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ARE Local Association Members Being Scammed with Phony Health Insurance Deals?

I have been one of the uninsured that seems to have congress in an uproar, for about 3 years now. Before the Government starts making plans for me, I thought it best that I establish my own baseline of heath care and go back to Kaiser, who has been my family's primary medical provider, for as long as I can remember.

I received several emails this month, telling me about an "OPEN ENROLLMENT" period for Kaiser, that would expire on October 31st. Being the procrastinator that I am, the decision to look into this had been put off since the early part of the month.

A couple of days ago, I got serious, after reading one more warning from "THE BENEFIT STORE". So, I followed the lead in the email and visited their site, providing some personal information before I could see the rates and different plans available. What I received is the following email, with 3 different PDF attachments of the Good, Better and Best plans available to me. To be honest, I was pretty blown away by the prices - but what did I know, I hadn't paid for health insurance premiums for several years, and now I'm even in an older age bracket - ouch.

Benefit Store Health Insurance Solicitation email

Before we go on, I want to point out that this is addressed to "ALL MEMBERS ADDRESSED" and that this if thanking me for my "Interest in Medical Programs for Local REALTOR® Association Members."

So, I looked at several of the programs. Penciled out the numbers as if I were going to have 10 office visits during the year and see what my total out of pocket would be, based on the numerous variables. Fortunately for me, I did this in my office and left the results on a yellow pad, on my desk.

I called the company and was told by a very busy sounding switchboard operator that someone would call me by 8:00 p.m. OK, I admit, I felt disapointed but determined now, to get some heath coverage before the window was shut tight for another year.

Well, I got the call around 6:30...just as my wife and I were sitting down to dinner. I asked him to call back in a half hour. So, 90 minutes later he calls. I told him I was no longer in the mood to talk business that I was unwinding and relaxing with my family and asked if he could call me in the morning.

Turns out that our telemarketer friend doesn't come to work until 6:00 p.m. and he asked if it would be OK if his boss called. I agreed. Fortunately, I did not take the call when it came in as I was busy tending to my real estate business.

I had some down-time later in the afternoon and thought I would check it out a little further, before returning the call and signing up. First, I went to the NAR website only to find that NAR does not offer any group medical insurance. OK, I admit I was confused, so I quickly checked the CAR site, looking up the member benefits and still did not see any reference to an open enrollment with Kaiser or any other health insurance provider, either.

Time to pull out the email and start reading between the lines. Hmmmmmmm

So, once again I look closely at the attachments and study 2 or 3 plans that I had narrowed down the results to include.

BenefitStore.Com Best Value Co-Pay Plan

I quickly re-figured the numbers and just did not feel good about what I saw. A plan without a deductible and a $20 co-pay would have cost me $648.96 a month, as a 55 year old male.

Kaiser Rate Quote

At this point, I decided to visit the Kaiser website at www.KP.Org.

Answered just a few questions and nothing more detailed than my date of birth...without even giving my name. And then, viola I had a simple to understand list of numerous plans for me to select from...none of which were identical to the Benefit Store plans. The good news is they were all a lot cheaper!

The most similar plan that Kaiser offered me, directly was for a $25 co-pay and no deductible for only $462.00 per month...MY GOSH, THAT'S A DIFFERENCE OF $186.96 PER MONTH....I CAN'T BELIEVE IT - IT'S $2,243.52 A YEAR HIGHER FOR NEARLY IDENTICAL INSURANCE - USING THE EXACT SAME PROVIDER. Looking at the fine print, it appears as if every other line item in the benefit coverage was identical.

So, I for one think this is a phony offer. They may have a legal license to sell this policy and it may be 100% legal...I don't know, but I believe in my heart that this is a phony offer and even borderline fraud as every insinuation is that as a member of my local REALTOR Association I am eligible for this benefit. What I find humorous is no where do they use the term benefit except in the name of their company.

REALTORS - please be careful...it's bad enough we have to worry about bad guys laying in wait at vacant homes wanting to do us harm...there are bad guys out there lurking in your email box, too. Had they been able to connect me to an agent yesterday afternoon, I would have gone down for the count and been done with it...feeling good that I was once again insured. Well Guess What, just over 24 hours later and I do feel good - because I am insured and $2,243.52 richer...heck, that's like selling one more home!

