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Lil Devil and Lil Angel- Oh my Gawd They did it again!

Oh my...I only came on here to read a few things, and one thing I read just jumped out at me, and the Lil Devil threw his sock away and has been jumping up and down ever since.

Why? What is going on this time?

We all have heard about the new FTC Guidelines. Several Blogs on here were written, some better than others. But what the Lil Devil noticed were a few of the comments, uh oh here he goes:

Lil Devil- Will you quit acting like you are so superior! And if you really want us to believe what you say, then I suggest you actually do some research before writing. And you call yourself a Prolific Blogger!

Lil Angel- Many people are confused, and it didn't help any that most of the media got it wrong, and so did some of the top Bloggers. This was all clarified in a Conference Call I was on with Mary Engle of the FTC a couple days ago.

Lil Devil- Yea yea, who cares about that....I want to know why this whole thing has gotten out of control? Nobody is going to be making a Bloggers Jail, and regardless of that "important" AR Blogger.....the Government is not restocking the treasury with fines from Bloggers. He** this reminds me of all that fear mongering that was so prevalent in the past.

Lil Angel- Yes, but that prolific Blogger went on and on about how it is our responsibility to check things out, and ........

Lil Devil- Oh really? If that's the case then they sure dropped the ball on checking facts. We do check facts don't we? Or is that only for Market Reports?

Lil Angel- OK, enough now.....here is something that will give you the Q&A from the call, and a link to the Guidelines. And as far as the misinformation that is going around the media and Blogs, most of it was misinterpretation of the Press Release.

Lil Devil- that may be fine and dandy, but what about the people that love spewing their cr*p about everything? You want me to just ignore them?

Lil Angel- Yep, those are the AR Guidelines.....If you want to play in the sandbox, you must remember that not everyone plays with the same deck of cards, and some people just love to spout off to sound important!

My Writeup on the Guidelines with Q&A's

Link to Read for Yourself the Guidelines

Kathy McGraw

Posted by Kathy McGraw, Riverside County CA Real Estate on 10/15/2009 11:47 PM

Comments (54)

Oh Gawd You Didn't Say That Did You? in the ActiveRain Channel

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54 Comments on Lil Devil and Lil Angel- Oh my Gawd They did it again!

OCT

They say variety is the spice of life. There are many different personalities, backgrounds, interests, etc. I love it all (mostly). If someone doesn't like a particular blogger, they can avoid clicking on their blog.

And there you are :) One thing is for certain...you DO find out facts first rather than "spew". (next time quit spitting out the spew...I had to wipe out my eyes....lol) Great call Kathy.

OCT

Shirley- I loved how you put "mostly" in there :) We can definitly avoid particular bloggers blogs, but hard to miss them on comments (I read comments before commenting) .

Sally- Yep, here I am.......and heck I only was going to read a few Posts and put up a pretty picture :)

Kathy,

I read this post three times and can't figure it out. What's going on here?

Terry- I'm impressed you read it 3 times LOL :) The essence is that there are people that try to get others to think they are "experts" when they aren't, and they say things that are idiotic to put it nicely. I started a series a while back of the 2 sides of my personality that talks about some of these things. This particular one was about someone going on and one about a whole lot of BS, and misinformation. So I put a link here so people could get the "truth". That's it in a nutshell. Hope you're a fast reader and didn't waste too much time re-reading :)

Looks like someone crossed your line. ..why don't you just send them a link of your post?

No! No! No!

Just let the government get one stinkin' toe in the arena of blogging and we risk giving them the power to wield political power through which they will provide favors to contributors. That's just the way it is.

Government no longer writes laws or guidelines to protect the public. They write laws and guidelines through which they can control the political process in their favor.

There is no "truth" in these guidelines. They are merely a vehicle through which a few government bureaucrats can control something about which they have little to no knowledge. This is just another attempt to curb, control, limit free speech.

Let's face it. Tobacco was known to kill millions of American for decades and the government stood by and watched it happen with through permitting false and misleading"studies" by contributors.

The government have no credibility when writing, publishing or enforcing any "guidelines" that remotely touch on free speech. It's one of the few freedoms we have left.

Until and unless the government is ready to prosecute and jail spammers, they should stay the Hell away from the Interent.

Kathy I am always intrigued by the real estate agents who practice law on AR - they are "out of their element" Karen

I am amazed at how few who have LOTs of opinions about this have not bothered to read the document.

It's not a political issue.

It's consumer protection.

It is nothing new. Last time guidelines were updated was the 1980s?

