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With a salute to Jeff Turner, my personal choice for cameras wouldn't be the Kodak 705.  I agree with him on many points, and for a point and click wide angle, it's good.  I have 2 problems with it (and probably LOTS of problems if I disagree with Jeff....).

To understand the 2 problems, you need to understand my point of view.  I've used 35mm cameras for years.  Started with a Leica Rangefinder focus, moved into SLRs.  Used Canon almost exclusively.  Developed my own B&W, and color prints.  Every time I refer to a lens focal length, I need to figure it's 35mm equivalent.  It's a language I understand.  Focal lengths change on digital.  35mm film ALWAYS uses 35mm film.  Digital camera's have different recording media, with different sizes.  As the size changes, so does the focal length.  For the purposes of this posting, all focal lengths have been converted to 35mm camera equivalent.

The Kodak has a 23mm wide angle lens.  It's a fixed 23mm (according to Kodak).  At 23mm, destortion is quite visible.  It throws the room visually off.  You may have heard of "Fish Eye" effect.  It does have a 2nd lens that zooms, but it only goes down to 39mm.  As a photographer, this distortion bothers me.  I can see it in a photo and I think it (slightly) misrepresents the room.  My preference is a good 28mm wide angle.  In a 35mm camera, the 50mm lens is considered standard.  To see the difference, I've included photos of a 10' x 12' room:

50 mm view

35mm view

28mm view

I took these from a tripod.  Only changing my lens zoom (Canon Rebel Digital with 18 - 55mm lens, or 28 to 88mm equivalent).  Now look at the stacked photos:

Combined view  You can see that 28 will cover a 10 x 12 room very well.  While we sometimes take pictures of bathrooms (tho, I wonder about some I see), I believe a 28 mm gives good coverage, with minimal distortion.

Now my other problem.  Look at the photo above for shadows, and wash out.  By wash out I mean that the objects in front will be too bright.  Look at these 2 photos:

flash view

 

The Bounce Flash picture is done using a Canon Digital Rebel with a 550 EX flash.  The fully integrate, and become point and shoot.  When I use an external flash, I tilt the head up to 60 degrees.  The flash is pointing at the ceiling.  But the difference betreen the Left photo, and the Right photo using the small - on camera flash.  On the Left, the table is much more consistant in color.  I don't have the glare on the corner of the table.  The chairs are more true, and consistant in color.  The chairs have a very natural shadow as they are being lit from above - same with the computer stand.  On the Right - Heavy - dark shadow under table, around chairs on the wall.  Under the computer is very bright.  Not like one would view normally, the table color is much darker, and the wall paper appears much brighter - direct very whit light hitting it.

I will always use, and reccomend a camera with 28mm minimum wide angle, and prefer not to go much past that.  You will have to ask for the 35mm Camera equivalent to know this number.  I look for flashes with a hot shoe for an external flash.  My reccomendations (priced from Adorama, but you should shop around):

Nikon D40, Zooms to 27mm, has a hotshoe and built in flash - $524

Refurbished Rebel XT, Zooms to 28mm, has a hotshoe and built in flash - $469

Fuji S9100, Zooms from 28mm to 300mm (GOOD range), Hotshoe & builtin flash - $399

For those that want to zoom to 28mm, but don't want to mess with the flash, Canon SD800 is new is $299, refurbished is $265.  The Ricoh RS is $199.

And Jeff, please don't ban me from any further posts.... After all, I love The Real Estate Show VT's...

 

50 Comments on Which Camera, What Angle, and why?

Interesting!  You know much more about cameras than I do.  Thanks for posting.

07/24/2007 01:19 PM by Judi Barrett (Integrity Real Estate Services)


This is true but for the point and shoot i have to say the V705 is good. I bought one because Jeff suggested it and it does better pics than other cameras I have used.

 

07/24/2007 01:35 PM by T.U.P. Realty


Now don't go messing w/my head...just got my V705!  But seriously, no matter what you find, there will always be something more effective...it all depends on your budget, expertise, and specific needs as to what works for you.  As for me, I'm going with easy!  (Yes, this is classic post-purchase reinforcement behavior at it's finest!).  Thanks for posting...very interesting information!

07/24/2007 02:30 PM by Susan Smith, Rooms That Work (Rooms That Work)


Wouldn't a wide angle do best for indoor shoots?

07/24/2007 08:14 PM by Larry Wright (nwRealty.Com)


Greg - I think you have found your niche!  This is the perfect illustration for a wide angel lens.  I love the overlay shot.  Thank you for the great post.  It has been featured in the Photography group. 

