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Will the Cap and Trade Bill Have an Impact on Housing Sales?

In the interest of creating a better environment, new legislation that is along the lines of the Waxman-Markey Cap and Trade Bill is scheduled to be unveiled by the end of the month. The bill will include language for a new National Building Code calling for homes to be more energy efficient.

With regard to new construction, there have been some notable innovations in green building designs and the use of these should be encouraged in new homes.

However, according to a recent article, the proposed code has a provision which would mandate that all housing transactions be required to undergo and pass an environmental inspection. In older home sales this could be significant. Windows that are not airtight and appliances that are not Energy Star certified would have to be replaced before the sale could happen.

The fear is that this bill could possibly affect the sales of "fixer-upper" homes; however, I cannot honestly see the government moving in with these types of restrictions at this point which would severely impact the sale of the huge inventory of foreclosure properties now sitting on the block with millions more expected.

Currently, sellers in Massachusetts and many other states are mandated to have smoke and carbon monoxide detectors as a requirement before any property can be transferred. Also, owners with private septic systems must have a Title V inspection and it fails, they are required to remedy the problem by installing a new septic system.

Most people are onboard with these items since they have a huge impact on safety and protecting the environment. However, if home sellers have to repair every problem prior to a sale, it could significantly drive up the cost of selling a home.

At a time when the country is spending countless sums of money to shore up the housing market with a first-time tax credit and the possibility of extending and expanding this program, it seems contradictory to come up with legislation that could sabotage these efforts.

I will be on the lookout for more clarification of this bill in the coming weeks and hope that the stir about it is more smoke than fire.

With the housing market still in a depressed state, it is hard to imagine that the government would choose this time to make housing sales more difficult.

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Posted by Claudette Millette - Metrowest Mass Exclusive Buyer Broker on 09/25/2009 10:55 PM

Comments (122)

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Originally posted at: Claudette's Blog: Will the Cap and Trade Bill Have an Impact on Housing Sales?

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122 Comments on Will the Cap and Trade Bill Have an Impact on Housing Sales?

SEP

"hard to imagine that the government would choose this time to make housing sales more difficult."

Really? Lets don't forget that these are the people who would push through a 1000+ page white elephant without giving themselves time to read it. It hasn't been about using good sense...it's been about emotions and politics...I don't put anything past this bunch.

While I think this is an excellent idea in good economic times to generate more "green" business, I can't imagine that it would be required in these times with such high inventory as you suggest. The government already has tax incentives in place for those that initiate energy efficient systems as tax credits, I think this will be should be down the road. Glad to have it brought to my attention. I definitely want to get my "green designation" soon.

Yes - Cap and Trade will have a down ward impact on the housing market.

Many in Congress vote to pass massive Bills with out being able to fully analyize the effects their decisions will have on the economy. In fact it is nearly impossible to calculate the end results... there for small, tiny tweaks would be suggested... not 1000+ page bills.

As Realtors we need to be vocal and not rely on the RPAC members to speak for us.

Not sure if it is going to have an impact on housing sales but it's certainly going to be costing somebody something... and sales are all about the price.

Will the Federal Govt. come up with a "Dough for Dumps" program?

Time will tell...

Unfortunately, I believe our government is trying to ruin our country. Too bad more American citizens won't wake up to the fact that we are slowly being "boiled to death". Cap and Trade is just another attempt to socialize our system, creating impossibilities for many to obtain housing, let alone sell in a depressed housing market.

I love my country, but I am afraid of my government!!

David Castle, Realtor

Coldwell Banker Devonshire Realty

Washington, Il 61571

www.DavidCastle.biz

Surely it's a hard day for some estate agents.

This would be a total disaster for home sales. It is already hard enough to get through the inspection process as it is. And, with the lack of equity so many owners are facing these days, it is ridiculous to expect sellers/owners to have the willingness or financial ability to replace certain features, appliances, windows, etc. out of their own pocket that are already in working order!ila

I am sorry, but this admin is on a course to dismantle everything we and our forefathers have worked so hard for. Global warming is a scam! Evidence does not lie!

Mark Phillips

Broker-Owner

There are at least two things guaranteed in life - Death and change...

I think that this change, though another expense to our sales, is in the final analysis, good for the total economic picture.

http://realestatemeltingpot.ning.com/

Coldwell Banker, Garvin Realtors

Building One 7373 Hodgson Memorial Drive

Savannah, Ga. 31406 (912) 412-0381 cell (912)925-7777 ofc. (912) 921-0206 fax

From the desk of:

Louis E. Wilson, Sr. - REALTOR - "The Land Man"

Member Savannah, Georgia, & National Boards of Realtors

Associate Broker -25 Plus Years Experience - "The land man"

E-Mail: Lew1801@yahoo.com

www.louiswilson.com

We are in the process of offering, full service turnkey investment property locating, financial assessment, financing, rehab, and rental management or exit strategy, or buildout.

Realtors are not on the protected species list. The "Mother Earth"-worshippers are out to destroy capitalism.

This legislation is foolishness. It would impact those who are poor or without cash and in effect keep them from selling there home if they cannot come up with the funds to complete this list of improvements creating possibly more foreclosure or short sales. Government forcing citizens to buy the next best technology is hardly good economics. It would drive the price of homes up, in essence keeping more folks from having affordable housing that they can improve on an incremental basis as it has been done since America began. Most people want improvements on their homes, but let them choose the improvements as they can afford them....vote out Waxman and Markey if they are in your State. Cap and trade will hurt the economy more than it would help. Taxes do not create wealth or prosperity for the citizens.

This bill would take away the need for investors to get a 203k loan, forcing the seller to pay for greenprovements before selling which would limit the number of investor purchases for rentals to low income. Basically this bill would hurt the housing market when it is on it's heels. Governmental incentives for greenprovements is a great idea. Forced greenprovements is just bad economics for the less fortunate and our economy.

Monica:

There is some truth to what you say. I am just curious as to why NAR does not seem to be taking a position in this or I have not read that they are.

Cathy:

I am all for Green as well. It would just be hard to imagine bringing the massive inventory of foreclosures all to Green status. I don't know who would pay for it.

Lynda:

So, we should probably get in touch with our representatives on this.

Paul:

That sounds like a reasonable name for what that a program like that might entail.

David:

We will have to keep a watch on this one and see how it turns out.

And the Federal Government should not be telling me what I can... or can't buy when it comes to real estate.

If I want to buy a house with 1920 windows, appliances, potbelly stove... that should be my right.

(By the way... some new "stimulus" programs are available for lower income families to update / weatherproof their homes and pays the "approved" contractors pretty well to do this. For example... in our area -->

http://www.helpsonv.org/programs-weatherization.php .... I think similar programs have been put in place nationwide with the "stimulus" program.)

Well, I guess it's a bit of wait-and-see!

I'm doing quite a few short sales at this time, and I don't see the lender makign ANY repairs.

Then consider REO's - Can you imagine the bank making repairs to get a house off their books? NOT!

I suspect if they do make these repairs a requirement, they will likely include a waiver for short sales and bank owned - or the foreclusures might as well be considered tear-downs.

Pete in Land O Lakes, FL

prundel@cox.net

I fully support safe, sound and sanitary housing for all people. Beyond that, I believe we should allow the market to influence what modifications are made, homes are sold, etc.

It may be a worthy goal for the future...but certainly not right now. If you don't have money to pay your mortgage, why would you have money to implement green standards to sell a house?

Cap and trade couldfurther devastate our economy

Mark:

It certainly would be expensive to someone if this happened. I'm not sure who they would expect to pick up the tab. Particularly, on foreclosure properties.

Louis:

How is this good for the total economic picture?

