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February 10, 2010 by Dennis Volz  

I’ve been hearing a lot about the Numis Network lately. There’s a lot of talk about this one-of-a-kind Network Marketing company. It certainly is unique in that it’s the only one, at least to my knowledge, that sells numismatic coins.

I also hear lots of ’slogans’ — “Autoship that increases your net worth.” and “Why Not Buy Money”. These are coupled with lots of comparisons to other traditional network marketing products because, “You don’t have to test it, learn how to use it, drink it, develop a taste for it or demonstrate it — Because IT’S MONEY!”

Seems that the slogans boil down to the comparison that with everyone else you get ‘useless’ stuff that can pile up in your garage, but who wouldn’t want a garage full of MONEY!

This concept troubled me, so I did a little research.

Buying money looks like a good idea. On the surface, it sounds like a no-brainer.

But is it?

I’m a numbers guy because I believe that in dieting and business, the figures never lie.

So I went to an expert. A gentleman I know right here in San Diego who has been buying and selling coins for over 30 years. Makes a VERY GOOD living at it, I might add.

Here’s what he told me:

Most uninformed consumers purchase these coins at retail. They have four values:
1. Retail
2. Wholesale
3. Spot
4. Currency.
Retail is what most consumers will pay for the coin. Wholesale is how much a dealer will pay for them either from another dealer or from a consumer who wants to “cash in” his coins. Spot is simply the value of the metal. Currency is the value of the coin to buy something at Walmart.
He also gave me the wholesale values of the two coins described below – AKA; Reality.

(I encourage you to check this out for yourself with a coin dealer in your area. Just call a local coin shop.)

The true value of any asset is the amount of dollars you can get in exchange. Your house is worth what a buyer will pay you for it in dollars. A car lists for $2900 in the Auto Trader for 3 weeks and the seller finally takes the best offer of $2000. That car is worth $2000. Doesn’t matter what the seller paid for it.


The 2009 MS 70 PCGS Silver Eagle sells at the Numis Network for 149.95.
Let’s look at it’s four values:
Retail: 149.95
Wholesale: $25-50
Spot: $15.54 (1 oz of Silver 2/9/10)
Currency: $1


The 2009-W PR70 ANACS $50 Gold Buffalo sells at the Numis Network for $1,899.95.
Let’s look at it’s four values:
Retail: $1,899.95
Wholesale: About $100 over Spot ($1180)
Spot: $1080 (1 oz of Gold 2/9/10)
Currency: $50

If these numbers are correct and unless a collector can unload his entire collection at retail prices (unlikely) then his “assets” from The Numis Network are worth 1/3-2/3 of what he paid and likely never to recover back to the retail price.

If you’re spending $150+ a month on an autoship, do you want to be buying anything with a liquidation value that’s 1/3-2/3 of what you paid for it?

That’s NOT increasing your net worth. That’s destroying it.

NUMIS STATEMENT (from their website):
Investment Disclaimer:
Collectors purchasing coins from Numis Network should view such purchases strictly in the context of purchasing coins as collector coins. Numis Network does not promote the collecting of numismatic coins for investment purposes, nor provides any investment advice whatsoever. Numismatic coins may decrease or appreciate in value based on numerous factors, including spot price of silver, gold and collector’s demand. Collectors should consult their own financial expert for any investment advice.

Seems to me that Numis Network is selling “money” at an inflated price. They make it clear in the above statement that you should be in this as a COLLECTOR not an INVESTOR. They seem to be saying to get these if you like to collect them, but don’t expect to break even or much less make a profit.

Spending $2000 over a year on numismatic coins to find that you have a set of coins worth $700 or $800 can be a little disturbing.

Let’s keep our eyes wide open here in the marketplace…

 

To Your Success,

Please call me if you have questions...

.
Dennis Volz

Dennis Volz is the owner of a State Farm Insurance Agency in San Diego, CA since 1978.

