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THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE UGLY: Underwriting Conditions Gone Crazy - Part 2

By
Mortgage and Lending with Los Angeles & Ventura Counties in CA

In Part 1, I explained what underwriting conditions were and how some conditions can be good and pretty standard and easy to fulfill.  Some can be bad and a challenge to fulfill and others are just downright ugly and are either impossible to fulfill or just basically nonsense. 

Adding to the challenge, different lenders may have different conditions based on their specific lender overlays.  The same can be said of different programs that will have different conditions however the differences between conventional and government programs are becoming fewer and fewer all the time. 

There are several areas of the transaction that can be a source of grief when it comes to conditions; way too many to list in this post.  Whether it's verifying assets or income or some other aspect of the loan application, conditions can go from good to bad to ugly without the proper documentation. 

For example, when verifying that a borrower has the funds to close escrow, all funds must be sourced, documented and verified, in other words, a paper trail must be established.  Below are just some examples of how the verification of funds to close can wreak havoc on the loan transaction because of documentation, or lack thereof. 

GOOD:  At least 90 days of bank statements with sufficient funds that have been adequately seasoned in the borrowers account in accordance with program and lender guidelines.  There are no unusually large, non-taxable deposits that need to be explained and neither the earnest money deposit nor any of the funds needed to close are derived from a loan or are being withdrawn from any open lines of credit. 

BAD:  Funds have not been adequately seasoned in the borrowers account.  If funds are coming in the form of a gift, the gift donors funds need to be sourced and documented and the transfer from the gift donors account to the borrowers account need to be documented and verified.

If the funds are coming from another asset account (401k, retirement, brokerage, stocks/bonds, etc...), the funds from that account need to be sourced and documented and the transfer from one account to another must be documented and verified.  

UGLY:  Large cash deposits from non-payroll sources of income are some of the most challenging funds to explain.  If funds are being derived from the sale of personal possessions, sales receipts of the sold items are required.  Most lenders will not accept cash on hand and for the few that do, there will definitely be restrictions on how much can be used for qualifying purposes. 

At any time during this process, if the documentation is even slightly out of whack, this can cause delays in the loan transaction.  If the gift funds are from an ineligible source or worse, can't be sourced, that will disqualify the gift funds.  If large cash deposits can not be explained, then those funds may be disqualified.  I recently, had a loan transaction that got delayed because my client had large cash deposits. 

My client's bank statements reflected some large, non-taxable, cash deposits.  This was an FHA loan transaction and in accordance with FHA guidelines, we are required to only provide an explanation if the deposits exceed 2% of the property sales price, which these deposits didn't and if a loan had been incurred to obtain the cash, which it wasn't.  We, of course, verified and documented this info. 

This particular lending source had a lender overlay that required an explanation of any non-taxable, cash deposit exceeding $600 regardless of the sales price and/or source of funds. 

At this point, we provided an LOE explaining that my client had sold some personal possessions and we listed the possessions.  Additionally, we provided sales receipts (that included buyer's contact info, the sales amount and date) for the items that were sold for more than $600. 

Then the transaction went from bad to ugly when the underwriter required that my client provide proof of ownership for the items he sold.  This was impossible because all of the items were either things that my client received as a gifts (over a lifetime) or items that he purchased for cash from private parties. 

One particular item was a drum set that my client received as a gift from his parents when he was a teenager (my client was 25).  Other items were furniture that my client received from various relatives when he left home a few years earlier.  The other items were things that he purchased from craigslist for cash.  For anyone who has ever used craigslist, most sellers are private parties selling for cash only and they provide no receipts. 

To wrap up this story, I escalated the matter to management and filed a formal complaint about the underwriter (I'd been having problems with this underwriter from the get-go).  Management waived the condition for proof of ownership and we received a clear to close approval. 

