I called Redfin Today And......

Real Estate Agent with RE/MAX Compass, formerly RE/MAX WHP 0524642

Some people read the headlines off a tabloid when they're bored. I on the other hand find it interesting to investigate weird and strange occurrences that are intertwined with our industry. Unless you Realtors have been sleeping under a trillion tons of bed rock than you've heard of this ::clearing throat:: company called REDFIN.

I called the 800 number & SWEAR this song was playing while I was on hold:


I thought this was really funny. For those of you that can't follow the lyrics, it's titled .. Burning Down The House by the Talking Heads. After being on hold for about 5 minutes a guy answered and said he was with customer service. Here's what I found out.

1. Redfin only represents buyers looking $175,000.00 or better.

2. Redfin won't show a buyer who wants to look at Short Sales or any listing that has a "3rd party involved."

3. They are only available by phone until 6 p.m.

4. A buyer IS NOT guaranteed to work with the SAME agent throughout the entire process. A buyer may work with MULTIPLE "agents" while viewing properties and even during inspections. When a buyer is ready to submit offers they are asked to do so ONLINE with a TRANSACTION coordinator.

5. Redfin will only show 6 houses within a two hour period.


Redfin also advertises on their company website that they SPLIT the commission with their buyer.

Personally I find it unfortunate that a buyer looking up to say 160k cannot use Redfin. The message in my opinion is that "there isn't enough commission to share" so the deal isn't worth it. Doesn't this speak about the business model itself? What do you think?

Wouldn't you EXPECT to work with the same buyer's agent from start to finish? I would. I would be pissed if my agent whom I had just developed a level of trust with vanished!

Wouldn't you EXPECT the same agent who showed you properties to also be the one to SIT DOWN with you and explain the offer and do so in person versus doing it ONLINE with some TRANSACTION COORDINATOR! What is the transaction coordinators background, education and expertise? Is it the same as the agent who showed you property? Well, actually the same as ALL those agents who showed you different properties?

Wouldn't you EXPECT to be able to contact your REPRESENTATIVE at the office after 6 p.m.? I WOULD.

Wouldn't you EXPECT to have the ability to see maybe 8 houses in two hours? What if you were only in town that ONE day?

I'm curious as to JUST how dedicated an agent would work if he or she is spoon fed buyers, then only getting paid a salary to do so. Being a REALTOR for the MOST part means you are business person. An entrepreneur of sorts. You wear lots of different hats and you work you fanny off to BE THERE when the client needs to you the most. I've NEVER met a Realtor who got licensned with the intent to work for SOMEONE else. Maybe they HAVE to because they couldn't make it on their own. I'm not sure I'd want a washout representing me, but that's just my opinion.

Not all business models are created equal and not all are expected to operate the same. I do however believe that the HUMAN side of our industry can never be washed away by buying our clients or treating them like CELL PHONE customers. And I promise if you call me that I will never, ever have

BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE playing on my voicemail. Sort of fitting and ironic considering I called there to get information for this blog.



Posted by


Greg Nino
, Houston area Realtor®.
Helping residential buyers, sellers and tenants 7 days a week.
Available @ 832-298-8555 

RE/MAX Compass (Formerly RE/MAX WHP)





The information contained in this blog is believed to be reliable and while every effort is made to assure that the information is as accurate as possible, the author of this blog, and its comments disclaim any implied warranty or representation about it's accuracy, completeness or appropriateness for any particular purpose. All information is copywritten and the property of Greg Nino.  






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John Elwell
CENTURY 21 Bill Nye Realty, Inc. - Zephyrhills, FL

Kind of reminds me a bit of a local company that used a different business model in our area. During the boom the broker was the top agent/broker in the area. The very next year he was not only the lowest, his company was bankrupt. As I said in my earlier comment, an informed intelligent seller/buyer with a reasonable amount of common sense will make the right decision for their particular situation. And a lot of customers will appreciate the fact that we helped them get that $140,000 home on the way up and will hire us when they sell it later for $250,000. Keep it personal and build that loyalty. Why does that little local restaurant have a line outside the door. Because they greet you by name and treat you like a friend. Yet, the big franchise outfit down the road is now boarded up and out of business.