Claudetter, thanks for the reasonbly well balanced post on this issue. The great majority of REALTORS are adamantly against this legislation but I think they are being short-sighted. We must, as a country, take the lead on the environmental issues facing the next generation or there really will be an end to real estate as we know it. Most of the views against this legislation strike me as short sighted and selfish only analyzing how "it will affect my business today" I think we need to look at the industry as a whole, embrace the change that environmental awareness brings and adapt...

Anthropological global warming is a huge scam. What types of measuring instruments where scientists using in the 1800's. Our planet has been going through changes since the Big Bang. Weatherman can't predict the weather next week and they are going to tell us the weather at the end of the century. The earth has been cooling for the past 10 years and co2 levels follow temperatures. This is a huge govt. power grab and redistribution of wealth. I read the 80 percent of the proceeds from the bill will go to govt. pork projects. Enviromentalists and the far left wing of the Dem. Party are going too far.

Joe:

You are right. Unless they are planning to have some special provisions for investors or low income buyers it would seem to put a dent in the 203K program. I do think more incentives would help with this issue also.

Paul:

I agree that those stimulus programs for updating to Green are helpful.

While "green" homes and energy efficiency is wonderful for the environment and does much to raise awareness about what can be done, it should not be mandated by the government. The legislation you write about, if it should somehow pass, would hurt our industry in its current status. I am personally against it. Somehow, it gets back to "big brother" muscling in again. I say enough!!!

Peter:

That would be my guess also. If they don't make a waiver for foreclosures and short sales it could severely impact their sales.

Barb:

That is a valid question.

Joe:

I think that is a concern. So, hopefully, if it is implemented there will be some exceptions.

it will hammer ALL corners of the economy. the basis behind the bill is that ALL things must be taxed to raise their price to influence consumer behavior. the stated goal of the bill is to raise prices to curb CO2 emissions. it will clobber every element of the economy...especially the auto sector.

real estate is just one tiny sliver of this bill that will be just the latest step in the federal takover of everything.

this is not an obama issue, it is a henry waxman/markey behemoth. of course obama has no problem with it.

Don't be so short sighted. You have to understand the whole program.

First, creating a market for carbon credits is going to create an economic market, which means jobs. Jobs are the determining factor for any home's underlying value. Without the increase in jobs & wages, all increasing in housing values are artificial & unsustainable (as has been proven).

Furthermore, you are looking at a niche and broadcasting that effect on the whole industry. As always, sellers are going to have to make decisions about repairing their home for resale. This no different, just a tougher standard that really needs to put in place. These repairs mean that the new homeowner spends less $ on monthly utility costs. Therefore, they will have more disposable income to put towards their housing costs. Thus, the seller should take that into consideration when determining the "value" of their home and the payback to the buyer for these capital improvement (a simple economic formula).

Finally, municipalities really need these types of ordinances for older homes that utilize 50% more water, gas & electricity that new energy efficient homes. Water is a mitigating factor for a lot of development plans, which provide valuable housing inventory in many locations. In fact, as stewards of the planet, we ALL need to support requirements for energy efficient retrofits of homes - which are the #1 contributor of greenhouse gasses.

Paul:

I do think we should take some responsibility for fixing the environment. It is our planet. However, I would prefer to see more incentives. I am a bit concerned about the person who can only afford to buy a "fixer-upper." What will happen to this buyer?

Adan:

I appreciate your comments. We will have to wait and see what happens on this.

Here's a way to do something about this ridiculous bill

www.DownsizeDC.org

they have a very simple to use system to deliver emails to the electeds on a wide variety of issues that are all aimed at reducing the size and scope of the federal govt.

you sign up once and then weighing in on bills you have an interest in is very convenient.

have a look

There will be less jobs and income. It only makes sense that people will have less to spend and the government will have more. I am still waiting for the millions of green jobs.

The polution just gets transfers to another part of the world. Much like the Ethanol diaster. Food gets more expensive. Certain farmers and business interests get a short term gain in the billions

The enviroment get hammered in the Gulf of Mexico. It never gets talked about unless you live here. Oh nothing can be done because we do not have the money. We do not have the votes. You never get the full story. Its never about what they say!!

A thought that comes to mind in your post is the repair or replacement of functions of any house sold that is not in prime condition. One benefit of the program would be that the buyers of such homes would have more money free after closing to spend on items that will truly aid the economic recovery. Furniture, landscaping, accoutrements of some sort. Replacing the septic system, new windows, insulation are good energy savers, but in my view limited effect on the economy as a whole. So perhaps we need to lobby Congress to allow a tax credit for these improvvements or provide grant programs to get initial housing to meet the proposed guidelines instead of further burdening cash strapped sellers and buyers. (((Note to President Obama...the American population is NOT made up of millionaires like you who stumbled upon a pot of gold))))

"Don't be so short sighted. You have to understand the whole program."

I do not know your name - you didn't leave it, but you have an interesting take on this. And, that is the savings on energy cost could offset the cost of repairs. Therefore, increasing the value of the older home by making it more energy efficient. That's a good point. But, the question I think is still - how would a cash-strapped seller pay for the energy improvement up front?

I need more feedback on this to totally understand how it could work.

Paul Gaddes says "... The great majority of Realtors ... are being short sighted. ... short sighted and selfish ..."

Embracing the "change that environmental awareness brings" has given visionary Paul Gaddes the same penetrating insight into the collective heart of the nationwide Realtor that Paul brought to public education, where he came from before getting a real estate license eight years ago.

Public education's loss is residential brokerage's gain.

Patrick A. Daniels, Long Beach, CA

"however, I cannot honestly see the government moving in with these types of restrictions at this point which would severely impact the sale of the huge inventory of foreclosure properties now sitting on the block with millions more expected."

I beg to differ. I think their intent is to appease a large voting constituency and they have not really evaluated what the consequences might be. Rather, they don’t care as long as they have satisfied that voting block in order to get the votes the next go round. (Let’s talk about Term limits!)

I have a graduate degree in Environmental Science and ten years ago when we were discussing cap and trade legislation as students we knew it was not a truly environmentally sound way to achieve better environmental quality as it just shifts the problem and creates pockets of concentration (typically in poor neighborhoods). This bill is just one of many being cranked out by our current administration and congress that will have costly impact on the end user, which is you and your neighbors as all the goods we consume will be more expensive to manufacture and the costs need to be recaptured somewhere.

Another problem of this sloppy legislation will be more government regulation = bureaucratic red tap. So welcome to a slower more costly home selling process.

Michael:

I guess that's a way to go if your only interest is to downsize the government but I think there is more to this issue than that.

Eric:

You may be right. It just gets transfered but it has to go someplace eventually and I think we may be in the process of trying to clean up this country.

Kathy:

I do think tax credits for these improvements is a good way to go. When you start to talk about grants though - who would qualify for these and how?

Marika:

You have more expertise on this issue than most of us. If you disagree with this legislation as a solution to our environmental problems, what would be your solution? I would be very interested.

Cap and TAX has little to do with the environment. Nothing wrong with making homes more energy efficient - but Americans cannot affort the $300 per month tax this bill has for each family, in addition to the massive amounts of wealth that will be taken away from our borders, and the millions of jobs that will be lost.

If you don't believe what I say about the agenda, look at what the United Nations plans on doing with OUR money as related to cap and tax. This is a political movement, not an environmental movement. It is about transferring power and wealth from one group to another inside our borders and transferring wealth from developed countries (capitalist) to the Third World.

So far they propose a 1% tax on everyone in the world. Think I am nuts? Look it up. I do not want to work for the UN.

Cap and Trade (tax) is a FRAUD. Our gov't and the UN is out of control. I urge everyone to research this massive tax scam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVNtoAiOh1k

Patrick:

I don't think Realtors are necessarily short-sighted or selfish. I think we are trying to find a practical solution to our environmental problems that will not hurt the low-income buyer, the cash-strapped seller and, in general, hurt housing sales. If the housing market suffers, the economy suffers and a further recession will not help the environment.

