Real Estate Blog - Would you tell your buyers not to buy in that neighborhood?

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Would you tell your buyers not to buy in that neighborhood?

How many times have you had buyers that give you a list of some neighborhoods that they would consider to live in?

Have you ever heard of Racial Steering?

This subject is more about the consumer not wanting to go into certain areas but I want to know how agents would handle these situations.

Quite frankly....I haven't heard that term in so long that I thought it might well be extinct by now.

Sometimes a buyer isn't familiar with every neighborhood they want to inquire about and they rely on us to give them as much in detail as we can.

Some people who read this might actually disagree....

For example...A buyer might want to see homes in neighborhood X. Once you show up to see these properties they might notice that they aren't thrilled with the look of the neighborhood or they might not even like the people they see roaming around. This is a true fact. I've actually had buyers in the past tell me that they didn't think it was a safe area just from driving around. I've had buyers tell me that they didn't like the neighborhood because the location was too noisy from all the traffic they could hear on the roads. I've even had people tell me that they didn't like a neighborhood because it was too quiet. "TO QUIET?" That one actually caught me off guard but then I realized that some people might actually like to hear noise just because it made them think the neighborhood felt safer.

I just can't understand why sometimes people ask me questions that put me in an uncomfortable zone. How many of you have been approached with some of these questions?..."What type of people live here?" "I hear there are many forieghners living here" "We want to be with our own kind"......I JUST DON'T GET IT... but I guess its still alive and well out there.....even in the Real Estate industry.

But what about when you get a buyer that asks you what type of people live there? Or what the demographic make up is? How would you handle that? As Realtors®...we have to watch how we interpret that question and how we answer it...just to make sure that we don't inadvertently violate any laws. I would probably direct them to a website like The National Center for Education Statistics .... where they can actually check out school information as well as demographical data.

When a potential buyer calls me and wants to see property... I'll show them whatever they wish to see. That's just me. But I've heard that there are agents out there that still are working in the dark ages. If you ever took a class at your local board...you'll see that they give you sample videos on the do's and dont's.

There are still testers out there who look for this type of stuff.

Be sure you understand the situation at hand. Be aware of it because you care...not because you might get caught saying or doing the wrong thing.

It's still a serious issue going on in the world.

For more information please contact Neal The Real Deal Bloom-Realtor® /Keller Williams Properties

1625 N. Commerce Parkway,Suite 105

Weston FL 33326

(954)608-5556

Posted by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL on 09/19/2009 09:49 AM

Comments (100)

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100 Comments on Would you tell your buyers not to buy in that neighborhood?

SEP

Hi, this is a great topic to contemplate, and right now as we have a listing in a neighborhood that is referred to as "renewing" I've been thinking about it a lot. It's a great house and better than the other homes in the area, so we priced it higher...but seems people are not looking at homes in that neighborhood at that price. Luckily the Seller knew we would be reduing the price if there was not enough action in terms of visits, but it really points out how there can be a natural lid on the prices dictated by the area itself. Don't you feel it's part of our job to point out these factors to our Buyers? If they spend $300,000, and have a choice of neighborhoods where appreciation is differing, shouldn't they be aware of those figures too?

I really myself have chosen to live in a "renewing" neighborhood to redo a home that I could never have afforded in a high end neighborhood, and I love the idea of creating value and beauty and solid community in a neighborhood that might have been neglected, so I really have and support those values. On the other hand it seems clear that as a Buyer's agent it's our job to inform our Buyer of the facts. We just have to be careful to tell them nothing subjective. Appreciation or median property value is a fact, (as are crime rate statistics and demographics) whereas "this isn't a very good neighborhood" is clearly a subjective perception.

Neal, this is pretty simple. Steering is illegal. Demographic info is available for them to make their own conclusions.

Point them in the direction of the experts who ca answer THOSE questions. These should be OFF limits to ALL realtors.

Neal - I, too, often get these questions, especially from folks who are not from the area. I give them websites where they can get the information they seek about demographics, and tell them to spend time in the area to gain a feel for the community so they can decide for themselves whether it will work or not.

Jeff

I think you can broach the subject in a manner that is not discriminatory or to be considered steering. Often times we have clients who are looking for vacation or second homes down here in the Phoenix area. They see cheap prices on homes and inquire, "is this a nice neighborhood". Often I will give them links to sites where they can look up crime statistics and other information. However, sometimes I will answer with a simple, "this may not be an area you would want to vacation in." I don't think there's anything wrong with advising a client to avoid a high crime, dangerous area. I think they respect you for that. I've never encountered anyone asking me what type of people live in a certain area though. Very provactive post and best of luck to you.

Oh man. I can imaging being very uncomfortable with those types of questions. Are your client's really that uneducated and shallow?

But I guess although it is unfortunate stereo types exist for a reason.....

I almost left a Buyer at a vacant house after he made a slanderous racist comment. His wife realized he had upset me and she made him apologise. Bigotry and racism are alive and well in our country and in our industry.

Demographic information abounds. You can always quote Fair Housing rules that prohibit you from answering what they might perceive as simple questions.

I feel more compromised that I cannot comment on crime issues because that might become steering. I always tell them to check crime statistics but feel my hands are tied to even speak about higher crime areas . . .

Neal: Home buyers and home sellers have a right to their thoughts and opinions. Realtors do as well. The only difference is that we are Fair Housing and Anti- Discrimination. I live and work in a multi-cultural melting pot. If we have neighborhoods that are not “mixed” I don’t know where they are … and I am a native to my community! I had a seller once tell me he would not sell to a [blank]. He went on to say I will sell to a [blank] and a [blank] and a [blank] is ok but not a [blank]. I told that seller, whom I have also known for 40 years, don’t tell me that because I won’t be your agent if you require me to discriminate. Yeah … it’s out there alright!!!!

