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See The Trojan Horse? Timeo Danaos Et Dona Ferentes

By
Real Estate Broker/Owner with Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408

Linda Mae Croom posted A Huge Step Forward for Americans... It was meant as a declaration of support of Health Care for Americans. It turned as the support for President Obama and great dealmakers/lawbreakers lawmakers in the Senate.

If it is about Health Care, why so many doctors are against it? Why so many people are against it? References to religion and Bible are to support Linda's point of view, but you can always find wisdom there both for and against...

HealthSupporters keep talking about the health care, and it is NOT about health care. Because it is enough to listen to doctors to understand it, it is enough to simply open our ears, and open our mind.

Oh, this is a wonderful thing that Obama and his government brings to us.

Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes     

Don't you see the Trojan Horse being brought in?

I am coming from the country with the universal health care, and it was considered an exemplary one. And please, spare me from "this one will be different". Because it will be more the same than different. If you start castrating using a different method, yes, those will be castrated differently, but all of them will not have kids. How difficult is it to understand?

Many countries have universal health care, you are correct, Karen Anne. When Raul Castro, I read somewhere, needed an appendectomy, he flew to Germany. Because he was Raul Castro. The rest of the people couldn't, and have to use a universal one.

I see Canadians coming to US for surgeries. A dear friend of mine in New York has just been opearted on. She has breast cancer. She will be given that powerful new drug, that helps dramatically improve the survival rate for this type of cancers. In England doctors can't prescribe this drug. The rate of survival there is much lower. It is an expensive drug. Do I need to tell her that she is lucky she got cancer now rather than in 5 years? Do you hear me? Lucky to have cancer here... today?

It is a political move on the part of the government and it is an unbelievable desire of the citizens to destroy the very core of their own nation. We destroy it from the inside, with our own hands...

Health Care is the same pawn as other things, all of which are parts of unprecedented power grab. Is it building a political Mausoleum for the Messiah (for now just political, brick and mortar could follow).

Health care is not religion. It is not about religion.

The new system may start giving offspring that we do not see now, and which will be like cancer for the society. We are embracing the intentions, but good intentions pave the road to hell. Making sweeping changes based on the intentions is dangerous, and precedents are plenty.

Constitution has set what are our rights. Adding to this list not only can backfire (and not in unprecedented way, no, because precedents are all over the world and all over relatively recent history, just open your eyes), but WILL backfire...

It is not a Christmas light, which you can turn off after the Holiday. Once on the way, you can't turn back.

HealthCan anybody explain why we need to sign today while we are not going to see any implementation (except the taxes, which... read Obama's lips) for another 4 years. Which part of it is Health? Which part of it is about Health?

Do not tell me BS that if not today, then never. The whole country is ready to talk and make changes to Health Care. The whole country is ready to work on that. This is Obama and HIS government who do not want us to talk about it, who do not want us to discuss it.

But some want to usurp it and become the giving hand. Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes  

Do you know that the giving hand is the taking hand?  Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes  

Do you know that the giving hand is a punishing hand?  Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes  

Why do you, people, want us to lose? Because we will.

P.S. When we need a surgery, before putting us on the table, they make us sign the papers giving the doctors the right to do what they see needed if the find something during the surgery. And then they put you to sleep. We have to trust the skills and the judgement of the doctor.

As a nation, we will sign tomorrow that we allow the administration to do with us what they find necessary without asking us, as we are going to be sedated...

Do we trust the administration with our lives? Or, better, why do we trust them with our lives? If something goes wrong, we will not even know... We will be unconscious... Like we are now?

Watch the video. Take time to listen to Bill Frist. He is a doctor. Listen carefully. Think well. Thank you for the effort.

* images courtesy of Flickr.com

Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

By the way... the real group of health care providers... the American Nurses Association... just announced their backing of this bill.  They are the ones on the front line of health care... and they're the ones whose opinions I trust and value the most.  Honestly, if they had come out against it, I would have had to totally reassess my position, and see where I went wrong in supporting the bill.  If anyone should be nominated for sainthood... it would be the nurses.