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UPDATE: PLEASE RED COMMENT 53 AND MY RESPONSE WHICH FOLLOWS

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Until Next Time, Have a Blessed Day,

John Occhi, ePRO & Five Star Certified REO REALTOR®
www.JohnOcchi.Com
Hemet - San Jacinto Valley, CA
The Excellence in Real Estate Team @
Allison James Estates & Homes
2281 W. Esplande Ave, #102-B
Next to "Starbucks"
San Jacinto CA 92582
(951) 654-5550

This blog and the contents written here is the intellectual property of John Occhi, Hemet - San Jacinto Valley REALTOR® in the South West Riverside County region of the Inland Empire of Southern California. The views and opinions expressed are just that - views and opinions of John Occhi and those who comment. Please note that I am not an attorney or a tax professional and any time I discuss either topic, I suggest you consult with the proper professional for relevant assistance.

This blog is part of the ActiveRain Real Estate Network, which is a social network highlighting the best of Web 2.0. Information is provided with the intent of educating and assisting home owners, home sellers, home buyers and real estate investors with information the can be used to make better real estate decisions.

I am proud to be a full time REALTOR® who is proud to be a contributing member of the ActiveRain community.

Posted by John Occhi, ePRO, Hemet-San Jacinto CA Real Estate, 951-443-6259 on 10/28/2009 07:21 PM

Comments (75)

Health Insurance Scams in the Networking Channel

kaiser, nar, realtor, benefit, health insurance, family, scam

Originally posted at: John Occhi's Blog: ARE Local Association Members Being Scammed with Phony Health Insurance Deals?

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75 Comments on ARE Local Association Members Being Scammed with Phony Health Insurance Deals?

OCT

It pays to do your homework especially with your insurance coverage.

John:

Yes, on has to read and re-read the fine print. The scammer are out there. One would become suspect if you needed to talk to them after 6:00 PM.

If the NAR had pushed harder on its group health rates for self employed people instead of throwing it overboard, maybe there would be no need for scams here.

It's like all things in life John. There are always the good the bad and the ugly. It's just sometimes hard to tell them all apart.

I think they are higher too. Checked it out in my area, a few years ago.

Better rates going through the Chamber of commerce.

I feel your pain. I cancelled my insurance carrier 6 months ago. I'd had the same company for 12 years, but they never paid one claim, charged $500 per month, and did not cover any of my son's medication or treatment. I felt like I was throwing good money after bad. Guess Obama is going to make sure I get right back on the treadmill. I'll be shopping soon myself.

The whole insurance business is largely a scam here but by business people, in Europe and Canada it's the same scam but by the government. Go figure. When somebody tells me that they want $500 per month for something I just tell them to sod off even if it's something I need.

Insurance companies = throwing money into the wind.

John - I'm glad you did your homework. Always good to read the fine print.

OCT

A good rule of thumb is not to go for any offers that are sent TO you -- if in the market, go and research the items yourself and make decisions -- there are scams that are coming in for health care and all sorts of other things as well-- do ones own research and do not jump on anything that comes as a solicitation. Our 2 cents.

This certainly gives me something to think about. Thank you.

Shopping for health insurance is so complicated in the USA. In Canada, we only need to worry about shopping for outside of Canada coverage, outside of province top-up coverage, and extended health plans (if you are not covered by your employer) that provide coverage above our government plan.

John, Thanks for shedding light on this topic and doing the leg work. We all get loads of these flyers and emails.

If it looks to be too good to be true...well you know the rest. I am enrolled in my state Realtor Blue Cross plan, and we are in a similar age bracket. My plan with a $5000 deductible to start is $453 a month, and believe me that is a really good plan. Condsidering that they paid over $500,000 for my cancer treatment last year, you might start thinking about what the cost of staying alive is.

I hear ya! Thanks for the head's up! You have to read between the lines on anything healthcare related. I cancelled my insurance policy with BCBS last year after having surgery and not getting one penny of help from them after paying in on my policy with no claims for ten years. I would rather go it alone and take my chances.

I feel your pain, fellow uninsured friend. I've looked in to insurance plans that claim to have a relationship with NAR...what they really mean is they paid to advertise in the Realtor magazine. There is no group insurance for Realtors on a national level or state level (at least not in NC). They also gave me the "someone will call you back" routine. Now when I actually spoke to someone, the rates weren't horrible but, of course, you aren't allowed to actually go to a doctor. Well, you can go, but they will only cover a few visits a year. Wow, so the rest is out of pocket and at that point, you technically have insurance (even though they won't cover anything) so you no longer even qualify for the cash discount at the doctor's office. So you pay several hundred a month, pay a couple of co-pays, and then all other medical expenses are 100% out of pocket, while you are still paying the several hundred a month. Yeah, I think I will pass....