07/24/2007 09:22 PM by Maureen Henry - Rockland Home Staging (www.rocklandhomestaging.com)


Greg - this is good info!  I was told (don't know if correctly!) that whatever the stated focal length on a digital SLR lens that you should double that (rule of thumb?) to get the 35mm SLR equivalent.  Not sure if that's accurate as I just recently got a digital SLR and am still trying to learn about these things.  Thanks for the post and the generous sharing of your knowledge.

07/24/2007 10:06 PM by Carol Smith, ReMax Preferred, REALTORĀ®, Toledo, OH (www.calltoledohome.com)


Very nice post - well thought out.  I enjoy taking interior shot with natural light using very slow shutter speeds (into the seconds).  I use a bounce or straight flash depending on the light and how much high I can drive my f-stop to keep the blue sky outside the windows...

A camera which I learned to shoot on and highly recommend for new photographers is the Sony DSC-F828.  It's readily available on Ebay and since it's a discontinued model the prices are coming down.  Quite a jack-of-all trades camera.  And it has a 28-200 manual zoom...

07/24/2007 11:24 PM by Jeff Geoghan MBA - Lancaster PA Real Estate Expert (Coldwell Banker Select Professionals)


Jeff - I'd love to see some photography blogs from you. 

07/25/2007 08:45 AM by Maureen Henry - Rockland Home Staging (www.rocklandhomestaging.com)


I agree, Jeff, where are your blogs.  I thought the open shutter would be a little advanced for many people here.  Based on your comments above, I too tried the bound, or open shutter before with daylight.  I now find it easier to use a tripod, and Layer the windows in using Photoshop CS2.

07/25/2007 11:31 AM by Greg Fox (Realty World Wichita)


Responding to everyone: 

The 705 is a better choice than most.  My comments were "I would prefer not".  Compared to lots of pics I see in the MLS, ANYTHING with a 705 would be miles ahead.  If you haven't purchased, I'm trying to give you other choices.

In terms of Focal length, there isn't a rule of thumb.  My SLR has a 1.6 factor, while the Nikon SLR has a 1.5 factor.  Point and shoots will vary greatly depending on recording media size.  Each mfg will provide those.

As for the Wide angle, anything less than the standard lens would be considered a "Wide Angle".  The standard being 50mm, so a 35mm lens is a wide angle, 28mm would be wider, 17mm wider still.

Just for a side thought, all my Canon digital lens fit my Canon 35mm film body.  So the 17mm lens on my film body would be a true 17mm, and very distorted - fish eyed.  On my Digital body, it is the equivalent of a 28mm lens.  Focal length has to be considered with the size of the recording media.

07/25/2007 11:41 AM by Greg Fox (Realty World Wichita)


I purchased the Nikon D40 for my wife. We now fight over it. I love it.

07/25/2007 01:23 PM by Scott


While I enjoy the Kodak v705, I sure wish the flash were more powerful.  I am still searching for a camera, within my teeny tiny budget that is idiot proof, wide angle, but a great flash.  I know, I know...dream on....

07/26/2007 08:07 PM by Denise_ Virginia Home Staging (Interior Concept Designs)


Denise, I saw that camera today, right next to the $100 Tablet PC with all the software....

07/26/2007 08:29 PM by Greg Fox (Realty World Wichita)


I know, I should post some stuff on the photo work that I do.  I have a separate business selling prints and am working on a photographic book of Lancaster County (to use as a closing gift, of course).  Since I focus on green real estate, I haven't really gone after photography subjects in my AR blog.  Maybe you've convinced me...

I'm not sure I'd recommend a DSLR to every realtor who needs better RE pictures - there's a bit to learn to get the most of them.  The D40 is neat because of it's great price, but the lenses won't work with the next tier of cameras from Nikon when one wants to move up.  I think an advanced superzoom would be a better all-around RE choice - IMHO.

07/26/2007 10:08 PM by Jeff Geoghan MBA - Lancaster PA Real Estate Expert (Coldwell Banker Select Professionals)


I read other reader's reviews and realtor blog comments and this convinced me to go ahead and buy. Shopped till I dropped online for the ‘best price' - ended up spending $200 w/shipping for a refurbished+ dock.

http://www.taxforeclosurecurrentevents.com

07/27/2007 02:57 AM by William quartz


Thanks for sharing.  I am bookmarking!

07/28/2007 03:41 PM by HOPE Lending LLC


I'm so glad you posted this.  I went into BestBuy to get the Kodak Easy Share because I thought it would be too tricky to learn the wide angle lens thing.  This explained a few of the questions I had.  Thank goodness BestBuy doesn't carry those duel-lens models anymore.  I think I am going to go ahead and buy the good one.

