Special offer

Money Merge Account vs. Equity Harvesting – The Truth

By
Mortgage and Lending with Logical Choice Lending, Inc.

I am writing this blog as a direct retort to the one posted by Robert Ashby titled:

Money Merge Accounts Vs Equity Harvesting: Harvesting Wins by Over $1.5M

I posted 2 responses to this blog and Mr. Ashby deleted the second.  Due to this I am now posting my own blog on this topic as I believe people have the right to the truth.  The Equity Harvesting strategy that is currently being advocated by many in the mortgage profession has multiple risks associated with it that the people promoting it are either selectively ignoring or are completely ignorant of.  I don't know which is worse.

In his blog Mr. Ashby advocates that his supposed "client" refinance their home every five years, extracting equity for the purposes of investment and then proceeds to assume that these people will achieve a rate of return on this money which is greater then that of the rate of interest they will have to pay for borrowing it.  He also assumes a 4% appreciation rate on the property itself.  He assumes he knows not only the future rate of appreciation on the property and the future rates of returns on these unspecified investment vehicles, but also the future rates of interest on subsequent loans that these "clients" of his will have to pay.  That is way too much assumption for my tastes, and we all know what happens when we assume.  In addition he makes no mention of the potential tax consequences of enacting this strategy.

In my analysis of Mr. Ashby's assumptive and quite flawed case study I have found multiple egregious suppositions that I am quite frankly, disgusted by.  In so being I will now outline the many potential pitfalls this strategy has.

Pitfall #1 - Home Acquisition Indebtedness vs. Home Equity Indebtedness

The vast majority of the "Advisors" recommending people use this strategy base their advice on the fact that mortgage interest is tax deductible.  The idea of creating this arbitrage is firmly rooted in this. The key fact that is so conveniently omitted or ignored by these "Advisors" is the difference between what the IRS considers Acquisition Indebtedness and Home Equity Indebtedness.  Acquisition Indebtedness is any money that you borrow to acquire the home and the interest on which is tax deductible (as of this writing) on up to $1,000,000.00 of the debt.  Home Equity Indebtedness is any money you take out of the home through a cash-out refinance, home equity line of credit or other mortgage not used for making capital improvements to the home and is only tax deductible on the first $100,000.00.  In the past the IRS had no way of telling how much of your home loans interest was being paid toward the Acquisition Indebtedness or Home Equity Indebtedness, this however has changed.  The IRS is requiring lenders to report how much of the interest they are collecting is for Acquisition Indebtedness and how much is for Home Equity Indebtedness.

So if you bought your home for $100,000.00 and subsequently paid off $10,000.00 of your principle balance and you decided that you wanted to take cash out of your home to invest it, you would only be allowed to deduct the interest paid on the first $190,000.00 of the new debt.

Example:  (Acquisition Indebtedness $100,000.00 - Principle Paid $10,000.00 = Remaining Acquisition Indebtedness of $90,000.00 + Maximum Home Equity Indebtedness $100,000.00 = Total Amount of Tax Deductible Debt of $190,000.00)

Without this tax advantaged treatment of the mortgage interest the Equity Harvesting Strategy falls short of producing the desired returns.

Pitfall #2 - The AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax)

Allow me to pre-qualify my following statements as they pertain to the AMT with two disclosures: 1) I am not an accountant and do not provide tax advice.  2) To obtain tax advice on how the AMT or other tax related issues may affect you, please consult a Tax Professional.

The AMT is becoming more and more of an issue for middle class families.  One of the places the AMT impacts people is in their ability to deduct their mortgage interest.  Individuals and Families who find themselves subjected to the AMT will see their mortgage interest deduction phased out either partially or in its entirety.  So again we have a situation where the tax deductible nature of mortgage interest, that this Equity Harvesting Strategy so heavily relies upon, is eliminated from the equation.

Pitfall #3 - Investment Selection

The economic concept behind the Equity Harvesting Strategy is Arbitrage.  Borrow money at one rate and invest it in something that gives you a higher rate of return.

