How old are you?  Actually go read Fannie and Freddies seller guidelines and see what they say about flipping the legal way and the WRONG way.  Your just wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start and not worth my time to respond in an email.

It sounds as though you've spoken to some investors that really either don't know what they're doing or they are shady indeed.  Actually I'll probably give you a call later to discuss. 

I've helped 20 people this past 11 months doing it the ETHICAL way and every last one of them is so grateful that we were able to help them.  They have full release of debt with no deficiency judgements coming from the banks.  I've actualy paid credit cards liens of $2,600 to close on a property.  Do you actually think a realtor would EVER actually do that especially on a 100k property????????  I think not......especially when their commission is a whopping $3,000.  I've seen realtors not pay a $45 fee to get the deal done.  By the way I am a realtor here in Nashville.  I wish I had someone like me when I was going through what these distressed homeowners are going through.  My wife Heather had her home foreclosed on and I've been through BK so we really know where these people are coming from.  We've actually had homeowners say to us at the closing table (yes we do give them that right to NOT sign the papers up until closing) "I wish you would have gotten the property cheaper from that EVIL bank" "we tried to work something out with them for 9 months and they're EVIL".

There's so much more that I'll save for our conversation.

Frank in Nashville                                                                                                                      The Short Sale Dude                                                                                                                 615-587-6700

Do yourself a favor and make sure you know exactly what you're talking about before you spew your nonsense.  My clients have never received a promissory note or a deficiency judgement and we've only lost one property to foreclosure and that was b/c the bank wouldn't budge from the full amount owed on the mortgage.  I've offered up my ENTIRE commission to get a deal closed and I've got an existing deal where I was able to raise my offer by $4K in order to avoid my client signing a promissory note. And that $4K cut into my commission and I was happy to be able to do it.  So please don't sit there and tell me that I'm greedy and will step on anyone to make a dollar, it's simply untrue on every level. 

No sneakiness Mike here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Everything is disclosed to the bank and everyone involved in the transaction including the homeowner, C buyers lenders etc........  Actually with one that we just closed with Saxon Mortgage we told them what we were doing and they were OK with it.  We actually gave Saxon more money so the homeowners would have NO DEFICIENCY balance to worry about in the future.  Tell me how that is wrong and SNEAKY.  I really want to hear your explanation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!They actually said that they understood that it takes a team to get these things done and NOT just one agent.  That was refreshing to hear from a bank. 

How many short sales have you closed Mike???????  I think it's important for us all here in this forum to hear your credentials.  If it's disclosed to ALL parties what is really going on.............how is that sneakiness, hidden and a side deal???????  Really I want you to actually explain that to all of out there.  Really Mike..............Fannie and Freddie say that there is a correct way of doing this that not only legal BUT ETHICAL.  Actually read what they have put out.........You'll be amazed at what you read Mike if you actually read from the source rather than just take some uninformed person's work for it.  Do your research Mike!!!!!!!!!

Frank (still waiting for your phone call) Hernandez                                                                          615-587-6700

 What is wrong with someone trying to warn the general public from getting ripped off?

I'm always confused when people say that we are scamming the house from the bank. No one forces them to accept our offer. In case you didn't know they have all kinds of nifty little formulas that they use to determine whether or not they'll accept an offer. If the offer falls in line with what they require they accept it. How is that scamming?  

Please clarify, is your loyalty to the bank or the seller? I'm thinking the bank. 

Andrew - no one that I know is ripping off the general public. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's being done in one form or another but I know that the public isn't being harmed on my real estate transactions. 

Frank - we've been there, done that with these guys. We'll just continue to let our success stories speak for themselves and we'll let them continue to throw fits b/c we're able to a) help people b) prevent the banks from owning real estate b/c that's not their job c) be mad b/c some of us are surviving in this tough real estate market. 

Very true Amanda!  I'm done trying to school ignorant people who are very green and obviously don't know what they are talking about.  Every attorney that I have spoken to about what I do has said "Not only is that legal what you are doing but also it's ETHICAL".  Not one of them, and there's been several, has said that what I was doing was illegal and Fraud........Not ONE.  One of the attorney's actually used to represent Dave Ramsey when he was in Real Estate here in Nashville.  He actually said that I reminded him of a young Dave Ramsey of which I was very flattered.  I'm actually meeting with the biggest Bankruptcy attorney firm here in Nashville in order to help his clients get through this mess.  That might just say something about what we're doing when attorney's are on board with what we're doing.

I still would challenge Mike to an actual debate on a public inner circle webinars to hash it out in a friendly way.  What do you say Mike?  If your that confident in your stance on this subject you should have NO PROBLEM defending what you say...........I know I don't.  I tell you what...........You bring a guest of whoever you want and so will I and we'll let the listeners decide.  What do you say Mike?  It will be like a CNN debate.  Hell........ we will even advertise it and so can you.  It will fun!!!!!!!!!

I say good luck to you Mike.  Do your research though.

Frank Hernandez 615-587-6700 (still awaiting your call Mike)

Mike..........I say we do a public meeting on any webinar forum you like and let's debate it.  I don't have all day to write on you email blog to UP your rating and besides........ I'm not a fast typer.  It would take me forever.

I'm not a realtor in these transaction so I have no fiduciary duties to answer to.  By the way on the contract we do state that the buyer has their real estate license in the state of TN so that it's FULL DISCLOSURE.  I actually do deals with Wells Fargo and have a great relationship with a few loss mitigators and have discussed this stuff at length with.  Did you actually read the affidavit?  There is NOTHING HIDDEN!!!!!!!!!!  Your statements are softballs Mike.  Honestly Mike your in a league here that you can't play in and in way over your head with National experts that will make you look like a fool.  If you want to set up a debate on any webinar forum........let's do it!  I'll bring my people and you can bring yours.  What do you say MIKE?  Do you actually have the balls to do that MIKE?  I don't think you do.

Prove me wrong!

Just so everyone knows............Mike has posted us with his cell # on here and won't speak with me about this.

Frank in Nashville

1.) These investors do NOT buy homes like they say they do!  They are really "transaction coordinators", not a "short sale home buyer", right??  I mean after all, they ONLY buy the house if they can find somebody to flip it to right away.  If they can't find a REAL buyer to buy it, the property goes into foreclosure, destroying the borrowers credit (could still be liable for money owed!).  The investor is out a whopping $10.  I have talked to MANY sellers who were under the impression that the investor/con artist was the person actually buying their home!