I show them what they ask for. If they want demographic information I point them to online resourses. If they want to know about school districts I only comment on personal experiene with my children but say other school information is all available online. Now if they have done their homework and say they do not want that neighborhood or that school district that's fine, they did the homework and they came up with their own personal reasons. I show them what they now want. Have I been asked these questions over and over, you bet!

I don't see color. I am color blind, and I don't see race either, that's the way I was taught (not to mention my consideration for other protected classes as well).

With the internet, most buyers can get the info they are looking for fairly easily. They don't need to ask me, in fact, many buyers know it is illegal for me to respond. So why are they asking? Hmmm?

I sell houses, home-ownership...the dream. Period. Stick to that, and I do fine.

Please Mr. Buyer...please don't ask me about the racial makeup of the neighborhood or other such questions, you will regret that you asked. You don't want to hear what I have to say to you. Trust me.

Neal, it is important for all of us to have the appropriate response to buyers who persist in asking REALTORS to recommend neighborhoods. We do not want to inadvertently be guilty of steering buyers to or away from certain neighborhoods.

Steering is illegal and just plain nor right! Fair Housing advises us to say something like the following:

"If buyers persist in asking questions that could result in a charge of steering against you, be polite but firm in responding: "I'm sorry, but I can't provide that information. Fair housing laws prevent me from steering people away from or toward a certain neighborhood based on race, color, or other protected categories."

In other words, as your REALTOR, I may not discriminate for any reason. Period!

Dowler beat me to it...

Neal - I can't comment on what you guys and gals do for a living, because that's not my area... or expertise. I will comment on the philosophy of all this, though. Most folks who are well off in the financial realm want to live where they want to live. Conversely, those who can't afford a twinkie, are stuck. Either live here or there or on the streets.

When I first came to Allentown, I was 24 years old and had $10,000 in the bank. My first abode was on 7th Street, right downtown. Little did I know that it was considered a part of the ghetto around these parts. I left many late nights/mornings to go down to the local store to grab a bite to eat. My upstairs neighbor, who was from the Bronx, told me to never do that again. I continued to do it each time I was hungry and needed a bite to eat. I never hurt nobody.

I won't use swear words on your post out of respect, but criminy crimey, this very philosophy among us is downright wrong and immature. It doesn't seem that many people want to be placed in a crime-ridden neighborhood. I can understand that and the demographics behind it. But let's use another example, putting an Italian/German American like me in the ghetto. Who's to say that I'm not there to rape and pillage them all over again.

Race Wars are the most appropriate example of us being stupid!

Anyone here who believes in a God should know that I'm quite certain that God created everything around us. With that premise, God probably created the very people who look different than you. The racial thing has never made a lick of a sense to me.

As I believe it, I think you are doing the right thing, Neal.

I've had buyers ask if certain "types of people" live in a neighborhood. Some point blank say they do not want to buy a home near (take your pick). I respond by saying I cannot address those concerns because it's against the law and follow up by saying that Time magazine in 2006 named Sacramento the most multi-culturally diverse city in America. Then, I leave it at that.

Most people know when they are being racist. Some don't care. But few realize that we as agents are prohibted from answering those types of questions. You've got to ask yourself if you really want to work with those kinds of people, anyway. I don't like bigots or racists, so that solves my problem. I refer them out.

Uh...what Dan said. I lost a potential client about 3 weeks ago due to my answer to the question. Am I losing any sleep about a lost potential sale? Absolutely not.

Neal- Steering is wrong, it is illegal and we don't practise steering. However, what is considered steering and what is considered protecting your client can sometimes seem to be taken the wrong way. When we worked with buyers we would guide them to the Sheriff's department and the crime statistics. There are high crime areas in all racial makeup geo areas. But should you put a single lady in a neighborhood where you know for sure that they rape women in order to be accepted into their gangs? It does not matter the color of the skin. Rape is rape and they don't care what color of person you rape. You just have to rape a woman. Of course because the way the laws are written all we can do is point her to the crime stats on the sheriff's website. And can she sue you as the agent for not protecting her because you were afraid of steering laws and she ends up being raped and you did not tell her the gang that does this is right next to her house? I sometimes ponder how a judge would see cases like this.

We have a lot of Jewish people who live and buy in our neighborhood. Most of them when looking for a home if they are orthodox will tell you that they have to live within walking distance to their synagogue. This is where I think these laws go too far in the extreme. Why do I have to show this buyer homes all over the town when I know darn well where their synagogue is and can show them the exact neighborhoods where they can walk to their services on the Sabbath. They think it is ridiculous too. As you are showing them a house, your client asks you,"can I walk to the synagogue from here?" and you say, " Sorry, I can not discuss religious buildings with you. You will have to walk the steps yourself and see if this house is where you need it to be." To them, this practise in itself sounds discriminatory in reverse.

I have showed many Haitians and Jamaican homes and the first thing out of their mouths is; 'don't show me homes in American black neighborhoods'. I would tell them, "I will show you homes in all neighborhoods you are qualified for and then you choose the home you want to buy. I can not discriminate even when you are black too":) They then laugh and we go and find a home that is perfect.

We are a wonderful melting pot of so many different races, interracial and cultures in South Florida. That is one of the greatest reasons to live here. You get to learn so much from so many different people and cultures. Katerina

Neal - I get this a lot because when my clients ask their Realtors and the Realtors don't give them the answer they wanted tp hear they call and ask me because they think I will. It's hard too because quite often, my clients and I get along so well we actually start to become friends during their home search.

Even though I am not a Realtor, I am a licensed agent with the DRE and I let my clients know that I am bound by the same rules, regulations and code of ethics as their Realtor. When they ask about the crime in a particular area, I advise them to check out the police blotter for the area. When they ask about schools, I direct them to the local school district website. When they ask about demographics, I direct them to the city website that has that info.

