Home : Blogs : Kris Wales - Macomb County MI real estate blog & homes for sale search site : Macomb County MI real estate blog

"Do NOT give out my lockbox code to anyone!"

"Do not give out my lockbox code to anyone!!"

I've been seeing this remark (and variations of it) on many listings in our MLS over the last 6 months or so. As always, it makes me cringe when I realize that the listing agent has had to deal with other agents who do not treat a sellers property with care and respect.

Finally the National Association of Realtor® addressed this issue in the updated Standards of Practice - Article 3 - 9, effective January 1, 2010:

REALTORS shall not provide access to listed property on terms other than those established by the owner or the listing broker.

What a shame that this even had to included in our Standards of Practice, but I'm thrilled that it is there now. Perhaps more real estate agents and brokers will start to file formal complaints and hold the agents who participate in this lazy & unethical practice accountable.

Contact Kris Wales - A partner for your real estate needs in Macomb County MI

Search Macomb County MI homes for Sale with MLS provided data updated daily.

Want to chat about local real estate? Visit A Macomb County MI real estate blog

Posted by Kris Wales - Macomb County MI real estate blog & homes for sale search site on 02/13/2010 05:28 AM

Comments (108)

national association of realtors standards of practice

Generate short URL

108 Comments on "Do NOT give out my lockbox code to anyone!"

FEB

2010

Kris, it should be common sense not to pass around lockbox codes. This must be a big problem for the NAR to include it in the COE. Every one should read this post.

Kris, I have had this happen this year and my sellers reported the incident to me. My sellers pulled up to the home and the buyers were IN the house alone... no agent in sight. She had given the code to her buyers. I was furious and phoned the agent to let her know not to give my codes out to anyone. Needless to say, my sellers were not impressed with the buyer's agent practice and you can be certain word is getting around to their circle of friends.

Kris:

It is actually surprising that it took them this long to include this wording in the Standards of Practice. I think it is overdue. What I would really like to see is the Supra key made to be more universal and do away the combo lock boxes. That uniformity would go a long way in preventing unwanted access to properties.

I agree with Kris, A universal box would solve much of the problem. I have had this happen where a buyer's agent actually got mad at me because I wouldn't allow his client in the property because he couldn't be with them. He told me it was their property..it was pending!

Michael, It is a shame that this even had to be addressed. The first thing I learned in pre-licensing class was to always take care of a sellers property.   I thought it odd that this even had to be discussed in a class. Seems like common sense doesn't it?

Teresa, Those buyers are darned lucky that your clients didn't pick up the phone and call the police. They did not give authorization to the buyers, but to the buyers agent for the showing.   Granted, it's the agents fault, but perhaps a filed police report to hand to the agents broker would be in order.

Claudette,   I agree, I think having the Supra key be standard would go a long way to insuring this type of behaviour stops.

Angelica, The logic that some people have makes me shake my head. Pending is not sold. I had a buyers agent remove a key from the lockbox once on one of my listings and give to the buyer prior to closing. I was infuriated, as were my sellers. I made sure we got to closing, then called the broker immediately afterwards to tell him about it. I should have filed a formal complaint, but I like the broker and have respect for him. I figured he would handle the wayward agent, and he did.

This is a terrible practice-as well as you think you may know your buyers, temptations do occur and you don't want to be responsible for someone's indiscretions.

On more than one occassion I have run into "buyers" in a property with no agent anywhere around. Combo codes float around the internet worse than the H1N1 virus. There should be HUGE fines for agents that are caught handing out codes and access keys. There shouldn't even be question but once again it is going to be up to us to find out who the agent is and turn them in to our associations to make this new code stick.

This is why I use a Supra electronic box rather than a combo box because so often I hear of buyers just showing up at houses without an agent. Why these agents are still in the business, I will never know, but I think this should be more than just a fine for an agent, I think it should be a suspension of license.

Security and liability are key issues. Combo codes have a way of getting into the "public domain" so it can create big problems on all fronts!

Combo lock boxes shouldn't be on occupied properties anyway. It's a security issue.

Hi Kris,

We use the Supra electronic boxes which eliminates this practice. Although I have heard of agents who open the lock box for their clients but leaves them in the house because they have another commitment! Not a good practice!!

Though should not be necessary, but sadly IS because of issues like this, one way to step-up the control & security of lockbox key access is via systems such as GE's Supra, SentriLock, and other electronic lockbox systems. Really are must-haves to best serve our Sellers in our 2010 world!

I didn't know that was a problem. That surprises me that something like that has to be spelled out. What is next, a mandate that, "Thou shall lock all doors when leaving a home" You have to be kidding me. Going into a property without consent is trespassing. Buyers agents that give out the code should be fined, Heavily.

Thank you

I guessing this applies to combo lockboxes !!!! I've never been a fan of these, as they cause additional confusion and offer no paper trail !