 

Lexa 

07/30/2007 01:12 AM by Lexa Montierth (Currently Looking)


I too love a good camera! I have about given them up except for personal use because of the convenience of the small size of the Kodak. With my other cameras it was easy to talk myself out of keeping the camera in the car so I spent most of my time making multiple trips. Now my pictures are a little "fishy" but I take more pictures with less double back time

07/30/2007 04:26 AM by Sandra Williams (Rancon Real Estate)


Very informative. I am planning on buying a new camera soon and will re-read this post a few more times. Thank you for the enlightenment.

 

07/30/2007 09:51 AM by Century 21 First Realty


Howdy Greg

Congrats on a very fine post. You photo are very good. Thank you for taking the time to make this post and puting the photots on also. I gave you a rating of 5 here.

Have a good one

08/01/2007 05:04 PM by Dale Baker, Home Inspector- in NH & VT (Baker Home Inspections and Consulting Service)


Hi Greg, Great topic! Something we all need to read more and understand better.  I just bought on Ebay the one Jeff recommends, the Kodak v570 digital camera (reconditioned) for less than $200.  I will let you all know how it works.

08/06/2007 06:33 AM by Janie Coffey, GRI - Miami Real Estate (Janie Coffey and Papillon Real Estate, LLC)


taken with a nikon d50 with the 12-24mm wide angle zoom lense

08/06/2007 02:36 PM by Matt Dunshie-Realtor (Keller Williams Integrity First Realty)


Hey guys, I just want to clear a few things up here that don't quite come across clearly or may be a bit misleading:

  • All lenses / focal lengths have distortion characteristics associated with them. They range from hardly noticable to horribly disfiguring. Most are undesirable but not all, some will actually 'improve' the photo. Don't even get me started on anamorphosis or proportion distortion.
  • Focal length is a matter of preferance and style which will be informed by experience and skill in photography. Real Estate imaging generaly favors wider lenses in most instances. Personally I favor 16-17mm via a full frame sensor. These images can be crystal clean (distortion wise) but it takes some experience to acheive this (good equipment helps also).
  • Fisheye distortion has nothing to do with focal length. Fisheye lenses exhibit curvelinear distortion because they are designed that way. This is a totally different animal the rectlinear distortion present in typical wide angle lenses.
  • Cameras don't take great pics, people do. ;)

Carry on. :)

-B

  

08/06/2007 09:31 PM by Bryce Mohan (Bryce Mohan Photography)


Hi Greg, 

I was almost sure I was going to get the Kodak v705.  I read tons of posts on its easy of use and saw pictures people had posted as examples.

Now you have gone and confused everything again ! ;)  I guess it is back to a little research again.  Thanks for the great information.  Regardless of which I choose, at least I will feel well informed.

08/10/2007 01:03 AM by Patrick Canavan - Orange County Real Estate Voice (Prudential California Realty)


Greg:  I appreciate your detailed post, and the time you've spent presenting this information to us.  Beyond that, I always appreciate the differing views in the responses.  I will bookmark this to come back for further research, as today the calendar only permitted me a quick scan. 

For now, my two cents is that the v705 really does the job.  I'm a stager, and Realtors end up using my pictures over their own most of the time.  Once, they chose mine over the professional photographers.

Because I'm a design and art (amateur, mind you) addict, I love the composition opportunities afforded by photography.  Just came back from 2 weeks driving through Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and about an acre of Utah.  My sister and daughter (travelling companions) nick named me "Click" because I downloaded between 250 and 600 shots per day.  [It's so stinkin' beautiful out there!]  For personal reasons, I think I'm headed for a digital SLR, and will enjoy reading everything you all have to share.

Thanks, and Cheers, from DC!

   Jaynee

08/21/2007 02:04 PM by Jaynee Acevedo, Capital Style Home Staging (Capital Style Home Staging)


Greg, This great information. I can see why you love this camera, but for those of us who are technically challenged or don't have the interest, a good professional photographer is the way to go. The bottom line is the quality of the photos. If you have the ability to come up with gorgeous pictures on your own (like you and Matt do) fine: if you don't, hire someone who does. 