Insurance is a big problem, but a problem best left to the private sector. I am in great health and pay about $2500 per year. Not cheap but I think it is still better than letting the goverment handle anything for me.....the wait at my local Division of Motor Vehicles is about 3 hours.

I sure hope it gets better for health insurance soon. I, too, am uninsured, and I'm worried! I thank God everyday for keeping me and my family healthy.

Ah health insurance. The nemesis of the self-employed American. I have to pay nearly $370/month and I am 35. Glad you did not follow your first option. Sounds like you found it for a lot less - insurance people will try and get everything they can out of you... Glad you didn't get scammed!

Charles (1)

Yes, an ounce of prevention was definatel;y wotrh the pound of the cure in this case.

John

Bob, (2)

You're right we must read the fine print and yes the scammers do their best work in the evening, calling you at home, don't they...

John

Dan, (#3)

I am actually surprised that Group Health is not a benefit - it seems such a basic benefit to offer - almost a no brainer...

John

Bob,

You're right and I was introduced to the UGLY - no doubt.

John

Missy, (5)

Didn't think of the Chamber...I bprbably have membership somewhere else with a 'preferred' rate...but going direct seemed to work for me...I saved over $2200!

JOhn

Lisa (6),

Sure doesn't seem right...but then again, that may be why Insurance is the BIGGEST BUSINESS in the WORLD!

John

(7)

Not sure I agree with you...I have benefited numerous time with Insurance...I know my wife would not be aliove today if she did not receive the care provided by the Insurance company (yeah Kaiser)

John

Heather, (8)

Just like my commenht in 7 above - I do believe they have their place. Kink of like a cop, glad they are there when you need them.

This post is NOT about Insurance bashing - but about the scam artists out there trying to take advantage. They remind me of the Toner companies who call on businesses...unsuspecting and charge a fortune for an inferior product.

John

Megan, (9)

Homework is a good thing. They count on us doing what they think is easy...and sometimes it is just easier to be easy.

John

Bob (10)

I agree that we should research - but to say not to go with the solicitation is a tough rule...heck most of us reading this solicit for business every day...we just have to be careful, is all

John

Kyle, (11),

Glad I got you thinking. Health Insurance is such an issue these days and I have gone long enough without. Fortunatly, I havn't needed it...but at 55, you never know. Time for my colonscopy...(oh boy)

John

Marc, (12)

Don't want to sound anti-Canadian here...but you can keep your simple system and ALLOW me to make my decisions. I believe the Socialist system being crammed down our throats here is a bad thing and VERY UN-AMERICAN.

Again, this is not a health care debate but an article warning others of SCAMMERS.

John

Chain (13)

I know there are so many solicitations we all receive in our email boxes and snail mail boxes too. It just really bugs me that predators are out there walking the fine line implying they are somehow affiliated with REALTORS - when they are sdcamming us every chance they get!

John

Joe (14),

God Bless and glad to hear you are still with us. Yes, I do understand the cost of staying alive - my wife has been fighting cancer for 13 years now. Currently in Stage 4 and on Hospice care...but still fighting only because of her Kaiser HMO Insurance.

John

Jeani (15 & 16)

Caution Jeanie, there are good policies and bad ones. The one the scammers wanted to sell me is a great policy...only the wanted $186 more than Kaiser would sell it to me for, directly. Again, I caution that life does happen and that includes disease and accidents that come straight from left field and unless you are independently wealthy, being sick is very expensive.

John

Marisa, (17)

It just seems like we should be able to stop these guys from gaining access to our REALTOR records... I actually feel violated.

John

Dawn,

Thanks for the empathy...and yes there are bad policies. But hhaving adequate insurance really is a God Send if you ever need it...and most of us do need it eventually. Look at everyone you know that is 20+ years older than you and ask them how many times a year they go to a doctor. Ask about their insurance...or lack of it.

The problem is when we are younger, we think we are going to live forever. Just ask any teenager. See my comments above (#36).

John

Damon (19)

I agree - I'd much rather pay than allow the government to run my life. DMV is a perfect example of a government run entity...

John

Tammy (20)

God is good...but having Insurance is a good thing too.

John

Emily (21) ,

Thanks ...