Dec 17, 2009 09:55 PM #66
Howard and Susan Meyers
The Hudson Company Winnetka and North Shore - Winnetka, IL

Change is threatening to anyone who is firmly planted in the status quo.  Technology and the internet in particular have created an evolution in almost every business and business model that had existed for decades.  For a long, long time, the residential real estate business has operated in a very consistant, predictable way.  

There have been countless internet start-ups that were actually great ideas...think Pets.com, Webvan, etoys, Lycos....but for whatever reason, crashed and burned.  However, ask the proprietor of your local bookstore, if they're still in business, about the effect that Amazon has had on their business.

I'm not suggesting that Redfin is the next Amazon, but I do know that many buying clients who I work with tell me that they can use any RE website to view properties, but they find Redfin to have the most user friendly platform.  I also find that many potential buyers, mostly under 30, list Redfin as their agent when they come to my broker open houses. 

What this is telling me is that we cannot rest on our laurels in expectation that the full service model that we have successfully utilized for a long time, will continue to be the model of choice in the future.  On the other hand, I don't want to write an obituary for it just yet either.  A reminder of how fast things can change is to look at the de-emphasis of print advertising in the past few years.  I suspect that most of you could not have fathomed that change only five years ago. 

Information is power and these days, the public has access to most of the information that was previously kept out of their view. 

The bottom line is that while there will always be a place for full-service brokers, there are going to be a growing number of clients whose highest priority is that they value what they view as saving money upfront.  Whether they are actually benfitting financially in these transactions is open to debate, but appearances can be everything

There is room enough for all ethical business models in the real estate arena.  Which ones will prevail and which will disappear is open for review.  Let's take another look at this puzzle in five years.



Dec 17, 2009 11:11 PM #67
Roland Woodworth
Keller Williams Realty - Clarksville, TN
Short Sale and Foreclosure Resource- SFR - Clarksv

This is all pretty interesting Greg.. and the choice of their music... ROFLMAO...

Dec 17, 2009 11:23 PM #68
Chris Olsen
Olsen Ziegler Realty - Cleveland, OH
Broker Owner Cleveland Ohio Real Estate

imho -- I love competition, a true meritocracy.  I think successful upstarts can shake up this arena that needs dramatic change.  But then again, I started my own company because I was tired of the status quo and nibbling around the edges.  Consumers want change, they want excellence, they want transparency.  However that gets created, as long as it's a fair, level and open playing field, I'm all for it.  Personally, I think they have the most incredible listing detail website on the planet.

Dec 17, 2009 11:30 PM #69
Wendy Rich-Soto Realtor/CEO,Real Estate Coach & Consultant
Keller Williams Realty, LA Harbor - San Pedro, CA
"Because IT IS all about YOU!"

Amen!  And guess what?  Some sellers are not real impressed with Redfin, their services and their agents so when they get several offers...even if the buyer thinks they are getting a check back...it won't matter if they don't get the house they want after all.  Not all that glitters is gold!

Dec 18, 2009 01:23 AM #70
Greg Nino
RE/MAX Compass, formerly RE/MAX WHP - Houston, TX
Houston, Texas

Wendy - thanks for expressing your opinion.

Chris - full svc Realtors need to be challenged by competition. I always suggest attacking methods & not people. I detest how Redfin blanketed ALL Realtors "originally." I'm very content with them making retractions &  making omissions to their original strategies when it comes to the traditional model.

Rolan - I was laughing too.

Howard & Susan - Very  nice touch! I really appreciate your comment! You are right about change. I also agree that technology has a tendency to "scare" the weak and stupid. I love advancement and appreciate what's best for the public. I do however HATE that Redfin started out with their ugly approach. I will not let it go unrenounced.

John - EXCELLENT point about the people business! Thanks for sharing.

Gary - As you know, our industry is HUGE & we, as you state have plenty of room for everyone!

Lane - lol, maybe I'm just late to the defensive rally? I appreciate your insight!

Jeani - YUP! I agree. No matter how ANY company defends their approach I would agree! DISCOUNT SERVICE EQUALS DISCOUNT RESULTS!

Frank - What a load of crap. I know that Redfin "used" to ask their buyers to go through the listing agent, but no more from what they advertise now. I guess the realized they'd have to "earn" their 33%

Brian Brady - with respect and no insult intended, I find it cute how Redfin circles the wagons on posts like mine. Were you called to action??

