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A Petition to AR - In the Hopes That Common Decency Prevails...

I have seen all kinds of posts on AR that made the hair on the back of my neck stand; heck, I have probably written some that had the same effect on others. This morning, though, I woke up to the most shameful display of indecency. The post in question has thankfully been removed in short order - but the impact remains. It was a petition to have two members of Active Rain removed from this network, ostensibly, in the quest for civility.

Some of you have seen it. Some of you have even signed it.

Few things surprise me on here anymore, but I must say I found it strange that some of the signers of this petition were the same people who rallied behind the only member I am aware of who's account on AR was terminated by the staff. Same people screaming ‘freedom of speech' every time they believe their voices are being silenced. Some of these folks, while we always disagreed, I even respected, until now. That includes the author of the post.

Call me old-fashioned, but I have this fundamental belief that there can be no civility without decency; I believe also that when one gets the hang of their very first TV remote or car radio, they learn to change the channel, should programming disagree with their preferences. Few of us would pick up the phone and scream bloody murder at the movie director for having disliked it. Fewer still would try to get the director or the actors fired for it.

So here we are, supposedly all adult enough to drive, drink and BLOG. For some of us, this network brought business. For others, we are a few friends richer for having joined. A few real or virtual friends who get us is no small feat either.

But I think it's safe to assume that those of us who contribute content to AR on a regular basis have invested quite a bit of time, energy and talent. It's safe to assume that we have established an emotional connection to people in the groups we post to. It's probably safe to assume that we all CARE if we stay or go, for our own reasons.

So here is my little petition to AR: let us assume that we are, indeed, adults, and do not reward those who click the "FLAG" button at the slightest provocation or incite the community to have members they dislike banished. Let's all learn to just change the channel, if we object to a specific poster's personality or opinion. Last I checked, no one is holding a proverbial gun to any of our craniums and forcing us to read that which offends us. And for those who are easily offended, grow thicker skin or talk about puppies. Anything else will inevitably give you heartburn, and make those of us who take the whole freedom of expression thing rather seriously not want to engage in conversation with you on any topic.

Lastly, while I agree that personal insults of any kind have no place on this platform, or any other for that matter, I, for one, would hate to see our ability to speak freely on subjects that we are passionate about stifled. I have seen quite a few posters here proclaim that as a right. Most rights come with responsibilities. So by all means, delete comments that offend you, voice your dissent, if you so choose, but grow up some. What you believe is your right to free expression is the same right by which any one of us can disagree with you, and it has to remain that way. Tolerance for opinions that are contrary to your own is the gold in freedom of expression's currency. It is also a fundamental mark of honor and decency.

Let's all do the honorable thing and lay off the ‘flags', because at the end of the day, on the receiving end of you clicking that button is a human being you probably don't know. Because one day that human being can be you... And lastly, because it makes you a vindictive bully in the eyes of those who matter - your peers.

cause i rock...

Posted by Inna Hardison-ha media group Design, Printing, Web on 11/04/2009 01:23 PM

Comments (110)

Blogging in the Rain in the ActiveRain Channel

lay off the flags, ar petition, grow up, i have the right to you not reading my opinion, civility without decency is cheap

Post is included in group: Dissent
Post is included in group: Silent Majority
Post is included in group: Proud to be a Liberal
Post is included in group: Politics And Real Estate
Post is included in group: Blatant Politics

110 Comments on A Petition to AR - In the Hopes That Common Decency Prevails...

NOV

Inna, I saw that other petition and I would hope that the ActiveRain Gods will allow free speach and common sense to prevail. I find the "back-arrow" so useful when I find myself somewhere I don't want to be:)

Inna - I did not see the post, the comments, the petition or who signed it ... even if I had I know it is not for me to judge ... even though I would if I saw it. I do believe there are better ways to manage issues and situations that upset us or that we disagree with. Delete buttons and remotes were created for the exact purpose you described ... we would all be better served by using them. Some indeed need to grow up and grow thicker skin ... making others wrong for their opinion that does not align with our own ... we see far too much of that ... and is what wars are all about . We certainly have enough wars taking place ... we don't need them in the Rain. I commend you for writing this post ... and encouraging peace.

Sounds like the same old place but I've been absent for awhile so I don't know the current members of the Holier Than Thou Club...

Charles - it would appear the AR gods removed that post, so there is that hope that common sense holds some value:-) I am with you on the 'back arrow' thing-

Kathleen - thank you for a well thoughout reply. We all already have options to read what we want and ignore the rest. I am hoping we all start using our 'remotes' more:-) But should we find ourselves engaged in a heated exchange - I hope that we are adults enough to "take it outside", if you will, instead of run to the phone and call authorities. Childish, silly and potentially hurtful to a whole lot of people.