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Email: DennisVolz@gmail.com
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7 Comments on Numis Network a Scam? Numis Network Review. Some Hard Questions

FEB
15
2010
198,931 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

I had never heard of Numis before, interesting.

5:35am • #1
408,526 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

This brings to mind the Beanie Baby craze when people were "investing" in this collectible.  What are the retail and wholesale prices for this commodity now?  Good, well researched post Dennis.

8:52am • #2
FEB
28
2010

I have been a coin collector for over 45 years. Over those 45 years I have spent a lot of time and money educating myself about coins so I would be a better collector and so I would enjoy the hobby better. This education also helps me avoid making bad purchases (e.g., overpaying for over-hyped "investment" coins).

The value of a coin is dependent on several factors, most important of which are rarity and condition. Coins are graded on a 70-point scale of 1 to 70. A grade of P-1 (Poor-1) indicates the coin is so worn that it is barely recognizable. At the other end of the spectrum a grade of MS-70 (Mint State (another way of saying Uncirculated) -70) means the coin is perfect with no visible defects. MS-70 grades are extremely rare except for modern coins minted within the last 10 to 15 years. MS-70 grades are more common than ever now with improved methods and materials at the Mint.

The value of a coin generally increases with grade but once you get into the MS grades (MS-60 to MS-70) the value can jump significantly with an increase of a single grade point. The differences between MS-69 and MS-70 are so slight that most experienced collectors and dealers cannot tell the difference. Why pay a huge premium for a difference most people cannot detect?

Grading is not an exact science; it is highly subjective. A coin that grades MS-69 one day may grade MS-70 another day (and vice versa). And who are the people doing the grading? There are countless grading services out there but only a few have stellar reputations and are willing to stand behind their grade. ANACS - the grading service that graded the coin shown in the OP is one of them. I would also recommend PCGS, NGC and ICG. There are TONS of fly-by-night grading services that are known to assign a grade of MS-70 to a coin that the top-tier grading services would grade at no more than MS-65.

Another thing to consider is this - the "coins" shown or described in the OP are not really coins in the true sense. They are bullion. They were given face values ($1 for the ASE (American Silver Eagle) and $50 for the Gold Buffalo) primarily to make it easier for the "coins" to pass customs in other countries (thereby opening up a larger market for the US Mint). These "coins" were never meant to circulate. (Who would buy an ASE for $15 or $20 and spend it as a $1 coin?) But there are a lot of collectors of these bullion "coins".

So what does all this mean? Unless you are a highly experienced collector I would strongly recommend that you not pay large premiums for super-high-grade coins. Leave investing in high-grade coins to the experts. 

If you want a nice example of an ASE or a Gold Buffalo go to your local coin dealer (who is well-established and a member of the American Numismatic Association) and buy one graded MS-65 for perhaps $25 or $30. Unless you have a trained eye you will not be able to spot the difference between the MS-65 and the MS-70. If you want to save even more money buy a raw "coin" (one that has not been graded and slabbed by a grading service). Better yet, buy your bullion "coin" directly from the US Mint.

1:50am • #3
MAY
19
2010

I believe in Numis and what they have done. They do acquire quality ANACS and PCGS products mint state 70 silver coins and more. I've done the research and I've chosen to join. I've had my eye on them for about 3 weeks now. Im convienced. There may be alot of people on You Tube running there mouths about it, but for the most part its real and its a workable product. The demand will rise sugnificantly in about 2 to 4 years from today anyway. The Euro is smashed, China is next although they have all of Africas gold and copper resources locked down, America will be the 1st to prevail and start using more silver in our pocket change.  Goto You Tube and search for  "A Silver Shortage?"  Have a great day fellas..  ;-)

John
7:40am • #4
SEP
16
2010

Hey Dennis,

I just want to correct some of the errors in this article, respectfully.

Silver Eagles don’t sell for 149.95 like you suggested they sell retail for $119.95 and preferred for $99.95.

