Special offer

The Birth of American Taliban –Is praying for death of the sitting President crossing a line?

By
Services for Real Estate Pros with ha media group

I know this isn't news to some of you.  I planned on staying silent on this subject, but today, I learned that Café Press decided to reinstate all the merchandise that quotes Psalm 109 under the heading of Pray for Obama.  Of course, in a somewhat sneaky manner it only quotes one verse, 109:8, which, in and of itself, does not call for the President's death, but the context of the Psalm it is taken from leave little room for interpretation of the intent of that message.

pray for Obama-tshirt

Here are some more verses from Psalm 109 (as taken from the KJB.  Pay close attention to the verses immediately following 109:8, the one quoted on t-shirts and bumper stickers, and see what interpretation you can come up with of the message.

 

A Cry for Vengeance

 

1 

Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;

2 

for the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me:

        

they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.

3 

They compassed me about also with words of hatred;

        

and fought against me without a cause.

4 

For my love they are my adversaries:

        

but I give myself unto prayer.

5 

And they have rewarded me evil for good,

        

and hatred for my love.

6 

Set thou a wicked man over him:

        

and let Satan stand at his right hand.

7 

When he shall be judged, let him be condemned:

        

and let his prayer become sin.

8  

Let his days be few;

        

and let another take his office. Acts 1.20

9 

Let his children be fatherless,

        

and his wife a widow.

10 

Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg:

        

let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.

11 

Let the extortioner catch all that he hath;

        

and let the strangers spoil his labor.

12 

Let there be none to extend mercy unto him:

        

neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.

13 

Let his posterity be cut off;

        

and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

14 

Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD;

        

and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.

15 

Let them be before the LORD continually,

        

that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

Zazzle stated that they will, indeed, remove all merchandise with this Psalm in reference to our president on it, and seem to have stuck to their guns on that, whereas Café Press reneged on their promise  to remove said merchandise citing public discourse on the subject, that makes the message on this merchandise fair criticism... They are now reinstating the Pray for Obama items on their store.

I am a huge proponent of Free Speech and all that, but at what point do we cross the Line?  At what point should we be scrutinized as if we actually pose a threat to our President's security and that of his family?

And just at what point will those among us who believe in God, and take their faith seriously, speak up against tactics such as these?  Because if the religious leadership in this country does not condemn the use of their Religion and Bible to inspire physical destruction of a sitting president, then they acquiesce to the wishes of the very extreme, and are no better than the moderates among Muslims who are  all too silent on the subject of using Koran as a weapon.

If they keep silent, then they are, indeed, enabling the American Theocracy.

Your thoughts?

Inna Hardison
ha media group - Orlando, FL
Wordpress for Real Estate & Design, Print HaMedia Group

Bruce - wow, thank you...humbly for your well-reasoned response.  I've always been of the opinion that if one is a believer, it's always a personal thing.  I don't grasp the concept of 'needing to confess one's sins' in order to feel shame for having sinned in the first place, or any other ritual imposed by organized religion on the followers.  It still strikes me as weird why the very concept of 'individuality' seems to be so counter-intuitive to the religious movements, considering that we did get Free Will, whether as a gift or a curse, we all have one...

Anyway, thank you again for your comment.:-)

Nov 24, 2009 06:39 AM
Inna Hardison
ha media group - Orlando, FL
Wordpress for Real Estate & Design, Print HaMedia Group

Hugh - CafePress or any other site like is simply a on-demand product manufacturer.  Users submit stuff, and while I can understand how difficult it might be to walk the line between free expression and criminal material, once the message of the referenced Psalm was brought to their attention, they should have handled it better than they did.  That's all.

Other than that - I agree with you.

Nov 24, 2009 06:43 AM
Linda Mae Croom
Topock, AZ
(928) 768-3040

Inna, side note...I name only democrats because it is known (or should be) to all..... that Christians are, by large, Republicans in todays World because they represent Conservative values... So I doubt we will find SCRIPTURE of this nature  on their T-shirts or whatever..

AND I had absoluetly NO idea Jon is your father...... WOW no wonder you two are the BEST writers on here..

Nov 24, 2009 06:44 AM
Inna Hardison
ha media group - Orlando, FL
Wordpress for Real Estate & Design, Print HaMedia Group

My dear David - respectfully, in this case there is no need to grasp at straws, non whatsoever.  The threat of violence to a sitting president was quite deliberate and VERY thinly veiled.  Unless you are of the mind that whoever put it together didn't get to read beyone verse 8, not even the very next line, your argument holds no water.

