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What is it that Makes us American ?

As American's we have enjoyed a wonderfull run. We have made our mistakes of course but for the most part we have stayed the course.

Many, many countries around the world have and continue to look up to us for guidance even when we occasionally stumble, pick ourselves up and dust off. In our darkest hours they still look to us and hope to become us.

What is it then about the American spirit that causes so many to look to us? Among many, many things it is our sense of fair play. The spirit that pushes up to not only do better but to be the best at everything we do. Our lives are constantly filled with this competitive drive.

Some times we lose and some times we win. We teach our children that even with the loss there is much to be gained. Each and every loss should inspire you to do better next time. This is what drives us and inspires us.

As an active real estate agent for more than 20 years the dynamic plays out over and over again in my career. With the listing presentations I give, the new Buyer client's that I meet and the properties that I see hoping to match them with an active Buyer. On and on it goes. I don't get every listing that I give a presentation to nor do I sell a house to every potential Buyer that I meet.

I do give it my best shot though every time out. And for those efforts that I am not successful in I thank them kindly for the opportunity, I pick my self up dust off and do it again and again.

In the last decade or so I have seen a change though in this very American dynamic. In our past struggles we have admired, congratulated the winner and vowed to win next time, picking up and dusting off ourselves in eager anticipation of our next challenge. We now see more envy and or down right disdain for the winners. It has become common place it seems to disparage the winners rather than congratulate them. In fact many have taken it so far as to create vast campaings to marginalize the winners. This is not good for us or for our country.

We can not all be winners every time yet some feel as if when they do not win it is not because of their short comings, it must be because others are some how misguided. Fueled by this thought process rather than picking up and dusting off many of these losers spend their time trashing the winner. Instead of moving on to the next challenge or learning through their loss there are those who choose to simply live in disbelief of their loss and try to convince others through their attacks on the winner that some how they were right and the majority was wrong.

No bigger arena for this current struggle exists than that of the world of Politics. In my life as I look back through all of the Political challenges, I think of those I supported both the winners and the losers. I remember fondly of how both those who won and those who lost demonstrated to us what it is to be American. The losers picked themselves up dusted off and congratulated the Winner. The Winners took time out to reach out to the loser and congratulate them on a battle well fought.

It is time we once again begin showing the world and ourselves what it is to be American. We should not trash the winner nor should we spend our time trying to convince others that some how our loss was a fluke.

Pick yourself up, dust off and congratulate the winner. We are Americans, shouldn't we begin acting like it?

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Posted by Downtown Portland Real Estate Broker~Herb Hamilton on 10/31/2009 04:15 PM

Comments (79)

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Originally posted at: Herb's Portland Oregon Real Estate Blog your RE/MAX Agent: What is it that Makes us American ?

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79 Comments on What is it that Makes us American ?

OCT

Thank you, Herb. This is a sensible, well-reasoned and thoughtful comment on a prevalent condition. I appreciate the reality. Have a wonderful weekend!

Ray,

Thanks and thanks for stopping by.

Ya Right.

I agree in part and it is in fact a great way to live life. In the political arena however, congratulating the winner is far different than supporting policies that destroy the fabric of this country. Being an American is much more than patting each other on the back, it is borders, language and culture...without these foundations, we have no America to be American about.

We have allowed to many foreigners into the country to be Americans. Walk any mall and all you see is people from other countries, speak no english but have a drivers license, medicaid card and visa.

Thanks Gregg and Ed for your comments. But Ed there is such a thing as the principles of Democracy. Just because a person feels that they are right does not make it so. Living in a democracy is to understand that there may be others who have opposing views and are feverently passionate about those views. When they are in the majority then the masses have spoken.

This does not of course mean that you have to champion those convictions. But you should not trash them for the sake of trashing. After all a person who holds an opposing view no matter how pasionate may just be wrong!

Joyce,

Thanks for stopping by. If I were to take your comment seriously then we should all leave, save the American Indians.

NOV

Since I never post, this is a test before I respond.....to be sure I don't waste time.

Thanks for writing. Did you use a voice typing system? I wonder because in reading your article, I did read one thing and thought you did mean another, i.e., if instead of

"... should expire you to do better"

you would have meant (your voice to type system to type)

"... should inspire you to do better..."

Perhaps part of what makes us -- all of us -- a nation of immigrants, is some sense of humble-ness Without getting carried away with religiouis zeal or anything, sometimes I have felt a simultaneous pride and humbleness, not like one has to overshadow the other.

Thanksgiving each year usually reminds me of this.

Thanks again for writing.

Alan Kelly, owner/operator

http://www.VerbatimIT.com

What is it that Makes Us American?

Perhaps a more appropriate question in these times would be to ask...............

What WAS it that made us Americans?

When I see what is happening in my state of Michigan, it leaves me with nothing but sadness.

You ask........"Pick yourself up, dust off and congratulate the winner. We are Americans. Shouldn't we be acting like it?"

With all due respect, how do we dust ourselves off and do this? When I see the amount of people losing their homes& jobs, the games the Banks are playing, the money being spent by the government in trillions of dollars........how do WE dust ourselves off.

We cannot fight the government and make Real Estate and America what it WAS. Sure,we need to try to be positive, but when we realize what government and banks have done to our economy and our homes, there is nothing left but negativity. AND! It's something we can do NOTHING about.

As TRUE Americans, we need to bring our country back to where it was under the Founding Fathers. How do we do that?

How do we become real homeowners again and sell and buy homes for our Sellers and Buyers without having that feeling that someone is losing their hard earned dollars in their sale, or perhaps paying too much for a home that will fall in value, perhaps within months, after a purchase.