Example:  Borrow at 6%, Invest and Earn 10% = Profit of 4%

There is nothing wrong with this strategy.  Business and banks fuel our economy by enacting this practice on a daily basis.  A business uses a line of credit to purchase inventory and incurs interest charges but through having the inventory its customers are frequently buying the interest expense is justified by the speed at which the business is able to turn over that inventory.  A bank pays it depositors 4% and lends the money to it's borrowers at 6% and makes 2% on the spread.  This happens everyday; this is what these companies are business to do.  With enacting the practice of Equity Harvesting into your personal financial plan you are essentially putting yourself into the business of doing the same.

You borrow money through a mortgage that you must pay 6% interest on.  You now have to select investments that are going to earn you more then 6% in order to make a profit.  If you do not earn more then 6% on your investments then you are taking a loss and no one acquires wealth through the taking of losses.  Now many of the so called "Equity Managers" out there will be quick to say ‘you don't have to earn more then 6% because the mortgage interest is tax deductible' even though I have already spent considerable time outlining how this very well may not be the case in Pitfalls 1 & 2.  In light of this I will not rehash it here but move forward with the next pitfall.

Pitfall #4 - Taxation

Let's say you have decided that you feel that you are able to achieve a rate of return greater then the interest you would have to pay to service your debt.  Is this rate of return still greater then the interest rate after you factor in what you will have to pay in taxes on said investments return?  If not then you are once again taking a loss.

Pitfall #5 - Fees, Commissions and Other Costs

Most investment vehicles have some form of cost attached to them.  You either have to pay commissions on their purchase and sale or a management fee to an investment advisor or a ticket charge to a discount broker... you get the idea.  Does the investment still yield more then what you are paying in interest when this is factored in with your tax liability?

Pitfall #6 - Risk

The investment vehicles that you would need to put your money into in order to achieve a rate of return greater then the rate of interest you would have to pay will carry a capital risk.  In this I mean, you could lose the money and in the event that you did lose the money you would still have the debt.

There are many other flaws in the Equity Harvesting Strategy but for fear that I will never get this blog posted I am choosing at to move on to the MMA Strategy at this point.

The MMA Strategy is one that I believe is inherently less risky and is more easily quantified with significantly less supposition.  The MMA is a debt reduction strategy while the Equity Harvesting Strategy is one that increases debt.  In my professional opinion, there is no other strategy available today that will enable someone to pay off their home sooner without making significant sacrifices to cash flow.  Simply put, if you want to own your home free and clear the MMA is the way to go.  If you do not care about owning your home free and clear and feel you are able to circumnavigate the pitfalls I have outlined above, then by all means, proceed with an equity harvesting strategy.

Over the coming weeks I will be posting additional blog entries about the MMA and Equity Harvesting.  For now if you would like more information on the MMA Program you can visit: http://www.freeandclearinfiveyears.com/

My next blog on Equity Harvesting will be titled - Equity Harvesting; Ask Yourself, Who Does it Benefit? The Cost of Equity Harvesting vs. The Cost of the MMA

Leon Austin
Mobile Notary Services - Colorado Springs, CO
Colorado Springs Mobile Notary
This is interesting. I bookmarked both this post and that website. It's a lot to digest.
Jun 24, 2007 06:16 PM
Robert D. Ashby
Cruise Planners of South Florida - Plantation, FL
Providing Personalized Travel

Jason,

I deleted the second comment to maintain professionalism within the post.  I would have welcomed a more professional comment supplied by yourself, one that portrays you in a better light, rather than an unfounded attack on my personal background without knowing the full story, and one that shows factual statements.  Your statement that I said this was for everybody is completely false as I have mentioned in so many posts that there is never one solution for everybody and that is why they need to seek a true professional, such as a CMPS designated individual (like yourself) to see ALL solutions, not one way streets. 

I also never claimed that the MMA programs are bad, in fact stating they are beneficial to some, but they are likely not the best solution for you or you could do almost as well by yourself.

I can only assume your personal attacks on me are to discredit my name to gain business, a rather unprofessional means of accomplishing that as it shows your true self.

I am sure you will even state that since I am a pilot also, I must not be "passionate" about this business and should get out.  I assure you I am passionate and devoted to both businesses and I am an expert in both as well.  By the way, you should look at what the NASD's reply is to the "Betting the Ranch" statements they have made.  They are not against Equity Harvesting or any other strategy as you implied, just so long as it is suitable and the investments are not required to pay the mortgage so as to to endanger the home.  Again, use facts, not opinion please.

