I have been seeing alarmist ads of TV about the American Clean Energy & Security Act of 2009 for some time now, but it took an email from one of my past customers to get me to look into it a bit further. I certainly had no idea that it may have such a dramatic impact on housing and the ability for owners to sell their homes as it appears that it may. A part of the problem is that very few people anywhere, including the Congress, have any real idea of what is hidden in this bill and what impact it might have on everyday life.

The name of the bill is innocuous enough. I mean who can argue that we don't need cleaner energy and that saving on energy use and costs wouldn't somehow make us all more secure. But in this nice sounding bill, as in many things in life, the devil is in the details. The bill, as it was passed by the House of Representatives and sent to the Senate, is 1427 pages long. It has 835 Sections dealing with all sorts of rules regulations and programs. The bill was sponsored primarily by Representative Henry Waxman of California, which in itself explains a lot.

When I received the email from my past client, he passed on some comments that he had received from someone who apparently took the time to read through the bill and highlight the areas that should be of concern to homeowners. Below, in parentheses are a few of his comments. The author has obviously reached his own strong opinions about the bill, so take these with a grain of salt. Since this Arthur has interspersed so much of his personal opinion into the content below, you may wish to go read the bill yourself, which you can do at  http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2454 . I have also put a complete PDF version on my Web site at http://www.themilfordteam.com/PDF/HR2454_Bill.PDF

Beginning 1 year after enactment of the Act, you won't be able to sell your home unless you retrofit it to comply with the energy and water efficiency standards of this Act.

    H.R.  2454, the "Cap & Trade" bill passed by the House of Representatives, if also passed by the Senate, will be the largest tax increase any of us has ever experienced.  The Congressional Budget Office (supposedly non-partisan) estimates that in just a few years the average cost to every family of four will be $6,800 per year.  No one is excluded.  However, once the lower classes feel the pinch in their wallets, these voters may get a tax refund (even if they pay no taxes at all) to offset this new cost.  Thus you, Mr.  and Mrs.  Middle Class America, will have to pay even more since additional tax dollars will be needed to bail out everyone else.

    But wait.  This awful bill (that very few or no one in Congress has actually read) has many more surprises in it.  Probably the worst one is this:  A year from now you won't be able to sell your house.

    Yes, you read that right.  The caveat is (there always is a caveat) that if you have enough money to make required major upgrades to your home, then you can sell it.  But, if not, then forget it.  Even pre-fabricated homes ("mobile homes") are included.  In effect, this bill prevents you from selling your home without the permission of the EPA administrator.

    To get this permission, you will have to have the energy efficiency of your home measured.  Then the government will tell you what your new energy efficiency requirement is and you will be forced to make modifications to your home under the retrofit provisions of this Act to comply with the new energy and water efficiency requirements.  Then you will have to get your home measured again and get a license (called a "label" in the Act) that must be posted on your property to show what your efficiency rating is; sort of like the Energy Star efficiency rating label on your refrigerator or air conditioner If you don't get a high enough rating, you can't sell.  And, the EPA administrator is authorized to raise the standards every year, even above the automatic energy efficiency increases built into the Act.

Sect.  202:
    Building Retrofit Program mandates a national retrofit program to increase the energy efficiency of all existing homes across America .

    Beginning 1 year after enactment of the Act, you won't be able to sell your home unless you retrofit it to comply with the energy and water efficiency standards of this Act.  You had better sell soon, because the standards will be raised each year and will be really hard (i.e., ex$pen$ive) to meet in a few years.  The Act allows the government to give you a grant of several thousand dollars to comply with the retrofit program requirements if you meet certain energy efficiency levels.  But, wait, the State can set additional requirements on who qualifies to receive the grants.  You should expect requirements such as "can't have an income of more than $50K per year", "home selling price can't be more than $125K,. 

Sect.  204:
    Building Energy Performance Labeling Program establishes a labeling program that for each individual residence will identify the achieved energy efficiency performance for "at least 90 percent of the residential market within 5 years after the date of the enactment of this Act." This means that within five years, 90% of all residential homes in the U.S.  must be measured and labeled.  The EPA administrator will get $50M each year to enforce the labeling program.  The Secretary of the Department of Energy will get an additional $20M each year to help enforce the labeling program. 