Marc - be attentive, they will conquer the world! ;)


You seem like a nice guy who certainly has a level of higher thinking, so please don't bullshit me. Just answer my questions, if you are allowed by Redfin. If not, just ignore this comment.

1. Why does Redfin need an additional "ten million dollars" in vc funds to operate if the model is sound, tested, proven and capable?

2. you didn't answer my question about Redfin employees. What were there "avg" stats PRIOR to becoming your TOP PRODUCERS? Remember, their stats are certainly increased because they are DIFFERENT than an avg Realtor who isn't working for a LARGE company such as REDFIN. PLEASE ANSWER!

3. If your model is ethically sound...... you so stated.. "an agent who is paid a salary to do the right thing." THEN WHY DID YOU GUYS COME OUT ATTACKING ME & MY FELLOW AGENTS? DID YOU THINK THIS WOULD GIVE YOU AN EDGE? Please don't be evasive, lie or be cute with the answer. This is a public blog and the PUBLIC has a right to know why YOUR company felt it necessary to launch an assault on MY fellow Realtors. So PLEASE shoot us straight and save the corporate talk for the water cooler. POSTING PHOTO'S of REALTORS ON YOUR WEBSITE AND BASHING THEM IS LOW, LOW CLASS AND VERY TELLING.

4. HOW do you plan on surviving in HOUSTON? You said earlier that your average client was $500,000 client? We aren't even close to that?

5. If you promote yourself on MY BLOG, than I suggest you man up and have the professional courtesy to answer my questions. Otherwise, do not reply. The public has an expectation of fair play when it comes to being shot straight. Fair enough?


I've said it 10 times and I'll say it again..... I LOVE COMPETITION and I LOVE CHOICES FOR CONSUMERS... what I detest are backstabbers. I hate that Redfin attacked me, and every fellow Realtor in America and then, only then after learning that they had no choice, did they decide to "buddy" with us.

I guess my feeling is that whatever you believe in you better be right about it.  You guys slashed at 1.2 million Realtors and like many others learned that you need us more than you realized. I hope for the consumers sake that you STAY on the honest the right path of being true, fair and open about your intentions.


Thanks everyone for the candor, opinion and thoughts. I have always believed that 1+1 = 2 no matter my feelings. What's right is right, regardless how I like or feel about it. If Redfin somewhow dominates the global real estate mkt, than so be it. I'll embrace it, learn from it and welcome it. I'll do this because the consumer has demanded it.


Once you've sold a dream you're golden, just ask Redfin. No wonder I struggle with investors...



Dec 18, 2009 03:15 AM #71
Kris Wales
Keller Williams Realty - Lakeside Market Center - Macomb, MI
Real Estate Blog & Homes for Sale search site, Macomb County MI

Sounds like they won't be in my area at all.  I haven't had one home purchase this year over $180,000.  If they do decide to market to consumers in a devastated distressed market they'd probably get some calls from consumers wanting that rebate of their hard earned devalued dollar.

Dec 18, 2009 05:46 AM #72
J. Philip Faranda
J. Philip Faranda (J. Philip R.E. LLC) Westchester County NY - Briarcliff Manor, NY


I am a Redfin referral agent, which means that I work an area where they don't have a dedicated office and get business referred from them. I pay them a referral fee. Buyers get a small rebate. I don't work for the company. I agree that their earlier splash was arrogant and ill advised; Glen Kelman, whom I have met twice, admits this but he can't un-ring that bell. 

They have a good website, and the consumers in our area love them. I've been impressed with them thus far, and I want to address, as an independent broker owner, your observations. 


  1. The $175,000 price thing. There is very little in my market place for that price, so I suspect that is why they have chosen the markets they currently work. I have worked with Redfin co op buyers for below that price, and if/when it closes, I will not be charged a referral fee. Seems fair. 
  2. I remember seeing something on their site dissuading people from buying short sales because of the red tape involved. I remember you blogging that you didn't want to work with short sale buyers either. 

