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man with binocularsOkay, I’m going to do something I normally avoid; I’m going out on a limb and publicize my housing predictions for 2010. While I occasionally discuss general trends and opinions about the market, I think it’s important for all of us to have as much information as possible in order to properly plan our futures. And while this is only my opinion, after all, it’s the only one I can offer; it’s based on 4 decades of experience combined with careful observations of current trends and conditions. Here is what I see for the future of housing:

 

I think the Fed will throw everything in it’s arsenal towards keeping interest rates low throughout 2010. To do otherwise would be to sabotage an economy that has been both erratic and unstable, and would prove fatal in an election year. Though the government will prefer to fight looming inflation, doing so would simply cause the economy to nosedive; and I doubt they’ll be willing to take that risk.

 

While it may appear that home prices have stabilized, my guess is, they have not. I predict we’ll continue to see overall prices remain at their current levels and, in some areas, to decline well into next year. Foreclosures and short-sales will keep pressure on home prices for another 2 – 4 years. I cannot foresee how we can possibly have a significant resurgence in prices for at least 5 years, with prices not returning to 2005/2006 levels for a decade or more.

 

Foreclosures and short-sales will make up as much as 40% of total sales for the next 30 – 36 months. And the percentage could possibly be greater, depending upon how eager banks will be to put their inventory on the market. Their preference will be to pace their release to keep prices from plummeting, but the sheer numbers may make that impossible for some banks. Even after the supply begins to dwindle, the effect upon home prices will continue for at least another year.

 

Unless the government passes a major and all-inclusive tax credit, sales must remain sluggish. I don’t expect another housing incentive. There is little public support for throwing more billions at the problem, knowing that whatever increase might be realized, the benefit would be limited, temporary, and far too expensive.

 

By spring of 2012 interest rates will rise sufficiently to negatively impact home sales. While this is not the path that politicians would prefer, approaching a presidential election, it will be necessary to keep us from unbridled inflation. This potential scenario supports the premise for a continuing housing slump, extending into the following year and beyond.

 

Finally, the mid-term election will be both chaotic and unsettling. Both political parties will pull out the stops as never before, one attempting to hold on to past gains, and the other to recover from past losses; and they will spend more money, make more promises, and sling more mud than ever before. Political maneuvering in the coming year will certainly impact both the housing market and the economy, but it’s impossible to know what politicians are willing to do in order to maintain or gain power. While they would like for us to believe that their plans can restore the economy, there’s little remaining in their arsenal that can have a significant impact.

 

While many will view these predictions as meaningless negative claptrap, my intention is to share what I both see and believe to be true. If I am able to help one person make a more prudent choice, then my efforts will have been worthwhile. Take this with the proverbial “grain of salt,” but if it proves beneficial, we’ve both gained in the process.

 

The Housing Guru: The one source for all your housing questions

 
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206 Comments on Housing Predictions For 2010 And Beyond

SEP
20
2009
222,013 Points 9 Featured Posts

John,

I agree with all your points here.  Even though your last was not necessarily a housing market prediction.  While your views may not be optimistic, it's better to be realistic and be prepared to face these challenges.

5:19pm • #1
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Brian - I threw in the last one because it actually will ultimately have an impact on housing.  Regardless of which political party wins, their machinations could either help or hurt housing.  Don't know what they're willing to do, but I think it may be dramatic.

5:22pm • #2
1,545,551 Points 416 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I agree with every point. 

I'll add one.  I see a continued reduction in the number of real estate licensees for the next few years. 

And another one.  I see the economical recover a lot slower than the government or the NAR predicts.

Shucks.  They haven't even noticed the 20 million American home owners trapped and out of the housing and consumer market by negative equity. 

Fabulous post.  Of course, it's nice when I can agree with someone so completely. 

 

5:24pm • #3
124,149 Points 4 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I've heard some others making similar points, and while there will be variables in each local market, there is still a bumpy ride ahead. thanks for your thoughts.

5:25pm • #4
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Lenn - Thanks, I definitely agree with the decline in the number of agents.  It's just going to be too tough for many, and the amount of business available can't support current numbers.  And yes, overall recovery will be much slower than anyone would like to believe, especially politicians.

Alexsandra - Not only bumpy but frightful for some.

5:30pm • #5
Outside Blog

Yes, we're in interesting times.  A couple months ago I would have predicted with certainty that the $8,000 First Time Buyer credit would be renewed and even likely expanded.  But now...I'm not so sure.

5:45pm • #6

John:

I agree with most of your points except for 1: I believe that prices, at least in my area of the northeast, are going to stabilize in 2011.  I have had 2 bidding wars this year on my listings and I believe that most banks stopped encouraging adjustable rate mortgages in 2005-2006...5 years hence is 2010-2011..the time when I believe most adjustables will have adjusted.

When the foreclosures/shortsales leave us, I believe that most folks with equity in their homes can and will wait to list their homes ( most of my waterfront community is in this position now) and our inventory will decline.  Most homeowners in my community are either renting their homes or just not selling now until they see an improvement in pricing. 

Hopefully, I am right and the price turn around will come sooner than your prediction.

Katherine Fillman
5:45pm • #7
687,219 Points 83 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

This is bookmarked, and I'll look at this a year from now . . .

;-)

5:57pm • #8

Agree with you!

5:57pm • #9
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Darla - There are strong feelings on both sides, but I suspect those opposed will win out.

Katherine - I live in a waterfront community also.  The last home I sold before closing the doors to my building business--2 years ago--is now on the market for $30,000 less than I received, and that's after the homeowner spent another $40,000 on upgrades after closing.  The developer also added 300 lots about 2 years ago and to date, has sold about a dozen.

 

6:01pm • #10
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Carla - I have a file on "predictions" where I poke fun at past projections of others.  I've added a copy of this post to that file, too. It will be interesting to see how I fare--but if I miss the mark, don't be too tough on me : )

David - Thanks for stopping by.

 

6:04pm • #11
792,418 Points 32 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

I think you're standing on a strong limb---the impact will vary from location to location, but the overall predictions are based on solid observations.  Let's not take our seat belts off yet.

6:06pm • #12
102,010 Points 1 Featured Post Attended Rain Camp

john-

great post, but i just don't know enough to agree or disagree with you at this time.  

6:21pm • #13
412,293 Points 1 Featured Post

Well interesting prediction......I have to go with "whever will be will be" not much else we can do about it.

Patricia Aulson/portsmouth nh homes

6:24pm • #14
608,296 Points 26 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

John, your advice is prudent and I agree. It will vary for individual markets, with the markets bearing the most short sales/foreclosures delaying recovery the longest - CA, FL, NV, AZ. There will be downward pressure on prices until we work through the short sales and foreclosures. I'm bookmarking also, will look at next year and look forward to your update.

6:26pm • #15
512,992 Points 8 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

John,

I have only 3 decades of experience and believe that what you have written here seems logical

...........but since everything I was taught about economics and have learned about the real estate market in my career has been thrown out the window, I am going to take a wait and see attitude along with a real estate is local attitude. 

Congratulations on getting Lenn to agree with you. 

6:27pm • #16
405,259 Points 25 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

You sound a lot like Paul Harvey (G*d rest his soul)...I hope you are wrong, but truthfully, you are probably, right on...

Lenn has another great addition, we've seen less and less agents still active in our area.

Good day!

6:28pm • #17

Selfish reason for hoping for price stability in 2010:

I purchased my own waterfront home in 2004 for $526,000- a bargain at the time, spent $165,000 in renovations and now I am praying to get $575,000 when I list it in February.

I may be joing the ranks of short sale sellers!  My home appraised for $699,900 in 2005 when I got my 2nd to renovate.   My commissions income was also three times what I will make this year.

I only did what I had seen hundreds of sellers did in my 14 yr real estate career: buy junk & renovate waterfront homes- sell and make a fortune...sometimes I get the "why me's" when I realize the bubble broke just before it was my turn to sell...

A market is a market, they go up and they go down.  Pricing is everything now, but I am moving to the Florida Keys and if I am short, that's just the way it goes...I am not going to get any older waiting so sell my house!!!

I am painting and getting new carpet for the 2nd floor..presenting it in the best light possible.

Hope that life and real estate will be a little kinder in the Keys...

 

 

Katherine Fillman
6:30pm • #18

John - Great Post! Very insightful and timely. I also happen to agree with all of your points and the one Lenn added about less licensees. I don't think of it as a pessimistic view just a realistic one. Thanks

6:30pm • #19
390,849 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

I think we all more or less agree with you, because we understand the market. It's just still sad that many home owners believe we'll come out of this and then soar to previous heights quickly. Perhaps it's wishfull thinking but that's all it really is-wishing. I say that what we have now is the new real estate, embrace it or get out (Realtors).

6:36pm • #20
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Norma - I'd suggest cinching the belt a bit tighter.

Tim - That's not a problem--I don't either : )

Patricia - I agree that we can little impact the situation, but I do want to be aware to help me plan for the future.

Frank & Sharon - We'll see what the future holds.  If I'm still lucid in another year, I'll write a follow-up.

Julie - You're certainly right about the economy not following the rules; but that's what makes it interesting.

Karen - I'm just not quite as old as Paul Harvey--not quite anyway.

Katherine - I built a house on the water for a friend about 4 years ago that at the time was worth about $700,000. My friend just refinanced, and told me the appraisal was $375,000. 

Kathie - I'd like to have a rosy projection, but that's not what I see.

 

6:44pm • #21
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Corinne - It is the new world of real estate and the new economy, neither of which will look like the past for many years.

6:47pm • #22
672,070 Points 69 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

I actually agree with the predictions you make in the first five paragraphs. I'm not sure what I feel about interest rates, so we will have to reconvene in a few years on that one!

7:05pm • #23
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Melissa - I figured my guess was as good as any : )

7:13pm • #24
238,972 Points 1 Featured Post

John, I think your predictions are right on and they go along with what I have heard from other economists.  Just in case you missed it check out this article published in the June edition of Realtor Magazine.

7:45pm • #25
546,190 Points 11 Featured Posts

Hi John -- If this were a multiple choice test and you were one of four choices to select, I think you have a strong argument to make.  That said, all real estate is local, in fact, hyper local and sellers especially need to take an innovative approach to selling their home if the situation warrants (within economic realities of course).

7:45pm • #26
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

John,

I really hope you are right because for some odd reason, the Austin housing market always seems to boom when the rest of the country busts.  Guess we got to keep it weird down here.

7:56pm • #27
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Sybil - While I'd like to think otherwise, there's lots of evidence pointing to my conclusions.

Chris - Certainly conditions vary around the country, but overall I think we're in for continuing tough times.

7:57pm • #28
247,872 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John great post let us not forget that housing prices (in certain markets ) were run up artificially and unfortunately for the people who bought at those prices the facts are the facts and if we are to wait for those prices to come back... don't hold your breath.

Could you keep these posts for the middle of the week.... so I don't have to start my week with  these real facts looming over my head.

7:57pm • #29
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

David - There are certainly many who will suffer from falling prices. And you can just bookmark the posts and read them on Wed. : )

8:03pm • #30

John- If only we had someone with such a grasp on the real economies of the situation in charge this mess might be over earlier.

Fortunately we are in a market where the prices are slowly creeping up. We have had lots of multiple offers on homes and the homes are going above asking price. Hopefully this continues because we are way upside down.

8:08pm • #31
865,493 Points 50 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp

I think we are going to see prices increase sooner than you expect... and that will be largely because of inflation.  With the expansion of the money suppl,y inflation HAS to be the result.  Of course, prices may not go up as fast as inflation because of the weak jobs picture. 

Oh, and I don't see incentives really affecting the market.  I think that many of the buyers for the next few months have already made their play.

8:22pm • #32
536,023 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

I too think  prices overall will stay pretty flat.  The lower prices in certain areas might rise.

8:27pm • #33
Localism Sponsor
It will be interesting to see where the housing market will be in 2010. I have heared all kinds of predictions. Most seem to things are going to take another 2-3 years to stabalize.
8:33pm • #34
303,992 Points 37 Featured Posts Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

John, Your predictions are well-reasoned. Here in Orlando, prices have stabilized, but I don't trust it as far as next month. It's been too rocky a road. And I whole-heartedly agree with your minimum 10-year recovery assessment. It'll probably be longer, unfortunately.

