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One in Four Borrowers Are Underwater

By
Real Estate Agent with Real Estate One

 house under water

As reported in a Realtor News article from their Source: The Wall Street Journal, Ruth Simon and James R. Hagerty (11/24/2009), more than 23 percent of people with mortgages owe more on their properties than they are worth, according to a report released Tuesday by research firm First American CoreLogic.

Another 2.3 million homeowners are within 5 percent of being underwater, bringing the total of those who are upside down or close to it to about 28 percent.

About 5.3 million U.S. households have mortgages that are at least 20 percent higher than their home's value, the First American report says. Borrowers owing more than 120 percent of their home's value are the most likely to default, First American calculates.

The majority of underwater mortgages are in the following states:

 Nevada: 65 percent of homeowners are underwater

Arizona: 48 percent

Florida: 45 percent

Michigan: 37 percent

California: 35 percent

The report also notes that most U.S. homeowners have home equity, and nearly 24 million owner-occupied homes don't have any mortgage at all, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

I can certainly add my own anecdotal take on these numbers. I do 2-3 CMA's a week for clients who request market analyses on their homes thru a Web-based service that subscribe to. Over the last 12-18 months almost every request that I received resulted in current market price numbers that are lower than what the public records show is owed on the property. Most of these underwater homeowners bought within the last 5 years, but many are long term owners who took out home equity lines of credit for whatever reason and now find themselves upside down on the debt vs. value of their homes.

It is tough and sometimes sad to have to tell owners that they can't get out of their homes to move for a job or retirement because it's now worth so much less than when they bought. For many the value of their home was a big part of their retirement nest egg, an egg now gone bad. For some the home they loved is now a ball and chain preventing them from making that move South for retirement or maybe closer to family. For others it is the thing holding them back from seeking work elsewhere, where jobs may be more plentiful than in Michigan. For many sellers these last 2-3 years that has meant bringing money to the table to sell their homes, so that they could move on. For some that has meant just walking away and losing everything that they had worked so hard to get. It's not a pretty picture.

One might think that the Federal programs, like the Making Homes Affordable program, would help; however, the lenders have not jumped on board that program and would seem to prefer foreclosure to doing loan modifications and workouts with strapped owners. So. While Wall Street and the big banks give themselves obscene bonuses, Main Street America continues to see hopes and dreams go down the foreclosure drain. It's got to stop somewhere, sometime and it may take a severe backlash and uprising of the borrowers to spur the changes that are needed.

I'm not necessarily a fan of bigger government, but the big players on Wall Street have proven over and over that they cannot police themselves and that greed always wins over common sense. The pendulum needs to swing back from the almost totally unregulated markets of the Bush years to something that allows for innovation and entrepreneurship without encouraging excess. I'm not sure that either of the political parties that we are stuck with have the intelligence or political will to find that middle ground. We shall see.

Posted by

 

 Norm Werner

Real Estate One

 

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Bonner Thomason
Keller Williams Realty - Kernersville, NC
CRS, ABR, GRI, e-Pro

I also do CMAs that do not reflect the value of the home above where the mortgage balance is. As with any conservative practice, time will help.Those with jobs can ride the coarse. through building equity and appreciation this will change. Things are what they are and individuals need to take responsibilty if where they are and not expect these miricle bail outs. This type of attitude got the industry where its at today.

Bonner

Nov 27, 2009 12:26 AM
Bonner Thomason
Keller Williams Realty - Kernersville, NC
CRS, ABR, GRI, e-Pro

I also do CMAs that do not reflect the value of the home above where the mortgage balance is. As with any conservative practice, time will help.Those with jobs can ride the coarse. through building equity and appreciation this will change. Things are what they are and individuals need to take responsibilty if where they are and not expect these miricle bail outs. This type of attitude got the industry where its at today.

