholds cause one to act out of character. It plays on your soul, your emotions and mind. Strongholds are those deep seated issues that lay in the heart. Strongholds are fortified in the heart and cause one to manipulate others, deceive others, practice witchcraft and do other ungodly things. All strongholds can be torn down by the power of God. "

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Inna - I don't think you know how nasty you sound when you use Christianity or anyone who is not liberal enough for you and try to cast a shadow of something sinister or anyone who believes in God is some sort of a backwards idiot, and you say I am name calling because I say I have never heard of such in the churches I have attended.

Perhaps, you should do some research before you quote your left wing professors, as siting truth.

But, if you can't see the one sided press reporting on the left, the NBC'S and the MSNBC'S, and the other state run press who only report how crazy people are who oppose this social engineering this administration and the most liberal congress in history are trying to ramp down our throats.

I will take a quote from someone...

Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining...

Bonnie - I suppose I, too, should quote, to respond to your rather lengthy quotage:-) In my opinion, an 8-year-old kid will be hard pressed to be able to take any of the teachings in the metaphorical sense you keep alluding to. So words like: "This is WAR, and Government is the Enemy" are indeed dangerous, when chanted by these youngsters.

Psalm 144 "Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight"

"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods", do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death." Deut. 13:6-9

"Then [the Israelites] utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, sheep and asses, with the edge of the sword." Joshua 6:21 "And the Lord our God gave him over to us; and we defeated him and his sons and all his people. And we captured all his cities at that time and utterly destroyed every city, men, women and children; we left none remaining..." Deuteronomy 2:33 "Samar'ia shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open." Hosea 13:16 "Men'ahem sacked Tappuah; because they did not open it to him, therefore he sacked it, and ripped up all the women in it who were with child." 2 Kings 15:16 "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling..." 1 Samuel 15:3 "'Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women...'" Ezekiel 9:5...

And here is a bit of analytical text for you to consider, for those times when you state that Jesus Camp teachings are in no way related to the Jihad, and the passages and calls to action, are, indeed, peaceful, predicated on the oh so peaceful teaching of the Bible:

"In terms of ordering violence and bloodshed, any simplistic claim about the superiority of the Bible to the Koran would be wildly wrong. In fact, the Bible overflows with "texts of terror," to borrow a phrase coined by the American theologian Phyllis Trible. The Bible contains far more verses praising or urging bloodshed than does the Koran, and biblical violence is often far more extreme, and marked by more indiscriminate savagery. The Koran often urges believers to fight, yet it also commands that enemies be shown mercy when they surrender. Some frightful portions of the Bible, by contrast, go much further in ordering the total extermination of enemies, of whole families and races - of men, women, and children, and even their livestock, with no quarter granted. One cherished psalm (137) begins with the lovely line, "By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept"; it ends by blessing anyone who would seize Babylon's infants and smash their skulls against the rocks..."

These events are foreshadowed in the book of Deuteronomy, in which God proclaims "I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh" (Deut. 32:42). We then turn to the full orgy of militarism, enslavement, and race war in the Books of Joshua and Judges. Moses himself reputedly authorized this campaign when he told his followers that, once they reached Canaan, they must annihilate all the peoples they find in the cities specially reserved for them (Deut. 20: 16-18).

Joshua, Moses's successor, proves an apt pupil. When he conquers the city of Ai, God commands that he take away the livestock and the loot, while altogether exterminating the inhabitants, and he duly does this (Joshua 8). When he defeats and captures five kings, he murders his prisoners of war, either by hanging or crucifixion. (Joshua 10). Nor is there any suggestion that the Canaanites and their kin were targeted for destruction because they were uniquely evil or treacherous: They happened to be on the wrong land at the wrong time. And Joshua himself was by no means alone. In Judges again, other stories tell of the complete extermination of tribes with the deliberate goal of ending their genetic lines.

By comparison, the Koranic rules of war were, by the standards of their time, quite civilized. Mohammed wanted to win over his enemies, not slaughter them.