All of our sellers underestand that the investor will not buy the property unless we find an end buyer.  It's disclosed mulitiple times.  With that said, all investors that I work with are more than willing to withdraw their option to purchase if they're unable to make the deal beneficial for them and the property will be sold, no matter what.  There have been several instances where we put money into the property to turn on utilites, clean it up, etc and the investor backed out of the deal, we sold the house, and took a loss on the money that was spent. Our ulitmate goal, no matter what, is to sell the house whether we profit or not.  Speaking from my experience your statement is incorrect b/c we'll never, not if we have any control over it, let the house go to foreclosure. 

2.) The law has determined that "token consideration" ($10) can't constitute a valid contract, period.  This means you can't legally say you own a home, and can't make decisions like an owner could when offering token consideration. 

I believe that a seller signing an option contract along with a listing agreement as well as all other disclosures, etc does constitute a valid contract. Our sellers are always involved in the decision making and kept up to date on everything that is going on. That is, when they want to be, as I'm sure you've experienced a lot of them couldn't care less anymore, but those that want to have a say so definitely do. 

3.) What if the lender asks that the short sale deficiency be repaid by the home owner??  This is a very common occurrence.  What if, the investor tries to manipulate the lender and steal a home for $150K, instead of the $180K it may fetch if sold in a legitimate transaction.  What if, because the home sells for less, the lender asks that the home owner repay $40,000, instead of say $20,000 or nothing if the home had sold for a higher price.  Who's best interest is that in?  I challenge ANY agent who claims to have and ethics or values to tell my why they should be allowed to have a real estate license if they approve of this.

This is what I spoke about earlier. I've never had anyone get a deficiency judgement or promissory note.  If you are doing these deals correctly that's what makes this way of doing short sales great, I can raise my investor's offer, often wiping out profits in order avoid a judgement/note. We've never 'stuck it to a seller' in order to make money.  There are definitely times where we've made a nice profit but there have been many more times where we didn't make much more than the average 3% commission, but we did what we said we were going to do & saved that seller from foreclosure even if it means I come out of pocket. 

Mike,

I hope I addressed your issues. I'm not trying to fight with you abou this, I just want you to understand that not everyone doing short sales this way isn't out to screw people over. More times than not these days my investor withdraws his option if that's what it takes. 

I have another deal where we have withdrawn the option and my negotiator, just last week, called the bank and told them that I'm willing to give up my entire commission (and I am) if they would accept the end buyer's offer. This is a deal where we have an offer, no investor involved anymore and the bank still won't work with the seller to help them out.  The bank is so greedy they're going to sell the note to a collection agency for $15K, their exact response 'you can get me $15K or the collection agency will pay me $15K, either way , I'm getting $15K.'  The problem for me, I can't fix that, it's a second mortgage and the first won't allow more than $3K and the seller doesn't have $12k cash to give.   I just had another bank tell me to hide 1% of my commission on the HUD so they could get more than what the first was allowing. Yes, they said those exact words out loud.  They told me not to disclose something.  These experiences make it very difficult for me to feel sorry for the banks on any level. 

I just feel that it's unfair to assume that everyone doing short sales with an option contract is unethical. 

Dude...........That actually was Amanda down in FL.............Not me you idiot!!!!!!!  I wouldn't have taken that much time to respond......she did a great job by the way!

Also.............I'm NOT a realtor in the transaction so there is no fiduciary duties that I owe the distressed homeowner or the BANK for that matter as they are just a lien holder to the property.

Seriously Mike............ripping off the banks?????????  Are you kidding me?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  You really don't do a lot of business.  I actually know some of the biggest loss mitigation companies in the biz and I have NEVER heard them speak about ripping off the banks.

You must be one of those realtors that do BPO's that I've actually had them tell me that they will over evaluate a property because they want the property/listing when it forecloses.

I'm done with you nonsense and lack of research.  Go read the affidavit again.  When you actually understand everyone's part in the deal..........let me know and try that one again on me.

Frank (NOT Amanda)

Your credentials... That you wrote yourself lol

100+  deals this year lol  1000's of people you've helped lol THIS YEAR ALONE!!!!

I'm just a regular homeowner so I dont have much more to add.  I got a $160,000 house for $67,000 on a short sale this year from the bank,  Does that mean that I robbed the bank because they gave me a good deal.

I am curious - what exactly is the true and honest reason for your post here? 

"Again, my article was really meant to confront some very important issues and ultimately get peoples attention and get a reaction from some investors."

Your stereotypical views and self-righteous manner are very disturbing.  You make generalizations and accusations with what purpose?  To"get a reaction"? Or perhaps that you are confronting your competition in an effort to boost your own value to the real estate community?

I'm sure you do a bang up job for your clients and so do we.  Tears, hugs, letters of appreciation, I can't even begin to tell you how spotless our reputation is and YES WE ARE INVESTORS!!!!  We disclose, over and over again, we actually DO buy the properties and we keep our promises. It's not yours or my job to decide what's best for the banks believe me they pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for their advisors to tell them.

There are even some transactions that would NEVER be able to be put together WITHOUT two separate buy and sell settlements due to multiple liens and seller credit guidelines. How often are you able to get a 6% seller assist approved in one of your short sales? They get done but they are RARE. We SAVE transactions at our own expense.

You will never, ever, in your rant about "scammers, unethical, etc....." investors cause a flinch out of any of us that are out there ethically and morally buying and selling real estate for a (dare I say it....)  PROFIT.

Sounds to me like you need a vacation.

Amen, brother!

I understand that what some of the Short-Flip Option-Contract artists do is legal because they disclose EVERYTHING very plainly as they proceed.  They may even disclose that they are not acting as the agent for the seller, but as a licensed real estate professional who is working to help the seller accomplish a particular goal (removal of the debts without foreclosure).

If they were agents they would be obligated to not just seek a particular limited goal but to seek the BEST outcome possible for the seller. In particular paying off $X more of the seller's debts is that much less damage to the seller's credit (where $X is the outright profit, not commission they clear on the flip).

Clouding the title by recording the option or related disclosed documents cannot be construed in any way that I understand as seeking the BEST outcome for the seller.  Simply telling the seller that you are going to prevent foreclosure and then succeeding at it does not accomplish full agency obligations.

I know, if you get the seller to sign all the disclosures and do not say you are their agent, just a real estate professional, what you are doing is legal.

