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Short Sale Buyers Agents Know They Are in Trouble When.....

Short Sale buyers agents know they are in trouble when the short sale listing agent calls with this one:

"The second trust is demanding that there be no closing cost assistance to the buyers and that the commissions be lowered."

This was a gem that a co-worker of mine brought to me, looking for advice for her buyers. Evidently, the listing agent of her buyers' transaction is leaning on her and her buyers to take care of the second trust's demands. Of course, being an experienced short sale listing agent myself, I can cut right through the bull here and see the problem is one of two things:

1) The listing agent has no clue what he's doing. If he did, he would never even bring this to the buyer's agent as a serious concern. You see, an experienced short sale listing agent knows that the second trust doesn't have any say over anything that is paid out by the first trust, which closing cost assistance and commissions are. The second is powerless.

What the second trust will sometimes attempt to do is to wrangle costs down for the first, in hope that they (the second) will get more money. Any additional money generally goes to the first if there is still a shortfall. So an experienced short sale listing agent will call the second's bluff and move on to the real issue: How much money does the second want?

2) The seller has been asked to repay funds to the second, either at closing, or in the form of a promissory note. The listing agent could be trying to cut costs in an effort to get more money to the second.

Again, an experienced short sale agent will know that any additional money found will generally go to the first.

Did I mention the listing in question has been on the market since December 2008? And the buyers in question have only been under contract since September 2009. Previous contracts fell through.

I made a suggestion, "Ask for a copy of the approval letter from the second with these demands." My co-worker already had, and since the listing agent refused to do so, as it would be a violation of his client's privacy, I believe we can safely assume that we are looking at scenario two. (This job is so much like playing poker.)

I suggested she get her buyers back into her car and find another house. There are two very important things that her buyers need to infer from scenario 2.

The first is that if the seller is being asked to repay money, and the listing agent's suggestion is for the money to come out of everyone else's pocket, his seller is likely hiding money somewhere or insolvent. (Though lien holder's generally do not ask for money from someone who is legitimately insolvent.) These types of sellers rarely get the outcome they want from a short sale since their lien holders will track down those reserve funds and ask for some as repayment.

Secondly, the definition of short sale approval in the Northern Virginia Regional Sales Contract will technically not be met if the seller has been asked to repay any money, or make a cash contribution. This means the seller can walk the day of settlement and the buyers have no recourse.

For an experienced short sale listing agent, the writing is on the wall with this scenario. Any way you look at it, this is a bad situation for a buyer to continue to be in. They may want the house, but the chances of getting the house are slim.

Chris Ann Cleland, Realtor- Licensed in Virginia, GRI & Short Sale Specialist. Affiliated with Long & Foster, 7526 Limestone Drive, Gainesville, VA 20155. To contact Chris Ann, call 703-402-0037 or email chrisann@LNF.com.

Posted by Chris Ann Cleland, GRI on 11/12/2009 06:17 PM

Comments (59)

Problems That Come Up When Buying a Short Sale in the Home Buying Channel

short sale listing agents, short sale problems, problems with buying a short sale, second trusts in a short sale

Originally posted at: Speaking of Homes...: Short Sale Buyers Agents Know They Are in Trouble When.....

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59 Comments on Short Sale Buyers Agents Know They Are in Trouble When.....

NOV

Chris Ann,

These are great points that as you said"an experienced Short sale agent should know" Lots of green agents trying to facilitate shortsales causing an increase in "excederine" sales :)

Chris Ann...

Whew ... too much of a chess game for me. BTW I have been dealing with LM at Citi and they have been very helpful!

Chris Ann, this is what happens when a listing agent who has no experience tries to "pawn off" on those of us who know what we are doing. It is so sad that sellers get hooked up with agents who might look pretty or sound smart get these listings instead of those of us who know how to negotiate (hard!) on our clients' behalf. I thank you for sharing this.

Chris Ann

The more I read about short sales the more fascinating it gets......we just have not had much here. I am getting busy on foreclosure work however.

What a good overview of what's behind Curtain #2 . . .

This is one of many reasons why I do not get involved with listing short sales. I refer it out to someone in my office. The seller and myself are better off.

Great post Chris Ann! :)

My broker deals with many short sales, and I have been involved in several. The second lien holders are a joke. They act all bossy and make demands, but they have absolutely NO leverage! Take my dollar or you get nothing. I think I will tell YOU what to do, Mr. Second Lien Holder!

Chris- I think we as agents need to preface our short sale posts with the state that we are working in because consumers read these posts and don't understand that the laws are different in different states.

