Bad Home Inspection Info - Electrical

Bruce,

  Thanks for the link, interesting video.

Mike.

You seem to be confusing an AHJ inspection with a home inspection.

Local code inspections are only to bare minimum standards, whereas a home inspection (at least in Illinois, per the state HI law) is to inspect to the current national standards and with regards to best practices.

Totally different things.

Also, bare bulb light fixtures are no longer allowed.  Nationa Fire Safety Association as well as the new Federal standards because the danger of breaking a CFL bulb and mercury contamination.

Around here (City of Chicago) there are even greater standards for smoe electrical issues.  No mini-breakers, all wiring in EMT and no double taps at all (even for SD).

Seems like you want to inspect to the lowest standards.

Granted, Ohio may be behind in adopting the new NEC codes, but that is why Illinois HI law states that we must inspect to the "current national standards", not just what the local AHJs have deemed fit to adopt.

And, yes, we had a big fire.  That is ome of the reaons that Chicago's codes are some of the safest (with regards to fire) in the nation.

You still using Romex out there in the boon docks?

And, we also had all thos porch collapses some years ago.  That is why Chicqago also has some of the most rigid porch and deck codes.

I am not "challanging" you with regards to Ohio's current "rules".  I am, however, challanging you on your ability to do a home inspection (NOT a code inspection, which is very different and has a higher standard) and protecting your client's best interests, especially after you have put yourself out there as such a high and mighty expert.

Hope this helps;

I am also a home inspector who decided to get certifications.  Also a licened electrician, and I can assure you that our testing was more than 100 open book question test.

The state of Ohio, and all its various jurisdictions has already adopted the 2008 NEC?  I think not.

NM is, I agree, OK with the 2008 NEC.  That is provided that it is installed correctly.

In almost all of Northern Illinois, Romex is not allowed.  And, if I see it, I call it out to my clients as a potential code violation problem.  That is my job, to protect my cleint's interests.

While I, personally, agree that Romex is safe, you have to understand that Chicago DID have its big fire, and that is the reason that the City (and its unions) have sought to go the extra mile and require that all wiring be encased in grounded and bonded EMT.  It this a little bit safer?  Yeah, and I am sure that you would agree.  When the wiring is all encased in in grounded metal, less problems.

Mike;

Again, code inspections are not home inspections and visa-versa.

Code inspections are inspections to a bare minimum standard that has bee (in many cases) arbitratrily set by the localAHJ.  They are a bare set of minimun standards that a builder must meet in order to be, legally, able to see the house.

A home inspection is an inspection to the current national construction standards and best practices.

Sure, it is a good idea for an HI to be current on the local codes, expecially when those codes exceed the national standards (which is rare, but does happen, like here in Chicago).  But one must remember that local codes are, in many cases, more a political document than a technical one.

WHat would you do if you ran across a house, built in 1960 and never remodeled, that had no GFCI or AFCI protection?  By "code", it is OK because of grandfathering.  But that does no good to the owner if someone gets seriously hurt or killed.  You, as a government certified employee (which is what code inspectors are) cannot be sued for not calling this out.  Home inspectors can.

I call things out based upon the national standards and best practices, as Illinois law requires.  I have no legal authority.  But I do have liability.  And, my ethical duty is to the best interests of the client, not to law or local codes.

If you believe that I am not qualified, I disagree.  Have you seen some of the electrical courses that NACHI offers?  I know of no other national HI association that does this.  Paul Abernathy is a nationally recognized expert (on the same level as Mike Holt) and he has done many classes and a NACHI.TV cshow in electrical.  I have, personally, worked with him many times.  I would trust him, much more, than anyone who took a 100 question open book test, like you did.

Not saying that you are not qualified.  What I am saying is that you have met a state imposed course and passed a test and the state has put its imprintar on you as an ESI.  Fine.  But that does not meen that you are, somehow, more qualified or better at doing home inspections than a qualified, trained and certified HI.

Different states have different standards and different impositions of state and local codes.  In Illinois, the only state wide code is Plumbing, and even so, Chicago has its own Plumbing code (only real difference is that all supply piping must be copper.  No PVC supply piping.)  And ever municipality over 10,000 population has home rule and sets their own local codes.  I work in 92 different municiaplities and have to be informed on the codes in all of them.  BUT, I do NOT do code inspections.

And, if I find an electrical problem, I recommend evaluation and repair by a licensed and insured electrical contractor.

I know you live in Ohio, and are more aware of the conditions in that state.  Fine.  But your posts seem to imply that you are speaking for the entire country.  This is not true.

So, please keep this in mind when attempting to speak as the expert for the world.

Keep your HI work, and expertise, separate from your plumbing and electrical code qualifications.

Two separate and different jobs with two different standards of practice.

Hope this helps;

Why are you arguing for a lower standard.  You seem to be more concerned with your own ego than the concerns of your clients.

You also posted (previously) "I did not start or participate in that thread."  But it was your post.

I am unsubscribing.  You are an unserious person.

May you be well.

Mike,

    Thank you for taking the time to attend our chapter meeting yesterday. I hope that you were happy with the meeting and we were able to clear up this electrical issue. It was a pleasure to have  Jan Sokonicki from the Division of Industrial Compliance and Labor to answer our questions. What we did find out was this. We are allowed to open up the electrical panels and have a look and site safety concerns IF you are wanting to take that liability to do so. With concerns to the electrical system, we can test the system, and call out electrical safety issues. BUT YOU CAN NOT QUOTE CODE  NUMBERS OR REFERENCE IN YOUR WRITTEN REPORT, And if you do find problems, you write it up, and refer it for further evaluation by a licensed Electrical Inspector. We as Home Inspectors must become uniformed in our contracts and Standards of Practice with the written understanding that we are NOT code inspectors. Please everyone that are reading this, it is up to you where you are wanting to take your liabilities. I hope that this help clear up the electrical issue here in Ohio for our Ohio Home Inspectors. may you all have a great day, and many happy inspections.