Jun 24, 2007 11:52 PM
Robert D. Ashby
Cruise Planners of South Florida - Plantation, FL
Providing Personalized Travel

Jason,

Equity Harvesting does have its falws and is not for everyone, but it does have a lot of benefits as well.  No one strategy is best for everyone and everyone's situation is different.

Yes, I use assumptions as no one knows the future, but since economic cycles tend to repeat themselves, their averages are typically used by any financial planner as a "road map" for the plan.  Any financial advisor will tell you that you need to revisit that plan regularly and make corrections as and only when needed including in the Equity Harvesting plan.  (I made it clear that they were assumptions based on averages, that the plan is not right for everyone, and that it is best when switching homes in truth.)

Real Estate Assumption - 4%  Even in today's current market, if you look at housing price history 1982 - 2002, which included several down years, the average annual rate is greater than 4%, so my assumptions were in line.

Rate of return on investments - First off, different people require different investment strategies.  To place any one investment, or even if it is paying off their mortgage, is not acting in the client's best interests.  The client's overall financial picture needs to be looked at including their suitability factors, goals, etc. and then a plan developed around those answers.  Rate of returns I use are in the middle (somewhat conservative) of what financial advisors use everyday for their client's plans.  Again, realistic assumptions.

Assuming future interest rates - I never said they would stay the same or change, but stated I would keep it the same for the comparison.  Again, I mentioned if it doesn't make sense, I wouldn't recommend it.  That is why it works better when moving to a new home since you have to get a new mortgage.  But even if rates go up, investments go up as well, so it still has the potential of being a really good deal for some.  (When interest rates were high in the early 80s, treasuries were high as well). 

Interest rate history - Historically interest rates avarage a little over 7%.  Ever wonder why in 2003 they were saying we were at the lowest rates in 40 years?  Did you realize the prior 40 years were always lower than in 2003?  Rates are likely to stay relatively similar to where they are now.  They will fluctuate just like every market does, but their "averages" tend to remain about the same.

MMA strategy - Has flaws as well.  Home equity fails an investment "litmous" test.  No rate of return, little or no liquidity, and is not as safe as people are led to believe, especially in Florida.  It is a good strategy for some and I recommend it for some, but certainly do not taught it to be the best overall strategy, on that many people differ with me and that is fine.

As for me personally and my business.  I am both a pilot and a mortgage professional which limits my time, but puts me in a very unique position.  I do not "need" money from my mortgage business, and I will not put me earning money over what is best for my client, simply put. I employ multiple startegies across the range of Equity Harvesting to MMA (mortgage acceleration) and sometimes tell people not to do anything.  It is simply up to their situation. 

I am not a commission based software seller taughting that the software itself is the reason for the savings and mortgage acceleration, which is one reason I do not like the MMA software program that is going for $3,500.  Using fiscal discipline and basic math, you can do just as well as the majority of the savings is found in the prepayment of the mortgage, not the software's analysis.  For some, the software will be needed I am sure.

Now, you can see where I coming from, why I post what I post, the fact that every startegy has risks and rewards and that no strategy is best for everyone. 

Thank you for the post, but please add links back to me if you use my name again as a courtesy.

Jun 25, 2007 12:23 AM
Jason Leone
Logical Choice Lending, Inc. - Fort Lauderdale, FL

Robert

You've asked that I use facts and not opinion; to this I say we are to use the facts to create an opinion and that, as an "advisor" people pay you for your opinion, more importantly they pay you for your opinion to be right.  You quote averages and then base your advice (your opinion) on these averages.

I have heard these strategies advocated by Barry Habib, Steven Marshal and Doug Andrew and I believe that they over simplify them (especially Doug Andrew) in order to sell their products to industry professionals, who in turn give this advice to their clients without present the whole picture.  I recommend reviewing the material produced by the Wealth Preservation Institute at http://www.thewpi.org/ on the topic as I believe they give the strategy a more balanced and accurate portrayal.  I would also like to state that it is my intention to start taking some of the classes they offer as well.