It's about advertising... if the FTC just had the forsight to mention Facebook, Squidoo lenses, blogs and whatever NEW form of communication we will have in the future, they would not have had to update this in 2009...

Frances Flynn Thorsen is hosting a webinar about it 2 PM EST today. Joe Ferrara of Sellsius Real Estate Blog and a PR guy will be the authorities... Joe is an attorney and entertaining to boot.

Kathy, Congrats on the feature!! I have to go and re-read the list, I'm glad you included it. I'm sorry to say I haven't read that much about the new rules. It sounds like I'd better watch my step :)

Kathy, good to see Lil Devil and Lil Angel back.

My comment is it is a slippery slope...one I don't want to slid under. Too many blogs....too much regulation....we have enough. It is an insult to people reading blogs to think they are not wise enough to know or check out if that person is gettiing paid to endorse a product.

I wish I could be on the call today but have a noon apt so hopefully it will be recorded to listen over the weekend.

Nice to see ya!

Kathy:

I have read a number of blogs (not only here) on this subject and it has been difficult to get the actual facts on this. I am glad you supplied that link.

I think bloggers are very touchy about anything that may infringe on their right to free speech and that is understandable. However, as I see these rulings, they are more for protection of the public from lies and misrepresentation. The fake diet ads and false testimonials are good examples of what they are trying to avoid.

I don't think bloggers need to be too concerned about this unless they are planning to write information that is not true. That's just my take...

It is not about free speech, it is about advertising and consumer protection.

Claudette wrote:

"I don't think bloggers need to be too concerned about this unless they are planning to write information that is not true. "

add the phrase

"for compensation."

"I don't think bloggers need to be too concerned about this unless they are planning to write information that is not true for compensation."

Don't let political rhetoric confuse you...

You can blog about your opinions. You don't need a fact checker... Want to buy bloggers insurance? That's your perogative. You are going to have to read that policy though too.

Read the FTC document don't believe the tabloid coverage by the media and some bloggers.

Maureen:

Thanks for that bit of clarity. It made me go back and read the FTC document. It does seem to specify that it applies to a "sponsor" relationship.

So, with regard to Realtors making false claims or writing fictitious client testimonials, we probably have to defer to our code of ethics which does cover this.

Once again, the best policy - just don't lie...

I'm not sure what to make of this new filing. We will have to wait and see on this one.

I believe Maureen is very correct. Personally, I'm not ultra concerned.

You know that I love these posts, Kathy. I both check out my facts and spew, although the two aren't always done at the same time:) When I'm writing a Mortgage Post, I try to ensure that the information as correct as it can be at the time of it being written. If I'm spewing, then look out reader... I just may offend somebody's idea of good taste. Though I've been quite timid for the most part as of late, I will say. It must be the age thing:)

ah... there is only ONE expert, and for me, it's the Man upstairs. The word Expert is thrown around way too much.

Fernando- Oh I have better use of my time, some people wouldn't appreciate the link, I know....been there done that.

Lenn- Are we to assume by your comment that you have some "strong" feelings on this :) Maureen and Claudette probably said it best....it is mostly to curb the "misleading" and false testimonials (Je AB lost 60 pounds with this pill, and Real Estate Sue made a million dollars with Program X).

There have been numberous Companies on Twitter that set up fake sites, fake profiles, etc. to steer people to products or services with false info.

We would think the Public is smarter-but not all are. Right now they are working to stop the Fake Loan Modifications Co's (CA actually published a list of disbarred Attorneys who were ripping people off) where many desperate people were ripped off after paying $ to get their house out of foreclosure.

Or how about this one.....someone sets up a Fake Website that when you click on it it takes to a Porn Site.

We all know that the Internet has been unregulated-and most of us on here use that to our advantage-ethically. But do you honestly believe everyone is ethical?

I am not into regulating everything, but I am into knowing that if you are touting XYZ Co. as the best, or Brand B as the best, if you are receiving compensation for that! I have said many times that if you are paid to promote something it makes a difference (to me) on how I will judge it. With a grain of salt, or rushing over with wallet opened to buy it.

BTW- Thank You, I love to hear what you think, we all do :)

Maureen- I really wanted to be on that call but will miss it. Frances was on the Conference Call also the other day, and the Sellsius Blog wrote about Trulia and Zillow and the Testimonials and things. Very interesting. Hope you let us know what was said.

Carole- Hey friend, yea, it's always better to get the info directly from the horses mouth :) Your stuff is already transparent.....but if you started selling on Squidoo Feng Shui stuff then you would have to worry.