Nov 24, 2009 06:44 AM
Inna Hardison
ha media group - Orlando, FL
Wordpress for Real Estate & Design, Print HaMedia Group

Lane - agreed.  PS: I thought you swore off commenting on political posts, unless they are real estate related?

Alexander - you may not have been paying attention, but contrary a wide-spread belief circulating elsewhere in the AR universe, most comments on my blogs tend to be civil:-)  But thank you for noticing.

John - ok...:-)

Tana - they did stop selling them.  Again, as previously stated, while i do find all the merchandise you referenced equally offensive, and not really being in the arena of 'fair criticism' of a political figure - i did not see Christianity used as a weapon in any of those. 

 

Nov 24, 2009 06:50 AM
Inna Hardison
ha media group - Orlando, FL
Wordpress for Real Estate & Design, Print HaMedia Group

Linda Mae - I should have just scrolled to your comment and used it to rebut those in my previous comments:-)  Well said, and thank you so much for the clarification.

PS: Jon is, indeed, daddy.:-)

Nov 24, 2009 06:55 AM
Yolanda Hoversten
Self Employed - O'Fallon, IL
Referrals for O’Fallon, IL & the Metro East

With all due respect, Inna - you yourself said thus:

"Of course, in a somewhat sneaky manner it only quotes one verse, 109:8, which, in and of itself, does not call for the President's death, but the context of the Psalm it is taken from leave little room for interpretation of the intent of that message."

 

I gave you "extensive over-the-line statements" that actually advocated and actually filmed docudrama calling for President Bush's assassination.  They do not equate nor do they compare to the commercially made or canceled Pray for Obama T-shirts.  I reject the premise.

Inna, I hope you're better than that.

 

Nov 24, 2009 07:24 AM
Inna Hardison
ha media group - Orlando, FL
Wordpress for Real Estate & Design, Print HaMedia Group

Yolanda - the film you are speaking of did not 'call for President Bush's assasination' - it protrayed suchas a starting point of a discussion of War on Terror on the American life, and seemed to make a point that in the wake of a disaster, such as presidential assasination (or 9.11) we as a people will change (and I believe we have), at least in so much as who and what we begin to consider dangerrous to our way of life.  Now mind you, i think the point could have and should have been made without using images of any president being assasinated, and do not condone the use of the scene, but there were NO CALLS for assasination in it.

In my view, and that of quite a few others the Prayer is indeed a thinly veiled call for the president's demise, not through elections, but by murder.  The fact that only one verse was referenced doesn't really hide the rest of the Psalm or the message within it.

Additionally, one can't argue with the rights of film-makers to do what they will, especially if those film-makers are not citizens of this country.

Hope this helps.

Nov 24, 2009 08:46 AM
Scott Smith
Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage - Gloucester, MA
Gloucester & Rockport, Massachusetts

Inna: The use of scripture is the point here and thank you for posting this thread.

There Cafe Press items being sold online for just about every cause, pro and con, and some of them are cute, witty and snarky. Some are dumd, confusing and bizarre. Some are dangerous, frightening and frankly, uncivilized. I hope as a group of professionals, we can see the difference.

Nov 24, 2009 09:16 AM
John MacArthur
Century 21 Redwood - Washington, DC
Licensed Maryland/DC Realtor, Metro DC Homes

Inna.........I just have to type something. I have no doubt it will be yet another waste of bytes. I am a Cristian.  That is what I am. I don't support murder. I don't think that is a left of right issue. There was a time when idiots were advised to keep their mouth shut so that those around them would not know the small measure of their i.q.  ok, i don't remember the exact quote, but it is humorous.

anyone, left...right or in the middle that chooses to profess their stupidity on a t shirt needs more pity than pathos............really...kill this...murder that............it is all bunk........just pure bunk i say....

those that claim the right is right or the left is right are just pompous blow hards. neither side has any claim to decency............all this holier than thou crap just comes across as horse excrement....

these rants and comments that are filling the internet with hate and angst do nothing but denigrate the human experience................

but they continue.................chuming........and chuming and hoping to create some back and forth so each side can crawl in their egotistical black hole and whisper to the demon that drives them...i sure told them that time.

regarding the t-shirts..........what ever...

Nov 24, 2009 02:04 PM
Lane Bailey
Century 21 Results Realty - Suwanee, GA
Realtor & Car Guy

I'm trying not to comment and write a lot of politics... but it is SOOOO easy.  Sometimes it is fun, too...