Kris,

For my REO listings, the banks mandate a combo lockbox so they can enter their properties. Fine - I put one on but only the owner gets the combo. Agents use the electronic lockbox, which also enables me to track entries. I have had agents call me for the combo to give to their buyers, so I know this does happen. In my case, the combo simply isn't shared!

Kris, it is unfortunate that this has been happening to the point NAR had to make a standard of practice. I heard it was happening a lot in your area and in Realcomp area. I know they are finally thinking and discussing going to the electronic ones.

We dropped Supra and start with Sentrilock on the 15th of March.

It doesn't happen much here, but it does with foreclosure lisitngs mainly.

Similar situation, but not with buyers : During the home inspection on a house my clients are in the process of purchasing, it was noted that the brand new kitchen cabinets were very loose. It seems someone (possibly a sub contractor)was gaining access to the house via the combo lock box and trying to remove them from the wall!

Irene is right on target. How do you give your seller feedback with only a combo code? How do you know who to thank for showing verses who to complain to if they leave it unsecured? The day will probably come when some listing agent doesn't even present an offer from you (so they might present their own) if you didn't sign their sign in sheet on an REO listing, since they may claim you never saw the home before the offer since there wouldn't be any proof you were there. I see business cards there from agents that don't sign is as required. I do both since I want the REO companies to keep seeing my name on their lists!

we use the supra lockbox and we fortunately do not have to worry about this issue.....we use coded lockboxes for our new construction homes along with the supra, just in case the agent is not from this area.....but that's ONLY on our new construction before it's finished.

We have an agent in our area who gives out lockbox codes on her own!

The combination of a showing service (both to schedule appointments and to collect feedback) and an electronic recording lockbox will solve the problem.

Thank you to whomever featured this article. The new addition to the Standards of Practice is important and hopefully this will be read by many National Association of Realtors® members.

We use the GE electronic lockboxes in this market, but since foreclosures came to dominate our market over half the listings have the old combo boxes. Interesting that the agents would put such a note on the mls but feel comfortable using the same codes over and over again. and never change the code day to day or week to week. Most of the time I dont even have to call for the code. Its either AMN or LIT or AMER or 2609 or 8590. or the front door has been left unlocked. If they are so concerned about the security of these assets then change the code .... every day...Of course that would mean the listing agents would actually have to get out of the office and take an interest in the property that they are trying to sell

I know its not right but if the owners dont care about security, why should I.

and Kris

Pending is not sold but how else can I get a key to my buyer (at or after settlement) if I dont take the key out of the box before settlement. And before I get off my soapbox, why dont the listing agents retreive the box. I used to ask my buyers to hold on to the box until the listing agent shows up but now they just toss the box in the trash

Lisa,   Many of my buyer clients are friends, or have come to me via referalls from friends. I still would never think to give a lockbox code to them. It surprises me that others do.

Cindy,   How did you handle it when you've witnessed it first hand? Did you ask the buyers for their agents name and call the listing agent to report it?

All Brokers Real Estate, I agree. A fine isn't enough. Suspension of license would put a stop to it.

Gary, Combo codes should never enter into the public domain. Appalling to think that could happen.

Mike, I would be thrilled if we went to a Supra system, but we can protect our sellers with combo boxes with security measures taken. Our broker and office personnel does, it's not that difficult.

Dorie,   Boy I'd like to catch an agent doing that. That's ridiculous and should never happen.

John, Those of us that have only combo lock box systems (no Supra or such in our association) do a darned good job of protecting our sellers. However, it's the lousy agent who gives out the information to trusted buyers that is causing a black eye.

Scott, Trespassing is what I thought of also, and wonder why when it happens and can be proved that a police report isn't filed.

Michael, Our office (and most others in our MLS) have a nice paper trail. I call for an appointment, my ID and office info is verified, and a separate call to me is placed with the lockbox combo. As a listing agent I also receive info on the showing via email and a phone call. Most offices practice security this way for our seller clients.

Irene, That's a nice secure way to do it. I don't blame you for not giving out the combo to buyers agents. You have another way of access that is comfy for you and your seller and that should suffice.

Barbara, Sounds like you handle things much the same way Irene (above does). It sounds like a good secure plan for your sellers.

I suspect the problems starts with all the REO and empty homes with their same code lock-boxes. Next comes using the same lockbox code on all your boxes. Today I am showing a home with a push button combo box with a code that is the initials of that company. Now with a sign in the yard and an alphabet combo box wouldn't you think... maybe some other code would give a little security.

I have not had this happen with any of my listings but I know it happens all the time with the bank owned homes. It should not happen on any home. A seller is a seller, whether private or bank.

The agents who pass out the codes need to be fined and BIG. That is an unethical way to do business. I walked in to one of my own investment homes and found a couple alone. Their lazy agent took off. I reported her to the board and they spanked her backside, lol.