It's really tough when a client asks me about the areas because with some areas that they ask about, they do need to know what kind of area it is. Most of the time, when I advise the client to check the police blotter for the area they will and then the decision is in their hands.

I have had this happen to me as recently as last month when I received an email inquiry through our website where they stated they wanted to be in a neighborhood with no ___________'s. You can fill in the blank, because it doesn't matter...I refuse to work with people who ask those kind of questions. There is enough demographic information on the internet that if they are really that concerned about who their neighbors are they could have researched it without needing me to "guide" them to their utopia! I encountered a tester when I was very new in the business and I handled him very well, because I know the rules and more importantly, I know my own personal values and morals. Very good post and a topic that we should all be aware of how to handle!

Wow...this turned out to be an excellent discussion. I appreciate the responses. I think this is a very important issue that seemed to be swept under the rug. I'm glad that everyone is aware of it. Keep them coming....

Neal - I just wanted to relay an experience that a Realtor partner told me about. He had a client who made an offer on a property and then they asked about the crime in a certain area. The Realtor indicated that it's a nice and highly sought after area (it really is) but if they want to know the crime statistics for the area then they should check the police blotter for the area and he gave them the link to the website.

This is a young couple looking to start a family. In checking the info for the area, they discovered a sex offender directly across the street. They canceled their offer and told their Realtor why. When the LA asked why and was told why, the LA was a little put off by it and started criticizing the BA for letting his clients do that. SERIOUSLY?

As a professional, the BA did his job without steering and his clients made their decision based on what they found to be a deal breaker for them. THAT'S THEIR RIGHT AND PRIVILEGE!

Would you tell your buyers not to buy in that neighborhood?

I did that once, just recently in fact. Actually I advised them against a certain 3 block radius because of the proximity to a prison. Resale would be horrible for them, and I pointed out just how long nice, well priced homes had been on the market in that radius compared to other similar homes.

I almost kept my mouth shut because of that inner fear about speaking on neighborhooods, but then I realized that this is why they hired me. To look out for them, not only now, but in the future as far as resale value.

What a great topic. I do believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I've never been presented with a situation where I had to comment on "what kind of people live there?" . However I have been asked by clients how they neighborhood is - to that i provide a few city of Ottawa sites about demographics and local crime however if I do know a little about that community I feel obligated to share my information. I don't think I could live with myself if I sold a home to a naive family who didn't do their own research on a neighborhood and just bought the house at the price they liked.

Everyone will have a variety of comments on this blog since it gets down to who you are as person - not just as a Realtor. Awesome topic!

Obviously these are questions asked and we have to mind the law when giving our answers. Most buyers know where they want to live and for others that aren't sure, I always recommend they drive thru the different areas at different times of the day/week so they can make a decision based on what they see for themselves. Put the ball in their court. I refer buyers to a local news website that gives crime stats for any address you put in. This is a big help since most buyers would like to be in an area where crime is not rampant.

I've had to point blank tell someone that I cannot answer that question as it is a violation of the law and my strict code of ethics. I have lost a few buyers and even a seller because of it but hey, at least I sleep better at night!

I always tell people to drive niehgborhoods at different times of the day to see the different activity. If you always drive through on the way homr from work, you always see the same thing. Drive by in the mornings and the weekends too. The streets tell a huge story!

I get asked the same questions all the time. I always answer the same. They can go to my website and search demographics, school reports, etc for any zip code they choose. I've yet to lose a client over it. Just direct them where they need to go to find those kind of answers.

I tell people if they want to really know the neighborhood, go shopping at the local supermarket on Saturday afternoon . . . those are the neighbors!

Nestor & Katerina, I am laughing at your comment because it is so true.

One thing being a Realtor has taught me is that almost everyone is trying to profile when they are buying a home, and my job is not to get involved with it. Being obviously a Black person, I was shocked when I started selling real estate how many people would openly try to pull discriminatory info from me. Why would they think I would get involved in that -- those laws were put into place primarily so that practices against Blacks would stop! In my neighborhood, we are the ONLY Black family, and I know plenty of folks in our neighborhood would not sell a home to us if they had a choice. I simply cannot stand the attitude that certain people belong in certain places.

Here, the primary discrimination is against Mexicans, but I can't tell you how many times I've had Mexicans tell me they don't want to live by Mexicans! It floors me! I once had a woman, in very broken English, ask me if "real Americans" lived in that neighborhood! Huh? Since I didn't think I could properly convey to her that I found the question offensive, I just acted as if I didn't understand what she meant.

BTW -- as far as discrimination is concerned, I find the worst situations are when a listing agent lives in the neighborhood or block where they have a listing, they almost always try to discriminate in my experience. Some want to be present at all showings or just plain ask inappropriate questions when you present an offer. Once I had an agent who wanted to be present at showings, and I had a white couple I was showing the home and he was all smiles. Later that same day, I showed the same home to a Mexican family, and his whole demeanor was changed. Luckily for him, they thought the house was a hunk of junk (which it was). LOL.

Tni LeBlanc
tni@mintprop.com

I know the question still comes up from time to time. I tell buyers if they want information to check on-line... and then go to the various areas they are interested in and drive around and see if they like the area... other than that, I don't get into anything which would be prohibited... as for safety issue, I tell them to call the police department.. schools... lots of links on our website to school information in our state... and then let them decide what fits with their wants and needs.

I've been asked some questions that, had I answered them, could have violated the laws that govern us. So I always tell people that I'm not allowed to discuss the makeup of an area, but I understand their concerns. After all, I'm one of those Yankees who moved to the South! Fortunately, I've never had anyone persist when they're firmly but pleasantly refused an answer.