Dan - i don't believe those names have changed, Dan:-)

Inna,

As always beautifully expressed and words only one could hope to captivate on paper...

I am So bewildered and befuddled by this event .

No matter how much we dislike the comments of anyone found in this wee tiny space formed in minute moments in the vast expanse of ones entire life...... it is sad that any one of us can pass such Complete JUDGMENT on another person's entire life NOT realizing that their is a Living Human Being behind the few words found here...

I am a Mother, a Daughter, a Grandmother, an Aunt, a Friend, a Lover, a Christian, a Realtor, a Professional, a co-worker, a giver and a taker, ... I am many things to hundreds, if not thousands of people....

It is sad that ONE person took the time to persecute me so publically for distasteful comments i made in a sometimes very distasteful forum.....

My son is a member of AR as he is a Builder in California.. I can only say I am thankful he never comes in to the Political Goups... also my Broker of 6 years at RE/MAX is a member and I am thankful that he does not read the political posts as this could have resulted in even far more truma for me than it already has.

I am not a Victim here.. I refuse to be... I feel extremely sorry for the person who wrote the Post and for the four people who signed it..

They are the True victims in all of this.. Victims of their own hatred for two people they have never met.

Linda Mae - I am glad you brought up some of the other possible personal and professional reprecussions of one's name being found malaigned in print, whether rightly or not so much... We all bleed the same colous, and we all ache in all the same places when hurt, at least I think we do:-)

You are right though, you are not a victim unless you let yourself be one. And for that, i am glad.

PS: There were, sadly, more than four signatures.

Bravisimo! My life has been so much better since I got away from those groups. I'm sure theirs are better to. The sooner you realize that you can't rationalize with a man who's every 3rd word is communist or America hating liberals, the better off you'll be.

Inna - While I had some reservations signing such a petition, these so called victims have perpetrated much defamation and character assassination on certain people with opposing views - calling some members homophobes, racists and such and even posted a post that said she gave names to various groups that would inflict great harm to those who had views different than their liberal ones.

I have nothing against contrary views, every one has them, but few stoop so low as to viciously attack like these two have.

We have disagreed, we banter, we debate and perhaps even we don't care for one another, but I have always been respectful to you, with a little kidding of course, and so have you.

We try to have fun, sometimes it gets heated but so does life in general.

When I hear their defense, its like a perpetrator blaming the victim, and personally it makes my skin crawl.

It sounds like I got lucky enough to miss this one... I only know it's uncalled for and unprofessional. I'm very surprised by it, but I guess I should not be surprised by anything anymore.

Inna,

When you were being rahter visciously attacked who was one of the first to come to your aid. Oh Yeah me. Listen did I overreact sure, I wrote Bob that I pretty much didn't care if he took it dow or whayever his decisionwas I would abide by it even if it means I,m gone. But I am always consistent I have been trying to get themto take down one post for weeks. When myself Nick and Bonnie were named in a maliscious post I didn't see any great hoards of defese coming to our rescue. I shouldn't have broken my own ruke but I was making a point. I probably should have left one of the names out because I allowed something personal to carry over. You me and her know who that is.

Anyway you know I have spent alot of my time onAR coming to the defense of others this time it was for the defense of myself.

I,m off for at least the next 8 hours have fun

Inna, thank you for your post. When you have 164,000 members in an organization which allows free expression its surprising that a whole lot more problems haven't arisen. Charlie Gantz, Greenwood, IN; J.D., M.B.A.; owner/principal broker, Atlas Commercial Real Estate, LLC

Nogui - glad to know walking away from certain groups is working for you.:-)

Nicholas - but you see - they are all just words. You remember full well certain words that your friend BB used, with some degree of regularity. A lot of people on here, including me, thought them beyond inapproapriate and rather hateful, yet I would never dream of rallying for his removal. What you have done is hypocritical, at best, and indecent at worst. (the you goes for the 7 or nine commenters and the author, of course).

Inna

I certainly do not want to take from the Real subject matter of this post BUT once again i am being maligned in a forum of my peers that could be read by my local Professional co workers and it is imperative that i ask Nick to refrain from malicious slander that could be detrimental to my financial livelihood

Inna his comment "I have nothing against contrary views, every one has them, but few stoop so low as to viciously attack like these two have". is indeed grounds for a Lawsuit ..this is a REAL ESTATE website of my professional peers.. Over 5,000 members in close local proximately to me......

