RETS, Your MLS, and the DOJ

Just wait until DOJ takes ownership of the listing data away from us, and then we are forced to buy our own data back from places like Zillow, or Google, or who ever.  No more listing side of the transaction, all listings are public and not exclusive right to sell. 

DOJ Go Away And Pick On Someone Who Deserves It.

Just a few distinctions I would make when reading through this. For my background coming to this... I work in an IT department for a company that has listing data entered in approximately 30 different MLS systems. We get data in all kinds of different formats in a daily basis or more frequently when available.

"First:  A RETS feed has come to mean a live database (empasis on LIVE) that has standard coding for any software to interpret.  The key here is LIVE. "

RETS - We have only a few boards that have invested in RETS servers. These are typically bigger boards, more members, more to invest etc. RETS does allow real time querying and more frequent updates. However we still query the data from the RETS server and use it to update our own databases which power our web site. Usually however we can query this in very close times (say every 15 minutes or something like that)

"IDX is typically a file, downloaded each day at the same time.  The file may be saved every night at 1 a.m., and downloaded by your provider at 4 a.m.  That data is fed into your IDX display, and stays the same for 24 hours.  Effective, easy, but data still has to be mapped."

IDX is the initiative to share data on broker's web sites and the program/rules to implement it etc. Boards can then make the data available through a RETS server, or an FTP feed etc. IDX does not define the type of data transfer, it defines the sharing concept - data could come in any format the board chooses.

A lot of boards provide data through an FTP site, either they push it to your ftp site or you get it from their ftp site. And yes, many of them only update 1X per day and only allow access during certain times at night etc.

"So the standard isn't really a standard yet.  We all have various things in our communities that are different."

I agree with you on this. I don't see the benefits of "standardization" with RETS. Every board implements different names, field options etc. Every time there is data from a board it still has to be set up, evaluated etc separately. It is however a nicer way to be able to access the data real-time.

"Does anyone know of a Listing Provider for Web Sites working in RETS feed yet?"

I don't really understand this... if the board provides RETS access to get data, then anyone accessing data from that board would be getting data through that for their web site. So for example Memphis MLS offers a RETS server and anyone with IDX data on their web site from the Memphis MLS would be getting their data through RETS.

Interesting the distinctions between terms.... I think not even the terms are standardized among the people that use them :)

We actually have about 10 boards or so that use Paragon. So I am familiar with that system. Still each board chooses to buy a different set up from the company. So one board's implementation of the Pargon system is not the same as another board's. Most of our boards that have Paragon supply data feeds through an FTP site nightly dump. We have one board (with Paragon) that also has a RETS server.

>>> "I found they referred to RETS Feed as being very problematic, difficult to set up, and more of a live variety."

I think this depends on two factors 1) the programmer's experience with RETS and 2) the way RETS is implemented at the board. For the most part our programmer's prefer boards that offer RETS servers. There is just more possibility there (with the real-time query). However I could see a board's implementation not being easy to work with or not set up in a great way etc.... just kind of individual to each board.

>>> "According to our board IT guy, he doesn't know how to exclude data from a RETS Feed.  IDX is a opt in/opt out agreement between brokers, therefore the RETS Feed would need 100% participation to use that on your site."

IDX does have opt in and opt out. There will always be companies and individual listings that opt out of the display for whatever reason (although this may be very small there is always the potential). In all of our mls boards we have a way to distinguish who opts in and opts out of IDX display. This is different with every board. Some boards offer only files with data of IDX participants. However some boards offer all the data and then a yes/no field if the listing is IDX. In each of our boards that has a RETS server we can query to see whether or not a listing is IDX yes/ or no - just like we query to get the address or the list price or the number of bedrooms etc. So for us % participation has nothing to do with whether we get the data through RETS or an FTP site.

Some boards choose to only give you IDX data and others say here's all the data and you can only display the IDX and you have to query to find out what it is. Just like you have to follow all of the other IDX rules.

