The mood was one of gaiety and laughter as we stood Haunted Houses in Ontario
around in a circle, glasses of wine in hand, trying to outdo one another with ghostly real estate tales.

The setting was one of the office parties my broker at that time, regularly held to recognize the office achievements of his sales representatives.
When it came my turn to tell a story, I decided to relay the events that had occurred at an open house I had held at one of my listings the previous weekend.

There was a hush in our small group as I began my story...

On the previous weekend, I had done an open house at a circa mid 1800s home in one of Ontario's oldest towns.

When I had listed the house, the owner, one of the warmest and nicest women in her seventies I have ever known,  told me the story about Edmund, who she was going to dearly miss when she moved.
Who is Edmund?’, I asked; thinking him to be a neighbour. 
With a somber look in her eye, she told me in an outright fashion, ‘Edmund is the ghost that lives here in the house and has been here since the day we bought it 30 odd years ago.

 Oh?’ ,  I asked as my eyebrows rose in sincere interest.

Yes, he is very mischievous and he and I are friends. He often plays games like flushing the toilet, or moving my papers around from one room to another. ‘ , she said with a twinkle in her eye.

Really?’, I exclaimed, thinking to myself that perhaps she was just saying these things to amuse me.  

She then proceeded to tell me about the history of the house, how rumour had it that the original owner, a blacksmith, had hung himself in the woodshed, which was now the family room, in the late 1800s.

She figured Edmund was this blacksmith’s ghost.  She also said that various members of her large extended family had seen Edmund and that his footsteps were often heard walking around the house.

I finished up my paperwork, had her sign all the documents and drove back home to prepare the listing for turning in to my office first thing in the morning.
I didn’t think much more about her story until one grey, wet Sunday in the fall when I was at the property doing an open house. 

Things were very quiet during the first half hour with no haunted houses in Ontarioprospects turning out in the drizzly rain.
Deciding to go into the living room and read some magazines, I had no sooner sat down when I heard a door open and some footsteps walking across a hall upstairs. 

Suspecting a buyer must have tiptoed by the living room doorway and not known I was here, I decided to go upstairs and investigate.
The second story of the home was not huge, consisting mainly of two bedrooms, a large hallway and a bathroom.

I checked the bathroom and each bedroom, including under the beds and in the closets and, upon  finding no one, I decided I must have been hearing things.

With a bewildered feeling, I returned downstairs and to my spot in the living room where my magazine lay waiting.

I had barely sat back down when I heard the toilet upstairs flush and the loud footsteps above my head once more.
Thoughts of Edmund came to my mind, however I thought to myself  'there is just NO way'.

Surmising that there HAD to be SOMEONE up there, I very quietly snuck back up the stairs.
Pausing at the top landing, I gazed down the hall and towards the open bedroom doors.

Standing very still, I listened for any noises. Nothing.
I checked each wardrobe in the bedroom, under the beds once more, and in the walk-in closet and again checked the bathroom.
No one could be found anywhere.

By now I was beginning to have the sneaking suspicion that Edmund was making his presence known to me.
Feeling a bit foolish, I softly said ‘Hello Edmund.’. 
Then I went back downstairs and finished my reading.

When  the loud footsteps began again upstairs, I ignored them.
On that cold, drizzly fall day, not a single person had attended my open house,  unless you count Edmund, of course.

An agent called me in the last ten minutes and said he was bringing over an offer and asked if he could present it to my seller after the open house.
I told him that would be fine as I knew my seller was coming back as soon as the open house had ended.

As I stood waiting for her in the doorway between the kitchen and the sunroom, I felt a coldness all down one side of my body.
I shivered as I sensed someone standing right next to me.

Moving out of the energy field to escape the uneasy feeling, I felt strong eyes upon me and decided to go outside and wait for my seller to return.
Edmund was getting too close for comfort.

The seller returned, we dealt with the offer, and before leaving I told her I had met Edmund. She seemed quite pleased with this and told me this meant that he liked me.

As I finished my story, I noticed how round and amazed my peers eyes had become.
Since we were a group of close friends and watched out for each other’s interests, one of them asked if I had told our broker about this.
No, I said. I didn’t think I needed to. 
She replied that he would be very interested in hearing this story. I felt rather embarrassed and did not want to tell him. Unfortunately, right at that moment, he approached our group and asked ‘What’s up ladies?

My friend announced ‘Jo has a story to tell you.’.  Well, I guess I now had no choice but to relay the story to him.
Upon hearing the story, he proceeded to ask me if I had told the buyer’s agent who had brought the offer on the property about this. ‘No', I replied, 'I didn’t think I had to.