Ok folks, you can't be on both sides of this issue. Pres. Oboma has already stated that he expects all utilities to take a large hike "when this bill is pasted". So with that said why would you not think this is going to inpact ALL uf us. They have also said there is no scientific research data that backs up this techonolgy testing. And do you think the 3rd world countries are going to do this? India will not as well as several other mild east countries. And if you do your research about the reporting of the carbon footprint to the government you will find that Al Gore is a major share holder of the company developing this software. Thus he can say" I will not take a pay check while serving on any advisory panel". We are headed down the icy road that will put millions out of work or business as they try to comply with regulations that will be changing daily after it is passed. Good Luck to us all

Claudette,

This is an extremely dangerous bill that will certainly harm the American economy. It should never be passed. :)

Steve

I can see few know the full inmpact. The biggest lobbiests are China, India, Korea, and others. They are waiting & hoping it passes. They are NOT going t participate. China has already built empty factories anticipating passage. One of the few truthful sentences obama has said is "electricity prices will skyrocket". PA and NC electricity CO-OPs have already estimated a 36% & 40% increase i n electric bills. That will impact housing. Another impact is all the jobs that will be sent off shore. Manufacturing will not be able to compete- tough enough now. Fewer good jobs will be in the US.

Forget housing for a moment and think of the elderly and poor. Do you think they will continue purchasing as they are now? Whoops- there also goes lower paying service jobs.

Why does obama insist on leading the US into becoming a 3rd world country? What is his agenda? What ever it is you can be sure it is not good for any industry.

This bill is designed to ruin are economy. Even if the repair provisions are not enforced the general economic damage this bill will do will hit the housing industry like a tidal wave. If you do not believe the nuts in Washington will do this you should see what they are doing to California Farms right now! They have cut off the water in order "Save" the snail darter and are turning the central valley into a dust bowl.

Phil:

I am not sure what you are driving to with that video.

Some people are making this an "Us vs. them" scenario. This is our planet - this is our economy. We are all in this together. If you are opposed to this bill, you should write to your Congressman, and, perhaps NAR.

Regardless of your stance on global warming or green building all you need to do is attempt to transact real estate in one of Cleveland's Inner Ring Suburbs: Shaker Heights, Euclid, Cleveland Heights and countless others. These proposals will not hurt home sales, it will SEVERLY CRIPPLE home values and our economy.

When you want to sell your home you must have a Point of Sale Inpsection. If you don't fix the items, the buyer can Assume the violations by putting 150% of the value of the anticipated repairs into an escrow account. NO, you can't use that money to make the repairs. You must pay for the repairs (now you effectively have 250% out of your pocket) and once you have proved that you have made the repairs you get the escrow money back.

The result: Retail sale value may be $100k but REOs in the neighborhood sell for $25k when they only need $10-20k in repairs. What is the balance of the spread? A premium for the 1) The 'cost' of the escrow money 2) The limited number of well financed people that can afford to do this 3) The excruciatingly painful process to assume then have repairs re-inspected.

If you read their websites for these cities it would sound like a great benefit to the community and minimal effort to the parties affected. WRONG, it is anything except easy, minimally invasive, and reasonable. Oh and if you disagree, you would be more successful arguing with a wall than with the building departments. Do you think the federal government will be more responsive and compassionate than the local government???

These communities have housing stocks that were 90% built between 1910 and 1960. What do you figure the tab to retrofit will be? $30, 40, 50k on a $100-150k house. You thought we had people walking away from their mortgage because they were under water, just wait for the next round of foreclosures!!

Go Green, Save the Planet, who wouldn't support that?? However, do your homework on the subject. Check out how this type of program works in practice. Or in this case doesn't work...

We are speaking of the same government who has allowed HVCC to go unquesitoned. I believe that we will discover in the future that the banks have a way stronger hold on our government that we ever understood. Why else would the government allow them to own the very appraisal management company that they are suppose to have an arms length from? They bailed them out, but the public is finding it harder and harder to get loans. Desk reviews by banks are killing deals. With HVCC in place, appraisal issues are killng deals. So, here the banks have our money but are looking for any excuse to not lend it. Now, they can say that since it is not energy efficient, they can't loan on it. Anyone see a trend here?

"NAR has not taken a position on the cap and trade component of Waxman-Markey, and has dropped their opposition to the bill. As directed by the PAG on Climate Change and the NAR Land Use, Property Rights and Environment Committee, NAR only advocated on provisions that would have directly had a significant or adverse affect on the real estate industry."

This is the only information I have found on NAR's involvement with this bill. This was back in June. Does anyone have anything further? If not, I wonder why they have been silent on this.

Claudette,

You wrote "I need more feedback on this to totally understand how it could work."

Here's how "it" works: Higher costs of energy decreases income necessary for a consumer to support mortgage debt.

The $4,000 or so increase in a household's annual energy costs under cap and trade [and that's in the early years after implementation] is equivalent to some $15,000 in mortgage debt (30-yrs fixed @6%) or a real estate commission on a $250,000 transaction.

Ten years from now, consumer losses from cap and trade can double.

One of two things or both will happen under cap and trade; property values will fall or commissions will be reduced or both.

Patrick A. Daniels, Long Beach, CA

The biggest problem is that so many in our country are missing the entire point... Global Warming is a Fraud & all of the Government changes are designed to manipulate & control us!

Look up "Joe Bastardi's" videos on YouTube. Also look up Van Jones' group Green For All, along with the Tides Foundation & you will see their motives and why we all have to fight against this!

I live in an energy producing state where a lot of jobs are derived from sending the rest of the country oil and gas. You do not drill in your own states since you believe its bad for the enviroment. Much has improved over the last 50 years. The production of Ethanol from the Midwest produces more pollution than the oild and gas drilling.

The polution and expense has been passed to us as a state. The votes are not here to overturn the liberal bills. Oddly enough it would hurt the poorest states much more than yours. Your economy will be much more protected than ours. You guys got the BIg Dig when we needed levees to protect peoples lives from flooding. You guys had the votes.

There is only so much money to go around. We need to keep issues in perspective and actually know the facts. Whoever has the votes wins.

If the true issue is the enviroment then just mandate that there be no polution and drop the collection of taxes. The polar bears will be much happier.

I've been wanting to share this info with my readers & your post today was just the nudge I needed. Thanks

It's not all gloom and doom. Every misguided government cloud has a silver lining.

Notice how new and complex tax laws get called the Tax Accountants' Relief Act? New and complex laws regulating the sale of real estate could become the Real Estate Agents' Relief Act.

If it takes an expert to bring about a real estate sale, even fsbo sellers will need to turn to the experts. And that would be greedy old us :)

Of course, in established communities with mature housing stock, there may be no homes to sell if this law passes - but we will be experts at selling them.

Les Black

The Savvy Real Estate Agent

Claudette,

I was being fecetious about Paul Gaddes remarks "... The great majority of Realtors ... are being short sighted. ... short sighted and selfish ..."

I bet Paul got it though: Another educator who believes he knows more than the majority, and the majority are selfish.

Paul is not searching for a practical solution to environmental problems. Paul has arrived at the solution in the form of cap and trade.

If you disagree, then you are short sighted and selfish according to Paul.

Do you disagree with Paul, Claudette?

Hi Claudette,

The energy savings will benefit the buyer, the global warming benefits are critically needed by all of us.

Not sure who should pay for it but there is no argument that it shouldn't be done.

Should we wait until it is "convienent"? That day would have been back in the 1970's when it would have been easier. At no point in the future will addressing these problems be easier than it is today.

Maybe some combination of seller and society paying for it but either way it should be done.

I don't have any respect for realtors who cry that we should allow further damage to the world our children and grandchildren will have to live in because it might affect the number of homes they can sell today.