Sect.  304:
    Greater Energy Efficiency in Building Codes establishes new energy efficiency guidelines for the National Building Code and mandates at 304(d) that 1 year after enactment of this Act, all state and local jurisdictions must adopt the National Building Code energy efficiency provisions or must obtain a certification from the federal government that their state and/or local codes have been brought into full compliance with the National Building Code energy efficiency standards.

I'm generally not a fan of alarmist rants by people with a particular ax to grind and the author of the comments above may have misinterpreted some things however, this bill appears to have lots and lots and lots of things buried in it that will cost everyone lots of money to comply with in the future. It deserves to be exposed too much more scrutiny than it has received and hopefully the Senate in its deliberate style will find and remove or modify some of the more onerous provisions that the House bill contains. I'm generally in favor of doing things to decrease our use of energy in all aspects of life; however, having the government come into my home and tell me that I must do this or that to improve it's energy efficiency before I can sell it feels more like a home invasion than a helpful program.

The American Clean Energy and Security Act appears to be another misguided attempt by our so-called leaders to save us from ourselves. I think they should stick to passing legislation that lawn mowers need labels that say that one shouldn't stick their hand under the mower while it running. That's still stupid, but at least it didn't cost us much.

I checked to see if this topic has been posted here before and it has, but with surprisingly little follow-up comment. It would seem to me that anyone not already living in California would be at least a little alarmed by the provisions of this bill as they apply to homeowners, especially the need to meet some ill-defined set of energy standards before one is allowed to sell. It will be too late to get up-in-arms after the fact, if this bill passes as it is currently written.

 
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44 Comments on Shouldn't Realtors be fighting this bill?

OCT
26
565,567 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

This is a dangerous bill, with very little IF ANY help to the environment.

We need to release the states to drill or produce and get off the foreign oil.

Of course EVERY administration has been talking about it for years and we keep using more and more and more.

 

7:27am • #1
565,567 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

This is a dangerous bill, with very little IF ANY help to the environment.

We need to release the states to drill or produce and get off the foreign oil.

Of course EVERY administration has been talking about it for years and we keep using more and more and more.

 

7:27am • #2

I have heard of this before and I don't see it getting much publicity eithe. The good news is that it is so intrusive, so costly, and so over the top, I don't see how this will ever get through. Nothing ever gets through in its original form, so I'm not all that worried about this yet and what the language in the bill says. It may linger and do nothing for years.

As bad as it is, does anyone honestly think something of this magnitude, and the horrific effects it would have on the real estate industry and homeowners of all income brackets, do you honestly think it would ever become law?

I highly doubt it.

7:47am • #3
Outside Blog

Norm I think we need to really focus on this bill.  It has the potential to destroy - that's right destroy - the housing market as we know it. 

I care deeply about the environment but I do not believe in man made global warming.  The earth has survived BILLIONS of years and countless calamaties.  It's sheer human arrogance to believe we can "Save the planet."  by visiting our local Toyota dealer and buying a Prius. 

OK rant done for the morning:)

7:52am • #4

I haven't read the bill, but I'm having a hard time understanding how NAR would support this legislation (which it apparently does) if it did contain such damaging restrictions.

- Scott

7:55am • #5
275,005 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Norm, thank  you  for bringing out the information on this onerous bill!  It's reminiscent of the "New Speak" in George Orwell's "1984": Government calling something terrible by an innocent name, like "clean energy". 

I don't trust any bill at all coming out of this Congress.  Before we're unemployed and destitute, Realtors and all others who believe in American values and freedom should vigorously fight this bill!

8:05am • #6
Outside Blog

I have looked into it and it seems NAr did also here is a story from NJAR

"

On June 26, 2009, H.R. 2998 was passed by the U.S. House of Representatives and includes the NAR-supported provisions which were championed by Rep. Perlmutter (D-CO) that exempt existing homes and buildings from the bill's energy labeling program. The House approved bill limits the energy labeling to new construction only. Furthermore, when the new construction is (inevitably) sold, it does not require a new energy audit at that time. Nowhere in the legislation is there a requirement for energy audits at the point of sale at any time for any structure regardless of when it was built. The real estate provisions contained in this legislation is a significant improvement from what was in the original bill. The original legislation would have required energy audits and labeling at the time of sale. REALTORS® succeeded in making many positive changes before the bill passed. Thank you to all who responded to the NAR calls for action and made this a talking point for Capitol Hill during the recent May Midyear meetings. NJAR® would like to thank all of the NJ REALTORS® who attended the Hill visits and discussed the importance of reasonable approaches and incentives when dealing with energy efficiency and not imposing individual building mandates at the time of sale."