There are so many ways a loan transaction can be delayed because of some PTD or PTF condition.  Conditions can go from good to bad to ugly at any point, with no explanation regardless of program and/or lender guidelines.  Lenders are not in the tree saving business and as such, some lenders will require a paper trail for just about everything that you can possibly think of. 

Inexperienced, incompetent and/or irrational underwriters can also derail the transaction when they start requesting things that aren't even required by the lender.  In those instances, this is where an experienced and competent loan officer (LO) can take control of the situation and can either escalate the matter to management or find another lending source (a last resort). 

Stay tuned for Part 3 where I discuss other types of underwriting conditions that can delay a loan transaction and how to avoid these complications.  In the meantime, check out Part 1.

THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY: Underwriting Conditions Gone Crazy - Part 1

THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE UGLY: Underwriting Conditions Gone Crazy - Part 3

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 Donne Knudsen

Realtor® - CalState Realty Services

DRE#: 01364050 / NMLS#: 249822 

 

805.2069123

 

E-mail   My Blog  

Serving low-medium income individuals and families as well as first time buyers with both their real estate as well as their mortgage needs including down payment assistance

Los Angeles County  --  Ventura County

© 2010 - All Rights Reserved

Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

I have seen more cash deals go "poof" than I have ever had mortgage deals die.  The cash has to come from some where and agents forget to check the source -

 

Feb 03, 2010 04:17 AM
Donne Knudsen
Los Angeles & Ventura Counties in CA - Simi Valley, CA
CalState Realty Services

Yep, that seems to be the case with my friend and her client and now they are back-pedaling trying to make the cash look kosher.

Feb 03, 2010 05:39 AM
Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

Can you say "launder"?  ;) 

I hope you are having a great week

Feb 04, 2010 07:52 AM
Anonymous
Toi

Donne,

The information you have provided has been sooo helpful. I am currently in the process of purchasing a loan via the VA Vendee Loan Program...NIGHTMARE! (SMILE).  Last year they had me almost 5 days from my closing date and requested I pay $4,000 worth of debt off. Then I found out I should have never been pre-approved in the first place. This year, I ensured I crossed all my t's and dotted all my i's. Now, because I dont have any deliquent debts. They would like to know where two of my deposits came from: (1) for $500 and another for $600.  During the holidays I sold some murchandise to a friend and I also received money from my grandparents (that whole money in the mattress comes into play ha ha ha), who sent cash.  I am guess thats where the $600 came from. The $500 came from my parents who were repaying money they borrowed from me.  Now Bank Of America wants a copy of my parents bank statement showing them transferring the funds to me. What can I show as proof for the $600?  Help! They are driving me crazy.

Feb 08, 2010 02:47 AM
#12
Donne Knudsen
Los Angeles & Ventura Counties in CA - Simi Valley, CA
CalState Realty Services

Toi - First and foremost, I feel your pain.  I've had clients who were in the same position as you and the hoops they had to jump through were ridiculous.  Today's underwriting guidelines and conditions are so much more stringent than they have been in years.  If you want the loan, you're going to have to do whatever you can to get it.

On that note, the $500 for the merchandise you sold needs to be explained and verified.  Have your LO write an LOE and you are going to need to put together some sales receipts or bills of sale for the merchandise you sold.  A simple statement saying who bought the merchandise, the date they purchased it and how much cash they paid for it should suffice as a recept.  Having the purchasers contact info included looks good too, if the u/w wishes to verify it.

As for the gift from the grandparents, your LO can try and explain it as an Xmas gift but apprarently, that is not sufficient enough.  You can try and get a receipt from your bank showing the date you deposited the gift money.  However, any gift money does need to be sourced to the donor.  Do you actually need the $600 for your funds to close?

Feb 08, 2010 03:20 AM
Elizabeth Weintraub Sacramento Broker
Elizabeth Anne Weintraub, Broker - Sacramento, CA
Put 40 years of experience to work for you

Underwriting is sheer hell for a lot of people. We may understand it, but most buyers do not. Some buyers get really upset when they are asked for more documentation, but I bet you handle these situations with finesse so your borrowers are never out of sorts.