We have no control over this any longer. Where we used to look at APPRECIATION FACTORS, we are now watching horrendous DEPRECIATION.

Although you meant to "cheer us up" and "motivate us" to dust ourselves off and be POSITIVE........it just doesn't work with me.

Have you read the book, "The Housing Boom and Bust" by Thomas Sowell?

You will get all of your answers there.

Thanks, Herb....thoughtfully said!

I believe the disdain in the rhetoric has long since passed any measure of civility. The web and the media amplify everything....moreso the worst in us (because the BEST in us apparently attracts no attention!)...giving it more voice and perceived credibilty than it deserves. The common perception seems to be "he who yells loudest must be right!"

I find the comment about "letting too many foreigners" in our country absolutely incredulous! WE ARE ALL (except, to the best of our knowledge, the Native Americans...ie, Indians) FOREIGNERS. We "whites" basically drove the natives from their homes, stole their land, disparaged their traditions, mutilated their sacred buriel grounds...and had the audacity to call THEM the heathens. We kidnapped countless thousands of human beings from the other side of the world, beat and raped them into slave labor, and treated them as something "less than" human! Hardly parts of our history to be revered. At our best we've done AMAZING things....we helped feed and teach and cloth and cured of horrific disease countless millions around the world. We given rise to some wonderful technologies and great opportunity...but we've also given rise to a climate of hatred and unbridled greed that persists today. As the rich get richer, largely on the backs of the poorest of our poor (whose ranks grow daily!) we've lost a great measure of our humanity. It seems forsaking common sense is OK when it benefits the wealthy and powerful...but heaven forbid we actually USE common sense for the benefit of those who most need help! Our great American experiment has its flaws!

Until we actually BEHAVE in a manner consistent with our ideals and our "professed" convictions, we have little to celebrate and, it seems, much to learn! Unfortunately, it appears many of the lessons we most need to heed are falling on too many deaf ears!

Linda,

Thank you for your comment and your passion. Although you may be expierinencing a severe drop in equity ( in your area ) that is not happenining everywhere. That does not mean that everything is okay. Just that conditions on the ground are not the same for everyone.

In my area I recently went to a seminar that looked at the history of real estate over the last 100 years. There have been many times when the market has seen severe drops. Nothing goes up forever. Home ownership is more than just equity at the end of the day.

Providing a home where friends and family gather through times of hope and prosperity and the bad times as well builds relationships that endure the test of time. Equity if there is one is just a bonus.

In terms of how we feel about governmnt, we live in a representative democracy. In times of prosperity we often neglect the behind the scenes changes that go on. It is our fault that we have allowed these changes. It is not to late however to make new changes or restore things that worked.

Do you make your voice and concerns known to your elected officials? Or do you beleive like most people that somehow they will get the message as if in a dream. Call and email often. The squeaky board gets all of the attention.

Work to eliminate campaign finance by corporate interests. Help to develop a system where the elected officials are beholding to the people not the lobbyist.

Good Sunday morning to you Herb !

Isn't it ironic that your call to civility and patriotism brings out the very fringe groups you write of ? Isn't it enough that they trashed the country and our image around the world for eight years that they now fight those who would try to restore this great country to a better place ? Have those criticizing your call for graciousness and honor not sent enough of our best and brightest into senseless wars ? Well said, Herb. I wish some here would leave the ugliness and hatred behind !

Judi,

Hear hear! Well said. Our great expierment is a fluid movement. Sometimes we get a little off track.

It is each and every one of our jobs to help right the ship.

Bill,

Thanks for stopping by and your comment. Have a great week end.

First of all, Bill........there is no ugliness and HATRED coming from ME.

It never fails that when someone expresses an opinion of America "Today"...that we MUST refer back to the last 8 years.........hatred and racism.

Bill.......this has been happening for a century and especially in the past 20 years. I am not blaming any ONE political party as you are. You need to leave that behind and open your eyes. Our country is going to hell in a hand basket and you choose to cast blame.

Herb, thanks. I am personally involved in much writing, emails and fax to representatives.

These are hard times in Michigan that most can't understand, for sure.

Alan,

LOL correction made. Yes the downfall of using spell-check is that when I am in a hurry I only check the miss-spelled words.

Then again sometimes it makes it more fun that way.

There is a deep cultural/Political divide in this country. Often those that claim they are above the fray are really just trying to create a position of "moral" superiority while having an agenda that is neither moral nor superior.

Some politicians claim to be Post Partisan yet they are the most Partisan. Language is a powerful tool and those that define the terms can often claim a victory.

This country is rapidly approaching a tipping point. We will either return to our roots or become a dictatorship (and I cannot tell you if it will be a dictatorship of the right or left).

As too Partisan bickering it is nothing new. Jefferson and Adams went years without speaking. One of our first vice Presidents shot and killed the Treasury Secretary in a duel. I could go on, but you get the point.

Thanks Gene,

Yes it is true that in our past we have shown tremendous partisan bickering.

There are many things in our past that were common place, today we would not think of doing those things.

We have evolved in many ways, occasionally though the past rears its uggly head and we regress.

I would hope that our civility towards one another will prevail and that the uggliness will fade.

From a Canadian looking in on this discussion, I read fear in a lot of the comments. Michigan is suffering much more than most areas in the US but I would not for a minute think Americans are feeling euphoric about the economy in any state.

Democracy and a capitalist economy will always allow for a small number to rise to a metetoric level of wealth and most to not. It comes down to motivation and opportunity. The original comment was to appreciate that we will have winners and losers but will fight to win another day.