Retail meaning if you were not involved in the business side of building residual income and preferred meaning you’re part of the company.

You also said that the The 2009-W PR70 ANACS $50 Gold Buffalo sells at the Numis Network for $1,899.95.

This is true.

The 2009-W PR70 ANACS $50 Gold Buffalo sells for 1,899.95 retail and 1,799.95 preferred.

You also said, “If you’re spending $150+ a month on an autoship, do you want to be buying anything with a liquidation value that’s 1/3-2/3 of what you paid for it?”

The autoship consist of 1 silver coin a month including websites which is not $150+ a month it’s around $110. $99 for your coin and $10 for your website plus shipping.

If the idea was to flip the coins as soon as you got them then yes the value of your coins if you tried and sold them to a coin dealer would be 1/3 to 2/3 of what you paid for them. Coin dealers need to make money too.

If you sold them to other Numismatic coin collectors you would more then likely sell them for more.

$1200 a year is what someone will spend on autoship not 2000+. Remember there is a business side to Numis.

While we are on this particular subject I can’t think of any other MLM company where you can take the product and think about what it will be worth 5-10 years from now. I’ve looked on Npros.com and tried to find one.

I don’t think people join Numis Network and not try and build the residual side of it. I think that’s pretty common among Network Marketers.

But like I said if you look at all the MLM companies out there most if not all are selling something overpriced just to cover the compensation plan and sometimes (My opinion)—–>I feel like products were created just to be sold in network marketing overpriced.

Numis Network is only 1 year old and collectors (not investors) have been buying these coins on Home Shopping Network for 20 years at these prices from Mike Mezack. Numis Network stepped in and created a category in network marketing with an already high demand for Numismatic coins.

I personally wouldn’t refer to these coins as assets because I would not try and flip these coins….especially to a coin dealer.

I define an asset as something that puts money in your pocket (cashflow) every month without you working. I would call the residual side once built up an asset because it puts money in your pocket every month. Once that happens you will technically be getting your coin for free. But the coin will only put money in your pocket if you sell it.

I don’t know if you are in network marketing but you seem like you have a decent following and people respect your opinion. I think you owe it to the people who look to you for answer to do a bit more research on Numis. That way you have all the facts when you write a post.

Not everybody likes Numis Network and that’s ok. I just feel we all need to take responsibility in our writing and make sure we have the facts before we write about MLM companies regardless of which company it is and if we like them or not. This industry already has people rolling their eyes at it but I know as a whole we can turn that around and show people that this industry while may have some bad apples can be a very fun, honest, and lucrative path.

People come online to find the facts and I feel as bloggers we should be as factual as possible.

Eric
11:31am • #5
OCT
24
2010

I agree with Eric,

JP McClure
10:02am • #6

I easily agree with Eric,

 

I must also add that the opportunity afforded by Numis Network is second to none when  the full combination of all the facts are borne out within (not without) an overall balanced sense of view -- especially when re-viewing the historical to current timeline values affecting the supply and demand issues and equations unquestionably afoot and considerable most everywhere.

 

Really there is little involving the mysterious or unknown here to be said.  No ones 'I said so' crystal balls or particular brand of rocket science or even skeptical speak for that matter will do much to actually change down the dominating facts of reality here.

 

Where does that land you in the big and/or little scheme of things?  That depends an awful lot on your personal habits of simply believing or taking the time to make more known whatever it is you find significant enough to really take seriously?

 

All the best,

JP McClure

iboofast@yahoo.com

 

PS   google    "Numis HULK"    (gives a significant clue to what is going on here)

 

 

JP McClure
10:23am • #7

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Dennis Volz

San Diego, CA

More about me…

State Farm Insurance

Address: 10791 Jamacha Bl, Suite 1, Spring Valley, CA, 91978

Office Phone: (619) 670-1000

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I'm always looking for high-quality, active Realtors, Lenders and others who desire to build relationships and network with each other. Let's connect :)

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