We are always up front with what we try to get from a buyer in order to get a short sale closed as listing agents. We do not give out the acceptance letters either- this always causes a big ruckus on the buyer agents and the buyer agent's lenders side as they always tell us that they don't have a problem with getting the acceptance letter from the listing agents. But we know that we as the broker and owner of our real estate company are held under the new FTC Red Flag Rules, a violation of the Red Flag Rule is a $11,000 fine per infraction. The FTC can go into any real estate office and ask to see their Red Flag Rule policy manual. Every real estate company was supposed to have those manuals and policies written up, decided upon and implemented by now. A part of our red flag compliance manual that I created; it says that we do not send out any short sale acceptance letters even with the sellers' permission. If the seller wants to send it out, then they have to sign that they did so and that we did not.

We see these types of demands from seconds more often now. It also depends on the state that you are how the seconds will respond. Saying they have no leg to stand on - maybe in your state- but in Florida they do have a leg to stand on. What we are seeing is that they, especially chase, is charging off the seconds if they are HELOCs and then putting that bad debt into collections. The second can keep the sale from closing by refusing to release their lien and if the seller gets foreclosed on the second still goes after them in collections. They are banking on making more money on selling bad debt. So now you have, here in Florida, an issue with passing on clear title to the new buyer. A title company is not going to underwrite a policy with a cloud like that on the title. So at the end of the day, the second can demand more than the measly 3K the first usually wants to give up to them. Where do we get this money? We can get it from the seller or the buyer.

I see that the way the listing agent is going all about this is wrong and is not a great negotiator but I do not see anything wrong with the buyer coming up with money to get the deal closed. There are legal and creative ways to get the second more funds.

The part I don't agree on is that the short sale won't close if the seller has hidden assets or has money. We close short sales for millionaires and wealthy clients and investors quite often. The hardship only gives us more negotiating power on what is going to contributed at the end of the day.

Our attorney has provided us with a clause in our addendum to our sales and purchase contract that states if the seller does not agree to the terms that his lender has made to release the lien- our seller does not have to close. Our standard As Is sales and purchase agreement does not even address short sales. FAR BAR has provided a short sale addendum that is terrible and our EandO company did not like it, so our attorney drafted up one that we use,

Katerina

Chris Ann.... What a great post about short sales. Today I received a call from a lender working with a buyer on a short sale contract... Oh my, I was stunned.

The rules do vary from state to state Katarina articulated so beautifully pretty close to how it is here in Idaho.

Ah... the intricacies of short sales - thanks for the information.

NOV

Chris Ann, did you get your experience from a mentor? It's tough to be experienced without going through the activity that brings the experience. I signed up on the Short Sale Superstars site so I could learn from agents who are in the Short Sale trenches every day, with lots of volume.

Chris Ann - Sometimes you run into this issue because of either Service Guideline policy or investor policy. It makes no sense to me as the first is taking the hit. The first agrees to 6% and the 2nd states no more than 4% even though the 1st is being shorted and the extra 2% goes to the 1st. I also have this happen on closing costs, termite repairs, etc.The 2nd is not playing games (at least in my experience). They will truly let it foreclose if these ignorant requests are not met.

At this point, you have to see if you can over-write the policy or guideline. I have seen other people just submit a fake HUD to the 2nd just to make them happy. The logic is because there is no damage to the 2nd, there is not a fear of a lawsuit should they audit the file later with Title.

On another note, I had a first time short sale experience last week when the buyer was asking me to lower my commissions and expenses on the seller side HUD so he can pay less for the property. I said that any reductions in any approved expenses on the HUD will go to the lender and not him and would not affect the purchase price. Had to fax the approval letter (with personal info blacked out) showing that the approval was based on the stated purchase price. Imagine that! First we fight the lenders and now negotiate with the buyers?? ;)

Katerina - I think you (or I) misunderstood the blog. This is in instances where the first is being shorted and the 2nd is dictating terms that the 1st already agreed upon.

Working with an inexperienced agent stinks as it it is, but when they are listing a short sale it can me maddening.

Roland,

You state, "Today I received a call from a lender working with a buyer on a short sale contract... Oh my, I was stunned."

That's interesting. Could you please expound on what went down?

Thanks,

Mako

Hi Chris,

It's always a pleasure to watch a pro work. Thank's for the tips... I'm glad you're on our side.

Chris Ann- there have been some very "interesting" responses made here, and one which was frankly, down right disturbing. There is one final option as well, which will also prevent the sale from coming to a conclusion. Seller can file for bakruptcy.

