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Idea for 2010 Home Owner Tax Credit - Bail yourself out!

By
Real Estate Agent with Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info DB-17066

One thing is becoming increasingly clear to me - the American consumer is finally getting worried about the amount of this countries debt.  They are thinking about our ability to pay it back and realizing that the repayment will eventually come from us, the taxpayer!

Piggy bank

My proposal is to extend the First Time Homebuyer Tax Credit and expand it for upper end buyers too since that market appears to need a lot more help than the first time homebuyers!  Wait, didn't I just say that we were adding too much debt and now I am proposing adding even more?  Yahbut!

Yeah, but, I propose making this credit a silent second on your mortgage so that the person directly benefiting from the tax credit has to eventually pay it back themselves!  I would prefer that the interest acrue at a below market rate but not be due and payable until the home is resold, but would agree to a no interest loan since the additional impact on our economy would offset the interest and still provide an economic stimulous.  I believe NAR's economists stated that the economic impact of the $8,000 tax credit was $65,000!

I recognize that there will be some default on the seconds; however isn't a 1% payoff even better than the 0% today?

I am not sure why so many people believe our government has to give stuff away for free (i.e. swine flu vacines).  If they are turning people away since supply does not exceed demand, generally private enterprise raises the price, they don't keep giving stuff away!  Why not give away the vouchers for the shot to the people that could justify spending 8 hours in line and allow them to sell it to the highest bidder on Ebay as a way of creating additional income for the homeless and underemployed willing to stand in line?

Out of money

At some point we have to recognize that we have to stop feeding the pig.  We need to realize that when the piggy bank breaks, maybe we will need to consider making bacon, ham and hot dogs to feed our population instead of just printing more money and giving it out as quick as Bernie Madoff can take it!

 

Marney Kirk
Cummings & Co. Realtors - Towson, MD
Towson, Maryland Real Estate

Jim, interesting idea...though I doubt it would go over well...

Oct 29, 2009 11:24 AM
Gregory Bain
Mezzina Real Estate & Insurance - Little Egg Harbor, NJ
For Homes on the Jersey Shore

Interesting? Yes. I don't agree to any of it. Let the tax credit die. It never worked - in my sphere of influence. No one should be buying a house to get a $8000 tax credit. No one should be rewarded to get rid of a clunker that they would most likely be buying a new car anyway. The FHA standard of 3.5% down and limited help in closing costs should be the industry standard. And, the banks that got the bail out money should back those loans - not Freddie and Fannie. Banks should be "required" to loan the money at no more than double the interest rate they pay the government to borrow it. Bail out = 0% times that by 2. Our government should never give away our money. It should be "loaned" to them at a small interest rate based on their ability to pay it back. But, then that's just my HUMBLE opinion. 

Oct 29, 2009 12:36 PM
Joyce Thomas
The Thomas Group Brokered by eXp Realty - San Tan Valley, AZ
Your Home Sold Guaranteed!

Interesting thought and comments.

Oct 29, 2009 12:44 PM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

I appreciate the differences of opinion here. It makes for a much better debate than "Nice post ... did I get 25 points?"

Housing has a huge impact on our economy, so we have to treat it carefully.  One of the many problems is that people expected to make 10-20% profit during the bubble and bought more than they could afford thinking this would help increase their leverage without understanding leverage is a double sided sword.

Almost every car owner that is making payments on a new car is upside down in that valuation as well, but I know for a fact that if the loan is paid as agreed over time whether it is on a car or a home a three year payback or a 30; the item being financed will ultimately be paid for and theirs!

I am not in favor of hand out programs, but I do like creative "hand ups".  When I see videos of communities bull dozing new homes under construction instead of donating them to organizations like Habitat For Humanity to finish, I know we need to help do more to be proactive in a solution!

Oct 29, 2009 12:54 PM
Christine Donovan
Donovan Blatt Realty - Costa Mesa, CA
Broker/Attorney 714-319-9751 DRE01267479 - Costa M
Limit debt and spending while providing stimulus ; ) What a novel idea. The credit worked pretty well last year even when it was a 15 year loan.
Oct 29, 2009 01:25 PM
Brian Schulman
Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage, Lancaster PA - Lancaster, PA
Lancaster County PA RealEstate Expert 717-951-5552

Jim, I don't think that's a bad idea - and I don't think it would be a bad idea to extend it to trade-up buyers as well.  As far as the 20,000,000 homeowners who are upside down on their mortgages: when the inevitable inflation catches up with our incredible government overspending, many of these homeowners won't be upside down any more (although the dollar itself won't be worth much by then)...

Oct 29, 2009 01:32 PM
Sybil Campbell
Fernandina Beach, FL
Referral Agent Amelia Island Florida

Jim,  

I agree with you about the higher end buyers.  FOr the past year, 95% or more our sales have been $350K and below.

Oct 29, 2009 01:36 PM
Mark Velasco
West Shores Realty - Whittier, CA
Top Producing Broker Associate

Great idea Jim. However it would never work because our people are now used to free money.

Oct 29, 2009 01:59 PM
Kerry Lucasse
eXp Realty - Urban Nest Real Estate Group - Atlanta, GA
Your Urban Nest Atlanta Real Estate Consultant

Good idea.  I also liked someone else's comment that it would be erased after 5 or 6 years (instead of three yrs) - that will give our markets time to stabilize.