Not only do the Israelites in the Bible commit repeated acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing, but they do so under direct divine command. According to the first book of Samuel, God orders King Saul to strike at the Amalekite people, killing every man, woman, and child, and even wiping out their livestock (1 Samuel 15:2-3).

Philip Jenkins teaches at Penn State University. He is the author of "The Lost History of Christianity: The Thousand-Year Golden Age of the Church in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia -- and How It Died."http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/03/08/dark_passages/?page=1

Nicholas - feel free to keep misinterpreting everything and anything I say on here as somehow anti-Christian, there is no room for actual discourse that way, which I am guessing is the way you prefer it. In case you are wondering, the whole point of this post was that ANYTHING can be considered indoctrination, wherever children are concerned. Anything especially stated as the ABSOLUTE TRUTH, IN BLACK AND WHITE, has the distinct potential for being dangerous. Such, to me, is the case of taking the words in ANY religious text LITERALLY, or preaching for others to do the same.

Much more so anyway than our President talking to our kids about the need to study hard and set some freaking goals.

Inna, You take words out of context for your own slanted purposes. St Paul is AD not BC. The New Testament verses the Old Testament. The New Testament is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ on earth.

The reference you gave to worshiping GODSrefers to idols. The 1st Commandant. "And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:1-3)"

St Paul speaks to the teachings found in the New Testament. It is impossible for an atheist to discern meaning from that which they hold in distaste.

No one has called upon children to take up arms or make war against the government in that video. You posted the video to prove Indoctrination. It does not exist.

You think an 8 year old cannot decipher a metaphorical sense as it relates to Jesus.

Therefore an 8 year old cannot identify subliminal political messages either.

Of course Inna, you are always right - can never be wrong - can never see any other viewpoint but your own.

Bonnie - your selective reading of the Gospel and your selective amnesia never cease to amaze me.

You are right - them muslims quoting the Koran are indoctrinated to hate Americans and told to go off and exterminate the infidels. Our good ole' Bible is, of course, infallible, and fabulously peace loving and just.

Anyone who takes the words in any religious text, regardless of whether the Old Testament or the New Bonnie, literally is a freaking NUTCASE. But those who do so selectively are nuts and hypocrites at the same time.

SEP

Regarding Harry Potter, it should be a sin to not know the difference between fantasy and reality.

Tchaka - ditto. On another note, lousy and potentially stolen children's books should also throw one into at least the seventh circle...:-)

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How in the world did I miss this one?? Same cast of characters, same tired old rhetoric and links and different color fonts. I did learn a few things here, like that I will avoid reading anything by Michelle Malkin. I've also learned not to write political posts because I am not a match for some of the name calling and hate filled responses.

Oh, but my dear Susan, you must write political posts... You just must! I can de-flate the unfortunate commenters' egos.:-) I promise to have your back, and I know quite a few others out there, but we must speak, or the insane will be the decision makers, and that scares that living shit out of me.

Inna, I will try my girl. I will try. And I promise to come here and watch your back as well. xxoo

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Bonnie - This is a democracy NOT a theocracy and the fact that you say,

"What makes this particularly difficult is to try to convey Christian beliefs to someone who rejects Christianity."

It is a rejection of the principles of freedom to pursue our religious interests without fear of being criticized by others. This "only one way" is rampant in all religions and it's usually the ones whose extreme rhetoric lead to much harsher actions. This is America, let's live and let live.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled post...

Russell, making the comments you just did about Bonnie's statement is nonsensical - particularly in the context in which Bonnie was commenting, not to mention the particular quote you extracted from her comment.

Intelligent people understand that what she's saying could just as easily be applied to any other concept.

It's particularly difficult to try to convey (communicate, explain) any belief (concept, idea) to someone who rejects that belief, concept, or idea.

To someone who rejects Evolution, it's particularly difficult to explain Evolutionary beliefs, concepts, ideas.

To someone who rejects Anthropogenic Global Warming, it's particularly difficult to explain AGW.

And the list could go on.

It has NOTHING to do with Theocracy, fear of criticism, dogmatism, etc. You left out one key thing in your statement... "it's usually the ones (who proclaim) extreme VIOLENT rhetoric (that) lead to much harsher actions."