Missy,   A few years ago Mirealsource™ tried getting the Supra (or Sentra?) pushed through. Agents balked because of the expense and it was dropped. I wish they would revisit it, especially because of all of the bank owned homes. Makes no sense to me at all why security isn't a bigger issue (especially with what happened 2 years ago at Realcomp)

Ellie,   Wow! Someone obviously had the lock box code that shouldn't have had it! Scary for your buyers and you I bet.

Progressive Realty,   How do I give sellers feedback? I call the buyers agent or send them an email asking for feedback. (Personally I don't put much stock in feedback and let my sellers know that the best feedback is an offer..but I digress :-) I am notified of each and every showing because our front desk staff does an awesome job with showing requests. I know who has been in my sellers homes and when they were there. Not having a Supra or Sentra doesn't take that away from me or my sellers.

Walter,   Has anyone turned her in for this? If not, why not???

Lorrie,   I agree. Our office has it's own "showing desk" and our staff is top notch when it comes to protecting our sellers. I would be livid if a buyers agent gave the info to a buyer and wouldn't hesitate to file a complaint. Having a Supra or Sentra would be nice, but it is not needed to secure our sellers homes.

Ron,   I'm actually laughing because 2 of the codes you rattled off are used in my area also. Let's also not get started on the universal HUD key...

As far as the "how do I get the key for my buyers" I bring it to closing (if it's immediate occupancy). The key and lockbox are there for the buyers agent for the final walk through. After it is completed I retrieve both and bring them to closing. In the case I stated above, the walk through was 3 days before closing and the agent took the key and gave it to the buyer. On the morning of closing my seller went to the house to retrieve a packet of documents she thought she left on a closet shelf and couldn't get in the home. (Hubby had the other set of keys). She thought she would get in to the house via the lockbox and couldn't. She was irate as well she should be. It's a shame that you have to be responsible for getting the key to your buyer. I wonder why the practice is different in your area.

Mary, I know. The universal lock box codes for the bank owned homes are stupid and insecure. (As well as the keys for the HUD homes.) It just shocks me that I could get in to any HUD home in this state with the keys that I have without calling the listing office to let them know I'm going to be there. Using the intials of the company seems to be hacker friendly :-)

Barb, You betcha! (A seller is a seller is a seller...) The buyers are also at risk: IF anyone can get in to the home that they have an offer pending then items can be removed and damage to the home done.

Elizabeth, I am SO glad to hear that you reported her!! So many people look the other way when this happens. How in the world can we expect it to stop if we don't do anything to put an end to it? Happy that she got her well deserved spanking!

Seems to me the problem will always exist at some level with combo boxes. It's good the NAR has addressed it though.

Combo lockbox are such dinosaurs! Use electronic, number one it is safer and two, you have some kind of trail of who has been coming through in the event something happens to the home. It is a shame we have to even worry about this but again it comes back to professionalism in our industry. Sometimes I do not know where it is.

This is a no brainer. How can you give out lockbox information to your client? The best is to use the electronic lockbox. I dare agents to give out their keypad to their client. I bet there are incidents like that too.

Kris, I don't like combo lockboxes. If you are not a realtor with access to our Supra system, how can I account for anything going wrong at the property. If you log in I have your time reference. If something happens after that I know that you were the last in. If I do a combo, then I enable people to give it to anybody they want to give it to. I am violating my duty to my client.

I just can't believe agents do this. Our clients have entrusted us with responsibility for controlled access to their homes - I can't think of a much worse violation of trust. I'm glad we use electronic lock boxes and a showing service.

I only use the electronic Sentrilock boxes, every access is recorded, they're the tools of the trade . It's amazing to me so many agents are still using the archaic combo boxes but of course there are no fees that go with those boxes.

Todd,   Agreed. But until all associations start using the Supra or such, agents HAVE to be held accountable for any misuse.

Sajy,   I wonder where the professionalism went also. I wish our association would switch to something else, but until they do we have to be on top of the bad agents and weed them out.

Mike, We can't use the Supra or Sentra or one of the others if our association doesn't start to implement them. No one in our area has them.

Joe, If I don't have access to another areas Supra or Sentra it's because I don't service the area. I refer buyer clients to someone in that area because it is the best thing to do for the buyer. Case in point: Missy Caulk is just 60 minutes or so down the road from me (in good traffic :-) but I have never sold a home in her area. I refer Ann Arbor buyers to her. (They use the Sentra or Supra systems, the association I belong to does not.)

Susan,   I can't think of a much worse violation of trust. Amen!

Linda, Until all of the local associations get on board with the Sentrilock (or other system) there isn't much we agents can do. Can you imagine if I was the only agent in our area with one of them on my sellers homes? It wouldn't be shown, and that's a disservice to my seller. I wish it would happen in my local association.

In the bustle of trying to get a property sold I can see that sometimes there's carelessness in protocol. It's just wise that all of us be reminded of proper standards of practice. Most people are just trying to do a good job and get a property sold. But, yes, please don't give out lockbox codes.