8:35pm • #35
161,118 Points Outside Blog Hit Router

I think you are pretty close to being right on, it is going to be awhile before the housing market turns around.

8:39pm • #36
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Kim - Conditions do vary around the country, but you should expect to see an increase in foreclosures/inventory in the near future.

Lane - Inflation will be a problem at some point, probably a significant problem, but I believe the government will be able to keep it at bay for a while longer.

Chuck - Homeowners waiting for prices to increase before putting their home on the market, will need lots of patience.

Bryan - Just like the weatherman, I can only make a prediction based upon what I see today; tomorrow something could change that would cause a different outcome.

Judy - For your area and some others, recovery will be exceedingly slow.

Alan - Let's hope I miss the mark completely.

8:55pm • #37
223,131 Points 2 Featured Posts Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

John as always I will point out once again that Real estate is local, BUT given your reasoning, I do not think that matters.  You have nailed it on the head, and that is coming from somebody convinced that his local market will follow the national market, in a huge way.

Lenn i am afraid you are right and we will see another thinning of the herd.  I only hope, as I make the transitions I am going through in my business model, that I am not one of those sad statistics.  I am here to stay, but that is not always my call to make

8:56pm • #38
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Daniel - Conditions do vary widely, but the overall outlook isn't good.  There are just too many negative factors that have the potential to keep the market from recovering.

9:05pm • #39

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I am a realtor but I am also an appraiser Cal AR028570 and I have been tracking the market here in Southern California. What you have to say about real estate and the financial markets is as true as what we have information for. I am expecting a wholesale revolt against this Obama-nation that is presently in charge of this country which will surpass what happened to Clinton in 1994. The coming divisiveness in government will not bode well for attracting investment. Thus money will be come more expensive and that will keep the lid on market prices for residential properties. What we need is for entrepreneurs to be given free rein in the green tech industries as they were  in computing in 1996. Obama and the Pelosi-Reid Democrats will learn this and should learn this now or else they will have their heads handed to them in 2010 and 2012. Once wealth is being created once again enough will spill over into the area real estate markets from the incomes of those involved in the new industry. I have been advocating green solutions ot our energy infrastructure since 2001 but we didn't have the sense of urgency we have now. As Frank Zappa once said, "necessity is the mother of invention."(sic) The Feds won't bail us out, they will only take care of us long enough so that we can get back upon our feet. It is up to us so Heave-Ho and put your backs into it, me hearties!

Steven Davis, Claremont, California

steven davis
9:06pm • #40
622,286 Points 21 Featured Posts Outside Blog

you are gutsy.  I am not going to make any predictions until December.  until I know which way the gov is going with extending the first time home buyer credit

9:11pm • #41
1,400,148 Points 109 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

John, You have definitely thought about it... that's for sure.

9:14pm • #42
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Steven - Politically and economically I believe we're in for some interesting and chaotic times.  As for our "Green" revolution, I think the Chinese will beat us at that game.

Russ - I'll be the first to admit my errors if necessary--unless I think everyone has forgotten : )

9:15pm • #43
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Judi - And though my ability to think and analyze didn't make me rich, it does provide ample fodder for blog posts.

9:17pm • #44
2 Featured Posts

John - I think you're dead on!  How sad.  We were once a great nation.  Now, I don't know what we are.  It goes far beyond real estate.

9:36pm • #47
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Janet - The sad part is: few seem to have confidence that the government is even on our side.  And the divisions in our country will only grow deeper as we approach the next elections.

9:51pm • #48
494,048 Points 15 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hi John,

Congrats for climbing all the way out ther on that limb...I've probably sawed a few of those off myself over the past 3+ decades in r.e.  Yet as a fellow r.e. geezer, I see the wisdom of your years, and  I agree with most of your opinions. Yet, some markets may possibly be a little more regional than others.

In my area of So Cal, we're seeing a "blip" in prices sort of a mini bubble, in large part because of the current, (possibly) short term demand vs. the shortage of inventory. Most of us are seeing multiple offers on every single property out there.

Thanks for sharing your insight and I guess time will tell...(pst, my bets with you.)

10:15pm • #49

Great post and , oh, so true! I agree 100% with everything you said and then some. 

If we could just get the banks to tell us BEFORE we list, market, promote, secure a contract and work towards closing on a short sale - whether or not this particular property and borrower QUALIFY for a short sale!   Why should we be forced to do our ENTIRE JOB before they will let us know if we are wasting our time or not?  When we DO send a short sale package and offer into the lender, our EFFORTS have provided them with the information they needed to know whether or not to short sell or foreclose. 

My suggestion to hurry things up with the short sales is to REQUIRE lenders to do their own QUICK analysis as to whether or not a borrower and the property qualify for a short sale BEFORE we complete the entire job.  By doing this, more agents would feel confident in showing short sale properties to their buyers and the listing agents may not mind some kind of small commission reduction, IF THEY KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO GET PAID.  I think that letting agent and borrower know WHAT the conditions are to accepting a short sale BEFORE we put it on the market, is fair and will help the market improve, don't you?

10:17pm • #50
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Lynda - If I fall off my limb and break something, at my age they'll have to shoot me : ) I do know that some areas of CA have plenty of demand right now--just don't know what the future holds.

Deede - As you have probably seen, many banks are allowing short sales to proceed--with buyer, seller, and agent assuming everything is on track--and then foreclosing just before the short sale is finalized.  It's frustrating for all concerned.

 

10:27pm • #51
313,393 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John,

Your predictions make plenty sense. The Fed has to be the mortgage market maker for the foreseeable future otherwise real estate would collapse and drag the economy down deeper.

10:53pm • #52
1 Featured Post

John,

Wow. You see this lasting for much longer than I'd expect. The bulk of short sales and foreclosures should have new owners by late 2011. When that happens the balance between supply and demand should be within the same ballpark thereby pointing the market toward more normal conditions and growth. But that's just a couple years away not 3 to 4. Interesting perspective on all fronts. Thank you

11:44pm • #53
216,916 Points 1 Featured Post Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Although your predictions make sense, I am optimistic that we may see slow steady improvement.  This is definitely an unsettling economic and political time in our great country.

11:58pm • #54
SEP
21
2009
184,110 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Things could get better faster if the powers that be quit playing games... but with some of the legislation and regulations coming at us... America needs JOBS... too bad they are not making that happen... everything else would fall into place... they need to help small business and there are such easy ways to get things moving... but they do not seem to be on the agenda...

2:06am • #55
247,008 Points Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Unfortunately I agree with all points you are predicting and this area is experiencing a reduction in full time active associates.  Since real estate is local there will always be areas that may be experiencing better times, but, for the majority I think your thoughts will hold true and are right on.

Yes, the mid-term elections should prove to be very interesting.

Sue of Robin and Sue

2:26am • #56
1,017,121 Points 25 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I agree 100% but I would extend the timing to another 3 to 5 years. . .it will take longer to recuperate specially on the hardest hit markets.

6:09am • #57
343,100 Points 19 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Very interesting post and comments. I have only been in real estate six years, so I appreciate the wisdom of those who have many years invested.

In Oklahoma, we seem to always be a bit behind the nation's trends, and in Tulsa, we are not losing as many jobs as other areas. So, I hold out hope.

6:26am • #58
335,235 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

John,

As a realtor, obviously I hope that a housing recovery happens sooner and stronger than you predict.  But I believe your predicitions are based on logic and careful analysis.  I also appreciate your insights because you are not (it appears) directly tied to the housing market (like a realtor, appraiser, home Inspector, etc.).  So, your opinions seem to come from an unbiased viewpoint.

-Scott

6:48am • #59
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Esko - And having the Fed back out of the market will be an interesting event.

Kevin - According to the government's own analysis, we still have several million foreclosures to come.

Sharon - And I'd prefer to believe that I'm incorrect.

Debra - Yes, jobs are key to the recovery, and I don't think we'll see dramatic improvement for some time.

Sue - I suspect that we'll all be surprised by the antics and the outcome of the election.

Fernando - The economy is still so fragile that any of a number of events--terror attack, major flu outbreak, hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico, etc.--could create even more problems.

Lori - And perhaps you'll not experience the depth of the recession as some areas have.

Scott - Yes now I'm only an observer.

7:17am • #60
848,742 Points 153 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

John, I have to agree. The markets that had over inflation on home prices, investors, job losses, will continue to see price declines. There are too many folks upside down and can't refinance or sell for what they owe. The only alternative is to sell short, which brings down other home prices in the neighborhood. It is a vicious cycle.

 

7:26am • #61
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Missy - And the question for all of us and for the economy in general is: How much longer will housing suffer?  From looking at the data, it appears to be quite some time.

7:30am • #62
177,611 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Congratulations on yet another great post and of course the gold star. As much as your predictions are somewhat disconcerting, and as much as I hope that for once you're wrong, I'm afraid I'm going to have to admit that I agree with you all counts. We're in this thing for the long haul and too many folks out there are going to suffer.

8:46am • #63
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Sue - Thanks. I would like to be wrong on this one too, and it's certainly possible, but not likely given all the negative potential. 

9:15am • #64
Outside Blog

I agree with everything but the rates I think they may start to inch upward sometime next year this is the first time in US history real estate prices have come down and rates have stayed down usually it is the complete opposite but everything else you are on

9:17am • #65
268,741 Points 2 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Excellent post, however, I'm not certain that the Fed will continue to purchase mortgage backed securities to keep rates artificially low in 2010. Bernanke's latest comments suggest that they will taper off as well. Here's an interesting article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20603037&sid=aI1Eso1VomfE

9:59am • #66
123,720 Points 1 Featured Post

Hey, we all have predictions and nobody really knows. John's is as good as anybody elses. I tend to agree with him for the most part. I think quality wins out in how fast a segment rebounds and in the comments on waterfront property, that will recover faster as history tells us. Therefore, waterfront to me at these levels if you have the time to sit it out, will reward you down the road.

10:05am • #67
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Gene - Of course I'm only speculating, but I doubt the Fed will allow interest rates to rise significantly--as much as conditions might otherwise dictate--because of the negative impact on both housing and the upcoming elections.  We'll soon see if I'm wrong.

Darrell - Thanks, I saw the article this morning. But I'm still reluctant to believe that rates will rise as much as they should.

10:10am • #68

John - Excellent post. I feel your points present an overall US perspective. I believe in some submarkets things will improve before others.

10:14am • #69
1 Featured Post

Thanks for your opinion John.  As much as I like to put on my rose colored glasses, I think you are probably right on track!

10:15am • #70
I like this. This what we see happening as well. Http://www.davidpannellhomes.com
David Pannell
10:16am • #72

John, I agree with everything you have written. Let me add my 2-cents worth about jobs: There are more than 1million people who are going to lose their unemployment benefits very soon, with several million more to follow. If we do not stop shipping jobs overseas, our economy will never recover. Consumers can't "consume" if they don't have incomes. Without consumption, manufacturing, building, etc. must slow down. As a result, the value of existing products, homes, etc. must fall. It's a vicious downward spiral that cannot be fixed by printing money or offering 0% loans to the "big boys" who are too large to fail. The only solution is to put more money in the pockets of the the American consumers. That is done with jobs.

Gary Nagle
10:16am • #73

I agree.

10:17am • #74
Outside Blog

John,

Your comments on prices are right on target.  Let me cite a story I wrote for Real Estate Economy Watch last week.

Home prices will continue to fall over the next five years, though the greatest declines have already occurred this year and property value reductions will gradually decrease until 2014, according to a national price forecast released Tuesday at a conference on Challenges in Residential and Commercial MBS hosted by Fitch Ratings.

Comparing the current crisis to the recession of the early 90s, Dennis Capozza of University Financial Associates said that housing prices will again trail the overall economic recovery.  However, the severity of today's situation will drive prices lower and lengthen the time it will take housing prices to begin to appreciate, compared to the recession eighteen years ago.

Home price appreciation didn't turn negative until the second quarter of 2007, but once they started to fall, the slope was steep.  In the third quarter of 2008 they fell nearly ten percent.

Prices will fall 4.5 percent in real terms next year and the year after, and under four percent in 2012.  They will fall 3¼ percent in 2013 and less than 3 percent in 2014.  Some metros will stabilize before then.  Appreciation will be lowest on the coasts and the Midwestern states and highest in the Plains states and the Ohio Valley.

10:19am • #75

John

I appreciate your opinions - there pretty much reflective of my own.  Although I felt the initial new home buyer was good, continuing it would be a big mistake.  As far as home prices - I don't see them doing much except bouncing along the bottom for another year or two.

