There was a time I complained publically about the dire state of our healthcare. I didn't buy into the right wing arguments that the US had the BEST healthcare in the world; after all, there were all these numbers coming out that kept contradicting those statements, like our infant mortality rate, and life-expectancy rate when compared to other nations. But I must retract. I was wrong.

We MUST have the best Healthcare in the world, if only because WE are paying twice as much for it as Norway, France, the UK, Canada, et al. Of course, in those countries, every person is, indeed, covered by the government, and we all know that governments are corrupt, inefficient, and, at times, downright evil. We, the greatest nation in the world, rely on the inherent goodness of Private Insurance Companies. Profit-driven, they know that what's best for us is to shut the hell up, and be glad that we live in a free country, where they are free to grant us the safety of insurance or not, and where we are free to pay our own damned medical bills if we are un-insurable. If they had to take on additional risk of insuring those who might actually require care, we are good enough capitalists to realize that our premiums would have to be raised, cause the stocks have to keep climbing; cause the profit margins only travel in one direction, and that's up, and god knows patriotic Americans will not begrudge insurance giants their hefty profits - they earned it.

They earn it every time they say ‘no' to a claim to a paying customer, and can't be sued for it. They earn it by instituting internal policies that reward denials of claims, no matter their validity in the hopes that the customer gives up, or dies. They earn it by being good enough at what they do to recognize that Obesity can strike one as young as four-months-old, and it's simply a great business decision to deny the fat baby coverage, for years to come. Mama should starve the bastard, so he loses a few ungainly pounds, no matter that his pediatrician considers him healthy.

They earn it when they understand that acne in teens is a sign of cancer in the future, and why the hell would I want to pay for some broad who couldn't keep her face clean, while ridden with all those hormones. Or for the idiot woman who stays in an abusive relationship and gets beat up, but is too stupid to keep it to herself, and still wants to get medical insurance...

I'd say fuck ‘em. Forget reform. It boils down to our priorities, and being good capitalists that we are, there is only ONE that matters: keeping our Insurance Companies Making healthy profits in perpetuity. They are the modern day heroes of our economy, and we must keep them happy, healthy and swimming in dough. So I don't mind paying $7,900 a year one way or the other to keep them in business, and still not have any coverage. I am a patriot.
If only I had the confidence of some that there was a God to take care of me, should I get sick.

So, by all means, vote NO on the bloody idiotic bill in front of you, dear elected officials. Because for as long as Anyone's health is going to hinge on the good graces of private insurance, we, the people, will be no better of than before, only some of us might end up in jail for failing to pay our premiums.

Of course, there is that silver lining of government provided healthcare while incarcerated...

First Published on www.CoffeeDrinkersUnite.com - a social network for the progressive types.  If you have something to say and Huff Post won't print it - say it on coffeedrinkers :-)

 
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73 Comments on I retract - We HAVE THE BEST healthcare in the WORLD! No need to vote!

OCT
13

Well maybe there should be no insurance companies at all.  That would surely solve the problem of the insurance companies.  No government involvement but paying the doctors and hospitals with chickens and pigs. Yeah, that's the ticket.  Or maybe the government could take over the training of medical personal and they would all be government employees.  Yeah, maybe that's the ticket.

12:42pm • #1
2 Featured Posts

Ross - yep, I am sure that's what they do in Norway and Canda, pay with pigs and chickens... Thank you for your brilliant comment, as always.

12:48pm • #2

A brilliant comment for a brilliant post.  What could be more fitting?

12:49pm • #3
2 Featured Posts

Ross - go follow someone who cares about your statements.  I don't. You've shown yourself as a rather nasty, disrespectful moron in your past comments on this platform, and I have no interest in engaging you or debating with you.  So yep, from one of the most ardent free speech supporters here, get lost.

12:52pm • #4

As a business woman, are you obligated to accept every person who comes to you wanting to use your service?  A simple yes or no will do.

12:55pm • #5
2 Featured Posts

Ross - as a human being, I would not do business with you or shake your hand.  Hopefully that answers all your questions.  Now, be good, and go elsewhere.

12:56pm • #6

But you expect others to do business with you wheather they wanted to or not, is that correct?  Taking this one step further, a doctor is required to treat everyone no matter what just because he is a doctor?  Simple yes or no will do.

12:58pm • #7
2 Featured Posts

Comment #7 ignored due to being idiotic in nature.

12:59pm • #8

Can you imagin just how many people would not have medical care if there were no insurance companies and everyone had to pay out of pocket for all their medical services?  Geez, those GD insurance companies are so evil.

1:04pm • #9
2 Featured Posts

Ross - I was not aware that the only way to recieve medical care is to have an insurance company as the middleman of the transaction... Hmmm, who would have thunk... Again, high level thinking there. 