I hope readers are taking note of which Realtors are on which side.

Patrick:

Thank you for that analysis.

Howard,

Would you be kind enough to reference to any post where a Realtor advocates, let alone cries to allow further damage to the world?

Or was that a line you remember from the Al Gore movie?

Pat Daniels

"Who pays?" I often see this question when discussing proposed legislation. It is an easy answer. Taxpayer pays, of course. You pay, I pay, anyone with a job pays. Even if you aren't involved in real estate and never plan to sell your house....you will pay through your taxes for all the new regulatory bodies for this kind of bill.

Touching on the impact of this bill...it will be more expensive to sell/buy a house, even if the requirements are minor. In the initial implementation, a bill like this will put a great demand on products used to 'green up' houses. Costs WILL go UP. There will be more redtape as I can't imagine anyone is going to take anyone else's word on the fact that a house is 'green'. Oh and it could be argued that it will create harm to the environment as all of these products will have to be manufactured and I highly doubt they have "zero carbon footprint".

As for saving on utility bills...do the research and the math....in some areas of the country it can take up to ten or fifteen years to just break even on some of these improvements....if they last that long and don't have to be replaced or repaired during those years. So what is the goverment's answer? Artificially inflate utility costs and create a mass of regulation to hold its own citizens 'hostage' to buy the products and services the government wants us to buy.

If we are really environmentally conscious why don't we just dump the cap and trade bill and heavily subsidize installation of geothermal for every single home owner?? Oh wait...that might make sense and it wouldn't self perpetuate goverment bureaucracy and power. It would just lower utilities for EVERYONE, create jobs locally for EVERY state, and when the program was done...nothing for the politicians to skim off of or be chairman of.

And those foreclosed homes....we are already paying for them...anyone remember the bailout??

I don't quite understand why so many people think they aren't the one that is going to have to pay for more goverment. For the proposed cap and trade bill..the taxpayers will pay for it. Depending on who you listen to..left or right...this bill costs anywhere from $1700 to $3000 per year per household. Those numbers do not account for increased cost of living that would be caused by this bill-the higher prices for goods and services-just the amount of money us taxpayers have the privelege to pay our goverment for enacting this bill.

Morning Claudette, Well, at least your post brought out the " sky is falling " crowd. I agree with your premise that moving in this direction is a good thing. Lets hope the final bill will focus on incentives for the buyer so as to not increase the difficulty of selling !

Patrick:

I had never heard of Paul Gaddes until your comment and, I didn't realize that you were being facetious. Do I agree with him? I already said that I don't think Realtors are necessarily being greedy and selfish so I guess I don't. But, if you have not been able to tell until now, I am not totally on one side of this issue or the other. I care about the planet and I also care about the economy. I also have been unable to get a copy of the actual wording of the bill although I have looked for it.

If you read my post, it was not pro or con one way or the other. It was just to open up the topic for discussion and it certainly has done that.

There are some very thoughtful, interesting comments here and I have learned quite a bit from reading all of them.

Better environment? HA! It is to laugh!

The Waxman-Markey Cap and TAX bill, if passed into law, would be one more nail in the coffin of the late, great American economy. It will raise the cost of nearly everything!!!

The thieves in Congress -- and the special interests to which they are beholden -- are fast running out of other people's money (tax dollars) to fund their vote-buying debauchery. Hence, Congress has resorted to the creation of alternative income streams -- in order to disguise their crimes against the America People.

Irresponsible bail-out mania has apparently warped everyone's brain in this age of unrestrained entitlement. We must stop it now. Face facts: deferred debt is still debt, whether you owe it, your children owe it, or your unborn great-great grandchildren owe it.

Precious few people seem to "get" the nature of our peril. Before we scrap "clunkers", "healthcare", or confirm ourselves in the "green" religion, we would be better served by scraping the out-of-control aspects of our government. The greatest threat to our liberties does not come from enemies from abroad. Oh no. The greatest threats to our liberties are posed by enemies from within.

Let me make one thing abundantly clear. Environmental hysteria is based exclusively on outright lies and pure propaganda, rather than scientific fact. Nevertheless, the chief problem behind these devious social engineering schemes is that the taxation required to fund these programs. This manner of taxation is unsustainable and will tear asunder the fabric of our nation.

I prefer to call the environmental movement the "green menace", much like its next of kin, the "red menace".

Incidentally, you might want to lay in a supply of incandescent bulbs before the environmentally-unfriendly CFLs are all that you are allowed by law to buy. Just a simple suggestion from a conservationist who is loathe to having our choices dictated by an out-of-control government.

- Scott

Cap and Trade will have far reaching unintended consequences. In this market we have been growing at exponential rates for more than 20 years. If the updating aspects of the bill are implemented, The bill would destroy the market for resale properties that are ten or more years old. Well maintained properties would require thousands of dollars of upgrades in order to be sold. Buyers would avoid resale properties and gravitate even more toward new construction homes which have always provided our greatest competition. Buyers would do this to avoid issues with energy efficiency updates that may be needed by the resale property.

The current administration is determined to reduce you to a third world peon by any means at their disposal....or maybe you haven't seen the "NeW World Order" BS and the dollar replacement being put into place.

Go take your flu shot full of thimerosal (mercury)_ and Squalene (Gulf War Illness cause) and sit down and shut up.

"All that is neccessary for Evil to Triumph is for Good People to do Nothing." Sir Edmund Burke... that is as true today as it was when he wrote it hundreds of years ago.

Educate yourself....the Federal Reserve is a criminal enterprise (The Creature from Jekkyl Island by G. Edward Griffin explains it all)

Flu vaccine is dangerous (www.fluscam.com) explains the issues.

Try calling your bought and paid for congressman/Senator and see if they take your calls......

It's time to stand up before they bring us all to our knees for good.

There are actually a few things to look at here.

Will "Cap and Trade" help the environment?
Will "Cap and Trade" hurt the economy?
Will "Cap and Trade" hurt the housing market?

The answers are below:

No. "Cap and Trade" will not help the environment. Why? Simply put it does not reduce pollution. It only penalizes "polluters" (be careful about that definition since many people and business will be called "polluters" even if you would think they are not) and benefits "non-polluters" by requiring "polluters" to buy pollution credits from "non-polluters" (of course conveniently facilitated by "Cap and Trade" brokerages and dealers owned by the liked of Al Gore the wacko environmental left). In other words, "Cap and Trade" is wealth shifting much like a tax. Also, world pollution will actually increase since companies in India and China which will not participate in "Cap and Trade" and have little to no environmental regulation will gladly make up the production shortfalls caused by companies in "Cap and Trade" countries scaling back or shutting down. "Cap and Trade" does nothing to help create innovative and cost effective environmentally friendly technologies. A much better solution would be to fund more research to develop market worthy technologies.
Yes. "Cap and Trade" will hurt the economy. Any time the government artificially intervenes and creates an artificial advantage for one company/person it does so at the expense of another resulting in a warping of market principles. This creates corruption, graft and fear in the economy resulting in less actual investment and wealth creation. "Cap and Trade" will cost American jobs as companies deemed "polluters" will scale back, shut down or move out of the USA all resulting in higher unemployment.
Yes. "Cap and Trade" will hurt the housing market. When the housing market finally returns to its normal and historical pricing trends, which are based on incomes, not debt (prices still have to go down) the higher unemployment caused by "Cap and Trade" will result in lower housing prices. Also, the immediate effects of requiring all homes to meet the strict "Cap and Trade" requirements will cost homeowners billions.

There is almost nothing that the Obama administration is doing that makes any economic sense. For the record I have a BA in Economics from the University of Pennsylvania so I have a little background in this area.

This goes way beyond effecting sales fixer homes. This is just another way of squeezing money out of the good folk's packets.