I actually get comments from buyers often. I'm amazed people still think color, blood type, hairstyle, smell or whatever matters. I have come to the point after 10 years of smiling, and commenting that "Fair Housing doesn't allow me to disclose that information. I'll hand them a website site and I always provide every home in their search of MLS. They have the power to choose, not me!

This has been pretty interesting even for me since I moved to south Florida. Being a Jewish man from NY it was definitely a bit of a challenge for me to get used to working with people who tend to talk in different languages in front of me...it was almost rude because they could be talking about me without me ever knowing what they're saying. When I moved here...the area I live in was wasn't considered to an area with many people of the Jewish faith. It was also tough to understand why many Latin homeowners were listing properties with latin Realtors even though most of them didn't have the best knowledge in RE. Maybe it was a coincidence or maybe it wasn't. It took me a while to get used to the change and even finding people of the same faith of mine was hard to find.

Although my wife is more religious then I am.....I personally am not very religious...yet I respect her and she respects me....I just happen to have grown up in a different environment than she did. My neighborhood was totally mixed of all races and religions as it should be so I can only go by what I was taught and that was to treat everyone the same no matter if the person was considered a complete ass...that's not a race of religion...that's just being an ass.

Believe it or not ...one time I was asked the question.."what type of people live here?" I gave sort of a wise crack remark...I said...."people that are a live"" They kind of looked at me very funny as if they didn't appreciate the answer. I then directed them to the demo-graphical website as well as the police department to see the crime rates if that's what they were inquiring on. Sometimes even the consumer isn't aware of what they are saying.

And I definitely don't like when I have to bring up fair housing issues but I see why they are still an issue.

Sad to say that racism is alive and well in America and probably in every other part of the world. In buying a home, it is mostly related to fear. But it is just one of many fears that persons have in buying. Does the home have structural damage that the owner is covering up? Are they moving because the neighborhood is getting worse? Will the lender charge me fees that he is not telling me about? Why are there so many homes for sale in the area? Our job as realtors is to ease those fears as much as possible.

Regarding race or ethnicity, I explain in a matter of fact approach that it is illegal for me to steer into or out of certain neighborhoods - I can't do it and I won't do it.

Neal- Jewish people have been discriminated against for thousands of years as you obviously know from being Jewish. No other race of people have been slaves longer than Jews, killed more than Jews and anti- semitism is alive and well in this country and the world. I have a passion for this subject. I lived in Germany for 4 years. My mother made sure she took us kids to see the old camps, the museums, the memorials and she told us the stories as we could hear the trains drive by. I never liked trains after those stories.

We have a Catholic church, an LDS (Mormon) church and a Jewish Temple Beth Torah all right next to each other. We all get along and if someone sees any of those buildings and chooses NOT to live in our neighborhood- that is up to them- but we won't be a party to it.

Tni- Thanks for confirming my story:) Yeah, we get the Latin one too. Columbians and Venezuelans don't want to live next to Mexicans and Guatamalans. We don't see it much around here from white people. I think most of the white people live in interacial relationships or have married into other cultures and nationalities here. I have a half Jamaican grandson and a half Haitian granddaughter. We are all ONE HUMAN FAMILY.

My kids as they were growing up would always answer on those race question forms- HUMAN RACE. Katerina

Just a few months after I got my license, I was driving a buyer through neighborhoods and the husband asked me about the racial makeup of the neighborhood. I told him that I could not answer his question because of the fair housing laws.

I never asume what my clients want and show them whatever they want to see. If they don't like houses in whatever neighborhood I show them houses on another neighborhood.

It's steering to say the least...when giving 'opinions' about neighborhoods, people etc. Bottom line...the client has to live in the house, the neighborhood etc and they need to come to that conclusion on their own. Best bet....have them drive around the neighhborhoods during peak hour times (when people are home from work...weekends) and see if they like the neighborhood, the 'quiet', the 'noise' and even their neighbors.

Fair Housing Laws...review if they don't know.

How many of you have been approached with some of these questions?..."What type of people live here?"

I heard this just this past week for the first time in years but I did direct them to some websites that give the demographics for the area.

I had a situation on the flip side. I was early for a townhome showing, and the elderly neighbor saw me open the garage door. He came over to bring in the trash cans.

When my buyers drove up (who are very dark skinned), the old guy looked at me and said, "I sure hope they don't buy it. I wouldn't like that." I couldn't believe my ears! Yes, this kind of idiocy is indeed alive and well...and will hopefully die off in time.

Never had a problem with this one in 20 years. I have always told them to drive the neighborhood to see if they like it, and I have done a CMA to show if the prices are holding, going up, or going down. They can take it from there.

I had some clients that asked such a question and I answered in a different way. I told them that I would not buy here because the property that backed up to the one they were considering was owned by a major developer. I said that it was zoned industrial and that they could end up with a factory in their back yard. I wasn't far from wrong. 3 years later it was a Sprint call center with a huge parking lot. Is that steering? I don't think so.

Have a system in place to qualify buyers. Always ask the same questions. Based on their answers provide them with a list of homes that meet their criteria, and let them pick the ones they wish to view.

In our state, most can draw their own conclusions just by driving around a neighborhood or "visiting on a Friday or Sat night around 9 PM. Besides, the gang tagging is a dead giveaway.

I have not run into this, that only thing that I usually hear comments about is the school system.

I a person tells me they want to be in a specific area I believe I can do a search for them if they are speaking geographically and do not add "because there are, or are not, any _______ there" The blank being a protected class. If homes come up on searches and the buyers ask me questions about the neighborhood that I cannot answer, I suggest that they drive through the area to see if it meets their needs and requirements. People do have the right to buy where they want, for good or bad reasons. It is their money. We, however, do not have the right to steer them into those areas, even if it would be a plus in the long run. If you do try to help them do it, be aware that the person you are dealing with may very well be from your state's real estate commission. Surprise!!! HUD will also like to speak with you. Talk about massive fines!