I do not care what Anyone says to me or about me when it follows a thread where all can read the supported dialog but to throw this out in to a forum where no one can see anything but his accusation is slander.

I am the first to admit my food fight with One member in a Post that is no longer on AR because AR removed it because of it's homophobic content and yes it got way out of control BUT Nick can not find one more instance of his accusation against me anywhere since my return to Ar this year.

Again i am NOT the victim here... period.....

Inna - I think Hugh was wrong. I name him because he named himself. However, I do understand the frustration that lead him to a place I personally would have preferred he hadn't gone.

Disagreement is fine. It can be done with honor and respect. You and I both know that's true. The problem is that some people have no idea where the line is. They name people; they threaten at least to call brokers; they start entire web sites about other people and those who have been their victims look on and wonder two things - HOW and WHY. For me it's no big deal. I have a thick skin and am a big boy. For others the nature of the personal attacks are extremely hard to take. WHY? Because we are all different. I balled my eyes out at the end of Marley and Me but call me a racist homophobe and I just laugh. For others the accusations in print have an effect on them equal to the effect Marley and Me had on me. No one should be made to feel like that because a couple of bullies feel it is their right to treat people like dirt.

Chris - lucky indeed it is that you missed it. :-)

Charles Gantz - sometimes I, too, am surprised that it's not worse than it is... It's the indecency that gets me - the insults and all that dosn't bother me...:-) I guess it's simply a human condition, in life and in this little bit of virtual universe.

Hugh - I will simply say that I am saddened by what transpired, and leave it at that. I wish you had chosen a different way of hadling this.

My Dear Linda - Nick in his comment did not use either anyone's names, so I am letting it stand. The post in question is removed, so except for those who've already seen it, there was no way to make that connection, until your latest comment on here. If you want to protect the identities of those involved I would recommend that you modify your comment accordingly.

I did not see the "offending" post... but I, too, am a believer in free speech.

If you don't like what you're reading... feel free to move on. Feel free to boycott my blog. Feel free to tell your friends the same... but I cannot imagine what offense must occur, for them to even consider disconnecting a blogger from the network.

Inna - Point well taken, and let me tell you that I didn't always agree with the words BB used as well, neither did I defend them, but I did defend his right to say them. Having said that, he never named names nor threaten to call various groups to harass and defame anyone or cause anyone harm either financially or physically. Say what you will about his beliefs, but he would also defend anyone else's right to free speech. It is a shame others do not have the same stance on free speech.

Simon - I guess it's how we handle those difficult situations that makes us who we are. I am glad that you didn't take part in that post, and that regardless of ANY differences of opinions, you are able to hit that ignore button, or walk away, largely unscathed. I know we are all different, but I can't for the life of me undestand why such extreme measures are at times resorted to. No matter how emotionally tied up any of us can get in our bickering - publically soliciting sigs for banning someone is crossing all kinds of lines, for me anyway. I have lost quite a bit of respect for everyone involved on that post.

All of this saddens me. All of it. I know that the tone of alot of these posts and the way people treat each other is one of the reasons that I read less here than I used to, and post less. I find I "change the channel" more frequently in the last couple of months then I ever had to do before.

Alan - ditto. I highly doubt you ever gave anyone reason to boycott your blog though :-)

Here we go. Linda - please remove my name from your post. Or maybe you were referring to "another Simon" again?

Inna,

What a wonderful heartfelt post. You are the Mother Teresa of ActiveRain. Your impartiality and decency are exemplary.

The advice in comment #18, sounds like good advice to me.

Inna- Call Bob Stewart and ask him to reinstate my Nebraska blog. It was basically me attemping to defend myself against something that happened on another blog. Everyone on AR that is in favor of free speech should do the same thing.

Inna - Respect? At least this post was open and everyone understood the reason why the petition was posted.

What happened to BB was in done secret with campaigned flagging and emails to AR corporate, without BB ever having the chance to defend himself.

These few who were mentioned in the post are the ones who do things in secret as well as openly posting harassing comments and posts, always causing trouble without reservation, flagging and naming names in slander against the guidelines of Active Rain.

It is a shame that these few continue to do such things without remorse, but when confronted they always have the playing the victim complex.

Kris - this saddens me too... I hope we can all move beyond this, or find our own ways of dealing with being offended that don't threaten anyone's reputation or livelihood... Thank you for your comment.

Ross - I was surprised,yet glad to see you voice your dissent on that post, though of course it was removed.