Feb 08, 2010 05:10 AM
Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

Hi Donne!

Feb 08, 2010 05:44 AM
Sidney Kutchuk - Realty Works Temecula Kutchuk - Realty Works Temecula
Realty Works Temecula - Temecula, CA
Realty Works Temecula

Donne:  You are always educating with these great posts!  Hey, I like your new profile pic!!!

Feb 08, 2010 12:32 PM
Donne Knudsen
Los Angeles & Ventura Counties in CA - Simi Valley, CA
CalState Realty Services

Elizabeth - I do my best but I have to say, this past year has produced some of the most challenging underwriting situations I have seen in my eight years in the biz.  I'm still learning, which is good.

Rob - Hi Rob  :)

Jane - I actually love educating my buyers.  The more they know about the loan process the better prepared they are to make educated decisions.  Thx for the compliment.  :)

Feb 08, 2010 04:43 PM
Robert Rauf
CMG Home Loans - Toms River, NJ

I have been waiting for part 3?  Come on now, time to post a new blog slacker!

Feb 15, 2010 01:52 AM
Anonymous
Toi

Donne,

Let me begin by saying your page is GREAT. It has been a tremendous help to me being a first time homebuyer.  It has definately been a learning process....

Are there rules and/or laws that state exactly what is and isnt excessive for a bank to request? Ive been asked for a copy of my parents bank statement showing my parents withdrew money to give to me to pay the Sprint Cell phone bill BOA has requested me to pay off....

Im starting to feel mentally and emotionally drained over this whole process. Im so close to finally living the "American Dream" and becoming a homeowner, I can taste it (smile). I am going to follow your great advice given, be humble, and give them what the ask for.

 

Feb 17, 2010 05:34 AM
#21
Donne Knudsen
Los Angeles & Ventura Counties in CA - Simi Valley, CA
CalState Realty Services

Rob- I know, I need to get it up.  LOL  I've actually already drafted it but I like to let my posts simmer for a few days before I post.  At this point, I just need to go back in and do a little editing because it's wwwaaayyy too long.  I know how ya all have such short attention spans and I don't want to lose my audience after word 750. Be patient with me, my friend, it'll be up this week.

Toi - Welcome to my world!  Getting a home loan these days is the ultimate test of mental and emotional stability.  Only the strong survive and make it to the end (closing escrow). 

As I mentioned before, all gift money must be verified, documented and sourced.  If any of those steps can't be fulfilled, then you don't get the gold star (the underwriter signing off on the condition).  So yes, the gift your parents gave you to pay your cell bill must be sourced - meaning that your parents have to prove that they had the money to give.

I know its infuriating to know that some ego-maniacal underwriter holds the power to make or break your dream.  I assure you, I feel your pain.  Some days, I just want to suck these dream-destroying creatures through the phone and strangle them until they turn blue just so that they would know what it feels like to have the life drained from them at the hands of another (yes, I do have a creepy, morbid desire to rid the world of these heartless monsters).

Fortunately for me and my clients, those moments are fleeting and my better sense wins out and I will usually give them whatever they want.  I want to emphasize the word usuallythough because to answer another one of your questions, yes Toi, there is a point when an underwriter (especially a BofA underwriter) can go too far.  However, only an experienced LO will know when that has happened and will know when to escalate the matter to management to get a more reasonable and experienced set of eyes to review the file and realize that their underwriter is being moron.

i hope all goes well for you and if you have any other questions and/or concerns or if I can be of any further assistance, please feel free to contact me.

Feb 17, 2010 06:04 AM
Renée Donohue~Home Photography
Savvy Home Pix - Allegan, MI
Western Michigan Real Estate Photographer

This is the type of information that deserves syndication  ~ you are a rockstar Donne!

