Real Estate Blog - Web 2.0 is HERE! Let's Make Some Noise For Transparency in Regards to REO Listings!

Home : Blogs : Renee Burrows - Las Vegas NV Valley - Homes For Sale - SRES - SRS - AHWD - ABR : Nevada Real Estate >> Las Vegas Real Estate Specialist

Web 2.0 is HERE! Let's Make Some Noise For Transparency in Regards to REO Listings!

Hello Banks, Noteholders, Servicing Companies, et al, etc, so on and so forth!

Today I want to let you know what is going on in the Las Vegas Area REO market. I am sure to get big REO listers very upset with me by writing an argument on WHY you should make the process easier to submit offers ONLINE for buyer's agents.

I get that our inventory situation is tight here in the valley. I get you have your hands tied with mediation, short sales, tenants w/ new tenant law and I get that you are releasing them as quick as you can. I get buyer interest is at an all time high and lots and lots of offers are being received. I AM NOT GETTING PROOF THAT MY OFFERS ARE GETTING SUBMITTED.

I want to clarify that NOT ALL REO agents are bad. I want to clarify that I DO NOT want their job. I get it. What I DON'T GET is that sometimes they make up extra rules and loop holes to get offers submitted. I even asked a PAS lister to show me proof (per PAS) that my THREE offers were submitted to them. Since July for one property (that keeps falling out of escrow.)

Let me tell you that little story: Submitted late July, went through all the hoops, wrote 10K over list (and clean, which means no seller paid concessions), waived appraisal, submitted with our Wells PA letter. Fell out of escrow late August (when my buyers would have been closing aka "PERFORMING") and getting a non-performing asset off of their books. Resubmitted the offer and was sent an email that another contract was accepted on September 3rd. Well the very next day there was a price reduction on this property by $10K. I call PAS FURIOUS. Our offer was now $20K higher! (if you want percentages over list price we are at 20% now) They told me to request screen shots of submission. I asked and resubmitted the offer immediately. Never got the screen shots that they submitted it but another big fat rejection letter.

I am fine with that, I really am, because this is what I (and other beyond frustrated buyer's agents in this market) are up against.

Let's get back to hoop jumping. List agents create their own rules for submitting offers. In many instances we have to jump through extra hoops to get our offer submitted because extra rules were made up by the list agents. Check out this (as of right now) very public post about extra hoop jumping written by an REO lister..

Now as an REO asset manager, where does that leave you when you are trying to solicit the highest and best offer when someone has to deliver an EMD check to be cashed JUST to submit an offer? You don't even have an offer accepted as of yet.

List agents lose our offers regularly and don't even acknowledge them in many instances. This has turned into an "us vs them" proposition. There are some buyer's agents who have one deal going on and will call and email constantly. Annoying, I apologize for them in advance, I am not them. My procedure is to fax and then scan and email and here is what I say in my email:

"I faxed over this offer this morning but always scan and follow up with an email as I understand all REO agents are swamped these days! I do this for back-up in case the fax transmission is bad. Please let me know that you are in receipt (email is fine, no phone call back necessary) and if you need anything else we will do our best to get it to you ASAP. Buyers Wells PQ does expire today. She is fully qualified through two directs (BOA and Wells) plus ING. She can go FHA or Conventional and she is going Conventional on this one with 25% down plus waiving the appraisal contingency. I have also attached a proof of funds for this to show they can pay over and above contracted price for a low appraisal. If you need an updated proof of funds just let me know! Have a great day!"

I have a hard time getting someone to press "reply" to that email and say "we are in receipt". So I repeat in 24 hours. Wash, rinse and repeat.

Some agents have lots of listings. Like hundreds and maybe even the big players get close to 1000 in any given phase from pre-market to almost closing. I am not jealous, I do respect them and revert back to paragraph 3 if you think I am jealous of all those listings. This is just an open letter on HOW we can make this easier for everyone involved:

We live in 2009, let's change the process and add some more transparency to the process! HELLO?!?! While Ocwen is not my favorite servicer, they are at LEAST in this century and they allow us, the buyer's agents, to submit our offers online. Allow a place for all of your required documents (EMD copy, Proof of Funds, Bank Specific Pre-Approval letter, Offer, Net Calculations) and shoot us an automatic email saying you are in receipt. This will definitely free up some time for those overworked REO list agents and their gatekeepers assistants. Buyers are also allowed to submit their offers directly online without agent representation with Ocwen. Yes, I make less money by allowing buyers to submit directly but many will still hire agents because they don't understand offer writing and submission guidelines. This will also allow the companies to net more by avoiding commission payments to agents. When the mandatory marketing period ends for the listing, pick the top 3-5 highest netting offers for the list agents to eyeball and then make a decision from there. At least we (and our clients) will know our offers are submitted directly the asset management company.. we avoid the extra hoops that the list agents make up..and you can get more offers and net more for your asset!

In uber hard hit areas like mine, Las Vegas Area, large servicers NEED to hire ONE OR TWO persons to manage utilities and repairs and maintence/upkeep. Get this out of the list agents hands! When we get an REO escrow, we have to go back and make sure utilities are on (I show so dang many that I usually can't remember if they are on or not.) 50% of the time they will not be on and they need to be on for appraisal (if a financed buyer) or inspections. This effects your bottom line in HOLDING COSTS. We are ready to roll with due diligence when we get an acceptance but, once again, we are set up with failure because one or more of the utilities are off. We cannot proceed with inspections and appraisal until they are on. Also, appraisals are ridiculous and having a couple of preferred contractors/handymen in your market will make the process quicker. I get it, the buyers are conveying an as-is property. Sometimes the appraiser will come up with a bunch of silly little repairs that are necessary to close. Sometimes these repairs will cost you very minimal amounts. Having your own systems ready also gets you to close quicker.