8:12am • #7

This has been circulating on the Rain for months.  It has garnered quite a bit of debate, but you are correct in the assumption that it certainly won't help us move in the right direction to bolster the real estate market.  I would have to suggest that organization is the way to go.  Petition the NAR to oppose it. 

8:14am • #8
591,815 Points 80 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Most real estate agents do no thave a clue on what is contained in this bull or most bills.  They just do not get it.

8:42am • #9
1 Featured Post

Wow, Norm, I had no idea what this bill entailed! Thank you for enlightening us!

9:12am • #10
247,488 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jim Crawford -

Was your "bull" reference intentional or a Freudian slip?  LOL  (Either way, I LOVE IT!)

9:20am • #11
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Norm, thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Eric, thanks for clarifying for us.

9:29am • #12
Outside Blog

Very informative blog post. Thanks for the information. I am sure it will be useful to me down the road.

9:43am • #13
147,669 Points 4 Featured Posts

Should we be fighting the bill, or making it better. As one who worked for the Senate many years ago, bills by the time they are finished do not resemble what started out. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. This is what has caused gridlock in Washington for years. Write your  represenative on the specifics. They need you to get re-elected which is their top priority.

9:47am • #14

Norm,

We here in New Mexico saw the problems with the bill at the beginning of the year and raised our concerns to NAR.  NAR had already taken the position to support the bill and had lobbied to have all members of Congress to support it prior to notifying them.  Our members of Congress did vote in favor of the bill and then were astounded when they saw the potential problems.  As one of our Congressmen told one of his Realtor constituent "You guys dropped the ball on this one".

9:52am • #15

Norm,

We here in New Mexico saw the problems with the bill at the beginning of the year and raised our concerns to NAR.  NAR had already taken the position to support the bill and had lobbied to have all members of Congress to support it prior to notifying them.  Our members of Congress did vote in favor of the bill and then were astounded when they saw the potential problems.  As one of our Congressmen told one of his Realtor constituent "You guys dropped the ball on this one".

9:52am • #16
102,390 Points Outside Blog

Norm,

 

Thanks for the heads up.

I build zero energy homes.  Great concept.  To force existing homes into this program is extremely detrimental to home owners everywhere in economic terms.  Upgrade to comply voluntarily?  Sure.  Your choice.  Force compliance and the vast majority of home owners are screwed.

This congress is taking its lead from Europe and they're having a real tough go of it. 

Regardless of the objectives of the bill, it is antithetic to our basic rights as free American citizens. 

HMMMM, let's see, where has this administration left any part of an individual's private life alone?

Finances?  No

Employment: No

Energy usage: No

Lifestyle: No

Religion: No

Property rights: No

The food we eat: No

Housing: No

Vehicles we drive: No

Freedom of speech: No

Freedom of thought: No

Freedom of association: No

Medical treatment: No

This country has become an oligarchy with democratic window dressing.  And the sheeple, by and large, think its grand. 

Brave new world we live in, isn't it?

 

9:54am • #17

Yet another bill that is not read by those who have the power to pass it.  It is tough for homeowners as it is today . They can barely afford to stay in their homes, soon, they will not be able to afford to sell them if this goes any further.

Sandy Souilliard
9:57am • #18

Like many well-intentioned efforts (?), there are numerous ramifications to this bill. If enacted, who is to enforce, and where in the midst of this economy, will that money come from? What, if any real tax credits will be offered? The only good think is that our government is often so dysfunctional that the final bill, after the Senate and the House (if the Senate even passes it) meet in Conference, will only vaguely resemble this bill. We each pay a fortune to our local and nation associations-- isn't this the type of issue they are supposed to be closely monitoring and protecting our industry?

10:04am • #19

We are bound up enough just with economic backlash from our previous mistakes.  Add something like this to an economy full of upside down sellers and you (everyone here) is right.  How we anyone ever sell their house.  Any equity will go out the window to energy efficient repairs.

