Yup, it happened. I had a lender, whose rental properties we manage, call and ask me to tell a little, white lie to make a deal go through. I have always prided myself on being very BLACK AND WHITE when it comes to telling lies. I never thought there would even be a question.

SO, I WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED.

This owner owns 8 rental properties. We manage 4 of them. Those 4 pay us the rent, we take our fees and then write him a check. It creates a very good paper trail.

He is trying to get a renter in one of the OTHER properties a loan to buy a house. The lender, obviously, wants a VOR (verification of rent). They want it in one of two ways: 1) canceled checks or 2) a letter from a property manager. Turns out he doesn't have canceled checks.

So, he asks me to write a letter saying that she pays on time and pays $2400/mo. in rent and has rented for the last 24 months. So, I do. I write a letter that says, "We manage four properties for Mr. Owner. This is not one of them. However, Mr. Owner has assured me that the tenant has been there for 24 months and paid $2400/mo. on-time." Needless to say, that is not what they wanted.

So, they sent me their VOR form to fill out and fax back. It was very generic. I filled it out, the things I did know, and sent it back. Of course, it still wasn't enough info for them. So, they called. They wanted to verify over the phone the particulars. When they got to whether or not she had ever paid more than 30 days late, I told them that "I did not manage that property but only served as an advisor for him on that property."

The underwriter calls back, again, and wants to verify that we manage all 8 properties and that all 8 renters pay us and then we write one big check to Mr. Owner. "Sorry, can't verify that.", I say. "Well," she says, "that is what he said." (I really wanted to say, "No, that's what SHE said!" She probably doesn't watch THE OFFICE.)

LATER, I GET A CALL FROM MR. Owner: "John, do what you can, bro."

I did.

 

48 Comments on A LENDER ASKED ME TO LIE!

JUN
21
2007
4 Featured Posts
Don't do it, not a good thing!!!!! stay on the straight and narrow.
3:57pm • #1
187,117 Points 12 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Slippery slope....I'd prefer to not go there at all!
4:00pm • #2
2 Featured Posts
Thomas, thanks. I did hold true. There was never a doubt.
4:00pm • #3
2 Featured Posts
Chris, it is indeed a slippery slope. Very easy to start down and very hard to stop.
4:01pm • #4
3 Featured Posts

That is exactly why the Mortgage Industry is where it is today!  Too many people said "No problem I will do that for you!"  Good job on sticking to your guns!

R O
4:08pm • #5
8 Featured Posts
John, that is why you have been nominated for stud of the year.  Keep up the straight shootin'.
4:22pm • #6
2 Featured Posts

Rey, unforunately you are correct. It can seem like such a little thing....

Jon, don't forget it. And you should write a blog about Sabal.

4:37pm • #7
5 Featured Posts

Great post. You should never sacrifice your reputation.

4:40pm • #8
3 Featured Posts
Good to hear that you stayed true to yourself on this one.  You did the right thing for yourself and the renter who is buing the home.  If he manages those parcels then why does he not just take care of it himself?  If he is so sure that everything is OK with them then let HIM put his a** on the line and not you.
4:43pm • #9
2 Featured Posts

Brad, thanks.

Joe, that is basically what I told him. Thanks for stopping by.

4:50pm • #10
616,335 Points 244 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Good job John. Our integrity is the one think no one else can take from us.
7:34pm • #11
405,792 Points 179 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

You have that 'Deer in the Headlights' look!

Or is it the 'Hand in the Cookier Jar' look?

Maybe it's the "Oh, Hi Honey! What? Her? Uh, she was just selling Girl Scout Cookies!'

10:24pm • #12
3 Featured Posts
You did the right thing.  Answered honestly which is all you can and should do.
10:39pm • #13
5 Featured Posts
John, these may seem like tough situations, but stay true to your principles! 
11:01pm • #14
363,210 Points 9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
I'm 100% with you on this one.  I would never lie -- we all work too hard and I would not put myself or my career in harms way -- I am glad that you stuck to your guns.
11:01pm • #15
Great Job!!! You showed Great Charactor in always telling the Truth. There is no GRAY area in the Mortgage Business
11:13pm • #16
590,986 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Doing things like that, long run, will end up biting you in the rear.
11:40pm • #17
2 Featured Posts
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. It is nice to be able to turn to a friendly community for validation.
11:57pm • #18
JUN
22
2007
351,295 Points Outside Blog
Not doing the right thing is never a good idea. Doing bad things has a way of coming back to haunt people.
12:06am • #19
3 Featured Posts
It is amazing the things lenders and agents are asked to do to put a deal together.  Always stick to the truth... it's easier to remember.
12:14am • #20
4 Featured Posts

Unfortunately I see things like that every day.  I'm a very trusting person so if a broker tells me something I believe them.  Then, my underwriter discovers a great big lie and I'm always shocked.  Maybe one day I'll learn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

12:52am • #21

John,

The expression in your photo it looks like it was taken about .5 seconds after you were asked that question?!

Cheers,

David Swierczynski

2:50am • #22
844,070 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

And folks wonder why lenders and agents have bad PR.  The guidelines are there.  Folks either meet them or they don't.  You can't squeeze the bad credit back into a good credit report after the rent is late.  That's all that's to it.