1:09pm • #10

It is all those evil companies who produce medical supplies, all those evil medical colleges, all those evil hospitals, all those evil doctors and nurses, all the evil people in this country who charge to much and many people can not afford the cost of goods and services.  They are all so evil evil evil.  It is just too damn bad that it cost so much to grow old.

1:12pm • #11

Is insurance what the health care bill is all about? Providing affordable insurance for everyone.  So you think that without insurance(the middleman) many would be able to afford medical services?

1:13pm • #12
185,858 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Inna - I am disgusted with this whole situation.  I can't even imagine anyone believing our health care system is fine as is.  I can't imagine anyone saying all humans don't deserve health care.  I don't get it. 

As for government run health care, I received FAR superior care when my daughter was little and we were on our state run insurance.  We even had dental coverage, imagine that. 

1:15pm • #13
2 Featured Posts

Ross - your comments #11 and #12 are also ignored due to overwhelming stupidity.

Chris - yep, I know.... But hey, so long as we can hold on to appearances, accurate or not, that we are better than those other awful countries - I suppose it's worth sacrificing some 22,000-100,000 lives per year, cause, well, it wouldn't have made economic sense to save 'em.

1:29pm • #14

#12 is about providing insurance to everyone and I agree with you that you have defined it superbly, it is overwhelming stupid because that will not provide quality care for all.

1:35pm • #15
308,795 Points Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Inna - You are in rare form today, why is it they call me the bully of AR, you do the same as I do, yet is it because you are a liberal you get away with it, and still look good in the eyes of your gang? 

Where is John Secor saying you are a bully, why because he agrees with you.

Chris, no comment about Inna calling Ross stupid and idiotic in nature? 

1:39pm • #16
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OMG - Ross - why don't you actually read the post, and follow the links in it - you might actually learn something.  It does work. 

1:39pm • #17
2 Featured Posts

My dear Nick - I was referencing the content of what Ross posted, not that of his brain.

1:41pm • #18
308,795 Points Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Inna - I don't find it offensive, really. I just don't know why all the libs can do it without being called a bully or name calling, and they don't say that to you.

Sometimes it is all that needs to be said. 

I enjoy opposing views, and heated debates. I just want to know why your friends don't have things to say to you, but they are quick to judge others who have opposing views.

1:44pm • #19

OMG - Inna - I hope you have had first hand experience with medicare and medicade.  I just love listening to the great men and women discussing the health care agenda.  "government will set up private run organizations to provide be the middle man for your health care" and I do know these organizations will be just as effective as all the other government/private run entities, you can bet on it as a sure thing.  So, if you truely believe the government can provide for you, good luck.

1:49pm • #20
2 Featured Posts

Well, Nick - then I guess you are posing this question to the wrong person.  I can't answer for anyone but myself, so you'd do better for yourself asking those libs you are referencing why they are being silent on the subject of my bullying behaviour.

1:50pm • #21
308,795 Points Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Inna - Its that sense of honor altruism, again...sorry. I will keep silent now, like a good socialist.

1:52pm • #22
1 Featured Post

Inna - I like the cut of your jib sailor!  Seems I recognize the style, you hit this one out of the park.  Good that you are dismissing Russ, that pink shirt of his is hurting my eyes.  Too bad we can't convince the idol worshiping capitalists in these parts that there is a better way of approaching health care than from the wall street profit standpoint.  Personally, I don't care much for the Baucaus bill but at least it would be a step in the right direction, the house versions are much better but still too toothless to tame the insurance monster deregulation created.

1:59pm • #23

John,

You are a punk now are't are you not?

2:05pm • #24
1 Featured Post

Ross - yes, and aren't you an insecure bully that everyone on the play ground hated?

2:20pm • #25

John,

No, I was the one the bullies hated.

2:22pm • #26
2 Featured Posts

Nick - hmmm, ok...

John - thank you for the comment and compliments.  I disagree with your assessment of this bill's affect, if you will.  Now that it has been voted through - in my opnion we have lost any chance we may have had for being able to fight for public option.  I don't buy into certain brand of compromise, not one that threatens to force the American Public to purchase Insurance without enabling them to do so in a cost effective manner. I think it's a travesty, and the Insurance Lobby won - they just acquired a whole lot more customers without having to work for it.

Ross - please refrain from insulting my commenters.  Feel free to insult what they say, just not their person, Hope it's clear enough of a distinction for yah.

2:25pm • #27

Inna,

Sure, but is it a clear enough distinction for some of your commenters?

2:31pm • #28
2 Featured Posts

Ross - I believe I stated as nicely as I could that I have no desire to have any debate with you.  I am not interested in anything you have to say, and yes, it's personal, but this is my blog, and as such, I find no need or desire to expand on my opinion of you.  I did not write this post for you to hijack for whatever reason, hence, any and all comments made by you on this post from now on will be ignored. 