From what I understand Katerina is right- the title is clouded presently. If the second fails to sign off you can't close. If the first moves forward to foreclosure, the second will not get anything. If the seller files bankruptcy, everything comes to a grinding halt.

I concur with your advise to the buyer's agent- look for something else. At least as a back up inthe event this issue cannot be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Chris Ann:

I have great admiration for the work that you do. It takes, not only a great deal of knowledge about the intricacies of short sales, but also a lot of patience.

yeah we have lenders in second position that feel they hold the key to the house...at the end of the day the conversation happens that states, "second in line gets this much or it goes to foreclosure and you get NOTHING!"...congrats on feature.

Chris Ann, For us folks that handle short sales every day we know that these lein holders are just trying to get as much money as they can. They are supposed to ask us for commission reductions and are supposed to ask the sellers for cash contributions. That's their job.

My thoughts are that as soon as they ask I know that short sale will close. A request for changes on the prelim HUD is a "YES" to agreeing to the short sale. Now all we have left to do is negotiate the terms and conditions. That's OUR job.

It's a game. The more we play the better we get.

Chris, after I got my CDPE certification, I have started to interview the listing agents before I show the properties to my clients. I owe my buyers that much as they will endure heartbreak and pain trying to buy a home through a non-professional short sale agent. If the agent does not convince me they are well versed in getting deals done, I want no part of the pain lying ahead.

I just find the term "experienced"short sale agent to be interesting. For one, this market didn't exist four years ago, nor did negotiators, nor asset managers. This entire side of the industry hasn't been "experienced" since the late '80's. Personally, I've dealt with several very self-proclaimed "experienced" short sale listing agents. Generally, that's code for "I'm about to pass you off to my 26 year old assistant(read:daughter), and you'll never speak to me again. I have 267 other listings that I may never resolve".

Sorry for the tone, but "experience" used to mean an educated track record over an extended period of time. It wasn't gained from a couple of classes and some new signs.

Paul: Great way to put it, "increase in Execedrin sales."

Richard: I found Citi pretty easy too. Though before I worked with them, I had heard horror stories.

Suzanne: I also suggested the buyers agent go and see how many of these things the listing agent has closed in the last twelve months. If he's any good, she find proof on the MLS.

Nice post! Like any other transaction each short sale has it's uniqueness - the more information we as agents can get from our sellers the smoother the transaction is

Trey: It really is an interesting line of work, these short sales. There is a lot of nuance to working them.

Carla: After dealing with only a handful, my radar was up for agents and their tricks.

Jackie: I would take ten short sale listings to one short sale buyer. There's just no control on the buyer's agent end.

Kyle: That is generally the tone I take with them. "Are you paying the commission? (NO) So who are you to dictate? Take the offer of the first or leave it. It's better than what you'll get in foreclosure."

Katerina: It's a Regional Contract issue. Many of the items you point out as differences stem from our contract. Absolutely the second can dig their heals in and say, "Not releasing the lien." Enjoy foreclosure where there is no money being doled out to you and you have to pursue someone who, 9 times out of 10, has declared bankruptcy. It's a game of chicken, and as a listing agent, I put the second in their place....SECOND place.

As for the letters being released, it is stated in our regional sales contract that the contingency is not removed until that letter is given the buyers. I'm curious, how is a short sale approval letter any different than buyer commitment letters for loans? Sellers want written proof that the sale can move forward and the financing contingency has been removed. The short sale in Virginia is seen as the mirror image to that buyer financing contingency.

As for them not closing with insolvent sellers, I didn't say the DON'T. I said the seller do not HAVE to close in Northern Virginia(again, per our contract) if they are being asked to repay ANYTHING. Do sellers who owe at settlement close anyway? Sure. But in this situation where the seller seems to be milking everyone else for cash, and the buyers have only enough for part of their closing costs and all of their down payment, it ain't coming from the buyers. And the buyers agent would be a fool to let the commission go. Why? Again, in Northern Virginia we have to have our Broker's sign a Brokerage Fee Agreement to take "whatever the bank offers, and split it 50/50." The buyer's agent can say yes all day long, but at the end of the sale, the Brokerage will be going after the Listring Agent for the commission.

I have linked to posts when bringing up Regionalisms, that point out the regional difference here. Short sales aren't the only thing that is different state to state, but we don't ask people to state which state they are writing from when doling out advice on regular sales. Just a thought..

