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If You Ain't Cheating, You Ain't Trying

How is baseball like applying for a home loan? Read the title.

I am thoroughly amazed at how normal, sober, upstanding members of the community purposefully commit mortgage fraud. Like baseball, they don't cheat alone; they have plenty of help. Lazy Realtors and shady mortgage brokers will gladly "go the distance".

The buyers were encouraged to lie on their loan application.

READ ON AT AMERICA'S MORTGAGE BROKER

Posted by Brian Brady- America's VA Home Loan Broker on 07/14/2007 03:00 AM

Comments (57)

Originally posted at: America's #1 Mortgage Broker: If You Ain't Cheating, You Ain't Trying

57 Comments on If You Ain't Cheating, You Ain't Trying

JUL

2007

Thank you for using the Fraud Lesson to teach a lesson in how to do things the right way. Why someone would continue with fraudulent apps when an honest solution is at hand amazes me.

I have a friend, who is a cop, he always uses that "not cheatin, not trying" slogan. I had never heard it used except by him and you. I thought it was Canadian, which he is. He mainly uses it regarding hockey.

I am pleased that you are a man of principal, most everyone is willing to look the other way rather that do the right thing. I would rather loose the business than risk my license any day of the week, tis a shame that we are in the minority.

Great post.

Good for you Brian. I have been known to piss off a few Realtors because I won't play that game. I had a guy come to me based on a Realtor referral and wanted to buy a tri plex. He said it was full and he had no intention of moving in and had no money down. But wanted owner occupied, lived with brother who would vouch for him that he worked for his constuction companyfor more than 2 years. I told him that was illigal and I had no intention of even looking at it. He said he already got approved from another mortgage company anyway and just wanted to see if he got a better deal. a week later I saw him going into sign at title...since my office is next door. I tepped out and asked him how it went...he said no problem, the other mortgage company had me do a stated income...So he lied about his income and work. I reported it to DFI...nothing became of it. About a week ago he came into see me about a refi to get some cash out....I refered him out the door...

Good post. Honesty is always the best policy.

So he lied about his income and work. I reported it to DFI...nothing became of it.

That's annoying. What a lesson to send to the world; if you're a boy scout, nobody cares. Well, Chuck, I know three good originators in Washington, now. You're one of them. Thanks for the comments.

I appreciate the Realtors' comments, too. I really can't direct them at you because the best of the industry is here. As you can tell, I am annoyed and your profession and my industry tonight. I am equitably pissed off at both.

Brian:

Experience pay. Good job!

A paycheck is never worth the loss of my principals. Finding a way to make the loans work legally -- priceless.

I've been thinking a lot lately about how rampant this all is as well. It's pretty amazing the stuff lenders have been telling me are OK these last few days, which are fraudulent. I wish someone would either enforce the law or change it so you can just make up any old crap, because that's what people end up doing half the time anyway.

I had a lender suggest fraud to the first buyer I gave him, then turn around and tell me it wasn't fraud.

It's like Alice in Wonderland.

Cheers.

Amen, brother!

I have only been in the business for 2 1/2 years and am constantly learning things about how I want my business to operate. Each day is a new experience and I am thankful for all the info. that I can soak up here at AR. Thanks for writing about your experience!!

Brian, it is simply amazing how all these people get caught up in all of this. Did these people not learn from all the Fraud that went on back in the early 90's.

I still enjoy my Boston Red Sox.

I don't believe that the examples stated are a large percentage of loans. I believe they are a small percentage. That said, pointing them out is important to warn untrained agents that when someone says "just" do this or do that and you'll be approved, run, don't walk away.

I DID have a lender offer to have a phony VOD included in a loan process to get my buyers approved. His wife was an officer at the bank where my buyers had their account.

I declined, left quickly, reported him to the employing broker and, guess what? Nothing happened. THAT is the problem. Nothing ever happens. Last I heard, he still had his job.

By permitting steroid pumped ball players to retain their stats in the record book makes a big SHAM of the record book, the records and the history of baseball. A history, an institution, dreams of little leaguers, millions of fans looking for heros for their sons, all sacrificed for the sake of a few cheaters. It's over. Nothing will happen.

Brian,

I would definitely want you on my side---in fact, why don't we just move you here to Hilton Head so you can bask on our beautiful beaches?

Brian, I love that you have options and they are the right options. I am sure there are others like you out there, its important to take the time to find them if referring. thanks for the post and education.