Bonner

Nov 27, 2009 12:26 AM
Norm Werner
Real Estate One - Milford, MI
Helping the first time and every time

Well this has certainly become an interesting string of conversation. There are differing views on whether the institutions involved - government, lenders, Wall Street, etc. - or the homeowners themselves are more to blame for the mess that we find ourselves in right now, There also seems to be quite a difference around the country in how this crisis is impacting various local markets. As usual there are many different approaches suggested on how to work our way out of the mess - from massive government intervention to "let the market work it out" lazzie farie approach (which I believe got us into this situation to begin with). Both approaches have downsides to go along with any potential benefits.

 My state (Michigan) also has the additional issue of a declining population. We are projected to have lost between 2-3% of our population when the new decade census numbers are complied. There's no mystery as to why - there's no work for many here in Michigan. We have seen our manufacturing jobs shipped overseas and our main industry - automotive - take itself down the pooper.  Our state politicians spend their time arguing with each other and can't even come up with a way to balance and fund the state budget - a task that a bunch of local housewives were able to do recently (they got some national TV attention for that).

There seems to be strong sentiment for the "just wait until things get back to normal" approach to the crisis. Folks, this is the new normal! We have already lived through much of the wave of foreclosures that were caused by toxic loans and are now into the wave being caused by high unemployment and the remainder of the ARM resets. We are just going into the expected wave of commercial property defaults. Property values continue to fall in many areas and will likely do so for much of 2010 and into 2011. The greedy lenders whom we bailed out earlier this year have rewarded themselves with fat bonuses and have now started introducing new and more exotic derivative products (many of them real estate-based again), which a not quite so fat, but just as dumb, market is snapping up. It's Ground Hog Day all over again!

So, is all gloom and doom? Is there no future? In order to live in the future, we must let go of the past. We should try to learn from history, but we cannot relive it. Our children, for whose benefit we always said we were doing all of those excessive things, have already learned to live with less, to expect less and to be happy with less. The less here are the material things that we all splurged upon and went into debt to get. The so-called Millennial generation has adapted better to the current conditions that most of us in the older generations. They'll be fine; it's us that we need to worry about. How will we ever get along without our McMansions or boats and motorcycles and country club memberships and so on and so on and so on? Heaven help us. Wait; maybe that's the answer!

Nov 27, 2009 12:38 AM
Debbie Summers
Charles Rutenberg Realty - New Smyrna Beach, FL

It's shocking and has lead to a mentality of just "walking away"...  it's sad and will continue to keep us in this cycle.

Nov 27, 2009 01:13 AM
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
Real Estate Broker Retired

Norm: Sorry that I don't agree with those numbers it just seems too high.  I due think that people have to just stiffen up and realize the equity will never be back and it could take at least 10 years of an even market to even do that.  Maybe in Michigan, but I'm not seeing those numbers here in the Chicago area.

Nov 27, 2009 02:03 AM
Mike Warfel
Mike & Rita Warfel Real Estate LLC - Avoca, MI
Associate Broker

Very good discussion and that is our hope for the future, we need to talk this over to discover the best course through these declining values and shifting population.

Thank you

Nov 27, 2009 02:21 AM
James Wells
Honeycomb Properties - Zionsville, IN
Zionsville Indiana Real Estate

I think Jeff said it very well: "Not everyone falls into this category, but there are countless millions who felt they were entitled to a new home, even though they had no means to pay for it. Yes, banks & government made part of the problem, but good old American Greed was the central driver in all of this, on both sides."

Here is part of the problem I see going forward- the banks are going to continue to be greedy with the borrowers backed into a corner.

I bought a rental property 10 years ago for a long term investment. It cash flowed figuring a 60-70% vacancy rate, with utility increases, an outrageous property tax reassesment, and unemployed renters- it doesn't come close to cash flow anymore. It's value is now 1/2 of the principle balance of the loan, which has only reduced 10% in the 1st 10 years of the loan. Over the course of the loan (via total of payments), I have paid back the original amount borrowed. I am unable and unwilling to continue to pay for others to live because the property no longer cash flows and people are losing jobs left and right.