Kevin - I don't have a dog in that fight. To be frank - I thought that post was inappropriate on too many levels to go into. But you already know that. I believe it deserved to be removed. Having said that, if your membership here was at stake over it - I would speak up for you in a heartbeat.

Inna,

You just think you know so I am not surprised you were surprised.

Linda - I removed a duplicate comment by you at #31.

Inna- I see how it works now. Freedom of Speech applies to those we agree with. Got it. What was the point of your blog again?

Linda - Once again - please remove my name at #20 and the entire comment all about me at #30.

Ross - fair enough.

Kevin - why don't you read the post again. The way I see it - there is a huge difference between having your post removed (for I believe calling out specific members of this community, whether jokingly or not) and actively and publically trying to get AR to remove certain members from the site. I hope it's clear enough now.

PS: this has very little to do with freedom of speech per se, as it doesn't ever really apply to privately owned sites. This has everything to do with how we CHOOSE to handle our battles, disagreements et al. I think starting a petition for removal os one's account is absolutely the wrong way to handle it.

Why is it that some people just refuse to understand? I find it very frustrating to say the least. In reference to #36.

To All - I will not be removing any comments on this post except for duplicates or comments that are actual personal insults.

The same person who is crying slander said she has turned people into federal agencies and advocated calling the employer of people who do not agree with her!

There is medication for this im sure.

Inna- I agree with you on the private thing. AR owns this baby and can do what they want. My problem is this: If I say something bad about you. mentioning your name or simply implying it to anyone paying attention, my blog is in violation. If my blog is allowed to stay up, you should have every opportunity to defend yourself. Read these:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/1309305/is-online-stalking-of-fellow-ar-members-ok-with-you-

http://activerain.com/blogsview/1303580/how-to-run-off-active-rain-members-in-five-quick-statements

They are about me. My name is not mentioned but quite a few folks knew who they were about. I wrote two blogs to defend myself, one serious and one humorous. One was removed by AR and the other by me at AR's request. Why are two blogs that take my comments out of context, and make me look bad, allowed to remain, and my act of defending myself in a blog format, must be removed. Some of us on AR have had it with the people who cant take the heat and must get everyone and everything thrown off that they do not agree with.

If you want to take care of business, have AR throw those two blogs off. It certainly looks like someone is calling me out and you agree that is wrong and should be deleted. Or, allow me to defend myself!

Larry,

NEVER have i said anywhere that ANYONE should have their Broker called NEVER... I did on one occasion send your post and the comments to a Hate Crimes Against Gays Website to see if they felt it deserved further attention.. Here is the link

Even as much as you know i hated your post bashing gays I NEVER would have wanted to see AR suspend or remove you.. as much as i detest a certain member in that comment thread I NEVER would have wanted to see her suspended or removed..

I have since done as Inna suggests ..stay away from the both of you...No Red Flags .. no fights.. just change the chanel....and ignore you both..

try it ..it is refreshing.......

I am not ashamed of anything. My posts are in public for all to see. having said that, you have named me in #20 and reprinted my words at #30. Neither one of those things has anything to do with this post. For the LAST time - please remove mentions of my name. I have asked nicely.

Larry - I was not aware that the member in question having done something you believe to be abhorent renders civility or decency towards that member unnecessary. Strange concept of relative morality here.

Kevin - you and I have been on the opposing ends of that fence somewhat recently. We managed to resolve whatever that was. I do think that you should be able to defend yourself if you were indeed a victim of libel. When that ability is taken away from you, by all means, pick up the phone and call the powers that be.

By the same token - asking AR to remove members from the network is a lousy way to get heard.

Hey look at post #43 everyone- Linda Mae said she turned me into a hate crimes website!

Linda Mae- What comment did you turn me into a hate crimes against gays website? I would like to know what I could have said to have you TURN ME INTO A FREAKING HATE CRIME WEBSITE?

Linda Mae and Larry H - I ask you to take your conversation elsewhere. This serves no purpose.

You got it Inna, I didnt mean to hijack your blog. Linda Mae I will be here: http://activerain.com/blogsview/1320188/ar-silent-majority-members-turned-into-hate-crimes-against-gays-website-

Larry- Can you say A-T-T-O-R-N-E-Y ? Geez! And the lefties say we are nuts. That is insane. Purely insane.

Inna,

I fail to see the reason behind coddling anyone on this post. This is your post and you do have the right and responsibility to monitor the comments so that your blog post does not cause the AR staff undue pressure on their resources. Woman/Man up to your responsibility

Larry - thank you for that.

Ross - I assure you what you see here is not "coddling", but then again, you don't know me well enough to know that.