As Howard Goff (post above) points out, this should have been addressed long ago. Oh wait, that did happen with Carter creating the Dept. of Energy which was founded to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.... hundreds of billions of tax payer money, massive increase of dependence on foreign oil... our Govt. at work!

It's not necessarily a "who's on which side" issue as much as it's a how do we accomplish efficiency and reduced dependance without harming Americans by creating some Govt. monster that devotes 90 cents of every dollar funded to it to keep the bloated machine alive.

Allocating several hundred billion tax payer dollars of which 5-10% goes to the actual problem is just plain stupid. Creating this monster to the detriment of every consumer is going to hurt much more than the housing industry.

As per who should pay for it, that's easy. The consumer always pays for it one way or the other. To not understand that "Society" paying for it is using consumer dollars is childish. The Govt's dollars USED TO BE YOUR DOLLARS.

Yeah, this is going to hurt our industry. The shame is that it's going to hurt every American, and thus hurt every industry. It sure is a good way to generate tax revenue though. To bad it won't have any meaningful effect on the environment or reduce our dependence in any measurable way.

Hi Claudette,

I had never heard of Paul either until your blog post. But I've heard his insidious style of argumentation many times. It's typical of elitists, and its insulting.

I understand that your post was unbiased.

I bet your finger tips are sore : )

Best,

Pat

Bill:

Yes, moving toward this goal with incentives rather than increased costs to people who are selling their homes would be the preferable way to go. Absolutely!

Steve:

I am sorry, but your comment was in poor taste and I do not want it on my blog. So, I deleted it.

Claudette...

I am on the side that this is nothing more than "social engineering" based upon "Junk Science"...

We all are for clean air and water... however out here in California... they are going to put us out of business with some of the stupid things they have in mind for us...

We have a governor that signed a bill in 2006 that is going to be onerous and is the model for the rest of the country... watch out...

Remember that old saying... I'm here from the government and I'm here to help"...

Say good bye to our standard of living...

Take a look for example that we have the "bread basket" of the world in the San Joquain valley... but we're using only about 1/4th of it now because of the "delta smelt"...

We can't build storage facilities (aka Dams) bad for the enviroment... we can't use the water... bad for the enviroment... so we'll just have to import our food too...? From Mexico and China...?

Anybody who voted for s stinking Democrat is voting for Socialism and the destruction of our country as we know it... because of some perceived guilt we're supposed to have because we are a wealthy country... after all... it's just so "unfair" that we have the standard of living that we do... and by god these commies are going to change it.... it's called "fairness"...

But what do I know... I'm just a no nothing neanderthal who's opinion doesn't really matter to politicians and beaurocrats...

And besides... I don't have an opinion one or the other... not really....

Make it a great day...!!!

Ed:

I would not say that you do not have an opinon. It sounds like you definitely do. I also realize that there is a water problem in California. I have heard that from others.

To Everyone:

Thank you for your comments and for this lively discussion. I appreciate everyone's input to this important topic.

Claudette, Cap and trade is going to be onerous. It is going to create lots of victims not just housing. I am and always have been against "Point of Sale" anything , as is it is clearly a determent to private property rights. There are many excellent comments here to your post and I will park here to glean more of the sentiments of our members. Like one of your other commenters, I am afraid of this new government and where we may be heading as a nation.

Of course it's going to effect our industry as well as many others. I can't see this as a good thing! Just another layer of bureaucrocy the the government is laying upon our great nation. Every time the think they're helping, they're making things worse! Same goes for nationalized healthcare!

William, in the Cleveland Ohio area we have an active Point of Sale inspection process already (see post #41). Your stance against it is well founded. We have the empirical data to back up how deterimental it has been to the communities.

This bill is not good for our future business and its not good for the American Public for the resale of there homes and the increase utilities cost that will take place with the energy industry. The Utility Industry are already planning to increase the cost of electricity & heating fuels for the consumers. So how is a family struggling right now in this bad economy going to pay for the increase cost in there utility bills. As a former utility energy engineer for a large electric and gas company, I know this is going to hurt the people in my state and the country. Its going to raise cost for everyone.

I have already contacted my representatives in Washington to "Vote NO" for this bill. I have also called NAR to express my concerns with this bill. I would hope everyone in out industry has already or will contact their representative to "Vote NO".

same was said when goverment imposed energy requirement in appliances,

guess what? you still buy appliances

Fact, this nation waste too much energy, time to pony up and require all homes at transaction to meet a minimun energy standard''Ghheeze

Often our representatives don't know the ramifications of the small print. They won't even pass a law allowing 72 hours to review a final bill before voting on it!

Dear "silly people,"

Get a real estate license or go back to flipping burgers, where you came from.

Pat Daniels

Long Beach, CA

This sounds like a rediculous bill to me. As many have said already, I cannot imagine any banks, upside down sellers, courts, or dilusional sellers agreeing to make energy efficency repairs to property before selling. Considering that housing is a major portion of our economy, requiring these improvements in order to sell would be a bad policy to put into place

I can more easily see the government coming up with more incentives for making homes more energy efficient by tightening building codes, or offering more tax breaks for homeowners to upgrade to better enrgy efficiecy. Some of this would be ok, but I do believe that greener is becoming more the standard regardless of government involvement. Energy efficent homes save owners money. Therefore, as green design becomes more and more common, and less expensive, people will invest in it. It's capatilsm...unitl the gov't gets too involved.

Let's get real, JUST EXACTLY HOW HIGHER TAXES STIMULATES THE ECONOMY? This Cap and Trade thing is nothing but higher taxes. It will drag the econmy further down as we all know. We definitely should get the extention of the $8,000 TAX CREDIT. We all know it produced good results.

All these reforms are not designed to deliver the correct remedies to these chaotic economy. It will actually make it worst. These are not real reforms, they are about more , and more government control. The governemnt now controls the banking industry, the auto industry, now more higher taxes with Cap & TRade ? Lastly, controlling the health care industry too ! We are in trouble folks.

When are we going to wake up?

If that is the case, the goverment will probably have to come up with some kind of a program that will pay for this like the $8k credit. Bad enough that the buyers will need their closing cost covered and sellers (banks) don't want to do anything on that property (sold as is condition). Who is going to pay for this? Hmmm....interesting.

Charita King

Century 21 My Real Estate

562-276-8681

In addition to that, I think NAR will have to do something about it...They can't just sit in their and let this thing to happen.

It is hard to imagine that the government would put undue restrictions on sellers to be able to sell their homes especially in light of the fact that Real Estate markets around the country have been battered. This would add insult to injury. I doubt it will happen.

Charita:

I mentioned earlier my surprise that NAR has actually distanced themselves from this bill. I find that disappointing.

Bill:

You are a breath of fresh air. I totally agree. I just can't imagine it happening.

The people who control government, from the President on down, are not stopping to think about the consequences - or to think at all - before they rush headlong into action.

The Stimulus bill that was not read is demonstration enough of that.

When you think about it, what has government done this year that's been GOOD for anyone except banks and politicians? There's been plenty of discussion here about the down side of the first time buyer credit, and I can see more downside to that coming in the future.

The cash for clunkers was hugely expensive - costing more than it saved - and it put many out of the running to even own a car when those old but still serviceable cars were destroyed. Meanwhile, I foresee a glut of repossessions on the market in the near future, because people who couldn't really afford to buy a new car did it anyway - trading their old paid-for clunker for monthly payments they can't afford.

I'm all for downsizing - and telling government to get their noses out of everything except what the Constitution gave them permission to regulate. Trouble is, they've built such a huge burocracy doing things they shouldn't have been doing, if they did go back to the basics it would put thousands out of work.

Not that I think that shouldn't happen - government workers are a drain on private enterprise because we have to pay the taxes that pay their wages. But it needs to happen slowly - as in no new hiring - or would create a new disaster.

Don't assume that government will do the right thing - assume that they'll fail to think - and then do the wrong thing.