Neither my lender (PNC) nor the invester (Freddie Mac) will discuss a principle reduction to the fair market value after both recieved Government Bail Out Money. They can foreclose and sell at auction, or work with the current property owner that has more time, money, effort, and work invested in it, but they refuse to be reasonable. Why wouldn't they consider it?- "Why don't we just give you "x" amount of money if we consider a principle reduction? It would be just like handing you the money." Was the PNC representative's response.

Ohhhh, you mean like my tax money given to both you and the investor? I pay taxes every year, but bail out money goes to the lenders and not the borrowers also? Bad Government!

I even offered to keep the property, but take the unpaid princle balance at 0% interest over the next few years (so it cash flows) until paid off. Their answer=No. This would mean no loss to them, and it would acctually make the total of payments DOUBLE THE AMOUNT BORROWED (that's a 100% return folks).

If I wanted to be nasty, I could gut that house while I am still the rightful owner and it will be worth even less by the time they take ownership. As a realtor, I've seen this done. I won't be that way, but the lender has 0 respect for me and has proven it time and time again. I won't continue to dump money into a bad investment, and they will likely take a loss rather that work with a 10 year customer. I think what I am offering is FAIR- they don't see it that way and I'll likely sign the deed to them in lieu. I will have perfect credit other than this 1 debt.

I'm not done yet trying to negotiate, but don't have many more options.

 

 

Nov 27, 2009 02:40 AM
David Krushinsky
Reasy Financial LLC - Peoria, AZ
AZ MB-1044208 MLO NMLS #202115

Hi Norm! The statistics within your blog are probably right on, or maybe even too low.  Arizona shows 48% of mortgages are underwater.  I think it may actually be higher, based on reviewing my past clients home values on a daily basis.  For many in Phoenix, their home is currently worth the same price paid when it was bought and sold for in 1992.  Essentially, almost 18 years of price gains were washed away in 3 years.  How??? Who's to blame?? What should we do?? These are all the questions that my clients ask me everyday.

Speaking from my own personal situation; a decrease in home prices of 40-70%, from what you paid for your home does have a huge psychological effect on your thought process whether or not to continue to pay your mortgage.  Until you're in that situation, you don't know what you would do.  From all negatives Main Street America has endured, people should learn a positive.  I'm sure our country will come out of this better and stronger than before we went in.  For that I am thankful.

Nov 27, 2009 04:29 AM
Kathy Opatka
RE/MAX CROSSROADS - Ocean City, MD
Serving Ocean City, MD, & The Delaware Beaches

Norm,

I think it's time for us ALL to start watching where we are spending and/or stop spending needlessly!  Each individual must start being totally responsible for their own well being.... no looking to the government for bailouts!!! They've already proven that it doesn't work!

Nov 27, 2009 04:43 AM
DEBORAH STONE
Balboa Real Estate San Diego, CA - San Diego, CA

Norm-

Some areas in San Diego have already rebounded and some are slow, but getting there. The biggest hit was to the condo market, not single fmaily residences overall.

I think "10 years" is really not a fair assessment for 100% of the housing market.....there are so many "micro-markets" that it is really unfair to put that time frame on it.

I do agree it most likely will be at least several years before major appreciation starts.

 

Nov 27, 2009 08:50 AM
Anonymous
Margie Callahan

Not all of we who are upside down are low lifes who mortgaged the farm to remodel the place and shop for a new car and wardrobe!!  Some of us are upside down after carefully putting down as much as 30% and buying down points to get our mortgage lower.  Despite a NON-ACORN-STYLE down payment and buying down points in 2007, my monthly mortgage payment is 25-30% more than I can rent my home for now, and as for selling, I'd have to pay another big chunk of change to get out.  My neighbors who were upside down and had no assets walked.  As most of you know, if we have other assets we cannot negotiate for a short sale.  If I had nothing to lose, I'd walk.  I'm with Norm:  I think we have a long time to go before we see any REAL turn around!  The greed on Wall Street and in Washington...and don't blame Bush for what Greenspan, Clinton, and Obama have done to cause crappy mortgages...has taken the most frugal and cautious people down.  Anyone with a solution better than my "paying to get out" scenario is welcome to comment.