10:16am • #20
1 Featured Post

It's a sorry state of affairs that citizens have to keep a close eye on proposed bills because the legislators in Washington can't be trusted to look out for the long-term good of the country or the people and don't seem to have much common sense.

10:26am • #21
640,493 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

For those of you wondering where NAR was on this one- well, they are sell outs and just want to play politics too. What they do is say, you give me this and I won't fight you on that. They call it compromise. But how do you compromise with personal property rights? This bill is made to make certain people rich at our expense. This bill is bad in so many ways but let's just take real estate for one. The constitution gives us property rights but there have been many presidents who don't believe that we should have property rights. I am sick of all these groups NAR being one of them, they take our dues and then they do what they want to do, not what the members want.

Take the AARP for instance, another group that cares more about their own pockets than that of their members. When the health care bill passes, the gov't will get rid of supplemental medicare insurance. Now, the members came unglued at this but AARP still supported the bill. WHY, you always need to ask who is this going to benefit. Without supplemental insurance from medicare the seniors will have to buy GAP insurance. Who is the biggest seller of GAP insurance? AARP! Hmmm, that is a no brainer but yet people can not see this.

Who is going to benefit from the cap and trade bill in regards to retrofitting houses? Hmmmm, GE? Who is on the gov't conflict of interest panel? GE! Who owns media outlets? GE!

And who is going to suffer the most with this new cap and trade- the entire real estate industy of Kentucky and Indiana as well as many other states. It is anticipated that at least 7 million jobs are going to be lost- but don't worry- the bill is going to create about 250,000 jobs. So there will only be 6,750,000 million jobs really lost. This goes beyond real estate- entire cities who have low income people will suffer the most, the poor will suffer the most with the higher energy bills. It won't affect the hollywood types that promote this, they can still pay their bills. It is going to affect the poor among us and the middle class will become the new poor. I have personally spoken with many, many of the people in Kentucky and other areas. It is not like they are living high off the hog right now. The rest of us may have to forgo our vacations in order to pay the outragious energy bills or just learn to get rid of our quality of life and not use the AC down here in Florida! But for many people, especially in the coal sectors- we have no idea of the devestation that this bill will inflict upon them.

Who is going to benefit the most from Cap and trade and who stands to lose the most from it not passing, certainly not the earth which has been around for years and years, (man is just too arrogant.) Hmmm, AL GORE! Al Gore will become the first GREEN BILLIONAIRE. This has nothing to do with capitalism for if it were capitalism, he would not make it to billionaire status! He could not handle the competition- no- he has to levy this in form of mandates. Force the people to make him a billionaire. And all the people say to that is, oh, that is ok, at least we are saving the planet in the meantime. This has to be one of the best scams ever perpetrated on the world population. Fascism is the merger of big corporations and the government. Katerina

10:29am • #22
1 Featured Post

Thanks to everyone for your responses and additions. I certainly can't make any claim to being some really well informed person on all fo this. If it were not for one of my past clients bringing it to my attention and asking me why we Realtors are fighting this, I'd have remained fat, dumb and happy about it. Now I guess I'll just have to settle for fat, not quite as dumb and not happy at all about what a bill like this could do to us all, if it ever becomes law.

As I stated in my original post, I too am confident that the Senate, in it's more deliberate style, will see the issues with much of what is in the bill and perhaps add some sanity to the process.

It is dissapointing that the NAR stance on the bill was to support it. One of the things that I find oneroous about the various groups that we are forced or encourages to join, at all levels, is the PAC activity and the non-transparent process for deciding what things (and sometimes who) to support or oppose. There are things that seem like no-brainers, such as supporting the extension fo the first-time buyer tax credit, and then there are things upon which apparently no brains were used, such as supporting this bill.

10:54am • #23
160,927 Points 10 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

You see, now THIS is one of those areas where market forces will work eventually and we don't need to do that much.  I'm a BIG environmentalist type and I am also nt against regulation, but this is an issue that will take care of itself. 