 

Gary Ytreeide
10:19am • #76
Outside Blog

I'm looking forward to when the buyers that purchased homes in 2009 with the low FHA interest rates get ready to sell.  In my area of San Antonio, that will start around 2012 when you predict a rise in interest rates.  Those loans can be assumed at the low interest rates of 5+% and even below 4%.  Those sellers will have leverage and I for one will work that market!  Got to look for the silver lining.

10:20am • #77

The truth hurts. I agree completely with your points, especially the 40% of properties being sold are distressed in some fashion. In LA we saw an interesting phenomona and I'm curious if any other Activerain real estate agents have noticed this.

There is obviously a ton of REO in Los Angeles. My neighborhood of Highland Park and Eagle Rock has been hit especially hard with REO, and yet somehow both sales and listing prices have increased slightly over the last three months. Now I realize that the summer boom usually happens, but considering that the lenders are holding at least 700000 unsold foreclosure properties that are not on the market, and that number increases daily, I don't see how there could possibly be anything but a freefall in pricing based on the simple rule of supply and demand. This is where it gets interesting. The big lenders (Chase/Wamu, Wells/Wachovia, Cwide/BofA, Saxon, Deutchebank) are deliberately and effectively manipulating the market by only releasing one single REO listing per month and letting 40 people bid on it, typically driving the price up by 15-25 percent over asking (and FMV.) They are able to get top dollar for one property at a time. How are they able to float their massive inventory? With bailout funds, of course!! The taxpayers are footing the bill for these lenders to hold onto their properties and then squeeze the buyers for every last cent. I for one am outraged that this abhorrent practice is allowed to continue.

Are any other Activerainers experiencing this?

10:21am • #78
680,088 Points 18 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Some interesting predictions...  I think it is very hard to get a handle on what is actually happening.... There is so much misinformation floating around. 

10:23am • #79

John,

Well put!  I believe we will not be able to really dig out unless they get credit more readily available for people that have reasonable credit ratings coupled with reasonable down payment requirements...ESPECIALLY in the Jumbo Lending!

As opposed to an extension, or different tax credit, they should put money to support FHA and make it price driven vs. local market driven as to the amount FHA can go to.

Good job!

Terry Swanson
10:26am • #80

John: Here in SE Michigan you can take your predictions and multiply by at least 2. Unfortunate, but true. Great thoughtful post. Thank you.

John MacLeod
10:27am • #81

I absolutely loved this post and agree 100%! 

I live in an area of Florida where there is not a lot of industry and is primarily a 2nd home market and retirement area and we are being effected drastically but my buyers have been some great deals but it really hurts the "real" sellers unfortunately.  :( 

Thanks again for all your great insights!

Tonya Kramer
10:28am • #82
Great post and I agree with almost every point, except that--despite the reckless damage it will cause--the government will enact and pass another incentive program designed to bolster home sales in 2010, and which may only serve to prolong any true recovery in housing. At present, the government is contemplating a $15K credit for all home buyers--not just the first-time buyers, and I see this as creating abuse rather than helping the market. Buy and bail is already an enormous problem here in California, and with a $15K incentive for all home buyers, making that practice more tempting, we may end up inadvertantly shifting and increasing distressed properties. And, in true California fashion, while Realtor numbers may be declining everywhere, in our state, the number of licensees increased from 532K to 543K.Go figure!
Grace Morioks, SRES, e-Pro
10:29am • #83

John that was very well stated!  Your perdictions were met with caution and that is refreshing.  As an agent my job is to let the buyer or seller know what the property is worth TODAY.  RE agents are not economists and we have often got into hot water by playing one.  So with your post I thought you had some excellent points and it would hard to dissagree with any of them.  Your advise to take it with a grain of salt was the best.  We should not fear predictions but go out and sell....that is our job.  The consumers will determine if it is best to sell now or wait and the same goes for buyers.  Some need the tax deduction and a stable place for their family now!

Craig Druckrey
10:29am • #84
132,452 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Hit Router Attended Rain Camp

John, I believe in larger markets with the biggest increases will see exactly what you described (Florida, California, Las Vegas, etc.). However I am hopeful that other markets that never saw the dramatic price increases (like Raleigh and Pittsburgh to name a couple) are already seeing stabilization.

I agree that interest rates won't go up dramatically next year. I am watching to see if the government will pass legislation to extend and expand the tax credit. That could change the future picture.

10:29am • #85
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Wayne - Thanks for your comments. I agree that some markets will fare much better than others, but taken as a whole, the picture isn't good.

Susan - I think we need to see clearly in order to prepare for the future of our business.

David - Thanks for stopping by.

Gary N. - Jobs are key to selling homes and to the overall economy.  And job growth hasn't even yet begun; and when it does, it will be exceedingly slow.

Angela - Thanks.

Steve - Your link doesn't seem to be working, but I'll try to track it down. Thanks for your comments.

Gary Y. - We'll see what politicians are willing to do, but public sentiment has turned against just throwing billions of borrowed/printed money at our problems.

 

 

10:30am • #86
Outside Blog

John,  Great post.  I agree with what you have written, but have my own fear that higher interest rates may come sooner than 2012.  That, IMHO, could really hurt what is left of the market.  If interest rates go up then homes would have to go down in price or NOBODY will be able to afford a home.  Echos of Jimmy Carter ring in my ear.  I hope I am wrong. 

10:30am • #87

I also agree with you on every point. Great blog and great insight!

Lainie Ramsey
10:30am • #88

I believe that it's best to be realistic.  Enough of the fake positive comments!  Yes, we need a larger number of things to be positive in our industry and it doesn't hurt to emphasis those positives throughout a rough couple of years, but best to be realistic so we can devise our plans, strategies, goals, and tactics accordingly!

10:31am • #89
198,363 Points 12 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

I do agree with many of your points, but that being said, I think a national housing market prediction is about as effective as a national weather forecast, saying that conditions will be the same everywhere.  My area is expected to have much higher than normal growth with many businesses moving in as well.  Foreclosures are still few and far between and not necessarily bargains at all.  We're in a city with a major university as well and parents can minimize their housing costs by buying property and renting rooms. 

I think it's extremely important to point out that each area is independant and that different situations will impact the market, sometimes negatively, sometimes positively.

10:31am • #90

John,

Real Estate is all local. I see a national recovering in pricing, few will see its inflation due to the base money supply going from 1.2 trillion to 1.8 trillion THIS YEAR. The people who fail to see the "boom" for what it is, will follow the lemmings ober the next cliff. Its how these things go.

Focus on affordablity, the better it gets, the better it gets

JT

10:36am • #91
105,034 Points

I agree...and I'll agree that there will be many, many less real estate agents in two years.  However, IF the elections next year bring in more republicans and we can achieve a more balanced government, I do believe people will start to have a more positive outlook.  Balance is the key, and going back to the constitution will bring more of it.

10:37am • #92
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Donna - There's always a "silver lining," and the creative ones always find it!

Sky - At some point the banks will reach the "tipping point" beyond which they can no longer hold properties.

Joan - And all of us who do make the predictions do the same as the weatherman. We guess.

Terry - Don't count on the government making the most prudent decisions.

John - I know you guys have had it tough, and it doesn't appear that things will get any easier.

Tonya - Thanks for visiting.

Grace - Yes, the government is capable of almost anything, but if they're listening to the voters--and they will as the election approaches--it will become more difficult to pass another housing stimulus.

Craig - Yes, the good news for Realtors is: There will always be a certain number of buyers; the challenge is to be the agent selected to assist in the purchase.

Kathryn - The government always has the power to surprise us; and their actions will impact our future.

10:40am • #93
130,756 Points 5 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Although you think you're way out on that limb John, you may not be as far out as you think.  I agree with most of your rationalizations but I do understand that our country's real estate market has always been resiliant. Although our economy is more globally tied than ever before, America may not be the market that drives us out of this slump.  When and how our economy begins to improve, it will begin with the housing market as it usually always does.

Those commentors here claim that they are in a regional market and they may not be feeling as much pain as other markets, must understand that their local bubble didn't need as much deflating. My own local market was not that inflated to begin with and we have seen some segmented market pricing pressures...no freefalling prices... except those with exagerated and overpricing by speculators to begin with.

10:43am • #94

You have some very interesting points, thanks for sharing.

Michelle Cappabianca
10:45am • #95

There is currently a bill in committe (HR2801) that would extend the credit to Jan 1, 2011, eliminate the "first time homebuyer" clause and insert "anyone purchasing a primary residence" and also eliminate the income requirements.  Keep in mind, this is only in a committee and not up for a vote at this time.

The Feds are stuck right now between a rock and a hard place.  They need to find an exit strategy without doing further damage to the economy, which is in a extremely fragile state.  Anything they do right now, will be met with an initial "knee jerk" reaction, followed by cooler heads prevailing.

I agree with most of your comments.  I am not sold on how much this existing credit is helping.  I believe that if lenders can find a way to allow this as an upfront downpayment, it would make it a grand slam. 

Mark Kurth
10:46am • #96

Thanks John for all of your comments.  I truly believe that the more realistic sellers get with their pricing, the sooner the market will turn.  There is no reason a house can't go under contract in 30 days or less....if it is priced right.  I have had a few recent listings that have gone under contract because the seller looked and responded to the comparables I provided them and priced their homes accordingly.  It can be very painful for the seller, but it also shows them where their motivation lies.

Molly Werner, Weichert Realtors (Clinton, NJ)
10:46am • #97
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Dean - Many of us remember the Carter years--my state sent him to DC--but I do see the government trying to hold down interest rates as long as possible.

Lainie - Thanks for visiting.

Chris - I, along with many of those commenting, have pointed out how market conditions vary around the country, but even those areas with better markets suffer when the majority suffer.

Jeffrey - Many factors affect housing and the economy, but two major factors that will significantly impact both are unemployment and foreclosures. We'll have to deal with both before we recover.

Monica - I believe the political climate next year will be nothing short of total chaos. Where we wind up is anyone's guess.

10:49am • #98
101,562 Points 2 Featured Posts

John,

I agree with most all of your predictions.  However, I am skeptical about one point - whether or not the homebuyer credit will continue.  I suspect that it will.  If it does not, I expect us to see more of a nosedive in housing.  I think according to NAR, about 19-20% of home purchases resulted directly from the current incentive.  Just as the Fed will pull out the stops to keep interest rates low, I think ammunition like this NAR data will be used to sway votes to extend these incentives.

Another prediction to add to the list.  The rate of homeownership will drop from its current 67.4% (already down from 69.2% at its peak Q2-2004), down to its 40-year average of 65.4%.  If the housing incentive is not extended (in some flavor) then it will drop well below the 40-year average, although, I hope not so far as the low of 63.5%.

10:52am • #99
4 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I agree with your analysis.  It is a refreshing honest assessment.  I particularly like that you acknowledge how the banks/servicers have been holding back both on foreclosures and REO inventory, both of which strategies are skewing the marketplace.  The big unknown is the adverse effect on the economy due to government intervention in the marketplace - bank bailouts, insurance company bailouts, housing incentives - but no legislative (bankruptcy reform) relief for homeowners.

I know that I often point to the California market, but how can more than 10% of the U.S. population and one of the world's largest economies be ignored.

One more thing may be observed is the historical appreciation in home prices prior to October 2001 of about 3%-4% per annum (from October 2001 through April 2007 was a clear aberration); recalculate home prices as of October 2001 at the historical rate and you will see where we will end up!

10:53am • #100

John:  You are not only right, you are preaching to the Chior.  Many of the So Cal Agents are painting a rosy picture with the multiple offer paint brush.  My experience is not the same in Central CA except in the low end first time buyer market. When the 8K tax credit goes away they will dry up too I am affraid.  We have little to no move up or mid range buyers making offers which will be the next wave of foreclosures in my area because of the negative equity syndrome.  I too believe we will see the short sale REO market dominate more than 40% of our sales for the next 2-3 years.  Thanks for the great post.

CJ Johnson, CRS,ABR, Broker-Trainer
10:55am • #101
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Randy - During my 4 decades in the business I've always felt the market's resilience to be remarkable, but I also believe that conditions are far worse than I've ever experienced. 

Michelle - Thanks for visiting.

Mark -The Fed's exit strategy is the key, and I don't think they've yet found it.