Missy- Hi there....I was just asking about you the other day :) Frances has a Twitter hashtag set up for this, so you will be able to find the info. It will probably be on her blog also. One thing to remember it is not all of us, the little fish, that matter, it is the big fish- The Weight Loss Co's, Loan Modification ones that take peoples' dollar without giving service, Products that tout you can make a Million Dollars a year just like Joe did, etc.

Claudette- Sounds like you did your homework :) I agree that unless we specifically set out to lie, then we have a problem. Affiliate Marketers will have to change a few things, but that is not on this network. For us, we should be aware when buying template websites that come wiith Testimonials.....we have to be able to "prove" or "substantiate" claims.

Aaaron- Sounds good to me :)

Maureen thank you for pointing out the webinar that Frances is doing. I will be sure to join in this afternoon.

Lenn - Prosecute and jail the spammers...that should be a call to arms! Let's twirl our mouses in the air and organize a protest!

Karen-Heck even the Lawyers don't always get it right :)

Jason- Ahhh domesticated life has calmed you down? I don't think it's age as I'm older than you LOL :)

Kat- So true about the word "expert" and I am really curious how some Companies have advertised #1 for years, and Agents too.....just because they picked that for their marketing. Wonder how they will be able to prove that LOL :)

Dan- I am twirling my mouse ;)

Kathy Hope it is OK to add a link to today's webinar - Frances, Joe and the other speaker is Raleigh R. Pinskey: "Raleigh R. Pinskey is a best-selling author and internationally recognized PR and Social Media Branding Expert."

For anyone who can make it I can almost promise Joe will be entertaining and he may "Spew" to use Jasons word... Joe may Spew all over Truzilla for our entertainment.

Gosh I wish I would have known about Mary Engle's conference call but then again I felt after reading through the 81 pages the first time all the hysteria in the blog world was either ignorance or pot stirring for the traffic.

Wonder if the recording of that is somewhere we can access.

Kathy and Kat...Out of all I read, I choose to take the approach that you do regarding the word "expert". I am darn good at a lot of things, but my disclaimer seems to often be, "I am no expert, but..." :)

Kathy, I love your Lil Devil and Lil Angel when they appear :) I too get a bit confused when I read conflicting posts about the same subject. I am FAR from an expert at anything...it does annoy me as well when they claim to be experts and the article is full of misinformation. We do have a few GREAT folks here that do fact check.

Maureen- Thanks for the link that will be quite helpful. What time zone is this in, I might be able to hear it all if it is EST :) Your assesment of the hysteria in the Blog World is right on!

Don't know about a recording of the call- I took notes of who and what was asked and answered- put those on my Q&A Squidoo Lens. Wrote it there because of all the Affilate Marketers....and some of them don't get info like we do on AR ;)

Sarah- Yep, I am no expert either :)

Elizabeth- When the first words out of the mouth of Mary was the media and others "got it all worng" you knew we were in trouble :) The 81 page doc explains it, but many used the Press Release for their stories.

Kathy- I totally agree with Lenn. First of all, the FTC is not known for it's fairness or for true consumer protection. I personally know very good companies who were brought down by the FTC because of Big Business being in bed with the FTC. The FTC also has a Kangaroo court. I can not find in my research even one company or person who has won in an FTC 'court'. The deck is stacked against when due process is take out of the equation. The FTC has made is SO hard for natural herbs to be sold in this country when every other country it is the first think people use before they even go to the doctor. Here the FTC is in bed with Big Pharma and GE and whoever else is against the little guy making it in- they got in the door and now they want to close it on everyone else.

To think that the FTC is just about consumer protection is a misnomer. This is about free speech. It is also about the little guy getting a chance to make it amid big businesses that want to control the internet and who do control the government. CTann brought up some very good points to think about in her post about this subject.

Everything about control starts with one little step at a time so that no one notices and the proponants defend the actions through consumer protections until there is nothing more you are allowed to say or do.

When does the consumer have an obligation to do their due diligence before buying? Are there no more responsibilities left in this country? Is everyone a victim whenever they make a choice to buy? Or is a nanny state what everyone is asking for?

Until the FTC gets out of bed with big corporations- they are NOT for the people. Katerina

In reply to "Kathy I am always intrigued by the real estate agents who practice law on AR - they are "out of their element" Karen"

Since when do you need a law degree to read and interpret a law? real estate agents, along with the rest of the general public, should be able to read a law and either know what it means or be able to research it enough to find out the meaning. Kathy has done an excellent job at digging into the law and new regulations, asking the appropriate questions, and then putting it in a form that is easier for people to understand.