Kris - if these agents don't have the sense that God gave a moose, what makes you think that an article in the Standards of Practice will make them adhere to the rules?

Security is a top issue and if your association does not see it you must become and advocate especially if someone has entered your listings without permission. All you need is for one homeowner to sue an agent because of illegal access or if someone takes advantage and commits a crime and then everyone will be losing.

Become and advocate at your association - the cost is worth it because it provides peace of mind for everyone.

We're using Sentrilock key lock boxes now. And for a while after our board implemented this system we could give out "one day codes" that allowed someone access to the electronic key box without needing a key card. Recently, now that most of the greater metro area has switched over to the new lock boxes, the board disabled the ability to give out one day codes. I never saw the issue with this but the board thought that it was a problem. The real problem - if there is one is the one - is the use of combo boxes, not electronic lock boxes and one day codes. Ultimately the security of the property rests with the owners. While we have certain responsibilities to help insure that a property is secure, if someone really wants into a house they're going to get in no matter what - key lock box, combo box or not!!!

I hope the inclusion in the Standards of Practice makes a difference. Agents already know that they should not be giving out lockbox codes to buyers. Will having it in writing really make a difference. I would hope so, but I think not.

Thankfully we have electronic keyboxes, so that's not an issue here. Sometimes they'll have manual keyboxes on vacant properties, but not when the property is occupied.

But, yes, glad it's included in the COE.

Kris, it is so simple and sounds like common sense but it happens a lot. Thanks for the post to remind us all.

Code lock box or electronic Supra, you never know what the other agent or buyer is doing in there. It is always a risk. You just have to make your seller aware of the risks because you are not in control all the time. I try to change the code often...this way it is current and someone who saw it last week can't do so again this week without calling for an appointment. This helps..a little.

Two Words - Supra Key. Problem solved.

I'm amazed that buyers would actually work with an agent who would do such a thing. It says something about who they are and how quickly they are willing to take short cuts.

Frank, Giving a sellers lockbox code to an unauthorized person is more than a carelessness in protocol. If an agent is that busy that they cannot accompany a buyer to a showing then they need an assistant. Or take on less business.

Alan, .."The sense God gave a moose" . Cracked me up :-) The agents that violate this probably won't care about the rules, (and don't) but it gives us an avenue to hold them accountable for their actions. I like that.

Dynamic Real estate:    I agree with everything you said. Thank you. (I'm also surprised that we haven't heard of any lawsuits against agents for unauthorized access..)

Stephen,   I think the Sentra (and others) secure the property very well, but as you state, if someone wants access they'll find a way. Right now I think chastizing (and penalizing) lazy agents is a good start.

Charita,   The lazy agents probably won't even hear about this, until they are brought up on charges of course:-)

Lori,   Thank you. I agree. I'm glad it's being addressed also.

Ted,   It's another animal that has been spawned because of the foreclosure crisis I think.

Athina, I like that you change your codes weekly. Wonderful idea! I have a different code for each lockbox but you go one step further for safety.

Kelly St. Clair, I wish we had them. Until we do, security should be utmost and lazy agents should be held accountable.

Tammie, Dumbfounding isn't it? I wouldn't want my agent to do something like that if I was a consumer.

It seems like this would be common sense, huh? People who share the code a those who are too lazy to go out there and open the door. Not a good reflection on the work ethic!

Isn't this a huge reason why most MLS boards ask their agents to use some kind of secured box like the Supra? There is no code to give a consumer.

Bravo Kris! I've been noticing that verbage in the agent remarks on the mls for a while now also. This has been a pet peave of mine for a while and I can't tell you how many times I've had buyers call me and ask for a lock box code on REO's. You know what my answer was to those requests!

Congrats on the feature!

Melissa, I guess the definition of common sense isn't the same for everyone :-) Shame isn't it?

Donna, Unfortunately I'm in one of the MLS boards that do not have the Supra or Sentra. Wish they did.

Mike, I think I know your response, let me guess :-) "NO" followed by the dial tone. Am I right?

Edit: I think I'll call Mike next week on one of his listings and ask for the code :-))

Kris,

Nice featured post. I try not to ever use a combo lockbox. Once that code is given out to an agent, you never know what will happen.

Rich

Wow, its a shame this even has to be asked. Hopefully agents are reporting these agents doing this and they are fined heavily!

I have NOT seen that in our MLS but I know a showing service made a big deal about it on a bank owned property I showed just after the 1st of January.

It's a shame it has to be said.

I tried to open a combo box last year and couldn't get it to work. When I called the agent about it, he said he had just changed the combo because another agent had given it out to his clients! I was so surprised that it happened. It was the first I had heard of it.

Kris,

Ever since lockboxes with codes came into being, I've been concerned about this happening. Agents are often in a rush and write the code on a listing that they then end up throwing out or perhaps are even allowing the client to see (through carelessness). I'm not a huge fan of these lockboxes, but these days you have to use them.