If a buyer tells me they do not want to be in an area because a protected class lives there, I tell that buyer that I am sorry, but I cannot assist them. I do it very politely, but want nothing to do with that type of attitude so blatantly expressed. I also do this for some classes that are not yet protected by federal law, but should be. Do be aware that local city, county, or state law has other protected classes, and woe be the agent that does not know what the laws are in the area where he is showing property.

PS I do the same for sellers that start down the road of "I do not want to sell my home to any _______". I have better things to do and people to deal with than bigots, racists, etc. There are so many nice people out there and I prefer to serve them.

I tell my clients this.....it doesn't matter where you live, you can not control who or who does not live there, and there are good and bad people in every nationality, but I am not one to judge this for them or me and if I hear questions that go in that direction, I nip them in the bud. It is sad that we have so many "so called" Christians, but yet they still think it is their job to judge and place themselves higher than others. Loved the post.

Neal, Another reason why I am so happy I rarely show property. It's my opinion that people have a right to live where they want to live. In fact that's exactly why we have fair housing laws in the first place. Send them to Citi Data and let them do their own homework. I won't be helping them decide what's a good neighborhood and what's a bad neighborhood. That's not my job.

I have a passion for fair housing, in fact, I am hoping to eventually teach a CE course on the subject. It is simple. If it (the questions) relates to the people living in the area, the subject is off limits to us. Don't be afraid to say "I can't answer that question" because - you can't. Send them to the local police station for answers on crime or to the local Chamber of Commerce, give them the local news paper, websites to peruse on their own and a map of the neighborhoods with homes in their price range and let them decide but don't even think of how to answer those questions because you can't. Site the law, offer the alternatives mentioned above and DROP the subject so you are not tempted to "give just a little bit" of information. Even saying that it is a neighborhood with lots of kids is forbidden!!! Let the buyers figure that out (swingsets, kids toys, etc in the yard). If they want to know if there are kids tell them to knock on doors and ask for themselves.

This subject should be so simple but it is made so difficult because many agents forget that they are there to sell PROPERTY not lifestyles, not people, not anything other than the property itself. We know the protected classes and if we don't we should NOT be in this business. Describe the property to be sold and not the people buying, selling or surrounding it and you should be fine.

Say, "Great jogging paths" and not "great for joggers". That suggests people.

Interesting discussion. We don't have a specific ethical issue related to steering, but, of course, it does arise from tie to time.

Great post Neal. I cite fair housing laws back to consumers and most apologize, not realizing they were infringing on the law. While I have been fortunate to not have an overt violator, as I would drop them like a hot potato as a client, I know it exists out there. I've heard the stories.

I agree with most of the comments above.

"Hey if this area/neighborhood is of interest check around, drive around and go online to satisfy your interest"

Patricia

This is very interesting. I rememeber asking an agent that question not that I cared about the skin color but I wanted to know if they believe this was a good area for singles since I was single at the time, and wanted to live where the action was!

Isn't it possible aside from the race thing people want to live with other families or singles want to live next to other young professionals?

Gotta love city-data.com for demographic research. You can point your customers to it to perform their own research. And, in Illinois we have an awesome school report card web site that gives all the info on each district. To echo others, I also tell buyers to drive by their target house at various times during the day to get the best feel for the neighborhood and to contact the local police department.

Neal, life really is too short for this kind of thing, isn't it? Will it never end? If I am asked a quesiton like that, I simply tell them it's against the law for me to answer it. I once had a man in my car with his wife and 2 children. He kept using a very offensive racial slur. I asked him to please not use that word in my car. He used it again. I asked to nicely, again, not to use that word in my car. He used it again. I pulled over. I told him that if he didn't have enough respect for me to refrain from using that word, could he please have enough respect not to use the word in front of his wife and kids. I went on to say that if he said it again, the tour was over. I was a pretty new and hungry agent at the time, but I have always hated that kind of talk and you have to draw the line. We spent another hour or so in a very hostile and uncomfortable car. I never heard from them again, big surprise. But it was no loss to me.

There's only one thing we can discriminate about and that's the color of money. No GREEN, no sale.

I've had this come up and told people that I can't answer it based on laws. I do advise people that they carefully check out the area they are considering buying in by checking with the police, schools, etc. to be certain it meets their needs.

I hate all kinds of discrimination. Call me a bleeding heart, but I won't have any part of it. I've actually had an elderly sellers ask me "Well what if a ...Muslim...wants to buy my house. I don't think I could stand it." I told her that Muslim money is just as good as any other money, and that such comments were a violation of fair housing laws and that I wouldn't represent her if she was asking me to discriminate. Shut her up real quick. But it's sad that we still have to think about all this stuff.

Unofrtuantely demographics are very rarely up to date for a specific subdivision. Even if they were most of metro Detroit neighborhoods are ethnically and culturally diverse. You can't steer but you can point them in the direction of crime statistics.

I refer them to www.bestplaces.net that gives the demographic make up.

I have never been asked that question, but I am a newbie. I know I would feel uncomfortable if I was asked that question. I don't want to turn my client off by saying, "Your question is a steering question for me and highly illegal for me to answer" but I guess telling them to visit a site is a better way of putting off the question and getting yourself off the hook!

What's hard about it is that they want information, and you have information and cannot give it to them. You can't tell them what you know about what you have even read in the newspaper regarding crime, gang activity, etc. I can understand why the Fair Housing rules exist . . . I know there have been abuses and discrimination and steering and redlining and the rest of it . . . it is just difficult to manage in the moment, especially if you are an open person and are trying to be helpful (talking specifically about crime here). If someone is coming from another area, they would have no idea where the high crime areas might be. You know full well but can't tell them - you can only refer them to do their own research, which takes time and effort. I get it but it is awkward in the moment because you have to gag yourself and do robot-speak . . . "Fair Housing Laws Prohibit Me From Answering Your Question."