Dec 23, 2009 02:09 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Karen Anne - you gotta be joking. Isn't it the same as to judge any housing initiatives by measuring what NAR says?

American Nirses Associaton, as well as American Medical Association, if I understand it correctly, are about nurses and doctors, not about patients, meaning us.

The fact that they support the bill means that it may be not good for us. We got to look at this support with a serious suspicion. They are for the good of the providers - in thhis case nurses.

 

Dec 23, 2009 05:20 PM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Now Jon... be nice now... it's Christmas.  Notice... I did NOT say anything about the Doctor's Group... the American Medical Association.  The doc's get rich, some are miracle workers, some are not, but it is the NURSES who end up cleaning up after them... and taking care of the messes many of them leave behind.

I know a modest number of Doctors... and I would not take the word of their Association.  BUT... I know many, many nurses... and KNOW that they are not in it for the "big bucks."  These are, for the most part, incredibly dedicated women... and who work their tails off taking care of their patients.

In my opinion... the American Medical Association... and the American Nursing Association... are like NIGHT and DAY !  Also... if I were to guess... and this is just my "feeling" here... I would guess that most doctors are conservative, and probably Republicans... and most nurses are progressive Democrats.  Remember... this is just my gut guess from knowing so many nurses.  Nurses... are "angels in disguise."

Dec 23, 2009 05:33 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Karen Anne - but their approval still means nothing to the patients, who, by the way are, if dying, are dying of cancer, for example, and democratic nurses or republican doctors ... what this has to do wiith health care?

I also do not undestand the juxtapositon of nurses and doctors. They may be cleaning hte mess, but they would not remove the tumors, or do other procedures.

Byt the way, you can always make doctors clean the mess, but you will never have nurses do open heart surgery.

They may be the best angels in the world, but do we want to have the health care, where we bet on G-d only?

P.S. I know quite a number of nurses in New York, and I have not noticed that they are democrats.

Dec 23, 2009 06:05 PM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Sorry Jon:  You're getting a little too much for me, here.  Re-read my comments.  This is getting tiring... when I write something... try to spell it out... and it ends up appearing that you cannot get the point of what I am trying to say.  So... take care... Have a Great and Merry Christmas... and "see you on the next post."

Dec 24, 2009 12:43 AM
Lane Bailey
Century 21 Results Realty - Suwanee, GA
Realtor & Car Guy

Karen-Anne, I guess you haven't read Obama's book.  He had a cocaine period...  And I would say that several of his associates are people that had hatred for America and what she stood for... 

Dec 24, 2009 10:32 AM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Lane:  No, I have not read any of Obama's books.  And... as far as the rest of your comment... although I love my country... I am not very proud of some of the things America has done.  A unilateral invasion of a country that did nothing to us is a good start.  And that... you can blame on Cheney and his years and years of lies.  If we had left Iraq alone... sooner or later it's own people would have taken care of it's problem... just like the USSR did.

Sorry... have to leave now.  Gotta get ready for Midnight Mass.  Will I see you there ?

Dec 24, 2009 11:09 AM
Yolanda Hoversten
Self Employed - O'Fallon, IL
Referrals for O’Fallon, IL & the Metro East

Hi, Jon.  It would appear that the Dems got what they want for Christmas...perhaps the voters will have what they want come mid-term elections.

Have a Merry Christmas!  Plenty to talk about after the holidays.  ;)

Dec 24, 2009 12:42 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Yolanda - Merry Christmas!

It is not something new in politics, when you do somethhing with total disregard to the will of people, and hope that they would eat it. It is actually a very popular thing.

We will see if America would do the same.

Dec 24, 2009 04:01 PM
Lane Bailey
Century 21 Results Realty - Suwanee, GA
Realtor & Car Guy

Karen Anne...  Are you talking about our invasion of Germany?  Maybe North Korea?  Vietnam?  Panama?  Or are you talking about another country that violated international treaties? 