I had a loan officer offer to have his wife/bank VP write a phony VOD for one of my buyers so she could get his underwriter to approve the loan.  This was a loan officer for a mortgage company owned by the real estate company where I had my license.  He was our "office lender".  I told my broker about the incident.  Nothing happened.  Nothing happened.  They just don't care.

I took my buyers to other lenders after that but the pressure was always on my to "use the inhouse resources", even when they would knowingly commit fraud. 

 

5:52am • #23
224,760 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
It's not worth compromising your professional integrity.  Don't do it.
7:32am • #24
149,727 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

another wannabe investor....

typical.

i see it all of the time.

 

7:33am • #25
224,760 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
It's not worth compromising your professional integrity.  Don't do it.
7:33am • #26
Outside Blog
I just had a lender ask me to to something less than honest, as well.  Because of the way our closing costs were written up, the lender asked me to have the seller give the buyer a check outside closing.  I said " doesn't that need to be on the HUD-1?"  She replied that it couldn't be and that what she didn't "know" would be just fine.  I WAS FLOORED. 
7:55am • #27
578,257 Points 47 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Great post John.  We have all been put in those postitions, you were better at handling the inquiry than I would have been.
8:08am • #28
2 Featured Posts

My wife says that is the look I give her when I am acknowledging that she said something but don't know what she said!

Again, thanks for the encouragement. Doing right is good enough by itself, but having people tell you that you did right feels good, too.

10:40am • #29
2 Featured Posts
Lenn, that is crazy! The almighty dollar does bad things to people sometimes. It is nice to know people that don't make business decisions based solely on profits but also take integrity into account. Sorry that is going on in your office.
10:45am • #30
205,061 Points 4 Featured Posts Outside Blog
No deal, client or business is worth giving up your self respect and integrity.  Kudos to you for not going along with this.  I congratulate you on your character. 
2:19pm • #31
2 Featured Posts
There will always be the "benders of truth." It's great to see your ethics stood the test.
3:10pm • #32

One mistake can definetly cost you your job and your respect from others. With so much of this going on it  is great to see that there are still good honest people who will not bend over pressure from others. This really sums up the whole sub-prime market disaster a little lie goes a very long way usually ending up in default and foreclosure.

3:32pm • #33
2 Featured Posts

Carol, I agree. Thanks for the kudos.

Mother Lode Master, there are great benders of the truth and some of them are great salesmen! (and women)

Adrian, unfortunately you are correct. I know some mortgage brokers who think that "the bank understands that rules are broken, but there are rules to breaking rules".

4:30pm • #34

You filled out what you could, if that does not work then the client does not qualify. Guidelines are in place to be used to qualify, not give us direction to bend the rules. This is the same reason many cleints have been given loans for homes they can not actually afford with their REAL income.

 Good Job! staying honest will payoff 10fold.

7:52pm • #35
2 Featured Posts
Ryan, thanks for the encouragement. Its great to see, just from this post, how many people feel the same !
7:56pm • #36
2 Featured Posts
Way to stay true to your professionalism.  Too many agents, trying to placate their clients, will say almost anything.
9:05pm • #37
JUN
30
2007
409,659 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John...

...And once we give up that integrity it is almost impossible to get it back. Give up...As in choice :)

P.S. I am adding to Blog Boy's (Broker Bryant) comment :)

TLW...ROAR!

12:26pm • #38
2 Featured Posts
TLW, true true. Fortunately, I was lucky to be surrounded by good role models.
1:03pm • #39
JUL
07
2007
122,838 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I shouldn't be, but I am daily amazed at the stunts people pull.
11:45am • #40
2 Featured Posts
Christina, no doubt. I think that we will continually be amazed.
1:43pm • #41

John:

Good work!  I'd let you manage my property anytime.

5:53pm • #42
2 Featured Posts
Ray, I may take you up that. We are going to be expanding in the next 2 years.
6:00pm • #43
JUL
16
2007
1 Featured Post

John: Curious as to why you are not managing all 8 properties... after this situation, you seem to be in a good spot to get the other 4 properties, this way next time, you CAN provide the information necessary. If those properties are not in a proximity where you can manage them, maybe now would be a good time to get him someone closer to those properties.

 

10:59pm • #44
JUL
17
2007
2 Featured Posts
Rob, I wish we were. I think he felt like they were good tenants and didn't require us managing. the properties we manage for him we picked up when they were vacant. We will probably get his other ones when they go vacant.
10:22am • #45
AUG
10
2007
876,195 Points 68 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Good for you not getting yourself involved in mortgage fraud. It just isn't worth your lic.

1:26am • #46
172,254 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Keep it between the ditches!  Lenders lying, imagine that!  Losing your license over mortgage fraud is nothing; what about a felony and prison term!
2:01am • #47
2 Featured Posts

Todd, I couldn't agree more. Thanks for stopping by.

Donna, it wasn't that is was surprising that a lender lied, it was just that it hadn't yet heppened to me. You know what I mean?

1:40pm • #48

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John Evarts

Santa Clarita, CA

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Classic Property Management of Santa Clarita

Address: 28097 Smyth Dr. Suite E, Valencia, CA, 91355

Office Phone: (661) 702-9631 x 303

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