I am not familiar with your board(s) implementation and it may be that they don't offer that field as a query in RETS and therefore you can't determine that. However we can determine who is IDX through a RETS feed. The burden is placed on our programmer's and our staff to determine compliant display.

RETS is an extremely difficult and expensive solution for an IDX provider to implement and get going and should be avoided by all means.  There is already a standard that works with nearly all systems... DATA Downloads of Comma separated files or Tab deliminated files.  These formats work with nearly all types of data systems and web site models and are very inexpensive to set up and implement.  I can have your MLS data integrated into my IDX systems in minutes with the data feeds whereas RETS has a whole bunch of extra things involved to make work and many cases just won't work like it needs to.

RETS is being pushed on the community like the black plague and should be avoided at all costs.

There is no way for the agent or broker to implement RETS on their own without serious training and expensive techs to get it running.  A data file can be imported into excel and then manipulated to a web page in minutes for the average agent or broker that wishes to post current information in minutes on a site they control.  You can't do this with RETS.

NAR mandates and requires IDX Data first and Framing as an OPTION.  Don't let your MLS fool you they have to provide this to you.  IDX Data FEEDS are not an option they are a REQUIREMENT.  Read the ILD Internet Listing Display Policy with NAR it is very clear. 

Why not Keep it Stupid Simple and avoid expensive programs that cost 4 times more to work with.  Standardize the fields, and format for the data and leave it at that.  We all have beds, baths, sqft, etc and all this information should be in a standard format that agents and brokers can work with as well as high tech companies.

Currently nearly all major IDX providers are working with txt, csv, tab, pipe, and similar formats to import and export data to their systems and others such as google real estate, zillow, and more. 

Why does NAR push a technology that doesn't work well with others and costs so much to implement AND no one seems to be using in the common market place?

DATA feeds are much more powerful and can do so much more for your sites.  http://www.canyonsideirwinrealty.com/ is an example of such a site.

If your MLS Association tells you that you cannot have the DATA FEED.  They need to contact the Legal Department of NAR and they will simply read the second paragraph to them in the ILD at realtor.com.

Associations of REALTORS® and their Multiple Listing Services must enable MLS Participants to display on Participants' public websites ("Internet Listing Display sites" or "ILD sites") aggregated MLS active listing information, subject to the requirements of state law, regulations and this policy.

 

1. To comply with this requirement, MLSs must, if requested by a Participant, promptly provide basic "downloading" of all MLS current listing information, including without limitation all non-confidential data fields, listings types, photographs, and any links to virtual tours. For purposes of this policy, "downloading" means electronic transmission of data from MLS servers to Participants' servers on a persistent or transient basis.
   
    
2. Associations and MLSs may also offer, in addition and not in replacement, alternative display options including framing of Board, MLS, or other publicly-accessible sites displaying Participants' listings (with permission of the framed site). This policy does not require associations or MLSs to establish publicly accessible sites displaying Participants' listings.

This also will address the charging of fees by your MLS.  They cannot charge outrageous fees. 

In reply to http://activerain.com/blogsview/141520/rets-your-mls-and-the-doj#663503
James you may be a little confused on this topic and understandably so, many people are.

It shouldn't matter to you or I in the grand scheme of things, ultimately this is a battle owned by NAR and even though you may be a member of NAR, you don't have a say in what they do, own or earn. NAR is actually trying to create "their own" national MLS and break into the arena themselves from what I've heard so hold onto your pants because I have a feeling when that happens we're gonna get it good, not in a good way either well at the beginning until we all adopt them as the standard it might be good in a good way. Pretty funny considering how much they fight against such things, they are promising agents that the technology will be so useful to us, etc. Yeah! But at what cost, as it is NAR practically already has a monopoly on MLS ownership or interest in them.

Tell me, how many MLS's have you ever seen that didn't have a requirement that you must be a member of NAR in good standing before you can join or keep your access to the MLS system? It's all about collecting the dues and the all mighty dollar and nothing about technology or NAR would offer up to their members for free, right....?