Inna,

Yes, you are correct, I do not know you very well. I see comments posted and requests made and no action taken.

Ross - if you look again, you'll note that those commets have, in fact, been removed by the author a while ago. #20 was modified and #30 completely removed.

So what are you referring to?

Inna,

I see some action was taken by who I do not know but action was taken.

Linda- Who is your broker?

Ross - as i said, the commens were removed by their author.

Inna, once again you have proven your ability to make an observation and eloquently speak!

Excuse me if I detract for just one second, Kevin, your Nebraska blog was the first to be posted , it was NOT a post defending yourself against two others here. I would remind you that all blogs are dated, and had your two remained, the dates would have been proof, that your blog appeared first. Just setting the record straight if I may.

Terry- Nice try. You wrote your 5 things on 10/26 in the morning. I wrote Nebraska on 10/27 in the afternoon. I rcvd. lots of emails right after it came out. Still have them to prove it.

I will print them here for anyone who needs it. And if that is not enough for anyone, I will email Bob to get the AR official record.

Inna,

I apologize for any part I played in this free for all food fight... and i also apologize for dissapointing you in my search for what constitutes crossing over the line in regards to Gay bashing.... I am far from perfect I am a mere human with opinions... my own... good, bad or indifferent......

It is unfortunate that it always turns in to this.....

I appreciate your post and the forum you opened even to me such a lowly despicable human being according to the "right'

I give up........

Linda- Who is your broker?

"I did on one occasion send your post and the comments to a Hate Crimes Against Gays Website to see if they felt it deserved further attention"..said the above commentor.

Then the commentor said she had never had any intention of getting anyone thrown off AR or banned?

What's worse getting banned by AR or seeing if a hate crimes against gays website can further investigate someone?

This is the commenter's defense of maligning and calling someone a homophobe and a racist?

I am American Indian. I think that I will start sending peoples names to the ACLU and the Southern Poverty Law Center to see if there is anything that they can do. Go ahead and disagree with me will you?

Kevin - Are you a Seminole fan? Do you take offense at all those football teams using the American Indians as a team name?

Nick-Yeah man. That is so stupid. I still do not know of any of my peeps who get offended. It is always the guilty feeling libs who have never been to our land and dont know any of us. BS artists is what they are.

Don't start on my Seminoles! We are having a bad enough time this year as it is!! And now with one of my daughters at FSU I have had the privilege of seeing how much we suck up close and personal! :)

Seminoles is a bad name. Should have picked a different regional tribe.

Kev - write to Bobby Bowden and tell him that! Maybe our luck would change? Maybe you could come to the next home game and ride that horse out into the center? I think they use a student with a wig! *lol*

Simon- I'm a Hornet. Can't be a traitor.

Terry - thank you...

Linda Mae - I don't recall saying anything that would have warranted your last comment to me, at least not on this blog. As for the other blog - i believe i stated my opinion to all present there, has nothing to do with you, or even with who is right. Neither one of us may be right in the end. My lines are in a differrent place, that's all. But I certainly didn't mean to demean or insult you in any way. So if I did - I am sincerely sorry.

All: I am not even entertaining the last dozen or so comments, but would sincerely urge anyone jumping in on this post to STAY ON TOPIC, please.

"Can't we all just get along?"

Rodney King

Okay, wait a minute,where is this petition? Maybe we can send these offensive people to Maine...

how much work did we get done today? lol

Flag who are you?????

Aaron - great choice of pic - thx...

PS: I got quite a bit of work done today. It took me 12 minutes to write this post, then about 2 or so to post it... Other than that - work:-)

Russell - what do you have against Maine? :-)

Jane- do what everyone else has done. Pick up the phone and call me. My number is posted on my site. I promise that I will not change my number anytime soon. Call me. I do not bite. I get lots of calls everyday from business associates and potential clients. As for my picture, I have sent it to a few people on here.They know what I look like. Just for the record, people are what they say and do, not what they look like. So anyways, call me.

Kevin gives great phone! And he looks exactly like his picture!

What? The Nebraska post is gone? All I really remember from that thread is that it turned into a bunch of girl talk and banter. And a wonderful little story about june bugs. I must have missed something there.

When I first started reading the political blogs on this site, it was out of an expectation that there would be a lot of discussion among professionals that I could learn from. Now, the only reason I find myself returning is to find out how far humanity has sunken into the sewer.

Personal insults may provide some short term gratification for the person hurling the zinger. But any gratification derived is satisfaction of an unwholesome urge. The insult does nothing to further your argument. If anything, it makes your ideological opponent dig in deeper, and casuses the casual reader to question your ability to construct a coherent argument.