SEP

Great post! I too have experienced this about 5 yrs ago and then about 6 months ago. I felt I was being tested and had to react the right way that everyone should. 6 months ago was the test one. After driving these folks all over, they finally told me and complimented my well mannered by the book attitude. I was taken to dinner and they actually liked me so much that they are now really buying. They told me that I impressed them about the area and wanted to see me prosper.

My answer to that question is - 'Mr. Buyer it is not a matter of what I think of the neighborhood, it is what you think. May I suggest you contact the local school board (and supply a website) or the local police station, or drive back there yourself and see for yourself.'

My son-in-law is a weekend tester for a local hosing authority, So, I know it is still being looked at.

We have all experienced these types of questions. Be professional and courteous at all times. Point them in the direction where they can find the information. Enough said

We have been just recently "tested" and passed with flying colors.

Our standard answer is " We can not make a distinction of good and bad neighborhood. .our license is in peril and I hope you understand that"

"Be the source of the source..not the source."

Citidata is a good site, so is the one you mentioned Neal. When asked those types of questions, the ambiquity of what defines a Good neighborhood from a bad one is just one of many reasons to suggest to your customer the value of reseaching on the Interent for themselves. Only they in the end can make that decision of where they want to live.

Boy I tell you ...I didn't think this was still as wide spread as it sounds but hey...this is the type of world we live in. When I was selling RE in the mid 90's back in NY...I saw this on a few occasions because I worked with a mix of both buyers and sellers. Now most of my clients are sellers so I rarely see it but even if you work with sellers...it could come up on the selling side in a different way...there "could be a seller that simply would rather not sell to a certain type of person....in this market you might see it less if they really need to sell but I bet some still have that thought in the back of their mind but yes it's highly unlikely to see it on the selling side more than on a buyers side.

You always wonder if a tester is really your client...that was interesting to hear that some of you actually had testers.

Very interesting points all brought up here...great discussion. I'm probably not going to be able to answer each individual people but I did read all the comments... Citi Data is a good site but I also think the site I posted has some good info to look at.

As a visible minority myself I think this "steering" is silly but I can see how it happens. I simply give them the crime stats for the area, and the areas with the highest crime stats are usually not where they would have thought! Hmmmm.

I get asked what type of neighborhood is this? I also get asked how are the schools here?

I just tell them where to go to do their own research, that I am not allowed by Fair Housing Laws to discuss this. So far they all understand.

Not worth risking my license to say anything that might even resemble steering.

Neal - I have come across many situations where I knew neighborhoods simply were not safe to be in. I NEVER tell the buyer anything ! I do subtle things like :

Upon entering the neighborhood I click my door locks to the lock position ( even though they lock automatically upon entering the vehicle.
I always bring a male Realtor with me from my office

When asked about the neighborhood, schools, crime etc. My answer is always the same :

"Fair Housing does not allow me to speak on these issues. However, crime reports, school information etc is a matter of public record " I then direct them to websites or facilities that can better help them.

Some understand, some do not. Some believe it's our job to inform them of everything regardless of the law. In this case I always tell the potential buyer to do a drive by at various times in the day including after work/school hours.

If I'm working with a buyer who is unfamiliar with an area, I take them through a once-around-the-town tour so they can point out the neighborhoods that appeal to them. Then, we focus our search to those locations. If the look of the homes and upkeep meet with their approval, they notice who is living there. That's a decision I want them to make, not me. And like others here, I too tell them to check into school information, crime statistics.

I always cringe when this quesion has come up. Only a few times, thank goodness. I have always stated that they will have to make hat detrmination for themselves through observation and research as I am prohibited from engaging in such conversations due to the Fair ousing Laws. I think many people do not understand the bigger implications of such a question.

Neal, that's a great post! I was just called the other day about a property and asked a question about the safety of the neighborhood and I told the agent I didn't know and couldn't answer that question anyway. It's a fine line we have to walk when answering questions like that.

Excellent post and comments.

Something that has not been mentioned is age. I work in Chicago and when showing units in a high rise building I often get asked the age of owners. This usually happens when elderly owners might be sitting in the lobby or coming and going with walkers and wheel chairs. I state the Fair Housing Laws and suggest they visit the building at various times and days.

Most of my buyers know what neighborhoods interest them and I usually send them listings so they can choose what they would like to see. I do not work all areas of Chicago and if someone requests an area I do not work in I will usually refer them to an agent that does.

Most buyers do not realize you cannot answer questions relating to crime and schools. They believe you are working for them and have their best interests in mind...which we do. If they question my response, I usually just tell them I could lose my license and livlihood for ignoring the law. One thing I will say is that I have been selling real estate in Chicago for 20 years and I have never had anyone bring up race as an issue. Crime and the elderly are the primary issues I find.

Neal - You've presented this topic excellently. I once had a landlord describe what type of person she did not want to rent to. I didn't bother going further. I just terminated my agreement with her.

What I am really curious about is when we as agents decide to move, are we steering ourselves into certain neighborhoods? We know more about most additions and areas that consumers from the mere fact we show and list and drive around our towns and cities almost daily and we have undoubtedly thought about where we would like our next home to be.

Oh I probably am putting too much thought into this but we are privy to more info than most and it does influence our decision for ourselves yet if we were to use that same influence on a buyer, then more than likely we would be violating a very important and necessary law.

Well, excellent topic for discussion. I for one have enjoyed reading the comments and appreciate them.

It was my first or second week as an active Realtor and the phone rang.

They were looking for a rental. We spoke of the obvious topics, size/price etc.