Send out surveys. PLEASE. Survey the crap out of us. Survey the list agent, buyer's agent, lender involved, title company, etc! Ask us what it was like to submit that offer to the list agent, ask us if we ever even got to talk to the list agent, ask us what response times were, ask us about the title company YOU chose. You may be shocked. I know, some buyer's agents are just annoyed with the process (like me) and may be unfair. If you survey us constantly and those of us that can write fair assessments of the escrow and way we were treated, you will find some consistent responses to what we are dealing with.

Grade the buyer's agents. When you create that website PLEASE grade us. Make us create our user names by our license numbers - not by emails - that way no one can "game" the grading system. Grade us by strength of offer, list price vs offer price, amount of contingencies, amount of concessions requested, close ratio, etc. Maybe some of us can have an edge over the fishers in the system.

It's broke, kids, and it needs to be fixed. I am requesting all buyer's agents who are FED UP AND SICK OF THE SYSTEM to REBLOG this post, print it and mail it to their favorite servicing companies and their representatives in congress OR write your own IN THE NEXT WEEK!!! We are mad as hell and we have no choice but to play the games & take it! (after all they control our inventory). We want TRANSPARENCY!

Thanks and have a great day!

PS here are some resources:

Indymac Quick Response Guarantee (FYI, they are not requiring PAs with Prospect Mtg Anymore) If you don't have a response from Indy within 72 hours call: 877-885-1624

Bank of America

Aurora Loan Servicing

PAS REO (Wells)

America's Servicing Company (Wells)

Fannie Mae

Freddie Mac

Contact Your Elected OFFICIALS!

TWEET Your Elected Officials!

Blog Disclaimer Important Notice

At Home with Diversity

Search Las Vegas Homes For Sale and Rental Homes Right Here!

Posted by Renee Burrows - Las Vegas NV Valley - Homes For Sale - SRES - SRS - AHWD - ABR on 09/22/2009 07:58 PM

Comments (61)

Foreclosures in the Real Estate Market Channel

Originally posted at: Nevada Real Estate >> Las Vegas Real Estate Specialist: Web 2.0 is HERE! Let's Make Some Noise For Transparency in Regards to REO Listings!

This post has been included in Nevada Information Clark County, NV Information Las Vegas, NV Information
Post is included in group: REO
Post is included in group: Las Vegas, NV Area Real Estate Professionals
Post is included in group: Las Vegas Foreclosures - Homes, High-Rises-Condos
Post is included in group: Foreclosure Talk
Post is included in group: Foreclosure Education Forum

61 Comments on Web 2.0 is HERE! Let's Make Some Noise For Transparency in Regards to REO Listings!

SEP

I am not clear on the paragraph relating to automatic submissions as to your opinion regarding the implications of servicers allowing any buyer or buyer agent to submit. It seems that the listing agent is pretty much extinct in this type of scenario. I am not interested in listing REOs but I am just asking... Katerina

Katerina: Yes, Ocwen allows us to upload the offer directly to them and net it out. No shenanigans allowed. They see it.

The list agent's role is more of a transactional or flat fee broker.

Renee-I am with you on this. We need things automated and online! Same with short sales!

Wow, Renee! Pretty powerful stuff! You are SO right. Absolutely frustrating! I have recently dealt with Fannie Mae and it was the most frustrating deal. Offer response timelines, counter offers (with nothing back in writing, of course), P&S timelines, all to no avail.... I hope your voice is heard loud and clear! Congrats on the feature!

I don't get it either. Anyone can submit the offer? What does the listing agent do? And how do you know how to submit an offer online. Of course this could be like the HUD foreclosures are turned in by anyone. Is that what you mean.

Midori: YEP, sick of the dual agency short sale agents here too. If these noteholders could just see what they could get if their listings were handled with care and skill.

Carolyn: Seriously and how much are we set up for failure during these transactions. Everything delayed because utilities are off (and MOST REO require them to be on prior to listing) and our buyers get penalized because they can't close on time. FUN!

Barbara: YES. Here is Ocwen's site (nothing is available in Vegas right now.) Anyone can submit and the asset managers get to see the offers themselves. What a concept ?!?!?! Listing agent is neutered to a paper shuffler and escrow mediator between buyer's agent and asset manager - they become a glorified transaction coordinator and are really just needed for MLS services.

Renee - Your article gave me a great idea about a problem I am having with Ixis Real Estate Capital Markets Inc. so I put it up on Twitter. I also tried contacting them through Spoke.com today. Thanks for the great tips.

Great Post!! Many of the REO Listing agents are creating more of a bottleneck and choking the life out of the market. We don't know if they have submitted offers to the banks. Or what I've seen in one of the affiliate markets I have ownership in is "Holding & Submitting 25 offers at once" Give me a break! Submit the offers in a timely manner and lets get the market moving.

Hi Renee,

I have been in real estate for years but just got through my first experience with a bank owned property. When I read your post I thought, OMGoodness that is just what happened to me. My buyer had expressed an interest in a property and I notified the listing broker that we would like to put in an offer. She said that it was tied up in litigation and that they had had many offers. Then a couple of days later they dropped the price and so I called again and we put in an offer well over asking. Had to keep emailing and calling to make sure she received it. I asked to be present when she presented the offer to the bank. Nothing. Then I finally get an email saying the offer had been rejected but thanks for looking at her property. Certainly, there may have been better offers but at least it would have been nice to have some communication.