Feb 19, 2010 11:57 AM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

The really fun part of a closing... or of the few days just before a closing... is when the lender tells you that they are "clear to close"... that all conditions have been satisfied... and then they come up with more of them.  How fun !

Feb 19, 2010 12:02 PM
Donne Knudsen
Los Angeles & Ventura Counties in CA - Simi Valley, CA
CalState Realty Services

Renee - Thank you so much for the compliment and support.  That means a lot to me and I am definitely getting on board the blog syndication train.  I didn't get a chance today to go in and buy the feed submitter and download the software yet but definitley going to get to that this weekend.  I can definitely see the benefit of the software and am excited to see how it all works.

Karen - LOL  That term is such a misnomer and I don't know why we still use that term but we do.  When you hear "clear to close" it sounds like you're good to go and no more conditions - right?  Wrong! 

All clear to close means is that you have cleared your prior-to-doc conditions and you can now submit your doc order.  However, after you clear your prior-to-doc conditions, you still have your prior-to-funding conditions to clear.

Thx for stopping by ladies; I really appreciate it.  Have a good night and may your escrows be free of the uglies.

Feb 19, 2010 02:08 PM
Carla Muss-Jacobs, RETIRED
RETIRED / State License is Inactive - Portland, OR

What a great mini-series.  Thanks to Renee for re-blogging I would have missed all the fun!  Underwriters -- yuck!

Feb 19, 2010 06:42 PM
Stephen Kappre
KW Hometown - Mantua, NJ
Helping You Home

WAIT - buyers can't send 3 of 5 pages of statements and deposit $10,000 THE DAY OF SETTLEMENT - but it's their money!!?? I send buyers a list and explicitly explain such topics, and they still send over the wrong stuff, incomplete statements, statements without their name on them ... bt I'm probably preaching to the choir.

Feb 20, 2010 12:18 AM
Donne Knudsen
Los Angeles & Ventura Counties in CA - Simi Valley, CA
CalState Realty Services

Carla - thank you; I'm glad you liked it.  I just thought this was something that buyers would find informative and educational.

Steve - LMAO!  Oh boy, you and I could tell some stories.  Singing to the choir?  You and I are the lead singers.

Thx for stopping by folks; I really appreciate it.

Feb 20, 2010 04:30 AM
Cari Anderson
Danville, CA

Donne: I applaud you for formally escalating the issue to management and handling it in a professional manner. I was an underwriter for 13 years and you wouldn't believe how many LOs just lose it and start cussing you out. I have to play devil's advocate a little and say that you have to feel a little for the UWs out there today. They are super-cautious for a reason - of course this is not yours or your clients' fault it just is. As you can tell I'm not underwriting any longer and I'm pretty happy about that. The job as I knew it before (making deals work with a make-sense attitude) is history. I think you did the right thing by going through the proper channels and ultimately helping your client. It is too bad that many UWs feel that they cannot employ a "make-sense" approach to approving loans any longer. I hope that in the future this will dissipate some and we can all enjoy working together as a team again.

~Cari

Feb 26, 2010 06:51 AM
Donne Knudsen
Los Angeles & Ventura Counties in CA - Simi Valley, CA
CalState Realty Services

Cari - The problem that I had with the underwriter in my post is that she was inexperienced and, unfortunately, incompetent.  When you have an LO explaining FHA guidelines to an underwriter who clearly did not know them, then you clearly have a problem. 

On more than one occassion, this underwriter made it quite clear that she didn't even understand her own lender overlays.  I actually had to read her own lender overlays/guidelines to her from her own manual.  As I said, she was inexperienced (a newbie) and improperly trained.  Don't even get me started on the inappropriate remarks she said about me, my broker and my clients as well as her unprofessional behavior.

Lastly, the other issue I am having with underwriters is there fear mentality.  I have even had them say to me "I won't get fired for saying NO!"  Way too much to say in this comment.  Thx for stopping by; I really appreciate it.

Feb 26, 2010 07:15 AM