I will not present any short flip, or option contract on any of my short sale listings.  And yes, I have succeeded at a great many of them (closing 4 in the next 30 days).

Mike, in my view you may have not been precise, but where there's smoke, there is fire.

TWO QUOTES FROM MR MIKE

"I just don't like to be forced to pay taxes on the money these guys steal from banks"

"Around $1,000,000 in debt forgiven there.  Our volume is better lately."

Looks to me that you've negotiated $1,000,000 of legal obligations that homeowners had to these banks.  I think you owe our government a milllion dollars because our TAX MONEY is helping these banks out on debt the you got "Forgiven"  Are you the hero?  Who owes the banks? The homeowner who got the deal on the house? or you the knowledgeable realtor who got these legal debt obligations forgiven.

So are you saying that if an Investor discloses it to the bank that they are buying a reselling for a profit and the bank is OK with that, then you are Ok with an investor making money the same way you make money

and Why do you use terms like "Usually" as in "usually behind the lenders back"

Did you do some type of scientific survey in which you polled thousands of short sale investors all over the nation and over 50% of them said they never provided disclosure to the bank. 

Who's better for this market provided all the short sale disclosures are provided to the bank and end buyer

A. YOU as the Realtor: List property wait 3 months for a qualified buyer to come draw up a contract on the property.  Then submit a short sale offer to the bank only for the bank to take 3 months to approve the short sale offer, in this scenario the buyer of the property gets a heck of a deal on the property maybe as much as 20% below market value, you walk away with your commission.   Total turn around time 6 Months on average

B. The investor- draws up an offer immediately in the form of an option contract discloses to the bank that he is buying and reselling for a profit.  The wheel on the short sale is turning immediately in the 3 months it takes for the bank or approve the short sale the investor has found a buyer to sell for at or below market value.  He discloses to this buyer he is making a profit but this buyer is more than happy because he will not have to wait around 3 months for the bank to possibly approve the sale.  The investor does a double close and walks with a 20% spread sells the house at exactly market value. total turn around time 3 months. 

Sure you can say it doesn't take you 3 months to find your buyer (let's be realistic) In scenario A the buyer gets the discounted amount 20% off from the bank.  In scenario B the Investor walks with a 20% spread.  while the realtor took 6 months the investor took 3

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if all disclosures are proper and the investor and lets everyone in the transaction know about what's going on that.  READ Jeff Watson's free EBOOK "Navigating the Short Sale Jungle" to learn about proper and legal disclosures

That's what I thought good come back

That's funny that your changing your responses on the discussion board to make yourself look better, while your first one simply said

"Average single family houses of ours is going under contract in one month...  NEXT"

I'm sure a lot of investors sell homes in 30 days too but let's talk about the Average realtors turn around on selling a home in your county not one realtors turn around. 

You're good at scientific surveys go out and poll 1000 Realtors

Hey Mike,

"difference is that bank knew everything that was going on, that there were no "side deals" going on for them."

Everything is disclosed to the seller and the end buyer. The contract that is given to the bank clearly states that the buyer is an investor and intends to purchase and re-sell the property for a profit.

As far as profiting off the homeowners misfortune...isn't that what you're doing collecting a commission on these short sales? What if these end buyers turn around and sell this property a few months down the road and make a profit on it? Are they scammers too? And where does that put you who made the short sale happen in the first place to get the house at a discount?

OH WAIT, I forgot.. you didn't mention that you sell to buyers who are looking to go upsidedown on their investment and put themselves in a short sale situation down the road too.

Hmmm.. I think these buyers of yours might be taking advantage of these homeowners misfortunes...I mean, they ARE looking for short sale for a reason, aren't they..?

Is there really a difference if the property is re-sold in 3 years, 3 months or 3 hours?

Oh, and we CAN sell to FHA buyers who are willing to wait 90 days after we close to purchase the property.

We do look out for the homeowners best interest, moreso than you I'll propose. We do everything we can to get their deficiency waived, more than any one realtor can and would do on his/her own. The homeowners best option for getting the property sold and their deficiency waived is through us. We have a lot more leverage when it comes to that....if we can't do---it can't be done. How are you helping the homeowner more? Have you ever discounted your commission (more than the bank already does) or not gotten one to get the deal done?

Get educated.

According to my email, Mike... You are deleting some very good, educated posts and responses to this. HMMMM...... are we running out of answers?  We are, and there are many ethical investors out there...don't spoil it b/c of a few bad apples. There are scams in every industry, being done by many every day...including realtors. You're only going to get burnt in this debate about what we do and how we do it.

I see another religious moral judgment here. Judge not least ye be judged. Your jealousy is reeking all over the page. You have to be a moron to think that the option contract is illegal. Attorneys do them, banks allow them and escrow companies close them. The transaction is totally transparent with disclosure to the seller, the buyer, the short sale lender and the mortgage lender,

Where did you go to school to even suggest an option contract is illegal. For $10 and other valuable consideration has been used on all types of contracts and deeds for ages.

I will complete the short sale even if I can't make a dime. My only fiduciary responsibility to to the seller.

Part of my disclosure that seller must sign is below.

I understand that the Buyer will attempt to negotiate a short sale with all my Lenders who have a lien (claim) on my property and that Buyer has not made me any promises, guarantees or representations about their ability to successfully complete this task.

I understand that my Lender(s), even after agreeing to a short sale, may require that the difference between the original balance and the negotiated balance be paid by me and hold me personally responsible to pay it back.

I understand that the short sale may result in my owing taxes. Since Buyer said he is not giving me any tax advice, I should see an accountant or tax preparer to discuss these taxes.

I understand that my Lender(s) may report this short sale to a credit bureau and this may negatively affect my credit score.

I understand fully and completely that, if Buyer is not able to negotiate discounted payoffs with the Lender(s), they may proceed with foreclosure. 

I have not been promised any money if this short sale goes through. Whether or not the property sells, I don't expect any money at all. There are no unresolved issues and no "side agreements."

I have entered into a sales agreement to sell the above property and that agreement states that I understand that it is a short sale transaction and that it won't go through if my Lender(s) doesn't agree to take less than what is owed and that I won't get any money after the property is sold.

The sales agreement also states that I am giving the Buyer the rights to immediately list for sale, market, negotiate and enter into a contract to sell the property immediately to a third party and that all documentation in connection to the sale will be made available at the request of all Lenders and Buyers involved in the transactions.