Then the caller mentioned to me that this potential home had to be in a "white" neighborhood.

Without a pause I told him that all the homes in the area are a beige color.

Needless to say we didn't go out looking at houses.

I never refer to the racial make up of an area. I do tell people of crime issues in an area. In fact I think we have an obligation to disclose this information.

I one time had a client looking for low end homes tell me a neighborhood looked "too working class." I pointed out to her what she need to watch out for was the "non-working class." This was her code word for Blacks and Mexicans. This was my way of saying that the people in this area are hard working people in a neighborhood they could afford and I really don't see anything wrong with hard working people.

Neal - It amazes me that there are still people out there like this, but I know there are. Fortunately for me, I have never had a client ask me any questions like that.

Yes there are still agents who do this, I am sure. When someone on the phone asks me about a neighborhood or what it is like, I recommend they do a drive by themselves, to see if they like the area.

Well, first of all, I see nothing at all wrong with the buyers wanting to know those things. I see nothing wrong with people wanting to live in a neighborhood of people "like them." I don't see that as bigoted or "shallow" in the least. Why live where you feel uncomfortable, or even where you have nothing at all in common with the other residents?

If I had a young family I'd want to be with other young families who had values somewhat similar to mine. If I was single I might want to be near other singles. It's a matter of surrounding yourself with potential friends.

To answer Russel, why wouldn't an agent steer himself or herself to a neighborhood that was pleasing? I think we sometimes go a little too far in an effort not to discriminate.

But the question is, what can YOU as an agent tell them? I think you're doing the absolutely right thing by directing them to websites where they can learn from themselves. I also used to encourage people to drive around the neighborhood at different times of day. Perhaps even stop and visit with a neighbor or two. I would also tell them to check the websites that locate registered sex offenders.

When I was still selling, sex offender information was only available for a fee. It only cost $5, but the names of everyone who inquired were there for the sex offender to see. No one wanted to do that. After I quit selling I had a friend who was trying to buy a house and the acceptance was delayed because the man became ill. Luckily she took that time to check the sex offender website and learned that had she purchased the house, she would have had a child molester living next door - and she had a beautiful 8 year old daughter.

I see nothing wrong with telling a buyer that real estate law does not allow you to divulge that information - and then suggesting the ways that they can get it for themselves.

By the way, I think I was "tested" once too. I never found out for sure, but it sure felt that way, and the "buyers" were never seen in town again.

When a client asks me about a neighborhood, I do not necessarily assume that their question involves Fair Housing issues. Lots of neighborhood information can be discussed without getting into protected class issues.

Issues related to the age of the neighborhood such as particular builder(s), construction methods including type of electrical wiring, type of heating & cooling systems, type of exterior siding, presence of popcorn ceilings, typical ceiling height, typical floor plan, etc.
General information such as neighborhood school assignments, proximity of public transportation, presence or lack of an HOA, nearby amenities, etc.
Information related to property values such as percent of rental properties versus owner occupied, average days on market, general appearance of neighborhood, per cent of homes that have been renovated since they were built, tax value changes over recent years, number of foreclosures in neighborhood, etc.

If asked about demographic information, I refer them to a link on my website to http://www.zipskinny.com which gives census information by zip code including education and income stats. If necessary, I will explain to a client that any discussion of their question would put me in violation of Federal Fair Housing Guidelines. I am fortunate to work in the greater Austin area that is very diverse so Fair Housing type issues seldom come up.

I seldom--- if ever, show a home unless the Buyer drives the area first themselves to avoid any inquiries into "racial" make-up or other issue which are not my ethical or legal place to discuss. Period. To do otherwise in neighborhoods that you may not live in yourself is opening up a Pandora's Box. Don't ever second guess someone's value system.

Why put yourself in this position when you can easily avoid it?

I don't think we should blame buyers for asking these questions. Many people want to live in a community with other people like themselves. I get the questions often and refer them to several websites to research schools, demographics, and crime and advise them to spend some time visiting the neighborhoods themselves.

What a Pandora's box you opened up. But, really, as has been stated, it is pretty simple. Buyers have to familiarize themselves with which neighborhoods they want to live in by seeing the neighborhoods and checking what sites they want to check online. After which, they can tell me where they want to look for homes. That way, I am not steering them to or away from a neighborhood.

I don't tell my buyers what neighborhoods to buy in. I find out if they want to move within a certain number of miles from work or school or church...whatever is important to them. I then set up either an automated radius search or draw an automated map search and we go look at houses that meet all their criteria, # of rooms, price, distance from what ever place is important to them. I let them make their own decision that they don't like this street because of bars on all the windows or that street because cars are parked all over, etc. I will then alter the search based on what the client tells me when we go on tour. Most of the time the clients will talk to neighbors of the house they are considering putting an offer on. I find that neighbors usually are very happy to share their knowledge of the neighborhood, especially those curious neighbors that are conveniently hanging around outside while you're showing the house.

I am currently working with a buyer who wants to move here from a foreign country. I have yet to meet her face-to-face, and the language barrier is creating some challenges, but she has made it clear that she wants to live in a "nice" neighborhood. Since she has limited knowledge of the local area and obviously cannot drive it herself, I have found Google Maps to be helpful. She can just type in a home's address to get an aerial view, and in some cases, a street view is available, so she can judge for herself whether the area meets her definition of "nice".

I'm so glad that Hawaii is a very racially diverse state and everyone pretty much gets along. Also, most neighborhoods are small so you can get a pretty good idea by just driving around. The only ungly incident I ever had was with a seller, who didn't like the color of a buyer that was interested in his condo. Luckily the buyer didn't like his condo, so that was the end of that.