Renee, I gotta tell you, after reading this, I am thrilled that our market isn't REO, foreclosure and short sale heavy like yours is. Luckily, we can avoid most of those listings and work with real sellers. And even when we do work with foreclosures, I don't have near the problems you guys do. Wow!

Great post!

Hi Renee, Great post.

I have one thing to add to your suggestion list. I recommend that the lenders set up a phone number, email address or website where the public can notify them of vandalism and break-in problems at REO properties. The inventory is often unlisted for a while after the bank takes back the property, and there is no one to contact.

A friend of the family contacted me yesterday about an abandoned home on her block. The owners moved out a few months ago, and squatters have just moved in.

I checked the MLS and the property was not listed. I checked the online Recorder of Deeds and Countrywide (BoA) has taken back the property.

I checked the BoA website and there was no way to contact BoA to report the problems at the bank owned properties.

The friend of the family called the BoA 800 number but she could not get into their system without a social security number that is linked to a mortgage. She also contacted a local BoA branch and the manager had no idea who to call at BoA to about the squatters.

The police have been called, but the police can't take any action unless the owner (BoA) makes a complaint that the people are trespassing. The precint captian has also been contacted

If these squatters steal the copper piping, cabinets and applainces, it is likely that this two flat will decline in value from about $250K to about $50K in a week or so. The water is still on, so stealing the pipes will also lead to stading water the mold damage. This is not good for the neighborhood and it is not good for BoA.

Do you have problems with squatters and scavengers in your area?

Renee: Whatever happened to courtesy, professionalism, respect and just plain doing your job? As an REO listing agent myself, I am well aware of the frustrations in dealing with bank owned properties. There is so much that can go wrong with these offers. It's important for the listing agent to be extremely detailed in keeping track of all offers. Each offer should be acknowledged with nothing less than an email and most probably a fax is in order. There are ways in almost every on-line REO system to print out the offer submittal form. Print it out or save it and email or fax it to the selling agent. It only takes 5 extra minutes and provides that agent with proof of the offer having been submitted. This does a number of things for you as the listing agent. One of the main things is that is prevents the selling agent from accusing the listing agent of not submitting the offer. Does the term "lawsuit" mean anything? I, personally, do not want to put my license in jeapordy by being lazy. It's simply a matter of being the consummate professional.

I have run across a few. They think that there are different rules for them than for the rest of us. There are a few that are pretty good, too... But I think they are a rarity.

Hi Renee - I agree that streamlining and online processes make things easier. My current broker lists all HUD homes using an online auction system. Some of you may already be aware of these:

www.southwestalliance.com
www.bidselect.com

I have worked through this process, and my buyers have been pleased. Documents are all pre-filled with the information you have entered online. You just have to print and get signatures. Once your offer is submitted and the bidding has closed, you can see the progression and status.

Great post Renee and full of some serious information, congrats on the gold also!

David: Doncha just love social networking :)

Eric: In their defense, many do have mandatory marketing times. This needs to be transparent too! It does seem like August is the month that many REO asset managers can't make a decision. I had two different offers in for two different clients and no one could produce an answer for three + weeks. This happened same month last year for me.

Mary: In the information age, communication seems to be a concept many fail to grasp.

Bob: Consider yourself lucky that you don't have to work in hell this very unique market.

Laurie: EXCELLENT SUGGESTION! This will be tweeted out to our elected representatives tomorrow so I am GLAD you took the time to post that thoughtful comment!

Barb: I SO appreciate you weighing in and not lambasting me. Very few bad apples are going to ruin it for the rest of the bunch, it's sad. I wish some agents could take 30 seconds to reply that they are in receipt!

Lane: We are going to have SOOO many new rules/laws added to our licensing just because of a few over the next several years. I just know it!

Valarie: I have heard of bidselect but not the other and THANKS for sharing that!

Not that we have that many REOs around here but we too run into this all the time. It's beyond frustrating. Then we have to keep harassing the LAs to find out what is going on. I would love to be able to submit offers directly online just like we do when we submit HUD bids. Simple easy, we get confirmation number etc. Listing agents still work their share. We are also seeing more mistakes on MLS about # of beds, baths etc. on these types of listings. I'm in for some fresh air! Lots of it. ~Rita

Renee... what a wonderful post.. It is a shame that the system does not work better than it does. Also, REO listing agents need to respone with at least a "Got It" or something.

BTW.. Love the new photo :)

SEP

Renee: You would think that with the volume that they are experiencing that they would try to stream lime their system ~ cut out some of the steps. We are doing one right now and are into the third week. The buyer wants to start looking at more houses and the listing agents says we are close~ who knows!

I too have a difficult time getting a confirmation of an offer being submitted on REOs. And what do you say to your buyers, "I don't know what is going on with your offer"? I understand that REO listing agents are often overwhelmed with many offers on just one property. But they chose to list the property and all that comes with that, including talking with buyers' agents.

Renee, thanks for putting this out there. While there are many ethical REO listers out there, I believe there are just as many that are not. An online offer submission system would take care of many of the problems that we are experiencing today. It would also free up a lot of time for the listers who need to input 45 offers on one house, or pay someone to do it.

Heed Renee's advice banks. Let's work smarter here!

Renee, I can't argue that listing agents aren't all doing what they're supposed to be doing, and for those that aren't, automatic submissions are a great idea...EXCEPT...having had to chase an offer down for a bank (we were absolutely fine with doing so), the "buyer" had no idea that the property wasn't acceptable for a minimum down FHA loan, or any conventional loan (it was cash only), had no idea that the transaction would proceed on an "as is" basis, and was (it seems) just dinking around submitting offers- no seriousness. That is the LAST thing that asset managers need, and the last thing that we wanted: wasted time.