North America is not in a fight within States, but within the global economy. No politician or political party can protect an industry where costs of production and profitability is won out by a foreign market. (Wages here vs 'there' means we will lose the majority of the time). What the USA had said for years...work hard and you will reap the benefits had been well learned by foreign markets. There is no use attacking your neighbors in state or country for something they have no real control over. Unless wages and cost of production are on par to that being done in foreign nations, there is no true competition. The jobs lost are gone forever and therefore local economies are in real jeopary. Real estate prices are early indicators of the new reality.

Just an opinion from the north and I wish it were not the truth as I see it. When the USA sneezes Canada get the flu! The massive economic restructuring affects all nations . But remember, blaming each other does not solve anything...looking for new opportunities does....and isn't that the truly American Way.

First off, I need to repeat we have to remain non-partisan here.

That being said, I probably appear to be representing on party over another. I am not.

To Canada........America is sneezing a whole lot lately! It's contagious!

Our country was based on capitalism and freedom. We are now becoming socialists. This was never the intent of the Founding Fathers. Our freedoms are being taken away on a daily basis now.

This started decades ago to, repeat myself.

We are not Canada or the UK........we are the USA.

A few weeks ago, an old time ActiveRainer was complaining about how politics was overwhelming professional dialogue in this forum. I disagreed and said that politics has a place here because political issues are both part of the problem and part of the solution to the severe challenges that the real estate business is facing right now.

But your post isn't political, it's the worst kind of nationalistic bigotry. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say, but it certainly has no place here. I like being an American Herb. Let's try showing the people in this country how good we can be before worrying about the rest of the world.

The values that you're talking about are human values, not American. They have to be created, cared for, and passed on by people... not claimed and sung about by a flock of chanting geese.

Dorinda the Canadian,

Thank you so much for your comment, truly well said. I suspect that there are many who share your thoughts both hear and around the world.

Where is the nationalistic bigotry?

If we Americans remain proud of our country, flag and freedoms..........we're bigots?

That is the problem. People have forgotten the men and women who died to keep our country free.

Andrew,

Thanks for stopping by. And thank you for recognizing the fact that I did not intend to write a political post.

Politics is not what motivated me to write the post. Quite frankly it was watching the interaction between an over zealous parent and their child in a local sporting event. There were no encouraging words shared only hatred. It made me sad to watch.

My children have long grown up yet I remember those times of wins and losses. I also remember the coaches supporting ther players encouraging them to congratulate the winner and vow to do better next time.

It is not I who pushed for a global economy. It is not I who gave tax breaks to those who would move our factories and jobs over seas. It is certainly not I who believes that we should bend to the wills of those who live in other nations.

It is interesting to me though when those that lose to a majority suddenly claim that the majority is nothing more than " a flock of chanting geese ".

As to what topic is apropriate for this blog site, that is decided by those who participate and those who who hold ownership. Didn't see your name listed.

Linda,

Thanks for your continuing comments and dedication to remaining true to your convictions in a civil manner.

Hi Herb,

Thank's for taking the time to respond. I'm just as guilty as you are, but make no mistake... you are making political statements. The 'majority's' ethos and ideology is the wallpaper in the house that we all live in, and it's so deeply ingrained that people think of it as gospel rather than a political agenda.

This is why you're able to talk so sincerely about communication and the children, and won't even admit that a bit of patriotic flag waving was your main point.

There is a place for patriotism and national pride doesn't have to be destructive, but true quality is earned and and must be maintained on a daily basis to survive. This is the true essence of a democracy. There are no losers, only people.

Herb,

Very well said! AMEN!!!!

Dust is off...and moving forward!!

Kathy Opatka

Andrew,

A well reasoned response. Have a great weekend.

Kathy,

Thanks for stopping by and your comment. Now go get-em.

I love you too Herb. Have a good one.

Great post. Yes, we are Americans.

Herb, I hope you are not suggesting form your original post that we just sit back and agree with who ever is in power at the time because they won an election. Politicians do lie in order to get elected. This seems to be especially true with our current President.

How about this: "Congratulations President Obama for winning the election." Now is it OK to disagree with his policies?

Liberals are such hypocrites. I sure didn't see any cooperation from the Democratically controlled Congress when Bush was president. How many of the judges that Bush nominated were approved.......hmmm? Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Bush. He turned out to be a big spending, big Government...blah, blah, blah.

My point is, I will not sit back and play nice in the sandbox while our freedoms and our children's financial well being are destroyed. I think the MAJORITY of Americans have woken up judging by the current pole numbers. Obama may have won the majority of the votes, but he no longer has the majority of the support. Thank God for that.

Stop the madness. Get off your buts and take responsibility for yourselves instead of expecting the Government to do it. Instead of Govt. controlled Health Care and taxes on what I exhale, how about Welfare Reform, Term Limits, Tort reform, competition across state lines for insurance companies, enforce immigration laws, make people prove they are citizens before they vote and punish tax cheats not reward them with a high paying government jobs.

Jeff,

In maintaining a non-partisan mode here.........people will see you as a radical.

But! Guess what? You are not! You speak he truth!!

Jeff,

You read to much into my post. It only uses politics as a refrence of a greater problem, one of civility and aspiring to greatness as an individual and collectively.

The comments have taken on a life of there own as oft time happens.

As for myself I never suggest one stand idly by without comment when they see injustice. That goes for everyone no matter what there political persuasion is. It is the trashing of the messenger that I disagree with.

As for civility towards one another I would suggest you refrain from placing a blanket label upon those you feel you disagree with.

State your argument and debate it passionately. For that you will be complimented on and listened to.