Sorry 2:00 EST in a couple of hours.

I have tried searching for the recording but can not find it.

I have found earlier stuff about WOM advertising....

I am totally against regulations of blogs - I agree with Katerina and Lenn - no more government involvement! I did go ahead and set up a blog disclosure for my other company (a music teaching studio) - but I also read on your other post where you think that only about half of the bloggers out there will even bother to do that.

Very interesting topic and thanks for sharing!

You think I have anything to worry about? I don't think so...I don't 'claim' to be anything I'm not...and whatever I'm 'claiming' to be I have a license for. Taking compensation (like mauraeen mentioned) is that like violation of respa laws?

Katerina- Regardless of opinions- the need to disclose is here! And if someone isn't doing anything wrong, a disclosure shouldn't have much impact on them.

Annonomous- Laughing here.....yes Real Estate Agents should be able to "read" but we're not allowed to "interpret". We can have "opinions" though, like some of the comments above, and most certainly we should research and check facts before writing.

Thank you for coming by and taking the time to comment :)

Maureen- Thanks....and no I don't think there is a recording.

Sally- Well thanks a lot for throwing a new mix into the fire- RESPA rules :) Transparency...isn't that what we have been saying for years now that bloggers should do. It's in one of your latest posts also......

Kathy McGraw, featured sharp cookie!

hi K, facts??? Do they really matter? ;-) As for "AR Guidelines.....If you want to play in the sandbox, you must remember that not everyone plays with the same deck of cards"...

Don't feel bad. Since I've been banned from the front page and was almost booted off here a few months ago for stating/clarifying a fact publicly, we have to learn to shuffle our own cards. Really glad to see you posting here again!

P.S. In the future I'll be disclosing when people send me cookies! ;-)

Darn those cookies look good...:)

marti- Cookies.....oh darn then I have to disclose eating them too LOL :) Yes, we shuffle our own deck, and hope the Ace of Spades doesn't pop up too many times LOL :) I know all about Facts...and how we have to filter them on some platforms :)

Sally- Get away from my Cookies.....LOL:)

"He** hath no fury like a women's scorn". Lil Devil is a women isn't it?

Sally said "Taking compensation (like mauraeen mentioned) is that like violation of respa laws?"

RESPA is...

Real Estate Settlement P???? A is Act.

I guess taking undisclosed (to readers) compensation for a testimonial on a blog for a lender or someone else involved in a real estate transaction might break laws with both FTC and w/ RESPA.

Kathy- Yes, I will now have to go back to my post I wrote over a year ago about a little restaurant because we got a free dinner after we wrote the post. I have a disclosure that I put on my posts, especially when I am an affiliate of a product. The maybe, someday I might get a referral for a listing will also go on my posts. But that is not the point. Disclosure is here. But there is a bigger picture here. Most people don't read history, real history for if they did, they would not be so submissive in their thought process. Yes, this is a new rule, a new law- and most of us will obey, but the issue of liberty is much greater than just one law that leads to another, and another, ... this is a wolf in sheep's clothing as is much of what has been transpiring in our government over the last 12 years, probably even longer.

Kathy. The only way something like this will work is for there to be a system for advertisers to submit their copy for government approval before the copy can be used.

No. No. No.

Kathy, I would think the FTC would have better things to do with their time than look at blogs but it just seems about disclosure to me. We will have to see how this plays out of course...

Joe- :) The Lil Devil is asexual...BTW love your quote :)

Katerina- I am not ignorant as to all of our rights that have been eroded in recent years. I saw it coming, and was vocal with my opinions. However, I had no intention to discuss any political views on this Post. And whether this is a "wolf in sheeps clothing" or not is something that I'm not debating here.

Lenn- I hear you, but not sure I agree. I really have no issue with people having to disclose. Yesterday I learned Virginia is a Buyer Beware state (according to a Broker there) but CA has to disclose "everything". Do I like doing all these disclosures, no, do I do them, yes. And our Real Estate disclosures were made to "protect all the parties".

That being said...Agents that claim certain things will now have to be able to verify the claim, and testimonials have to be verified. What's wrong with that? Do you like reading web sites where everyone has the same few people saying they bought their home from you and are pleased as punch! Not me......

Now what if Joe Public only saw one of those sites and believed it. Is that right?