Nov 27, 2009 09:29 AM
#69
Norm Werner
Real Estate One - Milford, MI
Helping the first time and every time

I'm a little amused, although not surprised to read remarks with such timeline inaccuracies as are in this string. Let's be honest folks, it was 24 years of largely unconstrained capitalism at its worst - from Ronald Regan through Clinton and the Bush years - that got us into the mess we find ourselves in now. We can all judge in a little while whether President Obama does any good at trying to get us out, but he did not get us into this mess. Whether you choose to also throw greedy or unwise homebuyers under the bus with the politicians is up to you. I didn't do a lot of the stupid things that are mentioned either as homebuyer mistakes; but, now my home is worth less than what I paid for it 10 years ago, too. I am fortunate that I do not have to do anything with it for now.

 I wrote another post several weeks back entitled "Just Walk Away Renee" that discussed the topic of whether it makes sense to take yourself totally down the tubes in order to "do the right thing" and keep trying to pay on an upside down mortgage with a lender who refuses to look at a loan modification with you. We have been raised to try to hold on, to be stoic in the face of adversity and hang in there, to do whatever it takes to get through adversity.

 My position then was NO it doesn't make sense to go down with the ship. Don't strip your retirement savings and your kids college fund to try top save an asset that is now worth less than what you owe. If you can't get a loan mod, walk away. Alternatives like short sales just don't make all that much sense and the lenders have been given every incentive by the government to try to work with you. If your lender won't discuss working with you to get to a program that you can afford, dump him and the house and move on with life.

 I would expect to get lots of pushback on this position from people, like me who were raised by parents who were the children of the Great Depression and who had that hang-tough mentality drummed into them by those parents. It's often referred to as a part of the American ethic, although its application to economic hard times is a modern adaptation of an ethic that likely served the early settlers well in their day-to0-day struggles just to survive.

 Certainly there were and are a number of homeowners who deserved what they got, because they made stupid decisions; however, there were many more who have found themselves mired in the muck of a mess that they had no part in making. These are people who bought within the last 10 years who have seen the values of the property that they invest in drop below what they paid.  Maybe they bought using an adjustable rate mortgage, since that made sense at the time or maybe their lots in life have changed and they now need to sell or refinance and find themselves trapped in upside-down situations. They didn't really make stupid decisions, they were just buyers at the wrong time and in the wrong places.

 Are we to tell those people, you must stand tall, salute and go down with your ship? No, I say. We must tell them that they must do the right thing for their families and for their own good. If that means walking away, then so be it.

Nov 27, 2009 12:26 PM
Mike Henderson
Your complete source for buying HUD homes - Littleton, CO
HUD Home Hub - 303-949-5848

Very sobering statistics.  The one good news was the 24 million homes that are owned free and clear.  This is great news.

Nov 27, 2009 12:28 PM
Jackie Cross
Real Living All Florida Realty - Port St Lucie, FL

I currently have a property that was bult & bought in the early 1980's and it is on the market for the same price paid for it brand new.  Still can not get offers on it even though it is half the price from recent years.  Here in St Lucie County we have nearly 1 in every 100 homes being in foreclosure.

Nov 28, 2009 02:40 AM
Barbara Birinyi
Quitman, TX
TX Real Estate Broker - Horse Property Specialist

Margie Callahan, Post #69 helps give all the real estate professionals posting here the reminder that we ALL can be personally affected through absolutely no fault of our own.  We can try to educate ourselves, but we can't prevent life's challenges...no matter how clever we think we are!  Best of luck to you Margie.  If you ever get to Texas, look me up!

Nov 28, 2009 06:58 AM
Norm Werner
Real Estate One - Milford, MI
Helping the first time and every time

It's interesting to see empathy for a fellow agent/investor who got swept away by the events of this great recession. That's basically what happened to the vast majority of the people who have been foreclosed. I know that there are those who were just stupid or greedy or whatever, who overreached in the face of their better common sense (if any); however, most of the people whom I have met who are in pre-foreclosure condition or beyond, actually made buying decision that are defensible when they are reviewed.