You really ought to just go play elsewhere.

2:34pm • #29

ok

2:36pm • #30
282,083 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

I just heard that the CEO of United Health Care has made, now sit down for this, $700,000.000 in the last five years in salary, bonuses, benefits, and stock options.  Does anyone think HE has to worry about getting a claim denied?

Great post!

2:55pm • #31
352,911 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Inna - you know what's weird - I largely agree with the main sentiment here. The Bill that passed the Senate committee today is a complete waste of time. But as you know from our private discussions I do think some health care reform is necessary. The thing is, we CAN do this because there is a lot we agree on. So let's start there. One issue at a time. A small one or two page Bill for each of them. We can agree for example, that denial for pre-existing conditions must go. Well then let's get rid of it. A two page Bill will achieve that. It can be law THIS WEEK!

The problem is we have politicians in the way - and lobbyists. And us Realtors need to take back our association. I believe that the Realtor Association was the third biggest contributor to campaign funds at the last election. Disgusting! Just like all the politicians are. It's time we took back OUR HOUSE! I think 2010 is going to be very interesting. I think there will be a large number of non affiliated candidates. Oh and Inna - you should run. I'm completely serious.

3:05pm • #32
Localism Sponsor

Inna,

I am not very astute when it comes down to the REAL battle over this Bill. I am reading most everything I can find on the pros and cons. And it seems we still have no idea what will be in the Final Bill.

What I do "Think"  is this.

This country needs Health Insurance Reform. Health CARE Reform. Many people in our Country should have the Right to be covered medically. Pre-existing conditions should be covered.

and most of all I 'think" the Republican members of the House and Senate would oppose peanut butter and jelly sandwiches if they found out Obama ate them. 

3:14pm • #33
352,911 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Why? Why the hate? Hate will only hurt you. I've rarely seen someone so full of it. Hate that is. Who is the "Right"? Am I part of the "Right"? If I am, then why the hate speech?

3:23pm • #34
185,858 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Nick - Why would I have something to say about Inna's comments to Ross? 

3:34pm • #35
Outside Blog

Simon said it nicely (#32).  Simple changes in the law, one at a time, starting with the biggest problems first. 

Inna, while I know there are folks who would say "no need for any change, I'm perfectly happy with my deal".  I really think, though, that most of us, even on the right, would agree that reform is needed.  Most of us just want to get the problems solved, not necessarily to turn the entire system on end.  We also want our representatives in government to represent us properly by understanding what they're voting for.  Is that so much to ask?

4:03pm • #37
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Terry - much to Hugh's chagrin, I enjoy using bad language on occasion:-)  As for how much any given CEO makes, I could care less, if that generous compensation was not contingent on whether people get care or not; contingent on whether we live or die... That's a bit high of a price to pay...

Simon - I am glad that we can find some agreement on this.  I don't think tort reform, dealing across state lines and mandating that no private insurance carrier could exclued pre-existing conditions or deny treatment would change the way our healthcare works in a meaningful enough way.  They way I see it, Insurance Companies will find a way to raise premiums if forced to increase risks, and if forced to become more competetive.  The one thing I don't foresee is Insurance Companies doing anything at all that would infringe on their profit margins, whether voluntarily or not so much.  Our banks right now are as good an indication as any that Profit would win over service or care.  Excessive overdraft charges might give one a heart attack at a younger age, but lack of medical insurance will be the thing that kills one.

 

4:14pm • #38
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Linda Mae - it's taken us so many years to come to this point that I really really want to be optimistic, small steps in the right direction and all that.  Sadly, with the Baucus bill, I don't see how people who are having the most difficulty right now with lack of halthcare will benefit from it.  I certainly do see how the few insurance giants would.

As for PB&J - you might be right.  It does seem that opposition is rather indiscriminate of facts or viable discussion at times, at least if we are to look at TV Punditry, TownHall protests and online political chatter.  If you listen in to the hearings - there is actual discourse and debate.  Viable questions being asked, and, yes, a few crazy remaks here and there. 

Simon at 34 - I am not sure what you are referring to with this... Please, explain.

4:19pm • #39
251,403 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

I do think that our healthcare system is absolutely fabulous.  What sucks is how the payment of money for services is handled?  We need to focus on ways to clean that system up and streamline it instead of all this 1000 page government monstrosity bill.

4:44pm • #40
109,508 Points 8 Featured Posts

After my post today, I have to keep my nose clean for at least a week and remain quiet. But after that I will add my voice to the single payor chorus :))

4:57pm • #41
282,083 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Inna, that was exactly my point.  While the CEO of UHC is making almost a billion dollars a year, how many people are filing bankruptsy, being denied procedures or medications, or dying.  Can you imagine how many people could be cared for with that amount of money?