It is a waste of time debating issues with those who agree so closely with your views that all responses to your blog are bobbleheaded 'attaboys'.

Inna - I don't know why you keep putting yourself through this.

Somewhere, there must be a study which confirms my suspicion that blogging inflates one's ego exponentially with each post. Blogging must certainly convince us of our own self righteousness and encourage recklessness when it comes to other people's well being, opposing opinions and other's personal feelings, if one even dares to enter onto this platform that little excess baggage. Third party data must certainly indicate where bloggers insist they are expert judges of character, expert witnesses, as well as infallible in their assessments, of well, whatever it is they are currently discussing.

But, how can any of us believe we are the preferred inhabitants and arbiters of this space? I dislike so many of you, at least in print. But that alone does not put me higher or lower on the totem pole of belonging. It merely signals to me where and how often I choose to either partake, or refuse your offerings.

Good evening, Inna. Just want to say hi to Patrick. Yes, Patrick that particular post was gone, all because a person can't come out to say boo to Kevin. Thanks, Inna!

Hi Yolanda! How long you think before AR nukes these political blogs altogether? I give it one or two days, tops.

Michelle - I have always been impressed with your prose. This time, however (#79) I'm not quite sure I get the message you are conveying. This is not a criticism of your writing. As I said, I genuinely do enjoy your style. I don't always get Shakespear either.

You're getting flagged for this one...

ok, actually I have never flagged a political post, only those that are plagarized.

Patrick, it is rather tongue in cheek, at least the first paragraph. I always wonder if bloggers, and those on AR in particular, were always as free wheeling with themselves and what they had to say. I believe that publishing your opinions, your thoughts and some specialized, limited knowlege in black and white can lead our egos astray, as well as revoke our sense of reality as to how significant we and our expressed opinions really are. I believe, that in some ways it makes us a bit like mini demagogues.

Regarding the second paragraph, my opinions, my like or dislike of anyone here, does not and should not allow me or anyone to puff up and scoot someone else into a non-existant position on this platform. For those of whom I don't care for, at least in print, it's my issue, and it's my issue to solve, mend or ignore. But what does mystify me, personally, is how did John Secor get suspended and the indiviudal who created this petition blog does not receive the same banishment?

Hope Inna doesn't mind, this will be my last comment here.

Patrick, that will be sad if what you say happens. I'm new on the political scene here, so perhaps I have a fresher perspective. Many seem to have forgotten that we're guests here and even more basic is there seems to be a break down in common courtesy and civility. I hope it was worth it.

NOV

Michelle - Thanks for putting it into simpler lingo for me. I think I agree with you. As far as John Secor getting suspended while others did not, I suppose it's similar to the drunk driver who gets pulled over. There are probably twenty other drunks who whiz by while the cops are busy with the one unfortunate. But that does not absolve the one who yanked.

Yolanda - It's starting to make 'The Lord of the Flies' look tame.

Inna - WHy do you keep putting yourself through this?

It seems these people who cause all the trouble,slandering us with names of homophobes when we have Gay relatives we love, are being tolerated by A/R in a pity act or politically correct stand and they are abusing us and abusing society's tolerance of their behavior...If the Silent Majority members behaved as they have we would have been banned like BB.

We would have much peace if those people were banned and their behavior had consequences from the beginning. I can not figure why a/r tolerates their behavior.

Mary: You really don't want to start down this road, do you?

::shaking head:: This place used to be fun. Now it seems you have a bunch of adults acting like spoiled little children on a playground..with the name calling, the flagging, and the banning, and the you started it, no you did...and the you are worst than us attitude.. People, people, you are all adults here, do you forget that? Alot of these posts are public, does anyone stop and think for a minute how it appears to the general public? It all looks nasty, just plain nasty, no matter what side of the fence your on. Do you think they care who called who what 5 posts ago? Man take it off-line, act like adults and try to remember why you started blogging here in the first place.

btw - Nice post My Inna...and I agree with it MWA

Patrick - so you have a problem with Nebraska post being gone (the post with not so veiled personal insults, really), and yet you have absolutely NO PROBLEM with SM member's petition to AR to remove two members from the network? Interesting...

As to your question, "putting myself through what ecactly?

Yolanda - I have no probelm with you using this space to say Hi to anyone. That being said, I'd like to ask you the same question I asked Patrick.