Just when I think I've read my favorite post from you, you write another one. I absolutely abhor that expression (your title). And I stopped watching baseball when free agency went into effect - totally ruined the game in my opinion.

Brian,

I love that this is again brought to the attention of everybody. While this stuff will probably never go away in any industry in total, this should weigh heavy on our minds. I loved Chuck's insight and attitude towards this as well, fraud in all its forms, is irritating and intolerable.

I hate4 when Realtors give in to this, some are innocent and some are deliberate. It ultimately hurts all of us. I had a client last week that her husband was leaving a sport and had about 35K in his last job, but no current job. My lender told her, "go get a job", I can't fund you without employement". She, innocently wanted to not let the lender know that he was leaving to go back to school, and asked me if she could. NO, you can't do that it is fraud and she went and call a lender ( one of my preferred ) who told her the same thing.

UPdate she found a job teaching, and my daughter is showing her houses today. Was it possible some other realtor/lender would have misrepresented the facts. You bettcha.

The line for the Brian Brady fan club is getting long.

I still can't believe the crap people try to pull. Thanks for being an upstanding guy!

...and the Brian Brady club increased by 1 more. I can't imagine encouraging a client to not only cheat on a loan, but to ask and expect a mortgage lender to be willing and comply. I think people who cheat lack confidence that they can make it by following the rules.

Brian,

What's a little fraud among friends?

I think I've worked with your REALTOR®, he sounds familiar. You've got to admire a man that knows his priorities and as a society we do. The problem is his priority, in this case collecting his commission, as apposed to protecting and helping his clients.

Lenn connected at the sweet spot, we let the records stand! We all know and admire the salesman who makes the most, he stands out a lot more than the one who serves his clients best. Cash, like the most home runs, strike outs, or wins is impressive. We give only a slight nod to the team player with the best RBI's, but we give adulation to the home run kings!

It's to bad we're talking about baseball instead of collage basket ball. Many know who the most winning coach is, and even very good people seek to be seen and photographed with him, despite his record of NCAA infractions, proven and/or implied. Talk about misplaced priories, but who even knows which coach or school holds the record the highest graduation rate?

On a more positive note I love your solutions. You prove my theory (stolen from Star Trek) "it is not the strongest or fastest that wins but the one who best knows how the system works!" It's also a great place to point out, don't call what we do "Creative Financing" there are to many negative connotations (earned (?) in the late 70's and early 80's), what we do is conventional financing very creatively!

Let's hope people are listening, because like the steroid scandals the commissioners may have been looking the other way, but now they're shocked that these thing are happening! It's the same in our industry, the regulators are shocked that these thing happened.

Those who compromised them selves and their clients are in a very precarious position in deed!

Great post.

Bill

William J Archambault Jr

The Real Estate Investment Institute

http://www.williamjarchambaultjr.com

Like my son says, cheaters nevr winn and winners never cheat.:)

Excellent post, Brian.

Brian,

Excellent post. It never ceases to amaze me how many people beilive that things like these are OK, even though it is clearly fraud. If it is wrong, don't do it. That simple. You will likely piss off other people involved in the transaction as you experienced, but it won't come back and bite you in the butt.

WOW - it is amazing how people just don't get it and just don't care! It's sort of like pirating software - they don't get it, don't care and try to make you feel like you are the one doing wrong when you say "no".

The stories I am starting to read here on A/R about fraud has enlightened me as to why consumers look at this business as less than savoury. These type of professionals make us all look bad. I'm glad to see you rise about this garbage Brian. Good for you.

Brian - Hooray for you! A mortgage originator with integrity---now that's a concept. I guess the reason your type is such an anomaly is that what you do requires some actual expertise, training and intellect. Thanks for taking a stand for what is right and for educating us here that as REALTORS we must not look the other way when we believe orginators are suggesting our clients perpetrate fraud. It's important to remember that when we point fingers at the mortgage originaotrs for all the terrible loans that are defaulting today, in many cases a good REALTOR might have helped to avert these disasters by directing them to someone like you who would have done the job right or told the borrowers the truth and not made the loan to begin with. Oh my---may I have some help getting down off my soapbox?

Nice post Brian. I remember once in my former life as a financial manager I complained to our Company attorney about how some companies regularly use slight of hand and never get caught. His reply was memorable, "Virtue is its own reward." Its refreshing to see some virtue in this business. Keep it up and keep pointing it out to those of us that are newer to this business.