I saw one person commented on the age of the neighbors. It is curious, but age is not a protected class as far as I can read. Now, familial status is a different matter. RESPA talks of age, but not Fair Housing, on the federal level at least. But as mentioned previously in a comment, we focus so on Federal Fair Housing laws, do not neglect to be aware of city, county, and state laws that could include other protected classes. There are many around the country. And bravo for them, in my opinion.

I also saw a person comment on how it is okay to comment on school assignments. While this is certainly okay and our MLS has places for you to list the schools for a particular property. Howver, I just did my relicensing and they said that one of the main reasons agents get into problems is by giving out inccorrect school info. Problem is, this year the kids might go to school A while next year the district zones could be redone and the owner's kids would go to school B. If you do not update your MLS data, and let's face it, some of our listings go on for over a year nowadays, you could have incorrect data and be liable (not an attorney here, check with yours). Personally, I give my buyers a link to the Pasco County School Board and they can enter the address for the time that they are buying and get the infor (right or wrong) from the school district, not from me.

I guess this turned out to be a pretty good discussion. I would like to point out that I have a large niche of selling retirement condominiums. I didn't pursue it...it just kind of fell in my lap. Since I deal with them almost daily...I can tell you that in age restricted communities such as these....they have their own bylaws. They can indeed be exempt in some way...such as you must be at least 55 to live there.....there are some cases that you can purchase them without bring the minimum age as long as you sign a document stating you won't occupy until 55 but you can rent them.

Also in my MLS...you are not allowed to mention for example.... 55 and over in the remarks section what they do allow you to do is say community represents HOPA Housing for Older Persons Act.

Here's an exerpt...

by persons 55 years of age or older, and-

(i) At least 80 percent of the occupied units

are occupied by at least one person who is

55 years of age or older;

There's more to it if you check out the whole act.

They do screen you and could refuse your application without giving reason.

These are just a few examples that may not considered under fair housing. Every state has different laws so just be aware of it.

Hi, Yes, I will not even get involved in anything like this. I tell them to go walk the neighborhood, themselves, if they wish to know more about things. I don't want to be accused of steering, of any kind. We must be extremely careful in this respect. Better to be safe than sorry.

Been there done that, had that on all levels. The hardest for me is when THEY PICKED The Listing, I get them there, and they will NOT Get out of the car, because of the neighborhood.

I go to the door, spologize that my client has already seen the property and I was in error. I realize I am lying, but I am embarrassed for my customers rudeness. I'm thrilled when no one is home and all I have to do is leave a card.

There is a great HOPA - Housing for Older Persons Q&A sheet on the HUD site. For example, they can be stricter than the basic requirements if they want. They can require that 100% of the units have someone 55+ in residence. Or they could require that all residents be that age or older. Some agents and buyer mistakenly think that the 80-20 rule means that the subdivision must allow in younger people up to the 20% limit. Would be worth your whild to read this sheet or print copies to hand out. But yes, if the home is a qualified 55+ or in rare occasion a 62+ (fewer of those) subdivision, that is an issue. However, HOPA is an exception to the "familial status" section of fair housing. Age itself is not mentioned in Federal fair housing law as a protected class.

our MLS also prohibits mentioning 55+, retirement subdivsion, etc. UNLESS we get an affadavit signed by the current HOA president and IF the subdivision appears on Florida's list of 55+ communities. Then we must scan and have these attached to the listing in the MLS so agents can download this proof. Most of us just do not say anything since it becomes too cumbersome and the HOA presidents get ticked at having to sign all this stuff.

But we also have a lot of subdivisions that do not qualify as 55+ but if you pull in with a family some guy will come running up telling you that you cannot sell to families there. However, if you listen to these liars and refuse to show the family the home in a non-55+ community, then YOU are in violation of Fair Housing law. I saw where HUD fined one community tens of thousands of dollars for playing this game. Don't know about you, but I do not have the money for those types of fines. 55+ communities are great, but you better be very familiar with the area before you start being an "expert" there. I am sure Neal will back me up on that. If you do not normally service that area, make sure you get the facts straight.

SEP

Neal this is a very touchy subject. I would never advise on the basis of race. If my Clients ask about demographics for a city...I can just forward them a link to the actual numbers.

Early this year we had a lead who insisted we help them find homes in areas that would be suitable to their family (ie. not so white). We didn't take the client. If a client wants to pick their own homes to see and just happens to do so based on their own diversity compfort level I will show the homes but I will not help them filter.

Steering of any form is not ethical. Neither is redlining. Yet, I talk with agents every day that tell me that areas of town are "too dark" for them...Or too depressed for them...etc. It's kinda sad, really.

Agreed, steering is illegal......

Give them the buyers advisory up front for the plethora of information it can provide a buyer. Drive the neighborhood, sometimes I suggest to drive it at night on a weekend.

Talk to the neighbors! They are the biggest form of information, especially those home owners who have been there for a while.

GREAT SUBJECT! Thanks!

Roxy

SEP

I understand the idea behind the fair housing act. Of course we don't want to discriminate in housing, but some of the rules feel like it has all gotten out of hand. "Steering" rules were set up to prevent agents from not showing specific neighbors such as "all white" to a black buyer in order to keep the status quo. Of course we all know this is rediculous and would not do it. The issues becomes when our client wants to live in near a particular church or away from a particular protected class. Are we really "steering" them by showing them what THEY WANT? It seems more that we are simply helping find the most suitable property to fit their desires. I don't know that I would drop a buyer due to his prefererences. That seems pretty self righteous to me. We cannot contol what other people think or feel and unless a buyer is being truly obnoxious about a protected class, I see no reason not to help them find a home they will be comfortable in. I do suggest that people go to the local grocery store to get a feel for who lives in the neighborhood if that is an apparent concern of their's.

NOV

I've actually directed them to the police dept. There they can ask ALL the questions that they want to.

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