Claudette,

This is such a great post I plan to reblog it once I complete some additional research. I want to see how some of my national RealNova.Com partners feel about this. Also, I would like to see what NAR plans are in addressing this industry critical issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about the "GREEN INIATIVES". However, timing is everything and this may not be the best time to implement programs and policies that may have a negative impact on real estate resells.

Thanks,
K. Spann
RealNova.Com

In Seattle we recently avoided a "mandatory" energy audit at time of sale. The Seattle King County Association of Realtors was successful in convincing the City of Seattle that "mandatory" energy audits at point of sale would be harmful to sellers and impact our housing market negatively. Seattle has a large number of older single family housing stock and condos. Homeowners now have the opportunity to upgrade and make their homes more energy efficient and take advantage of Federal Tax Credits.

As realtors we embrace the concept of making homes more energy efficient but not a Point of Sale energy audit associated with a score which will negatively affect the sellers and the sale of homes in our area.

Our motto is "do no harm".

On a pragmatic matter, when real estate sales are left unimpaired and able to flourish everyone benefits. Our entire US economy depends on a "healthy real estate market"!

A more wholistic approach to cap and trade must be encouraged through education of our Congress, Senators and those in Government who are making the decisions every day which affect our industry and the primary investment of middle class Americans.

EVERY REALTOR SHOULD CONTACT CONGRESS NOW and ask them to take a more balanced approach to CAP AND TRADE and to support voluntary energy upgrades for homeowners. Consumer education should drive the change we all seek not mandatory government regulations.

Jolene Anderson

Volunteer on the Mayor's Green Task Force City of Seattle

Representing Seattle King County Association of Realtorsc

Marte:

Thank you so much for your comments. I understand your sentiments; however, I am hoping that the government will do the right thing.

Karen:

Thank you for that. Please reblog away.

I have been looking for more information on NAR's position on this bill and I was able to find the following from Realtor.org. I believe it was from June:

What is the fundamental issue?

Pending before Congress is climate change legislation that includes energy efficiency provisions both for commercial and residential buildings. NAR policy supports reasonable approaches and incentives, but not individual building mandates particularly if they are imposed at time of sale.

I'm a Realtor®. What does this mean to my business?

At risk is Realtors' ability to close on buildings without having to conduct energy audits and improvements to heating and cooling systems, windows, lighting, and insulation.

NAR Policy:

The policy supports:
- Commercially reasonable and incentive-based approaches to reduce energy use and greenhouse gases;
- Solutions that are guided by market and smart growth principles of protecting private property rights and maintaining real estate affordability and availability; and
- Educating property owners and consumers about the benefits and importance of energy efficiency.

It opposes:
- Requirements which impose undue economic burdens on property owners or managers;
- Triggering such requirements especially at the time when residences or buildings are sold; and
- Expanded application of existing laws or regulations that are not suited to address climate change.

So, it does seem as though they did take a position on this, however, I have not been able to find the exact wording of the current proposed bill.

If you have any luck in finding it I would be interested in knowing how it is worded.

Jolene:

That is interesting. Your situation came down to a state level and you were successful.

I think many Realtors would agree with you that we should be concerned with making homes more energy efficient but do it in a way that would not be at "point of sale" which would be a great burden on the selling public and hurt the housing market.

I agree that we should contact Congress on this. Perhaps I will send them this entire thread.

Claudette- You are correct, the NAR was all but silent on the Cap and Trade bill. Sure they sent out a call to action opposing 1 part of the bill but their lack of public comments by the "leader" of the NAR is disappointing to say the least.

It has been my position for a few years now that the NAR should have a PROFESSIONAL EXECUTIVE at the helm and throw away the civic association good old boy network kind of leadership.

We are one of the largest lobbying groups in the country and for the NAR not to come out against this economy killing bill shows their incompetence! Hell, when is the last time you saw someone from the NAR on TV?

We need to hire a full time CEO and pay him or her well to PROTECT US!

Larry:

The fact that NAR has not been vocal about this is a bit disturbing. I have been hard-pressed to find much at all on their point of view which is surprising on a bill that could have such an impact on the real estate industry.

Claudette -- Since the early 90s, all new construction in Alaska was energy rated. Energy standards are high here. Though only one type of financing requires energy ratings, most don't. But, buyers expect new homes to be energy efficient. We're workiing at our part.

This bill is absolutely frightening to a free society. Should this pass, big government will come into our homes and tell us we need a new dishwasher to sell our home. And, by the way, we also need new windows, exterior doors, garage doors, insulation, heating system, garage unit heater, hot water heater, maybe even my well pump, exhaust fans, garbage disposal. and lighting fixtures. I can't even imagine what else, but I know it's more than most people can afford.

But I live in the city. I live in Anchorage. There are small communities in rural Alaska that have outdoor toilets, and use whatever they can burn as well as heating oil. Talk about environmentally unfriendly.

This is definitely a BIG bucks demand, coming from BIG government that wants to be bigger. This has nothing to do with the environment and alternative sources of energy. It's all about making government bigger. Even a propane toilet uses energy. Or, maybe the government can expand employment by putting lots of people to work digging water and sewer lines thousands of miles into the rural communities.

OMG, this is the most amazing response I have ever seen. Most of what I read is just pure nonsense. Socialism, afraid of government, no such thing as global warming, etc, etc, etc. Where are all these crazy opinions coming from?

First of all, government is always trying to control us and run us. What else is new? What do you expect? It does not matter if you are here, or in a socialist country, or a kingdom, or a dictatorship, someone is always telling us what to do. The only difference between any of these countries, is how it comes down and who is actually in control. In a capitalist country like ours, it comes down to the corporations and lobbies. Plain and simple. Take away their power, and then you can tell me that our elected officials actually make decisions. They do not. That is why Bush could not run all his agenda, nor can Obama. Don't blame any of them or any other government officials for what we do. Look at our powerful lobbyists and our powerful corporations. Get rid of them, and then we may actually have a democracy.

Those of you who call the case for global warming fake are living in your own fantasy. You might as well believe in the tooth fairy. Does it not matter to you that over 99% of the scientists in this field agree that we have a deadly serious problem? Maybe you can afford to ignore it in your fantasy world, but our future generations may look back at what we ignored for so long as the most stupid behavior ever exhibited by any generation. As for cap and trade, that is a complete waste of time and is a piecemeal approach to a gigantic problem to satisfy corporate greed and make it look like they are doing something.

We need major change, and we need it now. This country is falling fast just like every other empire in the history of the world. I see no way to stop it as long as we are putting on bandades when we need major surgery. The only way this can happen is to get rid of corporate and lobbyist influence. Then we can make sensible decisions based on actual factual information and not what they are trying to shove down our throats.

I do not think we can do this because most people only have their own interests at heart. We all have to suck it up and suffer quite a bit to make these kinds of changes and I do not think that as a nation we are quite up to it. But, I will keep on trying to spread the word. I hope some of you will join me.

Jirius- I am glad that I don't live in the same United States as you do. The ONLY way this country will fail is if people who think like you do control it.

You can buy the fictional 99% of scientists but you don't see the global warming lobby as a problem? Where do you think these imaginary scientists get their money? The democrats, GE and everyone else who stands to gain by a con job like "global warming" err I mean "climate change" or whatever they change the name to next year to suck you in. You are living in a fantasy!

Natural events warmed the planet after the Ice age and the Little Ice Age and thats what is going on now.

Larry. You are right with your last sentence, but that has nothing to do with the recent global warming. In fact that theory is from those same scientis that you denounce. It is happening too quickly to be explained by that statement. You are ignoring the science and the scientists because of your incredible believe system. These 99% of scientists are motivated by their science and their caretakership of the earth that God asked us to take on. You would have us destroy our precious earth by ignoring the facts and raping the earth. Corporate greed, not individual persons, neither you nor I are in control of this country. If you think any of us are that important to the fate of the earth, you are deceiving yourself again in this regard as well.