Great Post Herb:

And to many this is a political post but it needs to be said. I agree with everything you said including we are a nation of immigrants. But the difference is the immigrants coming to our country NOW and for the last several years are not coming here to take advantage of the great potential America has to offer. They do NOT want to speak English, the language of our land, they want to retain their native customs (and I will not get into that) and finally they want to change America. And most importantly they do NOT want to be Americans.

In the past the immigrants who came to our great nation became Americans in every facet of the word. They prospered, they did not come here expecting a welfare check or free medical care. They worked hard, sent their children to school and on to college so that they could obtain the American dream. They did not request to be called Italian American, Hispanic American, Asian American, they wanted to be called American. To be blunt hypened Americans make me nervous.

Something else that needs to be cleared up is the entire mortgage fiasco. It was caused by the government starting in the 70's by the CRA (Community Reinvestment Act) put on steroids by the Clinton administration and yes exacerbated by the Bush administration. The government threatened banks into lending to those who could not afford to repay the loan or be restricted from expanding. To put it simply banks either did what the government wanted or their ability to do business was restriced.

To compound the debacle Wall Street,just maximizing profits and having new product to sell, created from the mortgage backed securities a new product to sell. It was the birth of the "CDO" (collateralized debt obligation), SIV (Structured Investment Vehicle) and other highly leveraged debt instruments. Banks even chose to get in on the game because it was very lucrative so they purchased some of this worthless paper. They "hedged" their bet by purchasing Credit Default Swaps (CDS) and thought they were safe but also participated in Interest Rate Swaps. Ask Harvard and Larry Summers about their Interest Rate Swaps program, it cost them $463B.

When the real estate market started to unravel, fear struck, but it was soon overcome by the fact that if they played their paperwork right they could still come out on top. Meaning they collected on the Credit Default Swaps (insurance policy on defaulted loans). The banks make more money by foreclosing on the properties and then selling the house to boot. Banks are loan sharks with a license and the government is well aware of that. That is precisely why the Feds decided we had to purchase AIG (largest seller of Credit Default Swaps) because if AIG went under we were really in trouble. That is the primary reason most lenders have not and will not modify loans, there is too much money to be made in foreclosure; now that is just pure greed. But is it also the way the government has structured the tax laws regarding the mortgage backed securities, there is a huge tax levy on the investors when the loan is modified (no it's not a write off - it's a penalty to the investors.). So if you have any complaints, address them to Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd and Charlie Rangel. These guys are elected criminals and truly need to be prosecuted nt re-elected.

In a Capitalist Society all economic groups rise in prosperity, just like all boats rise in high tide. America is the greatest naiton in the world. We have NEVER taken over a country. Yes war is evil. We didn't and don't start wars, we are the protector of the world and unfortunately many nations expect that of us, even our neighbors.

To put it simply, I was blessed to be born in America. It is the land of the free and home of the brave. I do not need my president doing any world wide apology tour. If America has anything to apologize for it's perhaps not recognizing that some countries and peoples cannot accept the responsibilities of freedom. Americans believe in freedom, freedom to choose our life's paths not have a government tell us what to do, how to do it and when to do it.

We are on a very dangerous path, there is a fork in the road we have a choice to make freedom or the security of a govermment telling us how to live our lives, choosing our health care options and even denying us options because we are not contributing to the economy. Yes, they will pull the plug on granny and maybe even you.

Kimo,

If you don't see Socialism and now bordering on Marxism, you haven't been paying attention.

When the rug is pulled out from under you, you will fall hard. Others, who have their eyes open will land a bit more softlly.

Patti,

Your comment could be its own post. Wow!

First of all that is a pretty broad brush you paint with in regards to immigrants. It does not take much imagination to make the leap to your conclusion among some circles. I also would not be surprised to find out that many of those who do fall in that category learn to do so right here and probably among those who employ them for the smallest of wages.

However the vast many of people that I meet ( immigrants wise ) come here to excel and they do assimilate quite well.

As to your perspective about lending practice's as those who are in fault. Just because you currently are the watch dog of lending does not mean that you have always held that power or had the authority to make changes.

Stay away from the Kool-aid its not that good for you.

Such an interesting discussion with so many points of view.

Kimo,

Thanks for participating. I enjoyed your comment.

Good stuff and comments. If only we could get the government to mandate and teach these morals to all citizens. (sarcasm)

Linda,

Labels can have many meanings. They are most often used to boil down the talking points to a single meaning. Often those single meanings are mis-interpreted.

Socialism : Most of the conversation is really about Social Services yet many would have you believe that we are ready to to become the next communist nation.

Mike,

Good luck with your Buyer's seminar. That snow in your yard brings a chill down my spine. 60f here today, was a nice sunny day for my open house. I will check out bigger pockets. I like the concept.

Thanks for stopping by.

Time to roll up our sleeves and get to work...

Patti is drinking the Kool aid? I think not! Communist nation? It's right around the corner! With people like Van Jones, Anita Dunn............followers of Mao Tse Tung..................Jones.........self proclaimed commie...................just where do you think we are headed?

Thanks for stopping by Ben.

Come on Linda Hold it together. You wont be able to sleep at night if you keep watching Fox.

FOX is too Fair and Balanced for me! They're starting to drink the Kool Aid there. Seriously, if you ever watched it Herb, you'd know what I'm saying.

OH! So you know nothing about Saul Alinsky and the school for Radicals?

OH BROTHER!! Another misinformed person. Do yourself a BIG favor.........don't hide your head in the sand any longer.

I sleep well at night, Herb. I have no worries.......I turn things over to God. But, God helps those who help themselves, ya know? We need to save this country....SO....we need to pay attention! ;)

This blog shows what makes us Americans, we can have our own opinion and still live right next to each other in harmony and have our own lives to live.