  I understand that Buyer may make a profit from the resale or immediate resale of this property and that his only motivation is to make a profit.

 I understand that the Buyer is not acting on my behalf as an attorney, accountant, counselor, adviser, consultant or non-profit agency.

 I made $83,000 last month and have five more signed option contracts in my short sale files. How does that make you feel?

Remember ... Birds of a feather flock together. Who do you want to flock with? Hopefully not with a fanatic moralist loser.

It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. Mark Twain 

'I don't want to come off like I'm saying all short sale investors are con artists or anything, I just want to shed light on practices that are dishonest, deceitful, and unethical that are rampant in the industry.' ~Mike

Funny thing Mike, I think that's exactly what you are are trying to say. There have been several people giving examples of how they do these deals ethically and you still have a problem with them. I think these investors could buy the homes that day for full value and give the homeowners a car with a big red bow and you'd still have a problem with it.  You aren't open to discussing this topic, you have your mind made up: investors and options are bad bad bad.   

I've run into several agents that dislike the option so they do it the your 'normal' way and they manage to get their clients enormous promissory notes, require they bring money to closing, etc., all all after it sat on the market for 200 days, but I suppose the fact that they didn't use the option makes them ethical. Complete Crap!  

  Hello, I am an agent in central florida and I have feeling I know who amanda is, and if it is the amanda that works with short sale riches she is full of it when she says she is worried about helping people!  Her concern is money$$$$$$  Those who choose to get involved with this type of business have to know deep down that it is wrong but they are so blinded by the money they do not care.  When it finally comes to an end I hope Amanda does not find herself behind bars or without a license. 

Congratulations, the title to your post on Active Rain did get my attention and I choose to graciously accept your invitation to respond to you in a civil debate on this forum.

In reading your nutshell summary, I became confused. In the hundreds of real estate investors that I have trained and coached to use the option contract method (of which I am a co-creator), we would never urge them to market for properties in the method that you described. It is an ineffective waste of time resulting in the investor having to screen out a bunch of unworthy prospects. Furthermore, that type of marketing may not be consistent with the regulations in 24 out of the 50 states that deal with buying and selling properties that are in distress.

The presentation made to the homeowner allows the homeowner to select one of four methods to deal with the fact that they are upside down and unable to make their house payments. If the homeowner is not in both of those categories i.e. economically upside down and in distress by being unable to make their payments, the investor cannot deal with them.

The investor then lays out their four choices. They can do nothing and be foreclosed upon; they can delay, fight, squat, file for bankruptcy and other delay tactics; they can list with a real estate agent seeking to find some sort of buyer that will endure the arduous short sale process and still want to buy the property; or they can contract with a committed short sale investor who is committed to handling the short sale negotiations and buying the property. These options are explained in writing and an acknowledgment to the same is obtained on an affidavit of understanding.

Your suggestion that once the option is recorded the investor then tries to get the homeowner out of the property is totally wrong. The homeowner should remain occupying the property until the investor closes on the transaction buying the home and taking title to the property. But wait, if the investor actually buys the property and goes on title then that upsets the rest of the argument laid out in your post. Please remember that during this time and prior to the investor meeting the homeowner who is in default, distress or foreclosure, the homeowner is already in default, distress or foreclosure and the property is heading to the inevitable foreclosure auction. The actions of the investor via the option contract do nothing to accelerate that process and indeed frequently delay or slow down that process. Therefore your implication that if the investor doesn’t buy the property and keep it, then they are the ones responsible for destroying the homeowner’s credit, is completely disingenuous.

You state a token consideration of $10 cannot constitute a valid contract. First, you fail to cite any sort of legal authority on that matter and secondly you are unaware of the facts and the law. In your particular state, the law is that it must be significant and substantial consideration. What is significant and substantial varies upon the particulars of the individual transaction. Tell me something. How much would you pay for the right to buy an over-leveraged property that is in foreclosure and heading to the auction block in the next 60-90 days?

In your third point, you ask what if the lender asks that the short sale deficiency be repaid by the homeowner. Did you forget that the homeowner has already signed a promissory note for the full loan amount, and the lender has the right to seek the repayment of it in full? That is why seeking some sort of a deficiency is very common. However, what frequently happens is that ethical investors (the ones that I coach and teach) are willing to increase the purchase price that they are paying for the property in order to negotiate the elimination of the deficiency in its entirety. How many buyers that you represent are willing to pay extra so that the seller in foreclosure has no deficiency?

The inflammatory statement that you make of “what if, the investor tries to manipulate the lender and steal the home for $150k, instead of $180k it may fetch if sold in a legitimate transaction” is a very egregious statement for a number of reasons. Investors do not manipulate lenders. Lenders obtain their own independent valuation of the property. “Stealing a home for $150k”; you mean buying anything on a discount is theft? I am sure you pay full retail whenever you buy anything, right?

Furthermore, I am sure that you believe that the only legitimate real estate transactions are those where buyers sell to sellers who are going to take possession and occupy the property, correct? What about landlords? What about rehabbers? What about flippers? Are all of these people illegitimate transaction engineers?

This questions is for Jeff Watson.  Does the mortgage company know that you are flipping the house right away?  Does the new buyer know what you are doing?  Is this type of thing really against regulations in florida?  If so then why are so many agents doing it?  Are you joining the owner on the deed?  If agents are so welling to help then why not sell it for the bank and a new owner at the first price and get paid a normal real estate commission instead?  People say that they fully disclose, is that true??  If you think it is so ethical then why argue about it?? 

Bravo to you, Mike, for initiating this discussion about a subject that frequently involves mortgage fraud and violations of the Code of Ethics for Realtors.

I read many of the posts and I would like to share my comments. I have been practicing law for 35 years, and I am a Florida Bar Certified Real Estate Lawyer. I, too, am bothered by the frequent deception and lack of disclosure when parties other than the actual owner attempt to sell their property in a short sale. Many of these transactions may be unethical and many of them violate Florida law. Florida Statutes 817.545 ("Mortgage Fraud") states that a person commits the offense of mortgage fraud if, with the intention to defraud, the person knowingly makes any material misstatement, misrepresentation, or omission during the mortgage lending process with the intention that the misstatement, misrepresentation, or omission will be relied on by a mortgage lender, borrower, or any other person or entity involved in the mortgage lending process. This law defines mortgage lending process as the process through which a person seeks or obtains a residential mortgage loan, including but not limited to the solicitation, application, or origination, negotiation of terms, third-party provider services, underwriting, signing and closing and funding of the loan. This law also states that a person who uses or facilitates the use of any material misstatement, misrepresentation, or omission during the mortgage lending process with the intention that the same be relied on by a mortgage lender, borrower, or any other person or entity involved in the mortgage lending process is mortgage fraud. Additionally, a person who receives any proceeds or any other funds in connection with the mortgage lending process that the person knew resulted from a violation of the above or causes to be filed with the clerk of the court a document involved in the mortgage lending process which contains material misstatement, misrepresentation, or omission commits mortgage fraud.