I think the old days when we all had mls keys that fit mls lockboxes were much better. The keys were not able to be duplicated and therefore only realtors could get into a listing (or someone with a key).

It's a good thing to have this on your listing as a reminder to those careless agents.

Thanks for the great post. Another good rule would be to require agents to change the code from the default.

Can't understand the reason why an agent would willingly give a code to a buyer -- but it unfortunately happens.

I use MA PASS in Massachusetts, where at least you have to be a licensed agent to get the code. You also have to note when you are coming and going. This helps, but the I think the electronic ones are the best for security and accountability reasons. For empty listings, I am ok with combo lock boxes.

Good that this has been included in the Standards of Practice, though very troubling that it is necessary. Our MLS does have hefty fines for any agent who disregards showing instructions - & this would clearly fall into that category. Both the agent & the broker can be fined. And they should probably feel lucky if they ONLY get fined, rather than have a police report filed as this is such a blatant abuse of trust & hugely risky practice!

What in the world are the thinking?

Supra Lockbox 100%; I want to know who views my listings. If bank owned or contractor needs access to property put a combo box on with Supra and give the combination as needed. And when contractor is done combo box comes off as soon as seller OK's the work ...keep it secure and simple!

Kent Davis

I will not put a combo lock box on any of my listings. Electronic boxes should be mandatory with the exception of REO property.

Hi Kris, Re my previous comment (#37), we can give out a one day code with the Sentrilock keyboxes. That makes it accessible to agents without the Sentricard. I'm in the southwest suburbs of Chicago.

I can't stand the combo boxes. A lot of realtors will put the key back, close the door to the box and leave the combo numbers in the same place. Not secure by any means. Anyone can get a hold of the key very easily that way.

Hi Kris - It is sad that this has to be addressed as a Standard of Practice in the Realtor profession. Safety is a big issue in our industry and that is not only protecting our sellers and their property but also if we are representing our buyer the way we should it is also for their protection and the protection of our fellow Realtors. I agree with Melissa also, how does that reflect on someones work ethic? If you give someone the code to see the house and they purchased it, do you think they would call you back to list their house when they think about selling it? I wouldn't think so as they know how you run your business!

I know of some agents here that give out the code to customers on vacant houses to show it to their family members, not a wise thing to do.

Kris...

It is so very sad that has to be added. Common courtesy did not survive past our generation :)

We can teach our children well, but once our society get's a hold of them, we're screwed :)

TLW...ROAR!

I stick with SUPRA lockboxes for all the reasons previously mentioned. People caught passing out combinations should be fined and if they continue the behavior removed from the board/MLS. Until we build some accountability into the system, we'll never get it fixed.

Tom

Personally, I don't feel sorry for agents who are too cheap to buy a capture lock box like Supra, and instead opt for a combo box.

Kris,

It is pretty sad to imagine that a Realtor would be so lazy that they would have a client show themselves around a property instead of doing their job! I guess that is why having supra lockboxes in place is the best solution because clients can't open those.

Wendy

I rarely use combo boxes, but we have a few areas that on the edge of MLS zones which sometimes require a combo box and a key card box. It's almost stupid that someone wouldn't just understand that the code should not be given out. We wonder why we have so many laws...people can't hold themselves accountable for anything anymore so we let the government do it for us.

Hi Kris - I haven't seen this comment in our MLS, but have had a couple of potential buyers ask me if I could 'just give them the code so they can see the inside.' What's even scarier with REOs is that several agents use the same code for all of their properties, and the codes aren't really that hard to crack.

The solution is in the hands of the mls or the local board. Provide only lockboxes that do not open by a code. Provide keys with a code match that are agent specific. The agent has a key that opens evey lockbox in their multiple. If the agent give, or lend their key and code to another party, it is known immediately who's key was used and punishment should be strong and swift.

If you aren't using this type of keybox you are not servingn your sellers.

I imagine this content has already been posted but I haven't time to read all of them.

Kris, To me that would be like giving out the security code to your debit card. Not too smart...

Combo boxes are a necessary evil, I try and use electronic boxes whenever possible I hope your MLS upgrades soon!

I love the listing I saw last week that said ... in the public remarks ... the remarks that go on Realtor.com ... lockbox code is ABC. How's that for stupidity?! It wasn't a new listing, either.

NOTHING WILL CHANGE. Most sales agents do not care to read or follow the NAR SOP. When brokers hire ethical people ethical practice will follow.

It would be so simple to just ditch the combo boxes. Everyone seems to up on all the other techology that technology is prehistoric why is it still around? Supra or Sentilock are much better and sentrilock you get an email when someone enters your lisitng with thier name and contact info. You can also gie out day codes for an inspector a different day code for an appraiser etc. if the reatlor does not have a sentri card you can give them a day code which is only good for 1 day and only for them. Time to update that area of business.