    That was actually the first blog I ever read of yours, and if I judged you by that posting, I wouldn't have the high opinion of you that I have (full disclosure: I subscribe to Greg's blog, I recently friended him on Facebook, and I think he is a very likable, funny guy). I think the rationale is they can't offer their clients the Redfin Experience if the deal involves the clear prospect of a multiple month red tape nightmare with a a possible clueless gnu on the listing side working their first short sale. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and I don't think you can knock them for having the same opinion of short sales as you have. 
  3. The 800 number might close at 6pm but no agent closes their phone at that time, and I sure don't. I know the local manager, Michael Daly, and that guy is as much of a workaholic as I am. The transaction coordinator thing, I think, is a relic from their genesis. If a transaction coordinator from Redfin called and told me they were taking over I'd hang up. My clients, my deal, period. 
  4. Buyers can switch agents if they choose. I can also "throw back" a buyer if I don't feel they are a match to get them a better match. This can be because of personality, change in geography, or any other valid reason. It is the same with any other brokerage. I don't see an inconsistency. 
  5. I never heard of that and have never been held to that standard. I think they are managing expectations of consumers. 6 showings in 2 hours is reasonable, but I certainly wouldn't punch my clock if we had 6 showings in 90 minutes. Moreover, I've never been asked to. 

I've decried discount operations in my area who have employed crummy agents seeking a salary, because those agents often suck. Referral agents like myself aren't on salary, and we are held to pretty high standards, including having all past clients (redfin or not) surveyed with the results posted online. That takes balls. 

There is more to say but I'll post something on my blog when I have more time. 


Dec 18, 2009 06:54 AM #73
Cheryl Ritchie
RE/MAX Leading Edge www.GoldenResults.com - Huntingtown, MD
Southern Maryland 301-980-7566
I'm glad you wrote this post. One of my clients loves that site and mentions it frequently so now I know why I had not heard of them before.
Dec 18, 2009 07:03 AM #74
Judy Greenberg
Coldwell Banker Long Grove - Buffalo Grove, IL
Coldwell Banker - Buffalo Grove - Long Grove Homes

i just worked with a very competent Redfin agent.    If they bring me buyers for my listings, I don't really care how much they rebate their clients. 

Dec 18, 2009 07:38 AM #75
Michael Daly
Redfin Real Estate - Huntington, NY

Having been a traditional real estate agent, broker, VP Operations and broker/owner for 10 years before joining Redfin earlier in 2009, I understand why so many of you are skeptical of new, non-traditional business models that look like they could impact the income structure of the business.

You will notice that most of the negative, fear-based comments, including those of the generator of this blog are from agents in a market where Redfin does not do business or they have not had the opportunity to work with a Redfin agent. Once you do, we're confident you will be impressed with our technology, our fanatical customer service and most of all, the regularity in which we bring buyers to your listings.

Here in New York, one of the most entrenched traditional markets in the country, agents have been inquisitive about our business model, yet have been, for the most part, very welcoming. I suspect that, once we have an opportunity to expand to your market, you will appreciate working with us and realize that not every style or business model is right for every consumer. Your business may increase because there will be a segment of the market that will use our services that your listings may not have reached otherwise.

And yes, as we grow, we have and continue to make mistakes every day...haven't you? We are constantly  exploring new ways to reach more consumers, please more customers and strengthen our partnerships with other Realtors.  I have seen many of the "mistakes" that have been levied above committed by traditional agents who have no accountability because the are independent contractors. Our agents are employees who are held to performance standards as well as to the standards of our customers, who regularly complete surveys on their experience with our agents and team members. ALL of these survey results are posted on our site, not just the ones we want you to see. Check it out if you have not already at www.redfin.com

Again, I understand the source of many of these comments, and look forward to working with many of you in the not to distant future.

Dec 18, 2009 09:06 AM #76
Gregory Bain
Mezzina Real Estate & Insurance - Little Egg Harbor, NJ
For Homes on the Jersey Shore

Blog comment #76 says, "I have seen many of the "mistakes" that have been levied above committed by traditional agents who have no accountability because the are independent contractors."

NOT TRUE. All agent actions are fully accountable by the BROKER of record where the license hangs and in most cases the local board, state license committee, and the ever so popular NAR.

I have nothing against different business models. My complaint is with my association that made settlement with the DOJ over sharing our listing information. The DOJ is wrong and the NAR is wrong.