An equally important Florida law is Florida Statutes 501.1377, commonly known as the mortgage rescue law, became effective on October 1, 2008. In this law the Florida Legislature specifically made a finding that homeowners who are in default on their mortgages may be vulnerable to fraud, deception, and unfair dealings with foreclosure-rescue consultants or equity purchasers. An equity purchaser is defined as a person who acquires a legal equitable or beneficial ownership interest in any residential real property as a result of a foreclosure-rescue transaction. (The term does not apply to a person who acquires such title by a certificate of title, by order of court, from a spouse, parent, grandparent, grandchild, or sibling or a deed in lieu of foreclosure.) A foreclosure-rescue consultant is defined as a person who directly or indirectly makes a solicitation, representation, or offer to a homeowner to provide or perform in return for the payment of money or other valuable consideration, foreclosure-related rescue services. There are certain exemptions for charitable and non-profit agencies as determined by IRS Code 501c3, for financial institutions defined in Florida Statutes 655.005, for licensed mortgage brokers, and for attorneys who provide foreclosure rescue-related services as an ancillary matter to that attorney's representation of a homeowner as a client. In that law foreclosure rescue-related services means any good or service related to or promising assistance in connection with stopping, avoiding, or delaying foreclosure proceedings concerning residential property or curing or otherwise address a default. A foreclosure-rescue transaction means a transaction by which residential real property in foreclosure is conveyed to an equity purchaser and the homeowner maintains a legal or equitable interest in the residential real property and is designed or intended by the parties to stop, avoid, or delay foreclosure. The law defines residential real property as consisting of one-family to four-family dwelling units.

This law prohibits a foreclosure-rescue consultant from engaging or initiating a foreclosure-related rescue service without first signing a written agreement with the homeowner, and it prohibits soliciting, charging, receiving, or attempting to collect payment for foreclosure-related rescue services before completing all services. The written agreement for the services must be printed in at least 12-point upper case type and signed by both parties. The written agreement must include the name and address of the rescue service, the exact nature of the services to be provided, the total amount of charges, and the date of the agreement. The date of the agreement cannot be earlier than the date that the homeowner signed it. The rescue consultant must give the homeowner a copy of the agreement at least one business day before the homeowner signed it. After that, the homeowner has the right to cancel the agreement without any penalty within 3 business days after signing it. If the homeowner cancels it, any payments that have been received by the rescue consultant must be returned to the homeowner within 10 business days.

An equity purchaser is required to give the homeowner a written notice in at least 12-point upper case type which must contain the entire agreement between the parties and must include the name, business address, and phone number of the equity purchaser, the street address and full legal description of the property, a clear and conspicuous disclosure of any financial or legal obligations of the homeowner that will be assumed by the equity purchaser, the total consideration to be paid by the equity purchaser, and terms of payment for any services that the equity purchaser represents will be performed for the homeowner before or after the sale and the time and date when possession of the property is to be transferred to the equity purchaser. Additionally, in any foreclosure-rescue transaction in which the homeowners is provided the right to repurchase the residential real property, the homeowner has a 30-day right to cure any default of the terms of the contract with the equity purchaser, and this right to cure may be exercised on up to three separate occasions. The law also provides that in any foreclosure-rescue transaction, before or at the time of conveyance, the equity purchaser must fully assume or discharge any lien in foreclosure as well as any prior liens that will not be extinguished by the foreclosure, and if the homeowner has the right to repurchase the property, the equity purchaser must verify and be able to demonstrate that the homeowner has or will have a reasonable ability to make the required payments to exercise the option to repurchase. There is a presumption that the homeowner does have the ability to repurchase if the homeowner's monthly payments for primary housing expense and regular monthly principal and interest payments on other personal debut do not exceed 60% of the homeowner's monthly gross income. The law goes on to state that if the homeowner has the right to repurchase the property, the price may not be unconscionable, unfair, or commercially unreasonable. There is a rebuttal presumption that the price is unconscionable if it is great than 17% per annum more than the total amount paid by the equity purchaser when the equity purchaser purchased the property. If the repurchase agreement or memorandum of it is recorded in the public records, the presumption arising under this section of the law will not apply against creditors or subsequent purchasers for value without notice.

Realtors involved in short sale flipping should be particularly aware of the National Association of Realtors Code of Ethics. Article I of the Code provides that Realtors pledge themselves to protect and promote the interests of their client but that this obligation to the client does not relieve Realtors of their obligation to treat all parties honestly. Standard of Practice 1-3 states that Realtors, in attempting to secure a listing, shall not deliberately mislead the owner as to market value. Article II of the Code states that Realtors shall avoid exaggeration, misrepresentation, or concealment of pertinent facts relating to the property or the transaction. Standard of Practice 2-4 provides that Realtors shall not be parties to the naming of a false consideration in any document, unless it be the naming of an obviously nominal consideration (such as showing that a deed conveyance price is $10.00 and other valuable consideration). Article 9 provides that Realtors shall assure whenever possible that all agreements related to real estate transactions are to be in writing in clear and understandable language expressing the specific terms, conditions, obligations, and commitments of the parties. Article 12 requires that Realtors be honest and truthful in their real estate communications and shall present a true picture in their advertising, marketing, and other representations.