Roland: It is sad to get those calls, or the calls from sellers working with jerks who just made off with $2,000 to negotiate the sale (up front money, of course) and they haven't ever heard back from them.

Janna: That's why we need licenses to practice real estate on a per state basis. It's not just short sales that differ from state to state.

Susan: The intricacies seem endless in this arena.

Pat- This market did not exist this way four years ago but short sales have been around since the advent of the mortgage. The very first short sale we did was in 1995. It closed in 2 weeks. There is a company here ( not here anymore) was called, we buy ugly houses, their entire product was selling short to the bank, flipping the house in escrow and the end used gets title. They were in biz here for many years. That was a short sale. Richard Zaretsky, an attorney in our town and here on Active Rain did short sales since the 80's. So even 4 years ago, Nestor and I were experienced short sale agents. It is just that the rules keep changing. Katerina

Satar: You are correct in your understanding of the post. The first is also very upside down. Second stands to make nothing without their own collection efforts in a foreclosure.

I have noticed the second trusts "guidelines" buckle quickly about 95% of the time when you are firm with them. It's X dollars from the first or nothing. That's the real decision. As you can imagine, the suburban DC area is one that embraces attorneys that find ways to put clients in bankruptcy.

I have heard of banks and clients wanting to "change" the HUD or draft a fake one. Perfect idea for anyone who was looking to get out of the real estate business for good.

Philip: I actually teach a short sale class that focuses 50% of the time on teaching buyer's agents how to smoke these inexperienced agents out before you ever show the property and end up in a situation like this where the buyers, no matter what you say, can't see anything to do but move forward with any demand so they can get the property. And I stand on the sidelines thinking, "This is giong to suck when it doesn't close."

Mako: Hopefully Roland will pop back in and clue us in.

Andrew: Thanks for the kind words. Seeing some of these listing agents and how they work, I wonder who's side their own. Certainly not the Realtor community.

In my Sacramento short sales, if we have room in the price, I sometimes ask the buyer to bump up the price to meet the demands of the second lender. On one of my other short sales in which a law firm is handling the negotiation, of course the first place the law firm looked was my pocket. LOL.

Chris- Thanks for clarifying. Yes, when it is a contract issue, agency issue, deed issue, foreclosure issue; I think we need to preface the post or somewhere in the post, specifiy the state we are dealing with. Agency issue is another biggie that is different from state to state and we should for the benefit of the consumer make that clear.

Not all homeowners are candidates for bankruptcy. Here in Florida we are an asset protection state where it is difficult for the collection companies to squeeze blood from a turnip. But states like CA; if the seller does not file bankruptcy and remains a resident of CA, their income tax returns can even be garnished. I have seen that happen to people. I am a native Californian and that is where I got my first real estate license. Of course laws change. But we have quite a few residents of California who own investment properties here in FLorida we are doing and have done short sales on and we have to be very careful what we advise them, and our attorney of course will speak to them, but the collection proceedures in CA are very different than here. We are also not a community property state. So we have to look at the end result from many different angles.

In NY, they don't even have homestead. Most of our attorneys advise our NY clients who are doing shorts here in Florida on second homes to come to closing with the difference because of the deficiency statute and how that will affect their property in NY.

I guess we just don't work with as many insolvent people as some agents do. We have doctors and attorneys who list their properties as short sales with us so a big part of our legal team's advice is in asset protection.

I was not trying to be difficult:) Katerina

Allison: There are too many areas here where this can just implode. And yet, after telling the agent, and the agent conveying all that to the buyers, she came back, threw her hands in the air and said, "They really want the house." Great! I hope they get it. But in my eyes, the writing is on the wall. In this care, I really like the idea of back-ups for her buyer.

Claudette: An ability to read a situation and know exactly what's going on helps too. :)

Tim: In my experience, the second getting a deal from an upside down first, generally barks worse than they bite.

Bryant: Once the banks start asking for things, they show their hand. And hopefullly, despite the Regional Contract pitfalls that can still bite these buyers, someone will figure out how to get this to closing.

Dave: Going for my CDPE in February. I'm glad that interviewing the listing agents is something I've already been in the practice of doing. Why show a listing that has a very small chance of being sold.

Pat: I vented about the local short sale experts in my area who are only experts in placing ads that say they are experts. I'm happy to say that I've been at the forefront with my local and state association in leading the way for short sale training. It's not impossible to be experienced in a short time in my market. Short sales are like a stew we are all simmering in. Some agents learn. Some don't.