I am another agent who dislikes the combo boxes. If they need to be on a listing (usually REO's) then put a Surpa on and a combo box. In my area I have seen several instances of Realtors giving out combo codes to their clients - and this makes me really angry. I hope that adding this to the NAR's standards will make a difference - but I don't think it will. Unethical agents who would give out codes most likely could care less about the NAR's standards of practice.

Lock box codes! How 20th century! The electronic ones are pretty cool.

We just got a call today from a seller client who had a very awkward, unwelcome visit from a buyer who recently put in an offer. We had to call the other broker to get them to set the guy straight.

Kris - it's a huge problem. Not only does the COE address it but our local MLS does as well. Folks can lose their right to the MLS if they give out the code...but of course it happens all the time.

I had a buyer tell me that she had gotten the codes for a combo box from the listing agents, and no agents accompanied her.

Jeff

Most REO companies have required codes, but that shouldn't stop the agent from putting on two lockboxes. One of them should be a Supra. I'm glad we have finally addressed this in our COE.

Until the documents, money and keys change hands at the settlement table, the potential buyer has no right to a key or uncontrolled access to the property. Handing out the key or the combo code (which is tantamount to the same thing) is unethical as well as dangerous. And if it happens before the property is under contract and the key is not returned properly, this practice also impedes the sale of the property by preventng access by other qualified buyers. Even without the new NAR standard of practice, does not common sense and common decency at the very least say do what you would want done with your own property. Keep the property secure. Keep your fellow agents safe. Maintain standards of behavior that elevate the public's perception of our profession.

We use Supra lockboxes. We don't have REO properties, and they are always coded lockboxes. It is a risk to give a lockbox code to an unlicensed person. Not a good idea and NAR agrees.

FEB

2010

All this makes me very glad that we have digital ekeys that record who comes into a listing. Many REO companies do require a lockbox with a code, but not all do. Some just require that the home be rekeyed with a certain number key so they can gain access.

I can't imagine that any of these agents would feel "just fine" if you sent in an unaccompanied buyer to one of their listing. That's a law suit ready to happen. I would imagine a police report could be filed as "breaking and entering". You don't have to actually break in for that to be true. And how naive are the buyers to think it is okay for them to wander through someone house unaccompanied.

The biggest question becomes - How can we as realtors expect home sellers and buyers to respect us as professionals when time and time again there are realtors who can't respect the profession?

Rich, Thank you. I wish we had a choice, but for now we are using the lockboxes and most agents (and brokerages) are extremely security pro-active with them.

Jasmine,   I don't know how often this was reported, but I would think that because NAR formally addressed it that means they've heard of several instances in which this happened.

Maureen,   The showing service must have had complaints coming in from agents and had that verbage added to their instructions. I agree with you, shame that it even has to be said.

Chrissi, I betcha that happened on a vacant home. That's where the laziness on agents parts seems to come in to play. Vacant to them means no harm, no foul.

Jo-Anne, If I had REO listings I would put that language, as well as "If I catch you I'll report you"..I've never heard of the MLS keys before, but from what you described that sounds very secure. Wasn't a bad idea at all.

J David,   That's a no brainer isn't it? I don't know why any agent would use the default code, other than once again, laziness.

Bob & Carolyn, I don't get it either. Thanks.

David, MA Pass sounds like a good system. Unfortunately, the instances that we hear of this happening are to the vacant homes.

Nancy, I agree with you about a police report being filed. If word got around that this was the consequence to pay I'd bet we wouldn't hear much more of it happening.

Monique,   Makes you scratch your head in wonder, doesn't it?

Kent, In a perfect world that is the way all homes would be handled :-) Those of us in service areas without Supra (or Sentra or one of the others) do all that we can do to keep our sellers homes secure.

Scott,   From what I'm hearing it's the REO properties that are the ones being violated. A seller is a seller is a seller...they should be protected from intrusion also.

Linda, I like the idea of a one day code. Thanks for clarifying.

Jackie, I've seen that also, often. Do you remember our school lockers? We always spun the dial on them, why wouldn't we do it on the lockboxes? Makes no sense.

Dwayne, I'm with you. I think this is one of the most unprofessional things we could do, and yet the agents who do this must not care about what their buyers think of them. I surely wouldn't hire an agent who could do this and expect them to handle my transaction with any care or trust.

Alan, Have you reported those agents???

Billie,   You're right. We do all we can then the choices are up to them.   Otherwise we'd be arrested for assault if we tried to change their behaviour as adults :-))

Tom, I'd be a bit tougher. Suspension on first offense.

Aaron,   I think this is why having the Supra in our area was turned down by members..the cost. Wish it wasn't. I remember sending an email to our board asking them to approve it. But my vote obviously didn't matter.

Wendy,   Wish they were here in my area. Perhaps now that NAR added this our board will revisit the issue.

David, I agree. Because we the people are becoming more lazy more laws to control what should be common sense and decency are enacted.