I've always though that the idiots who build houses in known flood plains (along the Mississippi River comes to mind) or on the beaches along the southeastern coast get what they deserved when the inevitable flood or hurricane comes and wipes out those homes. What did they expect? But those who are impacted by the "hundred year flood" or maybe a rare tornado have my empathy - it was through no fault of theirs.

So, now, along comes our "hundred year" recession (nobody wants to use the "D" word) and all of a sudden many of those defensible decisions have gone bad. Something that hasn't happened in the lifetimes of most people and certainly of most loan officers has happened - home prices have dramatically dropped. They have dropped so far that most homeowners who have purchased in the last decade would find themselves under water.

For most, as has been pointed out in this discussion that is not a problem. They will go on making their payments and waiting out the turn-around. However, for many whose fortunes have also been impacted by this hundred-year recession it is a disaster, just as surely as if the floodwaters had risen to where they never have risen before. Is it important that the culprit is a resetting ARM loan? Does it matter whether the issue is a loss of overtime or maybe the loss of a job by one of the working spouses? Should your decision on whether to feel empathy or not hinge upon whether the buyers perhaps reached a bit too far for the house that they are now losing?

No! Something has happened to our economy that has not happened since the Great (close your eyes if you can't stand seeing the word) Depression. Housing values have plummeted, not just dropped - plummeted. All of a sudden, the homeless are not just the bums sleeping in doorways in the city, they are your next door neighbors (or at least they were - tsk, tsk isn't that sad?).

And what about the rest of us - the "we's" as opposed to the "they's")? Could the flood waters be lapping at our doors too and maybe we don't even know it? You bet they are. While we were busy tutt-tutting about our neighbors our fiends at our credit card companies and our banks were busy raising our loan rates and adding new and improved fees, all in the name of the current economic crisis. Maybe the lenders haven't figured out a way to raise the interest rate and increase our payments on those 20-30year fixed mortgages, yet; but I'll bet they're working on it. And heaven help any of us who might find the need to refinance right now - just wait until your appraisal comes back. Perhaps in this case we need to replace the we's and them's with a big dose of US. All of US are in this mess together.  

Nov 28, 2009 07:44 AM
Jinx Cole
Crye-Leike - Brentwood, TN

I see young minds come into my office, ready to become a Realtor and "make those millions" in real estate of the future.  I just think to myself... if they only knew.  Being a Realtor requires due diligence, a very strong spine, and great work ethics.  There is no crystal ball.  I've had my license since I was 19 years old.  I thought I had seen it all...  until now.

We live in a very unique time for our profession.  The entire playing field of home ownership, and real estate investment is in an evolutionary process.  But let us never forget, the public looks to us at their guide.  We are the real estate professionals.

Nov 30, 2009 02:34 AM
Dana Hollish Hill
Hollish Hill Group, JPAR Stellar Living - Bethesda, MD
REALTOR * Broker * Coach

Norm - That unemployment animation is depressing, but very informative.

Have any of you noticed that your job has had a lot more emphasis on information dissemination this year?

I am an EBA and I find a lot of my job is providing information to prospects about what is happening in the local market. It has always been an important element of my job, but FTHBers are coming with a lot more questions than they have in the past. They seem to be a lot more cautious than in the last few years, but ready to move foward - not paralized on the sideline as in years past when their only question was about a bubble.

Thanks for the thought provoking post.

 

Dec 01, 2009 01:12 AM
Ed Vogt
Midwest Properties of Michigan - Grandville, MI
Grandville, MI Midwest Properties

I'm on the other side of the state, and we have basically the same issues here. 

Dec 02, 2009 03:15 AM
Marty and Laurie Gale
Utah Realty - South Jordan, UT
Utah Realty | 801-205-3500 | UtahRealtyPlace.com

I am in Utah and we are ranking 10 as the States with the highest negative equity rates.

Jun 04, 2010 04:36 AM