Chris Ann & Katerina,

The only problem is Richard and you are some of the very few. And unfortunately, you aren't involved in the majority of sales. In the "old days", the distressed sale & hard money markets were viable niche and very profitable venues. So my point wasn't meant to personally offend those with legitimate experience, rather it is to draw attention to the insincerity/disingenuous claims of the vast majority of those experienced agents laying waste to an already difficult market.

Noah: There is something to learn everyday. A lot of it on AR.

Katerina: It's hard for some to believe, but there really are experienced short sale agents out there.

Elizabeth: I was involved in a short sale where my buyers bumped up their price to meet a bank's net demand. Then the bank came back with a higher demand, and did it a third time after my buyers said yes the second time. Buyers get in the "I have to win" mentality, and did these buyers. I had to point out that they were about to pay as much for a ragged out short sale with plenty of deferred maintenance issues and get no closing cost assistance, when they could go down the road for the same price and get a BRAND NEW townhouse and 6% in closing cost assistance. Could not get them out of the mental need to "take down" this short sale. Of course, that one never went to settlement. Shocking, right? :)

Katerina: Thanks for talking this out with me. I know you aren't trying to be difficult. Short sales are a hot button issue for those of us who know what we are doing within our individual localities. Recently, within our state, whose markets differ widely from Northern VA to Southern VA, we were notified about change coming to laws and MLS systems to reflect what is happening in the slowest markets in our state. The agents like me in Northern VA, (the engine that runs the state) are furious about the changes. The only analogy I can give you is that in my fast paced, short sale soaked market, it will be like playing high speed bumper cars, blindfolded and with your arms tied behind your back. Even within the same local market, there are agents that seem to be working in two totally different realms. It's insanity.

We use a short sale negotiation firm that specializes in dealings with the bank. This allows us to go after more listings and.or work with other buyers. Usually those guys only charge 1/2% of the commission and only get paid if the deal closes. I have a great company to refer if anyone is interested. One of the owners is a ex asset manager from Chase.

Dustin: Our state real estate boad is struggling with whether or not theser "firms" are breaking Virginia law by practicing real estate without a license. That's the reason so many, including myself, don't use them. Attorneys and agents are golden per our state laws. Anyone else, questionabe right now. Not willing to put my license on the line for a questionable practice.

I've been on the financing end for several short sale buyers and I appreciate your recommendation to the agent.

Pat- Thanks for the clarification! I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

Chris- It is insane. But what is more insane is the assnine policies of mls. Our mls even violates the law in some of her ( the pres.) stupid rules and Nestor had to point that out to her. Since we work for sellers we feel that all their rules are to benefit buyers and there are no protections for sellers here. The sellers are not really the horrible SELLER to have to protect the consumer from these days. They are victims in this also and they are fighting foreclosure timelines and for that there needs to be someone to advocate for them, which is of course, what we choose to do. Thanks for the conversation and yes, it is quite a hot button for us too.:) Katerina

Chris Ann,

"I have noticed the second trusts "guidelines" buckle quickly about 95% of the time when you are firm with them."

That's my experience as well. Also, sometimes you get new negotiators who dictate the policy thinking it applies to all short sales when in it should only apply when they are in 1st position (not 2nd). Once you have them check with their management (or even get a hold of a manager), it gets corrected.

I have a question for you. In your blog you make an assumption that the 2nd lien holder is asking for additional funds and the listing agent is using the commissions and/or approved closing cost assistance to pay them off without having their client (seller) to pay them. In your state, can the listing agent pull that off without you knowing about it? I can see how taking the commission reduction can be pulled off but I can't see how they can take away the closing cost without it showing on the buyer's side HUD. You'll have to have an entry where it is credited and then taken away elsewhere on the buyer's side HUD.

Anyway, very good blog and I admire your keen insight into this matter. I agree with you, I would like to see BOTH approval letters in this situation as the listing agent is either very ignorant or is trying to be slick.

What a mess short sales are. Thanks for trying to explain part of the process!!!

Chris Ann ---very interesting post and the comments have been just as interesting --- I can always count on learning something from your posts. Thanks.

Wow, I have enjoyed reading all the comments. Just a few comments of my own. There absolutely are experienced short sale specialists out there. I myself have been doing them for 8 years.

Short sale negotiators are a great asset if you are new short sales or do a lot of them. Unless you have an in house short sale division to handle the time consuming day to day tasks of a short sale, out sourcing is a great idea. As for the legalities of these firms, I can only speak of my firm. I am not licensed, nor do I need to be, because I do not write or amend contracts. You, the Realtor, write the contracts, counters and amendments. I facilitate all the aspects of the short sale. I also comply with federal mandates requiring me to be paid upon completion of my service. My fee is reflected on the HUD and I am not paid unless the closing happens.