Show me the evidence, Larry. Not a few peoples opinion.

SEP

Jirlus- These scientists get paid to do studies, like I said before they get paid by people who are vested in this fraud.

Global warming has never been proved, there is no evidence that it is happening.

Global warming truthers ignore the Ice age and Little Ice age examples. What caused it to warm up? Well it wasn't my SUV thats for sure! The planet warms and cools, sun activity, and natural occurring events cause the temps to go up and down. It has been getting colder, hell it snowed in Iraq for the first time in over 100 years recently!

If you want to ignore these facts above just think about this.

The means of reading the temperature has changed greatly over the last 100 years. Only 50 years ago we were reading it by looking through a sight glass attached to a piece of metal and depending on the height or angle at which it was read. There are too many variables to count these readings, even the eyesight of the reader so those numbers are in question and we are to believe that a increase of .2 degrees in the average earthstemp over the last 50 years is man made and must be true? There has been no accurate way to determine temps for the thousands of years prior, none.

Algore is doing this for money, GE is doing it for money and "scientists" who need to justify their existence are doing it for money.

People who buy this crap are doing so because they have been tricked or want to feel important by claiming that they need to save the planet for generations to come. How wonderful they must feel to know think that they are saving the planet!

Sorry to burst your bubble, nothing personal but that's the truth, you are not more powerful than nature.

Jirius & Larry:

Thank you for contributions to this discussion. There is much to be learned from all of the differing points of view on this issue.

Pauline:

That is interesting about the high energy standards for new homes in Alaska. But, what a contrast - allowing so many outhouses to still be in existence. Those must take a toll on the environment.

I agree, this bill is a bit frightening. We need to do something to save our planet, but I think there are better ways that this.

Claudette, This is a very important topic. Thank your for your great post. I have not had time to read all of the comments but from what I can tell it has gotten pretty emotional and political. As William said, point-of-sale regulations are not supported by NAR so any energy regulations will be best if they apply to all housing. The problem is that this is extremely hard to do. The reality is that we are probably facing a future where energy audits will be the norm as a "green" Realtor I think that would be good for all. Even if there isn't legislation to require them, the market will. It just might take a little longer. Green is here to stay. I hope Realtors will lead these efforrts rather than impede them.

The idea of "energy-efficient" homes is a misnomer. We can only talk about "more energy-efficient" homes. Anything humans do impacts the environment, and allowing the government to determine the level at which we should be allowed to impact it is arbitrary and dangerous. The cap and trade system will only be a way to cut out small business and invite corruption. Its purpose is not to limit damage to the environment (just like a cigarette tax is not meant to limit smoking). It's a revenue- generating scheme. Hypocrisy at its best! I'm not against doing what we can to mitigate our negative impact on the environment, but new technology is always expensive, and until it can become affordable for regular people, it should not be mandatory. It is just ridiculous and unfair.

Diane A.:

I agree that Green is coming and we all need to do our part. The key issue is for energy efficiency to be phased in and encouraged by incentives. There has to be a way to do it that will not break the housing market since it is still in recovery mode.

Diane S:

The cigarette tax is not meant to limit smoking? I thought it was. It does turn into revenue-generating, but I think the intent was also to discourage smoking.

I think it is becoming an indisputable fact that homes will have to be made more energy-efficient. How we get there is a the critical question.

Everything has an impact on home sales. All your points may have a direct impact but even if not, then:

Cap and Trade will have an impact on energy prices ===> energy prices will have an impact on home sales.
Cap and Trade will have an impact on employment issues ====> employment issues will have an impact on home sales.

Etc.

Rick:

It is a vicious cycle. That is certain.

Claudette, Thank you for thanking Larry and myself.

Larry, You did not burst my bubble because I am not in a bubble, you are. The science regarding carbon emissions is irrefutable, no matter what your theory is. I do not want to detail it here, but I would suggest that you start doing some serious studying so you can burst your own bubble, because it is impenetrable from the outside. By the way, Al Gore has plenty of money and is not in this for the money. That would be the same as saying Bill Gates is in it for the money with his work through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

I would love to read through all the comments, but I'll have to come back another time to do that.

I'm all for cap and trade because my other business is as a home inspector, and I see environmental inspections as a good ancillary service that I can provide. I think it will create jobs, especially if the lenders or the law require certain things to be upgraded.

Good old Al Gore is already setting up a fund to capitolize on the companies that will be paying more. It is a crock.

Of course it is going to impact our sales. Keep government out of the private sector.

Always allow a free market to dictate what we want in a home, not Congress. The government is not all knowing and all seeing. contact your reps and senators and block this cap and trade bill....or as many call it, crap & tax bill.

Jirrius,

You say 99% of the Scientist agree. Please EXPLAIN these 31,000 do not!!! there are only about 200 on the UN

http://www.petitionproject.org/

And there is the PROBLEM the earth (according to NASA) is getting COLDER! For the last 10 years now.

Although this is a great article and some great comments, I suggest each one of us in the real estate industry take the time to write our public policy officials at NAR and your state associations.

Cap and Trade would ruin the real estate and connstruction industry as we know it. From sales, to affordable construction to the dilema of getting rid of properties that would cost more to rehabilitate than to build new.

Another factor in this is the toll this bill would take on cooperative electric companies who are already looking ar alternative fuels, many of whom have invested milllions in renewable energy sources. Natural gas stores are at an all time high, but the government would have you believe we have no alternatives. Government control is cutting into every facet of your lives, those who are foolish enough to believe it is all for the "universe" think again. Every action is money driven by private investors just as Al Gore who spent millions of your tax dollars in contracting to build energy efficient cars than the average American will never be able to afford to drive. (by the way, they are NOT built in America).

Be prudent, be wise,.. and get informed. Talk to your associations, and to your legislators. Cap and Trade not just one, but about ten leaps toward government control of your everyday life.

Jirius- Good Sir, you tell me that global warming is real and "The science regarding carbon emissions is irrefutable." Yet you fail to address the points I made above and say 99% of scientists agree with you and algore doesn't need the money so he is telling the truth? That's weak my friend.

John posted this link above http://www.petitionproject.org/ that 99% is incorrect.

SEP

Great post, Ms. Millette. In answer to your question, in a word, YES! "Cap & Tax" will kill the economy by raising taxes and increasing energy costs while doing NOTHING to help the environment. The Obama administration has admitted as much, according to CBS News.

To Mr. Isaac: There is actually more evidence of global COOLING than of warming, anthropogenic or otherwise. Even if one were to accept the premise that the earth is warming (which I don't), solar activity rather than human would be the more likely cause. Consider also that climate models are notoriously inaccurate due to the complexity of the ecosystem and the failure by climatologists to take into account factors such as solar activity and water vapor as the predominant "greenhouse gas".

Scientists, being human, are often motivated by factors other than the pursuit of objective scientific truth, such as ego (don't want to admit they could be wrong), economics (don't want to lose their funding) or even political considerations. To think otherwise is naive and shortsighted. You really should open your mind to alternative ideas, my friend. It's the "progressive" thing to do.

What Jolene may not be aware of is that in the State of Washington our legislature tried and failed to pass their own version of a Cap and Trade bill that state analysts said "would double our cost for every kind of energy in 5 years."

Citizens were grateful the bill did not pass - all except our glorious Governor. Within weeks of the end of the last legislative session she, by "executive order", created a Cap and Trade program for the State of Washington. The only thing the program doesn't have is the tax part, which she believes the State Legislature will pass in the next session.

For those who think our State or Federal Government has our best interests at heart - think again. They will act with or without the approval of the people who elected them and who are their "bosses".