You most certainly do have to disclose this to the buyer’s representative', he said.

He then told us that a few years previous, a  local brokerage had been sued for not disclosing the facts or knowledge of a haunted house that one of his agents had listed. 
The house was known to be haunted and no one had told the buyers or their agent about this.
The buyers moved in and a succession of very frightening things had occurred.  Eventually they found out that the house was known to be haunted and they proceeded to sue the listing brokerage.

The listing brokerage had lost that lawsuit.

Office policy now dictated that we MUST disclose when one of our listings is known to be haunted to the buyer’s representatives and to potential buyers. 
In my case, it turned out ok. I called the buyer’s representative and informed him of the possibility of a ghost.

It turned out he and his buyers already were aware of the ghost, since they all were local residents and had heard the stories over a course of many years.
The fact that it was haunted did not scare his buyers in the least. On the contrary, there ended up being a bidding war for the property precisely BECAUSE it was known to be haunted.
It seems the ghost was quite a local celebrity .

When listing any property in Ontario, if it is disclosed to the listing representative, by the seller, that it is haunted or otherwise stigmatized, or if it is common knowledge that we are somehow made aware of, then by law we must disclose it to all potential buyers and their agents.
This includes properties where murders/suicides have occurred and any other type of stigmatization that the property may possess.

Do you know the law regarding stigmatized/haunted properties in your province or state?

 

 

©2009JoSmith


Jo-Anne Smith, the author of this article, is a REALTOR® with Brekland Realty Group, Oakville, Ontario and welcomes your real estate inquiries. To contact her, visit www.Oakville-BurlingtonHomes.com

 
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61 Comments on Would You Live in a Haunted House? - Selling Stigmatized Property in Ontario

OCT
31

happy halloween, i would live at the haunted house at disneyland

12:13pm • #1
240,900 Points 9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I love haunted houses, but no we don't have to disclose them here:)  Great ghost story for Halloween!

12:16pm • #2

I just read another post on this very subject - Halloween must be the day to think about ghosts!

My older son lived in a haunted house for a while - actually both of my sons have purchased houses with ghosts. The one Chris had was mischievious and would hide things from him. He said that after searching and searching for something he would stand in the middle of the house and say "OK, you've had your fun, now please put it back." And a few minutes later, the missing object would be right back where it should have been in the first place.

My own family homes have always come with ghosts, which is probably why neither of my kids was bothered by finding them in homes they purchased.

12:19pm • #3
222,021 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Jo-Anne~  I wouldn't have wanted to live there,LOL!  I would disclose anything that I know and then let the buyers decide if it matters to them or not.   Hope you have a Happy Halloween!

12:25pm • #4

A very interesting story.  With the exception of exclusivity, it sounds like Edmund could, otherwise, have a claim to this property through adverse possession.

12:33pm • #5
577,289 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Jo-Anne I am so glad you posted one of your stories today.

 

12:34pm • #6
4 Featured Posts

Great story.  Interestingly it's the opposite here in TN.  We aren't allowed to disclose such issues.  Go figure!

12:48pm • #7
400,863 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Here in Northern Virginia (actually all of Virginia) we don't have stigmatized property disclosure  Karen

1:04pm • #8
157,405 Points 18 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Happy Halloween Jo.

That was a great story.  In NY we do not have to disclose stigmatized properties unless it affects the physical condition of the property. The doctrine of Caveat Emptor usually applies (Buyer beware)

There was a court case about a haunted house where the lower court dismissed the case but the appellate court ruled for the buyer. Apparently everyone in the community knew the folklore that the house was haunted. There were local and national articles that the house had ghosts. The buyer was from out of town not aware of the folklore about the house.

According to the court, "though the doctrine of caveat emptor would normally apply causing seller to have no duty to disclose information about the property, in this case, the most meticulous inspection and search would not reveal the presence of poltergeists at the premises or unearth the property's ghoulish reputation in the community, thus equity would allow buyer the remedy of contract rescission against the seller". The court held.

I guess the court never heard of Ghostbusters lol

1:13pm • #9
110,360 Points 1 Featured Post

We actually have a rental (and have sold it and still rent it for the new Owner) where someone killed himself. No haunting, however. We had one tenant get a littled ticked that we hadn't told him, no one else has cared. In Arizona the law is smething about that we can't be sued for not disclosing a death. I think an active haunting might be different, though. I WOULD disclose that.

1:24pm • #10
212,976 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hi Jo-Ann,  This is a terrific Halloween post and you really are an excellent story teller !

1:40pm • #11
419,394 Points 48 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jo,

...haunted or otherwise stigmatized.  That's so interesting!  I wouldn't mind the "haunt."  (And I vant dat anvil and da tools.)