You may be suprised to see how much technology and companies NAR owns, from lead generation services where they sell leads or just the promise of them to realtors from sites they own running IDX listings, to contract creation software for the desktop, to transaction file management software, brokerage back office systems, web site development companies for agent sites and idx systems, etc. you name it the "Realtor Union" has their fingers in it all and much like any other union their members don't benefit from it unless they pay. Often you may not even know if a technology is owned by NAR because it operates under a company brand name which is just owned by NAR.

When all is said and done, I'm sure NAR owns RETS, has its copyright and owns all interest in this openly developed and contributed platform. Actually I know then own it, check out any of the documentation of the standards and you can see the copyright notices plastered all over it. I hate to see the day when they start charging licensing fees for using it. There was really no need for them to develop this platform, it's just a naming convention of existing standards which they are trying to regulate and license, much like the term REALTOR which many people wrongly use to refer to real estate agents saying the difference is a code of ethics, yada...yada...yada... you know the drill and also know there are a lot of agents or REALTORS out there that may know the NAR COE but don't necessarily follow them and should not talk about those people publicly either with rules in place that won't allow NAR or other REALTORS to look bad publicly, even if it can be proven.

Politics, gotta love it, it's everywhere!

IDX, RETS, data, data transfer what the heck is the difference?

RETS is a way of standardizing syndicated data feeds, via an RSS like format using industry standardized naming convention of tag fields so that it is easier to match them up between services, software, etc. It is irrelivant if the data is based off a live data feed (meaning a real time production database) or one downloaded nightly which must be normalized (meaning cleaned up by removing excess white space, mismatched data, etc. bad or missing data in, bad or missing data out).

RETS is just a standardized name tag for each data field, think of a form when you go to a web site, some sites may have a single name field, others may have a separate first name, middle name, last name fields and there can be many naming variations of those to; such as fname, mname, lname you get the idea. It is kinda the same only different in laymans terms ;-)

Think of syndication like a language, the same message or data can be transmitted using many different languages, RETS just attempts to standardize it so that all the systems can communicate no matter what language they are using. RSS 1.0, RSS 2.0, XML, SOAP, etc.
(Am I getting too geek here yet?)

The funny part is now there are different versions of the RETS interpreter language. lol... http://www.rets.org/cms/documentation for the other geeks out there RETS is similar to WDDX which allows web programming languages like ColdFusion, Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, C++, .NET, Actionscript, etc to communicate with each other.

I think you guys are confusing what RETS really is by comparing it to a comma delimited file or a database file. RETS is just a standardized field name tagging system or a customized RSS feed. IDX sites may use a RETS compliant data feed to transmit the data from your downloaded comma delimited file or database to the website visitor running the searches. Think of it from the end user aspect, that data is live to them because when they perform a search the results come back according to the criteria they have specified.

If that explanation doesn't do it for you maybe this one will get it across better http://www.rets.org/about

@ Brian Blake http://activerain.com/blogsview/141520/rets-your-mls-and-the-doj#2142247
Currently there is RETS software available for free so your post is wrong due to the confusion of what RETS really is, most idx systems are RETS compliant unless they are a custom job but even then RETS is probably used somewhere along the way. Also in regard to MLS's telling their members that can't have a data feed, NAR's policies only apply to the MLS systems which are owned or managed by NAR, they can't tell others what to or not to do if you agreed to their terms when joining their MLS.

Oh by the way vow, idx and the newest ild are more of policies than actual technology but much like the word REALTOR has come to describe real estate agents, idx has become sinonymous with listing feeds.

 My disclosure, this is my over simplification of RETS for the purpose of understanding the basics of it better without writing a manual, they already have them on the rets site.

Sorry for the long post guys but I see there hasn't been an update here since 2008 so figured I'd contribute my 2 cents as a realtor with a programming tech background.