Molly - Many sellers who aren't pressed to sell, aren't willing to sell at today's prices, but few realize that the prices of 3 years ago are far into the future.

 

10:55am • #102

One of the few realistic projections that I have seen.  We have to get thru the commercial realestate bust that is looming, the OARM mess for a few more years, no new jobs on the horizion, and then we might see some improvement.  I think that 2011 or 2012 is a realistic time frame to see much improvement

Dick Whittington
10:56am • #104

John, I agree with you 1000% all the way to the last paragraph.  Interesting times are ahead of us!!!  What a mess!!!  Thank you for sharing this great post. Darn... I have to get out of my comfort zone and tackle the short-sales..  UGH !!!!

10:58am • #105
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Robert - I agree that home ownership rates will continue to decline, and may drop below historic averages for a time; and I don't know if their will be enough support to continue the tax credit.  We'll see.

Louis - Most homeowners don't want to do that calculation.

CJ - Thanks for visiting.

10:59am • #106
121,998 Points 1 Featured Post Attended Rain Camp

Wow, I truly appreciate all your insight and experience as I'm not a realtor, just a home owner who happends to own a handyman business and we follow your model as most work gets done within 6-9 months of moving in, or preparing a home for sale.

11:02am • #107
814,168 Points 7 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

These all sound reasonable and sound.  There is always the Wild Card Factor; someone will introduce or pass some unique Law or Regulation upsetting the current status qua.  Maybe a Short Sale Bill of Rights (Something to force banks to work with them and be more cooperative) or maybe they will go back and try again to let mortgages be adjusted in Bankruptcy.

I do not agree or disagree with any of the above; just things that could change the market dramatically.

11:05am • #108
122,759 Points 1 Featured Post Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Lots of info to consider and take into account. Gene is right about the wildcard. It is very hard to predict. Things could happen very quickly.

11:06am • #109

Brian:

I see your predictions, albeit "I'm taking them with a grain of salt" to be accurate.  I have mentioned the very same thing to clients and customers.  Right now we have so much inventory (I practice in New York) that it will only drive pricing downward.  We have had a modest price decline in the last year and a half of about 11-15 percent.  However, as you mention there will be more an more inventory resulting from short-sales and foreclosures flooding the marketplace.  With this happening the fair market sale homeowner has to compete, thus reducing their price.  Also, I like you believe rates will be kept low, however, I'm leaning toward them not rising too much after 2010.  I think the government is trying their very best to funnel strength into the housing sector, if they don't it will have negative impact on the overall economy.

In all of this the banks need to free up the cash.  I'm understanding from a former Wall Street friend who has a solid 40 year background in stocks and options etc that the banks are investing in Fannie Mae because they are getting a better return.  If this is hearsay so be it.  We need to tighter our belts and bite the bullet and if you're working on a commission only basis be prepared for what's ahead. 

Thanks for the pragmatic prediction, which alot of people in the industry don't want to mention.

Diane Malagreca
11:10am • #110
Localism Sponsor

John...Great post and you are 100% spot on.

As many Brokerages and Agents prepare their own 2010 budgets and forecasts your post is very timely.

Last year, at this time, we barely escaped a major "Black Swan" event that nearly brought down our economic system as we know it. Brokerages and agents saw deals go away as the government announced bailout after bailout...as billions of dollars where thrown at major banks "to save the system". While ending standard we tightened and actually dried-up for many segments of the economy little has changed as to how these institutions conduct business.

And while a large stimulus packaged was passed, very little was actually put in place (12% to 14%)...and even that money was politically directed and provided very little, if any true stimulus to the economy.  I'm sure the money now held in reserve will be used to buy political favor as we head into the mid-term election cycle.

Because of how we as a nation have conducted our selves both economically and politically we have many other potential "Black Swan" events facing us that could make last years events look like a Sunday school picnic.

Here is just a few:

  • The $7 trillion commercial real estate market (actually worse than the US residential market)
  • China selling Treasuries (flight from the dollar causing much higher interest rates overnight )
  • China defaulting on derivatives (triggering a chain reaction in the financial markets)
  • Japan sell Treasuries
  • Some other chain reaction event in the $1 QUADRILLION derivative market

Additionally we need to be concern with these potential events also:

  • The H1N1 virus (a major flu pandemic would stop all economic growth in its tracks)
  • A major bank failure (rumors all over the Internet)
  • Some other item no one sees coming (e.g. attack on the Internet, remember Gmail shut down for an hour a few weeks ago, or imagine if the NYSE's servers went down).

China continues to warn us about how we spend the money they loan us...bailing out banks and borrowers with this money does China no good, especially when the banks bailed out pay their top management billions in bonuses.

We have the old Chinese cures placed upon us: "may you live in interesting times"

11:10am • #111
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Dick - I considered adding in a note on CRE.  The collapse of the commercial market will also have an impact on both the overall economy and housing.  Many more community banks will fail, making good sources of local money difficult to access. 

Inez - You probably never were that comfortable in that comfort zone anyway : )

Tina - Thanks for stopping by. BTW I love to visit your "neck of the woods."

Gene - Oh yes, the wild card factor.  Who knows what trickery may lie up the sleeves of Congress.

11:14am • #112
101,688 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor

Well considered points. I do think Americans aren't as patient and won't put off a move forever. Even if interest rates creep up, they'll still want to move before it "might get worse."

 

Cheers!

11:14am • #113
1 Featured Post

Predictions are educated (and sometimes uneducated) guesses.  I know very well that markets are different from state to state.  I am an agent in Minnesota and based on what I've seen and experienced in this area, I would disagree with every prediction made.  I'm not sure what state you practice in, but I know I've been looking for real estate in Florida and the forecast there is miserable.  So again, predictions are guesses and if we knew what was going to happen we all would have sold out in 2005! :)

11:14am • #114
141,562 Points

John,

I am going along with your predictions. I agree we are in the market we face right now for at least another 3 years. I am in Arizona, one of the harder hit markets and short sales is pretty much all I do right now.

If there is any silver lining in this cloud, it is that back in 2004 and 2005, the phrase "any turkey can fly in a hurrricane" applied and our industry had a huge influx of agents that delivered pizza in their previous career. Now the winds have died, those same turkeys will be forced out of the skies and hopefully we will be left with more professionals in our markets which can only be a good thing.

11:18am • #115

I disagree with you. historically what you are saying has never happened. If you look at some the bell weather areas like Orange County California. listing inventory has dropped from 16,952 homes 24 months ago to 11,842 12 months ago to 8,064 in todays market. Foreclosures have dropped to only 4.1% of the market and they are selling on an average 103% of list price. 

As the economy recovers over the next year we will see prices start to rise and consumer confidence start to pick up. Pricing is always half market place realities and half emotional an response to what people believe will happen in the future. 

It's a lot safer to predict bad things then good. Pick any area in the US and you will never see a 10 year period that does not have property values go up. I don't have to go out on a limb to know that by 2016 home prices will be higher then they were in 2006. 

Greg Herder
11:20am • #116

--Meanwhile, foreclosures haven't slowed. Waves of stated income and option ARMS will continue to
default at a record pace over the next two years as 3 and 5 year loans reach their first adjustment. B of A and Wells Fargo will not be able to hide their weaknesses -- hide non-performing "assets." Our government will continue to centralize economic controls rather than mandate steps to stop the bleeding where it began (i.e. it will not stop unnecessary foreclosures). Israel will probably attack Iran. The Persian Gulf will be blockaded. The price of oil will go to $300 or $400 a barrel. I agree. We are in for a rough ride.

James Fitzgerald
11:21am • #117
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Lisa - Yes, those nasty little wild cards!

Diane - The inflation factor is one that creates some uncertainty. Keeping rates low will become difficult over time.

Carol & Vince - You've mentioned several possible scenarios that could wreak havoc on our economy, and I would add another major one, terrorist attack; and any one of these would create chaos.

Tre - And there are still lots of buyers with money--a nice prospect in a down economy.

Brian - I began winding down in 2006 and did sell out.  A little more than 2 years ago I closed the doors to my residential construction company after 4 decades in the business.

11:27am • #118

GREAT POst!!!!

 

What do you do about the REALTORS that are in denial and don't even believe that the banks are inundated with short sales and foreclosures yet to be released?

 

REALTORS don't believe the staggering numbers here in AZ, they think it's commercialism and hype!

 

Thanks for the post!

Roxy

11:28am • #119
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Sheryl - Yes, some of the "turkeys" have had their wings clipped.

Greg - If you're referring to your specific area, as many have mentioned, conditions vary around the country.  However, while you may see foreclosures at 4.1% of the market, I just read a post by another agent whose market consisted of 100% foreclosures.  What many have yet to grasp is that the current housing market is the worst since the Great Depression, according to government statistics; it will not recover the same as it has in past recessions. But, just as you, I can only express my opinion. What the future holds will not be realized until it arrives.

James - You've just added a bouple of additonal scenarios to the mix. Whatever occurs will not be business as usual.

11:36am • #120
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Roxy - What do you do about the REALTORS that are in denial?  You ignore them and take their business with a smile.

11:39am • #121
1 Featured Post

Great post and I definitely agree with just about everything. Here, where I live in California... I do think it has stabilized but that is due to more buyers than homes coupled with slow release of bank owned. I have been hearing since March there will be a big release but so far... nothing much! If they did not do it during the summer when all was hot, I don't think they will. The banks have indeed stopped the downfall but we are still having about a 50% off sale so still many people clammering to get in. I think the banks are choosing to sell them off behind the scenes to the flippers and others pursing the  investment opportunity avenues to keep market value more stable.

Everytime you get a handle on it, more  changes..... so what is going to happen remains to be seen but I will be watching. I do think you have a good insight, I think you have some I told you so statements coming your way!

11:41am • #122

Hi John,

Thank you for taking the time to post this blog.

Please know the fed has to control over long term interest instruments like the those used for home morgages. You might be right when it comes to the next 30-36 months of dealing with forclosures but I guess I am a little more optimistic than that here in my market in the midwest.

This winter and into spring 2010 will be very telling.

Although I think I'm hearing you say the worst is over. I do agree with you there.

Thanks again, Bill

 

Bill Leith
11:45am • #123

Opps, spelling and word correction.

I meant, "Please know the fed has no control over long term interest instruments like the those used for home morgages.

Sorry...Bill

Bill Leith
11:50am • #124
Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

I guess I should consider myself lucky to only have been in the business for 2 years. I work hard and don't see it as a down turn; I've always had to work hard. I do see it as a challenge and one I intend to continue. I'm thankful that it seems like business as usual for me to win the confidence of my clients and it should make my job easier in some ways when so many agents feel so frustrated that the job is more work than ever these days and for me it seems normal.

I would love for it to turn around quickly but don't see that happening any time soon and I will march on so that when the time comes even 10 years from now when I'm older and more tired my job will hopefully seem like a piece of cake!

Giving it my all in MA & CT!

 

11:50am • #125
147,681 Points

I posted these comments on a few other blog posts, but they are also relevant here.

I agree with your comments regarding the future of the housing market. I have been saying very similar things. When the government implements any program, tax credit, etc. it must evaluate ALL the consequences. Unfortunately, it rarely does. All these bailouts, housing tax credits, expansion of the FHA, etc. have artificially driven housing back up. The problem is that it has also allowed the government, Wall Street and the banks to not make the fundamental changes that are required to prevent this from happening again. Wall Street is still heavily leveraged (to the tune of 14 to 1), Banks are still as dysfunctional as ever and Fannie/Freddie are still failing. The bailouts and tax credits have created conditions that are allowing banks to withhold 50-70% of REO foreclosures from the market by altering their immediate need for capital. Instead, the banks are charging consumers record (and outrageous) fees for banking services to get quick capital and holding off on selling their foreclosures in the hopes that the government will buy the bad debt for more than the properties are worth. These are unintended consequences of the government's actions, but believe me, they are negative in every way. Distortion of the market always is. All the government's actions are being done to inflate housing prices to "jump start the economy". The problem is that housing has never been the driver of the economy, but, rather driven BY THE ECONOMY (think jobs and income). Using inflated housing prices to create jobs is like eating your own arm to prevent you from starving. While it may temporarily alleviate your hunger, the long term prognosis is not good. In keeping with that, here is what will happen to housing. These artificial government actions will push housing back up a bit. Things will look good for a while. Then the government will no longer be able to keep these incentives up and when they pull the rug out the housing market will decline again. There is no way to stop the millions more foreclosures that are coming. Despite the efforts of the Federal Government via the Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP), foreclosures will increase. In fact according to Michael Barr, assistant Treasury secretary for financial institutions, "even if HAMP is a total success, we should still expect millions of foreclosures". There is just no way around this. Think about it. Does it make sense that housing prices should naturally increase when unemployment is at 10% (real number is more like 17%) and foreclosures are hitting new records every month? Of course not. Rent control as a long-term method of artificial rental rates compression did not work in NYC and bailouts and tax credits will not work as long-term method of artificial real estate price inflation. Also, what about the repeated government and housing industry mantra of "affordable housing"? Was that all nonsense and lies? Seems like it. If they really cared about affordable housing they would not clamor to alter the market since the market is doing more than all of their actions combined to make housing affordable. The government needs to evaluate the total costs of their bailouts and tax credits versus just letting real estate prices falling and, as a result, declining tax revenues and the FDIC needing to take over more banks. I cannot imagine that the TRILLIONS that the bailouts and tax credits will ultimately cost to "save the market" will ever be justifiable in any financial or economic sense.