Dec 18, 2009 09:26 AM #77
Greg Nino
RE/MAX Compass, formerly RE/MAX WHP - Houston, TX
Houston, Texas

J. Philip - good point. You're correct, I don't work short sales because I don't have to. We have a short sale guru on our team. All he does is list these types of properties for our clients. We believe in choices for clients as well. Last month I listed  short sale and closed it with one of our own buyers agents. I did this as a training and method to teach, help and grow our fellow agent. In the end we were paid a total of 1.5% commission. I made just over $1,100.00 on my end. The money wasn't important, saving the client from foreclosure was. Imagine if refused to "help" that client because their home was "too" inexpensive for my taste. The consumer would have lost for certain. That same buyers agent is showing "investors" multiple short sale listings in the area. I don't retract my "members only" post that you've posted on my "public post."

Dec 18, 2009 10:10 AM #78
Will Bateson
Every market is different. Redfin's model has been very well received by young, professional people in upscale markets. Scoff at them all you want, they are force to be reckoned with. My personal choice is to compete against them in my market by offering buyer rebates similar to theirs, but focusing on my local area (east bay). I choose to support short sales, but do not offer rebates on them. If you've never heard of them or they are not in your market yet, don't be giddy. Consumers love them, and most of their consumers are young and very tech savvy. The day is coming, either for them to enter your market, or make referral agreements with other agents already in your market. Plan on competing with them in the future. They've got deep pockets and a lot of consumer fans.
Dec 18, 2009 12:08 PM #79
Matt Goyer
Redfin - Seattle, WA


Here are more answers with no bullshitting! :)

Re: Circling the wagons. Having a featured post about Redfin on the front page of Active Rain will attract people from both sides of the debate. I did link to this post on Twitter but I'd hardly call that circling the wagons!

Re: #1. Why do we need more money? We need more money because, while profitable, we didn't have any cushion/margin of error. So we raised money to give us a cushion and to make a few big bets. Some of those bets include expansion, some are technology related and some involve hiring a lot more agents (we've doubled the number of agents in the last three months.)

Re: #2. What are the stats for agents before they join Redfin. For this we haven't run the numbers. If we did, I think they'd be low. But keep in mind Redfin doesn't attract top producers. If you're an agent who can kill it on every front: marketing, sales, customer service, etc. there's no reason for you to come join Redfin. If you're an agent who isn't a fan of selling themselves or doing their own marketing, but loves helping clients, then Redfin is a great fit. For those agents, we'll turn them into top producers because they can focus 100% of their time on helping customers. They spend 0% of their time on marketing because our website sends them a steady stream of active buyers. 

Re: #3. Why did we attack other agents. We came out very pro-consumer. There were practices that we saw in the industry that we didn't like and called them out. In hindsight we've learned that the best way to deal with those issues is to work with agents one-on-one, or talk to their broker, or to just set an example and build the real estate company we think consumers want. We've very sorry about our actions in our early years but that was three or four years ago. I think if you met any of us in person, or you read what we have written recently, you'll find us to be much more humble. 

Re: #4. How are we going to come to Houston? The cities/neighborhoods/suburbs in Texas that have higher dollar values we'll come with our own agents. For the areas where prices are lower we'll partner with agents and send them referrals.

Re: #5. Answering your questions. I'm happy to answer all your questions, not trying to evade any! Also, I'm not answering these questions to promote myself (I'm not an agent) or Redfin (I suspect very few customers find out about Redfin via Active Rain). I answer these questions to take the mystery out of what we're doing. I think if everyone knew more about Redfin they'd find it less scary.

Re: Backstabbing. Very sorry for how we initially approached the industry. Please accept my apology for what we did in the early years. If we started again today we'd do things differently. Keep in mind we were also attacking ourselves. We now have hundreds of agents working for Redfin or are affiliated with Redfin (like J Philip Faranda). 

Re: Competition. We love competition too. Competition is good for consumers. It gives them choices and gets us all to improve. 

Re: whatever you believe in you better be right about it. We have no intentions of straying from the honest path of being true, fair and open. I just sat down this morning for an hour with a few traditional agents to talk about Redfin and am having lunch with another one. There's no secrets here. We're happy to share exactly how we do business. We firmly believe in transparency.