Herb what a breath of fresh air. Just common American values. Where has all the anger come from? Don't folks realize that what is put out will come right back to smack them in the face. I really liked your analogy of selling and listing houses. No matter what, we must always to it with a SMILE.

Yes we can, Tony! That's the way we want it to stay. When our rights are taken away oneby one..these blogs won't exist.

YES! I said it! Pelosi and Obama want to take this away from us. If you don't want to believe it, then stay on your road to nowhere.

I cannot even believe how manyof you still don't get it!

Some here have posted the truth and haven't come back. Me? I keep trying to no avail.

I guess I will just dust myself off and leave some of you in la-la land. Geez.......that must feel good when ignorance is bliss.

I refuse to start posting all the proof I have of what is happening. Not only would some of you NOT agree...but probably wouldn't read it anyway. Once you wake up to reality, its much easier to tolerate.

I guess the places such as Oregon hasn't been hit with the truth yet.

Good Luck!

I think Herb is well spoken and fair, unlike Fox, I think he is American. I think I tend to disagree with Linda, but I think she is American. I think the immigrant that comes to America, (legal or otherwise), comes here to be American! I think in the greatest country in the world, there should not be a child that goes to bed hungry. I believe every individual that can work, should. I think we should be thankful to be able to wake up in the morning and choose what God we want to pray too. I think we should respectfully say what we want to in a blog, it's comments or some other media source. Most of all, I think we need the American League to win the world series! GO YANKEES!!!

NOV

Herb, as a proud American, I'm saddened at what our country has become...but I'm scared of what our country might turn into.

Leilani

Souza Realty

Good Morning all.

Linda,

I agree that we all need to pay attention. It is not only the right thing to do it is our obligation as citizens. The collective whole does not improve by mimicking an Ostrich.

Tony,

Thanks for stopping by and for your comment.

Debra,

Real estate is fun and sometimes perplexing. No reason though to let it get you down. Years ago I was taught to view my success through failure. Understanding your failure rate can get you very motivated.

Example: Your failure rate is 3 out of 5. If you fail three times in a row you should be pumped for your 4th presentation.

Keith,

Very well said. I agree with much of what you had to say. As for the Series , I have no dog in the hunt team wise but am partial to the AL.

Leilani,

Thanks for reading and for the comment. Have a great day.

I have read and reread each and every quote in this thread, and have given much thought to how I would add my two cents. What I find sad is this is a low point in our Countries history. We are ruled by a Constitution that created this great Country. Almost every day for the last eighteen to twenty months the past and current leaders have changed policy that is not congruent with the Constitution. When we begin bailing out banks, taking over two automakers, and instituting cap and trade, the fairness doctrine, and changing health care is a slippery slope. When the make over is complete the government will control 48% of the US economy. How do you think our industry, Real Estate will fare in a free market situation vs. the new direction of the Country? It is time to stop fulling ourselves, and pull our heads out of the sand and stand up for what made this Country great!

This is NOT the HOPE and CHANGE I wanted!

Message to Linda - Don't get discouraged and don't get mad. There are many that see, understand and know what you are talking about and no, we're not drinking the kool aid, we're putting lots of time into researching and finding the information that is being withheld by main stream media. I know it's frustrating, but try to stay calm and don't refuse to post your information. Post it proudly but post it calmly. More and more people are waking up, but they are doing it slowly. My awakening came from an innocuous Realtor post (on Active Rain no less!!!) about the Federal Reserve not being part of the Federal Government. I didn't know that and didn't believe it and decided to research it. Most people still don't know that. Most people don't know a lot of things that are absolutely true and out in plain sight ... just not in main stream media. That was over a year ago and I have researched and learned so much more since then. You never know what piece of documented information will resonate with a reader. Just put your info out calmly so people can see it and be exposed to the many truths they don't want to see or believe.

Herb, you sound like a nice man. I applaud your efforts and desire to create a forum for an exchange of ideas with the only ground rule being civility. Try to do some real research though, I think you'll find it interesting. The only thing main stream media (pick a station ... any and all qualify) is giving you is half stories and half truths, and in some cases no story and no truth. Do some research on the Federal Reserve, the Cap & Trade Bill, the myth of global warming and what's really in the 1990 pages of the health care bill for starters. Google these subjects and start reading ... I promise you it will be an eye opening experience.

And if you really want to get educated watch this informative documentary called Fall of the Republic, and then research everything in it so you can verify it is factual. That should jump start your researching so here's the link:

http://www.infowars.com/fall-of-the-republic-millions-of-people-worldwide-take-the-red-pill/

Thanks for letting me post my two cents!

Wow, a lot has been posted since I last looked at this. Sorry Linda, I haven't had time to read this post since last night. You are right on and well spoken. Keep it up, your opinion matters. I agree with Diane Z., people are waking up. There is so much going on at once that it is hard to keep up with it all. Our Republic and our Constitution is being attacked on many fronts by many people at once. We have to pick our battles. My battle is, "Throw the bums out". Let's elect some Real People to office.

Hey Herb, do you think Sarah Palin is an air head? Do you think she is a disgrace because her daughter screwed up? That's what I hear from CNN, CSNBC, etc, etc., but not from FOX. Do you need a steady diet of lies to sleep at night? If not, your comment to Linda has me confused "Come on Linda, hold it together. You won't be able to sleep at night if you keep watching Fox News". Try tuning in to Fox News sometime and get a dose reality. Try Glen Beck at 5pm. He is entertaining as well as enlightening. You can always turn it back to CNN before you go to bed.

Thank GOODNESS!! People like Jeff and Diane GET IT!!