6:53pm • #42
288,647 Points Outside Blog

Inna,

Nice new profrile picture Yes I am disappointed, I really have nothing new to add to this conversation that I haven't already expressed to you, just remeber the biggest arguments we have on AR or even in the political arena are all pretty meaningless in the long run.By all means stand up for what you believe in but don't let foolish things control you. With or without Health insurace we are all still going to reach our end on this earth.

8:42pm • #43

Good evening, Inna.

I have no solutions, and for brevity's sake I am only going to mention a couple of the problems I have recently encountered as a father and as a former Economics teacher. 

1.  Doctors and Hospitals exhibit monopoly power.  My daughters had to have their wisdom teeth out five weeks ago and I called four oral surgeons to get price quotes.  The price ranged from $700 to $1600 and our regular dentist spoke highly of all four oral surgeons.  I chose the surgeon who charged the least and you guessed it the bills came in at over $1200 for each daughter.  What can I do?  (there were no complications or extra teeth removed). 

2.  COMPETITON DOES NOT SEEM TO HELP    We now have two brand new hospitals in Lafayette, Indiana and do you think that they would share the incredibly expensive equipment or have Hospital A specialize in one area and let Hospital B specialize in another to save money?????  You guessed it we now have a medical "arms race" in town.

3.  BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR     If government is going to provide insurance- that means they now are responsible for the insurance claims.  Assuming that the government at some point cares about deficits they will act like any other health insurance company and be concerned about costs.  If the demand for services exceeds the supply of health care there will be shortages.  If the demand for health care exceeds the cost of it services will either have to be denied or more revenue will have to be found-again assuming that deficits do matter. 

I will stop here.  There needs to be careful thinking on all the angles why health care costs are so high and I hope the Republicans and Democrats can both overlook their special interests and do what is best for the nation.

WARNING:  This is a "hit and run" comment; I not believe in arguing or name calling.  This is Inna's blog.

Spaseeba!

 

8:48pm • #44
2 Featured Posts

Rob - I am happy you think that.  The views from the glass houses are always so much nicer, all pastels and violins.  Picture perfect.

My Jennifer - It's ok, i can wait a week to hear it again:-)

Terry- ok, point taken...

9:52pm • #45
2 Featured Posts

Hugh - I know how you feel, i really really do:-) And I sincerely appreciate you dropping by, even when you are disappointed.

 

 

9:57pm • #46
2 Featured Posts

Bruce, hi and thank you for your thoughtful cmmentary.  There is, of course, a monopoly on anything healthcare related.  We have threee major hospitals within 20 minutes of each other, and there is no sharing of resources either, but a rather active race to acquire the newest equippment, whether the population numbers dictate such purchases or not... That's competitive advantage, apparently. 

No wonder a trip to the ER and a five minute audience with a triage nurse can run you a grand:-(

As for government being in charge of insurance, I think maybe, just maybe there is something we can learn from countries that manage to provide care for everyone at a much smaller cost per capita...

PS: I am not accustomed to hit and run comments on my blogs - I promise there is no mob here, and you won't get mowed down for speaking your mind:-)

10:05pm • #47

Inna, you make an excellent case for reform. I believe it lies in the public option.

Some will disagree and the polls say whatever the current pundit cherry picking it wants it to say. But the truth is out there and kicking people off the insurance rolls for acne or for being beat up in a relationship, will ultimately come to end. Along with being rewarded with bonuses for saving the company's bottom dollar, instead of saving the life of a human being.

10:46pm • #48
588,980 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Please note when comparing IMR (Infant Mortality Rates) that the underlying data is not always comparable...  Many countries do not seem as transparent in their statistics as the US.  Some countries don't count live births if the infant is under 12" (Switzerland) or 500g (Austria and Gemany) or that hadn't gestated at least 26 weeks (France and Belgium).  Also of note, there are extemely high ratios of still births to infant deaths in the first 24 hours in Japan and Hong Kong... which might mean that babies dying within 24 hours of birth are recorded as still birth rather than as an infant death... 

Next, start looking at cancer survival rates in Europe v. the US.  The picture isn't as bright. 

source

source

I have looked at the WHO study, too... If you look at the measures of quality of care and distribution of care, the US is at or near the top.  When looking at cost of care, the US is not...  They marked down the care because it was expensive.  But even with the expense, the US ranked near the top for distribution of care... more of the population had access to care than even the socialized countries.  As an example, 5 million Canadians can't get a primary care doctor because there aren't enough.  Since Canada has 1/10 the population of the US, that would be like 50 million Americans only being able to get care in ERs because they don't have access to a family doctor... 

hhmmm...