Great post-and a reminder that so often, there's no reason to commit fraud in many instances...except that there are folks who have made suggestions too quickly and hate to be proven wrong!

Your creativity must be part of your success. After reporting it as fraud, instead of just saying NO (and yes, of course you should have said NO) you came up with an alternative for them.

You know I work with investors. Sadly, a week NEVER goes by without being presented with something outside the lines. Sad commentary.

It ain't only baseball and mortages, but goes all the way to the top, just look at our leaders, lied us into a war were not only houses and loans, but our young sons and daughters lives are at stake. And we learn more and more each day of this sort of BS and kickback scandals. What a shame we can't have an honest government to lead us, but is that an oxymoron.

Brian,

I can only hope that the agent, who was so willing to compromise his ethics to get a paycheck, was thinking of his client ahead of himself. Yeah, sure.

Giving great customer service is steering your client along an ethical path and adhering to our REALTOR® code of ethics.

What that agent did is on the wheel...

Fran

Excellent work, Brian! Honesty is always the best policy; if one is dishonest with the lender, then how can one be sure you are not dishonest with your own client. This reminds me of a slogan from Chilkoot Charlies bar in Anchorage, Alaska, "We cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you!" Yeah, right!

Aloha,

Bob

The Fast Food Mortgage:

Exuse me, could I get that loan with a side of lies?

Yes and you can add the appraisers who looked the other way while the bubbles across America thrived. But I digress. I look at baseball and what's wrong with it as a microcosm of what's wrong in general so yes I agree with your post.

I stopped supporting the Indians decades ago when they traded Kenny Lofton the first time and free agency took hold. But the game is still wonderful and there are plenty of good players who are not trying to game the system. We don't give up on politics when that system sucks do we? Let's just all keep working to improve the situation and not give up. Play ball :-)

Great post, Brian. The stories of fraud just keep popping up. Good analogy. Saw stuff like this is the corporate world all the time.

Jeff

Great post Brian...Unfortunately we live in a "Me Society" in todays world. By this I mean that the majority of people have a "Me Attitude" and will do what they want to do, when they want to do it whithout regard to how it will affect the people or situations around them. Very sad but very true.

And I stopped watching baseball when free agency went into effect

Linda, that's a whole 'nuther post BUT for fun, how, as a Republican, could you dislike free agency? It breaks the "union" mentality that permeated baseball for years.

It ain't only baseball and mortages, but goes all the way to the top, just look at our leaders, lied us into a war were not only houses and loans, but our young sons and daughters lives are at stake

I'll disagree with the illustration, Michael, but certainly stipulate that the leadership of our country has lacked moral fiber since 1988.

Let's just all keep working to improve the situation and not give up. Play ball :-)

Attagirl, Carole. You don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We can still do business honestly and enjoy a Little League game.

It's sort of like pirating software - they don't get it, don't care and try to make you feel like you are the one doing wrong when you say "no".

Great example, Christine. I was a serial MP3 down loader until I realized that I was stealing intellectual property . Gosh, it's only .89/song.

If it is wrong, don't do it. That simple

Exactly what I expect form Robert Ashby.

It's like Alice in Wonderland.

And, with that, John, I'll end my comments. It's like Alice in Wonderland.

YOU GO BRIAN!!!

ETHICS AND GOOD BUSINESS....... they go together!!

Nice post.....I can see why you got a star!!

=-)

Brian - Another great post and title that grabs you. You should have worked on Madison St instead of Wall Street. In all seriousnes, you post hit the nail on the head!

Mortgage fraud is being taken seriously these days. It's a matter of who is going to get caught and when.

JUL

2007

I didn't know they was steroids! I didn't know the hurricane was going to be that bad! I didn't know I needed to disclose that! I didn't know about teacher loans. It's all the same BS.

But I understand it all better now, because Dubya told us yesterday that we are all suffering from war fatigue, and it affects us psychologically. "I understand that," he tells us. If he would just get Barry Bonds to replace Antonio Gonzales, we'd all be better off.

Mortgage fraud is being taken seriously these days.

I don't know, Carol. The problem is that it is so prevalent that the "little" frauds, like misrepresentation on loan applications are being shoved aside. I hope you're right because I'm feeling too much like a Boy Scout.