That's why, for the most part, those who set themselves up in opposition to Christians do so with little fear of a violent response... they know that for most Christians, even Christian extremists, their "extreme rhetoric" does not include physical violence.

Carry on...

Russell - thank you for trying to reason with Bonnie. It's not easy:-) Even by her own rationale, it's gotta be extremely difficult to explain basic concepts of logic to someone who doesn't understand the concept.

David - preaching to a bunch of 8 year-olds that Governement is the Enemy, and This is WAR - sounds violent, dogmatic and potentially dangerous. If you go through some of the later comments in this post, you will see plenty of Biblical justifications for violence in the extreme. So yes, Christian extremists ought to be feared just like any other extremists. The bible does not make them inherently less dangerous than Muslim extremists. That's all I was trying to explain to Bonnie - apparantly without much success.

Thank you for commenting.

Russel,

I did not introduce the theological comparison to political brain washing. I also did not post to this blog until that video was used as an example of indoctrination and misquoted.

The video was offered for support of the allegation that children are being indoctrinated by Christan's to wage war against the government. That is untrue and a distortion of Christan beliefs.

I fully believe in the right of every American to worship as they see fit. If they chose to be an atheist that's fine. I'm no Evangelist. I do not ascribe to "only one way" or "only one true religion". Spirituality is not something atheists can identify with. The role of the Holy Spirit is an alien concept to them, but powerful to a Christan.

When people chose to distort the meaning of a statement made by a revered and devote Christan like St Paul who sacrificed his life for his religion, I feel compelled to respond.

My response was NOT demeaning or accusatory. It was offered to educate those I believe embrace an atheistic credo. By embracing such beliefs they may have a misunderstanding of Christan beliefs and therefore lend themselves to misinterpretation.

Russel, I did not stand on a soap box. I went clip by clip and responded in detail. I did not excerpt only those words I found to be germane to my position. Nor did I try to force my belief on anyone.

Inna,

in spite of trying to explain to you that the WAR referenced in that video is a spiritual war you are bent on distorting it for your own purposes. It is a war against evil. The weapons are not of flesh and blood.

I understand an atheist does not believe in any power higher than themselves, but we do.

How can you possibly interpet this as children being encouraged to take up arms against the government?

Inna, You're so highly educated tell me how many times a religious army has over thrown a government? Tell me how many times a political faction or army has over thrown a government? Compare the numbers.

What you are trying to spin is untruthful. You wish to ridicule and stifle the very free speech you hold so dear.

Bonnie - you successfully miss or ignore the point of anything I am trying to say. I don't need education in the Bible, contrary to what you believe, I have studied it, as I have other religions and philosophies. I am not interested in perpetuating the discussion with you, as you appear to be incapable of undestanding what I am saying.

Heck, maybe it's the whole English as a Second Language on my end. Mea Culpa...

I think it is impossible for parents to not indoctrinate their children to some degree. That said I do think it is possible to do it in a way that leaves them free to make their own choices later on. A world full of recovering Catholics, recovering Christians, recovering Alcoholics, recovering drug addicts, recovering Muslims, recovering used car salesmen, recovering Democrats, recovering Republicans, recovering agnostics, recovering hopeless romantics----WHATEVER----they all rely on "belief" and are imprisoned by belief. Are our children free to choose their own beliefs as adults, or are they merely mimics----recovering?

Charles, I will answer you from my experience. I am a Catholic. I am a Democrat. My adult son is a Republican and believes in Christianity but has no use for organized religion, I did raise him never to take things at face value and to question that which he doubted.

So much for parental indoctrination. Once our children are out on their own they make their own decisions. IMO until that time every parent has the right to filter that which their child is exposed to.

SEP

Charles - a very valid question you pose. I think that so long as there is plenty of room for questions, and indeed, encouragment to question what the kiddos see, hear and read - then they will indeed be free. At the very least, they'll be closer to autonomous free human beings than if they are simply 'told' things as fact, whether you call it belief or anything else, childre accepting things at face value will probably join the ranks of 'recovering' something or other.

SEP

Inna,

Amazing how "some" didn't get it. My Momma always said if we kids masturbated God would strike us blind ! I'm certain it wasn't something she read in the Bible ! DUH !