On October 30, 2009 I attended a seminar presented by United States Attorney for the Middle District of Florida Brian Albritton, Assistant United States Attorney in Jacksonville Mac D. Heavener, III, and FBI agent Rick Dent, who serves as supervisor of mortgage fraud cases in the Jacksonville, Florida FBI office. The presenters announced Florida's new mortgage fraud surge, which is a joint effort by the U.S. Attorney's office in the Middle District of Florida, the FBI in Jacksonville and Tampa, and numerous other federal, state, and local enforcement agencies. The surge focuses intensive investigative and prosecutorial resources on the mortgage fraud crisis that is "epidemic" in Florida. It is designed to accelerate mortgage fraud cases in order to bring perpetrators to justice quickly and provide maximum deterrents. Mr. Albritton stated that essentially mortgage fraud is lying or failure to disclose where there is a duty to disclose. They gave numerous examples of mortgage fraud including one where someone promises to help an upside down owner takes title to an owner's property and then puts a tenant in possession and collects the rent but does not pay any of the rent funds to the former owner or to their lender. I specifically asked the panel whether it might be mortgage fraud for someone to buy a short sale property and fail to disclose to the payoff lender that they have another buyer in the wings at a higher price. Assistant U. S. Attorney Mac D. Heavener, III indicated that this may well be loan fraud. On November 5, 2009, Albritton announced that approximately 30 people were just indicted in Northeast Florida for mortgage fraud.

Mike, while there are some unethical attorneys, the majority of attorneys are ethical.

Jeff Marks, Attorney

Agents Have No Duty to Submit Short Sale Offers - Surprised?

In the course of my speaking to and networking with short sale practitioners in numerous markets across the nation I regularly encounter those who have a completely false impression with respect to who owes which duties to whom in the course of a short sale transaction. More specifically, many agents (both on the selling and buying sides of transactions) erroneously think that ALL short sale offers must be presented to lenders - nothing could be further from the truth!

While all real estate law is subject to individual State legislation and interpretation, and while several areas of law come into play in the course of a real estate transaction (e.g.: contract law, agency law, etc.) there are general principals and practices that can be said to apply. Generally speaking, the laws work like this:

• The listing agent for a property owes their fiduciary duties (care, confidentiality, obedience, accountability, loyalty, and disclosure) to the principal/client, who is virtually always the OWNER of the property.
• ALL offers must be presented to the OWNER of the property.
• The OWNER decides which offer(s) to accept, reject, or counter, based solely on the OWNER'S personal criteria, which may, or may not be price (e.g.: A fast sale may be more important to the owner than a top dollar sale. Similarly, a cash, "as-is" offer may be perceived by the owner to be a better bet than a higher priced offer that has to go through financing and inspection approvals).

For some reason, I find that a very large number of practitioners treat Short Sale transactions as if they were already REO transactions. Such confusion leads to wrong decisions with respect to the presentation of offers, and complicates and prolongs an all too often already complicated and time consuming process. Given these general principals, and in order to answer the question of whether all offers must be presented to a short sale lender, let's explore the differences between Short Sale and REO/Bank Owned transactions

In an REO transaction the lender has already foreclosed on the property, which means that the LENDER is the OWNER of the property. If we apply the three general principals outlined above to an REO transaction we see that:

• The listing agent for the property owes their fiduciary duties to the LENDER.
• ALL offers must be presented to the LENDER.
• The LENDER decides which offer(s) to accept, reject, or counter, based on the LENDER'S own criteria.

In a Short Sale transaction, while the lender may have initiated the foreclosure process, the BORROWER is still the OWNER of the property. If we apply the three general principals outlined above to a Short Sale transaction we see that:

• The listing agent for the property owes their fiduciary duties to the BORROWER (not the lender).
• ALL offers must be presented to the BORROWER (not the lender).
• The BORROWER (not the lender) decides which offer(s) to accept, reject, or counter, based solely on the BORROWER'S personal criteria, which may, or may not be price (e.g.: In the case of a short sale situation, where interest, fees, and legal costs continue to accrue until the property is sold, a fast sale may be more important to the borrower than a top dollar sale. Similarly, a cash, "as-is" offer may be perceived by the borrower to be a better bet than a higher priced offer that has to go through financing and inspection approvals).

Clearly, in the case of a Short Sale, the agent works for the borrower and the borrower makes the decisions as to which offer(s) to accept, reject, or counter. Once a decision to accept an offer is made by the BORROWER, only then is the offer forwarded to the lender. The transaction proceeds as does any other with respect to subsequent offers that may come in - once an offer is accepted, the borrower is "under contract" (subject to third party approval by the lender) and they do not continue to entertain offers. Yes, they may accept an offer as a "back-up," but a back-up offer only comes into play when/if the initially accepted offer falls apart, and only then would it be forwarded to the lender.

The lender is merely a third party "approver" of the transaction - they are not "a party to" the transaction. This is an important distinction! The lender simply has the right to reject, or accept the offers that the borrower chooses to forward. You must remember that a short sale is a completely voluntary attempt by a borrower to avoid a foreclosure -- a borrower does not have to opt for a short sale. That being the case, if a borrower is under no obligation to even attempt a short sale, how in the world could it be said that a lender has a right to be presented an offer?

Now that you understand the borrower's obligation to present offers vis-à-vis the lender, let's shift gears and specifically focus on the short sale listing agent by first asking some questions about the general obligations of real estate agents to their clients, and then extrapolating the answers to short sale agents specifically.

Generally speaking, would it ever be tolerated for the agent of a client to act AGAINST the best interests of that client? Would it ever be tolerated for the agent of a client to act on behalf of a party who was acting expressly AGAINST the interests of their client? The answers of course are that, "Such acts would never be tolerated!"

That said, how could it be possible for the agent of a borrower to be compelled to work for the lender? Isn't the lender working for THEIR OWN best interests, and not those of the borrower?

Clearly, the lender is working for their own best interests, which are directly adverse to the borrower's interests (after all, the lender is either in the process of, or threatening to foreclose on the borrower's property, which is about as adverse a situation as there is). Given the nature of an agent's fiduciary duties to their clients, the agent for a borrower MUST do all that is legally within the scope of their representation to PROTECT the borrower from the lender and to advocate on behalf of the BORROWER'S position, not the position of the lender. There is nothing wrong with this - this is exactly what an agent is hired to do!

Now that it's been explained to you, doesn't it make sense?

Do you see how you have been mistaken if you thought that all short sale offers had to be presented to the lender? If you are a listing agent, do you see how presenting all short sale offers to the lenders could constitute a breech of your fiduciary duties to your clients? If you are a buyer's agent, do you see that you have absolutely no right whatsoever to DEMAND that your buyers' short sale offers be presented to lenders?

The bottom line is this: A borrower has no obligation to present all short sale offers to a lender, which means that a borrower's agent has no obligation to present all short sale offers to a lender, which means that a buyer's agent has no right to demand their short sale offer be presented to the lender. To transact under any other premise is to misunderstand the process completely.