Maybe I am sanguine because NY has the highest energy costs almost ANYWHERE in the US.  But a nasty high energy bill will get people to retrofit their homes BEFORE they even think of selling which is even better for the environment.  Look...energy costs are headed up - that isn't changing.  The population here resisted change for years. They wanted the dimers on their incandescent lights. They didn't want to change out their old system when it would take 10 years to break even.  Well Con Ed (our energy provider)  is curing that in a hurry.  People with small homes are getting energy bills that would knock your socks off.  $600 a month for a small 1600 s.f. home is not unsusal (gas and electric.)  This is the norm in the heat of summer and cold of winter. I personally wrap myself in blankets for a couple of months a year because I won't turn the heat on until it is absolutely essential.  In summer, I delay putting on the AC as long as I can, but the humidity  usually forces me to give in generally by early June.  I shut the system down in mid Sept unless its above 85. The result is that I am "getting away" without using heat or AC about 3 -3.5 months/yr - or a little more than 1/4 the year.  Are we paying up to be more energy efficient?  Are we changing out the lights and forgoing the dimmers? UM YEAH!  A few socks to the wallet like that and almost anyone will change their ways. Make no mistake, the issue will eventually have to be forced.  People won't change unless they experience pain.  But this is where the market can work wonders - no legislation required here.

10:54am • #24
5 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

So basically, from reading the ACTUAL bill, I see nowhere where this bill REQUIRES energy efficiency upgrades in order to sell a home or other property. I does require compliance to receive government grants, loans, etc., but otherwise does not require any such things... in fact in each section there is language to the effect that the bill should not be construed to imply any such required compliance, except fior grants, credits, etc.

 

So, if you do not want to comply, you need not do so, but if you want to receive grant money, tax credits, loans, or other government sponsored Green Incentives, you will need to comply...

 

Why all the hubub for this? Sounds completely reasonable to me.

11:20am • #25
251,824 Points 2 Featured Posts Hit Router

Not having read it, I know how easy it is for people to take strong stances based on people's opinions, news shows, blogs, etc., but the devil is in the details and since I haven't read it, I don't know.  I can tell you that we are leaving future generations saddled with unreasonable debt and an environment that continues to degrade (whether manmade or not), and a global economy that will not be able to support even food production with 12 billion people over the next 75 years, so I am not happy with the mess that we are leaving future generations.  No one in power will stand up and do the right thing as all the special interests and even our own partisan nature would see to it's undoing.

I find the previous comment by Focus Professionals interesting, as he seems to be the only person who actually read the bill.

11:37am • #26

I think it's important that we do not overeact to this unless and until we actually read the bill.  Thank you to Eric for posting NAR's response to this. 

Rhonda Rowland
12:00pm • #29
Outside Blog

The bill does not require upgrades or energy audits. It does seek to help homeowners that want to make their homes more energy efficient. Might I suggest reading the actual bill, rather than the original post.

I focus my business on green and energy efficient homes and even I am not interested in requiring people to get an audit on their home to purchase.

But you can be sure that I am looking at the value to market more energy efficient homes, use Energy Efficient Mortgage and ENERGY STAR designation as a tool that will blow other homeowners with leaky costly homes out of the water!

Should REALTORs be fighting this bill? Only if they want to stick their heads in the sand and believe that better built homes, better energy efficiency, less dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and a cleaner environment aren't important.

Personally, I think they are important and I commend NAR for looking for a compromise that can both encourage energy efficiency while not hurting existing homebuyers and sellers.

 

12:16pm • #30

Congress needs to slooooow way down and stop trying to rush this stuff through. Read the bills and let the public read them before voting on them. Each state should be able to decide these type of issues, not the federal government pushing it on us.

12:18pm • #31

We definitely need to keep an eye on this.  The unintended consequences can be damaging to many industries.

12:23pm • #32
105,825 Points 1 Featured Post

This is another example of emails circulating trying to scare people with misinformation The following is a quote from Factcheck.org: (my bold)

"We've combed through the portion of the House-passed bill pertaining to residential buildings and found no point-of-sale mandates for owners of existing homes. Major trade groups representing home builders and real-estate brokers also say these claims are false.

Home Sellers Beware?

It's true that the bill sets new national efficiency standards for new residential and commercial buildings. It calls for buildings to be 30 percent more efficient by 2012, and 50 percent more efficient beginning in 2014. It ultimately calls for buildings to be 75 percent more efficient by 2029. But those efficiency benchmarks apply only to homes constructed after the bill becomes law, not currently existing ones.