Nov 24, 2009 02:05 PM
Anonymous
Georgia

With the vileness that was spewed for years toward President Bush, who is really surprised at the t-shirt above?  Did anyone expect any different?  When the "Kill Bush" t-shirts came out our nation sunk to a new low when it comes to insulting politicians.  Those shirts openly called for his assassination. 

"On Air America, talk show host Randi Rhodes recommended doing to Bush what Michael Corleone, in ``The Godfather, Part II," does to his brother. ``Like Fredo," she said, ``somebody ought to take him out fishing and phuw!" -- then imitated the sound of a gunshot"

"For the more literary Bush-hater, there is ``Checkpoint," a novel by Nicholson Baker in which two characters discuss the wisdom of shooting the president. ``I'm going to kill that bastard," one character fumes."

"Some Bush-hatred masquerades as art: At Chicago's Columbia College, a curated exhibit included a sheet of mock postage stamps bearing the words ``Patriot Act" and depicting President Bush with a gun to his head"

What do you think would happen in the media if someone said that about obama? Those of you insulted by the above t-shirt would demand blood.  Tell me you wouldn't?

Nov 25, 2009 12:49 AM
#49
Linda Mae Croom
Topock, AZ
(928) 768-3040

Inna ,

I do not recall a similar event in Bush's eight years in office in regards to the following INTERNATIONAL News Story that made headlines worldwide.....

 A Pastor has caused outrage among church goers in Phoenix, Arizona after praying for the death of the African-American US President Barack Obama. In his August 16 sermon entitled "Why I Hate Barack Obama," the Phoenix-area pastor, Steven Anderson, asked his parishioners to join him in prayer for Obama's death and for God to send him to Hell.

and in addition to events such as the above....

 Since Mr Obama took office, the rate of threats against the president has increased 400 per cent from the 3,000 a year or so under President George W. Bush, to over 11,000 against President Obama since he took office 10 months ago.

Seems to matter not what any t-shirt, bumper sticker, button or any thing else any one can come up with about Bush or any other past President.....

Obama has over-stretched and under-resourced Secret Service, more so than all presidents combined in American history.....

Nov 25, 2009 12:40 PM
Anonymous
Anonymous

 

I highly doubt there are more death threats against obama.  They are simply reported by the media, unlike the ones against President Bush.  The SS are arresting people with signs against obama, again, unlike those against President Bush.

 

 

Nov 30, 2009 07:43 AM
#51
Nogui Aramburo
Linda Craft & Team, REALTORS® - Raleigh, NC
Real Estate Professional in the Raleigh Area

𝅘𝅥𝅮𝅘𝅥𝅮𝅘𝅥𝅮𝅘𝅥𝅮 Islamofacists to the left of me,
Christofacists to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you.

 

Dec 01, 2009 04:16 PM
Anonymous
Georgia

You are cute enough to squeeze sometimes Nogui!!  ; )

Dec 02, 2009 10:21 AM
#53
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Inna,

I am far from religion and not that much by choice, but by upbringing.

I think that religion here does not really matter, and it is irrelevant who is the target. There are always people out there who see the world in black and white, and who see only praising or killing. At the same time, I do not think that it is a real threat to the sitting and not sitting Presidents. It is a commodity, shameful, but nevertheless just commodity.

It tells us a lot about people who produce this stuff, and who put it on, rather than a President or a religion. It is unfortunate, of course, but I would disagree that this is not a sign of democracy. It still is, even though we cringe at the manifestations

Dec 02, 2009 05:34 PM
Robert L. Brown
www.mrbrownsellsgr.com - Grand Rapids, MI
Grand Rapids Real Estate Bellabay Realty, West Mic

We ALL will have to stand in front of our God and answer for ALL the stupidity we have done.

Dec 13, 2009 05:16 AM
Connie Winstead
Nancy Puder & Associates - Arroyo Grande, CA
San Luis Obispo County CA Real Estate Agent

Right on!  I supported Obama and still do.  I believe there is more hatred toward Obama because he is black.  It doesn't matter if he is half white ... that is not the focus.  I think Bart Simpson said it best when he said, "there are just some people in this country that will never accept the fact that we have a black President".  And for this reason, these threats and hatred are even more serious. 

 

YOU GO GIRL

Dec 22, 2009 05:32 PM
Robert L. Brown
www.mrbrownsellsgr.com - Grand Rapids, MI
Grand Rapids Real Estate Bellabay Realty, West Mic

You have your "closet" racists who feel it's time to come out. It just shows how ignorant people are.

Dec 27, 2009 05:29 AM