The last time the real estate market melted down (think late 80's/early 90's) it took 7 years for homes to regain their losses.  This meltdown is far worse because it is not just due to real estate over development/over building.  It was caused by debt.  Plain and simple.  That is why the people in Washington cannot fix this problem - you cannot fix a problem caused by debt with more debt.  It defies logic and reason.  The facts are that even at their current reduced levels, home prices are still out of line with incomes when compared to historical trends.  Therefore, contrary to NAR homes are not affordable.  (Side note: I really cannot stand the NAR Home Affordability Index.  Since when did Realtors become used car salespeople hawking homes by selling the monthly payment instead of the price?)  The reason loan modifications will not work is that they do not address the core problem: mortgage balances are too high relative to the market value of the homes.  Many homeowners are actually now underwater (owe more than their homes are worth).  According to a recent Deutsche Bank report by 2011 about 48% of all US mortgages will be underwater.  Since being underwater is now the #1 statistical driver of defaults (not credit scores) you can bet on high foreclosure rates for years to come.  Since the entire economy was built on consumer spending and that consumer spending was fueled by debt and that debt is no longer available you can be sure that when things do actually turn around unemployment will remain relatively high with a likely range of 6-8% as opposed to the 4-5% range we enjoyed a few years ago.  Based on the debt problem and the unemployment problem I just do not see how the real estate market will recover anytime soon.

This whole thing is sadly comical.  You have nonsense from NAR and the mainstream media about how the real estate market is turning a corner and recovering yet foreclosures and unemployment are skyrocketing.  The US real estate market has never recovered under such circumstances and this time will not be the exception.  Almost every day I fell like screaming 'STOP THE NONSENSE."  If they would just let housing prices decline to their normal sustainable levels and get rid of the FHA loans, other low/no down loans and ARM loans not only would this never happen again, but the social engineers in Washington would not have to worry about "affordable housing" since housing would in fact already be affordable.  Sometimes the answer is just plain old common sense.

I predict that values will continue to fall relatively rapidly through 2011 (when the large wave of Option ARM's ends) and then continue to decline gradually until the foreclosure rate reduces to normal levels and the unemployment rate reduces back down to a more realistic 6-8%.  At that point real estate values will recover at the normal 4-7% per year.  I cover a lot of this on my blog www.HaltingForeclosures.com.

 

11:57am • #126

John,

I think you are on target! - It seems we're traveling down an uncharted path with historically low interest rates and ridiculous home values... What is going to happen when interest rates really start to climb again? I remember when interest rates were 13%... home prices won't rise because no one will be able to afford to buy... I've been biting my tongue as I hear people discuss the "quote recovery" of the housing market, simply because there's a little summer surge, everyone thinks we're on our way back. NOT!!! ;-)

If only that were the case. Glad to see someone else has taken off the rose colored glasses. Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone!

Keri Abbott
12:01pm • #127

I agree with every point you made.  Thanks for your comments.  It is my opinion that Americans must face the reality of our situation. 

Patsy Snyder
12:05pm • #128
837,443 Points 163 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

John - Unfortunately, I agree with you, too.  I think things are too far gone in some areas to see any significant turnaround for years to come.

12:09pm • #129
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Diane - Ultimately we'll see what the future holds, but I do think it's good to make our "best guess."

Bill - While the normal actions of the Fed don't directly impact mortgage rates, their actions certainly affect indirectly, and the purchase of mortgage backed securities is a way of dabbling in the market.

Kathleen - In many ways you may have an advantage over some agents who are not ready or willing to adapt to the new market. Good luck.

James -  . . . you cannot fix a problem caused by debt with more debt. I think that sums it up.

Keri - I had to trade in my rose colored glasses for a magnifying glass : )

Patsy - And thanks for visiting!

12:17pm • #130

I believe we are 'mostly' on the same page.

The FED will keep rates low as long as they feel deflation is in check. The FED is more worried about another situation like in Japan they will throw housing and everything else out the window to re-inflate the economy. They also need to keep interest rates on US Treasury Bonds high enough to keep those holding from liquidating and also keep them being purchased. obama's czar that wants a world currency will put the US on equal footing with 3rd world countries. 

 In many areas prices have stabilized but in many others they will fall a little yet. In a few local areas prices fell very little early on and have been rising for over a year. Banks may begin doing more to get short sales closed faster as there is less interest in them every week. They will do even more to get foreclosures off the books before homes go into complete disrepair. Better condition means higher prices received. Look for them to start turning some over to management firms to rent for 1 - 2 years. That will also help control supply/demand. Price-Shiller numbers in the metro areas will be pressured much more than those in rural and small town areas. Condos may linger at low prices in S Fl and other areas that were overbuilt, but homes overall should recover first. Sadly, it will take more GOOD jobs, not the low paying ones the current administration seems to favor before home prices rise significantly.

 Manipulating the market with $8K only put some people into homes earlier than they would be and still others into homes they will not be able to keep. Many areas have seen entry level home inventory shrink but no other effects. A little bounce now with buyers that would have been in the market in 2 to 5 years anyway. A huge hit on taxpayers with very little positive. NAR begging for more does nothing but make our industry look greedy.

We can hope mid-term elections see congress become diversified and not ruled by one party, especially this group of free spenders. Spending is only one area they are in over their heads with. No matter what- 2012 really needs a leader in The White House! It will take decades to get out of the debt the current administration has put the US in.

 

 

12:20pm • #131
105,400 Points 2 Featured Posts

The reason that no one can get a handle on what the housing market is going to do is because the economy in general is undergoing a basic transformation. Many sectors are experiencing fundamental reorganization and structural unemployment right now, meaning that market conditions aren't just going through the ups and downs of a normal, long-term business cycle, the rules of the game are actually changing underfoot. 

I've heard a lot of people comparing the current economic crisis with the great depression of the 1930's. Nothing could be farther from the reality of what we are facing now. When America escaped from the grip of that market meltdown we were an emerging industrial power, the world's natural resources were still considered limitless, and we were about to come through WWII as essentially the last man standing. America ruled the world for the next 40 years and took the spoils of war. In the 1960's Americans constituted 5% of the world's population and consumed 50% of the global resources and output.

We were all hot-house flowers. Beautiful and prosperous and living in a house of glass.

Well, the window are all bashed out and the flowers are dying. The only survivors will be those that can adapt to life in the real world. The reality that we're dealing with today is that millions of jobs and trillions of investment dollars have been out-sourced over the last thirty years and America is competing with a hungry world for an ever shrinking pie of natural resources. Also, the money and jobs that have been lost are not coming back. we have to find new ways to function economically. Competing on a level playing field while having to support one of the highest standards of living on the planet puts us all on a difficult path for the next ten or twenty years.

12:26pm • #132

You might be right about things not looking too bright for the near future and it has and will continue to be a bumpy ride for us Realtors.  But, when I got into the business about 7years ago, a Wise Realtor told me.."Sale 'em One House At a Time!!" We can't determine what the future will be, we can only make educated guesses.  But this is market is very UNPREDICTABLE and the thing that drives it the most....is the Media!! Whenever there is good news being fed,  then people eat it up and there's  activity.  But when there is bad news then they clam up and retreat into their little cubby holes!  The real beast that controls this market is "CONSUMER CONFIDENCE"!! It basically controls everything!! That's why it is so unpredictable. But the best thing that I try to do as that Wise Realtor advised me is do the best I can with Whatever Listing I get, and try my best to help that first time home buyer and make sure I guide them along the process with as much information and knowledge as possible because in the end, what really makes a difference is their CONFIDENCE IN US!! And that includes being upfront and honest with them as your post brought out.  We are the force that drives this market and if we can regain that confidence that was lost and take control again of our being the Professionals in the market then we can...Take Control of the Market!! Because it is partly our faults that we are in this jam because...WE DIDN'T HAVE TO LIST IT THAT HIGH OR SALE IT TO THE BUYER AT THAT HIGH PRICE!! Sure our commissions were bigger but we are paying for it now!! We can take control again of the market because we are the Market Experts.  Once we get the public to see that again, then we will gain their Confidence and we will see things improve again!! Oh and another quick fix that would improve things a great deal if it was addressed......Immigration.  Your thoughts on that please!

Robert Webb
12:46pm • #133
156,572 Points

John, I appreciate your forecast, based on your evaluation of economic components. I think you are correct, possibly even a little optimistic. There are so many factors that are unpredictable, when we have a government that's interfering so much with the normal market forces.

12:54pm • #134

I agree that the mid-term elections are going to be very chaotic and in some ways unconscionable - politicians will be pulling out all the stops in terms of mud-slinging and making undeliverable promises. 

I also agree with your forecast for a slow recovery.  I just hope nothing interferes with the stability of interest rates. 

Additionally, I believe the real estate agent population will definitely see a decline with brokers competing far more aggressively for those reputable and highly productive agents remaining in the business. 

1:04pm • #135
134,218 Points

John,

I agree with all your predictions, especially the political mudslinging. We are going to be very tired of it by November of next year.

And I have only been in real estate 2 1/2 years, but I see a second wave of foreclosures coming from the $8,000 tax credit. People are using it to get in to homes they really can't afford. A year or 2 fro now they will be losing them, long with the car they bought through cash for clunkers.

1:09pm • #136
125,663 Points 24 Featured Posts

John,

I've been working on a post that agrees with you 100% about not being out of the woods yet. Being in the LA County  SoCal beach towns  things are a little different.  I believe we are going to see submarkets within each city  bottom out at different times over the coming year. 

Our market is heavily influenced by financial constraints.  If Congress lets the conforming jumbo loan limit drop again to $625,000 from $729, 750  our entry level market ( $1M or less) will slide again once again.   This will also affect the mid-level markets from $1M to $1.9 as financing becomes harder to obtain with buyers having no option but a jumbo loan.

I also think we are going to see real issues for those who need to refinance jumbo loans who are not traditional W2 employees.   This will put a lot of pressure on the expensive markets.  If you are a 1099 employee with most of your income commission related you are going to have real problems obtaining financing with the demise of stated income loans.

 

1:11pm • #137

Hello, I strongly agree with you on all points adding that the number of real estate licensees will continue to drop.

Many of us, including me, are trying to stay positive AND at the same time we need to be realistic about the current state of affairs.

Our government is drowning us in debt as a nation and I don't think we (as professional real estate agents) have received many benefits.

Thank you for your comments.  I will share them with my team.

Rob Rosa
1:21pm • #138
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Jason - At least we have AR where we can discuss it all : )

John - Politicians are so short-sighted that manipulating markets is all they know.  They can't understand long term concepts.

Andrew - I like your "hot house" analogy.

Robert - Your mentor was right to suggest you concentrate on the sale of the day; give the best you have and then look for the next one. As for immigration reform, I doubt the administration or Congress will want to touch it for some time. With elections coming, it's too hot an issue.  Certainly they need to, but they've needed to do so for decades and it hasn't happened yet.

Jon - No lack of government interference, that's for certain.

JoAnn - Sounds as if we're in agreement to me : )

Ann - As I mentioned in an earlier comment, politicians cannot look beyond the next election.

 

 

1:25pm • #139

John,

   If you are painting w/a broad brush, I agree with your points. Great topic for discussion!