Another GREAT post. WOW, you ROCK, girl. The speech on the 8th to our school children has come and gone. How sad the paranoid, fear-mongers kept their kids at home teaching them total Disrespect for The President of the United States of America ! How CRAZY is that. What lunacy ! Yeh, that was pure Indoctrination !!!!!

I see not much has changed around AR except to say that Hugh sounds far more gracious, loving, educated and poised to touch others and reach them for God.

SEP

Linda Mae - thank you, dear lady.

As for AR - not much has changed, indeed. I think it's lost some of its soul, and quite a few passionate people seem to have left this site. Hugh has always been gracious to me, although we will probably never agree on anything:-) There are good people on both sides, I think he is one of them.

Glad you are back!!!:-)

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I'd reply to this but I can't see the keyboard for some reason........

Simon - I would expect nothing less from you.:-)

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Inna.... I am so glad we had that talk at the ActiveRain get together in Orlando......

Along with you showing just how intellectual AND sensitive you are, you continue to amaze me with your insights on oppression and how ANYONE can be sucked down that slippery slope and end up doing what is wrong ~~~ those who are in leadership positions know this very well... be they Democrat, Republican, Independent, Communist, Marxist, OR Christian, OR Muslim....... or in ANY group of people that depend on any form of leadership to function well.

I wish there was an easy answer to all of this...... there will ALWAYS be people who take the right principles of living and twist them to their own ends....... and end up hurting others.

I continue to pray for our governmental leaders...... that when they speak with the Creator with whom we will all have to answer to, they will have a clear conscience when that time comes.

We all reap what we sow in life... lets sow GOOD things, hmm?

I DO realize that in commenting here, I have opened up myself to the hatred of a few here who will more than likely have something to say to try to get under my skin, because of the SO CALLED position I have taken.

With that being said... I do hope everything I have typed was read... and I HOPE it will be taken in the spirit in which it was intended.

(If not...that too we will see.)

=-)

OCT

I love when Bonnie claims to be a Democrat. Yet, every word she writes seems to counter-act that. But what a great argument. I am a Democrat, so I should be able to shred my own party constantly. If she thinks she is a Dem, I would love to know what she thinks a Dem actually is.

OCT

I don't think you really go blind. Truth is, I never really believed it.

OCT

Alex - I can't speak for anyone else here, but I have certainly taken your comment in the spirit in which it was intended, and for that - thank you.

Michael - I would love to see Bonnie's voter registration card. If I were a betting person, I'd bet there are no D's there.:-) Just a hunch, of course.

My Mandy - and how is your eyesight?

OCT

I have a friend who tried it and she says, nope... you don't go blind. Hi Amanda! Hi Inna!

Inna - give me your email address - I'll be glad to send it to you.

HI Mandy, Hi Susan:-)

Bonnie: - here you go: inna.hardison@teamhardison.com

inna - on the way to you.

OCT

Inna: Just catching up on this thread. OMFG. Harry Potter isn't real? He is a warlock and evil and destined to hell? How did everything go so wrong so fast?

OCT

Scott - good point... Hmmm... I guess too many were finding it hard to type and had to resort to having their kids type for them?

Inna: I don't know which is worse. Hairy hands or blindness.

OCT

Is this why so many Realtors wear glasses?

OCT

Scott Smith- LOL

Scott Leaf - thanks for 100th comment:-) As for realtors with glasses - too funny. That and the librarian types... hmmm

OCT

I will make sure my daughter watches whoever is The President when she is old enough to understand what is going on. He/She is our elected leader and what they have to say will impact our childrens lives. I loathed George W. Bush, but I would not keep my children home for fear of hearing the man speak. I would let her watch, and then ask her questions about what she heard. How else can you learn?

Israel - hey man, long time no see. Hope you and your family are well!!!:-)

I am with you on that; as much as I couldn't stand JWB - there is no way it would even occur to me to keep my kids from listening to the man speak to them. And the fear expressed by some was so far in the extreme, it's bordeline paranoia.

Thanks for dropping by. You've been missed in these parts.

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