I don't know what the answer is for listing companies that are treating hard working buyers agents like dirt- it certainly has to stop- but I take issue with your idea ONLY because of the recent four days wasted trying to contact and straighten out a recent on line submission. I'm not sure that diligent REO agents would take issue with this method, because we've looked at one another a few times with good Realtors, and said, "It would be GREAT if this one goes through- this Realtor knows what they're doing"- but then, we submit and respond/provide receipt for ALL offers until the asset company says, "enough." I can't tell you how much time is spent explaining to some Realtors how no, this is bank owned, NOT a short sale; yes, they want a state approved offer form, not scratch from your office, etc.- not bad things, but not things that an asset manager wants/has time to be explaining.

What also makes me nervous is that a set up such as this might encourage the BAD listing companies to further step up "pre marketing" efforts that get the property gone before Realtors even have a chance to better the offer with others- most asset companies respect accepted offers, and work with them until a kink arises that would create a cancellation (BA or lawyers NOT comprehending as is, and pestering the sellers lawyers or AM to make adjustments after the fact- THESE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE TIME TO EDUCATE)- for those of us that submit everything, and provide receipt to buyers agents until we are told "no more offers", it might create even more havoc.

*I absolutely understand the vitriol directed to some listing companies. There's one here that puts a photo of what looks to be a dump on the MLS, but when you go to their site, the property is MUCH better looking- the photo in the MLS is intentionally ugly- and contains only one photo. Lots of games- the few bad apples make it stink for the rest of us.

Renee,

On a Freddie Mac listing I have, I'm guilty of not having the utilities on! Not my choice, power lines to the home were downed by ice (last November) and the process is never ending. Got 3 offers within the first 10 days - all promptly acknowledged and transmitted properly.

Despite my confession, I still agree with your points!

EXCEPT, RENEE: "Listing agent is neutered to a paper shuffler and escrow mediator between BA and asset manager- they become a glorified transaction coordinator and are really just needed for MLS services"...

With all due respect, isn't that a bit passive/aggressive (in light of the fact that you don't want their job)? Have you seen the task lists associated with bank owned properties, prior to them hitting the market? I'm all for understanding complaints, but that description is inappropriate, in light of the additional work involved with bank owned that most Realtors aren't aware even occurs...

I know I'm sticking my neck out with this one, but fairness/respect for those that do a whole lot more for their asset companies deserve better.

Rita: To me it is about servicing the clients (in this instance the sellers) rather than turning and burning inventory to pray that you make a profit.

Roland: The process does stink and thanks :)

Sandy: I would continue to look with that buyer until escrow is opened!

Alma: Thank you!

Maggie: Working smarter and systemizing will definitely net more in the long run. Whether it is this solution or another one that may be better!

Irene: That is something that is a little bit more out of control than just turning on utilities so you are forgiven. It's like testing the mechanics of a kitchen that is missing, you just can't do it. I also understand that sometimes water cannot be turned on because there is a bad leak, etc. Those are all cash homes and one of the things "I get" in this crazy world!

Laurie: They do deserve fairness and respect and I do give it to them. I have done REO listings myself and that is WHY I don't want them. (Pre-Market, rekeys, cash for keys, bpos, a-hole buyers agents mentioned in post rant, asset managers who can't make a quick decision, trash outs, utilities on, repairs, etc etc etc is the reason.)

A lot is thrown on their desk to do and there are some good ones out there with great systems who can handle their workload. Many do not have systems or have weak systems or are just plain the rotten apple and out there to "play the game." My comments *may* sound passive aggressive but most REO agents bitch about how hard they have it and if a number is thrown out there they all complain that they net 1 Karat banana per transaction after the deal is done. I do get it. I say take some of this stuff off their hands (rekeys, trashouts, cash for keys, repairs and utilities) and maybe someone can press "reply" in an email so we can have human contact and know our offer was received. If the process can be streamlined into a flat fee structure (of let's say 2 Karat bananas) and they only have to coordinate listing and marketing of the property and the escrow, they will easily net their 1 Karat banana that they scoff about (they really net more from buyer's agents doing deals from the sign calls anyways!)

I am just frustrated and putting a system together like HUD or Ocwen by the larger servicers could probably do more for their assets in the long run (as far as balance sheets go) than relying on a system that is broke. I want a flipping screen shot that my offer was submitted (like Barb mentioned above) and can't seem to get one. I want to see that my offer was netted right to the noteholder. What's next besides running around saying "it is what it is" like many of us have the last 2 1/2 years and letting it be? Go to a class filled with Realtors in this city at our board, we have had it. Is the next stop the ethics committee on the board or division? Quite frankly there is not enough time in the day for that but it is appearing to be the only option.

They could at the very least survey the buyer's agents in the end to filter out consistencies with poor management of listings.

I only wish we could email those contracts in for short sales. I can with VERY FEW banks, so my assistant stands at the fax machine and off go 30-40 pages.

yes most of the REO Realtors have their own systems to handle the flood of paper work and offers.

My favorite is: " Don't call us, we will call you."

Don't forget being present for evictions...uggh. Thank you for the clarification- I follow your posts, so knew that YOU knew. I don't know what the answer is, but believe that capable buyers agents are getting screwed often enough to warrant a watchful eye SOMEWHERE over the process overall.