I am also very outspoken on checking out anyone you intend to give your business to. Ask for references and really call them. Check the BBB. Even if they are not a member, complaints will still be listed.

I also want to agree with Katerina on the Chase issue. They have become my least favorite servicer to have in second position. They will stop a sale if they don't get what they want and are demanding unrealistic amounts to release while retaining the right to persue the deficiency. I have a SS right now where Chase is demanding 10K on a 26K second. They want the Realtors to kick back 2% of their commission to the seller to cover their demands, and for me to forgo 1/2 my fee. Chase drives me crazy!! We are 10 days from close and they still have not budged.

Darrell: It's hard to recommend that a buyer stay with something that is looking bleak.

Katerina: The MLS debacle is one we deal with too. The reason our own state association is looking into reviewing our statewide policies. I know one thing for sure, we will all be better agents for surviving, and thriving, in this.

Satar: We are all in these transactions together, and Elizabeth Weintraub makes a point about how she handles buyers where there is wiggle room and a seller is asked to contribute money. In general, it is a violation of the code of ethics to untruthful about the WHY here. Our local contract makes it such that this listing agent really will have to reveal that approval letter from the second and first trusts. Sadly, when you start to master the game of short sales, you also start to master the tricks that the less competent among the Realtor community will pull. This is my read from my own radar. I can't work this situation out any other way in my head.

Emily: The process changes from state to state, locale to locale with regional contracts, MLS policies and state laws. You have to be aware of how you operate in all of these arena before embarking on short sales.

Liz: I'm glad I can contribute here to AR. I learn so much from everyone here.

Dawn: Go get 'em. I've heard horror stories about all the banks out there, and some of my own experiences, while trying, end up with a better outcome. I have a hard time taking no for an answer. A good trait to have when it comes to short sales.

As for the legality of the VA state negotiators, VREB, to this point, has seen that negotiators are negotiating vital parts of the contract such as closing date and those short sale approval terms will affect terms such as prices, concesssions, etc. That is the struggle here in VA. Don't know about other states, only my own.

Great presentation! I am not a short sale expert but have had to deal with a few.

Angelica: Short sales are the modern day soap opera of the real estate market. So much to talk about in any given transaction.

I'm with Bryant. When you get a call from the second trust, it's almost always a good news: Closing is around the corner. What they actually saying has no importance...

Claude: Love your last remark. Perfect!

NOV

Chris Ann, I have zero experience with short sales, but am getting ready to get some experience. I have avoided them like the plague till now. Yesterday my company gave an excellent short sale class that I attended. I have taken several other short sale classes, but yesterday was outstanding, and has given me the confidence to move forward and pursue short sale listings. Yes, I am inexperienced now, but the only way to get the experience is to go forward. AR is also helping me to learn from blogs like this one. Thanks.

Bob: You've already got the experiences of others behind you since you took that class yesterday. That is much more than some of the so-called "experts" I see that think a short sale is as simple as taking the listing and sending the contract to the bank. Good luck. I'm sure you'll be great.

Chris Ann, The class was broken up into two segments. The paperwork and mechanics were coverered in the morning. Marketing and negotiation were covered in the afternoon, by a different instructor. Both of them are CDPE, and they tried to basically teach us everything they could in one day. It was excellent.

Bob: I've heard wonderful things about the CDPE class. I am so glad that our local association is offering it in the first quarter of 2010. Before then, I'm going to attend the NAR SFR class. Will be neat to compare.

Folks just trying to "slick or greedy". In either position it's time to move on. Long story short i wrote an offer for a client and on the counter they wanted my client to pay a fee to their short sale "expert". I asked the listing agent to explain the logic in that. We moved on and found a better home(foreclosure) and are set to close at the end of the month.

Robert: So the listing agent was too lazy to pay for the negotiator themselves? Sad!

NOV

Yes very very sad. So how were looking out for the "best interest" of their client.Hmmm..

NOV

Good discussion. Fortunately the short sales I had this year worked out. I do use a negotiator for my listings.

I do think it is important for the buyer or at least the buyers title company to look at the short sale letters our attorney has said that some of them contain language that could cloud a title.

Robert: Seems pretty bad, huh?

Gene: Whenever one of these letters comes across, I have my sellers take it to an attorney.

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