Active Rain Banned By Google : Link spam ruins great resource

I would imagine that got everyones attention - It's not true, but it could happen and unless some changes are made, it may very well become a reality.

This will be a very long post, but if you would like to see Active Rain stay in Google's good graces like I would, I think it's important that you read this.

Active Rain is a social networking / blogging community that has opened it's doors and very graciously allowed it's users (Realtors and other professionals servicing the real estate industry such as myself) to post unmoderated user contributed content. Now I do realize there is a flagging system in place and there are in fact moderators who respond to flagged posts and profiles that may violate the terms of service of Active Rain, but where are the search engine spam guidelines? Did I miss them?

I decided to research and write this post following the recently reported Google penalty of Squidoo another high quality (Although not real estate related or niche specific) social networking website that allows user contributed content to be published without manual review. You can read more about the Squidoo penalty here

Before writing this post, I read every guideline and FAQ I could get my hands on at Active Rain, and to my surprise there was not a single mention of search engine spam, or link farm creation. Now I cannot pretend that I am aware of the level of knowlege the owners and moderators have when it comes to search engine spam, but because they are not search engine consultants, and do not make their living from working with search engine algorithms, I highly doubt that they have ever had to deal with a search engine penalty, or ever had to concern themselves with search engine spam - Don't get me wrong, Active Rain is great, and the people behind it have done an excellent job - I just think that because the whole social networking and user contributed content thing is so new to them, they may need some help from those of us a little more familiar with search engine algorithms, and have run forums or blogs for long enough to encounter some of the serious consequences that can come about from not having the proper checks (rules, guidelines, education, enforcement and moderation)

So what are you talking about Morgan? What do you see at Active Rain that could cause problems with the search engines?

There are quite a few things I see as "potential" issues, but for the purpose and scope of this article I am going to focus on link spam or link abuse.

The first case I am going to point out (Has already been dealt with, thank you Active Rain) and that is an active rain member who had created a profile on both Active Rain and Localism that links to TONS of spammy cookie cutter websites, his intention was to attempt to create a link farm which he could hopefully increase his main websites rankings (He is wrong btw, this is not a good search engine technique) - in fact, this spammer had a whopping 303 outbound links to 303 different doorway pages with cookie cutter content - Link farms, doorway domains and cookie cutter content are all violations of the Google webmaster guidelines. For your convenience I have quoted Google and provided a screenshot of the spam links below:

Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web, as your own ranking may be affected adversely by those links. Active Rain was doing this without their knowlege as this user was creating a bad neighborhood right on Active Rain. This user has sinse been reported and the link spam removed (Thanks again)

Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content. (Yup this guy was doing that to, and then of course using Active Rain to link to them.

Avoid "doorway" pages created just for search engines, or other "cookie cutter" approaches such as affiliate programs with little or no original content. Three strikes, I could rip this guy apart some more, but by now I hope you are starting to paint a picture. (The above quotes were sourced from the official Google webmasters guidelines.)

Here is the screenshot so that you can see how rediculous this looks (I can only capture so many links with a screen cap, but trust me there were 303 different links on one page to 303 different domains!


Now you be saying to yourself, well this isn't the majority of users at Active Rain, we care about our content and try our hardest to maintain quality posts, how could this one guy spamming get us into trouble? In truth just one person doing this sort of thing would likely not be able to earn Active Rain a penalty in Google - but what you must understand about spammers is that when there is an opportunity (Such as there is at Active Rain) they flock to it. Soon your website is overrun with spammy profiles and articles, and Google is receiving thousands of spam reports daily, reporting the link spam their competitors are implementing via Active Rain, in order to gain them an unfair advantage. No matter what reputation a website has guys, if enough of these happen, Google will respond - and when they do Active Rain will have to deal with a very unpleasant situation which can (I believe) be avoided by implementing appropriate (rules, guidelines, education, enforcement and moderation) - We as Active Rain members can help as well by flagging any spammy post or profiles we see, so as to help the moderators out doing their jobs - I am sure they do their best, but they can't catch everything, with our help I think they can.

Ok - I was really planning on writing more on link spam, and providing some more examples of link spam, but it is getting late - and hopefully I can continue this article as a Part 2 - In the meantime, please share this article with your friends at Active Rain, or anyone who cares about conserving the great place the Active Rain staff have created for us.

Some initial suggestions for the Active Rain support staff and moderators.