There are clear inherent dangers involved with that process. Are these lenders leaning towards cutting us out altogether? Internet marketing has been driving home sales for a considerable period of time now. Can you consider the multitude of possibilities that we could also face?

When possible, hand deliver and if not possible, stay dilligent, and document.

Good luck ~ brad

Renee, forget the featured post. You get 10 Stars for this one lil sis! The system does need to be fixed, and it's nation wide. We all see other agents across the country with the same problem and something needs to be done to correct the situation.

You are on target on this. InFlorida it is the same in many cases. One of our agents is assisting first time buyer and attempting to get the $8,000 credit and we do not even know if the offers are submitted or reviewed by the banks. Maybe we should take the stand "we are mad as hell and not going to take it anymore" and let the banks go under until they start playing by a new set of rules. The tail is wagging the dog meaning the banks are not able to solve the problem. Realtors can make the sales and clean up this mess. Transparancy is needed.

Renee

Hi! I am also in Las Vegas and am the team leader and handle all the short sale listings. I have a couple of buyers agents that are feeling the exact same frustrations as you so I understand that aspect. (Often they ask me to call on their behalf and get a status from an "unreachable" listing agent). I answer my phone and emails 7 days a week and I too am appalled that an agent in our industry wouldn't have a system to respond to all inquiries and offers immediately.

I am not defending poor business practices but I want to speak from a listing agents point of view - Frequently the offers that I receive on my listings are so unprofessional and poorly written that many times I have to contact the buyers agent and ask them to fill in the blanks. I had one last week that we accepted the offer and when the BA returned the short sale addendums she included another addendum that clarified "a small oversight" - she forgot the $6500 in closing costs the buyer was requesting! I received a call the other day from an agent asking me about his offer - I never got it and he never sent me an email or phone call stating he was sending one so his buyers lost out because of his ineptness. The "preapproval" letters I receive are a joke! I had two FULLY APPROVED short sales that were just days away from closing that both cancelled because all of a sudden the buyers can't qualify. Now we have taken the property off the market for months, ordered HOA demands and sellers packets and the buyer can't qualify. There is absolutely NO recourse for the seller other than to return the EMD and start over with a new buyer. As you know when a deal cancels we just lost that income but we still have alot of expenses that have to be paid.

It is alarming the number of poorly trained and uneducated agents (listing and selling) we have working in our market. Unfortunately, until we start demanding higher standards (i.e., industry related experience, apprenticeship requirements, etc...) in order to qualify for a real estate license the few will suffer for the many.

It is always a pleasure to work a deal with a professional, full-time agent who knows their stuff!

Renee, my experience with Ocwen was appalling. I submitted an offer online, which showed that none were in the system. For a few minutes after I did so, it showed number of offers as 1, and the price of my offer. To me this system works more like an online auction, as the next person can just up the offer price. But, the next day when I checked status, my offer didn't appear at all. The screen now said no offers. That's hardly a true and accurate picture. I tried to reach a human being to find out if they were having system problems, but got no where. A colleague had a phone number and I did finally get through to someone. Customer Service was in Uruguay. That's right - Uruguay! You have to wonder why it takes a listing agent in Southern California, a service in Florida and service staff in another country to sell one tiny condo in Northern California!

My client was so frustrated, she said that no matter what the property, she won't consider an offer on one by that company again.

Missy: Your packages are only 30-40 pages? I have faxed in 100+ page short sale packages. Luckily my fax machine is right next to computer. I can get choked on a fax easily for an hour sometimes. Our offers for REO are 11 pages plus 2 page REO addendum plus maybe another one or two page disclosure tacked on to fax machine plus duties owed plus EMD plus Pre-Approval letter (or two sometimes) plus residential disclosure guide receipt plus add another four page disclosure for HOAs plus.........You get the picture. Our offers can be up to 30 pages alone. Some LAs have antiquated fax machines and don't know about efaxes, there is a big grrrrrrr right there. SInce my all in one can be choked up with faxing 2-3 hours a day, I cannot print copy fax or scan. Wanna know why I have so much time to blog after I make my phone calls and send out emails?!?! Because I am sitting here making sure the fax gets through! LOL!

Laurie: Like I said, a simple survey at the end of a transaction will uncover some major consistencies in the end. They get our phone number, fax, email and brokerage address on a contract. They know where to find us. HOA demands (not being ordered in a timely manner) have been causing major problems with closings in the end (so long that sometimes loan docs need to be redrawn and resigned) and part of that problem is with the title company THEY CHOOSE. I wonder how many title companies and list agents keep them up to speed with that in the end or is it "our fault"?

Brad: This process won't cut agents out for several reasons. HUD has had open public bidding since BEFORE the internet became wildly popular. FSBOs have and always will be around for eternity. People buy at trustee's sales on the courthouse steps every day without agents. The point is, inexperienced buyers may not be going online to make bids and if they do, they could fail miserably after being unsuccessful with their bids or not know enough about the process and front about $1000 on appraisals and inspections and have their house fall out of escrow because they don't know what to look for. Our job is becoming so highly specialized it isn't even funny. The experts will survive, I have faith or I wouldn't propose something like this!

Ray: awwwwww so sweet! I wish I could arrange a town hall of frustrated buyer's agents with servicing company, noteholder and elected officials to open their eyes :) This is the second best option!