John

OCT

Great topic, John!! My insurance was increased (for the 2nd time THIS YEAR)...been with the same carrier for 3 years (keep changing carriers because their rates keep skyrocketing....and this is with NO CLAIMS IN THE PAST 8 YEARS...and just a small one...$12,000...prior to that....since I had babies 30+ years ago! In February of this year, I was paying 430, just for me, with a 2500 deductible, and where I would need to pay the first 20% of the first $10,000 of COVERED expenses in any year (sounds more like a $4500 deductible to me!). In march my rate jumped to $567 per month, and this October they were increasing me AGAIN to $740!!! When I hear claims of 20-30% increases in the past 5 years I want to choke! It's more like a 70% increase in less than 1 year!!!

I cancelled my coverage!

John, then there is the other side... I have been on COBRA after loosing my job 18 months ago. Times up! Yep after this month I will be on my own. By the way COBRA coverage for my family was nearly $1600 per month with a $2000 deductible for each person. I know the value of the insurance as I had a triple bypass this Spring and did not wake up for 10 days. After watching the insurance company refuse to pay some bills it makes me sick to need insurance but I am a high risk patient. After trying 5 times, I am uninsurable. BTW I still do not want a public option, just the right to obtain insurance.

so what's not a scam in the USA today?

the foxes are running the henhouses in every industry I can think of.

It pays to do your homework...

Judi, (42)

Yours is a scarey story, no doubt...but you have to find some sort of alternative because at some point you will need it and you don't want to be relying on the Government to telly you what you can and can't treat.

John

John (43),

First, I'm glad to hear that you are doing better and that you respect the value that insurance brings to the table. I am, by no means, an expert on insurance policies - but I do agree what we need is the right to obtain coverage - not a government mandated program and not a program that rewards unwed parents to continue to produce babies, either.

God Bless,

John

Tim, (44)

Sounds like you are a half empty kind of guy...and I respect that (I too have those tendencies).

However...I AM NOT A SCAM...ARE YOU? So there is still a lot of GREAT AMERICANS who do their best to serve others everydy.

John

Ben,

Yes, homework is good. It is definately not to take offers and opportunities at face value.

John

All that is left to most of us independent contractors is catastrophic coverage. It is still vaguely reasonable. But if we get government health care that option is off the table.

Sorry, got so involved in your post, I forgot to log in. #50 is from us.

Gary & Shannon (50 & 51)

Thanks for coming back by, after signing in and having your voice heard. Not sure who is listening, but we are making some noise here.

I agree one of the big issues for 'independent' or self employed business people is the lack of viable insurance coverage and I believe that government intervention will make us all the equivalent of welfare recipients. The only difference is those on welfare have the ability to improve their lives and get out of the system and off the programs. Once the government steps in and takes over then there will be no out. There won't be an option to improve your position in life.

I really did not want to mke this blog about the health care chrises but more about a warning by a company that is (in my opinion) on a very narrow line dangerously close to committing fraud.

Take care,

John

John, CAR does offer group health insurance. Click on MEMBERS on the front page, right side, then MEMBER BENEFITS, then continue to drill down to the group plans. When I did the comparison last year, I found I would save about $50-$100 a month if I switched from my current insurance to the group plan, but I haven't yet decided to do that. We are about the same age.

BTW, the current bill being sent to the House does NOT require a "government mandated" insurance plan. It will offer a public option to those who can't afford regular coverage or don't like the plan they have now. As far as I'm concerned, the more options I have, the better.

John- Just wait to see how prices increase each year now that you are over 55. I had Blue Cross through RITA and each year on my birthday my insurance went up $150.00. When I reached $850 per mo with no claims I said enough. I finally went with a Kaiser HSA plan but miss my primary physican.

Sad commentary on our society whose priorities are way out of line. This is a tragedy. The large health insurance companies are getting richer and some Americans are losing their homes, and their lives. Seems like a major conflict of interest when we are one of the richest countries on earth, but yet don't have a heath care plan to take care of our citizens...oh yeah, almost forgot.... the ones that can afford it can stay healthy..... When will we say enough?

Sonsie, (53)

Thank you for the lead to the CAR Benefit. I meediately went a took a look at what was offered there - not sure how I cold have missed it the first time.

However, let me point out, that except for the fact that there is guaranteed acceptance in the group, this policy is STILL more expensive for me to take the Kaiser Option with CAR than it is for me to enroll with Kaiser directly...and be covered 45 days sooner.