John,   I haven't had a buyer ask yet, and can't imagine anything but "No" would come out of my mouth. What I've wondered about the REO'S is this: Since so many of them use the same codes, is that something that the bank owners insist on? (For convenience to their contractors)

Glenn, The solution is in the hands of the mls or the local board I fully agree!

Michael, Haha! If it was their own home I'm sure the agents wouldn't be giving it out.

Jason, I hope they do also. It's well past time.

Judy,   That's scary. I can't believe the agent or their broker didn't pick up on the fact that it went into to the public remarks!! Plus, it takes Realtor.com a few days to refresh any changes.

Glen,   Brokers need to do their due diligence, I agree. However, if brokers don't know their agents are doing this, they can't put a stop to it. Reporting is the key.

Jackie, I know! How hard is it to turn the tumbler???

Clark,   Posting this article, and reading all of the responses has caused another "to do" item for Monday morning: Calling our local board and asking why this hasn't been discussed again? (Getting Supra or Sentra) Thanks.

Vicki,   They'll care once they get reported and their is some teeth in the consequences. Hopefully what NAR has done will raise awareness so agents will feel empowered to report.

Wayne,   Haha! You bet. 21st century is what is needed everywhere now.

J Philip, Pleaseeee tell me that the buyer knocked on the door and didn't have the lock box code. If they did have the code, you need to report that agent to your local association.

Jeff, I consider myself blessed that I haven't run in to this personally, but you're right: We need to report it each and every time it happens. I'm not sure about what our local MLS has done, but now that NAR has made this official I'm sure the boards can't turn their backs on it.

Carol, That's what I suspected (mandatory codes from the bank owned asset managers) Your solution, having a Sentra also, makes good sense.

Isaac,   Absolutely! Maintaining a standard of behaviour shouldn't be that difficult to do.

Frank and Sharon, I'm glad they addressed it also. Thank you.

No-Name:   That's one of the issues I have with this also: How in the world can we expect consumers to have respect for our profession when we don't treat the profession with integrity? The agents that do this give us all a black eye. Thank you.

Kris, THANKS for your response. Yes, YES--am confident that the vast majority of agents are great and ethical in EVERY association! But, of course, it is for the few exceptions that causes this whole issue to even have to be discussed. Probably past time every association considers transferring to an electronic-based system, due to same. Am enjoying keeping up with all the great comments & observations. Thanks for the post!!! -JC/CBA

It all comes down to respect for others' property. Years ago, before I was a Realtor, my builder husband came home after hearing a group of agents discussing their listings at lunch. He said it was terrible - they talked about the property like it was theirs, not someone elses.

We have had two security instances in our area recently: one a "buyer" toured some high end homes, left a window unlocked, gained entry and moved in. In another, on mechanical lockbox, someone meticulously robbged the home of things like granite counters, copper pipe, etc.

I use electronic lockboxes, not mechanical. I will meet agents there if they do not have a key card. I do not lockbox homes with pets.

My wife and I are both Realtors. It's funny we share everything, but lock box keys and codes. Some things are just too sacred.

It is utterly unfathomable that people do this and very sad that it actually has to become an official ruling versus common sense and normal ethical behavior.

Yikes I can't imagine putting a combo box on my sellers home! I guess I would need to up my insurance.

FEB

2010

Great post! Thanks for sharing and congratulations on the feature.

A few weeks ago I got a call from a potential buyer who was at one of my listings about 40 minutes away. He wanted me to give him the lockbox code so he could go in and look at the house. I said no, but made an appointment to meet him later that day. I called to verify the appointment before leaving and sure enough he cancelled.

Dear Kris...

I've given the lockbox code to my Buyer because we're closing next week and they wanted to start moving some belongings into the house. I hope you're okay with that. If not please let me know, but keep in mind I've already given them the code. Sincerely, Mr Ka Ka Head :)

1. Wrong.

2. Can't legally get them out of the house if it doesn't close. Possession is nine tenths of the law. But I suggest you seek the opinion of an Atty on that scenario :)

3. We used Supra for awhile. The problem there is we can't get to know the Agents we'll be working with when they come and go at will.

4. How do you push a listing that somehow didn't make it into a search criteria if you use Supra? It's not like you can have a conversation with a Supra :)

I have a gazillion rebuttals for any scenario on this one but I'll knock it off. This is Kris's pretty featured post :)

TLW...ROAR!

FEB

2010

we are seeing the same thing - and it amazes me - why would anyone want that liability - the only lockboxes we have with combos though are typically bank owned homes - but still

John, You're welcome :-) Isn't it always the case that a couple of bad apples causes these types of things to become an issue?

Margaret,   Those incidents are scary AND should never have happened. Once again, I wish our local association particpated in the electronic systems.

Bob, That cracked me up :-)) Not sharing lock box codes? I like how you keep your business and personal lives separate.