Al: 100% Agreed

Rebecca: Funny I think I submitted an offer two weeks ago on one of your listings and I may have spoken to you or a co-list (do you co-list) and had NO problems talking on the phone with you or the co-list or even a knowledgable assistant. Unfortunately this one didn't pan out because my buyer got an acceptance in the middle of you losing your other buyer (we were placed in back up position if I remember correctly.) People like YOU and your team get stars in my book and I remember your names and get excited when clients like the *star* agent's listings who believe in the art of negotiating and human contact. I get what you are saying about well written offers, I think there should be required apprenticeships or mentorships also. A real estate transaction is so highly detailed at the moment (see my response to Brad above) that you can't fake it until you make it. You can look at an offer and talk with the other side and tell if they "get it" or not. Then the ones who don't "get it" and leave their clients uneducated about the process are the ones that give you the most crap in the end. This is why I prefer to stay out of distressed sales on the listing end (although I do them every once in a while)

Karen: THat's why I said that they aren't my favorite servicer. Pretty much only one agent owns the listings for them here so I won't go into gory details on my experiences because I would be singling out one agent and that's probably not cool. Now as far as the process goes, was your buyer financed? Condo financing is a little difficult and they could be looking for an all cash buyer. A rejection or a call from the list agent would be nice but at least you know it got uploaded to the system. It may still be in consideration, who knows. That's the frustration I feel too with them. OTOH, since the buyer was able to up your bid, that net the noteholders more which proves my point - Transparency can help turn this around.

Well stated, Renee. I decided a long time ago that I did not want to be a property manager, so I do solicit or accept REO lisitngs. I do represent buyers. REO listers in our area have turned into glorified paper-pushers that are usually inadequately compensated for their efforts. Thus, they attempt to make up the shortfall with volume, becoming over-whelmed, and, therefore, not performing very well. Of course, there are always exceptions. Some are just lazy, incompetent, or maybe of questionable character. I continue to be amazed at how a property can remain on the market for 150 days, but when I submit an offer, a "multiple offer situation" majically appears.

Renee, I have received you post this morning at 7:30 pst. Thank you for efforts.

Seriously, very good insight for those of us who have not experianced the REO shuffle, yet. Thanks!

Renee,

Nice Post. With the use of ReoTrans by many banks it makes sense that a function could be put in place that allows a offer to be submitted on a particular property.

My team and I have been handling REO's for Country Wide and now Bank of America for several years in the Boulder and Denver, CO area and Have actually found the Banks to be very easy to work with. I am still in shock with the way many of us choose to market REO's they deserve the same attention and detail as any listing including professional Photos, complete MLS information, easy access, online and offline marketing and probably most importantly professional and courteous communication to our fellow agents to set both the buyer and seller up for a successful closing.

Improvements that allow for a smoother transaction and allow the Seller to maximize their value received on their asset base in a professional and ethical manner is the good for the client and as a result good for our industry.

Rebecca: Oops that wasn't your listing but I know I have called an inquired on your listings before and maybe even submitted an offer or two. Nothing ever went through but you never left a bad taste in my mouth and I know your name is one that can be trusted.

Steve: That happens alot (with the listing sitting there for 150, no offers and then multiples all of a sudden.) Usually a price reduction or an inventory shift within the buyer's criteria can spark that. We all have to go fishing in different waters these days since we lack so much REO inventory. One day we all decided to prey on that overpriced REO shit-hole listing and all put an offer on it, LOL!

Dean: For your sake I hope that "yet" never comes to you, LOL! Don't wish it on my worst enemy!

Greg: I know BOA is doing some shifting and I am wondering if it is going to trend to that. Can I stand up, give you a big standing ovation and say THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK you for your comment. The sellers DO deserve the SAME attention to detail as "private" sellers do. That was part of my post. Where are some of these people going to be when we have a "normal" market someday? Your name is your reputation and these buyers are going to remember who's name was on all those signs in the yards and that we couldn't get answers from them.

Renee Great Blog as expected...i work the southwest fl....just behind you in foreclosures there are agents with 200+ REO and 3 people on the team...the agents can't keep up with the offers and I believe the banks are missing out on top dollar...congrats on the feature!

glorified paper pushers indeed! more than a year ago i was talking with a deputy of one of the bigger REO agents here and she confessed that they were required to deal with their asset managers by email...no calls please. so in this case thay could have been replaced with a monkey and a fax machine.

sometime later i was chatting with a broker who told me that all his receipts from the maintenance and management of his REO listings had to be submitted, IN PROPER FORM, within 30 days of closing or they would not be reimbursed. it was so bad he said that he had to hire a person JUST TO KEEP THE BOOKS FOR THE REO's. he also told me that they were allowed only one submission. better not miss a receipt!

the vast majority of reo agents are pee'd on by their clients and they simply return the favor. i was offered a few reo listings by a friend and when i learned what was expected for the fees and the manner in which i would be expected to treat the communication...i declined. after all my additional expenses the payday was modest...easy kills but just not worth the BS.

i have no expectation that the process will correct itself and have just resolved to wait it out. i am unwilling to write business plans for banks so stupid that they wrote these loans in the first place and gave up long ago hoping that relators would obtain basic business courtesies. present company excluded, of course.

It seems like some things get lost in the shuffle. Congrats on the featured post! This is definitely a nationwide problem, but it's so new that there isn't any legislation to deal with it yet

Renee-

"Listing agent is neutered to a paper shuffler and escrow mediator between buyer's agent and asset manager - they become a glorified transaction coordinator and are really just needed for MLS services."