Lane - I promise you I don't plagiarize:-)

Michelle - I guess having the safety of not being face-to-face gives one the feeling of infallibility... Sad it is when we resort to certain silliness just to have the last word or to appear to be that which we are not. Everyone who signed that petition is and the one who authored it have my deepest sympathies for being the children that they are, but so does every blogger on here from both sides who routinely emails, calls, or flags to any authority, AR included, to intervene on their behalf.

...what can i say...

Mary - did you sign the petition?

and are you serious?

My Sandra - thank you dearest for being the voice of reason... Maybe some will heed your gentle song:-) MWA to you...and yes, it used to be fun. I miss that.

Inna - To answer your question, I do indeed have a problem with the petition to drive members from this site. I agree with you. As to the Nebraska post, I guess the insults just sort of blend together for me these days. I don't remember much about it other than the banter in the later comments.

You keep trying to referee a game in which nobody is following the rules. On one level, I admire you for it. On another, I can only shake my head and wonder why.

Patrick - fair enough. As for my rather voluntary involvement in this - I guess it takes a while for some to learn the rules and it's only a matter of habit of following them from that point on. I am simply hoping that happens before any other damage is done to any human being:-)

Inna - I signed the petition under a variety of pen names:)

Frankly, I didn't think that post was the way to handle things and voiced my opinion on that matter.

I believe my name was mentioned on the other post, the Nebraska one. I don't recall whining about it, though. I just figured that the author knew I was corn fed as a child;)

Jason - so does it mean that you signing it under a pen name was your way of voicing your disagreement with it?

Pretty much, yeah. I was trying to add a bit of humor to a situation that I felt could turn into a debacle real fast.

While better left ignored, I knew the post wouldn't be and some would actually think it a good idea.

Sardi - fair enough....

Peace-

Inna - I am lucky enough to have missed some of the recent fireworks. I continue to contribute content to the political groups - but I do not read them as reliably as I once did because is doesn't seem to be as much fun as it used to be.

Your post here is beautifully written and is noteworthy on a human, professional and emotional level. I thank you for sharing these thoughts with all of us. It seems to me that the quality of your post should be obvious and beyond objection. But I note from some of the comments that my opinion is not universally shared (imagine that). That is their loss, I guess. I should have enjoyed the moment created by your post and not bothered to read the comments.

I participated at length in the defense of Bill Burris (producing content quantity if not content quality in his defense). I did so not because I agreed with everything Bill said but because his opinions were his and I believe he had a right to hold and express his beliefs. I mention Bill by name because he provided a significant body of content to AR concerning the mortgage field and was a constructive builder of Active Rain including the founding of the Silent Majority group where I am writing now. The views that some found objectionable were a small part of his body of work here. And, I found the specific incident cited by AR management was not, in my view, sufficient to bring about the result that followed.

I have commented recently on my recommendations to resolve these situations - and my view here seems to mirror my political philosophy. I believe that the authors of posts and the moderators of the groups should enforce the minimal level of discipline necessary to impose an appropriate level of order. A free market approach, to coin a phrase. I would try to resolve all issues in the groups to avoid the AR gods from feeling that they need to establish a stronger degree of regulation. The staff and management have a different responsibility and perspective. They must be sure that the playground is always safe for children. They have a requirement to protect all of their subscribers and their investment in the universe that we all play in. They have the absolute power to make their own decisions for their own reasons and to solve the problem as they perceive it to protect their interests first and our participation second. I understand the rules and will be content with the metaphor to broader issues that we may discuss on another day.

I continue to believe that an effort to silence the opportunity of others to express their thoughts is wrong. Freedom of speech (as a concept - not saying that the 1st Amendment applies to a private page in the bluenowhere) is, I believe, perhaps the most fundamental right of "We the People". The tradition of freedom of speech was not nurtured and protected all these years in our culture to protect the right of people to say things that we like to hear. It is there to protect the right of people to say things we don't like. But with all freedoms come responsibilities. The failure of some of our members to remember the responsibilities thing is a problem we need to solve, but not a reason to invoke the regulatory powers of AR.

By the way, I followed the link to your new site - love it. Compliments to you and Jon.

I agree. If someone really doesn't like what is being said, you can simply ignore them or block them.

I wouldn't expect that you do... There aren't many that do. I can barely remember the last time I flagged a post, not for feature.