Thanks Brian,

Fraud in lending - I have seen too much of it and it's not the media-feeding sacrificial Brokers, either. The Big Dogs - banks and Top 5 lenders. Worst part is, the fact they get it done by breaking the law leaves the legitimate lender looking like a fool, truly adding insult to injury.

But I'm with you - can't change my stripes.

Art Egg-on-his-Face Blanchet

Ricky...

As you know Fraud is rampant in our area right now. We just dealt with one of these fraudulent offers. Funny thing is until the government itself steps in this will continue. I think it was Ines Garcia that tried to report a fraudulent transaction she was told that Florida does not have enough man power to handle the cases that get reported every year. That kind of puts our backs to the wall. We both know that someone out there is going to accept the kind of offer that just went across our desk even if we did let our dog crap on it Friday :)

Okay. I am not done. I forgot to say the players involved the kind of offer we received will eventually steal first base and Yell "SAFE" when they get paid. And they probably will be safe. For now :)

TLW...ROAR!

Brian- Wish I could say I was stunned by the info in your post.. but of course I'm not... appalled YES.. stunned No.. Not one state requires tough rules to become either an agent or a lender.. take a quick test, pay your money and You be a Professional.. As a society we condone taking the easy way.. we worship at the alter of fame and money.. no matter how morally corrupt or stupid.. I'm not smart enough to be crooked.. you have to remember too many lies..

Brian - great information, and I bet you didn't cheat putting this all together!! LOL! You are definately "Americas Most Opinionated Mortgage Broker!" and you should be proud! I"m sure glad you are a resource to myself and other rainers. Thanks Brian.

Brian great post! As a fairly new agent, I find that I just need to be more knowledgeable on the loan side of things. I do have enough sense that when asked to something by a loan officer, I run to Chris for advice. Normally, to find out that I dont want any part of it.

I had a closing a couple of weeks ago, where the lender showed up demanding $1400 more for closing. He didnt do this on the HUD, he waited for us to show at closing, and then wanted to add it. Well, my sellers werent going to budge, then they mentioned it coming out of my commissions. Well, they got the look. Then they offered a solution and we told them that it wasnt legal, he said of course it is. We told him we would do it if the attorney said it was ok. Guess what, the $1400 disappeared.

That lender is on my STAY AWAY FROM LIST!

You offering any courses for us agents who want to play by the books?

this process is rampant in the industry...and i think it's about to change. I have friends who work for various investment firms who actually BUY the mortgages. they are going through them with a fine comb LOOKING for reasons to NOT pay full price. Interesting thing is that they are finding PLENTY of loans that are "fraud" or potential fraud. I fully expect to see more and more brokers have to buy back these loans! FINALLY! Life is too short for fraud loans. I won't do them and have lost a Realtor along the way

That's horrible. I can't believe they are willing to risk not only their license, but their clients well being as well!

Brian, I just had something similar happen to me. Client was a referral from a Realtor and I could never get a straight answer out of him in regards to his previous job. He always had a story on why they coudn't be contacted. He just wouldn't budge when I told him the lenders had to verify the last two years. He became indignant and demanded to know why they had to talk with them to verify. Long story short, the previous job was an all cash business where he had only reported $20,000 in income to the IRS and had actually made over $100,000. He wanted no documentation. I told him I couldn't help him...

Ricky...

Your post and the offer we received prompted me to do a little research ... This is what I found and I sure hope it will us and our market.

<Christ Signs Bill To Curtail Mortgage Fraud> Now if they can get some man power behind this we will be better equipped to deal with this crap.

TLW...ROAR!

JUL

2007

You offered two very good responses to the realtors.

They trashed because they wanted a pattern they understood, even if they accessed it fraudulently.

Marianne Jennings used to have examples of this kind of reasoning, and ethics courses to encourage ways out of it. Sadly, she's in Arizona, not San Diego.

Not that I don't see my share of people attempting to game me here. My response has been to say, "You do realize I write down things for the mortgage lender. Do you really want to open a file with me?"

JUL

2007

That is a sad story. I'm real sorry to hear that you have stopped watching baseball.

Excellent post, Brian. Makes me glad that I stopped by AR this morning to read this. The more we can get the word out that Mortgage Professionals won't accept fraud, the higher we'll elevate our profession. I can just imagine the look on the agents face when you pointed out the Teacher loan would be fraud.

JUL

2007

"gamble his paycheck on some underwriter from a big bank"

??????

What happened to looking out for the best interests of your client?

Both of these agents sound like they need to find another profession to be in.

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