Sounds a bit like buyers agents against listing agents. Buyer agents would rather deal directly with the lenders on REO's? SO that is putting banks back into the real estate business which is what NAR has been fighting against for years. I am wondering why all the angst towards lisitng agents. We don't have these issues here with our REOs in our area. We are listing agents but don't work with REOs but if you delete the listing agent from the REO process that is just one step closer to deleting the listing agent in the next step, and so on, until the listing agent is obsolete which is the goal of many of the big banks to begin with. I take issue with it all since I have been a listing agent for over 20 years and happen to respect the listing agents. I have only been a buyers agent for in my entire career for about 2 or 3 years when I was getting divorced because my x would go to my listings and make their lives miserable. Did not want to put my sellers in the middle of that.

We are good at what we do, we close our listings and we treat buyers agents with respect and dignity. Why do we resort to being enemies at the end of the day? We are, after all, in the same line of work, get paid commissions. Seems to me it is best to look in the good of each other and help each other make money. Katerina

I much prefer HUD's when it comes to REO's because of this reason. I may never get to talk to the agent, but by golly I really don't need to very often. Just login, submit offer, and pray! LOL.

Something really does need to be done about this to get these homes off the market. It's not fair to the banks to be receiving such crappy service from their agent, and it's not nice to make it so hard for a buyer to get through! We need these gone!

WoW.... Applauding!!! I am experiencing the same thing here and all I can say is Well Said! I think the many banks are losing millions of dollars for not changing their procedures. That is just not smart, clear and simple. I get they are overwhelmed but they would still be millions up if they would just hire a team to revisit and change the procedure on how the bank owned are handled. Submitting all offers directly to a 3rd party like offersubmission.com or send directly to asset manager is first and foremost to save the company potentially millions. I just wrote a post where a house sold for $50,000 less than what my buyer offered and it was within the comps. Mind blowing and frustrating!!! Do they actually not monitor what is going on?

I absolutely know that some of my offers never hit the bank even though it was probablyly first or second in price and strength of buyer. Another stayed active for over a month, agent was looking to double end, my offer was put in 2nd day along with many others. Strong offers yet it remained active and the explanation was Fanny Mae takes a long time to decide. Now I know that was not Not true because I have closed Fanny Mae and they do not take that long to respond. I could go on and on but the bottom line is lose millions or change the way you do it. If you do not change then do not take a penny in bail out money. We should not have to pay for their lack of how to run a smart business. I get that at first they were overwhelmed and not ready for this but enough time has passed to analyze and get smart about it! The longer they wait to address this issue the more money they lose.

Tim: Thanks :)

Michael: What we have going on here is "kick the dog" syndrome: Dad has a bad day at work and yells at Mom, Mom gets upset and yells at kid, kid kicks the dog (not condoning that behavior but it's a phrase.) Everyone forgets what it's really all about in the end: representation and highest net for seller and best cost and concessions for buyer.

Dianne: well thanks :bowing: Thanks for bringing up other dirty tricks played (such as the dual agency game). Give us a chance is all I wanna say. I may just have to run around and ask for offer submission proof (that was the first time in my example in my post above and I never got it) and start filing complaints. How else can we change the system if they don't want to hear us?

Sandy: I am sure the legislation will come down in the end and the newbies to the business will say "what the h***, why does this exist?" :)

Katerina: in my post and in my comments in replies I am taking the property management, eviction and repair coordinator out of the job description so they can do their job which is glorified paper shuffling. NEVER did I take the list agent out of the process to coordinate the transaction! I am just taking out job descriptions that should not be done by a real estate agent. We do receive little respect and we are glorified paper shufflers (and door openers.) We don't hear anything for a week or two and then we get an email (no phone call) that we need our highest and best in two hours and that our clients need to sign off that they understand that this is a multiple offer situation. It is severe lack of respect that has brought on the "Us VS Them" proposition like I mentioned in my post. I want a receipt and that is too hard to get these days. They are overworked and underpaid (see my #25 comment to Laurie) and they need this stuff off their plates so they can go back to concentrating on things like "offers" and making sure nothing gets lost in the shuffle. We upload the files to the servicing companies and net it out. THe servicing companies send the 4 or 5 highest to the list agents to get human eyeballs and make sure the nets are correct and then they make a decision. I have only received about 2 receipts that Barb #12 talks about in the last year. That is from submitting hundreds of offers. How do I know they were submitted and how do I know that an assistant did the net correctly? How do I know they are even in receipt of my offer when they don't communicate with us?

Sheree: Thanks and you are correct.

Dianne: :bowing: Thank you! Thanks for mentioning OTHER issues that I didn't even delve in. I am not afraid of transparency AT ALL. I have nothing to hide and even though I may sound like it, I am not upset when something gets rejected (pretty common here) but I would like to see a receipt at this point.

Morning Renee, You are so far ahead of the curve on this. Surveying and grading ? How dare you introduce so much accountability into the system. Yes, it is broken and your insight would be a terrific starting point to start the fixin".

Renee, This is a good one.

We are experiencing the same thing down here in San Diego. We are seeing the property BOM and then sometimes receive the email.. "Is your client still interested in the property?" (well maybe a few months ago!!) Asked for highest and best and then yet another email stating.. "We're sorry but the seller has accepted another offer". Only to see the property sold 2-3 months later at a lower price. I write clean offers as well. Now were lucky to get a reply to an email or phone call. So here's to you and transparency!

The listing agents on these REO properties need to do their job better. Hire more assitants, not take too many listings, whatever it takes to do their job right so that that when we submit a good offer there is normal communication lines. It does not always work this way. I think they should have to put in the listing the name and phone number of who they are working with. That way, we could call them and complain if they are not doing their job properly. If they get enough complaints on a certain listing agent, maybe they would switch agents. How about that for transparency. I am going to re-blog your post because this is an issue I come across all the time.