Mike in Tucson

2:00pm • #12
485,955 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog Hit Router

Jo,

'Oh?' ,  I asked as my eyebrows rose in sincere interest.

I would have given anything to had seen that moment. Happy Halloween to you from Tom and Lars. Thanks for making my day.

2:43pm • #13
2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jo-Anne,

That was certainly a captivating story. Edmund must have approved of the new buyers, are you might have been pushed down the steps! Great photos as well! Thanks for sharing all the details...chilling!

3:03pm • #14
193,771 Points 1 Featured Post

Jo,

 

I don't believe in ghosts, and so I find it strange that I am compelled to pass along "gossip", as if it were the truth.

Brian

4:04pm • #15
237,731 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I have never encountered a ghost, an experience like yours would be amazing, but I'd like to have a buddy with me (besides the ghost).

5:31pm • #17
591,370 Points 82 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Jo-Anne....

Interesting how someone could sue for an unproven stigma. How would you PROVE a haunting? Interesting story, though.

5:37pm • #18
183,038 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Congrats on the feature! And thanx for the story.

It doesn't surprise me that Edmund showed himself to you....the Spirits do seem to love you!:0)-(We humans do too)

6:51pm • #19
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Wayne,

I didn't know there was a haunted house in Disneyland...I bet it's very scary!

Jo

7:09pm • #20
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Courtney,

It's interesting how some states require non-disclosure or leave it up to choice, while others require full disclosure....here in Canada I believe that most provinces require full disclosure.

Jo

7:11pm • #21
587,467 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

On one of the New Orleans Ghost Tours the operator was telling us about the bidding wars on some of the grizzliest haunted properties...

7:24pm • #22

We do not have to report such things.  Nor do we have to report that the previous owner had, or died of, HIV/AIDS.  We do have a new disclosure notifying buyers of the Florida Dept of Law Enforcements website which has a list of all sex offenders living in the state.  We are not required to research or tell them their neighbor is a pedophile but it might be something a client would appreciate

7:51pm • #23
458,171 Points 28 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jo, Of course I loved the story and I know it's true, some people DO want Haunted Houses!  I have been in enough of them (and heard footsteps myself when there was no one there) and I wouldn't be waiting in line for one of these homes.

I think it's sad that many places do not have to disclose everything they know on a property.  One of my clients had signed the papers for her "dream" home and found out the following day someone had committed suicide.  When she called her Real Estate Agent, they told her they knew about it but didn't have to disclose it because a certain amount of time had gone by.

She was so upset (and I honestly don't believe not disclosing this did a thing to help the Realor's reputation).  I'm glad to hear the laws in Ontario are not like that (and loved your story).

8:41pm • #25

oh yeah, not only was that  a great story, but you are a great story teller.

9:09pm • #26
Outside Blog

Thank you for this fun and informative post! Excellent work. I appreciate it.

9:51pm • #27
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor

Hi Jo-Anne,

I would have been running out when I heard the "hard footsteps"... LOL  You are very brave!!!  ;>))

10:46pm • #28
NOV
01

 Hi Jo-Anne! I really enjoyed reading your story!!  In Connecticut, we do not have to disclose information on hauntings, etc..  Although it's my understanding that if asked point blank about something like that, we are supposed to ask the prospective purchaser if that would influence their decision on purchasing the home.  If they answer yes, we should ask them to write their question down, and present it to the seller.  They are then obligated to answer.  You WERE very brave to stay in the house after all that.  I probably would have sat outside, and only gone back in with someone else with me!

8:25am • #29
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor

Hi Jo-Ann,

I think I actually lived in a haunted house in Wisconsin.  I posted about it on my Halloween Blog yesterday.  Sometimes, you can't help but believe when there's no other way to explain things.  Great post and I loved the photos!  If that's the photo of the house...then I would have been totally freaked out.  It's pretty spooky looking!

4:53pm • #30

Great story.  We don't have to disclose stigmatized properties here in AZ either. 

4:59pm • #31
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor

Nice spookey story. I live in an old gold mining region and the spook tales range far and wide. Apparently, the hostile environment of many old mining towns has left a few restless souls who roam the hills always.

6:12pm • #32
106,270 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

That is quite a story!  Disclosing something like haunts sounds strange!  Don't think we have to do that here...?

6:22pm • #33
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Marte,

I loved hearing about your son's haunted house....it sounds like you have many good stories waiting to be told. I'd love to hear more!

Jo

7:19pm • #34
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Vickie,

I'm with you on dislosure....the buyer has every right to know. If they don't believe in ghosts or do but aren't afraid, at least they will have been given the history of the property and can make up their own mind.