11:23pm • #49
OCT
14
2 Featured Posts

Lane - how about we look at the mortality rates or cancer then.  The study that your source's article is based on is not only outdated, but has been deemed faulty (both, in research nd premise) by the ACS and varius cancer treatment centers.  For one thing, if you take the 5-year suvivorship rate and all other factors are exactly the same, then and only then can you draw a comparison, and any rasonable conclusions about the quality of care.  In the UK, the emphasis on screening is a rather new thing, so for, example, breast cancer detection in early 90s (sited in the study you reference) was quite a bit lower than in late 90s, where the survial rates were in line with that of US.  PS: We have an 11% in survivability rate between metro areas within the US, and an even larger discrepancy between races.

Mortality rates from cancer would make for a much more direct comparison, and a much more useful one for an average person.   Here you have the UK at number 16 with the lowest overal mortality rate from cancers at 253.5 cancer deaths per 100,000

The US is at #9 with 321.9 cancer deaths per 100,000  Click for Source.

Now, if you do the math, it would appear that your chances of dying from any cancer in the UK are 21% less than in th US. 

More importantly, Lane, the deate is not about treatment quality, but access.  Without access people die, especially from such diseases as cancer.  Quite simple.

8:47am • #50
2 Featured Posts

Nogui - thank you!  If our politicians had any balls, we wouldn't even be discussing it anymore; it would have been done.  I wonder how many on the right see the irony of promoting theagenda of the Insurance Lobby...

Thanks again, man:-)

9:24am • #51

It is laughable that you think you have the knowledge to review healthcare.  Do you even know which state has the largest Medicare bill?  Or the states where it costs double to perform the exact same tests?  Can you explain why this happens?

I bet you believe the incorrect figures you read on healthcare disease and deaths, put out by the countries who are always trying to push propoganda to their smuck citizens who have national healthcare don't you?

Infant mortality rates in this Nation, when COUNTED IN THE SAME MANNER, are at the same par as Iceland.  The numbers are fudged by other nations because they don't count all infant deaths.  We do.  They don't "count" an infant until they are of a certain weight.  We count them all.  They don't count infants who have not lived for 1 month.  We do.  Those figures are severly bogus.   Of course you will never learn this from main stream media. 

The US has the TOP SURVIVAL RATES for Cancers, breast cancer, prostrate cancer uterus cancer, etc.  That's right, TOP.  Yet our society is fatter than all others and live terribly unhealthy lifestyles.  I can't even imagine how high the death rates would be if we were all put under the healthcare system of the UK or Canada!

Another figure that impacts us that you NEVER HEAR ABOUT are the number of deaths by our young people in war!  Because we are always defending other nations and peoples around the world, more of our young men die in war than any other country!

 

The insurance groups are no more evil than the government politicians who want power over all citizens vis a vis healthcare.  As a consumer you can fire your insurance company.  If enough consumers fire that company, they go away.  The problem we've had for years in this country is the BUYOUT of our POLITICIANS.   You aren't aware of it, but obama has made deals with certain insurance companies.   That is why they are backing him.  Look at AARP.  What deal do you imagine they have with the administration that puts money into their pockets?  They aren't the only ones.

Be wary, very wary of giving up your freedom of choice for healthcare to the government.  They will divide us as groups only to gain votes for themselves.  They will pit the old against the young.  The fat against the thin.  The healthy against the sick.  It has been being done by politicians since the beginning. 

Don't misunderstand.  I DO agree that healthcare reform must happen.  But let's do what will really help!

* Remove laws that block interstate competition.  Right now insurance companies have a monopoly whereby other insurance companies can't by law compete against them state to state.  Ask yourself why our politicians passed laws that gave tons of profit to these companies by implementing laws.

* TORT REFORM (not even on the table right now)  Why?  Billions of $ of tests are performed each year by physicians who are only trying to protect themselves from lawsuites.  Several dem senators have openly admitted that they (the Congress) won't take on the trial lawyers. 

* Stop the RAMPANT FRAUD in Medicaid and Medicare!!!  Why hasn't this been done by any administration?  Why isn't this being done NOW if reducing costs is the goal of this administration?  Odd that they would not even address BILLIONS lost each year, yet be fighting like hell to take over healthcare.

* Give CITIZENS the tax cuts for health insurance, not BUSINESS.  This would be a simple fix that would help immensely, yet nothing in the bills out there on this!

 

Georgia
10:23am • #52

Many of the usual suspects seem to be present here. This is your LAST warning. Call someone else stupid, keep up with the same tone, continue to act as if you are on the elementary playground and you will be kicked off this site. I AM DONE listening to the whining and complaining coming from both sides. DONE.

Does anyone here sell real estate? You have an amazing tool at your disposal and you must waste 3 or 4 hours a day debating and degrading each other. It's insanity. There are plenty of places you can do this online. Here is NOT one of them.