I have an idea. Since CO2 is deemed to be bad for the environent... everybody in the world can hold their breath for 1 minute about 15 times a day. 15 minutes per day X 365 days X 6.7 billion X CO2 saved per minute = a lot of CO2. Of course millions of defenseless plants will sufficate.

Scott Perrry and all the others out ther that do not believe humans are causing some of the global warming and think that scientists because they are human or how they are paid are getting bought out, does that exclude you. Do you not think that any potential evidence or change that affects your bottom line dollars is not effecting how you see the world? Most of the corporations and businesses that are shoving this no global warming going on down are throats are doing so because it is in their best interests to do so.

It is the same as the $8000 tax credit. How many realtors are against it? And yet, in the long run, is it good for our economy? Maybe not. Yes, there are a lot of factors that relate to global warming, but there are a few things that we humans are doing to contribute and we do not want to stop doing so because it is inconvenient and expensive. And that is the bottom line. You can make a case for either side. But, just follow the power of the majority of the vested interest and you will see who has the most to lose or gain.

Jeff- That is the best comment on this subject that I have seen since this issue came up. I love it!

Jirius- You said "corporations and businesses that are shoving this no global warming going on down are throats are doing so because it is in their best interests to do so."

Jirius, WE are the corporations and businesses and citizens who are having this shoved down OUR throats by YOU and the democrats in government.

No one is telling us what to say or think, we make our own decisions and have decided that cap and trade and this fascist way of thinking is not what we want sir.

I submit to you, Mr. Isaac, that it is the height of human arrogance to assume that mankind is able to have any significant effect on the climate of this planet. Furthermore, most people who call themselves "environmentalists" don't really care about the environment, at least not outside their own sphere of influence. In the now-famous words of humorist George Carlin, "narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me." The planet is fine.

I don't find it hard to believe at all that the government would make it more difficult at this time or any time to sell homes. You don't have to look any further then HVCC to find evidence of that.

I am not a democrat, but you guys that do not believe in global warming are obviously republicans. I am an independent thinker. The Rand Corporation is a conservative think tank. They do think that humans are adding to global warming. there are no republicans or democrats shoving anything down anyones throat because they have no power to do so. Both parties would love to, by the way. But you guys only see one side of it.

For example, we cannot solve the health care insurance crisis because of insurance, pharmaceutical, and attorney lobbyists. They are the problem and they have a lot of clout because of their size, money and sole aim to take care of themselves. I do not care what party they belong to. They are the problem because they care only about their own self interests. Realltors do the same, but they do not have as much power

I am done responding to any more of this nonsense. This has nothing to do with politics. I hope you can eventually see that. Good luck to all of you. I hope you can step outside your own tunnels.

Thank you everyone for your interesting and thought-provoking comments.

Please be sure to check my latest post with some updated information on this subject:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/1258169/correction-re-cap-and-trade-bill-nar-does-care-about-us

Thank you again.

- Claudette

Jirius- I never said you were a democrat and I am not a Republican. I do agree with you that lobbys have too much power and we need to take that power back. Tax reform is the way.

The people who are making this a political issue ARE mainly democrats. obama said our electric bills will "skyrocket" yet you help him with this plan.

We are not killing the planet, its a hoax and you have bought into it sir

Cap and Trade is really all about TRADE - trade the credits back and forth like a bushel of corn or a barrel of oil in the trade board and pocket the premium! It will do nothing for anyone in our profession or for our customers and clients.

What will happen when the $8,000 tax credit expires and the latest flood of REOs hits YOUR neighborhood? All the appraisers marking "Stable" or "Increasing" prices on the 1004MC will have been wrong.

I hope that this is not the case Claudette. Most Sellers have very little equity to work with as it is.

Cap and trade is going to pass, so why argue if it is good or bad? Of course it will be bad for the economy, jobs, us, etc., but hey, at least the lawyers will be getting paid. And that is why it will pass. Who do you think writes the bills? The other reason it will pass is that everyone is so preoccupied with healthcare, no one has noticed this has already passed the house. Oh well, get ready to double your electricity costs.

SEP

Let's face it, government officials are just smarter than we are. Cap and Trade is just one of a long line of bills that have been in the wings waiting to take off to make our lives better. Look at the Community Reinvestment Act. A wonderful piece of legislation, the crafters of which are still safely ensconsed on CapitAl Hill.

Besides, Cap and Trade has been a huge success in Europe. According to the EU Commission, from 2004 to 2007, household energy costs rose by 16% on average in the 25 EU countries and industrial rates rose by 32%. How wonderful.

No new taxes on those earning less than $250,000 per year? Heck, let's just call it a fee.

In the US, the number of refineries and total capacity to produce gasoline in the U.S. peaked in 1981, with 324 refineries able to process 18.6 million barrels of crude oil a day. Today, with U.S. demand for oil more than 20% higher, refinery capacity is roughly 17% lower. Waxman-Markey would reduce that figure to 12.2 million barrels a day from its current production rate of 14.5 million from just 141 active refineries. I sure hope these climate change policies will prevent hurricanes from entering the Gulf of Mexico. If you make gasoline expensive enough, who knows, maybe electric cars will be affordable. There's some change you can believe in.

The real estate provisions in Cap and Trade will either compel home sellers to buy what they might not be able to afford to pass a "suitability" standard or drive home buyers to buy only new construction. Will NAR scrap "As Is"? What will happen to offer/counter-offer based on valuation? My recommendation?

Watch what companies politicians buy stock in and follow suit. Companies like Pella, Maytag, Toll Brothers, etc. Why? When Gore left office in January 2001, he was said to have a net worth in the neighborhood of $2 million. A mere eight years later, estimates are that he is now worth about $100 million. He's invested in or rented his good name to various funds and trusts whose goal is to make money from "climate change" businesses.

Who says going green doesn't have to include greenbacks.

OCT

Diane #97: First, the cigarette tax was conceived to reduce smoking related health problems; just like the bill running through HOUSEcommittees to add a 4% surtax on all times of food that uses or contains sugar( IE milk, bread, baked products, soda, enriched water, etc) yogurt to reduce obesity related health problems; reduce waste in our dumps by adding 3% surtax on product containers. Like any new Congress bill it will create jobs on one side & reduce jobs on the opposite side. I have seen new businesses locally that to increase efficiency & reduce waste caused by human error are using automation (factory that 5 yrs ago would require 100 employees now need just 25). I agree that Eco-friendly building codes are good on many levels but if to be mandatory then mandate on new construction not on older buildings.

Cap & Trade will probably pass. It will create jobs but the unintended consequences is also a loss of jobs. As has happen locally, when businesses see a net capital loss to their stockholders (IE textile & furniture mills) the jobs move overseas with lower business costs. The idea of mandating energy efficiency on older buildings is ludicrous; do you think REO/Bank owed properties are going to be fixed to meet this standard; I don't think so as they are already selling homes "As Is w/ no repairs" w/ no HVAC systems.

As for environmentalists, IMO follow a plan of do as I say not as I do. They are so concern about the environment that they fly or drive to their meetings and usually by themselves (don't count the pilot, the aircrew or support staff). Use technology to hold your meetings or use public/commercial transportation to get where you have to be. I have seen real estate caravans using multiple cars instead of 1 bus for all; excuse is always I have to meet a customer so I have to drive myself so I can meet them when they call. How about having customer meet at office then carpool to see properties? Don't say you're for protecting the environment but then drive by yourself to multiple properties to show a customer his/her list of homes.

Finally, For all the "climate warming" people, I read somewhere in a scientific journal that a steady increase in human carbon footprint was showing up in Arctic ice samples around the 1700's sandwiched between volcanic ash from eruptions in Europe & South Pacific. It then jumped dramatically during the industrial revolution & expansion. A simple but extreme solution to significantly reduce human carbon is for the world to revert to a 1700 business model & we all become farmers.

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