Allow no more than an average of 1 outbound link per 150 words of content posted.

Implement a no follow algorithm - If a particular user was reported a certain amount of times by other AR members, apply a rel="nofollow" to all outbound links in profiles and posts on their account. This is an attractive alternative to suspending or banning because it would provide the user the opportunity to clean up their act and request removal of algorithm - I would imagine a one shot deal is enough - if they do it again, the algorithm becomes permanent, or suspension or banning may be required.

Limit of maximum 5-10 outbound links in side navigation of blogs and in user profiles (Does anyone really need more than 5-10 websites? If they do, they are likely attempting to game the search engines.

No hyper linking of keywords in text to websites irrelevant to the subject matter of the article posted.

Apply nofollow to all new user accounts (Blogs and profiles) - This could removed after a user has at least x amount of blog posts, could be small - like 5 or 10 blogs. This would help discourage fly by spammers just interested in links, or at least stop them from getting credit for the link dropping they are doing. As a positive note this would also encourage new users to post.

 

50 Comments on Active Rain Banned By Google : Link spam ruins great resource

JUL
19
2007
372,524 Points 63 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
SUPERB! I am learning so much and have already. It is an incredible resource for us and I hope others will help you help the owners to prevent us form losing the great resource we all have. Thanks and I will learn more and keep my eye open to do my small part. If we all help the owner's we can assure that we will be here a very long time. Thanks again.
1:14am • #1
372,524 Points 63 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
I just rated your post a 5. No points on this 2nd comment because I hit my quota for scoring a long time ago,lol
1:16am • #2
415,897 Points 17 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Wow. I had no idea. Have you e-mailed AR?  BTW, my last post had quite a few outbound links, which were necessary to make my point. It was about sex offenders in our neighborhoods, and I needed to link to the sites that gave the laws for each state, the ability to check who lives in your neighborhood, the Federal list, etc. Would you mind checking it and telling me if this would be an example of what you're advising against? I ask because I definitely have more than 1 link per every 150 words.  Feel free to check a couple of other ones if you want. I'm just now learning about SEO and have finally succeeded in getting my blogs and web site into the first , second and third pages of a Google search, under several different search terms. I definitely do not want to jeopardize that! Thanks!

Lisa Hill

1:20am • #3
343,204 Points Outside Blog
Your headline had me scared there for e minute.... whew. But you are right, people need to be sure that the headline does not become a reality.
1:27am • #4
147,538 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I gave you a "4" because I would think that the AR folks would be aware of these issues (I hope) and that Google would at least work with the AR people before they would punish all 38,XXX of us.

I do have a question for you or for anyone else who would care to answer it, "Does anyone else think that Google might be turning into a bully?"

 

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc. 

1:27am • #5
3 Featured Posts

Lisa- thanks for your comments and questions - With regards to the 150 words, it was a suggested guideline, it is not a rule here at AR, but more importantly (And this is going to be one of the most important lessons I will ever teach you about SEO) is that if you are truly doing something for your users (As you stated) then you should never have to worry about being accused of spamming the search engines - in fact, that is what they want to see - quality content produced with the user (Not the search engine) in mind.

My suggestions are based on (And meant to apply) to users who are abusing the system, not those that are attempting to play within it, and just doing things that their content naturally dictates they need to do (In all honesty, I am not sure if my post has less than 1 link per 150 words lol) - but I don't care, because they are there to support the article and help the user, not because I am trying to spam AR or send myself a bunch of backlinks. 

If you are interested in learning more about outbound link spam in posts, you might also want to check out http://activerain.com/blogsview/150219/Outbound-link-abuse-when

 

1:32am • #6
3 Featured Posts

Bob, that is not the way Google works, they do not give you warning or contact you if you are in violation of the Google terms of service, they evaluate their spam reports and take action where they feel it is warranted. Squidoo is much larger than Active Rain, and they were just penalized - I know you are likely green to this situation, but sadly that is the way it is. 