Mike,

It sounds like you really don't know what you are talking about and are just trying to make noise so people will hear that you are some big shot that closes tons of short sales. You are a douche bag. There is nothing illegal about option contracts especially if it is fully disclosed. Banks have a net price and homeowners don't care what the home sells for. The idiot at the bank that is making 12/hr could care less if they get a penny more than what there net price is. Do a little research before you start preaching.

When reading through all the posts claiming that everything is disclosed to the lender and nobody is being scammed, I have to laugh out loud!

I do BPO's and I know my market very well. Everytime I do a BPO for a few specific agents in my area, I get transfered to "Bob" when I call and ask for the lockbox. Bob then tells me that he will send me a list of repairs the property needs, he will send me a BPO that was done by an agent from the listing office and he will tell me how high/low the offer is and that the distressed homeowners would really appreciate it if I could help them out - BY FAKING THE BPO SO IT SUPPORTS THE OFFER FROM THE INVESTOR, WHO WILL TURN AROUND AND SELL THE HOME TO THE ACTUAL END BUYER AFTER TAKING A NICE PROFIT.

The main plot of the phone conversation between me and Bob is that Bob is telling me just how desperate these home owners are. Wouldn't it be great if I could help out these home owners and sleep better at night knowing that I did the right thing? Bet you that none of the above is being disclosed to the bank. The bank looks at the faked BPO's and thinks that's as good as it's gonna get.

THE ETHICAL DILEMMA... OK.. AGENTS.. LISTEN UP!!! YOU SHOULD HELP THE HOME OWNER IN DISTRESS BY LISTING AND SELLING AND NEGOTIATING ALL FOR FREE!! OTHERWISE.. BY CHARGING YOUR 6 OR 7 PERCENT COMMISSION YOU ARE CREATING A BIGGER DEFICIENCY FOR THE HOME OWNER.. AM I WRONG... THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE A LICENSE DOESN'T MEAN IT IS OK FOR YOU TO CREATE THAT DEFICIENCY. YOU ARE STILL MAKING MONEY OFF OF THIS POOR HOME OWNER AND THAT MAKES IT ETHICAL? WELL .. HOW ABOUT THE INVESTOR WORKING HIS ASS OFF TO MAKE THE SALE GO THROUGH DESERVES THE PAY JUST AS MUCH AS YOU DO AS AN AGENT. WHY CANT WE ALL WORK TOGETHER FOR THE SAME CAUSE AND STOP POINTING FINGERS. PLUS.. C'MON,, YOU AGENTS ARE OVERPAID FOR WHAT YOU OFFER AND DO.. YOU ARE NOT LAWYERS OR STUDIED FOR YEARS TO GET A LICENSE.. YOU DON'T DESERVE TO MAKE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU MAKE BY LISTING A HOME AND WAITING FOR PEOPLE TO BUY IT.. I AM AN AGENT.. BUT I HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE IN ECONOMICS.. SO IT DOES NOT MAKE ME PROUD TO SAY I AM A REALTOR.. I ONLY NEEDED A HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA FOR THAT.. SO.. I BECAME AN INVESTOR.. MAKES SENSE TO PUT MY SCHOOL AND LEARNED ABILITIES IN ECONOMICS TO WORK. I FEEL MUCH BETTER ABOUT MYSELF NOW..  DO YOU UNDERSTADN LITTLE AGENT THAT COULD? GOSH... GET EDUCATED.. GO TO SCHOOL.. LETS WORK TOGETHER.

Thanks for the blog Mike. I've run into a few of these bottom feeders myself all of whom have very shady reputations around here.

It is always in the best interest of the seller to have FULL EXPOSURE to the market in hopes of getting the best price and mitigating losses to the owner and lender(s). Agreeing to let someone record an option to purchase for a whopping 10 bucks thereby clouding the title and discouraging competitive offers is indeed unethical behaviour. If these properties are listed, what is their status? Sale pending? Subject to option? In any case they are no longer active and available thereby eliminating competitive offers at least on my local MLS. If they aren't listed, the property is not getting market exposure, again unethical behaviour for a licensed realtor. The last time I checked agents are required to get the best deal possible for their clients. If I let a client sign one of these things I'd run the risk of being sued, not to mention the fact that my broker would hand me my license and show me the door.  

If you option scammers really want to help distressed homeowners, write a bona fide competitive offer to purchase, pay the holding costs, make the improvements and hope the market rewards you with a profit. It's called risk and it's the only way to create real wealth in a free economy. You want to record an exclusive option to purchase someone's home, at your convenience, and only if you think you can make money on the deal for less than you'd risk on dinner for 2 at McDonald's. And you think it's ethical?

Bradly,

1. Yes, a good faith offer with a real earnest money deposit and proof of funds takes the property off the market pending bank aproval. Your scheme provides neither.

2. An option contract is NOT an offer to purchase. It does not bind the optionee beyond the 10.00 deposit. It discourages bona fide offers because the title can only be cleared if the optionee agrees.

3. The best offer for the seller is a bona fide purchase contract. Again, options are not offers to purchase.

4&5. My duty is indeed to my client not the bank. The best outcome for my client is a purchase contract that the bank will accept without a deficiency judgement or promissary note. The purchase price matters.

6. You are correct, banks do not consider short sales without an offer to purchase. Once again  you fail to understand, or admit, that an option contract is not an offer to purchase.

7. No, it is not a bona fide offer to purchase. in the real world an offer to purchase must be signed by the principle, i.e. the buyer, must be acompanied by significant consideration, i.e. a substantial earnest money deposit, and proof that the buyer has or can obtain funds to close.

8&9. The idea that tying the property up in an option contract will somehow speed up the process is to absurd to dignify with an answer.

10. The option contracts I've read require a risk of 10.00. I fail to see any value.

11. I am a real estate agent and investor. I've purchased foreclosed and short sale properties, rehabbed and marketed them and made good money doing it. I've also represented sellers and buyers in short sale contracts. I've personally negotiated deals with most of the big banks. I'm very familiar with the process as it has evolved over the last few years.

You call yourself an investor but it's not clear what you're investing beyond your ten bucks. Realtors list and sell short sale properties every day. It's time consuming, frustrating work and not particularly financially rewarding. I have a real world education in short sales.