This is NOT a Democrat or Republican thing. I call myself NEITHER. This is....I'm repeating........a result of decades of mistakes.

Can't you guys see the New World Order is closer than EVER! THIS is what you want your country to be? This is how you want to live?

Why is it that so MANY people whether in the adminsitartion or the czars etc.........you know...the FRIENDS of Obama, are so RADICAL?

Our country has a constitution that has worked for a very long time. Why do you want to destroy it?

Why did a gym, recently, ask that an American flag be removed? Thank God the owner removed the members!

What is so wrong with prayer in schools? Why can't we have Nativity scenes? There are so many questions and so little time before this country is GONE .....and gone forever. The CONSCIOUS "mistakes" this president is making will never be ale to be turned around! Why do you think he is RUSHING everything?

Why does he HATE FOX? He's battling FOX over Afghanistan for crying out loud!

He is a child......a narcissist........but many see him as their Savior.their Messiah.

What promises has he kept? Tell me..PLEASE!

What is just ONE thing he has done that has made a difference in almost a year? PLEASE..tell me.

Oh! BTW!!

I thought maybe I'd REALLY make some of you CrAzY!

I have my CPL......Concealed Pistol License. yep! I believe in the 2nd Amendment too. Plus, we have had many Realtors attacked here at Open Houses etc...........WHY not? It IS our right. But, they want to take THAT away too!!

Our rights are disappearing.......more o come.......and coming fast.

NOV

Wow!!! What a thread. There are so many ways one could comment as an outsider (with family that have lived in the US for 20+ years.).

Obama has been president for less than one year and it would seem some think every woe of the US are his fault! Ths consitution was created in the 1700's. Times change! Adapting to new realities especially in a global ecomony are a necessity.

And what is the matter with Health Care reform? I feel blessed to know if ANYTHING health wise happens in my family, we do not fear losing everything because we are not insured or adequately insured. We will get treatment. The fear mongering towards change is over the top. The rest of the world is changing dramatically. Why do you think you are immune to the same neccessity.

As a citizen Herb was simply saying that whining, 'bitching' and comdemning others does you no benefit at work or in life. There's a whole lot of that happening and directed at Herb unfairly in my opinion.

Dorinda

Message to Dorinda: Hi Dorinda - What country do you live in ... who knew Active Rain attracted an international audience :) When you say your family lived in the US, I 'm curious to know if that means you lived in the US or you just had family that lived in the US.

Also, I didn't read anyone blaming Obama for everything that has or is happening. I think people are blaming Obama for his obvious lies and broken campaign promises. Off the top of my head ... what happened to no lobbyists in Congress/White House, what happened to transparency and that every bill would be posted for the American public to review for a minimum of 5 days before it was voted on by the Congress, why did he re-sign and extend the Patriot Act, why is he considering sending more troops into Afghanistan and keeping our troops in Iraq when he campaigned to end the wars and bring our troops home. Why is he considering signing the Kyoto Treaty in Copenhagen in December 2009 and do most people understand that will mean he is forfeiting our American sovereignty over to the Global Economy? Why do so many people he put into positions of power in this administration have such radical and anti-American backgrounds. Why are they spending money we don't have like drunken sailors. Why are they bailing out banks and REFUSING to give an accounting of how $700 Billion dollars of taxpayer money was spent. Why are they ramming government take-over of health care down the American public's throat without adequate debate and against the will of a large percentage of the American people.

I don't know what country you live in, but I live in America, where we are a government of the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE and by the PEOPLE. That outdated document, The Constitution of the United States, is WHO and WHAT we are. As Americans, many of us do NOT want to surrender our sovereignty to a Global economy. When the people are afraid of their government you have tyranny, when the government is afraid of the people you have a democracy.

What's wrong with health care? Lots ... but just for starters, who says heath care is a right? In our country we are free people and to mandate that an individual must purchase healthcare they don't necessarily want is unconstitutional. This "healthcare reform" is not free. It will be paid for by raising taxes by $500 Billion dollars on the American people and reducing Medicare to our elderly by $500 Billion dollars. This is not the reform the American people at large are looking for. No one is saying health care doesn't need to be reformed, but we do not want a government takeover of 1/6th of the economy of this country by the government. The government has NEVER run anything profitably or efficiently. Take a look at the bankrupted systems of the Post Office, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the FDIC and the list goes on and on for failed government run operations. The only reason the illusion still exists that the government can sustain any operation is because the Federal Reserve can print out (counterfeit) fiat dollars to subsidize it's failed operations. They print money out of thin air and the American people are on the hook to pay it off. If you and I could just print out money to pay for stuff we needed, we'd all be in good shape too. The only problem is we'd go to jail while the criminals at the Federal Reserve just keep getting away with this scam.

Lastly, I think Herb posted his blog to encourage discussion and debate. I've enjoyed reading this thread of comments. I enjoy, appreciate and respect what everyone has to say, even if I disagree. I find it interesting and informative to understand how different people interpret any given situation, event, statement, etc. I find it helps me to look at topics from a perspective different than my own and gives me an opportunity to try to discuss and defend my position. Since when is discussion and debate a bad thing. I think it's a good thing and that most people can actually learn and grow from it. If everyone just did as they were told, then we'd be a nation of slaves. That is another beautiful right guaranteed to us in that outdated, pesky Constitution, the right to express our opinions and debate the facts. Why would anyone just roll over and do things you are told if they are inherently wrong. Remember that's what all the good people in Germany did and look how that turned out.

Let's all play nicely together please. No lashing out. Debate as you will. Speak passionately as you will. But please keep a civil tone.