08/21/2007 02:48 PM by Susan Peters - Seattle Realtor/Staging Specialist (Re/Max Mutual Realty)


Hi Greg, thank you for the great information.  It was very helpful seeing the overlay using the different lenses.  I was amazed with Matt's kitchen shot using the 12-24 mm wide angle.  I have the Canon PowerShot G5 bought as a package :-( with a couple of cheap lenses.  One is a Digital Pro High Definition 0.5x wide angle.  I've never used it and can't even remember what mm it's supposed to be.  Are you familiar with this lens and know the mm?  Could it produce anything similar to Matts 12-24mm?  If not, would you recommend buying a good lens (and if so) which one.  The objective being to shoot rooms like Matts kitchen.  It's been a couple weeks since the last post, hope you're still monitoring this thread.  If not, I'll email you.

09/09/2007 12:29 PM by Gail MacMillan Titusville/Brevard County FL Real Estate (Home Sweet Home Florida Realty, Inc.)


Anyone have anything to say about the newer Nikon D40X?

09/09/2007 01:18 PM by Adam Brett - Fullerton, California Realtor (RE/MAX NOC)


I took this with a Nikon D70 with a 18-55mm lens and bounce flash to showcase the cabinetry and large kitchen island.

Large Kitchen

This photo was taken with a Sony A100 with a 18-70mm lens and no flash.  Same kitchen, different angle.

Kitchen View 2

And a non-SLR digital shot taken with a Panasonic Lumix DX07:

Third Example

09/10/2007 01:57 PM by Crystal Freeman (Oregon Home 360)


I love the self stitching panoramic Kodak V series cameras.  I have yet to try to the newer v705 or newer but I have 3 of the v570's and they are wonderful for virtual tour wide panoramics.  Based on the photos above I have a feeling a bounce flash would help my interior photos.

09/11/2007 08:14 PM by Sam Miller (RE/MAX Stars Realty)


Crystal, great examples 

Adam, the d40x is a great camera. the d40 is also great. it will depend on what you are shooting primarily. if its real estate, you may not need the 'x' model. I am using a d50 which I purchased 2 yrs ago. it works great, I would strongly recommend the 12-24mm nikon lens ($1200approx) for real estate. read this site for expert reviews www.kenrockwell.com I will be upgrading to the d200 or 300 next year. they are way more camera than I need, but I have really gotten into photography since buying my d50. I use it almost everyday. its safe to say the d40 will be more camera than most need, and you can find them for under $500. sweet deal!

 I am leading a class this Tuesday focusing on the different cameras and their abilities. showing examples of a point and shoot, then my Nikon D50 with a 18-55mm lens, and also my 12-24 lens(amazing lens). showing how and when to use a bounce flash.

09/23/2007 12:01 AM by Matt Dunshie-Realtor (Keller Williams Integrity First Realty)


I am so jealous of your 12-24 lens ... that is one I still need to add to my arsenal!  Thanks for the props, Matt!

09/25/2007 06:57 PM by Crystal Freeman (Oregon Home 360)


Thanks so much for the practical advice on cameras and flashes - I am trying to decide on upgrading......

09/25/2007 11:25 PM by John Coley (Coley Real Estate)


This is great Greg,

I especially love the rectangles in one picture to compare...  very informative...

10/01/2007 03:30 PM by Mehmet Met Dilsiz (FND Photography)


Does the 550 flash have manual flash modes? If so, what level flash would you use in a room like the one in your photos?

10/05/2007 02:14 PM by Benjamin Clark - Exclusive BUYER'S AGENT - Salt Lake City, Utah (Homebuyer Representation, Inc.)


Hi Greg,

GREAT POST.  Although I have to agree with Bryce that it is the nut behind the viewfinder that makes the difference, good equipment helps.  I think that in the age of Internet marketing good photographs are ESSENTIAL.  Looking at the MLS it is obvious that many agents do no share that opinion, giving me a competitive advantage. 

I still have my OLD Canon AE-1 and my EOS 5, but my 20D has made things a lot easier.  It is true that some of the Canon lenses are interchangeable with the film camera bodies, however the EF S lenses are not.  I use my EF S 10-22mm almost exclusively for real estate work.  I like the WIDE shots that I get, but have to be very careful in dealing with the resulting distortion.  It can be good and it can be very bad.

With respect to the flash, my 550EX still does not always provide enough light, especially in a large room.  Photoshop is as essential as a lens.  CS2 is a great tool.  I just got CS3 but have not had time to play with it yet.  I recommend that people pick up at least an older version of Elements.  Elements 5 is the hot new version but you can get a copy of Elements 4 for less than $ 40 in the Internet.  That way you can lighten up dark rooms, correct most distortion and do many other things to improve your photos.  It is a lot less expensive than a good flash.

If every agent took the time and pride in their work that Matt Dunshie and Crystal Freeman did in the shots displayed above the MLS would be a more enjoyable place to visit than it is.

Good shooting. 