;^ )

I've been sick, no late nights for me...

Dec 25, 2009 12:31 PM
Lisa Hill
Florida Property Experts - Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Beach Real Estate

I'm with you on this one. I'm completely against any government-run or even subsidized health care! People seem to be so desperate to get what they want that they're not seeing the potential casualties in the long-run! We DO NOT need more government! If anything, we need to kick them all out and start over!

Dec 25, 2009 04:24 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Lisa - that's exactly what bothers me. We refuse to look beyond today and the cliches. Very is little if anything that government does really well, and we fall for  "this time it will be charm". We terribly confuse what we would like to believe in, with what will be in reality.

We are afraid to try things in the restaurants, that we did not try before, we would be terrified to visit a country, where shower is not an everyday occasion, but we are not afraid to experiment with something, that can be so damaging if it does not work.

"because if will work" is a religion, not a reality, and it may get you a lot of surprises in the future. It is a great idea with killer details that would derail the whole thing in a heartbeat. A very expensive experiment, indeed.

Merry Christmas!

Dec 25, 2009 04:35 PM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Lane:  You know very well I am talking about the US invasion of Iraq.  Why are you playing games ?  The United States invaded Iraq while Cheney was President... and did so unilaterally... using Cheney's lies, false information, and a very glaring LACK of information.  They were not even aware of the difference... and the animosity between Sunni and Shia Islamists.  Then, once Saddam was overthrown, all that was keeping these two branches of Islam apart was gone.  Thus... the mess that has lasted for years.

Dec 25, 2009 04:39 PM
Lane Bailey
Century 21 Results Realty - Suwanee, GA
Realtor & Car Guy

Karen. and you know that "Cheney's lies" were also the same operational truths that Clinton operated under.  The information didn't change between Clinton and Bush.  Only the reaction.  Had that not been the case, Hillary wouldn't have voted for the wa, and Bill would have spoken out.  In fact, that is a large part of the reason Sandy Burglar Burger had to steal documents from the Archives... 

Remember the Iraqi Freedom Act...

Dec 26, 2009 01:57 PM
Jon Zolsky
FunCoast Realty 386-405-4408 - Ponce Inlet, FL
your Daytona Condo Agent

Jon - a very interesting video. Makes you think. Too many things that are not clear, and too little time to figure it out

Dec 30, 2009 06:17 AM
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Savvy + Company (704) 491-3310 - Charlotte, NC
The RIGHT CHARLOTTE REALTOR!

Hi Jon!  Well, as you know, I can weigh in with honest, REAL knowledge of the healtcare system as I lived and breathed it for 20 years!  Only 17% of physicians actually belong to the AMA and even fewer nurses belong to the ANA.  You see in the medical profession, we are not mandated to belong to any organizations like we are in real estate.  As a matter-of-fact, I still hold my nursing license--4 years of busting my ass in college while everyone else had a blast is enough to make me hold onto that license!  And, I never belonged to the ANA, nor do I know anyone who does!

I worked in one of the nation's largest teaching facilities which housed nursing schools and residency and internship programs for physicians.  I know lots of folks from the medical profession and I can tell you that not ONE single one of them is in favor of this socialistic style healthcare bill.  Not ONE!  We have patients come from all across the world from socialistic countries to have surgeries performed here.  We have nurses and doctors who relocate here from socialistic countries because of the insanely POOR care that they are mandated to give in their former socialistic countries.  Their pay is minimized in those countries so, there is no incentive to go above and beyond and, in fact, they do not.  Their supplies are limited so they are not permitted to use what they need to use to treat their patients.  There is no incentive to perform research and there's virtually NO incentive to maintain hospital sterility. 