THANK YOU ALL EACH AND EVERY ONE Of YOU FOR SHARING YOUR COMMENTS.

Thank you, Diane, for putting these truths into examples. I fell short on that, because many times I feel it's a waste of time to try to expose the truth to those who choose to not listen. You have given me the strength to no longer speak in genaralitiels, but to get down to substance. See, I just can't believe that folks like us are the only ones who see it. My mind seems to want to be set on the fact that everyone sees and hears the truth, but choose to go the other way.

Dorinda........I think Diane has explained our concerns very well. I'd like to take more of a philosophical perspective on this. You know, obviously, how long our constitution has been held in honor. Changing that is a change to America that we don't want. People came here and propsered and were free because of the constitution. Have you ever read it? Because, if you have, you might understand how, because YOU think it's outdated and needs to be brought up to "the times", is ridiculous! Men and women have died to protect our liberties.........and it's now outdated? Our wars & soldiers continue to defend our constitution and what the American flag has represented to us. Do you not think that our soldiers would lose morale over what you are saying? Because, if they are fighting for CHANGE here......then their lives are being put on the line for nothing. When you consider the stories of what happened during the Viet Nam war..........stories like Jane Fonda........all these people who fought while America was condemning their efforts.........their morale went down. I do NOT believe the Viet Nam war was necessary. But...thats another subject.

Are we "immune"? We SHOULD BE!! If their was a vaccine for this, then yes, I believe all need a good dose of it to immunize us against "changing of the foundations of America".........in Obama's own words.

What gave him the right to CHANGE this? He only won by 52% of the vote! Far from a landslide. His polls are declining......if the election were held tomorrow.....November 4th.....he would LOSE, as Americans have now seen the REAL person.

On health care.....I have many things to say. But, one thing essential is to ask...........Why would we completely disrupt health care for only...............get this!.............12 MILLION PEOPLE! Do your homework and you will see that Obama wants to change this for ONLY THAT NUMBER! Ridiculous!I believe everyone needs coverage. But, don't forget.......NO ONE can be turned away from an ER! There is definitely a better way!

I love my country and yes........I would die for it. Whatis strange is that never in my life would I have thought that I just MIGHT have to die for it on my own soil!

NOV

Linda,

Remember about a year and half ago, when the news said Countrywide Home Loans had fired 2 employees "in an identity theft issue?" My brother-in-law is in the FBI. He says that Countrywide was actually CAUGHT uploading the personal information of their mortgagees to ACORN. When they stung ACORN, they found the list along with boxes of blank absantee ballots, and a purchased list of non-voters. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out ACORN was stuffing ballots... AGAIN. They were caught once before when Clinton was running for a second term. And this was only ONE of ACORN's 275 offices. So, I'd say that the "52% of the vote" may not be so accurate.

But you are right about Socialism. I'm 61 years old. I remember my father speaking ill of Roosevelt, and how "we were going to spend an eternity paying his bailout bill." For the first time in America, we were no longer Individualists, but now Collectivists, and started Social Security. Unfortunitly, the only way to get America back now, would be to vote for a dictator, who has the right to just change everything back, with no public vote, and no Congressional ok. And THAT will never happen.

It took us all these years to get 2 trillion dollars in debt. Obama upped it another trillion in his first 3 months. And now he says he's going to sign that UN treaty, in December, that will take the rest (what little we have left) of our rights away, under the guise of helping the environment.

We need to all fall on our faces and pray for America.

NOV

"You know, obviously, how long our constitution has been held in honor. Changing that is a change to America that we don't want. People came here and propsered and were free because of the constitution. Have you ever read it? Because, if you have, you might understand how, because YOU think it's outdated and needs to be brought up to "the times", is ridiculous!"

Hmmm. If we had never changed the Constitution, blacks would still be slaves (and counted as only 3/5 of a person when doing the census), women could not vote, a president could be elected for more than two terms, and much more.

In fact, most of you seem not to know that many of the rights we hold so dear, such as freedom of speech, the right to bear arms, etc. are contained in the first ten AMENDMENTS to the Constitution. In other words, even when it was newly written, it was incomplete and neede to be CHANGED.

As someone else said, the Constitution is a wonderful document and contains the seeds of American democracy and freedom. But it is well over 200 years old and written by men who, geniuses that they may have been, could not have envisioned the day when autos and airplanes were our main means of transportation, when women worked alongside men in every endeavor (including the armed services), when we would have a black president, and so on. Of course, the Constitution has changed and will continue to change in order to accommodate the many amazing developments of the 21st century...just as it did in the 19th and 20th.

Sonsie,

Well said. Thank you for sharing.

NOV

Well said, Grace!

Sonsie......I haven't been back here in awhile. But, my Blackberry alerts me to new messages. I have ignored them. Yet, today while searching through my FAVS, I stumbled on this site again and read your response.

For now, it should suffice to say that I still do not agree with your way of thinking.

Also, we seem to turn this toward a BLACK issue and a Black president, many times, online and in real life. Blacks would NOT still be slaves any more than the Irish and Polish people would still be thrown off the bus and not allowed in restaraunts. We have to stop seeing color and ethnicity. I haven't a racist bone in my body.......but I get tired of making this a black and white issue to cover up for what is realy going on. In fact, since Obama was elected, I see racial tensions growing! We worked hard to rid ourelves of these sins, yet he is allowing division and actually pushing it! I will not be a victim to that either. I get along and see the value in all people regardless of color.

VIVA the the CONSTITUTION and long live the country our Founding Fathers promised and gave to us. It has kept us free....it need not be changed.