In terms of AR being aware - why would they be? As I said in my post, they are not search engine consultants, and likely have no experience with the less than fun side of search (The penalty side) - they are technology and real estate experts, that much you can be sure of - but I am sure they will be the first to admit, this is likely new territory for them (Of course I think you are right, and I am sure they have talked about it many times, I am just nudging them to take action :)) 

1:37am • #7
232,025 Points 39 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Hope someone listens to you.  When I say it I get slammed for "being negative".
1:47am • #8
134,956 Points Outside Blog
Great post Morgan.  Good point of view on this topic.  Some bad apples can spoil the whole bunch!  I gave you a 5 on this one.
1:48am • #9
3 Featured Posts
Ardell, I am sorry if you feel you have been received that way, that never feels good. I hope they do listen, because I took a long time to write this out, and I did it because I care about keeping this resource alive so that myself and my clients can continue to utilize it as the great networking and marketing tool that it is. 
1:53am • #10
Outside Blog
Exellent article.  I'm glad you took the time to point this out.  I feel overwhelmed at times trying to keep up with and follow the guidelines. 
2:22am • #11

You write a powerful Title. You sacred me silly.  It worked and I am pleased your bring up these points.  I am a total novice but I love AR and what its doing for me and I would hate to loose it.

Thanks for a great post.

I have been to Nanaimo and loved it.  Hope to visit again someday soon.

2:31am • #12
294,111 Points 100 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
This was a very well written post & I have bookmarked it for further reference.  Thanks for taking the time to do this research and post it.
2:44am • #13
7 Featured Posts

Wow, thanks for the heads up on this issue!  Some of the things you wrote about I did not fully understand, like inbound/outbound links and "doorway" pages, but I have a rough idea.

I hope a very blog/tech knowledgeable person would write a series of posts defining and explaining blogging terms and the tech terms associated with blogging...because you have written a very good post, and I would like to understand it better.

3:24am • #14
Thanks for the information, Morgan. As always, you are "right on the money."
4:29am • #15
161,830 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Morgan, this was a very enlightening post. I hope the people at AR heed your warning. I would hate to see this site get penalized.

 

5:04am • #16
186,786 Points 12 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Scary headline with the unfortunate possibility of becoming a reality.  It seems evermore important to report these people with the overabundance of links and to increase our presence elsewhere.  Thanks for a great article!
6:54am • #17
118,799 Points

Morgan:

Good post. Something to think about.  

7:49am • #18
9 Featured Posts
Morgan thank you for taking the time to write this out. This is a common problem for any site that is fairly new to the online market. Often times growth can be so explosive that the rules get bent and sometimes flat broken even with the best of intentions. What is critical for the owners and members of ActiveRain to know is that if they don't comply with Google's policies than this site will be little more than a "Myspace for Real Esate Professionals". I know not everyone is here for SEO reasons, but it sure as heck is why I am here and I don't intend to waste my time. 5 stars, excellent post.
9:25am • #19
51 Featured Posts

Thanks Morgan.  We actually intend upon formalizing the policy but link farming isn't allowed here.  The first reference "rule" was  written by Matt about a year ago.  We haven't kept up with these which is why I was going to make a formal announcement about it. 

 

11:48am • #20
JUL
20
2007
1 Featured Post
This is right on the money, there are way to many Active Rain members who post garbage just to get links.  there are fewer but still some who basically abuse the system and create link farms out of each of their posts,  I have seen blog posts with 10 links in them to different pages of their website.  I have seen other posts which are basically Real Estate Directories with 15 links each to a different members personal website, that is crazy and must stop.
10:47am • #21
201,820 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Morgan, Thanks for raising this topic. As little as Iknow of SEO, this possibility had crossed my mind. Let's wait for the guidelines!

Ginger

12:23pm • #22
JUL
23
2007
222,654 Points 8 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I can see where this could be a problem - this is a bit excessive.

Now Have a Blessed Day,

John Occhi, Hemet CA REALTOR®
Mission Grove Realty
Hemet CA Real Estate

10:30pm • #23
JUL
25
2007
600,837 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router
I sure wish I could figure out who this person is trying to make themselves look so good in the DFW area... I tried to figure out with the main people I thought it would be, but nope...  Either way, how wrong!!!
8:43am • #24
137,950 Points 15 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Morgan-

Excellent article - I think that the number of Members that are going over the line is small - for now.

But everyone needs to be aware of the fact that these fools can ruin it for all of us.

*** Flagged for a Feature

8:59am • #25
Thank you for the warning for the good of all of us at AR who try to keep it clean and spam free.  I will rank you 5 so that this post will get around to everyone hopefully. 
10:54am • #26
182,119 Points 9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Interesting perspective, I have noticed several members loading their blogs with links to other articles they have written which I assume is an attempt to improve the search engine hits they receive but I am not very knowledgeable on the subject. 