I would encourage you this, if you insist on continuing with the same behavior, you will want to grab an XML download of your content. This was your final warning. You will see similar ones left around this place today. However, the next time I see it, your account will simply be suspended. No explanation will be given. This is the explanation.

11:57am • #53
2 Featured Posts

Bob, with all due respect, - I am not aware of ever getting a warning in any form from any of the staff at AR, nor was I able to find your warning message posted on anyone else's posts today.

I would very much like to know which lines I have crossed, specifically.  I have no problem with following the rules that are equally enforced, so long as I understand what they are, and everyone is held to the same standard.

Your explanation on Simon's post lacks these specifics.

4:20pm • #54
106,539 Points 12 Featured Posts

Inna...........my dear sweet one in Orlando or wherever.........when you choose to respond in kind to those that are not civil..........it is on you. It is very easy to delete a comment that steps outside the bounds of decent debate.................Bob is very clear.............I believe that anyone that reigns in their emotions will be able to agree that the name calling is off base............comments 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,14,15,16,17,18,20,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,and 36 as well as this one do nothing but expose the vitriol that exists between some members....

when you stoop to the level of those that denigrate the debate........regardless of wit and word smith, you become as they are.............

I believe that AR has always been very clear..........stop personal insults........

I am not above reproach. I have upon occasion allowed my emotions and angst flow freely through my fingers.........I attempt to avoid that at all times.  In the end, there is no value in demeaning another because of their belief system, their race, the choice of picture, their name or what they say.

My only disagreement with what Bob shared relates to their must be a site out there that welcomes this sort of internet, social networking repartee.......I would hope that none exists. The behavior is not acceptable on line or as the old timers say in the RW.  

It is easy to rise above the fray and stop the hate.........use the DELETE KEY...

just a thought

5:58pm • #55
2 Featured Posts

My dear J-Mac - at the moment, the only issue I have with any of this is that it appears to either be arbitrary or subjective in and of itself, or to be artibtrarily enforced.  Hence, I would very much like some clarification from the powers that be.

You know me well enough to know, hopefully, that I don't write blogs to demean anyone, nor do I tend to welcome that in the comments.  However, if there are ideas expressed that I find abhorent, I don't see any harm in pointing that out.  Ross - is a very special case and those who've run across him before understand that he is engaging in a game all his own, and always personal.  That - I have no interest in.  Nasty mysoginistic vitriol he engaged in a short while ago elsewhere on AR was all the introduction I needed to who and what he is to not want to ever debate with him.

I do have a fundamental issue with the delete button, John.  I always have.  I believe in people's ability to police the comments they leave on these posts or be open to public ridicule when they cross the line, yours truly included.

I would simply like to know where that line is that I broke, and how it differs from all the other highly charged posts and comments permeating the political groups on here.

6:55pm • #56

Inna,

Wow-just another routine day at the bloodbath.  Actually this blog has been pretty tame compared to previous ones on AR.  I have pulled a Douglas MacArthur-I have returned.  Speaking of the name MacArthur I sure appreciate the wise and calming words of Mr. John MacArthur.  Thank you, sir!

I do find the intervention puzzling other than that expletive in your blog(couldn't you have used TLW's grasshopper picture???), for I have seen far worse with demeaning and vitrolic comments directed back and forth in the last six weeks of my AR experience.

Could we get back to the discussion?  How do you feel about tort reform, and what is your position on repealing the anti-trust status of the medical industry? 

Spaseeba!

 

 

7:52pm • #57
2 Featured Posts

Bruce - I am not up for it at the moment, but will get back to you tomorrow, if I am still here:-)

PS: Thank you!!!

11:53pm • #59
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Inna,

It is obvious the people here who comment against your remarks do NOT understand WHY you have done your best keep Ross away from your comment thread...

You are NOT a Bully Inna... I applaud you for attempting to make this man leave your thread.........

Even though JMac makes a very good point for deleting certain people I do not feel it was fair to judge you with such limited facts at the  disposal of those who insinuated early on that  you are a Bully

It is obvious Certain members here do not know Ross and your recent encounter with him.

Here is just two of his outlandish recent comments in another thread...perhaps it is he that should have been flagged Not you...........

 

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE, THE FEMALE WHO FLOPS ON HER BACK AND SPREADS HER LEGS OR THE MALE WHO PLUGS THE HOLE.  NONE OF YOU CAN PLACE THE RESPONSIBILITY ON THE INDIVIDUALS.  WHAT A SHAME, WHAT HAS THIS NATION COME TO?  YOU ALL ARE A BUNCH OF NO GOODS!!!!!!

 
Ross Westerman, REALTOR® Kingwood TX & Montgomery County Homes and Land (RossWesterman.com (713)859-1286 Realty Associates)

I truly wish you would stop calling me Darlin, it makes me want to copulate with you and not have any worries about who is goning to take care of the offspring.