"Also, we seem to turn this toward a BLACK issue and a Black president, many times, online and in real life. Blacks would NOT still be slaves any more than the Irish and Polish people would still be thrown off the bus and not allowed in restaraunts."

You didn't get that from me, Linda. I mentioned race only in the context of changes in the Constitution...along with gender and several other items that have caused the Constitution to be altered over the years. And I frankly do not see how Obama has "pushed" racial division.

"VIVA the the CONSTITUTION and long live the country our Founding Fathers promised and gave to us. It has kept us free....it need not be changed."

At what point would you forbid change? Before the first ten amendments (changes), otherwise known as the Bill of Rights? Or maybe before the 13th amendment, which freed the slaves? Or perhaps the 18th, which banned liquor sales? I'm sure you would want to keep the 19th, because it is the one that gives you and me the right to vote.

My point is, of course, that the Constitution is a living, breathing document that has changed and will continue to change according to the needs of the people it governs. It's important to recognize that fact, and to realize that we all have different ideas of what constitutes "good" change and what doesn't. But change will happen, and HAS happened, practically from the day the Constitution was ratified.

It would be interesting to hear someone attempt to defend the "no changes" doctrine as it would affect the Bill of Rights--the statement of some of our most dearly-held principles. Could anyone honestly assert that the original Constitution should NOT have been changed (amended) those first ten times?

Not only will there continue to be changes but there will me issues that divide us.

On any given topic our history has shown a constant 20-30% disapproval even for the most successful issues of the day.

It is the best that we can hope for. Those who are in the minority and are the most passionate will always be the most vocal.

But just because they are in the minority does not mean that they will not one day be proved to be right.

The best minds of the day who were definitely in the majority felt that total deregulation was the answer. Time has proved this strategy to be totally wrong.

NOV

>>>No bigger arena for this current struggle exists than that of the world of Politics. In my life as I look back through all of the Political challenges, I think of those I supported both the winners and the losers. I remember fondly of how both those who won and those who lost demonstrated to us what it is to be American. The losers picked themselves up dusted off and congratulated the Winner. The Winners took time out to reach out to the loser and congratulate them on a battle well fought.<<<

With all due respect, what exactly do you mean by this? Are you talking about specific winners and losers, and, if so, who? If you're thinking we will never have a "loyal opposition" aggressively promoting their policies, I have some land in Florida with only a few alligators on it that I will sell you, cheap.;)

EXCELLENT, Steph S. Great question and start selling the alligators! I think you'll find a lot of Buyers!

I'd like to know the answer to your question as well. That entire statement gives the warm and cushy feeling....somethiing like you get after you sell a house....or your favorite baseball team wins..........or if they lose you all shake hands while mumbling under your breathe.

This is the NEW WORLD.....oops.......ORDER. Did I just say that? Hmm......I wonder how many want to dust themselves off and shake hands to the WINNER over that one! Sorry, when America is going, going.........almost gone.........that statement is just too John Lenin for me. "Imagine all the people.....lalalallalallalaaaaaaaa"

Steph S.,

Thanks for stopping by and your input. I do not know how any one could misinterpret the meaning to that paragraph.

There is no hidden messages nor any particular person or event that it points to.

Clue : Look up civility!

Steph S.,

Thanks for stopping by and your input. I do not know how any one could misinterpret the meaning to that paragraph.

There is no hidden messages nor any particular person or event that it points to.

Clue : Look up civility!

NOV

Herb,

I went back and re-read your post, and I find that your premise and example are so broad, that they are meaningless, except to say that we can all agree that there needs to be more civility....just like we can all agree we should treat grandmothers with kindness.

I know of no recent national election where the loser did not call up the winner and graciously concede. Yet I don't think that's what you are talking about. I am perplexed that you seem to hold the losers to a higher standard, because as I look out at today's political culture, the epithets are flying both ways, and it's futile to try to go back and figure out who hurled one first.

If your intention was to spark a lively discussion, from all sides of the political spectrum, you hit a home run.

>>It is time we once again begin showing the world and ourselves what it is to be American. We should not trash the winner nor should we spend our time trying to convince others that some how our loss was a fluke<< I could not disagree more. It is un-American roll over on the kinds of issues we have confronting us today, and the extremes of both parties could make this country unrecognizable if we did so. We just don't have to keep calling each other Nazis all the time, and as far as I can see, both sides are guilty.

NOV

I am sorry that the post is so broad in nature that it is meaningless to you.

Civility is the broader message and it is a teaching moment perhaps for some. Generations of people grow up with the same messages passed down from previous generations.

Often times those messages are not only wrong but filled with hate and disdain.

My message as previously alluded to in one of my comments stemmed from witnessing a father and his child. The message Don't trash the other side if your a winner reach out and congratulate the other side for a battle well fought. Losers do the same.

There is nothing in my message that suggests that either party give up in there quest. Nor does it suggest that they should not rally and work towards a win on there issues. Only that the loss should be acknowledged and not ignored as a fluke.

Sorry you disagree. However it is very American to take the high road. Many times in the past we have prevailed through perseverance all the while acknowledging the other sides point of view, Not trashing but prevailing through persistents. That is not rolling over!

I find it odd as well that there is to much emphasis placed on " Both SiDES " or BOTH PARTIES ! We are Americans first. As Americans we should not be calling each other a Nazi or using any reference that would suggest that. It is Childish and immediately casts doubt upon the validity of your argument. Funny as well how those who cast those comments always equate their comment as be equal to " the Party of No " Or the Far Right " as if they had equal parity.

NOV

Good post, Herb. Who would have thought that it would invoke such a debate. When I read it, I did not see it as a piece on parties or ideologies. Interesting stuff to read everyones feelings and opinion on this. Thank you