-Sean

1:31pm • #140
109,849 Points

I think that interest rates will increase sooner than 2012.  And the commercial market troubles will make what is and has occurred in the resi markets look tame by comparison.  I hope I'm wrong though.

1:38pm • #141

I started selling real estate 2  years ago and I continually wonder "what was I thinking!"  I will be homeless before things get better!

Tim
2:10pm • #142

With all due respect to blogs, your assertions would be more credible if they were backed up by facts, split into local markets across the nation. One good example of professional opinion comes from Jeff Otteau  ( www.otteau.com). Jeff is an expert in real estate here in New Jersey, and has been in our industry for decades. His opinions are sought by large home builders, large corprationa who worry about attracting employees inro our state, the financial community, state governmental agencies, and, finally residential and Commercial real estate brokers. Jeff has the housing data for NJ, and drills down to each county and township one by one; he then marries statistical data from the Department of Labor, and other governmental agences, and finally presents his forecasts and those issues that will bear on prices of homes in our market, short term and out 10 years. Some of your "guesses" as you call them, match Jeff's; the difference being he is not guessing.

My feeling is that it is not very responsible to throw out a bunch of opinions without facts just to create a juicy topic for a blog. Go back to the mat, find the real data, then support your concusions responsibly. Anything else is just a blog without substance. 

Bob
2:20pm • #143

John thank you for the great post... guess only time will tell.. :)

2:25pm • #144
508,711 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

John,

Congrats on the feature and I too agree with your major points but hope you are wrong also on many of them:)

2:27pm • #145
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Kaye - While CA has a much varied real estate climate, I do think the high end will continue to suffer.

Rob - It is difficult to remain positive when the U.S. is "drowning in debt."

Sean - Thanks for stopping by.

Stuart - Many agree that commercial will pose an even larger problem for banks and ultimately the economy.

Tim - There is opportunity; it just wears different clothes than in recent years.

Bob - The format of a blog doesn't allow for the kind of detail you're seeking.  I do research and come to conclusions based upon that research.  Regarding your "expert" who you say doesn't guess; that's all any of us can do. I call it a guess because that's what it is, just as the weatherman makes his predictions based upon accumulated data, all any of us can do is state our best opinion based upon certain assumptions. I certainly didn't state that my opinion was the only possible outcome; and anyone who does is either arrogant or misguided.

Theresa - Thanks for visiting.

Mike - I'm certainly not happy to reach these conclusions.

John & Janis - Does that mean we're both smart or something else?   : )

 

 

3:45pm • #147
243,682 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

while the interest rates are low still we are seeing a gradual increase which I think will continue.  I am sure and hope that there will be more of a standadization for how short sales are handled but that could mean more govenment intervention which has not proven to be a "good thing". Thanks for sticking your neck out - it is probably safe a a little longer   :^)   ///

3:51pm • #148

Inflation? With 10% unemployment, and no job growth? Until jobs start coming back, either because of tariffs, or trade wars, there will be no inflation. You can't have more dollars chasing the same number of goods and services, if there are fewer jobs, and the US has lost jobs over the last 10 years. So, unless you're crystal ball has massive job growth, which those newly employed folks can then go out and buy cars, and trucks and houses, to spur inflation, it won't happen.

3:51pm • #149

Hi John,

Interesting predictions.

I agree that we have not seen the worst or "bottom of the barrel" on the ajustable rate mortgages.  However, I'm starting to see many empty homes in this area being sold.  I can just imagine the steals/buys that the homeowners are receiving.  I think this may be the beginning of a reset with regards to the housing market.   It will be a slow , steady process, and geographical areas will play a big part as well.

P.S. love your blog,

Penelope

 

 

 

Penelope
3:53pm • #150
2 Featured Posts Attended Rain Camp

John,

I write for several of my local newspapers, and I just wanted to register my appreciation for your thoughts, and let you know that I've advertised your website in a couple of articles recently. 

This type of thinking helps us advise our clients more accurately, so hopefully, they will either make more or lose less money than they would otherwise.  Those who believe everything they hear in the news about recovery and stimulus plans are going to be disappointed.

I also think it's not a bad idea to become adept at consulting with our clients about non-traditional ways of closing real estate transactions as things get increasingly dicey.

In appreciation...

4:05pm • #151
147,462 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

John - Unfortunately, I agree with you.  I think it is going to be bleak for awhile.  The good to come out of this will be fewer agents and hopefully a more stable environment in which to purchase homes once again. 

4:43pm • #152

John-

 

The U.S. has 20% more supply than demand in everything. All boats rose on a false tide and now we are dealing with the aftermath.

 

 

 

5:03pm • #153

I tend to agree with you, I think we are heading back to 2002 prices in real estate. Here in California we have seen a steep drop but I don't think most areas have hit the bottom yet. We still have many more foreclosures and short sales to go. As a lender I think the stricter guidelines will help straighten this mess out but it will take years.

 

Dan

5:49pm • #154
158,541 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Great post! No lack of opinions on this one.

Remember...real estate is not only about Location but it is also Local.

In my market, we are seeing very strong buyer interest in the first time buyer price range. Many properties are selling with multiple offers. Good, well-priced properties are flying off the market. At the same time, we have seen the inventory of listings drop. Prices are being supported, if not driven up, by this demand. Question is: How long will it keep going?

I don't expect rapid price increases in our market, but I don't see a lot of downside, either. At least not in entry level housing. Prices at the upper levels...$1,000,000 and above...still need to come down to get in line with demand. Many sellers of more expensive houses still have not come to grip with the reality of the market. In addition, we expect to see more of those houses fall into short sale and REO status as the difficult economy slowly recovers.

REOs and short sales will be with us for a few more years.

John Juarez, REALTOR

Windermere Properties of the East Bay

John@CarlMedford.com

510-673-0686

6:10pm • #155
861,446 Points 76 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I agree that they'll try to keep interest rates as low as they can for quite a while.

6:25pm • #156
111,185 Points 1 Featured Post Attended Rain Camp

If the government does nothing to incentivize the consumer, and I am one of the public opinion that this will create more problems for my kids in years to come, then what can prop up the already stagnant economy.  I think it's time to dig in "for a long winter's nap".

6:52pm • #157
698,276 Points 35 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

John - I think you are right on target with all points.  Being in South Florida I wonder if it's going to take us a little longer to recover than other areas.

7:25pm • #158
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Kathleen - The banks don't seem inclined to streamline the short-sale process.

John - Inflation - Yes the potential exists, and numerous "experts" have expressed their concerns.  The sheer printing of more than $1 trillion "extra" dollars opens the door. The 1970s are an example of high inflation caused by the printing of too much money. If the economists and politicians feel the need for another stimulus to try to bring down unemployment prior the the next election, and the Fed feels that pressure, they could trigger inflation with further attempts at "kick-starting the economy.

If the Fed is slow to react and raise interest rates when necessary, that could spur inflation--Or, drops in the exchange rate could increase the prices of imported items.  And then we have the great unknown of oil.  Yes, inflation is a possibility, even in a down economy; and that's why the government is fighting to maintain control--on the one hand providing stimulus to the economy, and on the other, controlling inflation.  Gold, silver and oil traders are certainly concerned.

 

8:31pm • #159
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Penelope - While conditions vary widely, the entire country is suffering and housing will experience a sluggish recovery at best; and the recovery when it comes will hardly feel like one.

Dawn - I certainly appreciate your support!

Emily - Stabilization would certainly be nice.

Anonymous - But our boat is leaking and there aren't enough life vests.

Dan - The results may be worth our pain if we can learn from our mistakes--I'm not too confident.

John - Projections from Treasury are for several million more foreclosures.

Erica - They're fighting a battle on two fronts. We'll see how long interest rates can remain low.

Adan - And bring several blankets : )

Michelle - FL as other "sun" areas has suffered the most, with the exception of Michigan which has double the national jobless rate. And I agree that your area will take longer to recover.

8:42pm • #160

I think you hit the nail on the head! Much of what I have been saying for a couple years... Thanks for your honest approach and stright line stance...

Connie Wildasinn - WGA Real Estate, Long Beach, CA 90807

9:34pm • #161
865,493 Points 50 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp

John, I don't know that the government WANTS to keep inflation at bay.  The debt wouldn't look as bad if the dollar was only worth 10% as much...  And then there is the whole "only increase taxes on those making over $250k"...

9:56pm • #163
199,534 Points Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Unfortunately, I rather agree with your predictions.  I have told several that I expect the housing market to not be able to turn itself around too much before 2012.  There are some areas of the country that have remained stable and will continue to do so.  In speaking with many mortgage reps they have also agreed that interest rates should remain low for awhile.  Eventually, they will have to go up as our over the top national debt will eventually trickle down and bite us.  Taxes will be raised through this process  as it is inevitable.  I hope to never see the interest rates at 16-20% as they were in the mid to late 80's; however, for those of us who locked in low we will be sitting pretty.  It is our children who will have to pay for our mistakes.

10:15pm • #164
1,007,238 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

At some point, the Feds are going to have to raise the rates to battle inflation.  I'm hoping it won't be too soon or too much of a jolt.  Odd to realize that less than a decade ago, people though rates in the high 7's were a good rate.

If the banks won't flood the market, I think prices may stay fairly stable around here, at least in the lower end of the market.  There's been a lot of pent up demand with prices being so high for the past several years and a median price decline of 40% in the last couple of years.

11:22pm • #165
SEP
22
2009
1 Featured Post

I really do not know much about the local markets all over the country but out here in the East bay in Northern California, the market has heated up tremendously.I have a strong feeling that the upward price climb is not going to sustain but with such ridiculously low inventory, things might shift into a new gear next year. Hope it turns for the better for everyone.

12:24am • #166
193,448 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

John. I agree that interest rates and home prices will likely remain level. However, I DO believe that another stimulous will pass.

12:28am • #167

Wow there are a lot of comments & posts. Thank you for such a great, well-thought out post. I just had to say - Good job! So many journalists are not willing to tell the truth about what is going on - or their heads are in the sand... i don't know, but it is SO refreshing when people just tell the truth! Thanks!

1:26am • #168

I agree with the predictions. In Westchester County NY, we have at least 24 months of inventory in any of our towns. Many sellers are either unwilling to listen to the market and many buyers are still sitting on the sidelines with their money in hand waiting for the war to finish.

My only thought in all of this is that this is an excellent time to ask for better compensation.  Not necessarily more money, but the need to get paid as we work.

Few people I know can go several months without being paid, no less years. If the market is not going to consistently bring money into our coffers to survive and we're still going to work, I'd like to rethink this commission thing......

6:51am • #169
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Connie - Thanks for stopping by.

Lane - Long-term the government may welcome inflation as you describe, but for now, it would wreck what remains of the housing market.

Maria - Passing problems to future generations is what politicians do best!

Christine - When I purchased my current home, my rate was 7%, and I was happy to have such a "low" rate.

Rama - CA is an unusual market; hot in some areas, and sluggish in others, just like the rest of the country. Because of the drops in prices in some of the expensive areas, the current prices appear to be bargains.

Mark - I know there are many in Congress who support extending the housing tax credit, but public sentiment is against it.  We'll see which group prevails.

Melanie - Thanks for the support and nice comments.

Donna - As we come out of the recession I suspect that many aspects of real estate will change, some dramatically.

8:47am • #170

I agreee. Inflation: The 800 pound gorilla in the room everyone is avoiding ... for now. But it will come. This is what happens when the government monetizes its own debt. I believe we are witnessing the 1970s all over again. 

Allan Bataiff
1:04pm • #171
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Allan - Politicians memory is very short term. The potential for significant inflation is being created right now.

1:23pm • #172
1,028,367 Points 27 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

I don't want a "significant resurgence in prices" anytime soon. Prices were way too high, and artificial anyways. At the peak of the market back in May 2005, only 7% of San Diego households could afford to buy a median-priced home of $535,000. Now, fully 51% of San Diego households can afford to buy a median-priced home of $313,000. We need to get back to real estate being a place we buy to live in, raise a family in, retire in, and even die in, rather than an ATM to be cashed out every two years.

8:39pm • #173
SEP
23
2009
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Jim - I think you'll get your wish.

8:24am • #175
169,669 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

Not very good news but it is always good to be realistic.  I have clients often asking me for some sort of prediction and I shy away from it.  It is what it is and I love what I do - so I keep moving forward and the busiest this year than I ever have been.  I will keep these in mind however and glad to have read the post.