   
Ross Westerman, REALTOR® Kingwood TX & Montgomery County Homes and Land (RossWesterman.com (713)859-1286 Realty Associates)

11:59pm • #60
OCT
15
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Seems some should not rush to judgement without all the facts as in comment # 16

Hang in there Inna we all Love your ability to speak so eloquently and freely

12:07am • #61
106,539 Points 12 Featured Posts

Inna..........just for the record.......so all the folks know............you and I are close friends. Your husband Jon is one of my favorite guys ( even if he looks like a pin up model and is terribly more efficient than I ). 

I have no doubt that you are aware, my comments were not meant to bring you down. My effort was to calm you down. I would have called but I was in the middle of a three hour battle of wills with the 11 year old regarding the need to write down 20 words and definitions that she just didn't seem to learn with her 5 minute read'um and know'em method.

Regarding the delete button, I too have a philosophical feeling about it. I do not support censorship. I never have. The birth of the internet and the amazing easy access it provides to all, has given me reason to think again.

You see, I have no problem with Hollywood making R rated or PG-13 rated films. I do find a small bit of comfort in knowing what a film is rated. We have a rule that the 11 year old can not view R rated or PG-13 films. I don't consider that censorship. I do understand that she probably does watch them at times. The point is that Lourdes and I have the right to attempt to control what she watches.

If we go to a book store or grocery store, there are books and magazines to suit all tastes. I believe that they have the right to publish and anyone of age has the right to purchase and read them. We don't buy any of those magazines. We censor what reading material is in the home.

The internet creates a brand new dilemma. As fast as any parent might safeguard a system, work a rounds show up. You can buy programs that will block access to sites that are rated. I am not very good at knowing exactly all the stuff out there, but I do know it remains a wild frontier.

The demise of chat rooms environments began when AOL dropped the pay by the minute system. It became very apparent when school let out. Children racing from room to room. Those same children are stumbling for site to site.

They even show up here. 

So, we inherit the job of attempting to make what we share...family friendly. Is that censorship? I don't know. I just know that some of the comments that are made on your threads and other "lightning rod" folks tend to get personal and graphic and down right ugly. They do not serve any purpose that I can see other than to let all readers know the character of the author of the comment. 

Deleting them became easy when I saw the act of doing so as sort of cleaning up the blog for public consumption. I understand that the miscreants will find another place to fester and share their bile. I just don't want the 11 year to sit down and read my blog or your blog or any blog and stumble across some of the comments that exist.

Had I received the comments that are quoted in #60, I would have flagged them and then deleted them. 

Now, if we can not tolerate censorship, maybe AR can add a rating to each member that will appear in the upper left corner of the comment. If a member does not have a sufficient vocabulary to express themselves sans denigrating hate speak....slap a red X up there. If a member uses language as appears in the quotes in comment #60, buy all means give the world fair warning.

As for you and me, I know and you know, it is all good. I just thought I might dash this off.

Ps...oh lord I hate doing this but since I mentioned it I must. Terry..I did not say you called anyone a name....."comments 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,14,15,16,17,18,20,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,and 36 as well as this one do nothing but expose the vitriol that exists between some members....".....I am no expert, but a lot of people that have read this thread have agreed that comment was one of those polite tongue in cheek barbs. It really is a goading sort of thing isn't it. Picture a group of boys standing just out of reach of a pit bull that is tied to a tree. They take turns making sudden movements at the dog or stamping their feet. The dog leaps and snarls but is restrained by the rope. You tell the boys "leave that dog alone" and they respond quite accurately "we aren't touching him".  I believe you get my drift and I think we ought to leave some "dogs" alone. If you can't see what they are tied to...picture a large tree. The tree has hate, bigotry, racism et all carved into it's trunk. The rope is the emotional strand that keeps those "dogs" close to the tree. Leave them there. We all have so much more to offer. One day, they will die, still tied to their tree.

6:55am • #63
2 Featured Posts

Terry - OMG WTH? Is this necessary?

Lina Mae & John - I'll b back in a bit.

7:54am • #65
282,083 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

No Inna, apparently none of my comments are necessary.  Will be happy to delete.

8:54am • #66

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE, THE FEMALE WHO FLOPS ON HER BACK AND SPREADS HER LEGS OR THE MALE WHO PLUGS THE HOLE.  NONE OF YOU CAN PLACE THE RESPONSIBILITY ON THE INDIVIDUALS.  WHAT A SHAME, WHAT HAS THIS NATION COME TO?  YOU ALL ARE A BUNCH OF NO GOODS!!!!!!

 
Ross Westerman, REALTOR® Kingwood TX & Montgomery County Homes and Land (RossWesterman.com (713)859-1286 Realty Associates)

FYI Inna, this comment showed up on my post Olympic Hatred. Linda, I have reported that comment along with a few others from the same poster.