NOV

And the beat goes on. As do I. Just not here so much lately. I don't know who I hold in greater disdain; the willfully ignorant who vehemently disagree with my politics, or the wild eyed loons who regrettably defame my views with their agreement. I have come to respect the thought and reason behind the argument more than the actual position taken. Can't really work myself up over such things these days, though. Too much water under my personal bridge to respond to conjured, virtual floods. Grown men and women barking at each other in Pavlovian frenzy at the shake of a bell from some person or another on the other side of the continent that they have never met, and likely never will. My wife and I lost a baby last month. Who the hell cares about what some schmoe in an online forum said? Let alone take time away from business or family to address. This is how some choose to indulge their free time? The idea that anyone could have the time or inclination to spawn a "Remove Blogger X" campaign from an online platform is a rather sad commentary on said person's priorities. Surely there are more productive pursuits for those apparently limitless extra hours in the day.

NOV

Paul,

My Heart, My Tears and my Prayers go out to you and your wife....There is No other tragedy as great as the loss of a child...

May God Bless you both with His peace as you continue to grieve......

Late to these comments, my apologies.

Ted - your words of wisdom, if heeded, could bring us back to a place far removed from the sandbox it has become. Thank you for always having the courage and decency to be on the side of basic fairness, and having the wisdom and patience to reason with the unreasonable.

My Dear Paul - right you are, on all counts... I am finding myself venturing into these waters less and less, as too often I find myself smelling of swamp gas and gasping for air. I am glad for the very few people I met here that I genuinely care about. The few whose joys and pains I willingly share in. I am glad for you, my friend. Hugs-

Linda - well said.

All - let the sleeping dogs lie...

NOV

Inna, Congratulations on a well well post, and a very well controlled environment. I commend you also for pulling away from the pack and becoming once again your own person.

I look forward to some good discussions and debates with you in the future. We don't always have to agree on topics, but just because we don't agree, doesn't mean we can't act civil to one another.

Paul Slaybaugh - I'm sorry for your loss, please accept my condolences.

Bob - As far as I know, I've always been my own person:-) Thanks you for dropping by... The environment is the doing of the commenters, though.

NOV

Jeez, sorry I missed all this. It does seem that not much has changed in the last few months. Great post Inna, I wish people were more able to find the common ground we share instead of arguing over differences. We know who is responsible for that, and it really isn't anyone on this site.

Divided we fall.

NOV

Hi beautiful Inna! I missed all the commotion and I am glad. I have no taste for the fight anymore. You can't teach common decency if it's not there and you can't teach common sense. I'm with Paul. We all have real issues in our lives that command our attention and this trivial political sniping doesn't do anyone any good. I'm trying to find common ground or I am not commenting. I ventured over to someones post and disagreed with everything in it but one thing. So I commented on the one thing I found that I could say nicely. It worked for me. xxoo to you my friend.

NOV

Jen - I am late to this, so my apologies... Thank you for your right-on comment. We do know, indeed, who is responsible, don't we... I just hope we are not irrevocably ruined as a people in the end. I hope we find that bit of grace and soon.

My Susan - thank you dahling. It's a good thing you missed it, truly. In the end, we gain nothing with the pettiness, and do lose ourselves in the process. MWA-

NOV

wow...........lots of words floating out on the interweb.........it just doesn't matter. spent too much time pouring over this............Inna......god love ya.........you have to let sleeping dogs lie......you continue to cast pearls before swine............there are some people that are just down right nasty...they can't help it...they are suffering from personalty disorders that are only exposed here there and anywhere else they can share bile..................it just doesn't matter.......

no.......the only information important here...........Paul lost a child

the rest is a jumble of self grandiose poppycock

NOV

J-Mac, my dear, what I wouldn't give to have a bit of your wisdom now, rather than later, but something tells me I'll have to earn it by casting those proverbial pearls before swine for some time to come, and smacking my undersized cranium into titanium walls... but learn it I will...

You are right, of course - I do know it, viscerally... I am just not there yet...

How are you, John?

Inna- I believe in Freedom of Speech. I believe in changing the channel. I believe so much for freedom of speech that I will stand next to someone I totally am on opposing sides of in order that they may exercise their free speech just as I would stand firmly next to anyone who is being persecuted because of their religion. Even if it is hateful speech they still have the right to say what they want to say as long as they are not saying to kill someone or cause violence to someone. When we sensor what is hate and what is not; it becomes subjective and one party will be persecuted and another protected. That is not freedom. I don't want to fear that what I want to say is going to end up in an accusation and trial of what I meant to say or not or what I thought to say and did or did not for then it becomes not just suppression of freedom of speech but also freedom of thought. That is not a road any of us should want to go down. Katerina

Katerina - you know you and I hardly ever agree on anything, less the Free Speech issues. I would be curious to know how you feel about where to draw that line though between free speech and speech that can pose actual danger to a person... Take a look at my last blog - I really would like your thoughts on that. :-)

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