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18 Comments on Do Commissions Offered on REO and Short Sales Put Pressure on Non-distressed Listings?
Good post, I agree, it really shouldn't matter but it does. I don't think the listing agents decision should affect buyer agent compensation, but I guess that's the purpose of a Buyer Representation agreement, so that they don't have to!
Commission should not matter but in the real world it does, a higher commission on a home causes it to sell quicker
Gotta echo Andrew on that. We know that the buyer's agent should be representing the buyer's best interest, but at times the agent will determine what's in the buyer's best interest by looking at what's in their own best interest. Some listing agents even use that scenario to negotiate even higher than usual commisions from their clients.
Your points are money, baby! Oh yeah. Wait a minute, what was I talking about? Oh yeah. Commissions. Yeas, they can vary, and yes some agents put their wallets ahead of their clients.
All I can say is that while we may want what is best for our clients, we have to walk a fine line on this subject. If we are going to take a 5% listing...we better be willing to pony up 3% of it to the listing agent or our seller may take a hit on their price because you know there are agents that refuse to show listings that aren't offering 3%. While in my 8+ years as a Realtor I have always been personally offended by that practice it is out there and it can really hurt a seller if the commission to the selling side is 2.5% or less.
The very last part rang a bell with me, the fact that the listing agent has to pay a referral fee should in no way interfere with the compensation that is due a buyer's agent
If you wish to list REO pay your own referral fee as required by the listing agreement. The last REO closing I had the Listing agent attempted to split the commission 50/50 after deducting that fee. The closing statement prepared by the REO & their lender client had the buyers agent pay without that deducted. I may not never have an opportunity to fairly cooperate with that agent because that listing agent was very mad at me for my insisting I was not taking less, because nothing was referred to me. It was a very unpleasant experience. Since I have had my share of Listing from REO's I do understand how it all works.
Martin,
Commission posts always get us riled up! What can I add here? Get all listings at 6%!
Martin,
Commission posts always get us riled up! What can I add here? Get all listings at 6%!
You ask/state "So what happens when more likely than not, a 6% commission is paid by the "seller" in a short sale or REO transaction, and the compensation to the buyer's agent is less than what other comparable listings may offer? Should the buyer request that the listing agent share more of his commission with the buyer's agent? Well again, there is no standard answer."
To try and negotiate the commission in the contract is a violation under ethics for NAR members plus it may also pose a tortuous (hope I spelled that correctly) violation at law and be grounds for a suit... in short you don't get between a seller and his/her client nor a buyer and his/her client.
You also state/imply the commission is based upon the effort the agent is going to apply... is that in the agreement someplace? I think not... it is based upon the skill of the agent or perceived skill and the agents ability to negotiate. HOPEFULLY the higher priced commissions are for a reason and not hot air or wishful thinking... and generally the better agents will command better rates of pay... at least on the listing side. (at least in those instance where negotiating a commission actually occurs).
Perrin - I'm not an attorney, so I really can't comment on what is a "tortuous violation at law" - but I do hope that you are also not suggesting that the NAR Code of Conduct is a legal document!
In states where designated agency is mandated, it is very openly discussed with our buyer clients that an exclusive buyer's agent fee is x% of the sales price. We can usually obtain this from the compensation offered by the listing agent. however in instances where the compensation offered by the listing agent is less than our stated fee - the buyer client has two options: a) request that the seller make up the difference as a condition of the purchase and sale or b) to compensate the buyer's agent directly. We do this up front. It is not interfering with another broker's listing or relationship with his client.
Although I don't want to go too far off tangent, it is my experience that many listing agents fail to discuss how the marketing of the listing can be affected by not offering enough compensation to the buyer's side. I am also aware of many instances where the listing agent amends the MLS for compensation to the buyer's side that has not been discussed or agreed to by the seller (in an effort for the listing agent to retain more of the commission). Is that ethical? To me, this is more harmful to the seller because (as others have also commented) - buyer agents want to be compensated for their efforts too.
I tell my agents that if we agree to a certain commission level with a seller client, they still must offer an attractive level of compensation to the buyer's agent. If we wish to "discount" the fee for the listing side, that is our business decision. Since we do not allow dual agency or direct deals, our job is to find a co-broker to bring us the buyer. Money talks in this business and not all agencies require exclusive buyers agency agreements. Therefore, (sadly), certain agents will not show a property unless the compensation offered is deemed sufficient.
To make this point clearer, do you see the so-called "discount brokers" reduce the level of commission offered to the buyer side just because they return 20% of their side of the commission to their client? Do companies that participate in UPromise reduce the buyer's side commsision because they pay 20% of their commission to their client's UPromise account? The answer is no, in both cases.
In Rhode Island I have yet to see where a buyers' agent gets less of a commission than the listing Agent. In fact, the Buyers Agent actually gets more.
Couple of examples...Hud homes, the listing agent gets 1% and the Buyers Agent gets up to 5%.
I have personally listed many REO homes and after all was said and done (fees, percentages back to Asset Companies) I have many times ended up with 1% and the Buyers Agent ended up with 3% PLUS a $2,000 BONUS!
Because I also am an ABR and work with lots of first time buyers, I enjoy the commissions I receive on the Buyer side and probably expend a lot less work than on the listing side.
All in all, I believe that a "good" Realtor will do their very best irregardless of what the commission may be. However, that does not mean they should not negotiate the highest commsissions they can for both themselves and the Buyer Agent.
Don't know about you, but, as a Realtor, I work "for free" quite a bit and need to actually live on commissions.
I won't comment on the commission rate, but I want to emphasize something you brought up: There is NO promised/must have split to a LA/BA. The LA negotiates his commission with the seller, and tells the seller how much (percentage or flat fee) he will co-broke to a BA.
Many times it's split 50/50. Sometimes, not.
I see agents who showed a property and were happy to take a co-broke.... until they realized the LA is getting more than 50%. Suddenly they are not so happy.
Why not? If you're happy with x, and don't know the LA's total fee, why are you so unhappy later?
There is no 50/50 law.
Interesting post. I often don't bother to look at the co-broke offering in the listing, but lately there are some here who are offering compensation for $1 or just a couple hundred dollars. Excuse me for thinking of my own livelyhood, but I gotta check for those.
This statement is wrong:
"the maximum commission that they will allow a Realtor to charge when handling a short sale or foreclosure listing on their behalf."
It's the maximum that they are willing to pay. As a broker, you can charge more.
Satar -
My intention was to state that the 6% is the maximum that they will allow the listing broker to charge them. Thank your for pointing this out since it may not have been clear to others.
NAR side, no I am not saying it is a legal doc. And yes you can have a brokerage agreement with your client the buyer in the form of an agency agreement. That is between you two and yes it can say if you don't make x then they will pay you x+ or whatever. BUT as an ethics issue you cannot negotiate your side of the commission, when you represent the buyer, in the purchase and sale and in my read you seemed to imply you could. You can also get a co-brokerage agreement at 50% but that is a different issue.
The legal theory...and it is just that... comes in if a seller had a contract with you (listing agreement) and an outside person...(selling agent)... tries to interfere with that agreement in any form...i.e. negotiate the commission with the seller...
Martin, the buyer broker also has to work a whole lot harder if the property is a short sale or foreclosure. And one way to shoot a reputation to pieces is to offer the buyer broker less than half of what you are being paid. And it all shows up on the HUD-1 at settlement. And I think I would prefer to sell a non-distressed property at a lower commission than a distressed one at a higher rate.
This is a very tricky area. No guarantees that the split between Listing and Buyer Broker will be 50/50 of the total commission.