9:51am • #67
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Inna, words fail me. I look at this huge puzzle populated by the regular posting and commenting cast of characters and their convenient alliances, serpentine agendas and messages of duality which ring ever so insincerely, depending on the blog post they are creating or responding to. Most of it leaves me tepidly disinterested.

You are one of the few voices on all of AR never failing to disappoint when it comes to arresting clarity of thought and style. If you are considered one of the "usual suspects", I would be quite devastated.

2:47pm • #68
OCT
16
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Inna - I just got on and after reading through this thread I must say that I agree with J Mac in #55 regarding Bob Stewart's warning.  Ross does nothing but post vapid comments on the blogs of anyone not sharing his views.  They lack any substance whatsoever and as soon as I realized his modus operandi, I quickly ignored him.  By debating him, you not only lowered yourself, you took focus away from a good blog.  Like Mark Twain said, "[sic] Never argue with a fool, onlookers might not be able to tell the difference" 

Simon - Nice work with #32.  One step at a time is not a bad thing.

4:17am • #69
2 Featured Posts

Bruce - good morning.  Thank you for the jumping in to the 'bloodbath' and still wanting to debate - that, in and of itself, is encouraging.

In answer to your questions, I am somewhat conflicted on the whole tort reform issue.  If we are to apply principles of the free market to one industry (medical and insurance, in this case), but then effectively put a cap on earninings of those in another, how do we justify that? Who is to decide how much one's life is worth, or any element of that life, should one not be ableto enjoy it any more? 

Additionally, that alone would do little to curtail the costs of care, from what I hear.  I think any lawsuits that are frivolous, no matter the subject or the guilty party, should be curtailed, period. Being able to sue for hot coffee beeing too hot and winning is idiotic, yet the cost of McDonalds cup of coffee is still the same. 

As for anti-trust exemptions - I am all for repealing it.  It should have never happened in the first place,and it's high time it were revisited.

On a larger picture though, I do think that for as long as anyone's profit is directly tied to someone else's lack of treatment, our healthcare will still be inadequate for too many people... no matter how stingent rules for insurance companies are.  Just my 2 cents, of course.

8:34am • #70
2 Featured Posts

Linda Mae - thank you so much for the sweet words, and the intro to Ross for some of my readers:-)  I did see those comments, hence, my lack of desire to engage him, but I guess by asking him to leave I engaged him nontheless.

In retrospect, I probably should have simply deleted his comments from the getgo, as J-Mac suggests.  I ought to learn to use that delete key:-)

8:37am • #71
2 Featured Posts

My Sandra - yep:-) That's exactly what I was thinking, only not as laconically.

8:38am • #72
2 Featured Posts

Terry H. - any comment that does something to address the post itself or the discussion in the comment thread is fine with me. Your nitpicking minor points to disagree with out of J-Mac's comment was, in my opinion, petty and unnecessary.  If you have a problem with me pointing out when I think you are wrong - by all means, keep your comments to the posts where they'll be lauded.  I don't roll that way.

8:43am • #73
2 Featured Posts

Nogui - I know, I saw that comment.  See, here is my fundamental issue with all this.  I did not want to debate with Ross on my blog based solely on the impression I had of him from those comments.  I don't want him commenting on my blog, and thereby hijacking it into the gutter.  It might have been wiser to hit that delete key, though it would have struck him as rather unprovoked, and unfair, and chances are, he would have ranted on it elsewhere.  If he had left the comment he left on your post here, however, I would have absolutely deleted it, no questions asked.  Hence, my little dilemma.  He didn't say anything offensive here, not yet, but his very presense offends me... What do you do with that?

8:47am • #74
2 Featured Posts

Michelle - meeting you here was one of the few rare highlights of this whole experiences.... I don't foresee being kicked off just yet, but should that ever happen, I'll still be very very grateful for your friendship.:-)  As to the puzzle and all its parts - I give up trying to figure it out. It's too emotionally draining for one, and quite possibly will yield conflicting results anyway.  MWA-

8:51am • #75
OCT
20
2 Featured Posts

Tchaka - didn't mean to ignore your comment - just took a break from AR for a few days:-)

Last I checked, I've always responded to comments, at least initially, no matter how vapid, hateful, useless, etc.  It's just the way I am.  I do see your (and John's) point, of course; i am just choosing to disagree with it.

By that rationale, if taken to its ultimate, yet logical, conclusion, we ought to only be responding to comments we like or agree with, which would make for a pretty dull forum.  Ross is the first person on here that I've ever asked to leave.  I am hoping to keep it that way, and yes, his commentary on any of my posts will be simply deleted from this point on, but, as stated previously, the resaons for that are personal, and don't apply to any other comments or commenters.

:-)

 

12:07pm • #76

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