We found no requirement for energy audits or energy-efficiency inspections in the bill, either. Nor did the National Association of Home Builders, according to Calli Barker Schmidt, the organization's director of environmental communications. "Inspections are usually required by banks and mortgage companies when a home changes hands - but if you are talking specifically about energy-efficiency checks, or an energy audit, it is not required for existing homes," she told FactCheck.org in an e-mail.

Owners of existing homes would be able to get energy audits if they wish, and if they volunteer for programs established by the bill, such as the Retrofit for Energy and Environmental Performance (REEP) program. That program would provide federal funds to states to encourage homeowners to reduce energy consumption. According to the bill, the purpose of REEP is to "facilitate the retrofitting of existing buildings across the United States to achieve maximum cost-effective energy efficiency improvements and significant improvements in water use and other environmental attributes." But facilitating energy efficiency improvements is not the same thing as requiring them."

That said- I DO agree that the number of pages in these bills is WAY out of control.

12:29pm • #33
Outside Blog

I hope this does not pass!  I am disappointed in our government right now! 

12:29pm • #34
Outside Blog

As usual the devil is in the details. There is no doubt that government needs to be regulatory agency, when appropriate, but I believe the government is becoming far to intrusive in our daily lives. It would probably be a good thing if politicians behaved more like public servants as originally intended, not as life long professional politicians. Life long professional politicians seem to lose touch with what life is really like for your average American.

12:57pm • #35

Good intentions produce some very silly methods of accountability.

2:21pm • #36
Outside Blog

Where do they come up with this stuff? Yes we need to keep our eye on it. As if we weren't busy enough working through the mess we have now.

5:49pm • #37

I am not going to delve into the Cap and Trade bill, because there is still a lot of work to be done on it.  As I was reading the posts on this though, it struck me to wonder how many of the people railing against this are FOR an extension of the tax credit.  People all up in arms about the government trying to put things in place for the future, are also up in arms about keeping the tax credit...if ya'll do not see the irony in that...then I have nothing more to say.  Kind of like 'stay away from my medicare for your socialized medicine.'  So many in this industry are so conservative, until it gets to their pocketbooks...seems hypocritical to me.

 

PS~ Man made global warming is not up for debate, it is happening, open up Google and search for it.......www.google.com.

6:51pm • #38
577,065 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

The real estate provisions aren't as onerous as some seem to imply...  However, we can certainly see the direction that some in DC want to take us. 

However, the Cap & Trade bill in general is not only onerous, but stupid.  It will not reduce greenhouse gases one bit... only push jobs overseas to places that DON'T have these stupid taxes. 

And Anthropogenic Global Warming is a myth...  Check it out... use Google.com.

7:43pm • #39
Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

EVERYTHING congress does everyday should be posted to the internet, daily. What is voted up or down, by name and bill number, and who voted Yay or Nay by name, after all how can you be represented if you don't know how or if your Representive votes and on what, in Your name. This is not the 1700's, nobody has to get on a horse, Google can feed it faster than they can write it.

I have not read the Cap and Trade bill, but will tonight. I agree with Jake about the tax credit. 

 

7:52pm • #40
580,766 Points 62 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Norm, some cities like Austin are already requiring these energy audits. Ridiculous!

7:52pm • #41

Ann, everything congress does IS posted on the internet daily.  Also, you can see them every single day live on C-Span.  If you watch for more than an hour and don't fall asleep, you are ahead of the game.  It's pretty boring and they don't move very swiftly on anything, but that's the nature of our government.

9:38pm • #42
346,768 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

"Brave New World" and "Big Brother."  They sneak up when the gate keepers aren't watching.

 

I'd like to hope the bill is too over reaching to pass, but we'll see.

11:39pm • #43
OCT
27
4 Featured Posts

Certainly amazing how the current Federal Government wishes to emulate failed polices from the likes of states like California and countries such as Spain...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/06/25/tilting_at_green_windmills_97168.html

My experience... when somebody knows they are going BK... they go on a spending spree to put the nail in the coffin.

In the past...Governments such as Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Zimbabwe and Germany seized private assets when the crap hit the fan...

Never waste a Crisis....

Hmmm...

1:29am • #44
OCT
29

I don't believe for 1 second this bill is well intentioned! Since Jan. 2009, all of the proposed legislation coincidentally, (LOL) is full of govt. controls over us serfs.

5:02pm • #45

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Norm Werner

Milford, MI

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