Dec 18, 2009 01:07 PM #80
Greg Nino
RE/MAX Compass, formerly RE/MAX WHP - Houston, TX
Houston, Texas

All in all a good convo, thanks everyone.

Dec 21, 2009 06:28 PM #81
Thomas Johnson
RE/MAX TOP - Houston, TX
SRES, Green

Redfin is profitable on their income statement.  That means that they have more money coming in than going out.  My question: What about the VC guys $50 million?  Redfin is paying the rent, the salaries of the IT dept and the agents' salaries and health insurance.  Somebody just gave them another $10 million-Bernanke's zero interest rate policy at work there.  I guess the VC dudes figure if they are going to make zero in government bonds, they can just as easily make zero in Redfins.  Redfin is going to run out of $500,000 houses real quick.  Greg Swann at http://Bloodhoundblog.com put a break even sales price for Redfin at $250,000 a couple years ago.  I have always felt that Redfin's investors are playing for a Bank of America or Wells Fargo buyout.  The company has the bank CSR mentality agents in place(very nice folks, please give me a good rating on our survey - I can win a tote bag-no showings after 6PM, please).  Unfortunately some of the buyers that they may have had in mind are gone-Countrywide and Merrill Lynch come to mind.  The IPO market for real estate is somewhere over China. So now Redfin has to stay alive by finding every "geek with money" (Glenn Kelman's target market) in America that might buy a house through a cool website.

When they come to Houston, I can think of about half a dozen zipcodes where they might be able to hold a $350,000 median sales price.  When they come here with the salaried agents I have one bit of advice for Glenn and Matt: car allowance.  You won't keep them running from Sugar Land to the Woodlands (200 mile RT) for very long without it.  My guess is that Redfin's Texas entry will be DFW.

Dec 21, 2009 11:20 PM #82
Greg Nino
RE/MAX Compass, formerly RE/MAX WHP - Houston, TX
Houston, Texas

Thomas - so very, very true! They will certainly have a challenge with that! I agree with you about their model, profit margin and length of likely survival. I can't see how anyone can be successful for the long term when you "buy" their business. As it stands it costs me 40% of every check to run my shop. I can't imagine doing all that I do and also "giving back" 2/3rds of my pay. It's unthinkable. These guys solely depend on VOLUME in order to survive. VOLUME as we all know doesn't equate to quality. Like you stated, they won't find "quality" agents willing to drive all over our city for $4.34 in commission.

Welcome them with open arms. Let them spend hundred's of thousands of dollars in advertising just like Assist To Sell, Buy Owner and the countless other companies who thought they could "come to cow town" & run our homeowners from their money. Bad news travels at light speed in Houston and surrounding areas when it comes to Real Estate "companies" and the stinch that follows.

Blaze your trail.

Dec 22, 2009 12:11 AM #83
Thomas Johnson
RE/MAX TOP - Houston, TX
SRES, Green

Remember, they not only have to cover agent salaries, but a huge IT overhead which may or may not be calculated into their "profitability", all on 4 grand gross commission or so per deal. Those "nice non marketers" also can't sell. Kelman says so. To wit:


Redfin's referral agents blow the doors off their salary folks. Good salespeople "connect" or "click" with clients because we have hearts.  I find it telling that agent productivity is not a hiring criteria. Say what?

If I am Kelman's VC I want to know why he hasn't rolled out the referral/partner agent business line in every market. The deals close faster and probably with a higher net after not having to carry at least grand a month in benefits. If J Philip is an indication, looks like there is 1.25-2% for the partner, maybe .5% client rebate max and maybe a 3/4 point to Redfin with no addition costs laid on top of their fixed overhead. I would be screaming to get more revenue off my $50 million machine. Or. cut my losses and sell to Google for a day or two of PPC ads.


Dec 22, 2009 12:51 AM #84
Joe cline
I think redfin will enter Austin as the Texas entrance. Just saw in our realtor mag that they designated a realtor here. I wonder if theyknow how many limited service brokers we already have in Texas? Should be a quick way to burn thru some of that $10 million! :) one of the other nasty out of the gate discounters who accused all agents of being scumbags is here in Austin but aren't making blanket accusations anymore either. They got humbled too and now are rolled into PLR I think.
Jul 02, 2010 04:25 AM #85
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