Mark,   It's unfathonable to me also and to most agents I would suspect.

Sherry,   We can keep them safe with good procedures, but I would much prefer the electronic ones myself.

Jeff, You're welcome, thanks for stopping by.

Ann, Doesn't surprise me. I'm also glad you didn't meet a stranger at a home instead of your office for the first time.

Billie,   No need to stop, I always enjoy Mr. Ka Ka Heads responses to things :-)))   Hope you're doing well! BTW, give it a year. I bet some programmer will figure out a way for agents to type in feedback directly into the electronic boxes, then you can have your electronic conversations!!! Not a darned thing that is techie suprises me anymore.   Uh oh. Watch: Someone will read this and do this and make a gazillion dollars and I won't see one cent of it.

Thesa, I think in my area that it is the bank owned homes that this is happening to. Many people above suggested using both the electronic access and lockboxes...electronic for agents, lockbox for service providers.

You can do feedback with Supra... or could that may have been our last version of Supra. I tried it for awhile but most agents were NOT checking their email at the time.

You could use a CBS (call before showing) code on Supras then agents have to call for that code before they can get the key out. If someone is abusing it there is a record. All showing in our market are scheduled through the listing office (or most likely now a showing service), just because there is a SUPRA on a front door that does not give anyone the right to enter. Much more secure than a combination lock box.

Bank owned homes are mostly on combo boxes though here too, most anything that is vacant is.

A vendor / RE guru was a local agent in a former lifer. An agent in my office was fit to be tied when they made a copy of the key from the lockbox for the buyer once they were in contract so the buyer could just let themselves in. With MLS participants like that NOTHING is going to keep the buyer from coming and going at will from a property they don't yet own.

Maureen, Aha! I had no idea you could do feedback with it (or one of them :-) There goes my gazillion dollar idea..

Our local associations don't use any form of the electronic boxes (sounds rare now from what I've been reading). The CBS that you talked about sounds like a no-brainer. Added security to the access is always best. I still don't get why bank owned homes aren't treated to the same type of service. I know that vendors need access (and probably don't have Supra or Sentra keys) so a lockbox just for them makes sense. But I liked what I read about other REO agents who use both. One set of access for agents, another to satisfy the vendor requests from the asset manager.

Some of the stories I've read from other commenters make me sick, as in the one you stated above. You're right, with MLS participants and agents like this there really is nothing we can do to stop it. What we can do is report them each and every time.

agents get all bent out of shape over having to use a CBS code to get into a home. I put a lockbox with a CBS code on a house in Dublin because there were two houses on the market on the cul-de-sac... chance of someone showing the wrong home and there was a security system. Walk in and that goes off and you are calling our office to say you weren't given the security system code... well since you never scheduled an appointment... to show the house...

One of the top agents in our town her listings always have a CBS code. In the dark in the cold it can be a hassle.

I believe E & O is less with a secure lock box system (such Supra and Sentra) on occupied properties but you can use combination lockboxes on vacant homes. I think using both is good but I think sometimes the lockbox for vendors ends up being given out to agents. Savings on E & O probably does not offset the cost of the lockboxes.

I can not believe areas that are urban that don't use an electronic lockbox system but I know with overlapping MLS in a region it can get to be a hassle and expensive. We are floating out in the middle of the state without a lot of overlap. Yes people from more rural areas a bit outside of Columbus will try to get the listing agent to meet them so they can show a listing in our mls if it is on Supra.... or only show properties on combination lockbox occasionally....

FEB

2010

This is sad. I showed a house a couple days ago and the agent asked me to make sure all the doors were locked before I left....I can't believe she had to ask.

Leave a response…

Name:

Email:
(optional)

Comment:

What does the graphic say?

Kris Wales - Macomb County MI real estate blog & homes for sale search site

Macomb, MI

More about me…

Keller Williams Realty - Lakeside Market Center

Address: 45609 Village Blvd., Shelby Township, MI, 48315

Office Phone: (586) 536-5453

Email Me

A partner for your real estate
needs in Macomb County.

Looking for a full time real
estate professional with over
a decade of experience in
Macomb County MI and it's
surrounding areas?

Feel free to get to know me and
how I conduct my business by
reading here and visiting
Chataboutmacomb.com and
Macombhomes.com

I'm a firm believer that the best
real estate relationship is a
partnership. We work together
to achieve your goals - whether
it be in purchasing your first
home or selling your present
home to purchase another or
to relocate.

Please feel free to email me at
any time. I would enjoy chatting
with you and getting to know you.

Links

Archives

Find MI real estate agents and Macomb real estate on ActiveRain.

Disclaimer: ActiveRain Corp. does not necessarily endorse the real estate agents, loan officers and brokers listed on this site. These real estate profiles, blogs and blog entries are provided here as a courtesy to our visitors to help them make an informed decision when buying or selling a house. ActiveRain Corp. takes no responsibility for the content in these profiles, that are written by the members of this community.