You don't know, or will not acknowledge, the difference between an option contract and a purchase contract. If you are representing to homeowners, as you have on this website, that they are the same thing, your behaviour is definitely unethical and fraudulent and probably illegal.

while i applaud your passion, i disagree with the extent to which you broadly brush a strategy that can be beneficial for the seller, the banker and the end buyer.

everything you point out is based on deceptions perpetrated by dishonest individuals.  what about being totally transparent about intentions on all sides? in this case there would be no fraud to the seller, the bank or the end buyer.

banks are swamped by massive numbers of houses, that is obvious, so there is a role for the "reseller" as you call them. there is a legitimate business model that assists the seller to get from under a foreclosure, the banks to avoid adding foreclosures to an already overburdened system, to the investor who must fund the deal with the banks and make sure the end buyer can get funded to purchase a bargain and to the investor who should be paid for bringing together the deal. making the deal work  involves skill and finance capacities and add value to the transaction.

you don't object to the salesperson who provides a commodity at a price? all the middlemen, the inventor, manufacturer, etc., get paid or there would be no product to sell. in this case, you confuse honest investors with the wall street bandits who simply manipulate money without any value added.

the banks do not get manipulated, they have professionals at all levels to insure their interests. if the bank does the deal it is because that deal meets the requirements of the bank at that time. any short sale that we participate in the banks know that we are investors with the intent of immediate resale. the sellers know we intend to profit upon the resale of the property and the end buyers know that we have purchased the property from the bank at a discount which allows the end buyer to purchase a deal--getting a portion of the discount--they benefit by eliminating a problem property, and facilitate financing--a specific value when the regular financial markets are not lending or making it especially difficult to buy.

so you really need to tone down the strident affect of your diatribe and be more balanced in the way you portray this particular strategy. separate the crooks from the good guys, in other words. avoid damaging the ability of a seller to get things done.

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Listen.. Realtors like to talk.. too much.. about what they don't know. Investors: Please do not waste your time writing lenghty arguments.. No matter what you say, these folks won't listen. Let's just keep doing what we do as we always have.. people will think what they want anyways. Go make some money now

Just a couple points in response to recent comments.

The sites noted by Mike above seem to be hawking their short sale negotiating services to get agent participation. Competent agents don't need to deal with these outfits to negotiate with banks. I generally do my own negotiations but if I decide I don't want to spend the time there are plenty of local attorneys who'll handle it. The banks are used to reasonable attorney fees on the HUD1.

I have no problem with flipping properties for a profit or making money on real estate transactions, hell I'm a realtor for crissakes. But real investors, the people who risk their own money buying and rehabbing distressed properties, have been hurt by the Fannie, Freddie, FHA 90 day flipper rules that were promulgated specifically in response to option scammers. It's bad for the market and I blame the double closing schemers.

I've had option contracts submitted for some of my listings. I've read a lot of contracts and legal documents in my time and contrary to the ongoing assertions above, they are not offers to purchase with a "real buyer". They do in fact attempt to give the optionee an "equitable" interest in the property with no real consideration paid to the seller for the purpose of allowing the optionee to control any transaction that may follow. I will agree that the ones I've read do offer full disclosure of their intentions. The question is whether the distressed homeowner who may be involved in three or four real estate transactions in a lifetime really understands what they're signing or whether it's of any value to them. Most are probably too broke to get the advice of a good lawyer.

If I'm an agent who's found a seller and put up a listing on the MLS whats my motivation to get involved you guys? Your stated intention is to market the property on the MLS but The work is already done. I can't speak to practices in other markets but if I submitted a listing change wherein the listing contract is not signed by the owner or a trustee but by some outfit that holds a 10.00 option contract I'm pretty sure any reputable broker would tell me to get out of the office and get my own E&O insurance.

If you guys have ready buyers who are willing to pay a premium for these properties in exchange for your involvement then buy the damn thing and resell it. You don't need an option contract and you don't need to drag realtors into it. But you don't have buyers do you. You need licensed agents to market the property.  And you're not really investors are you. You don't want to risk more than ten bucks on the deal. What you really want is legal standing to insert yourself into the process, and profit from it, with no financial risk.

At best you people are redundant. Realtors find listings, put together short sale docs, negotiate with banks and close sales every day. Sellers don't need you, Realtors don't need you and banks don't need you. The short sale process does not require your involvement. You bring nothing of value to the table.

At worst you are creating more problems for upside down homeowners who already have enough troubles and you are doing great harm to a real estate market that's already worse than it's been in decades.

Guess what: there are honest Realtors and dishonnest Realtors, there are honest Short-Sale flippers and dishonest Short-Sale flippers, shouldn't require any further debate.

Is it any surprise that a Realtor who specializes in listing short-sale properties would want to spread as much negative information about short-sale investors? Guess what, once the seller has signed the agreement with the investor, this "paragon of virtue" can no longer list there home!

Sellers are adults. If they want to get top dollar for their home, and their goal is to repay as much of the loan balance as possible, then they should list it on the MLS and cherrypick the highest net to the bank. If speed is their goal and they are not concerned with the net to the bank only release of the lien (because the bank waives the right to deficiency judgement, there in a non-recourse state, or planning on declaring bankruptcy, etc.) then an investor is a better option. And may I say that in my experience, a transaction with an investor seeking to flip the short sale and isn't going to close otherwise is just as likely to close as a transaction involving a retail buyer contingent upon FHA financing and the like. This blog makes it sound like seller's are ignorant sheep that can't form a rational thought for themselves. Have more respect for your customers!

Also, If you're reason for writing this blog is honestly that you are sick of your tax dollars going to pay for the bank's losses that the investors are exacerbating (I won't even go into how little sense that logic makes) then you should be spending your time writing to your congressman! I couldn't agree more, our tax dollars shouldn't be going to the bank regardless of who was "responsible" fo the loss.

As with all information on the internet, consider the source. Anyone closing 100 transactions a month shouldn't have time to write a page a day on a blog!

Mike

You shouldn't use the word SCAM ARTIST. Lets look back at the years 2002 to 2007 I do believe that the REALTORS was the BIGGEST SCAM ARTIST on the planet they  got there FREINDLY APPRAISOR to get the highest prices for there listing REMEMBER if it wasn't for the realtors jacking up these prices the homeowner wouldn't be in the situation they are in now thanks to their FRIENDLY REALTOR.

Mike Jackson Optiion Investor