9:30pm • #176
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Cathy - Thanks for your comments. What we must keep in mind is that we're in control of our destiny.  Outside forces only dictate the game to be played; we decide which strategy to use.

9:37pm • #177
SEP
24
2009
550,743 Points 22 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

John, it will be interesting to see which points will prove out true.  Did you dust off your ouija board? Tip the Magic 8 ball for the correct answers?  We'll see I guess.  Good post.

5:03pm • #178

Good Afternoon - These are difficult times for most people in the United States and now a growing number of people around the world. A severe credit crisis has threatened our financial structure and has lead to the worst economic conditions in many generations. Over the years I have helped people and companies survive when times get tough. 

What is a credit crunch (crisis)? A credit crunch is a tightening of credit to borrowers who need money but are deemed to no longer to be credit worthy. This is usually brought on by the prompting of the Federal Reserve, the Treasury Dept. and the people actually monitoring and regulating the banks and investment institutions. This is usually done when there is the sense that the economy is moving too fast to be sustained. This occurred in mid 2000's, The Fed started to increase interest rates to cool the economy.  This impact became exacerbated by quickly rising gas and food prices.  Lenders began or were forced to change their lending requirements eliminating many previously acceptable borrowers. These actions were enough to stall housing prices and then housing sales. The crisis had begun. 

At this point it is not relevant that the housing prices got over heated in certain markets.  As housing prices eased increasingly nervous regulators and lenders began to further tighten leading requirements. Existing "mark to market" rules were the more rigorously applied. This practice of marking to market is particularly imprudent on a long-term asset that will likely return to value in a few years. This forced many lenders to drastically cut back their lending activities or cease lending altogether. The downward spiral had begun.

Between credit restriction and equity evaporation due to declining housing and stock markets approximately 70 trillion dollars was removed from the economy. The credit crisis, translates to a severe contraction in the money supply. Simply put, there is far less money traveling through the economy to keep the engine running.  Economic stimulus packages do not work.  Funds get applied to existing debt rather than new purchases. The government may discover that the bailout package will most likely meet a similar fate.

To be fair, there are few people today who have dealt with a credit crisis. The closest approximation is not the depression, but the S&L crisis of the late 1980's in the southwest region of the U.S. (most notably Texas).  Then as now, the government stepped in to cool an overheated market a localized credit crunch resulted, the regional economy virtually collapsed and the government had to step in to bailout the institutions in the region. The Resolution Trust was formed and the results were disastrous. By 1990 the entire U.S. economy was in recession and the region continued to feel the effects this "bailout" for the next twenty years.  

Forecast:

Inflation and therefore interest rates will not rise significantly for ten to fifteen years because:

1) With such a massive contraction in the money supply, there is a lack of money to fuel consumer purchasing and investment. The recent stimulus package is simply too small to replace the decline in the availability of money ($4 Trillion vs. $70 Trillion).

2)Demographics: due the recession, the baby boomers are out of the market and their children (now in their 20's) will not be in a position to purchase a home for ten years.

3)Boomers will reduce debt and save for retirement and the boometts will save for their first home.  The other age groups are not large enough to significantly impact the market and they to will reduce debt and save more.

Unemployment will remain high for at least 10 years and those people approaching retirement will not retire until 70 (or later).

1) Housing is a huge contributor to the economy and employment. With the foreclosure overhang, built inventory and lack of demand for houses, will translate to a continuation of the slump in house construction. The current construction rate is appox. 550,000 units annually; a rate not seen since the late 1940's when the population a third that of today.

Housing prices will see only small increases for the next 15 to 20 Years.

1) Current overhang will last 5 to 7 years.

2) Demograghics - babyboomers will be downsizing and net sellers.

3) Demograghics - babyboomettes are ready to buy.

4) Demographics - less than 22% of the U.S. Population is in family formation years.

5) Lack of immigration.

6) A massive decline in credit scores and therefore credit worthiness due to the recession.

This is the first recession were credit scores are relevant, this will act to greatly slow down the recovery.

1) Credit scores go down quickly and take years to recover.

2) General population the government do not understand the importance or impact.

3) Over half the adult population can not get a loan, thereby greatly reducing the available buying market.

4)On the airing of 60 Minutes Oct. 5/08, James Kroft interviewed Jim Grant the editor of Grant's Interest Rate Review. To better understand the reasons for the current credit crisis they were discussing the complexities of these mortgage backed securities and the mathematical complexities that were designed by mathematicians and physicists. Mr. Grant stated & quote;You can't model human behavior with math. end quote. This can be directly applied to the use of credit scores. (On a personal note, I would to find the idiot who invented the credit score, remember when the IQ score was relevant.)

Forecast - You will think this is bad news, the good news is that economy is bottoming out. The recovery will be long and flat, but money can be made in a stable economy when you know with what you are dealing.  

Jerry Janik
7:49pm • #179
SEP
25
2009
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Lyn - Of course not, I used my crystal ball!  That's the only legitimate way to predict the future : )

Jerry - Quite an evaluation, much of which I agree, especially the last statement. But the great unknown is still the world political climate, which has the potential to negate all predictions should we have a major terrorist attack or war in the Middle East.

7:25am • #180
SEP
28
2009
109,644 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Very interesting post, and comments.

I'll go out on a limb and make some 2010 predictions of my own.

Unfortunately, I think we're not going to see the nationwide bottom in terms of home prices for another year or so (mid-2010) though we're likely already passed the bottom in terms of home sales volume. (See the analysis of "A Tale of Two Bottoms" on Zillow Blog.)

The good news is that Zillow's data shows that some markets have actually already bottomed. Boston home values, for example, bottomed in January 2009 and has bounced back in the last few months. Los Angeles home values are approaching a bottom as well.  But other parts of the country like San Diego are still declining.

I think the big things to keep an eye on for 2010 are:

1. How high does unemployment go? If it peaks around 10% and flattens out there, then I think that's a good thing for housing. But if it keeps rising above 10%, we have more trouble on the way in residential real estate.

2. Can mortgage rates stay low, and what happens when the Fed stops buying mortgage backed securities? It's a very good thing that the Fed extended their program an extra few months, but what happens at the end of the 1st quarter when the Fed stops subsidizing mortgage rates? Deutsche Bank estimates that mortgage rates might rise a whole 100 bps when that happens, which is a scary thought. Right now we're seeing 5% rates on 30 year fixed mortgages, and 4% on 5/1 ARMs which is giving buyers extra firepower. 

3. What happens with the $8000 first time homebuyer tax credit? Does it get extended or expanded, or does it expire?  Zillow's analysis shows that extending the credit would be expensive, costing about $15 billion over the next 12 months - however, it will spark incremental sales. Zillow estimates about 334,000 incremental sales will occur if the $8000 tax credit is extended another year. With an extension, Zillow thinks home sales volume will rise 5% next year; without it, we think home sales volumes will drop 2%. - Unfortunately, a lot of the payouts to buyers will be wasted. In fact, Zillow estimates that 4 out of 5 first-time buyers in the next year would buy the home anyway even without the incentive. - Because so many of the subsidies would be wasted, it would cost about $44,000 for each incremental home purchase.

4. What happens with shadow inventory, both in terms of new foreclosures and new ordinary sellers. There are now 1.2 million mortgages that are 90 days delinquent and 200,000 more that are 1 year delinquent, where the foreclosure process hasn't yet begun. That's another 1.4 million potential foreclosures waiting in the wings. Regarding ordinary sellers sitting on the sidelines, we think that up to 1/3 of homeowners would like to sell their home if they saw a more normal selling environment. Take those two things together and there's an enormous amount of potential new inventory waiting on the sidelines.

 

I'm optimistic that 2010 will be a good year. After all, it is very unlikely to be worse than 2009!

5:55pm • #181
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Spencer - I would call that more of a blog than a comment, but that's okay.  And I don't have any substantial disagreement with any of your positions except the final statement. I just don't think we'll view 2010 as a good year, probably no worse than 2009, and if it's better, only marginally so.   

8:26pm • #182
OCT
22
2009

Great comments,  in my very unprofessional opinion, there's a lot of speculation regarding shadow inventory, since the fall of WAMU & Countrywide, I think from arms length the govenment will control the banks and not flood the market.  Yes, I strongly think there's a lot of back room deals going on.  I think you will also see lenders become landlords.  A lot of people disagree with the housing incentive however those that are responsible still don't want to see there house nest egg go down in value do they?  After all I live in San Jose what if I wanted to build a lot of equity, sell and buy for cash and retire in the middle of Kansas do I care if there's tax dollars supporting the market so I don't loose my nest egg?  I'm not saying there's a government sponsored housing bubble on the horizon, however, I don't see the flood of shadow inventory coming on the market. BTW I have investment property in Sacramento - Chinese are coming in by the droves paying cash - I have 2 duplexes and one fourplex I bought as REO's in 1999 there offer was cash however 1/3 less than what I wanted.  There are buying parcels galore!  Amazing.

Rich
11:02pm • #183
OCT
23
2009
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Rich - While I agree that the govt. and banks will do everything possible to keep from flooding the market with more foreclosures, I doubt they'll be completely successful. I do think we'll see a rise in foreclosures and that it will continue for some time. I hope your retirement plans work out.

6:45am • #184
OCT
28
2009
145,084 Points Outside Blog

Hi John,

You made this post a while back....and......seems that many of your predictions were 100% correct!

Check this out...more amunition for your next post:

http://timandjulieharris.com/2009/10/28/realtors-what-awaits-you-in-2010-real-estate-market-predictions/

Hope this helps!

Tim

11:56pm • #185
OCT
29
2009
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Tim & Julie - Thanks for the info.

8:06am • #186
NOV
08
2009
338,720 Points 9 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

John, Nice post! Predicting the future will always bring interest!  I tend to agree with your thoughts! Keep up the boldness!

9:19pm • #187
NOV
24
2009

Dear John,

As you can see from the time of this post, I am having a sleepless night! It is over my guilty feelings for a house that we just lost to a stronger offer. My husband and I are kind of in the market for our first house; and the reason that we have not been going full force about this mission is that we have been mainly coming up with the same predictions about the housing market as you have. However, the fact that we live in the DC metropolitan area, makes it a little harder for me to 100% trust my hunches! Could you read my description of our situation and let me know your opinion about my analogy?

•1.       I think if we keep renting for another 2 years, we will save up more down payment and will be afford to purchase a similar house with less mortgage and possibly on the same or even a more reasonable price. It would be a matter of having at least 50K more to put as down payment for the similar house; just calculating the difference in the interest to be paid on this amount blows my mind...I have convinced my husband that settling for a small house with the plan to upgrade in few years, would be an equivalent of paying lots of money to rent; yet on that cost, we will not even get the posh life style that a rented penthouse in a fancy neighborhood has to offer! Moreover, even if after 5 years, we end up renting out the town house and move onto purchasing a larger house, since our down payment will be kept locked in the first property, we will have to pay a heavy mortgage on the second one: would you agree that this plan B would not help my goal of having more money left off from our pay stubs to spend on the needs of the family we are planning to start?

•2.       I am on track to complete my graduate degree in fall 2010. My job prospective is expected to change for better: either I will land a better job than my current one, which in that case we may be even able to go a little more ambitious with our selections- or I will remain at my current pay rate: and that scenario as painful as it sounds, still takes us to the "being able to save up more down payment" conclusion, Ay?

•3.       The dream house in question (the one we lost!) was fairly expensive. Though it is located in a prime neighborhood, I still thought that we should get it only with a price so reasonable as to be difficult to beat even in 2010 or 2011. Do I sound unreasonably calculating to you? For some reason I don't think that one should get really caught up in the notion of "it's your home and not an investment!" too much... After all what makes my house a home is the love, harmony, peace of mind and financial liberty that could come with a right financial decision. As Paolo Coelho writes in Zahir: "freedom is not the absence of commitment, but is the ability to choose and commit myself- to what is best for me."

•4.       Do you think our undecided "Kind of in the market for our first house"status should remain the same for the remainder of 2009 and further or should it change to "out of market" until we save up more money for the down payment of a better house?

Many thanks for your insight.

Yasamin
4:35am • #188
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Yasamin - If only I could truly predict the market . . .  However, what I do is analyze the current conditions and what we know about the future--more foreclosures, trillions in public debt, government spending programs--and try to pick the "most likely" scenario from all the possibilities. 