If you've ever been to a hospital in one of these countries, patients are treated in hallways and wait for DAYS for treatment in the emergency rooms, not minutes or hours.  The hospitals are run-down and are simply disgusting.  The doctors and nurses who come to this country are here to not only seek gainful employment but, to actually perform the duties that they worked so diligently in college to learn but, were unable to follow their passions in their exit countries.  They also share a strong desire to have REAL healthcare for themselves and their families.  I can tell you that these 'transplanted' doctors and nurses are the ones that are THE most upset about this ridiculous bill that is being proposed.  They have first-hand knowledge of what the proposed system will bring to the US.  No only that, they KNOW first-hand how much of their pay they had to give up in order to have healthcare covered by the government--well over 50%!  We just calculated our healthcare costs for private insurance and we pay just over 3% for healthcare coverage--and that includes dental and vision!  3% is a FAR cry from just 50%!

One thing that I would like to know--how many of our elected officials even BOTHERED to visit hospitals in socialistic countries?  How many of them interviewed doctors and nurses who have migrated to the US to get away from socialism?  How many of them actually visited area hospitals and doctor's offices to see how the local doctors and nurses REALLY felt about their proposed healthcare bill?  I would venture to say that NONE of them did--that's just my opinion but, I can't imagine that they had time--they should have been busy reading all 2,000 pages + of the new proposed Bill and I'd venture to say that not ONE of them did that either.

I can tell you too that the doctors and nurses that I know are from both sides of the aisle--both democrat and republican and BOTH sides are in agreement on this one--because they KNOW what this means to Americans and it is absolutely unacceptable that our elected officials DON'T!

 

On another note...

I hope you have a HEALTHY, happy and prosperous New Year, Jon!!

Jan 01, 2010 05:10 PM
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Savvy + Company (704) 491-3310 - Charlotte, NC
The RIGHT CHARLOTTE REALTOR!

Came back to see the response and realized I probably should have written a post--Lord knows my comment is long enough to be a post on its own!!

Have a great Sunday...

Jan 02, 2010 04:53 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Debe - wow. Just wow!

My problem here is that I do not know how to reblog the comment. AR does not have the feature like this. and this is a blog post, and it should be posted.

And I do know what a socialist (free medical care) is. I lived in the Soviet Union for 40 years, and I have been in the hospitals, and I have been put in a bed in the hallways, because the hospital was overcrowded, and i know that they could not prescribe what was needed, because the drug was not on the approved list, and very few drugs were.

Yes, you could stay in the hospital for free, and yes, you could die in the hospital for free, but receiving the right care was absolutely not a guaranteed thing.

And I can't agree more that it would have been so much cheaper to pay for supporters to go there and stay there in the hospital even with a simple diagnosis and see for yourself, rather than experiment with what we have here.

We are playing with fire, and it is going to burn us, and we refuse to even think about it.

So, please, post it on your blog, and I will be the first who will reblog it.

I am sorry, I did not respond faster. I had a very busy Holiday wiith 2 birthdays in the family on January 1 (and my wife's milestone),l and we were trying to secretly make it memorable (and according to her own words - in her blog, we did.

Jan 02, 2010 05:38 PM
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Savvy + Company (704) 491-3310 - Charlotte, NC
The RIGHT CHARLOTTE REALTOR!

Hi Jon!  Well, I've read both of their posts and am just blown away at Inna's literary skills--she is amazing!  And, you wife--simply gorgeous and ever so gracious.  I know she was thrilled with the surprise and how sweet of you to do that for her.  You're quite the family--I know you're proud!

I may post this--I'll freshen it up a bit, I guess!  But, I'm so glad that you wrote what you did about experiencing the exact same things that my physician and nurse friends told me went on in socialist countries.  I just can't believe that we PAY our elected officials to take golfing trips, etc. but, the can't take a trip to one of these countries and see what they're getting us into! 

The sad thing, they're not being held accountable and we're the ones who will ultimately suffer.

Enjoy your Sunday--don't get me started again!!  LOL

Jan 02, 2010 06:28 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Debe - I will keep my cool waiting for your post. I think it is important to keep telling people things the way they are, not the way we want them to be.

Thank you

Jan 02, 2010 06:33 PM