Seems to me a problem of this magnitude should be addressed quickly and if indeed your warning is accurate it should be FEATURED for all to see.  Many users may unknowingly be spamming by providing so many links in the posts...

1:07pm • #27

I hope this doesn't happen. I'm really enjoying ActiveRain and the Google benefit. Someone always has to throw sand in the sand box.

diva sig

6:07pm • #28
JUL
26
2007
316,875 Points 45 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Morgan - there's a lot of info in your post, and clearly it took you some time to put this together.  I don't understand all of it, so have bookmarked it so I can come back and re-read it a few more times.  I did see that Caleb left a comment for you, so AR is paying heed to this potential problem.  I use outbound links in most of my posts, but they're typically to authority type sites that have to do with the subject I'm writing about.  I do also periodically link to another article I've written on that particular subject, and I'm hoping that isn't going to fall into some of the bad stuff you wrote about above.

Thanks for the time it took for you to write this post, and for sharing this info with us.  Always learning here on AR!

Ann

10:28am • #29
128,355 Points 29 Featured Posts Hit Router

To my knowledge, Google only reads the first 120 links on any page and the rest are ignored.  So Google has a built-in method to deal with people who have 300 links on their page.

11:23am • #30
51 Featured Posts
Karen,  Morgan knows what he is talking about in this issue.  He is right that some of the things that have been going on here are dangerous for the community as a whole.  Morgan has witnessed this with other sites.
11:25am • #31
128,355 Points 29 Featured Posts Hit Router

Oh, I wasn't arguing!  I totally agree.  It just popped into my head about the 120 max links per page...  I think spammers are easily identified and spoiled by Google.  But that doesn't mean I disagreed with him.  But it seems like an easy fix for ActiveRain.

I betcha I could write some quick code to completely eliminate spammers from AR.  First, the cleanup:

We could query the DB and search for posts that have X-number of link code.  Or, wait, even better, if more than 10% of the words in any post are hyperlinked, the post is automatically flagged, removed, and delivered to a moderator who chooses whether or not to delete.

We should also up the number of minimum words to 100 for a blog post, then parse the post for links, before the SQL statement is executed to write it into the AR DB. 

Again, if the amount of text enclosed in <a href> tags is excessive (10%? 20%?), the write command never executes.  Or rather, it does execute the "write", but flags the post as possible spam and will need to be reviewed before posting.  Then just write the post into the DB with a yes/no spam field.  "Yes!"

That triggers an email to a mod.

Easy-peasy, lemon-squeazy.

12:15pm • #32
JUL
27
2007
3 Featured Posts

Just to clarify - I am certainly not saying that all outbound links are bad - in fact, most times (And most members) post outbound links to support their posts, and provide helpful further reference material to their  users (Which can sometimes be on their own sites which is totally acceptable) - the only issue is when someone engages in "excessive" outbound linking with the painfully obvious intention of doing nothing more than artificially inflating a users link popularity - these kinds of posts just by looking at them, can be easily identified as not intended to be helpful to the users. 

I am not sure about dealing with these issues on the database level, because there are always exceptions (I can envision a top 100 sites to submit your AR or REW RSS feeds to - post, with 100 links out to great resources meant to help the AR members) - in this case, the outbound links would be there for the benefit of the users and would be totally legit - I think it is more about education of the great members here, so that they can watch for what is (Right now) a very low volume of search engine spam - some of these people are here to spam, will get slapped on the wrist and do it again, and then would have to get escalated, but so many more of these people, are just those who lack education and understanding in regards to search engine spam, and are new to social networking, with a little help, and some really good guidelines and tutorials - the majority of these unintentional spammers can be converted into great and long standing members, so it is not just about dealing with the spam, its about dealing with it in such a way that minimizes the impact yet maximizes the end result for AR (The community) so we all benefit and can continue to use this great resource to it's full potential.

12:31pm • #33
139,868 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Morgan:

Well I had no idea! What I don't understand and maybe Caleb can explain to me - If A/R knows this is so dangerous and that it has been going on - why has no action been taken? What are they waiting for? Google to step in? And why has this post not been featured? So the rest of our community can be made aware of the danger.