I am not saying I agree or disagree....I am only saying that we need to disclose, and that there are no fines attached for Bloggers (per the FTC). Come on Lenn AR can't even Police this whole site, and Squidoo cannot police all theirs.....so how in the world does anyone think the Govt. will have time to read every blog to see if they are in compliance? It is like all our laws, they make them and we comply, or not!

Gary- yep, we will just have to wait and see. In the meantime I have no issues with disclosing what I'm supposed to.

Hi Kathy,

Really interesting discussion here. I posted my thoughts on this earlier this week and can only say the one thing I am happy about it all this is that WOMMA has been speaking with the FTC how have been listening to WOMMA's feedback.

The other thing I will say is that even WOMMA's legal council is a little grey on some of the details of the the FTC guidelines regarding questions of sponsorship. I think if you do blog, regardless of compensation or not, this is an important issue to keep up on and watch. WOMMA will be posting regular updates.

Hi Kathy,

No doubt you stirred the pot on this one, looks like I've been out of the loop of much that's been going on...truthfully in many ways I like that.

Like you I read and see many claims right here in the Rain (and of course other places) that make me wonder myself.

Congrats on your feature and good to see you again!

Rebecca- Yes, even the FTC said there are Gray areas, but it is the Black and White ones they would concentrat on. I am curious what was said in todays Webinar with Frances. I absolutely agree it is something that should be followed :)

Lynda- Out of the loop can be so refreshing at times :) As for claims on AR....some people would be in a world of hurt if they had to be "truthful". But then again some people have deceived themselves for so long maybe they believe the nonsense they write. I know I don't believe it.

This particular issue though many wrote erroniously because of a general confusion in the media. At least that's what I hope and not that they just used this to increase their traffic!

Govenment regulation and Big Brother. They seem to be an unfortunate reality that we have to deal with in life and business.

OCT

I don't know -- why can't it be like TV commercials and Joe Namath getting lathed by a beauty and tells everyone he's an Aqua Vela man . . . does he endorse a product. Yes. Did he get paid for it. Yes. Does he have to tell anyone that he did? No. So what's the point ???

This is the Kathy I miss, glad to have you back and saying it like it is! Remember that without controversy you don't get the readers and the comments. Some of the best way to get people to read and comment is to spread lies, government has been doing it for years, so why not bloggers?

Sorry, I didn't get a chance to call Wednesday, when we talk, I'll explain everything.

Todd Clark - www.LivingBeaverton.com

OCT

Hope it is OK if I add this here.

If anyone and everyone missed the webinar Friday here it is. I enjoyed listening to what Joe had to say about the Guidelines... It is pretty straight forward though. No politics. It is what it is.

Webinar about changes to the FTC Guidelines - on Frances Flynn Thorsen's ActiveRain blog

His take on the effect on the real estate industry is us as consumers. Consumers on Trulia, buying ads, and even investing our time answering questions.

It applies to AR I believe.

Maureen- Thanks for the link.....I really wanted to hear that. Any new info you find is more than welcome here!

To All: Here's something I got in my email today:

"Hello, I made a special 45-page FSBO Handbook that you can use to convert For Sale By Owner's quickly and easily. This detailed packet helped me take over 30 listings a month for 7 years in a row. You can download your no-cost copy here (took link out)"

This is exactly the type of stuff that I was talking about. Would this person be able to substantiate this claim, and would the "average" REALTOR be able to get 30 listings a month every year? That is what the guidelines are for!

Darn I tried to Re-Blog it and you can hear Frances in the video but NOT JOE! I am not sure if the Re-Blog did that or if it is the link above does the same thing.... silence when Joe is speaking.

That's no good.

There were disappointing technical difficulties during the webinar too.

:- (

same thing on the link... No Joe!

No Joe.....wonder if this is a tehnical censorship LMAO :) No worries if you find it you can add, or if you write a lens with info could you add a link?

OCT

She said she is going to have to do another webinar in what she's used previously so there will be another opportunity. Hope Joe will re webinar.

She was trying something new. It did not work.

OCT

Kathy ~ You really know how to fight with yourself in style :) I guess it is a good thing that I rarely blog these days. I hate getting in trouble...

M- thanks for the updats.

Why hello there Ryan- long time no see :) How's everything with you, still really busy? Oh and yea, my Lil Devil loves to tell it the way he sees it ;)

OCT

Kathy ~ Yes, still very busy. In fact, we have more in escrow right now than we have at any time all this year. Although, I know my roots and my business has always been maintained through my efforts on the Internet, so you will probably seeing more of me :)

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