While I cannot truly advise you--there are far too many variables of which I am unaware, I can tell you what I would do, given the limits of your description.

I would continue looking for the perfect house at a great deal, and if you find it, proceed with a purchase. If you do not find it, then, you'll have more down payment once you do. 

There are some facts we do know.  Interest rates will begin to climb once the government terminates its program to keep them low.  There will be more foreclosures due to the high default rate and number of homes "under water."

I would be vigilant and watch the market closely for signs of dramatic change.  When that occurs, prices could increase sharply; but I don't think it will happen in the short-term.  Just monitor prices, inventory, interest rates, and watch for "real" signs of an improving economy--significant numbers of job creations.

Good luck in your search and keep me informed of your progress.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7:47am • #189
DEC
26
2009
262,697 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router Called Shot Master

John - boy you sure seem to have gotten a lot of people thinking here.  My feeling is that although real estate really is local and we do seem to have bottomed out here in the Elk Grove area, the national economy will certainly have an effect on us.  We all do seem to be in for some challenging times still ahead but hopefully more stable than the past couple of years. 

9:48pm • #190
DEC
27
2009
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Lori & Bruce - I suspect there will be a few who say, "What recession?" in 2010, but the overall economy is still in for some rough times. Housing will be sluggish in most areas.

However, it's really all just a guess, as unexpected consequences always have the potential to create scenarios that none anticipated.  Hope your year is great.

11:20am • #191
106,412 Points

John,

A very pessimistic but realistic view of the immediate future!  I have to say I agree with it AND if we are wrong we will laugh all the to the bank!  Both the lender and the Realtor herds are getting thinned but overall it is a good thing.  January will see more folks leaving the business, as for me I am too old and too stubborn to leave.

5:37pm • #192
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

William - 2010 will be an interesting year, in many ways like nothing we've seen; but there will still be opportunities for those willing to work and be creative.

7:30pm • #193
DEC
28
2009

John,
Like Yasmin, my wife and I are also first time home buyers who were looking for a steal in the market. Our initial approach was to look for houses in the best of the school districts here in chicago suburbs. However, even with the market being where it is we are finding ourselves 50-70K short. we have now turned our focus to houses in "decent" school districts which cost nearly 80-90K less than the houses in the best school district.

Our realtor says that there might be an influx of new houses in January - February and we might find the prices to be cheaper (not short sales or foreclosures but just the fact that the number of available houses will increase). I am on the other hand hoping that by going for a moderate school district now we will be able to buy the same houses, we cant afford today, in 5 years (by having more saving and at least getting 50 K out of a 350K house in 5 years and allowing the better school district houses to appreciate by 80K-100K in the meantime. Are we being too optimistic about getting the 50K out of a house priced at 350K today, in 5 years?

 

Thanks for your guidance

Abhi
1:08am • #194
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Abhi - It's certainly possible to gain that much and more, but the key is to find the absolutely best house in the best possible location, and to buy it below market value. There are such deals, but you'll have to do your homework to find the right one.

I'd try to find a home that is priced below it's comparable neighbors--perhaps it has one fewer bath, or an older kitchen, or some other negative aspect. Then, over the 5 year period, you can "enhance" its features to make it more compatible with the neighborhood. 

If you haven't visited my website, www.TheHousingGuru.com, you should do so. I have tips for both buying and selling that may help you make the best decision.

Good luck. I hope you're able to reach your goals.

John

 

 

11:08am • #195
DEC
30
2009
153,250 Points Outside Blog

Hi John,

 

I agree with you. Excellent job. Happy New year.

 

Best - Sash

11:48am • #196
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Sash - Thanks for visiting. Hope your new year is great!

1:39pm • #197
JAN
25
2010

I think this is too pessimistic post. I have been looking to purchase a home for last 2 yrs, and now I learned that prices are improving slowly, especially in good communities with good schools.

Interest rates being at damn low (3.5% for 5/1 ARM) makes the affordability almost twice now comapred to few years ago when similar loan was 5+ %.

I have seen the real estate has always been a good investment for decades with sround 3% appreciation, except the last few years (2004-2007), within such short duration prices almost doubles, which has to be corrected. And I guess we are seeing such a rapid correction now since 2008.

I belive the correction will be over soon (by summer of 2010) and prices will be steady or might even see uptrend.

These are just my opinions and we will see what happen in an year from now.

America has talent to survive. We will find a solution and overcome all this troubles soon.

Bob
10:21am • #198
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Bob - I'd prefer to believe that we're on the road to recovery, but I don't see any indication that such is the case.  Certainly there are great buys out there for those who need to purchase a home, but purchasers must understand that the kind of returns we experienced during the past decade won't return any time soon. 

I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but a realist; and I want consumers to be aware of true economic conditions in order to make prudent choices.

11:00am • #199
FEB
26
2010

great post!

1:16am • #200

thanks for sharing your insight john! even if they are just "guesses" :-)

any new or edited predictions now that were are "in the future" from your original post? (for example, buyer credit was extended, new program with non-1st time buyers added and still no relief in unemployment)

starryeyes83
1:19am • #201
MAR
21
2010

For the most part i have to say i agree with your thinking , however id like to add a few points . for the most part you will notice that most everyone posting on here is in somewhat of agreement that things will stay flat . i do not think for a second that the federal reserve can force intrest rates to stay low . but i do believe that if there is no demand for money that rates will stay low . the realestate market normally gives us 2 to 5 percent gains on average per year . to see the market just become a normal market would imply a flat to stable market in future years . also with everyone in agreement on this page for the most part im going to conclude that the worst is behind us . something i noticed when looking at homes for sale in early jan 2010 in southern oregon is that almost all homes that were vacant and falling into forcloser were owned by out of state owners.This information lead me to dig further and purchase a home , and while it was 8th home i have owned since i had sold my last home in mid 2005 i was able to qualify for the 1st time home owner tax credit . also the 20 percent down payment program is not at it appears . i purchased a 3000 sq ft home in need of much repairs ( i have done this before ) for 100,000 with only 10 percent down .the total cost including closing was just over 12000 and i get 8000 back ( which has already gone into much of the repairs , more to go obviously ) . the bottom line is simple , for those who are looking there is plenty to find yet the best deals are now gone even with prices continuing lower .why do i say this ??? because you are going to loose your ability to make offers substantially below the asking price now .

joe
6:59pm • #202
MAR
31
2010

Ironically, reading your post is like taking a breath of fresh air.  Finally, someone that is not bios on the housing market to voices their opinion.   The topic is hard to chew & even tougher to swallow, but I think that your post hits the spot.  As painful as it is to absorb, I agree with you.  My husband and I are looking to buy our  first home cash.  While I am looking forward to purchase my home for a historical low price,  I am also saddened by the harsh economic turn and dip in the housing market.  My heart goes out to most of those that have lost equity in their home.   Some people are victims of bad timing.  Although I am not a home owner, I have suffered in other areas.  (No need to go into detail.)   We live in Phoenix, AZ and homes have been selling fast out here.  Most sell over the listing price, I believe due to the Tax credit & extension.  Although they have sold over listing price, many are still -50% in price before the downturn.   Also, what most people don't take into consideration is that the people "taking advantage" of the first time home buyers tax credit are people that were looking to buy homes in the near future anyway.  The tax credit gave them that push.  Once the tax credit ends, homes prices will most likely fall.  The exact ?% is unknown, all depending on the area. The demand of people looking to buy houses will drop.  No new hope for jobs or any other positive economical change is detected.  Investors will satisfy their hunger.  More homes will be pushed on the market, supply without demand. I just hope that the market stabilizes sooner than you predict.  These are my thoughts.  God Bless America. :)(:

Whitney M.
12:46pm • #203

Joe-  I kindly disagree with your last statement, "the bottom line..."  I think that it depends on the area.  Also, out here in AZ homes have been selling over the listing price since the drop.  Because banks list them lower to encourage more potential buyers, also encourages bidding wars...especially since the tax credit refund was introduced and extended.  I think that there will be many more good buys, most likely better buys. The banks are sitting on many homes that they have not yet listed on the market & many more ppl are underwater on payments.  There are programs to help, but they only help a very small percentage of those facing foreclosure.  Based on a few things that I've learned & witnessed mixed with  some of my personal thoughts.

Whitney M.
1:09pm • #204
APR
16
2010

I am not a realtor, lender nor analyst.  I am just a common Joe who lost his home and job to the recession.  However I feel that the housing market will flurish again in the next 2-3 years.  There is only so much the financial companies and government can absorb.  I feel until the job market regains momentum and puts the money back into the power of this country "THE CONSUMER" nothing will change.  There is nothing to sell if there is no one to buy it!!  I feel there will be great programs available to home buyers in the near future to help remove the burdon of the real estate sitting dorment in this country.  They have to get this loss off our books in order to thrive.  I might be wrong but i feel strongly on this.

James
11:53am • #205
MAY
30
2010

I also think your predictions are spot on if possibly too optimistic. Also enjoyed reading the many well researched responses above. I left real estate this year because I could not live with having to tell my sellers they could not possibly break even and having to tell my buyers that I do not believe the market has hit bottom. The huge middle class loss in equity will effect economic growth for decades. With staggering government and private debt the politicians have little choice but to assuage the masses by inflating the currency (remember folks the definition of inflation is printing dollars. Higher prices are a byproduct of currency inflation) and paying off debt with cheap dollars. The problem is we are rapidly becoming a 2nd rate economy and they probably can't get away with it this time. With the Fed rate at zero, government economy manipulators have run out of bullets. The Fed will not need to respond to an "overheated" economy anytime soon, but rates will rise in response to debt monetization, inflation.

I've got a 20 year old son with a pregnant wife, a dog, 3 cats, a 4.0 grade average at NIU, a job at Walmart and a very modest house I helped him buy last year. I really hope I'm wrong about this economy.

Greg
5:00pm • #206
105,034 Points

I'm more and more pessimistic.  I see really bad stuff going on in DC and it scares me for the people of this country.  It's not pretty, and something is going on below the surface.   Our president is an actor...something else is running things and he's so narcisistic he thinks he's in charge.  There's a book called "Evil Genes  Why Rome Fell, Hitler Rose, Enron Failed and My Sister Stole My Mother's Boyfriend" by Barbara Oakley PHD.  Explains a lot.

What's the best way to make people dependent on you?  Make them weak...knock them to their knees and be there with a "helping" hand.  Then you own them.  I recommend everyone prepare for the worse case senario.  It looks to me like the government is deliberately trying to ruin us all.

5:53pm • #207
AUG
25
2010

John,

 

Any thoughts on the condo market specifically in Florida?  I am finding beautiful units that sold upwards of $300,000 4 years ago be sold for $50,000 - $75,000.  Financing is near impossible but cash buyers (which I am) seem to be cleaning up.

 

I'm trying to use my IRA to gain the most over the next 15-20 years and the 0.25% the bank is paying is a crime.

 

Thank you and great post!

 

Steve

Steve
4:02pm • #208
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Steve - I'll have the 2011 version ready within the next few weeks.  And yes, cash is King!  I wouldn't be afraid of well-researched properties in FL.

5:57pm • #209
SEP
23
2010
611,295 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Gee I wish I had read this a year ago !!!!!!!!! I would have taken the year off and stayed at our beach house !!!!!!!!!!

9:06am • #210
NOV
20
2010

Hello John,

I have really enjoyed reading your blog. I have a question regarding future housing in down town Los Angeles.  Any thoughts on when it might stabalize and return to where it was three years ago. I bought my condo for $550,000 at the height, now it's worth $350,000.  My income has dropped significatly, so in the end making my payments are tough. My question is, if I keep holding on giving all I have to keep it, when would I, if ever, possibly see my investment begin to build equity? Just to add to this I owe $150,000 more then the worth now. Basically I am really trying to decide whether staying here is just throwing good hard earned money away that I will never see again, whether it's worth holding on through the storm.

Any thoughts would be highly appreciated,

all the best,

Mike

mike
12:06pm • #211
421,594 Points 76 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Mike - I'm afraid it will be some time before you see a return to the values of 3 years ago; and even then, it will be due to inflation, so you will not have benefited. For most of us the values lost are gone forever. While prices will, at some point, recover, it will not be due to a sudden increase in the home's value, but a decrease in the value of the dollar.

11:48pm • #212

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John Mulkey, Housing Guru

Waleska, GA

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