Sandra

7:28pm • #34
JUL
29
2007
143,770 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Morgan,

Thanks for the post. This was very informative. I am glad to see Caleb chime in on this, as with every good good system, there are always those seeking to undermine the system and thereby compromise its integrity. No doubt the Rain Gods are fast at work to protect the community from these marauders. 

1:50am • #35
217,857 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Good post Morgan. I am new to blogging and this is good stuff, should be added in the welcome kit.

 

6:50am • #36
JUL
30
2007
3 Featured Posts

Why has it not been featured? Not sure, maybe because they don't want the title showing up on the homepage ;-) - Seriously though I have no idea.

Why have they done nothing? They have, they have a great team in place, that blasts spam when they see it, they have moderators, they have email verification on signup - all help control spam - but as I stated, the boys are not SE experts AND I imagine they have a ton more than just this issue to deal with in the day to day operation of AR, this is just one small (But very important) piece of the puzzle when it comes to running a community of this size. I am sure we will see some more spam related guidelines in the TOS in no time :) 

12:54am • #37
225,354 Points 41 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Morgan, I was "pushed" into your post by a comment made by James Boyer elsewhere.  While I may not agree with the push, the content of your post is important.  Thanks for bringing it up and I am glad to see that Caleb has chimed in twice already. 

I believe Active Rain will act to preserve the integrity of their investment.  Thanks for the heads up on this.

4:04am • #38
JUL
31
2007
169,565 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Your article helped somewhat but I am still not sure what spamming is exactly so having said that, I just hope I haven't done anything unknowingly and for certain unintentionally to spam.  I hope my fellow rainers will be kind enough to let me know if I have done this and and stress "be kind" because again, it's will definitely be out of pure innocence and sorry to say, ignorance.  But I am trying to read up on all I can about it so I am not guilty of it.
4:22pm • #39
Good article! We are not exactly sure what all the "technical stuff" is. The examples did help!! Thanks for sharing!!
10:15pm • #40
AUG
07
2007
5 Featured Posts
Morgan, wow, I'm impressed, bookmarked for future use!
11:59pm • #41
AUG
08
2007
677,360 Points 145 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

This is great information, Morgan. It helps clarify so much. We need more guidelines on what to do and not to do - so many of us are still so new to this.

Jeff

10:01am • #42
Thanks for giving me some context on how goolge negatively views excessive linking. I will read the Active Rain guidelines regarding linking. I see Caleb has put a link on this blog for further reference (linking).
1:59pm • #43
Thanks for giving me some context on how goggle negatively views excessive linking. I will read the Active Rain guidelines regarding linking. I see Caleb has put a link on this blog for further reference (linking).
2:00pm • #44

thanks for the lesson. Not only am I fairly new to all this and trying to understand the technicalities myself but I am also trying to encourage and teach my agents to get going. I have read some of your other posts and book-marked them and forwarded them for lessons and explanations. Thanks.

4:39pm • #45
111,290 Points 10 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I hate posts that link excessivley. Like I have time to check out all 20 links. Geez! Give me a couple high quality ones and I am good to go!
9:10pm • #46
AUG
09
2007
425,157 Points 47 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Morgan - Great information....everyone who is a member of active rain should be reading this. I have often wondered if this could be happening here. I was all too familiar with the google slap on Squidoo.
7:37am • #47
AUG
10
2007
243,643 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Morgan,

Excellent information about how a few can mess up a good thing for many. There always will be those who try to gain an unfair advantage of any system and if they are not controlled, they can easily ruin everything, including themselves. I trust AR will look into this and make the needed adjustments. Good post.

11:26pm • #48
AUG
11
2007
132,531 Points 46 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Morgan: This post rates a 5--and will likely have a long tail following.
2:28pm • #49
3 Featured Posts

Just an update, I have seen a lot of discussion and other posts from AR members (And staff) addressing this issue, and the response has been great! (Special thanks to Caleb) - It looks like a lot of members and staff have read this post and taken action, which was the point - we are all here to watch out for each other, help each other learn, and most of all protect this resource so that we can continue to benefit from it now and in the future. I think we will see even more formalized search engine guidelines in the near future.

Thanks everyone for your comments, ratings and thanks for just being great community members.  

 {Chokecherry} these captcha's on comments really crack me up sometimes lol 

3:35pm • #50

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Morgan Carey

Nanaimo, BC

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Address: 403 345 Wallace St, Nanaimo, BC, V9R 5B6

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