Renee- The reason we don't want to do REOs listings is because of the liability that the lenders place on the listing agents and I don't want to do property management. Not in my biz plan. The REO agents in our county run their shop like a well oiled machine. I have the highest respect for what they do, I know the agent who owns the operation very well. Her office handles more than 1500 REOs and they are very good. I trust her operation and give her kudos for carving out this profit niche for herself and her crew. Now I am sure it is not like this everywhere. We have agents here who get thrown a bone or two and they are great to work with since they don't have a heavy work load with just one or two.

Getting proof is a great plan and I may chase that avenue as well. The problem being is they will more than likely just ignore it like they ignore the phone calls and emails. I agree, just a fair playing field is all I want! Best of Luck to you!

Very good post. I think there is a lot of corruption going on. This is not about being busy or things overlooked. I do not think all REO Agents are bad, but there are some. I have Bookmarked it thanks for the resources.

There should be a national repository for selling agents to enter their offer information; this information will not be available to anyone except the selling agent who entered the data. If a selling agent does not enter data, his/hers offer will not be considered. The data will be available to all agents and REO bank when the transaction is closed. Easy enough but will save a lot $$$ for REO banks and keep everyone honest.

I personally found out some lower offers were accepted instead of my clean and very good offers, after the transactions were closed. Since I have no way to prove it, and the REO banks don't seem to mind, I did not pursue my cases. I am sure this is not only happening to me.

Does anyone out there have the right buttons to push? Fannie Mae, FHA, or the White House, let's get together and save our reputation and our economy.

Go, Girl. You sure know how to rant! Thanks for the extra contact info, too.

Hi Renee: Here's my 2 cents: It doesn't matter if it is an REO agent or not. Some agents are ethical some are not. Indymac has the right idea with their offer hotline. Wells Fargo has a policy that no offer can be submitted within the first 5 days of listing. Utilities: Indymac & AHMSI currently has contractors putting on the utilities for them. What a nightmare. All I have to do is make 1 call to get the utilities on. Months later I still cant get the banks contractors to put utilities on . i had to pay a neighbor cash to borrow water so we could fumigate a house.

I don't like Ocwen's system of entering an offer on line. From what I can tell buyers can do this directly. So instead of accepting my qualified buyer's offer they want me to follow up with the online offer. Of course when I do there's no response to my email and the telephone number is out of order. I think the solution is a telephone number hotline like Indymac's and of course ethical agents.

Rene, Brave Lady!!! Thank you for the fantastic post!!! worth re-blogging many times over!!! I am so sick of the shenanigans going on with Short Sales and REO's. It is very difficult and discouraging... Thank you for speaking for many of US.

All right, Renee! What I don't get is why the asset managers give so many REO listings to one agent in a given market who has so many that they can't possibly do a good job of marketing them. These agents sometimes don't even bother to get inside the house and post interior photos.

SEP

Great post Renee. I could not have said it any better myself. So ditto this post.

Wow Renee! Thanks so much for articulating so well this huge problem in our industry. This has got to be one of the most frustrating issues I have dealt with since getting into real estate in 1996. I cannot believe how much time, energy, paperwork, etc. we expend on behalf of our buyers showing and writing offers on these REO properties, and more often than not, not only is the offer never acknowledged, but no answer period. I agree that changes must be made as soon as possible. Not being able to answer our buyers in a professional manner as to how the REO system works is just not getting it. It has become so bad that I have felt my own work ethic and honesty might become suspect with my buyers because we can't get an acknowledgement for receipt of offer and a final answer as well. We have to be able to provide our buyers with answers, rules need to change, and quickly.... or we will begin to lose our buyers to the REO agents as the Buyers begin to think that must be the only way to get a property!! Many of my colleagues have expressed this same sentiment. Many, many thanks!

SEP

Fabulous job Renee and I can hear your frustration in every word. Great you suggested this and set it up. I have to say that I am one of the agents that use emailed offers and so far I have not had any bad luck :-o It amazes me that some of these people will not save themselves tons of time and tree killing and use a PDF file for your offer. Post all required riders on the MLS (ours can do this) or get a $6 month hosting site to do it!

SEP

Poignantly painful. I know that there are at least a half-dozen or more software companies that "cater to" to REO listing agent crowd. We use TazaREO. These systems assist in doing just what you are asking for. I suspect, in time, every agent listing property will be using something similar.

We service FDIC listings. Their procedure is to get effectively what amounts to an LOI and select the best offer (not always the highest, especially when FHA loan offers have to compete with all cash offers). The best offer is "elevated", the winning buyer is notified and must produce an EMD using certifiable funds (cashiers check or money order) in addition with the rest of the contract. Then it takes however long it takes to get official acceptance of the offer.

OCT

Renee - Great post. You have obviously put a lot of thought into the solutions offered. Now, if only the banks would respond....

OCT

Wow Renee...your post is EXACTLY what initially led to the development of OfferSubmission.com.

We were consulting directly with a national lender and their outsourced servicer and were able to prove to them that they weren't receiving all the offers in a local marketplace for one reason or another...listing agents were overworked or had other incentives, buyers agents were leery of the REO purchase process, etc.

We actually did a presentation for a regional bank, and their REO manager actually told us that "he has the best listing agents out there because they are able to sell all literally of our listings to their own buyers". In their eyes that was a good thing and they were obviously proud of that fact...until we pointed out that it was proof that they were being taken advantage of...that there was absolutely NO WAY that a listing agent could double-dip every single property unless they were gaming the system.

We hear from agents all the time raving about our system's transparency and the accountability of both agents in the sale process.

This blog does not allow anonymous comments