Oct 29, 2009 03:48 PM
Delaware Junk Removal Residential And Commercial Hauling Clean Outs
Delaware Junk Removal 302-530-9186 - Wilmington, DE
Whole House Clean Outs, Basements, Garages, Attics

I like your idea but I thought most states have a plan that uses a 2nd mortgage?   I cant figure out WHY $8,000?  Why not 2 or 3?   How about a month of no mortgage payments?  8k is way too much imho.

Oct 29, 2009 04:16 PM
Chuck Carstensen
RE/MAX Results - Elk River, MN
Minnesota/Wisconsin Real Estate Expert

Interesting idea...at the very least I think there needs to be an extension for any buyer who is under contract now.  There are so many non customer related delays that its a shame if someone thinks there getting the credit and does not.

Oct 29, 2009 04:41 PM
Anonymous
Veronica Lawrence

Correct me if I am wrong but, those who bought properties when they knew it was a stretch for their pockets, got loans, got foreclosed on after they refinanced and took $$ out of properties contributed to the current economical situation.  If the w-2 wage earner can finally get a piece of the "american dream" within their budget and actually stay and pay their loan.......I say give them a chance

Maybe some of that bail out money could have gone elsewhere instead of to the banks

 

Oct 29, 2009 06:02 PM
#18
Lenn Harley
Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate - Leesburg, VA
Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland

Comparing automobiles to land with improvements is not applicable.  Cars wear out.  The land is always there.  The improvement is an improvement and has a long life. 

A car is a mechanical means of transportation.  A piece of land with an improvement is a HOME.  Cars have always depreciated from the minute they come off the factory line. 

Homes have almost always appreciated year after year along with the cost of living.  The dramatic drop in home values this time was politically caused and not normal. 

The home owners affected are pawns.

Oct 29, 2009 08:27 PM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

Larry, Great question - Why $8k?  I have never seen any documentation on how they came up with that number.   I will check with NAR to see what I can learn since I have talked to one of their economists that was key in getting it passed to start with.

Chuck, I agree that at a minimum an extension for those that may not get the credit if the fault is not theirs if the home was under contract by 45 days prior to the deadline.  I don't think it should work for someone going under contract November 15th, however since a 15 day escrow wouldn't have been realistic.

Lenn, I agree there is a huge difference between cars and homes and their depreciation vs appreciation.  The main point I was trying to make however was if there original loans were paid off as originally agreed to when they bought (not refinanced afterwards), their original purchase would still be paid off at the term of their loan.

Some people argue the problem is buyers didn't have enough down payment into a home; however VA foreclosures are typically in the lowest bracket of delinquent loans/foreclosures yet they are typically 100% financing!  That is because VA looks at the whole picture including the condition of the home, the buyers family size, residual income (additional debt service); then makes their decision.  Our military is typically more disciplined and comply better with obligations than the typical consumer.  Most military people I know are men and women of honor and stick to their words and see even difficult times through to the end.

I am suggesting that we just consider ways to make recipients of the bailout money be as accountable.

  • Maybe we can do the zero interest seconds to be paid back later up on sale or transfer;
  • Maybe we should consider shared equity participation loans so what ever the percentage from the government, they share in the same ratio of profit at the end;
  • Instead of just giving banks money, why not buy preferred stock with some rules attached so if they don't comply, get seized by the feds?;
  • Instead of just giving money for cash for clunkers to then destroy the trade ins, why not have a program to "donate" the trade ins to charitable non profit agencies if they agree to do donate additional time cleaning up or perfecting their communities based on having to donate hours at $10 per hour till they accumulate enough time to get the car?
In physics, they say "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".  Let's think of the pros and cons and the impact of our actions as we get ready to go into 2010!

Oct 30, 2009 01:45 AM
Kevin Lanham
Pacor Mortgage Corp - Oak Lawn, IL
Chicagoland FHA Expert

Jim - Great idea.  Too bad it will probably never lead anyway because it actually makes sense. Your other ideas in your comments are great too.  You are right in the fact that we have to be concerned about our actions. The money doesn't come from thin air.

Oct 30, 2009 04:15 AM
Emily Lowe
RE/MAX Homes and Estates, Lipman Group - Nashville, TN
Nashville TN Realtor

Nobody wants to be accountable anymore.  That concept seems to be foreign to the American people per the large majority.  I am afraid that by the time people really get a grasp on how much the taxpayers (the AMERICAN PEOPLE) owe, it will be too late.  Our government continues to spend wastefully and I don't see that changing either.  Good theory on your part!

Oct 30, 2009 04:28 AM
Damon Gettier
Damon Gettier & Associates, REALTORS- Roanoke Va Short Sale Expert - Roanoke, VA
Broker/Owner ABRM, GRI, CDPE

I think enough is enough.  Stop all of the government subsidies and let the market settle itself.

Oct 30, 2009 04:39 AM
France and Mark Clausen
Realty Austin - Dripping Springs, TX

I don't have the answer but I know that something has got to change. We are watching the disappearence of the middle class. It's the middle class that is continually saddled with paying for the government programs.

Oct 31, 2009 07:02 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

People that think Realtors are just self serving sales people should read this blog!  Quite a few people are not for tax credits which does support our sales and therefore us.  The problem with trying to forcast the market is that in economics there are two key principles:

  1. A stable market;
  2. Barring any outside government intervention (programs).
Thanks to all of you for your comments so far!  Good debate on a critical topic.

Oct 31, 2009 11:39 PM
Ella Glover
Lubbock Homes - Lubbock, TX

I am not a fan of Obama, but the tax credit has been a blessing in my business and for so many people.  Thanks

Nov 05, 2009 11:52 PM