Jo

7:21pm • #35
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

LOL, Ron.
I spoke with the owner after she moved to her new property and she told me that Edmund had followed her to her new place, so I guess it was she that he was attached to, not the house...or maybe he now travels back and forth?

((-;

Jo

7:23pm • #36
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Tori,

You aren't 'allowed' ?? That's strange...does that include murders, etc too? I know I would definitely want to know the history of the home I was moving into and would be kind of upset if I found out after moving in that info was withheld from me.

Jo

7:25pm • #38
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Karen,

From what I'm hearing, that seems common in many states. I believe things will change though due to law suits that are being won by distraught buyers.

Jo

7:26pm • #39
Outside Blog

Great story.  I would absolutely live in a haunted house if I liked the house because I know there is no such thing as ghosts, but that is interesting that it can be a positive thing for some buyers looking for a home with a background like that.

8:09pm • #40
210,775 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Jo - What a timely reminder of the need to disclose ... very appropriately posted on Halloween

8:53pm • #41
4 Featured Posts

STIGMATIZED AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY IMPACTED PROPERTIES IN TENNESSEE

The Role and Responsibility of the Real Estate Agent in Disclosing Stigmatized or Psychologically Impacted Properties.

Tennessee Law:  TCA 66-5-207 state "...no cause of action shall arise against an owner of real estate or a real estate licensee for failure to disclose that  an occupant of the subject real property, whether or not such real property is subject to this part, was afflicted with HIV or other disease which has been determined by medical evidence to be highly unlikely to be transmitted through the occupancy of a dwelling place;

or that the real estate was the site of:  An act or occurrence which had no effect on the physical structure of the real property, its physical environment or the improvements located thereon; a homicide, felony or suicide,."

An agent does not disclose any information about Stigmatized or Psychologically Impacted Properties without the written authorization of the property owner.  Without authorization, the agent's response to any questions about Stigmatized or Psychologically Impacted Properties should be -"Tennessee Law prohibits me from answering that question".

Crazy huh!?!?

9:09pm • #42
202,239 Points 19 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Just like Tori above, we have a statute that specifically exempts from disclosure stigmatized properties where the property is stigmatization due to homicide, suicide, etc.  We have sold units in a hospital and church and have yet to see, hear or feel the presence of ghost.

10:24pm • #43
NOV
02
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

hi Mitchell,

How are you?
I enjoyed your story about the haunted house case....it seems to be such a gray area everywhere, afterall, how can one prove a house is haunted?

Jo

12:55pm • #44
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

hi Prest Realty,

I find it interesting that you don't have to disclose a suicide in Arizona (or in many states, for that matter). I believe a lot of buyers/renters would really like to know before signing a lease/AGP&S.

Jo

12:58pm • #45
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

hi Tombo,

I would loved to have had you and Lars along the day I did that open house....

i hope you both had a nice Halloween and Lars didn't get into the candy kisses.

(-;

Jo

1:02pm • #48
NOV
03
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Brian,

I agree....how can ghosts be proven? However, I guess if a house has a reputation for certain strange 'goings on', the potential buyers would like to know ahead of time. I know I sure would!

Jo

7:07am • #50
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ann,

A buddy would have been nice....at least it would have been someone to talk with!

Jo

7:08am • #52
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lane,

It's strange how so many people are drawn to haunted houses....to the point of bidding wars.

Jo

7:10am • #55
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Daniel,

If we know of certain things with regards to the house or the neighbourhood, then we are obligated to disclose them here in Ontario. This is good for buyers....not always so good for the sellers.

Jo

7:12am • #56
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Carole,

Not telling your buyer client things that you know about a house that might affect her/his decision to live there is negligent, in my books. That agent certainly wasn't looking out for her client's better interests.

Jo

7:15am • #58
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

JoAnn,

That's a good policy to have...at least then the buyer finds out what they want to know directly from the Sellers themselves.

Jo

7:17am • #60
NOV
15
211,638 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Amy,

That's not a picture of the actual house. The actual house is smaller and all red brick.

Thanks for stopping by!

Jo

8:24pm • #61

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Jo-Anne Smith- Oakville, Burlington and Mississauga Region Real Estate, Ont

Oakville, ON

More about me…

Brekland Realty Group

Address: 482 South Service Road East, Suite 109, Oakville, ON, L6J 2X6

Office Phone: (905) 285-0343

Cell Phone: (613) 922-5978

Email Me

As a REALTOR® with over 14 years of experience working in the real estate field, it never ceases to amaze me how much more there is to learn. Here on my blog you will find not only real estate articles, but also stories about life and the beautiful region that I live in.

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