CAR - Kaiser Rate Sheet

So you can see by comparing the Rate Sheet from the State Association (CAR) to have an equivalent payment, I would have to go with the $50 co-pay instead of the $25 that Kaiser offers me. Unfortunately I can't compare Apples to Apples, as this rate sheet offers a $20 & a $30 Co-Pay, whereas Kaiser offers a $25 - which is where I am leaning.

Again, Sonsie, Thanks for the informaiton, but it really does pay to do your homework as I am learning...

Kaye, (54)

Thanks, but according to the plan sheets that I see, I should be at the same rate level for 5 years...yes, there will be increase across the board, but not aimes specifically at me.

John

Deborah, (55)

THis is a whole other topic which I have really tried to stay away from - the sad commentary is that we have people out there trying to rip us off under the cover of being a benefit... That is sad

John

I will have to take a close look at things and maybe see if we can get signed up directly. I was rejected for non-group coverage a few years ago. I have no serious health issues.

Hi John,

Yesterday I received an email stating NAR is pleased to introduce REALTORS® Core Health Insurance (RCHI). RCHI offers affordable, guaranteed-acceptance, Limited Medical insurance plans exclusively for NAR members aged 18-65

It is also listed on NAR's websute. The rates don't vary according to age bracket or pre-existing conditions, just have to be in the 18-65. There are 3 options to choose from which vary in price. It is a very affordable limited medical plan. I also checked and saw plenty of doctors in my area accept this plan.

Check it out at the realtor.org website!

Karen Burns

I wanted to add to my comment above that quotes per month for my husband and me were $136, $205, or $336.

I agree with Karen, John. I thought NAR had a health insurance plan. Seems they sent or e mailed me information on it. Yes, there are a lot of scammers that are fast talkers our there. Lucky for me, the Veterans Administration is my health care provider.

Boulder City Steve

Thanks for taking the time to share this with your fellow realtors. It can be scary out there.

Thanks for the heads up, John. It's kind of like finding an airfair on Travelocity, and then going directly to the airline and finding it cheaper there.

OCT

Good reading. I have had calls, emails & faxes from several health insurance companies out of the wazoo lately. I think it started when I was looking into different websites & exploring. Once your email address is captured, the flood gate is opened. John is right, you do have to read the fine lines and in between the lines. Some of the health care programs are not necessarily insurance coverage, but are plans over & above an actual insurance policy. Read, read, read and then read again.

Courtney Peace Hagins ABR CDPE RE/MAX Island Realty Hilton Head Island, SC

Gene (59),

Good luck - wonder why you were rejected? If you can't go direct, find a good local agent in town who wants to earn your business and will find a poplicy for you.

John

Karen (60 & 61)

I saw that and considered adding that info to this article but I decided I did not want to over-complicate the message I was trying to put across; and that is that there are scam artists misrepresenting their relationships who are looking to take advantage of us.

As far as the Core Policy is good, in my opinion, if you carry a high deductable and allow the CORE to supplement your basic policy. As far as HMO (which is what Kaiser is) I don't see the need. I did speak with a rep on the phone and she made a good case why it is good to have, but I'll pay for the better policy and keep it simple with just one payment and one policy - with Kaiser, there are no claim forms and not sure how that would work out having Kaiser sign off on claim forms with every visist.

Thanks for sharing for those who have not yet heard of this policy.

John

Steve,

I too am eligible for VA coverage. I thought I heard they cut the benefit way back for those without a service connected disability or injury. Besides, the VA is a long way from my rural town, and that too is an issue.

John

Marian, (63)

You are more than welcome. Scarier even than tonights Haloween festivities? YOu bet.

John

DeeDee (64)

Well I guess Travelocity is luckey because I don't do a lot of traveling...but if I did and I found issues like that you can bet I'd be mad. Not sure what I would be able to do except document every negative occurance.

John

Courtney (65)

Thanks for those good points

John

John, Thank you for sharing this. I too looked into this program scam and found the same thing. Kaiser for an individual plan was a GREAT DEAL cheaper than quoted on this solicitation. It is always a good idea to research prior to buying anything of this nature.

Stephanie,

Thank you for driving home my point. Just leike we tell our clients, we have to do our own due dilligence.

John

NOV

On top of everything else I have to be a health insurance expert as well?

NOV

I need to be out there looking myself. Someone made the point above where being the richest nation on the planet and people are dying all around us because they Can't afford insurance.

Does anyone wonder if the board is getting a commission or cut on this? That's possibly the higher premium? Wouldn't put it past them.

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