 

10/05/2007 03:23 PM by Mike West (Avalar Real Estate & Mortgage Network)


I haven't commented in a while.  This post has taken a real depth that I've been watching.  You guys are all GREAT.  In general, I agree with all the posts here, and the pictures have been great.  Each person added a lot, some could be a little confusing depending on the users skill level.  I'd like to make a couple of points:

When I referred to "Fish eye" effect, I was trying to find a visual that most people could identify with.  The curvature and distortion.  I agree that a real Fish eye is built to distort, but many wide angle lenses will distort or curve depending on lots of factors.

Be cautious when discussing focal lengths to describe "wide angle".  When I had a Mamiya 6X7 format camera, the "Average" focal length was 70mm.  That would be comparable to a 50mm lens for a 35mm camera.  The wide angle effect changes with many factors (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_length if you really want to try and understand the mechanics).  My main point to understanding how a "Wide Angle" lens relates to each camera, the most accepted standard is the 35mm equivalent.  When you compare one camera to another, please look for the 35mm equivalent to understand what the focal length will mean for your camera.

As for Flashes, most would do well to have a single flash, bouncing from the ceiling, on auto.  To do a good job, 2 flashes, bouncing off umbrella reflector would be nice.  For web size photo's, that would be overkill for most.  A simple bounce works fine.  In Manual mode, unless you have a flash light meter, I would bracket up and down several exposures to find the right combination.  The reason I would use manual, full power, bounced, to try and match outdoor light (difficult to do).  The easier way to match outdoor light for me, take 2 exposures, 1 for interior lighting, 1 for outdoor light.  Using Photoshop CS2, I layer the images with the Outdoor light filling the source, and the indoor light shot for interior.  In this way I get windows with grass/trees/scenery (instead of whiteout), and well lit interiors that match.

10/06/2007 09:49 AM by Greg Fox (Realty World Wichita)


I like Matt Dunshie's shot with the D50 and the 12-24 mm wide angle lens... no comments, just the photo and what it was taken with... nuff said.... a picture's worth a thousand dollars!

10/07/2007 12:39 AM by Lance Langenhoven (The Oscar Group, a Keller Wiliams team)


Greg...Very informative post.  Your example with the three photos really proved your point. 

Thank you,

Kathleen

03/19/2008 02:44 AM by Kathleen "Kate" Elim, LAKE ANNA, VA Real Estate (RE/MAX Lake & Country)


hmm, I've been considering the Canon SD870is, which is a point and shoot with wide angle lens... 

03/19/2008 11:36 AM by Laura Baptista (Access Real Estate Svcs.)


Laura, the Canon SD870IS is a great camera for real estate and the picutre quality is good enough that you can use it for family events.

03/19/2008 11:39 AM by Lee Jinks (Coldwell Banker La Mansion)


My quick take.  The SD807is has the same 35 MM equivalent lens (28 mm) as shown above in my examples  Lens is OK, so lighting becomes the issue.  No bounce flash ability limits how "soft" your lighting will be.   Next, the in camera flash has a 13 foot range (very typical for a hand held camera).  Overall, better than most pocket digitals for wide angle, normal lighting.  You'll get better pics than most Realtors, but if the room is longer than 13 feet, your photo will be "white out" close to you, and "black out" past 13 feet.

03/19/2008 12:07 PM by Greg Fox (Realty World Wichita)


Here's the deal.  Flash isn't an issue for point and shoot users.  If you want a perfectly light filled interior shot, hire a professional.  If you don't want to hire a professional, but you still want to take the best picture you can with a point and shoot camera, turn off the flash and use a tripod.

03/19/2008 02:24 PM by Lee Jinks (Coldwell Banker La Mansion)


Greg, I prefer to shoot at 10mm and capture a maximum amount of space.  Yes, you get distortion, but you also GET THE  PICTURE.

This was taken with Sigma 10-20 on Nikon D300

 

Staircase

03/28/2008 09:07 PM by Lazarus Realty


Lazarus, I know you know, but just for everyone else.  A 10mm lens on the D300 is a 15mm equivalent to 35mm film cameras.  Very wide and yes I like it wide too.  I can go as wide as 19mm and often wish I could go a little wider.  One of these days I'm going to sell enough to be able to step up with the big boys like Lazarus.

03/29/2008 08:27 AM by Lee Jinks (Coldwell Banker La Mansion)


Your post makes me want to break out my camera and experiment a little.

03/29/2008 11:07 AM by Find a Notary Public | needAnotary (QEC Internet Services)


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Real Estate Agent: Greg Fox (Realty World Wichita)
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