It seems that there is a point of contention with MMA Agents making a commission on a one time sale of the MMA software, but make no mention is made of the commissions collected through the FIVE REFINANCES you advocate through equity harvesting, nor the commissions on the investments that the money will be placed into.  Why is one type commission ok and another wrong.  There is nothing wrong with collecting a commission on a sale as long as the service or product you have provided gives the purchaser greater use value then what they paid in cash value.  This is a topic I am going to cover in my next blog (Equity Harvesting; Ask Yourself Who Does it Benefit) and I will link this comment to the blog once I post it and due to this I will refrain from going into detail about it here.

As to your comment about me trying to discredit you in order to get business, nothing could be further from the truth.  You see I take a more Metaphysical Approach to my business and create my wealth through the Creative Method rather then the Competitive Method.  If you don't know what I am talking about I suggest you read The Science of Getting Rich, as I will not plagiarize nor express the opinions others as being my own by paraphrasing the book here.

Now to address your comment that "Averages Remain the Same".  This statement may work in theory but we do not live in a world of averages.  Averages even out because time reduces volatility.  Historically, when rates rise, they rise sharply.  When they fall it tends to be much slower.  If we stretch the history of interest rates over 200 years, the way Jim McMahan has, then of coarse they will seem stable but all you need to do to move from theory to practicality is look at the last 3 years and at how sharply the Fed Funds Rate, The MTA, The Libor and other Interest Rate Indices have climbed.  I speak to people everyday that took out ARM's and are now facing their first adjustment and I can assure you they do not want to hear about historical averages and how they can wait for rates to come back down.  They do not want to take more money out of their equity and to increase their monthly payments so that they can invest.  These people don't want higher payments, they don't want to hear about averages.  They want fixed rates and they want their payments to be as low as possible.  They want to pay off their homes and be mortgage free.  This brings me to my next point.

You talk about the NASD not wanting the investment strategy being used to pay the mortgage but in your case study you illustrate how your "clients" will be able to pay off their mortgage in full with the proceeds of their investment in 30 years.  Wouldn't this be "using the money to pay the mortgage?"

In closing I would like to address the comment you made about something on my MySpace Profile.  When I made reference to part time mortgage professionals needing to leave the business, it was in regards to those I have seen on MySpace.  If you go to http://www.myspace.com/ and search for Mortgage Broker or Loan Officer you will see what I am referring to.  Many of those on MySpace calling themselves Mortgage Broker or Loan Officer have a disclaimer in their profile pertaining to what they "really" want to be doing with there lives rather then being in the Mortgage Industry.  If you do the search you will see what a sad state of affairs much of the mortgage business is in and my comment about the unprofessional profiles on MySpace is in no way a reflection on anyone who conducts themselves as a True Professional, be it full or part time.

Jun 25, 2007 03:51 AM
Jason Leone
Logical Choice Lending, Inc. - Fort Lauderdale, FL
David A. Podgursky PA
THE PODGURSKY GROUP @ Re/Max Direct - Boynton Beach, FL
THE PODGURSKY GROUP - Make the Right Move!

Jason... this is not a forum for you to attack another member in the least

everyone has their own opinion on what works best and for whom

this is a marketing medium and it is actually quite poor form to put your hostilities towards others' methods into someone else's arena

if you feel that competitive and passionate, then write a post like you did

calling out another ActiveRain member shows that your ethics and professionalism are below par which will definitely hurt your credibility here and in the marketplace

Your FACT FACT FACT comment shows that your inability to get along with people will cause more friction and more conflict which has no place here.

I am flagging your post for the unprofessional attack on one of our positive contributors.  This has nothing to do with whether I agree with his post - just that I don't agree with your methods.

Jun 26, 2007 02:49 AM
Robert D. Ashby
Cruise Planners of South Florida - Plantation, FL
Providing Personalized Travel
Jun 26, 2007 03:31 AM
Jason Leone
Logical Choice Lending, Inc. - Fort Lauderdale, FL

David,

It seems Robert and I got off on the wrong foot and have been in direct communication vial e-mail.  Both of us had the same intentions in posting our blogs.  Robert felt that the people advocating the MMA were not showing both sides of the coin and I felt the same way about the equity harvesting post.  Robert and I are in agreement that their is no one strategy that is right for everyone.

I have edited my initial and quite frankly harsh response and would like to state that I am proud to call Robert a Colleague and fellow CMPS.

Jun 26, 2007 05:01 AM